{"id":307178,"date":"2021-07-29T07:00:05","date_gmt":"2021-07-29T11:00:05","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/a-place-to-grieve\/"},"modified":"2025-05-13T17:33:36","modified_gmt":"2025-05-13T21:33:36","slug":"a-place-to-grieve","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/a-place-to-grieve\/","title":{"rendered":"A Place to Grieve"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The loss of a child can leave many parents feeling there&#8217;s nowhere to turn. Ron and Nan Deal, along with Brad and Jill Sullivan, share about the While We&#8217;re Waiting retreats, which minister to parents right where they are on their grief journey.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>The loss of a child can leave many parents feeling there&#8217;s nowhere to turn. Ron and Nan Deal, along with Brad and Jill Sullivan, share about the While We&#8217;re Waiting retreats, which minister to parents right where they are on their grief journey.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"audio","audio_file":"https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2021-07-29.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:32:20","filesize":"29.61M","filesize_raw":"31049814","date_recorded":"2021-07-29 07:00:05","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2847,2845,2879],"tags":[2343,5099,5096,6988,4125,6987],"podcast_series":[8461],"cwp_profile":[9723,3629,3300],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-307178","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-death-and-dying","category-loss-of-a-child-life-issues","category-loss-of-a-child","tag-grief","tag-grieving","tag-hope","tag-hope-in-jesus","tag-loss","tag-loss-of-loved-one","podcast_series-while-were-waiting","cwp_profile-brad-and-jill-sullivan","cwp_profile-nan-deal","cwp_profile-ron-deal","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/307178\/a-place-to-grieve","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/307178\/a-place-to-grieve","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"xEJbUgMgF0\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/a-place-to-grieve\/\">A Place to Grieve<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/a-place-to-grieve\/embed\/#?secret=xEJbUgMgF0\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;A Place to Grieve&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"xEJbUgMgF0\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2021-07-29.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2021-07-29.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> I would say probably the hardest thing in life to do is to go through a tragedy.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> But I think there is something worse\u2014even though I said it\u2019s the hardest\u2014[Laughter]\u2014it\u2019s even worse to go through a tragedy alone\/\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014or trauma alone.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014isolated. I mean it\u2019s <em>bad<\/em>, and it\u2019s dark; but if you\u2019ve got no one to walk with you, it\u2019s really the darkest.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I\u2019m Ann Wilson.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> And I\u2019m Dave Wilson, and you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com or on our FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> app.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> It\u2019s almost as if, when you are going through trauma and tragedy, you can\u2019t catch your breath. You can\u2019t take a step; and you don\u2019t even know how to, sometimes, take the next step. I know that we\u2019ve gone through some hard things. It helps so much when somebody comes alongside, puts their arm around you, and just encourages you to take another breath, and to help move your leg forward; because you feel so stuck.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; so we have back in the studio with us today, Ron and Nan Deal and Brad and Jill Sullivan, who have already told us their story about walking through the death of the Sullivan\u2019s daughter\/the Deal\u2019s son the same year. I didn\u2019t know it was within nine days of each other, which was heartbreaking to hear; and yet, there is more to this story that we are going to jump into today.<\/p>\n<p>Welcome back to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. I\u2019m glad you are here.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> Thank you.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> Thank you.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jill: <\/strong>Thank you.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> And if our listeners haven\u2019t heard the first half, they\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014I would really encourage you to go back and listen to their stories. It\u2019s gripping; it\u2019s heart wrenching; but it\u2019s important to know the next steps.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Ron is no stranger to FamilyLife. He is the director of Blended<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>\u2014the best ministry in the world for blended families. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> It is.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> I agree; thank you.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Of course, you agree; but I\u2019m saying that because I say that all the time.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> We do.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019ve said that to everybody. I mean, we were talking to somebody on the plane\u2014and they said they were blended\u2014we\u2019re like, \u201cDo you know Ron Deal?!\u201d They were like, \u201cYes.\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cOf course, you do,\u201d because you just help so many people in that area.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> How many books have you written, Ron?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> Number nine comes out later this fall; yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>Wow.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Nan, you are a kindergarten teacher.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> I am.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> And you\u2019re <em>amazing<\/em>; I have <em>loved<\/em> getting to know you.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> You are sweet.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> You\u2019re gifted; you\u2019re pretty spectacular, and you are the perfect person to walk with Ron. You guys are a great team.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> Thank you.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> Thank you.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> Thank you.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Brad is a superintendent of schools.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brad:<\/strong> Yes, I\u2019m in South Pike County School District in Murfreesboro, Arkansas.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> You guys have started a ministry.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brad:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Tell us about that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jill:<\/strong> Yes; the ministry is called While We\u2019re Waiting. It\u2019s just like you said: it\u2019s a ministry that seeks to come alongside parents that have lost children. It\u2019s a retreat-based ministry; we host retreats around the country that are specifically for parents who have lost children.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> And you and Nan met there; right?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> We did!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jill:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> We did.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Talk about that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> Well, after we moved here, and Ron took the job at FamilyLife, I was in a ladies Bible study with Mary Herndon. They all knew my story; I\u2019d shared about Connor. I was really in throes\u2014it was deep\u2014I was in hard spot at that point.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> How much time had passed since his death?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> Six years.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Let me stop right there. Six years, and you just said you\u2019re still in a hard spot.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> I was.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> There are some people, who are like, \u201cOh, come on!\u2014after six years?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> Oh, for sure.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> But you\u2019re still\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> I was <em>so<\/em> struggling.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> It\u2019s a marathon; it is not a simple journey. There are so many losses in life that you can relatively move through quickly. That\u2019s not true with the loss of a child. It\u2019s a <em>very<\/em> long journey, and that\u2019s why this ministry is so important.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> You\u2019re not struggling five\/six years later because of your lack of faith?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> No.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> No.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Right; I mean, a lot of people think, \u201cWell, if you just have more faith and you trusted God more, you would be through this by then.\u201d But you had <em>incredible<\/em> faith, and it\u2019s just hard.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; you\u2019re still grieving.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> So grieving\u2014and moving to a new place\u2014where I have to introduce myself for the first time and tell my story.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> Everybody wants to know: \u201cHow many children do you have?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> Yes; \u201cHow long have you been married? How many children do you have?\u201d I am picking out a house that doesn\u2019t have Connor in mind; I was still in a hard season.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> You probably don\u2019t even know what to say when they say, \u201cHow many children do you have?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> We do\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> What do you say?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> \u2014we say, \u201cWe have three.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> \u201cWe have three boys.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> Yet, you either get the stone nothing; or get \u201cOh, okay\u201d; or \u201cTell me more.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> What\u2019s the best thing to say?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> \u201cTell me more,\u201d\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s good.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> \u2014or \u201cI\u2019m so sorry.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes, yes; but don\u2019t ignore it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> Don\u2019t ignore the fact when somebody says, \u201cWell, our oldest child is doing this, our youngest is doing this, and middle son died when he was 12.\u201d You can\u2019t, at that point, just say <em>nothing<\/em>. I mean, my encouragement to everybody listening would be to say, \u201cI\u2019m so sorry\u201d; and if you have courage, say, \u201cTell me more about that.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s good advice.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> Just step into that space, and let that parent talk. That\u2019s what they would <em>love<\/em> to do.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes, that\u2019s what I was going to say. You\u2019re saying, \u201cParents, who have lost a child, would love to talk about that child.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> Absolutely; absolutely, they want to talk about it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> Say their name, text their name\u2014remember them.<\/p>\n<p>Going back to the Bible study, Mary was pretty attentive; but one day, she showed up on my door step. A very dear friend of hers had lost her son, Jeffrey, in a tragic accident. Mary said, \u201cI need you to help me help Jeanie.\u201d I said, \u201cMary, sure I will help you.\u201d I was helping Mary help Jeanie; but lo and behold, Jeanie really needed <em>me<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p>Jeanie and I got connected, and we started texting; we started talking. We met a couple of times. Then she called me and said, \u201cHey, I\u2019m coming to Little Rock, and I\u2019m going to a retreat in Hot Springs. It\u2019s a moms\u2019 weekend at this retreat center for moms that have lost children. Would you come with me?\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cWell, can I?\u201d She\u2019s like, \u201cSure!\u201d We went, and that\u2019s where I met Jill. That\u2019s where we had a <em>wonderful<\/em> weekend at a While We\u2019re Waiting mom\u2019s retreat; it was amazing.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> I do want to add: While We\u2019re Waiting also has small groups that meet\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jill:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> \u2014now throughout the country. It\u2019s spreading like wildfire, because there is such a great need. There are parents everywhere who have lost a child and just didn\u2019t know where to go\/what to do with themselves. The retreats happen in various places now, also around the country, that people can go to; and then there are small groups that people can be a part of. Nan and I are actually leading a virtual group that includes some people from across the world. It\u2019s just a place for people to go and be together.<\/p>\n<p>The beautiful thing about this ministry is that all of it is free. The retreats and everything is free. Generous donors come alongside and make it possible for people to get the help that they need.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> This ministry ministers to us as parents: they minister to the dads, the moms, the couples. It is an environment where you feel loved on\/comforted. You are fed some <em>amazing<\/em> food; the rooms are beautiful; the chairs are comfy. You just feel like you go walk into a warm, wonderful hug; but the bonus is that God is at the center of it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> How did this idea come? I\u2019m guessing it didn\u2019t happen within a month of Hannah\u2019s death. You had to walk, and grieve, and journey. Give us the story of: \u201cWhere did this originate?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jill:<\/strong> When Hannah was in hospice, she spent the last few days of her life in a hospice center in Little Rock. You know, when you are in a situation like that, everybody comes; and they bring you food; and they bring you gift cards; and they bring you books and things like that\u2014lots of books. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> Yes\u2014[Laughter]\u2014on grieving.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jill:<\/strong> \u2014on grief and loss and all of these different things. By the time we got home after she went to heaven, I had a stack of books this tall. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> And people mean well.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jill:<\/strong> Oh, yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> They just don\u2019t know what to do.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jill:<\/strong> It\u2019s wonderful; but one of the books that was brought to us there at the hospice center was a book called <em>Holding On to Hope<\/em> by Nancy Guthrie. It was exactly what I needed to be reading; because those of you who are familiar with Nancy\u2019s story, you know that she had two babies that were born with Zellweger Syndrome, which is a terminal condition.<\/p>\n<p>Our daughter was a very different situation: she was 16 when she was diagnosed, but it was a terminal condition. She talks a lot in her books about the sovereignty of God and what do you do with it when your child is diagnosed with something terminal, and you pray for healing. You know that God <em>can<\/em> heal and sometimes does heal. Yet, He does not choose to heal <em>your<\/em> child. Those were the kinds of questions that we had been grappling with for a year while Hannah battled this cancer.<\/p>\n<p>I read that book; it was so, so beneficial for me. I got on her website; and I learned that she and her husband host retreats for bereaved parents in Nashville, Tennessee. We signed up and went, and it was a <em>wonderful<\/em> experience. There were people there from 11 different states and Canada, and our stories were all very different. Yet, the bond between parents, who have lost children, is strong; and it is immediate.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jill:<\/strong> We bonded with those folks. Before we even went to that retreat, we knew that God had a call on our lives. We knew that we did not want to waste the storm that Hannah prayed for, and we knew that we wanted to use this in some way. While we were there, it was just like, \u201cThis is something we would love to recreate this concept of a retreat for bereaved parents and bring it back home to Arkansas.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> The secret is community and sharing with people, who have a similar grief. It\u2019s that 2 Corinthians passage, where comforting people with the comfort we\u2019ve been given from God. You are just paying it forward\u2014you\u2019re just sharing it among others\u2014and there is a sense that, somehow in that sharing, that you\u2019re grief somehow gets smaller. It doesn\u2019t ever go away\u2014the intensity comes and goes over the seasons of life; it\u2019s always with you; your child is not here\u2014but we\u2019re holding on with hope for that day when we get to be with them again. Somehow, it helps!<\/p>\n<p>I\u2019m thinking that it needs to be said: \u201cNobody fixes our grief.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jill:<\/strong> No.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> Nobody in the While We\u2019re Waiting ministry tries to fix anybody else\u2019s grief.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jill:<\/strong> No.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Nan, you had talked earlier about protecting your garden of grief.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> What does that mean?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> Well, you have this garden with your child in it: and their memories, and their name, and everything that is about <em>them<\/em>. When you lose a child\u2014and you alluded to this earlier: \u201cI\u2019m six years in, and I\u2019m still struggling! What\u2019s wrong with her?\u201d \u201cSix months\/a year after that first year, you all should be moving on,\u201d\u2014you\u2019re not moving on; it\u2019s just you carry them throughout your whole life.<\/p>\n<p>It\u2019s like your other children; I mean, I have a son in Texas right now. I\u2019ve thought about him today. He\u2019s not in front of me, but I\u2019ve thought all about him today.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> He is in your garden.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> He is.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> He is.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> Absolutely.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> Connor is not here; there is not a day that goes by that I don\u2019t think about him.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jill:<\/strong> Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> It\u2019s a garden that a lot of people want to trod on; or they don\u2019t want to come in, because it\u2019s scares them. You\u2019ve got lots of friends\/family that don\u2019t want to have <em>anything<\/em> to do with it. Even, you go 12 years in, and they don\u2019t want anything to do with it; so you\u2019re protecting that garden.<\/p>\n<p>When you\u2019re in a group of people, who have lost children, and you cry, they get it. When you laugh, they get it. They get that they\u2019re laughing, but they are still not over the loss of their child.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jill:<\/strong> Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> Other people\u2014you start laughing\u2014and you are, in your mind, thinking, \u201cThey think I\u2019m over this, when I\u2019m really not over this.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> So: \u201cDo I laugh in front of them?\u201d \u201cDo I not?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jill:<\/strong> Yes; absolutely.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> Am I right?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jill:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> It\u2019s a <em>hard<\/em> rollercoaster of emotions. You\u2019re the one who has to protect them and regulate them, because nobody else can help you with them.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> Nan, that\u2019s the thing I want to jump off of\u2014what Nan just said is\u2014because in our virtual group that met just a couple of weeks ago, we found ourselves talking with the parents about the importance of guarding and protecting your garden. I hate to say it; but as grieving parents, we have to just accept the fact that it\u2019s up to us to try and nurture the right relationships that will help us grieve. There are certain people, who are advantageous to your grief journey; and there are other people, who are really not helpful.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> You have to be very careful about what you share with whom. That made me mad when I first discovered that, as a grieving dad, because I thought everybody else should be taking care of me; but the reality is I have to figure out: \u201cWho are the best people?\u201d \u201cWhat are the best situations?\u201d \u201cWho do I share with?\u201d \u201cWho do I not share with?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>When you finally get a place like a While We\u2019re Waiting group, where you are completely free\/you can let your hair down\u2014I mean, think about what Nan just said, \u201cI\u2019m deciding whether or not to laugh in front of you, because I don\u2019t want you to think that I\u2019m over my son when I\u2019m not over my son,\u201d \u2014that\u2019s way too much <em>work<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jill:<\/strong> Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> I need to pick the place, where I don\u2019t have to <em>think<\/em> about that. I can just be real with whatever is there.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> It\u2019s such a different language; and when you find somebody, who is speaking that same language, you just want to be with them.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jill:<\/strong> Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> And you feel like you are not going crazy. I mean, we had the 40 books that came. But man, when I could talk to another mom\u2014and she was a little bit ahead of me; and she would say, \u201cYou\u2019re right where you need to be. I did the exact same thing,\u201d\u2014I just felt like, \u201cOkay, I think I can breathe now. I think I <em>can<\/em> do this. I know I <em>don\u2019t<\/em> want to do this; but okay, maybe, I can make it.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jill:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> What a\/I mean, what a gift from God this is; because as you\u2019ve just shared, it\u2019s like: \u201cYou know what we\u2019re going through\u201d; and you can walk in a place and know, \u201cI\u2019m okay here.\u201d Like some people are ahead of you; you can be ahead of others. It\u2019s just what a beautiful gift; because we started, saying, \u201cThe worst thing to do is go through a tragedy alone.\u201d You were providing a way for community to happen and heal people. Do you have stories of that?\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brad:<\/strong> Oh, yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> Yes; I do.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014people really seeing God meet them because of what you\u2019ve offered?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> We started doing a support group. Lo and behold, this woman came from the Philippines; and she is six months in\/seven months in.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> This is a virtual group.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> Then, she stopped coming. I knew why; I knew exactly why. I sensed in her where I was that first seven months\u2014in the closet, curled up in the fetal position\u2014barely making it\/trying to make it for my other kids.<\/p>\n<p>I messaged her one day on Facebook<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>. I said, \u201cI know you can\u2019t come to the group, but will you talk to me?\u201d Because of our connection, now, I\u2019m zooming with her every other Saturday from the Philippines. I know\/I messengered her this week: \u201cI know you are barely holding on, but I\u2019m praying for you; and God loves you.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>She messengered back: \u201cThat was the only hope I had today; thank you.\u201d It\u2019s because I\u2019ve been there\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jill:<\/strong> Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> \u2014that I could minister; and because I have some legs underneath this now, that I can do it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jill:<\/strong> Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> But it\u2019s through this ministry that I met her.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jill:<\/strong> Yes; yes. You know, every other social situation you are in, as a bereaved parent, you have a filter on everything you say and even everything you see; because everything comes through that lens of child loss. When you walk into one of our retreats, that all goes away\u2014the filter goes away; the mask goes away\u2014you can say anything\/share anything without fear of judgment, knowing that everybody else in there is going to say, \u201cOh! Me too!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jill:<\/strong> \u201cOh, I\u2019ve felt that same way.\u201d Child loss is not a one-time event. It\u2019s not over when your child dies. Your child is your future; so everything that happens from that point on is another loss. When our children didn\u2019t get to graduate from high school\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> Oh man!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jill:<\/strong> \u2014when they didn\u2019t get to go to prom, when they didn\u2019t get to start college, when they don\u2019t get to get married\u2014yet, their siblings do.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> They weren\u2019t at their brother\u2019s wedding\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jill:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> \u2014the way you wanted them to be.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jill:<\/strong> Exactly; exactly. It\u2019s an <em>ongoing<\/em> loss. It doesn\u2019t just end.<\/p>\n<p>You know, when you lose a parent\u2014when you lose somebody that\u2019s an expected loss\u2014that\u2019s just kind of the end; but because you\u2019ve lost your future when you lose a child, that\u2019s what makes it an <em>ongoing<\/em> loss; so there is something to grieve\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brad:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jill:<\/strong> \u2014always something to grieve.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> Always.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> I know you know\u2014[I], as a pastor, doing many, many funerals, and some for the loss of a child\u2014you want to be able to look at that parent and say, \u201cI have something for you.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jill:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> So how does somebody get ahold of this ministry? How do we send people to you?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jill:<\/strong> We have a website, and the website is WhileWereWaiting.org. Of course, no apostrophe; so it\u2019s WhileWereWaiting.org. We also have a pretty large Facebook presence. We have a public Facebook page that\u2019s just called While We\u2019re Waiting.<\/p>\n<p>If you are bereaved parent, though, we have a page called While We\u2019re Waiting Support for Bereaved Parents. If you have lost a child, you can request to join that page. It is a private page, and you have to answer some screening questions in order to be allowed in. It is a <em>wonderful<\/em> community\u2014that page\u2014there are a little over 6,000 people on it at this point. It is a clearly faith-based Facebook group. I get on there every day and post something\u2014a quote, a Scripture, something to encourage\u2014it\u2019s been a safe place for bereaved parents to gather.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> We\u2019ll put a link to that\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jill:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014on FamilyLife.com as well. I know there is a mom or dad listening right now\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brad:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014right now that maybe he is afraid. You know, there is that fear. This is the day you have to click that link; this is a step toward healing.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> There is somebody listening, who has a friend,\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> \u2014or a family member, who has lost a child. You\u2019ve desperately wanted to help them. You should remain in their life and ask them, \u201cHow are you doing today? Tell me about your son,\u201d\u2014and say their child\u2019s name and enter into that space as best you can\u2014but it\u2019s <em>great<\/em> to know you can tell them about this ministry, and they can go to a different level in their grief journey.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> Another support that you have is your new podcast.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jill:<\/strong> It\u2019s called <em>While We\u2019re Waiting: Hope After Child Loss<\/em>. It\u2019s something we started really kind of in response to COVID, because all of our retreats were shut down for several months. We did a few Facebook live things\u2014it\u2019s interviews and other things\u2014so it\u2019s\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> You know\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> \u2014great topics.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> \u2014I think one of the questions parents are asking themselves is: \u201cAm I crazy?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> I know Brad, Jill\u2014I know you guys have heard that a <em>thousand<\/em> times: \u201cAm I crazy? Is it just me? I really\u2014to think this way\u2014is it\/it can\u2019t be right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jill:<\/strong> Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> \u201cAm I not being faithful enough?\u201d\u2014like all of those shaming, guilting, self-condemning sorts of things we do, as Christians, when we\u2019re dealing with hard things. It\u2019s so relieving to hear somebody say, \u201cYes, that\u2019s normal.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jill:<\/strong> Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> \u201cYes, that\u2019s normal.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brad:<\/strong> \u201cYou\u2019re not crazy.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> \u201cYou\u2019re not crazy.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes, you know\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> \u201cYou\u2019re in the right place.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> We started saying, \u201cIf you go through this alone, you can have those questions; because you don\u2019t know the answer.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brad:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> If you go through this in community, you go, \u201cOh, this is what God made me for. I have to be a part of this. It\u2019s the only way I\u2019m going to make it.\u201d So way to go! Thanks.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes, thank you for sharing the story of Hannah and Connor. I look at\/man, you guys are really using their lives to help other people.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> Thank you.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> Thank you.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> Christian community is so powerful, so important, so needed when we are walking through difficult circumstances. The Bible tells us we are to weep with those who weep; we are to encourage the faint-hearted and help the weak. That\u2019s what has been modeled for us by Brad and Jill Sullivan, Ron and Nan Deal as they\u2019ve been sharing their story\/what they are offering to others\u2014Brad and Jill are doing retreats\u2014both one-day and weekend retreats for moms, dads, for couples together. We\u2019ve got a link on our website, at FamilyLifeToday.com, where you can find out more about these getaways that the Sullivans are offering. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com for more information.<\/p>\n<p>You can also get a copy of a book that Levi Lusko has written. The Luskos went through the loss of a child; we shared their story last month on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Levi has written about it in a book called <em>Through the Eyes of a Lion: Facing Impossible Pain, Finding Incredible Power<\/em>. You can get a copy of that book for yourself\u2014or if you know someone who is grieving, maybe, you want to reach out to them and come alongside them to provide encouragement, and support, and help\u2014get them a copy of Levi Lusko\u2019s book, <em>Through the Eyes of a Lion<\/em>. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com to order it or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to get your copy. Again, the website is FamilyLifeToday.com. Our number is 1-800-358-6329; that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d You can order your copy of Levi Lusko\u2019s book, <em>Through the Eyes of a Lion<\/em>, when you get in touch with us.<\/p>\n<p>I want to take just a minute and say, \u201cThank you,\u201d to those of you who have, in the past, partnered with us to help make programs like today\u2019s program possible. I wish you were here to read the notes that we get\/the thank-yous we receive from listeners, who tell us how God uses programs like this so powerfully in their own lives. Really, their thanks belong to you; because you\u2019ve made what we do, here, at <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> possible every time you make a donation.<\/p>\n<p><em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is listener-supported. Without your donations\u2014this radio program, this podcast, our events, our resources\u2014none of that would be possible if it weren\u2019t for people, like you, who believe that strong marriages and strong families are foundational to what we are all about as believers in Christ. So thank you for your support.<\/p>\n<p>If you are able to make a donation today, we\u2019d love to send you, as a thank-you gift, a copy of Wendy Speake\u2019s book, <em>The 40-Day Social Media Fast<\/em>. I know some of you are thinking, \u201cI don\u2019t think I want to take a 40-day social media fast.\u201d Well, Wendy\u2019s book, not only provides you with the rationale of why that is a good idea, but it gives you guidance. Wendy becomes your companion as you go through 40 days of detoxifying\/cleansing from what can sometimes build up on social media.<\/p>\n<p>Again, Wendy Speake\u2019s, <em>The 40-Day Social Media Fast,<\/em> is our gift to you when you make a donation today. Donate online at FamilyLifeToday.com, or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to donate. Again, on behalf of those who benefit from all that we do here at FamilyLife, thank you for partnering with us.<\/p>\n<p>We hope you can join us, again, tomorrow when we\u2019re going to hear things we ought not say and, maybe, the right things to say to parents who are grieving the loss of a child. Ron and Nan Deal will be back with Brad and Jill Sullivan. I hope you can be back with us as well.<\/p>\n<p>On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you tomorrow for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry.<\/p>\n<p>Helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.<\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>We are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?<\/p>\n<p>Copyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2021 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a><\/p>\n<p>1<\/p>\n"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:32:20"],"show_notes":["<ul>\n<li>Find resources from this podcast at <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/radio-resources\/\">shop.familylife.com<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/past-radio-resources\/\">See resources from our past podcasts.<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Find more content and resources on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/app\/\">FamilyLife's app<\/a>!<\/li>\n<li>Help others find FamilyLife. 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loss of a child can leave many parents feeling there's nowhere to turn. Ron and Nan Deal, along with Brad and Jill Sullivan, share about the While We're Waiting retreats, which minister to parents right where they are on their grief journey.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"<ul>\n<li>Find resources from this podcast at <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/radio-resources\/\">shop.familylife.com<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/past-radio-resources\/\">See resources from our past podcasts.<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Find more content and resources on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/app\/\">FamilyLife's app<\/a>!<\/li>\n<li>Help others find FamilyLife. Leave a review on <a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303\">Apple Podcast<\/a> or <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm?si=d6dfa8d2415f4750\">Spotify<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Check out all the FamilyLife's podcasts on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/flministries\/familylife-podcast-network\/\">FamilyLife Podcast Network<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2021-07-29.pdf","transcript_content":"<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> I would say probably the hardest thing in life to do is to go through a tragedy.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> But I think there is something worse\u2014even though I said it\u2019s the hardest\u2014[Laughter]\u2014it\u2019s even worse to go through a tragedy alone\/\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014or trauma alone.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014isolated. I mean it\u2019s <em>bad<\/em>, and it\u2019s dark; but if you\u2019ve got no one to walk with you, it\u2019s really the darkest.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I\u2019m Ann Wilson.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> And I\u2019m Dave Wilson, and you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com or on our FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> app.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> It\u2019s almost as if, when you are going through trauma and tragedy, you can\u2019t catch your breath. You can\u2019t take a step; and you don\u2019t even know how to, sometimes, take the next step. I know that we\u2019ve gone through some hard things. It helps so much when somebody comes alongside, puts their arm around you, and just encourages you to take another breath, and to help move your leg forward; because you feel so stuck.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; so we have back in the studio with us today, Ron and Nan Deal and Brad and Jill Sullivan, who have already told us their story about walking through the death of the Sullivan\u2019s daughter\/the Deal\u2019s son the same year. I didn\u2019t know it was within nine days of each other, which was heartbreaking to hear; and yet, there is more to this story that we are going to jump into today.<\/p>\n<p>Welcome back to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. I\u2019m glad you are here.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> Thank you.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> Thank you.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jill: <\/strong>Thank you.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> And if our listeners haven\u2019t heard the first half, they\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014I would really encourage you to go back and listen to their stories. It\u2019s gripping; it\u2019s heart wrenching; but it\u2019s important to know the next steps.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Ron is no stranger to FamilyLife. He is the director of Blended<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>\u2014the best ministry in the world for blended families. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> It is.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> I agree; thank you.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Of course, you agree; but I\u2019m saying that because I say that all the time.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> We do.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019ve said that to everybody. I mean, we were talking to somebody on the plane\u2014and they said they were blended\u2014we\u2019re like, \u201cDo you know Ron Deal?!\u201d They were like, \u201cYes.\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cOf course, you do,\u201d because you just help so many people in that area.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> How many books have you written, Ron?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> Number nine comes out later this fall; yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>Wow.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Nan, you are a kindergarten teacher.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> I am.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> And you\u2019re <em>amazing<\/em>; I have <em>loved<\/em> getting to know you.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> You are sweet.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> You\u2019re gifted; you\u2019re pretty spectacular, and you are the perfect person to walk with Ron. You guys are a great team.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> Thank you.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> Thank you.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> Thank you.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Brad is a superintendent of schools.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brad:<\/strong> Yes, I\u2019m in South Pike County School District in Murfreesboro, Arkansas.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> You guys have started a ministry.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brad:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Tell us about that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jill:<\/strong> Yes; the ministry is called While We\u2019re Waiting. It\u2019s just like you said: it\u2019s a ministry that seeks to come alongside parents that have lost children. It\u2019s a retreat-based ministry; we host retreats around the country that are specifically for parents who have lost children.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> And you and Nan met there; right?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> We did!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jill:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> We did.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Talk about that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> Well, after we moved here, and Ron took the job at FamilyLife, I was in a ladies Bible study with Mary Herndon. They all knew my story; I\u2019d shared about Connor. I was really in throes\u2014it was deep\u2014I was in hard spot at that point.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> How much time had passed since his death?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> Six years.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Let me stop right there. Six years, and you just said you\u2019re still in a hard spot.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> I was.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> There are some people, who are like, \u201cOh, come on!\u2014after six years?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> Oh, for sure.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> But you\u2019re still\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> I was <em>so<\/em> struggling.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> It\u2019s a marathon; it is not a simple journey. There are so many losses in life that you can relatively move through quickly. That\u2019s not true with the loss of a child. It\u2019s a <em>very<\/em> long journey, and that\u2019s why this ministry is so important.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> You\u2019re not struggling five\/six years later because of your lack of faith?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> No.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> No.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Right; I mean, a lot of people think, \u201cWell, if you just have more faith and you trusted God more, you would be through this by then.\u201d But you had <em>incredible<\/em> faith, and it\u2019s just hard.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; you\u2019re still grieving.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> So grieving\u2014and moving to a new place\u2014where I have to introduce myself for the first time and tell my story.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> Everybody wants to know: \u201cHow many children do you have?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> Yes; \u201cHow long have you been married? How many children do you have?\u201d I am picking out a house that doesn\u2019t have Connor in mind; I was still in a hard season.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> You probably don\u2019t even know what to say when they say, \u201cHow many children do you have?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> We do\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> What do you say?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> \u2014we say, \u201cWe have three.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> \u201cWe have three boys.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> Yet, you either get the stone nothing; or get \u201cOh, okay\u201d; or \u201cTell me more.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> What\u2019s the best thing to say?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> \u201cTell me more,\u201d\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s good.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> \u2014or \u201cI\u2019m so sorry.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes, yes; but don\u2019t ignore it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> Don\u2019t ignore the fact when somebody says, \u201cWell, our oldest child is doing this, our youngest is doing this, and middle son died when he was 12.\u201d You can\u2019t, at that point, just say <em>nothing<\/em>. I mean, my encouragement to everybody listening would be to say, \u201cI\u2019m so sorry\u201d; and if you have courage, say, \u201cTell me more about that.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s good advice.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> Just step into that space, and let that parent talk. That\u2019s what they would <em>love<\/em> to do.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes, that\u2019s what I was going to say. You\u2019re saying, \u201cParents, who have lost a child, would love to talk about that child.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> Absolutely; absolutely, they want to talk about it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> Say their name, text their name\u2014remember them.<\/p>\n<p>Going back to the Bible study, Mary was pretty attentive; but one day, she showed up on my door step. A very dear friend of hers had lost her son, Jeffrey, in a tragic accident. Mary said, \u201cI need you to help me help Jeanie.\u201d I said, \u201cMary, sure I will help you.\u201d I was helping Mary help Jeanie; but lo and behold, Jeanie really needed <em>me<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p>Jeanie and I got connected, and we started texting; we started talking. We met a couple of times. Then she called me and said, \u201cHey, I\u2019m coming to Little Rock, and I\u2019m going to a retreat in Hot Springs. It\u2019s a moms\u2019 weekend at this retreat center for moms that have lost children. Would you come with me?\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cWell, can I?\u201d She\u2019s like, \u201cSure!\u201d We went, and that\u2019s where I met Jill. That\u2019s where we had a <em>wonderful<\/em> weekend at a While We\u2019re Waiting mom\u2019s retreat; it was amazing.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> I do want to add: While We\u2019re Waiting also has small groups that meet\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jill:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> \u2014now throughout the country. It\u2019s spreading like wildfire, because there is such a great need. There are parents everywhere who have lost a child and just didn\u2019t know where to go\/what to do with themselves. The retreats happen in various places now, also around the country, that people can go to; and then there are small groups that people can be a part of. Nan and I are actually leading a virtual group that includes some people from across the world. It\u2019s just a place for people to go and be together.<\/p>\n<p>The beautiful thing about this ministry is that all of it is free. The retreats and everything is free. Generous donors come alongside and make it possible for people to get the help that they need.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> This ministry ministers to us as parents: they minister to the dads, the moms, the couples. It is an environment where you feel loved on\/comforted. You are fed some <em>amazing<\/em> food; the rooms are beautiful; the chairs are comfy. You just feel like you go walk into a warm, wonderful hug; but the bonus is that God is at the center of it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> How did this idea come? I\u2019m guessing it didn\u2019t happen within a month of Hannah\u2019s death. You had to walk, and grieve, and journey. Give us the story of: \u201cWhere did this originate?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jill:<\/strong> When Hannah was in hospice, she spent the last few days of her life in a hospice center in Little Rock. You know, when you are in a situation like that, everybody comes; and they bring you food; and they bring you gift cards; and they bring you books and things like that\u2014lots of books. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> Yes\u2014[Laughter]\u2014on grieving.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jill:<\/strong> \u2014on grief and loss and all of these different things. By the time we got home after she went to heaven, I had a stack of books this tall. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> And people mean well.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jill:<\/strong> Oh, yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> They just don\u2019t know what to do.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jill:<\/strong> It\u2019s wonderful; but one of the books that was brought to us there at the hospice center was a book called <em>Holding On to Hope<\/em> by Nancy Guthrie. It was exactly what I needed to be reading; because those of you who are familiar with Nancy\u2019s story, you know that she had two babies that were born with Zellweger Syndrome, which is a terminal condition.<\/p>\n<p>Our daughter was a very different situation: she was 16 when she was diagnosed, but it was a terminal condition. She talks a lot in her books about the sovereignty of God and what do you do with it when your child is diagnosed with something terminal, and you pray for healing. You know that God <em>can<\/em> heal and sometimes does heal. Yet, He does not choose to heal <em>your<\/em> child. Those were the kinds of questions that we had been grappling with for a year while Hannah battled this cancer.<\/p>\n<p>I read that book; it was so, so beneficial for me. I got on her website; and I learned that she and her husband host retreats for bereaved parents in Nashville, Tennessee. We signed up and went, and it was a <em>wonderful<\/em> experience. There were people there from 11 different states and Canada, and our stories were all very different. Yet, the bond between parents, who have lost children, is strong; and it is immediate.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jill:<\/strong> We bonded with those folks. Before we even went to that retreat, we knew that God had a call on our lives. We knew that we did not want to waste the storm that Hannah prayed for, and we knew that we wanted to use this in some way. While we were there, it was just like, \u201cThis is something we would love to recreate this concept of a retreat for bereaved parents and bring it back home to Arkansas.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> The secret is community and sharing with people, who have a similar grief. It\u2019s that 2 Corinthians passage, where comforting people with the comfort we\u2019ve been given from God. You are just paying it forward\u2014you\u2019re just sharing it among others\u2014and there is a sense that, somehow in that sharing, that you\u2019re grief somehow gets smaller. It doesn\u2019t ever go away\u2014the intensity comes and goes over the seasons of life; it\u2019s always with you; your child is not here\u2014but we\u2019re holding on with hope for that day when we get to be with them again. Somehow, it helps!<\/p>\n<p>I\u2019m thinking that it needs to be said: \u201cNobody fixes our grief.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jill:<\/strong> No.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> Nobody in the While We\u2019re Waiting ministry tries to fix anybody else\u2019s grief.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jill:<\/strong> No.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Nan, you had talked earlier about protecting your garden of grief.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> What does that mean?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> Well, you have this garden with your child in it: and their memories, and their name, and everything that is about <em>them<\/em>. When you lose a child\u2014and you alluded to this earlier: \u201cI\u2019m six years in, and I\u2019m still struggling! What\u2019s wrong with her?\u201d \u201cSix months\/a year after that first year, you all should be moving on,\u201d\u2014you\u2019re not moving on; it\u2019s just you carry them throughout your whole life.<\/p>\n<p>It\u2019s like your other children; I mean, I have a son in Texas right now. I\u2019ve thought about him today. He\u2019s not in front of me, but I\u2019ve thought all about him today.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> He is in your garden.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> He is.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> He is.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> Absolutely.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> Connor is not here; there is not a day that goes by that I don\u2019t think about him.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jill:<\/strong> Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> It\u2019s a garden that a lot of people want to trod on; or they don\u2019t want to come in, because it\u2019s scares them. You\u2019ve got lots of friends\/family that don\u2019t want to have <em>anything<\/em> to do with it. Even, you go 12 years in, and they don\u2019t want anything to do with it; so you\u2019re protecting that garden.<\/p>\n<p>When you\u2019re in a group of people, who have lost children, and you cry, they get it. When you laugh, they get it. They get that they\u2019re laughing, but they are still not over the loss of their child.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jill:<\/strong> Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> Other people\u2014you start laughing\u2014and you are, in your mind, thinking, \u201cThey think I\u2019m over this, when I\u2019m really not over this.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> So: \u201cDo I laugh in front of them?\u201d \u201cDo I not?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jill:<\/strong> Yes; absolutely.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> Am I right?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jill:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> It\u2019s a <em>hard<\/em> rollercoaster of emotions. You\u2019re the one who has to protect them and regulate them, because nobody else can help you with them.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> Nan, that\u2019s the thing I want to jump off of\u2014what Nan just said is\u2014because in our virtual group that met just a couple of weeks ago, we found ourselves talking with the parents about the importance of guarding and protecting your garden. I hate to say it; but as grieving parents, we have to just accept the fact that it\u2019s up to us to try and nurture the right relationships that will help us grieve. There are certain people, who are advantageous to your grief journey; and there are other people, who are really not helpful.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> You have to be very careful about what you share with whom. That made me mad when I first discovered that, as a grieving dad, because I thought everybody else should be taking care of me; but the reality is I have to figure out: \u201cWho are the best people?\u201d \u201cWhat are the best situations?\u201d \u201cWho do I share with?\u201d \u201cWho do I not share with?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>When you finally get a place like a While We\u2019re Waiting group, where you are completely free\/you can let your hair down\u2014I mean, think about what Nan just said, \u201cI\u2019m deciding whether or not to laugh in front of you, because I don\u2019t want you to think that I\u2019m over my son when I\u2019m not over my son,\u201d \u2014that\u2019s way too much <em>work<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jill:<\/strong> Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> I need to pick the place, where I don\u2019t have to <em>think<\/em> about that. I can just be real with whatever is there.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> It\u2019s such a different language; and when you find somebody, who is speaking that same language, you just want to be with them.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jill:<\/strong> Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> And you feel like you are not going crazy. I mean, we had the 40 books that came. But man, when I could talk to another mom\u2014and she was a little bit ahead of me; and she would say, \u201cYou\u2019re right where you need to be. I did the exact same thing,\u201d\u2014I just felt like, \u201cOkay, I think I can breathe now. I think I <em>can<\/em> do this. I know I <em>don\u2019t<\/em> want to do this; but okay, maybe, I can make it.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jill:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> What a\/I mean, what a gift from God this is; because as you\u2019ve just shared, it\u2019s like: \u201cYou know what we\u2019re going through\u201d; and you can walk in a place and know, \u201cI\u2019m okay here.\u201d Like some people are ahead of you; you can be ahead of others. It\u2019s just what a beautiful gift; because we started, saying, \u201cThe worst thing to do is go through a tragedy alone.\u201d You were providing a way for community to happen and heal people. Do you have stories of that?\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brad:<\/strong> Oh, yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> Yes; I do.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014people really seeing God meet them because of what you\u2019ve offered?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> We started doing a support group. Lo and behold, this woman came from the Philippines; and she is six months in\/seven months in.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> This is a virtual group.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> Then, she stopped coming. I knew why; I knew exactly why. I sensed in her where I was that first seven months\u2014in the closet, curled up in the fetal position\u2014barely making it\/trying to make it for my other kids.<\/p>\n<p>I messaged her one day on Facebook<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>. I said, \u201cI know you can\u2019t come to the group, but will you talk to me?\u201d Because of our connection, now, I\u2019m zooming with her every other Saturday from the Philippines. I know\/I messengered her this week: \u201cI know you are barely holding on, but I\u2019m praying for you; and God loves you.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>She messengered back: \u201cThat was the only hope I had today; thank you.\u201d It\u2019s because I\u2019ve been there\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jill:<\/strong> Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> \u2014that I could minister; and because I have some legs underneath this now, that I can do it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jill:<\/strong> Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> But it\u2019s through this ministry that I met her.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jill:<\/strong> Yes; yes. You know, every other social situation you are in, as a bereaved parent, you have a filter on everything you say and even everything you see; because everything comes through that lens of child loss. When you walk into one of our retreats, that all goes away\u2014the filter goes away; the mask goes away\u2014you can say anything\/share anything without fear of judgment, knowing that everybody else in there is going to say, \u201cOh! Me too!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jill:<\/strong> \u201cOh, I\u2019ve felt that same way.\u201d Child loss is not a one-time event. It\u2019s not over when your child dies. Your child is your future; so everything that happens from that point on is another loss. When our children didn\u2019t get to graduate from high school\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> Oh man!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jill:<\/strong> \u2014when they didn\u2019t get to go to prom, when they didn\u2019t get to start college, when they don\u2019t get to get married\u2014yet, their siblings do.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> They weren\u2019t at their brother\u2019s wedding\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jill:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> \u2014the way you wanted them to be.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jill:<\/strong> Exactly; exactly. It\u2019s an <em>ongoing<\/em> loss. It doesn\u2019t just end.<\/p>\n<p>You know, when you lose a parent\u2014when you lose somebody that\u2019s an expected loss\u2014that\u2019s just kind of the end; but because you\u2019ve lost your future when you lose a child, that\u2019s what makes it an <em>ongoing<\/em> loss; so there is something to grieve\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brad:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jill:<\/strong> \u2014always something to grieve.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> Always.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> I know you know\u2014[I], as a pastor, doing many, many funerals, and some for the loss of a child\u2014you want to be able to look at that parent and say, \u201cI have something for you.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jill:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> So how does somebody get ahold of this ministry? How do we send people to you?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jill:<\/strong> We have a website, and the website is WhileWereWaiting.org. Of course, no apostrophe; so it\u2019s WhileWereWaiting.org. We also have a pretty large Facebook presence. We have a public Facebook page that\u2019s just called While We\u2019re Waiting.<\/p>\n<p>If you are bereaved parent, though, we have a page called While We\u2019re Waiting Support for Bereaved Parents. If you have lost a child, you can request to join that page. It is a private page, and you have to answer some screening questions in order to be allowed in. It is a <em>wonderful<\/em> community\u2014that page\u2014there are a little over 6,000 people on it at this point. It is a clearly faith-based Facebook group. I get on there every day and post something\u2014a quote, a Scripture, something to encourage\u2014it\u2019s been a safe place for bereaved parents to gather.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> We\u2019ll put a link to that\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jill:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014on FamilyLife.com as well. I know there is a mom or dad listening right now\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brad:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014right now that maybe he is afraid. You know, there is that fear. This is the day you have to click that link; this is a step toward healing.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> There is somebody listening, who has a friend,\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> \u2014or a family member, who has lost a child. You\u2019ve desperately wanted to help them. You should remain in their life and ask them, \u201cHow are you doing today? Tell me about your son,\u201d\u2014and say their child\u2019s name and enter into that space as best you can\u2014but it\u2019s <em>great<\/em> to know you can tell them about this ministry, and they can go to a different level in their grief journey.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> Another support that you have is your new podcast.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jill:<\/strong> It\u2019s called <em>While We\u2019re Waiting: Hope After Child Loss<\/em>. It\u2019s something we started really kind of in response to COVID, because all of our retreats were shut down for several months. We did a few Facebook live things\u2014it\u2019s interviews and other things\u2014so it\u2019s\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> You know\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> \u2014great topics.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> \u2014I think one of the questions parents are asking themselves is: \u201cAm I crazy?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> I know Brad, Jill\u2014I know you guys have heard that a <em>thousand<\/em> times: \u201cAm I crazy? Is it just me? I really\u2014to think this way\u2014is it\/it can\u2019t be right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jill:<\/strong> Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> \u201cAm I not being faithful enough?\u201d\u2014like all of those shaming, guilting, self-condemning sorts of things we do, as Christians, when we\u2019re dealing with hard things. It\u2019s so relieving to hear somebody say, \u201cYes, that\u2019s normal.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jill:<\/strong> Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> \u201cYes, that\u2019s normal.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brad:<\/strong> \u201cYou\u2019re not crazy.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> \u201cYou\u2019re not crazy.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes, you know\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> \u201cYou\u2019re in the right place.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> We started saying, \u201cIf you go through this alone, you can have those questions; because you don\u2019t know the answer.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brad:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> If you go through this in community, you go, \u201cOh, this is what God made me for. I have to be a part of this. It\u2019s the only way I\u2019m going to make it.\u201d So way to go! Thanks.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes, thank you for sharing the story of Hannah and Connor. I look at\/man, you guys are really using their lives to help other people.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> Thank you.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> Thank you.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> Christian community is so powerful, so important, so needed when we are walking through difficult circumstances. The Bible tells us we are to weep with those who weep; we are to encourage the faint-hearted and help the weak. That\u2019s what has been modeled for us by Brad and Jill Sullivan, Ron and Nan Deal as they\u2019ve been sharing their story\/what they are offering to others\u2014Brad and Jill are doing retreats\u2014both one-day and weekend retreats for moms, dads, for couples together. We\u2019ve got a link on our website, at FamilyLifeToday.com, where you can find out more about these getaways that the Sullivans are offering. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com for more information.<\/p>\n<p>You can also get a copy of a book that Levi Lusko has written. The Luskos went through the loss of a child; we shared their story last month on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Levi has written about it in a book called <em>Through the Eyes of a Lion: Facing Impossible Pain, Finding Incredible Power<\/em>. You can get a copy of that book for yourself\u2014or if you know someone who is grieving, maybe, you want to reach out to them and come alongside them to provide encouragement, and support, and help\u2014get them a copy of Levi Lusko\u2019s book, <em>Through the Eyes of a Lion<\/em>. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com to order it or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to get your copy. Again, the website is FamilyLifeToday.com. Our number is 1-800-358-6329; that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d You can order your copy of Levi Lusko\u2019s book, <em>Through the Eyes of a Lion<\/em>, when you get in touch with us.<\/p>\n<p>I want to take just a minute and say, \u201cThank you,\u201d to those of you who have, in the past, partnered with us to help make programs like today\u2019s program possible. I wish you were here to read the notes that we get\/the thank-yous we receive from listeners, who tell us how God uses programs like this so powerfully in their own lives. Really, their thanks belong to you; because you\u2019ve made what we do, here, at <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> possible every time you make a donation.<\/p>\n<p><em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is listener-supported. Without your donations\u2014this radio program, this podcast, our events, our resources\u2014none of that would be possible if it weren\u2019t for people, like you, who believe that strong marriages and strong families are foundational to what we are all about as believers in Christ. So thank you for your support.<\/p>\n<p>If you are able to make a donation today, we\u2019d love to send you, as a thank-you gift, a copy of Wendy Speake\u2019s book, <em>The 40-Day Social Media Fast<\/em>. I know some of you are thinking, \u201cI don\u2019t think I want to take a 40-day social media fast.\u201d Well, Wendy\u2019s book, not only provides you with the rationale of why that is a good idea, but it gives you guidance. Wendy becomes your companion as you go through 40 days of detoxifying\/cleansing from what can sometimes build up on social media.<\/p>\n<p>Again, Wendy Speake\u2019s, <em>The 40-Day Social Media Fast,<\/em> is our gift to you when you make a donation today. Donate online at FamilyLifeToday.com, or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to donate. Again, on behalf of those who benefit from all that we do here at FamilyLife, thank you for partnering with us.<\/p>\n<p>We hope you can join us, again, tomorrow when we\u2019re going to hear things we ought not say and, maybe, the right things to say to parents who are grieving the loss of a child. Ron and Nan Deal will be back with Brad and Jill Sullivan. I hope you can be back with us as well.<\/p>\n<p>On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you tomorrow for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry.<\/p>\n<p>Helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.<\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>We are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?<\/p>\n<p>Copyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2021 FamilyLife. 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