{"id":306924,"date":"2021-07-01T07:00:05","date_gmt":"2021-07-01T11:00:05","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/intentional-dating\/"},"modified":"2021-07-01T07:00:05","modified_gmt":"2021-07-01T11:00:05","slug":"intentional-dating","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/intentional-dating\/","title":{"rendered":"Intentional Dating"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Though dating culture has changed so much in recent years, JP Pokluda offers insight into how to make dating really count.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2021-07-01.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:29:37","filesize":"27.12M","filesize_raw":"28441462","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2817,2848],"tags":[6986,4018,6985],"podcast_series":[8456],"cwp_profile":[9594],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-306924","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-choosing-a-spouse","category-cultural-issues","tag-current-trends","tag-dating","tag-not-dating","podcast_series-outdated","cwp_profile-jp-pokluda","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/306924\/intentional-dating","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/306924\/intentional-dating","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"ycxlKnI3PG\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/intentional-dating\/\">Intentional Dating<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/intentional-dating\/embed\/#?secret=ycxlKnI3PG\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Intentional Dating&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"ycxlKnI3PG\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2021-07-01.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2021-07-01.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Alright, let me ask you, honey: \u201cDo you remember our first date?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes, kind of.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> What do you remember?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That you were <em>stinking<\/em> hot. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> That I don\u2019t remember; actually, I had hair.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Do you remember it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Do you remember what you remember about it?\u2014what you\u2019ve told me\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> No.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014that I didn\u2019t have any idea I did?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> No.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You said I kept hitting you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Every time I\u2019d make a point, I\u2019d take my hand and hit your shoulder. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u201cThis guy\u2019s super touchy.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I remember you thought it was weird.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I liked it though.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I\u2019m Ann Wilson.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And I\u2019m Dave Wilson, and you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com or on our FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> app.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes, I don\u2019t know if I did. I do now though. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tToday, we\u2019ve got a broadcast on dating with the <em>expert<\/em> who wrote a book on dating, Jonathan Pokluda. Did I get it right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>JP:<\/strong> You nailed it, yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; alright.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>JP:<\/strong> I didn\u2019t know if you were going to introduce me; because I was just like, \u201cOh, you guys are on a date right now,\u201d\u2014kind of watching it happen\u2014you were staring deep in each other\u2019s eyes; it was amazing.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> That\u2019s what we do. Every moment with us is like a great date.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s right; it is.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Jonathan, glad to have you here: pastor of Harris Creek Baptist Church in Waco. I first found you online when you were leading The Porch. I did not know The Porch ministry of Watermark Church in Dallas went from 150 to 7,000 young people\u2014all singles?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>JP:<\/strong> Yes, predominately. It\u2019s a young adult ministry; but mostly\/probably 95 percent single. Ministry has changed, as we\u2019ve talked about before, where we probably have 3,500 there in the room\u2014but then 20 campuses around the country\u2014people watching, live, from different churches around the U.S. and really around the world now. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You were leading that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>JP:<\/strong> Yes, I led that for 12 years.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Were you amazed by the growth?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>JP:<\/strong> I was <em>amazed<\/em> that I would get to be a part of it. I\u2019m never amazed by what God does, but that I get to be a part of it has never ceased to amaze me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Well, I know when I turned it on\u2014again, I\u2019m from Michigan\u2014I hate to say it, but I wasn\u2019t familiar with The Porch; I just heard the name.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>JP:<\/strong> It wasn\u2019t your demographic; it\u2019s okay. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I guess; I guess. I turned you on and watched you. I\u2019m like, \u201cOh, my goodness, you can preach. Wow!\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cNo wonder.\u201d It wasn\u2019t just that you\u2019re a gifted preacher. In my opinion, it was the truth of the gospel. Every message I watched, you were leading young people to Jesus through the things that they were concerned about.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>JP:<\/strong> Thank you for saying that. That may be the highest compliment someone could give me, because what else are we going to do if we\u2019re not leading people to Jesus? That\u2019s the part that amazes me\/that I get to be a part of, honestly. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You\u2019re married\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>JP:<\/strong> I am.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014to Monica.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>JP:<\/strong> Yes, been married 16 years.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And kids?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>JP:<\/strong> We have three kids: Weston, our son, and our daughters, Finley and Presley. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> This book on dating is dynamite, as we just read through it. It\u2019s called <em>Outdated: Find Love That Lasts When Dating Has Changed. <\/em>As you\u2019re talking to young people\/thousands of young people over the years, you\u2019ve learned a few things, obviously, about dating. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>JP:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> One of the things you say at the beginning is: \u201cDating has changed, and it\u2019s not really working.\u201d What\u2019s that mean?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>JP:<\/strong> Dating\u2019s changed with technology\/the boom of technology. The way that people find love\u2014they\u2019re looking for love\u2014the way that their hearts are engaged in this topic has changed <em>immensely<\/em>. No one out there would argue that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think, for parents, we need to understand that our kids are growing up in a different world. We weren\u2019t swiping left or right, trying to find love; we weren\u2019t taking compatibility tests\/personality tests. Professional match makers is an industry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>JP:<\/strong> We have more help on the topic of dating than any generation that has ever lived, and we\u2019re the worst at it. Consider this: people are getting married later; they\u2019re getting married <em>less<\/em>; and marriages aren\u2019t lasting. Whatever you would call the divorce rate today\u2014there\u2019s discrepancy in this\u2014let\u2019s just say somewhere between 40 and \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t50 percent. Then there\u2019s this other significant number of people that stay married but they\u2019re just un-divorced. That\u2019s how I would draw the conclusion that most marriages fail: you\u2019ve got some end, and some are unhappily married; yet, we have more help than ever. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFor those who want to be married, we need to figure this out\u2014the way that we\u2019re doing this today is outdated\u2014dating, as we understand it\/as we define it, is a relatively new idea.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes, I was going to ask: \u201cWhen did that happen?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>JP:<\/strong> About 120 years ago, it entered the English language as a euphuism for prostitution. To \u201cgo on a date\u201d meant to exchange an experience for sexual favors. Now, if you consider how the world dates today, we haven\u2019t come that far. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>JP:<\/strong> The interesting thing about this is Hollywood has the highest divorce rates of anyone on the planet; and they\u2019re the ones pumping out the: \u201cHey, do it this way\u2026\u201d \u201cLet us teach you how to date,\u201d \u201cHey, watch this\u2026\u201d They should not be teaching us how to find love that lasts. [Laughter] We have to go somewhere else. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI would go to the author of love, the One who is <em>called<\/em> Love; the One, who not only invented love, but embodies love; and He\u2019s going to rightfully tell us. Now we know the Bible says nothing about dating, because that wasn\u2019t a thing then. But it says a lot about relationships and how we can foster relationships. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis book is observing literally tens of thousands of relationships over a decade\u2014seeing what they do that works; seeing what they do that doesn\u2019t work; and realizing the pattern that, when they seek to honor God in the way that they built and formed these relationships, it tends to go well; and when they don\u2019t, it doesn\u2019t tend to go well\u2014so just introducing those eternal truths.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You\u2019re talking about: \u201cIt doesn\u2019t work\u2014at least, not working well\u2014the way we date today.\u201d What are we doing wrong? Because when you say all these things, you\u2019re right. We have personality tests; Ann and I never did that. I mean, these people that can help us and tests that can help us are <em>awesome<\/em>; and yet, it\u2019s not working. Why not?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>JP:<\/strong> I think people, first and foremost, are dating for fun; so we don\u2019t think about the intentionality. We don\u2019t think about it like a job interview\u2014like if I\u2019m auditioning for a part or I\u2019m going to try to play a role\u2014\u201cWhat is the actual job?\u201d People don\u2019t date, thinking about: \u201cOkay, marriage: how do I identify if this person is going to make a great spouse?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe date for the manic highs and the manic lows. I think so many young people today are <em>addicted<\/em> to the emotional roller coaster; they can\u2019t get off of it. Girls will come up and say, \u201cI just don\u2019t know why I only date these scum bags,\u201d or they\u2019ll use a different word. I\u2019ll say, \u201cYou\u2019re addicted to it. That\u2019s what you\u2019ve trained your heart to look for.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tProverbs 4:23 says: \u201cAbove all else, guard your heart for it\u2019s the well spring of life.\u201d That\u2019s one of those eye-roll verses, like, \u201cOkay, I get it; guard my heart.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut what it actually says is: \u201cMore than you guard anything in the world, protect your heart. Above all else, protect your heart\/guard your heart. Be careful what you let in, because it takes you places.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe world will say, \u201cFollow your heart.\u201d The Scripture teaches us to <em>inform<\/em> our heart before we follow it. You don\u2019t want to follow an uninformed heart. You don\u2019t want to follow your feelings and your emotions, because that\u2019s what you\u2019ve done in every relationship you\u2019ve ever been in; you\u2019ve followed it into the relationship and out of relationship. I think that message is foundational to what we\u2019re doing wrong today when\u00a0 it comes to dating. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That stuff is big; because I hear you and think, \u201cThat is the fun of it. That is\/it\u2019s the highs; it\u2019s the lows; it\u2019s the wondering.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> She\u2019s getting excited. I can see her right now, like the adrenaline rush.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> But here\u2019s what happens\u2014is you\u2019re right\u2014if you don\u2019t have a perspective of why not to do that, you just fall into it. Then, when you say, \u201cBring God into this,\u201d that\u2019s like: \u201cOh, so I\u2019m\/what\u2019s that look like?\u201d We didn\u2019t grow up in the church; so when somebody said, \u201cBring God into it, and don\u2019t give your heart away,\u201d I was so confused by all that terminology: \u201cHow do I bring God in?\u201d and \u201cHow do I not give my heart away when I\u2019ve done that all the time?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou\u2019ve talked to <em>tons<\/em> of people that have done both of those things.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>JP:<\/strong> Yes, I think you have to date with intentionality; but to say: \u201cHey, here\u2019s why I\u2019m here\/this is what I\u2019m doing: I\u2019m not just following my feelings. What I hope to do, over this coffee, is really intentionally find out if we want to have another coffee\/if we want to keep spending time together. I\u2019m going to ask you questions for the purpose of finding out if I want to do this again and really, hopefully to reveal to you, if you want to do this again.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut most people don\u2019t think that; they show up and they say, \u201cMan, I hope I feel something.\u201d That has not gone well for us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You got\/you just used the word, \u201cpurpose.\u201d The first part of you book is: \u201cWhy We Date,\u201d so let\u2019s talk purpose. Number one is: \u201cWhat is dating anyway?\u201d Can you define it? Why would we date?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>JP:<\/strong> Dating is a path to a promise\u2014Simply put: it\u2019s a path to a promise\u2014you\u2019re trying to move in a relationship toward a commitment\/a lifelong commitment. If we apply that to the question, \u201cWhy do we date?\u201d\u2014we date to find a spouse. \u201cWhat if I\u2019m not looking for a spouse?\u201d\u2014then you don\u2019t need to go on a date. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cWell, what if I\u2019m still want to have fun with the opposite sex?\u201d\u2014well, now we\u2019re back to dating for fun. It\u2019s not going to be fun\u2014that\u2019s the irony; that\u2019s the irony\u2014when you date for fun, and you experience the manic highs and the manic lows, it leads to heartbreak, lots of sleepless nights, anxiety, snot-crying in your pillow. [Laughter] That\u2019s where dating for fun goes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut when you date on purpose, it can be a lot of fun: I can see that; I can measure that; I can have conversations around that. Romans 12:9 says: \u201cLove must be sincere.\u201d There\u2019s no games; I\u2019m not left wondering. I always tell guys, \u201cLet me tell you something about girls: \u2018Girls wonder.\u2019\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>JP:<\/strong> They\u2019re like, \u201cWhat do you mean?\u201d \u201cThey wonder if you\u2019re going to call them; they wonder if you\u2019re going to text them; they wonder where this is going; they wonder what you\u2019re thinking.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tPeople say, \u201cWhat does it mean \u2018to lead in dating\u2019?\u201d I say, \u201cLeaders remove confusion. Clarity is kindness; so as much as you can, remove that confusion. As much as you can, lovingly say, \u2018Here\u2019s what I am thinking\u2026\u2019\u201d So much of dating is turning your thoughts into words and being sincere towards one another. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Are you saying, on an early date, the man or the woman should state pretty honestly from the very beginning their intentions? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>JP:<\/strong> I\u2019m saying, \u201cWhat else are they doing there if not trying to find a spouse?\u201d This plays into, especially for parents, as you think about dating in high school. I\u2019ve got kids moving toward high school and just trying to manage those expectations as a parent. I sat my girls down and I said, \u201cListen, this is what dating is. Everybody\u2019s going to do it this way; right?\u2014they just are excited to go to the dance with somebody. You\u2019re going to hear that they\u2019re in love, and you\u2019re going to see the tears, first hand. I want you to take note where those relationships go.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tEverybody\u2014when I say that\u2014wants to tell me about the one high school sweetheart experience they know. I get that\u2014those are there; that\u2019s awesome\u2014I celebrate that like the next person. But what is <em>way <\/em>more common\/<em>exponentially <\/em>more common than that, are the many, many, many, many breakups; because, as Song of Solomon says, we\u2019ve \u201cawakened love before its time.\u201d [Song of Solomon 8:4] We begin to play married; that has <em>not<\/em> gone well for us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> With your kids, are they allowed to have a boyfriend or a girlfriend based on the definition of dating? When does that happen then? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>JP:<\/strong> For us, in our family, we just say we\u2014I\u2019m big on this\u2014\u201cYou date for marriage and Daddy is going to help you. I have your best interest in mind.\u201d I pray every single morning for their spouse; I pray every morning that they would not awaken love before its time; I pray every morning they would not set anything evil before their eyes; and really want to help them.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat I\u2019ve done in the first season of parenting is tried to earn their trust; you know. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[I] just want you to know, like, an, you can trust me. I have your best interest in mind. There are going to be some times in the future, where everything in you says, \u201cYou need to go right,\u201d and I\u2019m going to say, \u201cYou need to go left.\u201d It\u2019s going to feel like an injustice and unfair. But I hope that you will watch those times closely. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMy commitment to you is\u2014I can\u2019t promise you I will always be right\u2014when I\u2019m wrong, I\u2019m going to own it fully; I\u2019m going to ask forgiveness and seek to be reconciled to you. But I really do want to earn your trust.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd this one\u2019s going to be, I think, the hardest is: everyone in your class\/\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>JP:<\/strong> \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014all the girls around you are going to go crazy for boys and be talking about them, and you\u2019re going to feel left out. You\u2019re going to feel like you have nothing to contribute and like your parents are strict. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to make sure that we have fun. If there\u2019s a dance that weekend at the school, that everybody\u2019s going crazy about, if we can\/if we have the means, I\u2019m like, \u201cYou know what? I\u2019m taking you to New York that weekend and give you a better alternative.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m always trying to think through: \u201cHow can I give them a better alternative?\u201d That doesn\u2019t have to be expensive. It can be a camping trip; it can be just something that they want to do. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You\u2019re really saying: \u201cI want more for you,\u201d \u201cI want <em>better<\/em> for you.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>JP:<\/strong> That\u2019s what God says to us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>JP:<\/strong> \u201cI want better for you than the world offers.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Are you saying, at 13, you\u2019re not going to let her go to that dance?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>JP:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014or is it her call?\u2014or <em>when<\/em> would you let her go?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>JP:<\/strong> I\u2019m fine with her going to a dance. I think every kid\/it has to be different, based on their level of maturity. That\u2019s a part of, as parents, we have to be students of our children. But if she goes to that dance, I hope she goes in a group and they have fun. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s not like I want my daughter to not be around boys until she\u2019s married to one. I want her to be around boys a lot\u2014but just not in that one-on-one setting\u2014where we know\/I mean, every person over the age of 21, hearing this right now, thinks back to the foolish things you did when you were 18. [Laughter] Hormones are going crazy; you couldn\u2019t wait to get by yourself and just push the envelope. Yes, I want to protect her from that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> JP, the last time you were here, we talked a little bit about your past\/that you feel like you didn\u2019t do this well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>JP:<\/strong> I did not do this well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> What did that look like?\u2014because you\u2019re passionate about it now for reasons.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I got to tell you. One of our researchers, who read through your book and wrote us some notes, said, \u201cI would say the book title should be <em>Everything I Did Wrong So That You Don\u2019t Do It Too. <\/em>[Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>\u00a0<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>JP:<\/strong> That\u2019s right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> She was just saying, \u201cYou were very honest\u201d; and obviously, you were. Tell us what you did wrong.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>JP:<\/strong> There are no perfect parents, as some people would say. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI don\u2019t think I was ever single longer than two weeks since the fifth grade. Most of those relationships were overlapping. I had gone to a university for divorce\u2014because the way that we date is really training for divorce\u2014because you get in a relationship; and when you don\u2019t <em>feel<\/em> in love with them anymore, you get out of a relationship. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen you get in another relationship because you have all the feels\u2014it\u2019s exciting, and it\u2019s fun\u2014you get up in the morning, and your heart beats; you have a reason to live; you\u2019re thinking about them; you\u2019re wondering when they\u2019re going to call; and when they do, your body releases all these endorphins and just a serotonin <em>dump<\/em>\u2014you feel so <em>great<\/em>, like you\u2019re on ecstasy. Then you realize that they do this thing that annoys you and, all of a sudden, all the feels leave. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis is a <em>systematic training<\/em> for divorce. That\u2019s why we go into marriage\u2014and the way that we\u2019ve dated\u2014has <em>taught<\/em> us to get a divorce.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I have never\/have you ever thought of this?!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>JP:<\/strong> No, it\u2019s so true.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You\u2019re right; you\u2019re <em>so<\/em> right. It\u2019s\/it really is: we\u2019re <em>training<\/em> ourselves for divorce.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> In some ways, you\u2019re defining a very, very popular show on TV\u2014that I would love to say, \u201cI never once watched\u201d; but I\u2019ve actually watched a few times\u2014is <em>The Bachelor<\/em>\/<em>The Bachelorette<\/em>. They just sort of <em>model<\/em> that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>JP:<\/strong> Look at the success rate. The show\/it\u2019s been a <em>long-running<\/em> show.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>JP:<\/strong> But you just look at the <em>success rate<\/em> of that show when it\u2019s like: \u201cHey, we\u2019re going to give these compatibility tests. We\u2019re going to create the perfect scenario. We\u2019re going to let you choose from all these people,\u201d and you still get it wrong.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> That\u2019s the model you\u2019re talking about. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>JP:<\/strong> That\u2019s right. Sex at an early age in high school and, really, just then dating becomes a pursuit of that. Now you\u2019re talking about, not just a university that\u2019s training you for a divorce, but a university that\u2019s training you for adultery. But not just sex; then pornography. As I became an adult, I had an extreme addiction to pornography\/daily looking at porn. An addiction to porn is not an addiction to sex; it\u2019s an addiction to variety. There is no room for monogamy for the person who\u2019s addicted to porn; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen I became a Christian. That\u2019s a story in and of itself. I\u2019m at a club; someone invites me to a church. I trust in Christ.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Whoa, whoa, wait! You\u2019ve got to give us a little more: \u201cI\u2019m at a club\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>JP:<\/strong> Yes, I\u2019m at a club. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cand I get invited to church.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>JP:<\/strong> I grew up in church; I went to church school; you know? I went to church three times a week sometimes. Then I went to college. I, because I didn\u2019t have a relationship with Jesus, I did all the crazy things that pagan college students do. Then I graduated somehow; and I\u2019m at this club, 18 years ago. I\u2019m talking to this girl; I say, \u201cWhat are you doing this weekend?\u201d She said, \u201cI\u2019m going to go check out this church tomorrow.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI said, \u201cGreat, pick me up.\u201d She does; so I go, hungover. I sit in the back row, smell like smoke. I had heard the gospel; I had <em>talked<\/em> about the gospel with other people. But the Holy Spirit at that point\u2014she really exits the story\u2014I kept going week, after week, after week, and just really getting beat up\u2014[Laughter]\u2014like sitting in the parking lot, weeping; like, \u201cWhat is wrong with me?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI just\/I was watching these people, legitimately, follow Jesus; and I gave my life to Christ. The Holy Spirit came and just cleaned house. There were things that went away <em>so<\/em> easy: the way that I talked\u2014my language was terrible\u2014He fixed that. I had major anger issues; He fixed that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tPornography\u2014man, that lingered; it just didn\u2019t\u2014I\u2019ve done drugs; I\u2019ve been an alcoholic\u2014<em>nothing<\/em> ripped my life like that [pornography] addiction; it just enslaved me. I have accountability. I begin to experience freedom and healing from that addiction. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI get married\u2014and I say this prayer\u2014the pastor\u2019s up there; we make these crazy promises to each other; you know: \u201c\u2026for better or worse; sickness and health; till death do us part.\u201d He says, \u201cYou may kiss your bride.\u201d We walk down the aisle. Our friends and family are there; they\u2019re applauding. It\u2019s beautiful; she\u2019s beautiful. I hold her in my arms in the foyer\u2014and I say\/I say this prayer\u2014I say, \u201cDear God, thank You for allowing me to escape the consequences of my sin.\u201d I was like, \u201cMan, I got away.\u201d And I was thinking of pornography\/I was thinking of sexual sin. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen I got two years into marriage, and I realized how na\u00efve that prayer was; because I hadn\u2019t escaped the consequences of my sin. It just came in a different way; I had no idea how to love one woman for the rest of my life. I had systematically trained myself that, as soon as I don\u2019t <em>feel<\/em> something, I\u2019m out. I felt <em>so stuck<\/em>, and she felt so <em>stuck<\/em>. We\u2019re looking at each other; and it\u2019s like: \u201cI don\u2019t know? Do I love you? I don\u2019t know anymore. I don\u2019t even know if I <em>like<\/em> you. What do we <em>do<\/em>?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat was a <em>symptom<\/em> of the way that we date. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>JP:<\/strong> That\u2019s what happens. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You carried\u2014you mention in your book\u2014you carried luggage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>JP:<\/strong> I carried the baggage, yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> We\u2019re all standing at the altar, and if we could see behind the reality, we have these bags.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>JP:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> We don\u2019t think we have them. You prayed a prayer, thinking: \u201cI\u2019m glad I escaped that.\u201d And yet,\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>JP:<\/strong> I\u2019m just carrying them with me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014you\u2019ve got more than a carry-on coming on that baby. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think it will be worth talking about that piece more even.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave<\/strong>: Yes, for sure. I know that for Ann and I, our dating relationship was the only relationship, where Christ really was the foundation. I just surrendered my life to Christ; she had done the same thing. It was like a <em>totally<\/em> different experience, because we had a purpose.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>JP:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>It changed <em>everything<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think it changed everything, and the <em>biggest<\/em> thing was we put Jesus in the center. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>JP: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> We\u2019d start a date with prayer; end a date with prayer; put boundaries on the physical relationship. I mean, I had <em>never<\/em> done that; it was <em>radically<\/em> different. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m not saying, if you do that, you\u2019re going to marry that person; but I would challenge the single listener: \u201cPut Jesus at the center of your dating life. You may have never done that before. Get on your knees, right now, and say, \u2018I\u2019m going to surrender this area to my Lord and Savior.\u2019 Trust Him, and it will be a uniquely different experience.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs I sit here now, married 40 years, I know that decision, when we were dating, changed my legacy. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, if it wasn\u2019t clear to you before today, I think the conversation that Dave and Ann Wilson have had today makes it clear that the way we\u2019re doing dating in the \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t21<sup>st<\/sup> century in the United States is not accomplishing what the people, who are dating, want it to accomplish. Dating is broken. Part of the reason is because we\u2019re not approaching the whole issue of dating from a biblical framework. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s what Jonathan Pokluda\u2019s book, <em>Outdated,<\/em> is really all about. It\u2019s a look at how we can think biblically about the subject of dating. Whether you\u2019re in your 20s or 30s, trying to figure out how you can have a dating life that is honoring to God, or maybe you\u2019re dating again after the loss of a spouse or a divorce, you want to have an understanding of dating that is biblical. That\u2019s what JP\u2019s book is all about. Again, it\u2019s called <em>Outdated: Find Love That Lasts When Dating Has Changed. <\/em>You can go to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com, to request your copy of JP\u2019s book, <em>Outdated<\/em>; or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY to get your copy.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, the website is FamilyLifeToday.com. Look for JP Pokluda\u2019s book, <em>Outdated: Find Love That Lasts When Dating Has Changed, <\/em>orcall to request your copy of the book: 1-800-FL-TODAY is our number; 1-800-358-6329; that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, one of the things we know about some of you, as listeners, is that you are people who really have a heart to want to help other people. We know that because some of you have donated to make sure that <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is on the air in your community so that other people can benefit from this program. <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is listener-supported. It\u2019s because of a handful of listeners in your community that you were able to listen to today\u2019s program. If you are one of those folks, who has helped support the ministry of FamilyLife over the years, we want to say, \u201cThank you for that ongoing support. On behalf of your fellow listeners, thank you for making this program possible for us.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you are someone who likes to help other people, earlier this week, we talked with PeggySue Wells and Pam Farrel about <em>The 10 Best Decisions a Single Mom Can Make<\/em>. We want to make copies of that book available to anyone who makes a donation to support the ministry. My thought is: \u201cThis is a great book for you to give to a single mom you know as a way to express love for her and to say, \u2018I\u2019m here to help.\u2019 Make a donation to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>; request your copy of the book, <em>The 10 Best Decisions a Single Mom Can Make<\/em>. We\u2019ll send that to you as your thank-you gift for your support. Not only will your donation be helping others, but having a chance to give away the book to someone you know will be helpful as well.\u201d Let me just say, \u201cThank you, in advance, for your ongoing support of this ministry.\u201d We do appreciate you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe hope you can join us, again, tomorrow when we\u2019re going to talk about the gift of singleness. You know, the Bible talks about singleness as a gift. There are some singles who wonder, \u201cIs it a gift or is it a curse?\u201d We\u2019ll hear what Jonathan Pokluda has to say about that tomorrow. I hope you can join us for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOn behalf of our hosts Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We\u2019ll see you next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelping you pursue the relationships that matter most.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2021 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:29:37"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["27.12M"],"filesize_raw":["28441462"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-306924.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-306924.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom 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dating culture has changed so much in recent years, JP Pokluda offers insight into how to make dating really count.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2021-07-01.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Alright, let me ask you, honey: \u201cDo you remember our first date?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes, kind of.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> What do you remember?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That you were <em>stinking<\/em> hot. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> That I don\u2019t remember; actually, I had hair.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Do you remember it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Do you remember what you remember about it?\u2014what you\u2019ve told me\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> No.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014that I didn\u2019t have any idea I did?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> No.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You said I kept hitting you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Every time I\u2019d make a point, I\u2019d take my hand and hit your shoulder. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u201cThis guy\u2019s super touchy.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I remember you thought it was weird.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I liked it though.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I\u2019m Ann Wilson.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And I\u2019m Dave Wilson, and you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com or on our FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> app.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes, I don\u2019t know if I did. I do now though. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tToday, we\u2019ve got a broadcast on dating with the <em>expert<\/em> who wrote a book on dating, Jonathan Pokluda. Did I get it right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>JP:<\/strong> You nailed it, yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; alright.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>JP:<\/strong> I didn\u2019t know if you were going to introduce me; because I was just like, \u201cOh, you guys are on a date right now,\u201d\u2014kind of watching it happen\u2014you were staring deep in each other\u2019s eyes; it was amazing.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> That\u2019s what we do. Every moment with us is like a great date.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s right; it is.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Jonathan, glad to have you here: pastor of Harris Creek Baptist Church in Waco. I first found you online when you were leading The Porch. I did not know The Porch ministry of Watermark Church in Dallas went from 150 to 7,000 young people\u2014all singles?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>JP:<\/strong> Yes, predominately. It\u2019s a young adult ministry; but mostly\/probably 95 percent single. Ministry has changed, as we\u2019ve talked about before, where we probably have 3,500 there in the room\u2014but then 20 campuses around the country\u2014people watching, live, from different churches around the U.S. and really around the world now. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You were leading that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>JP:<\/strong> Yes, I led that for 12 years.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Were you amazed by the growth?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>JP:<\/strong> I was <em>amazed<\/em> that I would get to be a part of it. I\u2019m never amazed by what God does, but that I get to be a part of it has never ceased to amaze me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Well, I know when I turned it on\u2014again, I\u2019m from Michigan\u2014I hate to say it, but I wasn\u2019t familiar with The Porch; I just heard the name.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>JP:<\/strong> It wasn\u2019t your demographic; it\u2019s okay. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I guess; I guess. I turned you on and watched you. I\u2019m like, \u201cOh, my goodness, you can preach. Wow!\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cNo wonder.\u201d It wasn\u2019t just that you\u2019re a gifted preacher. In my opinion, it was the truth of the gospel. Every message I watched, you were leading young people to Jesus through the things that they were concerned about.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>JP:<\/strong> Thank you for saying that. That may be the highest compliment someone could give me, because what else are we going to do if we\u2019re not leading people to Jesus? That\u2019s the part that amazes me\/that I get to be a part of, honestly. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You\u2019re married\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>JP:<\/strong> I am.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014to Monica.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>JP:<\/strong> Yes, been married 16 years.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And kids?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>JP:<\/strong> We have three kids: Weston, our son, and our daughters, Finley and Presley. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> This book on dating is dynamite, as we just read through it. It\u2019s called <em>Outdated: Find Love That Lasts When Dating Has Changed. <\/em>As you\u2019re talking to young people\/thousands of young people over the years, you\u2019ve learned a few things, obviously, about dating. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>JP:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> One of the things you say at the beginning is: \u201cDating has changed, and it\u2019s not really working.\u201d What\u2019s that mean?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>JP:<\/strong> Dating\u2019s changed with technology\/the boom of technology. The way that people find love\u2014they\u2019re looking for love\u2014the way that their hearts are engaged in this topic has changed <em>immensely<\/em>. No one out there would argue that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think, for parents, we need to understand that our kids are growing up in a different world. We weren\u2019t swiping left or right, trying to find love; we weren\u2019t taking compatibility tests\/personality tests. Professional match makers is an industry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>JP:<\/strong> We have more help on the topic of dating than any generation that has ever lived, and we\u2019re the worst at it. Consider this: people are getting married later; they\u2019re getting married <em>less<\/em>; and marriages aren\u2019t lasting. Whatever you would call the divorce rate today\u2014there\u2019s discrepancy in this\u2014let\u2019s just say somewhere between 40 and \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t50 percent. Then there\u2019s this other significant number of people that stay married but they\u2019re just un-divorced. That\u2019s how I would draw the conclusion that most marriages fail: you\u2019ve got some end, and some are unhappily married; yet, we have more help than ever. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFor those who want to be married, we need to figure this out\u2014the way that we\u2019re doing this today is outdated\u2014dating, as we understand it\/as we define it, is a relatively new idea.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes, I was going to ask: \u201cWhen did that happen?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>JP:<\/strong> About 120 years ago, it entered the English language as a euphuism for prostitution. To \u201cgo on a date\u201d meant to exchange an experience for sexual favors. Now, if you consider how the world dates today, we haven\u2019t come that far. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>JP:<\/strong> The interesting thing about this is Hollywood has the highest divorce rates of anyone on the planet; and they\u2019re the ones pumping out the: \u201cHey, do it this way\u2026\u201d \u201cLet us teach you how to date,\u201d \u201cHey, watch this\u2026\u201d They should not be teaching us how to find love that lasts. [Laughter] We have to go somewhere else. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI would go to the author of love, the One who is <em>called<\/em> Love; the One, who not only invented love, but embodies love; and He\u2019s going to rightfully tell us. Now we know the Bible says nothing about dating, because that wasn\u2019t a thing then. But it says a lot about relationships and how we can foster relationships. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis book is observing literally tens of thousands of relationships over a decade\u2014seeing what they do that works; seeing what they do that doesn\u2019t work; and realizing the pattern that, when they seek to honor God in the way that they built and formed these relationships, it tends to go well; and when they don\u2019t, it doesn\u2019t tend to go well\u2014so just introducing those eternal truths.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You\u2019re talking about: \u201cIt doesn\u2019t work\u2014at least, not working well\u2014the way we date today.\u201d What are we doing wrong? Because when you say all these things, you\u2019re right. We have personality tests; Ann and I never did that. I mean, these people that can help us and tests that can help us are <em>awesome<\/em>; and yet, it\u2019s not working. Why not?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>JP:<\/strong> I think people, first and foremost, are dating for fun; so we don\u2019t think about the intentionality. We don\u2019t think about it like a job interview\u2014like if I\u2019m auditioning for a part or I\u2019m going to try to play a role\u2014\u201cWhat is the actual job?\u201d People don\u2019t date, thinking about: \u201cOkay, marriage: how do I identify if this person is going to make a great spouse?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe date for the manic highs and the manic lows. I think so many young people today are <em>addicted<\/em> to the emotional roller coaster; they can\u2019t get off of it. Girls will come up and say, \u201cI just don\u2019t know why I only date these scum bags,\u201d or they\u2019ll use a different word. I\u2019ll say, \u201cYou\u2019re addicted to it. That\u2019s what you\u2019ve trained your heart to look for.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tProverbs 4:23 says: \u201cAbove all else, guard your heart for it\u2019s the well spring of life.\u201d That\u2019s one of those eye-roll verses, like, \u201cOkay, I get it; guard my heart.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut what it actually says is: \u201cMore than you guard anything in the world, protect your heart. Above all else, protect your heart\/guard your heart. Be careful what you let in, because it takes you places.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe world will say, \u201cFollow your heart.\u201d The Scripture teaches us to <em>inform<\/em> our heart before we follow it. You don\u2019t want to follow an uninformed heart. You don\u2019t want to follow your feelings and your emotions, because that\u2019s what you\u2019ve done in every relationship you\u2019ve ever been in; you\u2019ve followed it into the relationship and out of relationship. I think that message is foundational to what we\u2019re doing wrong today when\u00a0 it comes to dating. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That stuff is big; because I hear you and think, \u201cThat is the fun of it. That is\/it\u2019s the highs; it\u2019s the lows; it\u2019s the wondering.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> She\u2019s getting excited. I can see her right now, like the adrenaline rush.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> But here\u2019s what happens\u2014is you\u2019re right\u2014if you don\u2019t have a perspective of why not to do that, you just fall into it. Then, when you say, \u201cBring God into this,\u201d that\u2019s like: \u201cOh, so I\u2019m\/what\u2019s that look like?\u201d We didn\u2019t grow up in the church; so when somebody said, \u201cBring God into it, and don\u2019t give your heart away,\u201d I was so confused by all that terminology: \u201cHow do I bring God in?\u201d and \u201cHow do I not give my heart away when I\u2019ve done that all the time?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou\u2019ve talked to <em>tons<\/em> of people that have done both of those things.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>JP:<\/strong> Yes, I think you have to date with intentionality; but to say: \u201cHey, here\u2019s why I\u2019m here\/this is what I\u2019m doing: I\u2019m not just following my feelings. What I hope to do, over this coffee, is really intentionally find out if we want to have another coffee\/if we want to keep spending time together. I\u2019m going to ask you questions for the purpose of finding out if I want to do this again and really, hopefully to reveal to you, if you want to do this again.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut most people don\u2019t think that; they show up and they say, \u201cMan, I hope I feel something.\u201d That has not gone well for us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You got\/you just used the word, \u201cpurpose.\u201d The first part of you book is: \u201cWhy We Date,\u201d so let\u2019s talk purpose. Number one is: \u201cWhat is dating anyway?\u201d Can you define it? Why would we date?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>JP:<\/strong> Dating is a path to a promise\u2014Simply put: it\u2019s a path to a promise\u2014you\u2019re trying to move in a relationship toward a commitment\/a lifelong commitment. If we apply that to the question, \u201cWhy do we date?\u201d\u2014we date to find a spouse. \u201cWhat if I\u2019m not looking for a spouse?\u201d\u2014then you don\u2019t need to go on a date. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cWell, what if I\u2019m still want to have fun with the opposite sex?\u201d\u2014well, now we\u2019re back to dating for fun. It\u2019s not going to be fun\u2014that\u2019s the irony; that\u2019s the irony\u2014when you date for fun, and you experience the manic highs and the manic lows, it leads to heartbreak, lots of sleepless nights, anxiety, snot-crying in your pillow. [Laughter] That\u2019s where dating for fun goes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut when you date on purpose, it can be a lot of fun: I can see that; I can measure that; I can have conversations around that. Romans 12:9 says: \u201cLove must be sincere.\u201d There\u2019s no games; I\u2019m not left wondering. I always tell guys, \u201cLet me tell you something about girls: \u2018Girls wonder.\u2019\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>JP:<\/strong> They\u2019re like, \u201cWhat do you mean?\u201d \u201cThey wonder if you\u2019re going to call them; they wonder if you\u2019re going to text them; they wonder where this is going; they wonder what you\u2019re thinking.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tPeople say, \u201cWhat does it mean \u2018to lead in dating\u2019?\u201d I say, \u201cLeaders remove confusion. Clarity is kindness; so as much as you can, remove that confusion. As much as you can, lovingly say, \u2018Here\u2019s what I am thinking\u2026\u2019\u201d So much of dating is turning your thoughts into words and being sincere towards one another. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Are you saying, on an early date, the man or the woman should state pretty honestly from the very beginning their intentions? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>JP:<\/strong> I\u2019m saying, \u201cWhat else are they doing there if not trying to find a spouse?\u201d This plays into, especially for parents, as you think about dating in high school. I\u2019ve got kids moving toward high school and just trying to manage those expectations as a parent. I sat my girls down and I said, \u201cListen, this is what dating is. Everybody\u2019s going to do it this way; right?\u2014they just are excited to go to the dance with somebody. You\u2019re going to hear that they\u2019re in love, and you\u2019re going to see the tears, first hand. I want you to take note where those relationships go.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tEverybody\u2014when I say that\u2014wants to tell me about the one high school sweetheart experience they know. I get that\u2014those are there; that\u2019s awesome\u2014I celebrate that like the next person. But what is <em>way <\/em>more common\/<em>exponentially <\/em>more common than that, are the many, many, many, many breakups; because, as Song of Solomon says, we\u2019ve \u201cawakened love before its time.\u201d [Song of Solomon 8:4] We begin to play married; that has <em>not<\/em> gone well for us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> With your kids, are they allowed to have a boyfriend or a girlfriend based on the definition of dating? When does that happen then? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>JP:<\/strong> For us, in our family, we just say we\u2014I\u2019m big on this\u2014\u201cYou date for marriage and Daddy is going to help you. I have your best interest in mind.\u201d I pray every single morning for their spouse; I pray every morning that they would not awaken love before its time; I pray every morning they would not set anything evil before their eyes; and really want to help them.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat I\u2019ve done in the first season of parenting is tried to earn their trust; you know. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[I] just want you to know, like, an, you can trust me. I have your best interest in mind. There are going to be some times in the future, where everything in you says, \u201cYou need to go right,\u201d and I\u2019m going to say, \u201cYou need to go left.\u201d It\u2019s going to feel like an injustice and unfair. But I hope that you will watch those times closely. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMy commitment to you is\u2014I can\u2019t promise you I will always be right\u2014when I\u2019m wrong, I\u2019m going to own it fully; I\u2019m going to ask forgiveness and seek to be reconciled to you. But I really do want to earn your trust.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd this one\u2019s going to be, I think, the hardest is: everyone in your class\/\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>JP:<\/strong> \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u2014all the girls around you are going to go crazy for boys and be talking about them, and you\u2019re going to feel left out. You\u2019re going to feel like you have nothing to contribute and like your parents are strict. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to make sure that we have fun. If there\u2019s a dance that weekend at the school, that everybody\u2019s going crazy about, if we can\/if we have the means, I\u2019m like, \u201cYou know what? I\u2019m taking you to New York that weekend and give you a better alternative.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m always trying to think through: \u201cHow can I give them a better alternative?\u201d That doesn\u2019t have to be expensive. It can be a camping trip; it can be just something that they want to do. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You\u2019re really saying: \u201cI want more for you,\u201d \u201cI want <em>better<\/em> for you.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>JP:<\/strong> That\u2019s what God says to us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>JP:<\/strong> \u201cI want better for you than the world offers.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Are you saying, at 13, you\u2019re not going to let her go to that dance?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>JP:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014or is it her call?\u2014or <em>when<\/em> would you let her go?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>JP:<\/strong> I\u2019m fine with her going to a dance. I think every kid\/it has to be different, based on their level of maturity. That\u2019s a part of, as parents, we have to be students of our children. But if she goes to that dance, I hope she goes in a group and they have fun. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s not like I want my daughter to not be around boys until she\u2019s married to one. I want her to be around boys a lot\u2014but just not in that one-on-one setting\u2014where we know\/I mean, every person over the age of 21, hearing this right now, thinks back to the foolish things you did when you were 18. [Laughter] Hormones are going crazy; you couldn\u2019t wait to get by yourself and just push the envelope. Yes, I want to protect her from that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> JP, the last time you were here, we talked a little bit about your past\/that you feel like you didn\u2019t do this well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>JP:<\/strong> I did not do this well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> What did that look like?\u2014because you\u2019re passionate about it now for reasons.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I got to tell you. One of our researchers, who read through your book and wrote us some notes, said, \u201cI would say the book title should be <em>Everything I Did Wrong So That You Don\u2019t Do It Too. <\/em>[Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>\u00a0<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>JP:<\/strong> That\u2019s right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> She was just saying, \u201cYou were very honest\u201d; and obviously, you were. Tell us what you did wrong.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>JP:<\/strong> There are no perfect parents, as some people would say. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI don\u2019t think I was ever single longer than two weeks since the fifth grade. Most of those relationships were overlapping. I had gone to a university for divorce\u2014because the way that we date is really training for divorce\u2014because you get in a relationship; and when you don\u2019t <em>feel<\/em> in love with them anymore, you get out of a relationship. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen you get in another relationship because you have all the feels\u2014it\u2019s exciting, and it\u2019s fun\u2014you get up in the morning, and your heart beats; you have a reason to live; you\u2019re thinking about them; you\u2019re wondering when they\u2019re going to call; and when they do, your body releases all these endorphins and just a serotonin <em>dump<\/em>\u2014you feel so <em>great<\/em>, like you\u2019re on ecstasy. Then you realize that they do this thing that annoys you and, all of a sudden, all the feels leave. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis is a <em>systematic training<\/em> for divorce. That\u2019s why we go into marriage\u2014and the way that we\u2019ve dated\u2014has <em>taught<\/em> us to get a divorce.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I have never\/have you ever thought of this?!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>JP:<\/strong> No, it\u2019s so true.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You\u2019re right; you\u2019re <em>so<\/em> right. It\u2019s\/it really is: we\u2019re <em>training<\/em> ourselves for divorce.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> In some ways, you\u2019re defining a very, very popular show on TV\u2014that I would love to say, \u201cI never once watched\u201d; but I\u2019ve actually watched a few times\u2014is <em>The Bachelor<\/em>\/<em>The Bachelorette<\/em>. They just sort of <em>model<\/em> that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>JP:<\/strong> Look at the success rate. The show\/it\u2019s been a <em>long-running<\/em> show.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>JP:<\/strong> But you just look at the <em>success rate<\/em> of that show when it\u2019s like: \u201cHey, we\u2019re going to give these compatibility tests. We\u2019re going to create the perfect scenario. We\u2019re going to let you choose from all these people,\u201d and you still get it wrong.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> That\u2019s the model you\u2019re talking about. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>JP:<\/strong> That\u2019s right. Sex at an early age in high school and, really, just then dating becomes a pursuit of that. Now you\u2019re talking about, not just a university that\u2019s training you for a divorce, but a university that\u2019s training you for adultery. But not just sex; then pornography. As I became an adult, I had an extreme addiction to pornography\/daily looking at porn. An addiction to porn is not an addiction to sex; it\u2019s an addiction to variety. There is no room for monogamy for the person who\u2019s addicted to porn; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen I became a Christian. That\u2019s a story in and of itself. I\u2019m at a club; someone invites me to a church. I trust in Christ.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Whoa, whoa, wait! You\u2019ve got to give us a little more: \u201cI\u2019m at a club\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>JP:<\/strong> Yes, I\u2019m at a club. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cand I get invited to church.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>JP:<\/strong> I grew up in church; I went to church school; you know? I went to church three times a week sometimes. Then I went to college. I, because I didn\u2019t have a relationship with Jesus, I did all the crazy things that pagan college students do. Then I graduated somehow; and I\u2019m at this club, 18 years ago. I\u2019m talking to this girl; I say, \u201cWhat are you doing this weekend?\u201d She said, \u201cI\u2019m going to go check out this church tomorrow.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI said, \u201cGreat, pick me up.\u201d She does; so I go, hungover. I sit in the back row, smell like smoke. I had heard the gospel; I had <em>talked<\/em> about the gospel with other people. But the Holy Spirit at that point\u2014she really exits the story\u2014I kept going week, after week, after week, and just really getting beat up\u2014[Laughter]\u2014like sitting in the parking lot, weeping; like, \u201cWhat is wrong with me?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI just\/I was watching these people, legitimately, follow Jesus; and I gave my life to Christ. The Holy Spirit came and just cleaned house. There were things that went away <em>so<\/em> easy: the way that I talked\u2014my language was terrible\u2014He fixed that. I had major anger issues; He fixed that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tPornography\u2014man, that lingered; it just didn\u2019t\u2014I\u2019ve done drugs; I\u2019ve been an alcoholic\u2014<em>nothing<\/em> ripped my life like that [pornography] addiction; it just enslaved me. I have accountability. I begin to experience freedom and healing from that addiction. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI get married\u2014and I say this prayer\u2014the pastor\u2019s up there; we make these crazy promises to each other; you know: \u201c\u2026for better or worse; sickness and health; till death do us part.\u201d He says, \u201cYou may kiss your bride.\u201d We walk down the aisle. Our friends and family are there; they\u2019re applauding. It\u2019s beautiful; she\u2019s beautiful. I hold her in my arms in the foyer\u2014and I say\/I say this prayer\u2014I say, \u201cDear God, thank You for allowing me to escape the consequences of my sin.\u201d I was like, \u201cMan, I got away.\u201d And I was thinking of pornography\/I was thinking of sexual sin. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen I got two years into marriage, and I realized how na\u00efve that prayer was; because I hadn\u2019t escaped the consequences of my sin. It just came in a different way; I had no idea how to love one woman for the rest of my life. I had systematically trained myself that, as soon as I don\u2019t <em>feel<\/em> something, I\u2019m out. I felt <em>so stuck<\/em>, and she felt so <em>stuck<\/em>. We\u2019re looking at each other; and it\u2019s like: \u201cI don\u2019t know? Do I love you? I don\u2019t know anymore. I don\u2019t even know if I <em>like<\/em> you. What do we <em>do<\/em>?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat was a <em>symptom<\/em> of the way that we date. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>JP:<\/strong> That\u2019s what happens. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You carried\u2014you mention in your book\u2014you carried luggage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>JP:<\/strong> I carried the baggage, yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> We\u2019re all standing at the altar, and if we could see behind the reality, we have these bags.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>JP:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> We don\u2019t think we have them. You prayed a prayer, thinking: \u201cI\u2019m glad I escaped that.\u201d And yet,\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>JP:<\/strong> I\u2019m just carrying them with me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014you\u2019ve got more than a carry-on coming on that baby. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think it will be worth talking about that piece more even.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave<\/strong>: Yes, for sure. I know that for Ann and I, our dating relationship was the only relationship, where Christ really was the foundation. I just surrendered my life to Christ; she had done the same thing. It was like a <em>totally<\/em> different experience, because we had a purpose.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>JP:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>It changed <em>everything<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think it changed everything, and the <em>biggest<\/em> thing was we put Jesus in the center. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>JP: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> We\u2019d start a date with prayer; end a date with prayer; put boundaries on the physical relationship. I mean, I had <em>never<\/em> done that; it was <em>radically<\/em> different. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m not saying, if you do that, you\u2019re going to marry that person; but I would challenge the single listener: \u201cPut Jesus at the center of your dating life. You may have never done that before. Get on your knees, right now, and say, \u2018I\u2019m going to surrender this area to my Lord and Savior.\u2019 Trust Him, and it will be a uniquely different experience.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs I sit here now, married 40 years, I know that decision, when we were dating, changed my legacy. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, if it wasn\u2019t clear to you before today, I think the conversation that Dave and Ann Wilson have had today makes it clear that the way we\u2019re doing dating in the \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t21<sup>st<\/sup> century in the United States is not accomplishing what the people, who are dating, want it to accomplish. Dating is broken. Part of the reason is because we\u2019re not approaching the whole issue of dating from a biblical framework. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s what Jonathan Pokluda\u2019s book, <em>Outdated,<\/em> is really all about. It\u2019s a look at how we can think biblically about the subject of dating. Whether you\u2019re in your 20s or 30s, trying to figure out how you can have a dating life that is honoring to God, or maybe you\u2019re dating again after the loss of a spouse or a divorce, you want to have an understanding of dating that is biblical. That\u2019s what JP\u2019s book is all about. Again, it\u2019s called <em>Outdated: Find Love That Lasts When Dating Has Changed. <\/em>You can go to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com, to request your copy of JP\u2019s book, <em>Outdated<\/em>; or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY to get your copy.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, the website is FamilyLifeToday.com. Look for JP Pokluda\u2019s book, <em>Outdated: Find Love That Lasts When Dating Has Changed, <\/em>orcall to request your copy of the book: 1-800-FL-TODAY is our number; 1-800-358-6329; that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, one of the things we know about some of you, as listeners, is that you are people who really have a heart to want to help other people. We know that because some of you have donated to make sure that <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is on the air in your community so that other people can benefit from this program. <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is listener-supported. It\u2019s because of a handful of listeners in your community that you were able to listen to today\u2019s program. If you are one of those folks, who has helped support the ministry of FamilyLife over the years, we want to say, \u201cThank you for that ongoing support. On behalf of your fellow listeners, thank you for making this program possible for us.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you are someone who likes to help other people, earlier this week, we talked with PeggySue Wells and Pam Farrel about <em>The 10 Best Decisions a Single Mom Can Make<\/em>. We want to make copies of that book available to anyone who makes a donation to support the ministry. My thought is: \u201cThis is a great book for you to give to a single mom you know as a way to express love for her and to say, \u2018I\u2019m here to help.\u2019 Make a donation to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>; request your copy of the book, <em>The 10 Best Decisions a Single Mom Can Make<\/em>. We\u2019ll send that to you as your thank-you gift for your support. Not only will your donation be helping others, but having a chance to give away the book to someone you know will be helpful as well.\u201d Let me just say, \u201cThank you, in advance, for your ongoing support of this ministry.\u201d We do appreciate you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe hope you can join us, again, tomorrow when we\u2019re going to talk about the gift of singleness. You know, the Bible talks about singleness as a gift. There are some singles who wonder, \u201cIs it a gift or is it a curse?\u201d We\u2019ll hear what Jonathan Pokluda has to say about that tomorrow. I hope you can join us for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOn behalf of our hosts Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We\u2019ll see you next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHelping you pursue the relationships that matter most.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2021 FamilyLife. 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