{"id":306892,"date":"2021-06-15T07:00:05","date_gmt":"2021-06-15T11:00:05","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/de-cluttering-our-hearts\/"},"modified":"2021-06-15T07:00:05","modified_gmt":"2021-06-15T11:00:05","slug":"de-cluttering-our-hearts","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/de-cluttering-our-hearts\/","title":{"rendered":"De-Cluttering Our Hearts"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>We all understand that material things are not as important as relationships. So, what lies behind the clutter of our lives? On today&#8217;s program, Kathi Lipp offers tips and perspectives to de-clutter our hearts.<br \/>\nShow Notes and Resources<\/p>\n<p> \tGet the book The Clutter-Free Home https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/p-6092-the-clutter-free-home.aspx.<br \/>\n \tDownload the &#8220;Love You Better Plan&#8221; for your chance to win a spot on the 2022 Love Like You Mean It cruise https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/loveyoubetter<br \/>\n \tCheck out the FamilyLife Blended Podcast https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-blended-podcast\/<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>We all understand that material things are not as important as relationships.  So, what lies behind the clutter of our lives?  Kathi Lipp offers tips and perspectives to de-clutter our hearts.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2021-06-15.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:30:19","filesize":"27.76M","filesize_raw":"29110892","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2853,2838,2894],"tags":[6823,4823,6981],"podcast_series":[8449],"cwp_profile":[3627],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-306892","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-frazzled-family","category-mothers","category-stepfamily-living","tag-clutter-free","tag-home","tag-minimalism","podcast_series-clutter-free-home-and-family","cwp_profile-kathi-lipp","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/306892\/de-cluttering-our-hearts","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/306892\/de-cluttering-our-hearts","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"UlZzmiuJw3\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/de-cluttering-our-hearts\/\">De-Cluttering Our Hearts<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/de-cluttering-our-hearts\/embed\/#?secret=UlZzmiuJw3\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;De-Cluttering Our Hearts&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"UlZzmiuJw3\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2021-06-15.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2021-06-15.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Dave: <\/strong>So what\u2019s the most cluttered room in our house?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, no doubt!\u2014our attic.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> There\u2019s a lost city in our attic.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019m surprised it hasn\u2019t fallen into our garage; there\u2019s so much weight up there!\n\nYou know, you just keep adding\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And it\u2019s all your fault.\n\nWelcome to <em>FamilyLife Today, <\/em>where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I\u2019m Ann Wilson.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And I\u2019m Dave Wilson, and you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com or on our FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> app.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em>\n\nOur house wouldn\u2019t be cluttered at all\u2014if I didn\u2019t have kids, if I didn\u2019t have a dog, without a husband\u2014I\u2019d be lonely, but it would be clean\u2014clean and lonely.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It is my fault.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> No, it\u2019s <em>not<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And I can\u2019t even find anything up there. We were up there the other day, and I needed to find that booster seat. I looked for an <em>hour<\/em>; I finally said, \u201cIt\u2019s not up there; we got rid of it.\u201d She goes up and finds it in <em>30 seconds<\/em>! [Laughter] And it was right at the top of the steps!\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> As I said, it is the <em>lost<\/em> city.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And our grandkids came to visit us at Christmas, and the first thing they wanted to do was\u2014they said, \u201cOur dad told us all about your attic!\u201d [Laughter] It was the best part of Christmas that they had! [Laughter] See?\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes, I guess there\u2019s some use for it!\n\nHey, today we\u2019ve got Ron Deal on the show. Ron is from our FamilyLife Blended<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> ministry; it\u2019s an amazing ministry. Ron\u2019s an amazing guy; I love having you here!\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Ron, welcome back to <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em>\n\n<em>\u00a0<\/em>\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Thank you; it\u2019s always good to be here.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So why are we talking about cluttered?\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Well, Kathi Lipp has done a lot of work in helping people declutter their physical space\/their home and declutter their life.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Can she come to our house? [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Now, that I don\u2019t know!\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Is that what she does?\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> If the price is right, I\u2019m sure she could! [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> But it\u2019s been fun already, hearing her talk about what that looks like\u2014\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes, yes.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014decluttering our homes.\n\nBut then, when she gets into the decluttering of our lives, that\u2019s when it gets a little sticky.\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> And it\u2019s one thing to declutter personally; that\u2019s a little bit of what we talked about in the previous program. But today\/now, we\u2019ve got to talk a little bit about decluttering in connection with others\u2014spouses, children\u2014\u201cWhat if you have different opinions about what needs to stay\/what needs to go?\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014or \u201cWhat\u2019s clutter?!\u201d\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Right! Even defining clutter; that can be a problem.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So here is Ron Deal\u2019s conversation with Kathi Lipp, the author of <em>The Clutter-Free Home.<\/em>\n\n[Previous <em>FamilyLife Blended<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup>Podcast]\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Okay, another principle you talk about decluttering: \u201cDon\u2019t argue over stuff; negotiate space.\u201d\n\nKathi:\u00a0Yes, so I think part of it is: \u201cKids, you have your room,\u201d or \u201c\u2026your portion of the room,\u201d\u2014and\u2014\u201cYes, you get to do with it what you want; but you\u2019re still part of a larger unit\/the family that has to work together, so your stuff needs to be contained to your area.\u201d\n\nBut when we had our kids in the living room, with their computers and stuff, I\u2019m like, \u201cOkay, this is not the fantasy room that I wanted. This is not what I wanted it to be, but this is what we need right now. This is your space; but I still get to say, \u2018I need it to look like humans live here. [Laughter] I need it to look like we are all working together.\u2019\u201d\n\nWe would have times, where they would be working on their individual space; but also, times where we had to come together, as a family, and pull together. Some of that was common spaces, some of that was big chores, and things like that.\n\nCan I just tell you?\u2014I\u2019ve made every mistake in the book. I\u2019ve done everything wrong as a stepparent. I love that God gives us grace and, sometimes, a covering in all of that:\u2014\n\nRon:\u00a0Right.\n\nKathi:\u00a0\u2014because we have kids, who like to work hard and like to have spaces that are neat and pulled together, but they also know how to work with other human beings. That makes me <em>super<\/em> proud, even in all of my failings.\n\nRon:\u00a0You know, the word, \u201cnegotiate,\u201d in all of that is so important. It\u2019s: \u201cEverybody gets a voice. We listen to one another, and we try to figure out how to meet in the middle. Sometimes, I give a lot; sometimes, I just compromise a little.\u201d\n\n<strong>Kathi:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> And over the course of time in a family, we all hopefully do a\u00a0little\u00a0of that.\n\nI think, with kids, negotiating space is really metaphorical: \u201cIt\u2019s not just my bedroom; now, I\u2019m sharing a bedroom with another half-sibling;\u201d\u2014or\u2014\u201cstepsibling, so what\u2019s mine?\n\n<strong>Kathi:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> \u201cHave I lost control of <em>everything<\/em> in my life\/in my world? I don\u2019t even get a closet, or a space, or a drawer?\u201d They need something that is\u00a0theirs.\n\n<strong>Kathi:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> That speaks to their belonging\u2014that they matter\/that they haven\u2019t lost control of everything in their world\u2014it\u2019s not just about space. It is about more of that sense of control and belonging.\n\nKathi:\u00a0Right; and also, if we want to grow responsible kids, they need to have something that is theirs to care for\u2014yes, it\u2019s all of that together\u2014and it\u2019s that identity to say: \u201cYes, I\u2019m part of this family, that even I don\u2019t understand sometimes; but who I am in that matters.\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Kathi:<\/strong> \u201cIt matters, not just to my parent of origin, but also to my other person,\u201d\u2014that, in some ways, they can feel like they\u2019ve been forced to live with\u2014but there\u2019s a way to honor that and to say: \u201cEverybody in this matters; we also work together as a team, but we also respect each other as individuals.\u201d\n\nRon:\u00a0Let\u2019s talk about one more principle you talk about in your book,\u00a0The Clutter-Free Home: \u201cThings are not relationships.\u201d\n\n<strong>Kathi:<\/strong> When we\u2019re talking about blended families, I know that\u2014for years, when it came to Christmas and birthdays\u2014I was making up for them being in a blended family. We were overbuying, overspending, over-celebrating. It was my own need to be loved and accepted by these very important people in my life, who I felt so much rejection from.\n\nRoger and I kept on telling each other: \u201cFive years.\u201d We\u2019ve heard from other families that five years can really make a difference. We got to a point\u2014where my stepson would not participate in our wedding; he refused to; he didn\u2019t want to be there; he wouldn\u2019t come to our wedding unless his mom came; it\u2019s a whole bunch of mess!\u2014to the place, where he\u2019s called me for advice; to the place, where he\u2019s gotten off the phone with his dad, to talk to me to find out how I\u2019m doing. I never thought we would get to that place. I had to calm down with the <em>stuff<\/em> and just understand that it takes some time to build into that place.\n\nRon:\u00a0Well, you have really hit on something I think is huge. The anxiety that we feel about how fast the family is coming together tends to just make adults try to push for more togetherness, and that tends to make children pull back from the togetherness; and now, we\u2019re working on opposite agendas\/we\u2019re clashing and creating conflict.\n\nRelaxing, and not letting your anxiety or fear about the family not blending get the best of you\u2014that\u2019s the first step towards saying\u2014\u201cYou know, it\u2019s going to take time. I\u2019ve got to rest into this; and I\u2019ve just got to do what I can do today and trust that, eventually, the relationships can progress.\u201d\n\nKathi:\u00a0It\u2019s so true. I was giving my step-kids way too much control over how my day was going.\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Kathi:<\/strong> What they needed from me was safety and stability. They just needed to know that dinner was going to be on the table at six o\u2019clock. They just needed to know that, when I said I was going to pick them up from hockey practice, that I was going to be there. That\u2019s what they needed from me in those first years. When I could just calm down, and not give them the responsibility of how my day was going, things got a lot better.\n\nRon:\u00a0Yes, that\u2019s great.\n\nOkay, let me turn a corner and ask another question: \u201cFor you, as a stepmom, you were the one who kind of kept the clutter, at least, in the beginning of your blended family. What if we\u2019ve got somebody listening right now, and they are a stepparent\u2014stepdad or stepmom\u2014and they are the only ones who want the house decluttered. What do they do?\u201d\n\nKathi:\u00a0Yes, so this is really important to understand the distinction. Are you doing that because you want your house to be <em>beautiful<\/em>?\u2014or do you want it to be functional? Because beautiful, I think, is a <em>great<\/em> goal; but that doesn\u2019t always translate to everybody else in your family.\n\nIf you can approach it from: \u201cWe need to function as a family; and when there\u2019s a lot of chaos, we can\u2019t function as a family.\u201d Simple things that are not going to be forcing your stepchild to get rid of their stuffed animal\u2014let\u2019s just be clear\u2014none of that am I advocating or okay with.\n\nBut things like, when I would drive the kids home from school, one of the things I learned to do is I would have a garbage and recycling bag in our minivan. I\u2019d say:\n\n\u201cOkay, guys, I want you to unpack your backpacks. If there\u2019s any garbage in there, throw it in the garbage bag. If there\u2019s anything that needs to be recycled, put it in the recycling bag. If you need me to sign a permission slip, if you need me to sign a test that didn\u2019t go so well\u2014whatever it is\u2014make me a stack. I\u2019m going to take those things; I\u2019m going to get into the house, and I\u2019m going to sign and do what we need to: attach the check,\u201d\u2014I don\u2019t even know if people use checks anymore\u2014[Laughter]\u2014\u201cand we\u2019re going to put it back into your backpack to put it back into play.\u201d\n\nI really believe\u2014if you\u2019re the one who\u2019s arguing for being more clutter-free\u2014one, you have to set the example. You can\u2019t just be upset with everybody else\u2019s stuff; because everybody else\u2019s stuff looks like junk, and our stuff looks necessary.\n\nRon:\u00a0Oh, now, you\u2019ve gone to meddling. [Laughter]\n\nKathi:\u00a0Exactly. [Laughter]\n\nRon:\u00a0\u201cMy stuff is <em>not junk<\/em>! It is<em> my<\/em> <em>stuff<\/em>.\u201d [Laughter]\n\nKathi:\u00a0Right! Because you know exactly what everything\u2019s for, and what you\u2019re going to use, and all of that.\n\nRon:\u00a0Yes; right!\n\nKathi:\u00a0I <em>totally<\/em> get it! But also, understand there is a certain amount of clutter that just comes with life and, especially, with kids.\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Kathi:<\/strong> So know that this is for a certain time\/a certain place.\n\nAlso, I got to the point, in a small bit, that I said, \u201cI\u2019m not going to have this chaos forever.\u201d You know what?\u2014\u201cI kind of want to enjoy\u2014while my kids are here, while we get to spend some time together\u2014I want to be able to enjoy this and not be <em>frustrated<\/em> all the time.\u201d\n\nI could have <em>standards<\/em> for the rest of my family that were aspirational. I would only lose my top about really one thing: when I would find clean folded laundry in the hamper. [Laughter] Let\u2019s just say\/yes, it wasn\u2019t pretty.\n\nRon:\u00a0It wasn\u2019t pretty.\n\nKathi:\u00a0It wasn\u2019t pretty.\n\n[Studio]\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You\u2019ve been listening to <em>FamilyLife Today. <\/em>We\u2019ve been listening to Ron Deal with Kathi Lipp, about decluttering our homes. As she was just finishing that, talking about how <em>frustrated<\/em> she was, what were her words, guys?\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> \u201cIt wasn\u2019t pretty!\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u201cIt wasn\u2019t pretty!\u201d [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Why were you laughing at that?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Because <em>that <\/em>drives me crazy\u2014when you have folded, clean laundry at the bottom of the hamper\u2014and that has happened.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It never happened in our home.\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Never!\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Not one time!\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Now, we have denial. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes!\n\nAnd I\u2019m telling you\u2014I think that that\u2019s true\u2014what she\u2019s talking about; like, \u201cOkay; what\u2019s my part? What can I do, and not get frustrated with everyone else; because they\u2019re not doing what I perceive their part as being?\u201d If that makes sense.\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> I loved Kathi\u2019s principles of: \u201cHey, you\u2019re in charge of you,\u201d and \u201cYou\u2019re working this out with other people.\u201d As a parent, you have standards for your kids; but every once in a while, you need to let something slide. You know, there\u2019s a fine line in there; there\u2019s balance to be sought. That\u2019s something we all have to do, because there will be moments when it\u2019s not pretty.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And it\u2019s interesting\u2014like when we have our grandkids over\u2014I\u2019m totally laid-back about them; because I know now: \u201cThey\u2019re going to leave, and it\u2019s all going to be different,\u201d and \u201cI\u2019m going to enjoy the moment.\u201d I think, when our kids were little, it took me a while to learn that.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; because you hated the clutter, and you thought you had to clean it up right away. You realized, \u201cWhen they go to bed, I can clean it up.\u201d\n\nSo here\u2019s the question, Ron, as we listen to the next part: \u201cDoes she apply this to our lives?\u2014to our spiritual lives?\u201d\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes; and you know, we have so much to declutter, spiritually speaking. Sometimes, it\u2019s about resentment or pain, or something in the relationship that just needs to go. That\u2019s the next part of our conversation.\n\n[Previous <em>FamilyLife Blended Podcast<\/em>]\n\nRon:\u00a0Let\u2019s talk about decluttering our heart for a second. When you\u2019ve got resentment built up towards somebody in your home; or maybe, a stepmom has a lot of clutter on her heart towards what we like to call her \u201cex-wife-in-law\u201d\/her husband\u2019s former wife\u2014\n\nKathi:\u00a0Yes.\n\nRon:\u00a0\u2014that stuff gets in the way of you figuring out how to do life together.\n\nKathi:\u00a0I will say this: my stepson was just miserable with me. In his brain, his parents were getting back together, even though everybody in that equation made it very clear that that was never going to happen. I was the roadblock. I have to say, I was really, really frustrated with him for a long time. One of the things I did\u2014and it\u2019s going to sound bad at first, but it actually has led to a great deal of healing\u2014is I have three amazing friends [to whom] I just said, \u201cGuys, I need a safe place to process this without gossiping, knowing that I love my stepson greatly; but I really don\u2019t like him right now.\u201d\n\nI felt so awful, because I was the only blended family person in that whole group. But then they all came out; they\u2019re like: \u201cThis one kid is great; they\u2019re doing what they\u2019re supposed to be doing. My other kid is making me crazy.\u201d We called ourselves \u201cThe Bad Mom\u2019s Club,\u201d [Laughter] because we felt like bad moms; but also, we were putting guidelines and we were putting boundaries in place. We were learning how to do the mom-thing well.\n\nYou know what? It was great; because with these people\u2014I said, \u201cYou have to hold me to the standard that I\u2019m <em>growing<\/em> in love for my stepson; because, if not, none of this is worth it,\u201d\u2014I didn\u2019t always feel that way; let\u2019s be super clear. But they would pray for me; they would ask me how things were going; they would hold me accountable when I\u2019d say: \u201cI need to reach out to Jeremy more; because right now, things are not going well,\u201d \u201cI need to encourage his dad to go on walks with him,\u201d \u201cI need to do\u2026\u201d\u2014all the things.\n\nWhen it came to the ex-wife-in-law\u2014I love that so much! I need to write that down\u2014it was <em>tough<\/em>. I\u2019m just going to be really honest; at one point, we had so much conflict, I told my husband, \u201cI need a year off.\u201d He said, \u201cI support that.\u201d He goes, \u201cI will go to the things.\u201d I still spent plenty of time with my stepkids, but I just didn\u2019t show up where she was showing up. But you can\u2019t take a year off without doing the work on yourself, and I went to counseling.\n\nWe now have a good relationship. When things are going on, and her kids are frustrated with her, I\u2019m actually <em>defending<\/em> her in some ways. To get to that place, it was worth taking the year off and saying, \u201cI need to spend some time to figure this out.\u201d It helped tremendously; it helped everybody.\n\nRon:\u00a0There are so many takeaways in that. Thank you so much for sharing that.\n\nIt, obviously, paid off\u2014\n\nKathi:\u00a0It did pay off.\n\nRon:\u00a0\u2014and you decluttered your heart.\n\n<strong>Kathi:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Wow.\n\nRon:\u00a0I\u2019ve got one more question for you.\n\nKathi:\u00a0Yes, sir.\n\nRon:\u00a0You talk in the book about putting a sign in each room of your house to kind of communicate a purpose and to claim it for a given reason.\n\nKathi:\u00a0Right.\n\nRon:\u00a0Let\u2019s talk about it. Give us some examples\/some practical examples in terms of home. But also, what are some signs you could put in each room of your heart as it relates to your family?\n\nKathi:\u00a0Yes, yes. You know, at some point, I claimed a verse for each of my stepkids. That verse has changed over the years, according to what they need. My stepkids are now grown. My stepdaughter is married; I have an amazing son-in-law that God is knitting together their family, and we get to see that.\n\nMy stepson, who has some learning challenges and things like that\u2014who has perseverance like no other human being I\u2019ve met\u2014the signs that I can put on them\/the Bible verses about perseverance, and loving well, and God knitting their hearts together\u2014it <em>focuses<\/em> your relationship to be able to do that and to say: \u201cI wish so much for these people that God has entrusted me with in a small way.\u201d I\u2019m just a small part of the many people who love my stepkids.\n\nBut I also feel like God has given me the most to learn from them, and they\u2019ve learned a lot by having a relationship with me. We\u2019ve learned how to navigate some really tricky waters that not everybody has to navigate. My kids are better prepared for that.\n\nWhen I think about that, it\u2019s like, \u201cOkay, what verse can I be praying that I would see <em>all <\/em>of God\u2019s fruit in this person that I care so deeply about?\u201d\n\nRon:\u00a0Man, that is such a neat idea\u2014to imagine, as when a child walks in the room\u2014that there\u2019s almost, like hovering above their head, this little verse, or a thought, or a notion that you hold onto for a period of time to just help you get focused about that person and your relationship with them.\n\nKathi:\u00a0And to think about their future. We have a hope that we can pin on them for something better for the future. We have a big God, and we have a lot of capacity to give. If you have stepped into the role of stepparent, even if you haven\u2019t been able to demonstrate it recently, I know that it\u2019s there for you.\n\n[Studio]\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Well, you\u2019ve been listening to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, where we\u2019ve all gotten a chance to listen to Ron Deal\u2019s conversation with Kathi Lipp. I tell you\u2014that last little section there\u2014wow! What a way to view children, and really, to view anybody in your life: an identity that brings life out of them.\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> That was beautiful.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I like the idea of seeing a Scripture, or a placard, or an identity name above each of our children, our friends, our husband or wife; because that\u2019s how God sees us.\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> He doesn\u2019t see the clutter\/the mess. He sees how He made us and the gifts that He put in us. I wonder if Jesus has a verse over each of us? That would be sweet to think about.\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> You know, one of the things I\u2019m putting into practice, as a result of my conversation with Kathi is, when my smartphone dings\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> \u2014it shouts, \u201cImportant!\u201d I have to make a decision: \u201cIs that really important?\u201d\n\nWhat if I put a placard over my wife\u2019s head\/over my son\u2019s head, when he walks into the living room, and I saw the word, \u201cImportant,\u201d over them? How would that make a difference in how I respond?\u2014just the simple little things\u2014the smile on my face; the way I welcome them; the way I turn my attention <em>away <\/em>from the TV, or away from the smartphone, and give them my <em>full <\/em>attention. If I see them as \u201cimportant,\u201d and act accordingly, what a difference that would make.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; we tend\u2014I know I do; I can\u2019t speak for you\u2014but Kathi got into it\u2014stuff. I tend to put a \u201c10\u201d on stuff\u2014\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014and a \u201c3\u201d on people; you know? I should put a \u201c10\u201d on everybody\u2019s forehead,\u2014\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014especially my wife, and my kids, and grandkids; and really, my neighbor as well. That\u2019s what she\u2019s challenged us to do.\n\nSo thanks, Ron! I mean, it was great to have you here!\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes, it was fun to be with you.\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Thanks.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I encourage people to listen to <em>FamilyLife Blended<\/em>, and to listen to your conversations like that. There are a whole bunch of them\u2014\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014and they are life-changing.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You know, I think any of us can look around and see messes somewhere in our home, in our lives, in our heart. Thinking about how we can de-clutter, whether it\u2019s the physical space you\u2019re in or the spiritual space you\u2019re living in, that\u2019s what Dave and Ann have been talking about today with Ron Deal and Kathi Lipp.\n\nKathi has written a book called <em>The Clutter-Free Home: Making Room for Your Life.<\/em> We\u2019ve got copies of her book in our <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>Resource Center. Go online to get your copy; go to FamilyLifeToday.com, or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to get a copy. Again, go to FamilyLifeToday.com to look for <em>The Clutter-Free Home <\/em>from Kathi Lipp; or order a copy when you call 1-800-358-6329; that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\nBy the way, if you\u2019re not already subscribed to or regularly listening to Ron Deal\u2019s podcast, <em>FamilyLife Blended, <\/em>again, go to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com; there\u2019s a link there. Sign up, subscribe, listen in. The podcast is called <em>FamilyLife Blended <\/em>with Ron Deal<em>. <\/em>It\u2019s a great podcast; I\u2019d encourage you to check it out.\n\nNow, I don\u2019t know if you\u2019ve ever wished there was like a Home Depot<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> or a Lowe\u2019s<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> for marriage, so that when there\u2019s a do-it-yourself project, you could go find the supplies and get things patched up in your marriage. I think Home Depot used to have this slogan: \u201cYou can do it. We can help.\u201d That\u2019s how we feel about marriage. In fact, our team has put together something that we call the \u201cLove You Better Plan.\u201d It\u2019s a 30-day exercise you can go through to help you tackle some of those marriage improvement projects that I think all of us need from time to time.\n\nThe \u201cLove You Better Plan\u201d is a free resource. Each day, there\u2019s a tip for how to better improve your marriage. It\u2019s got concepts and resources that can help bring you closer together. And here\u2019s something really exciting: when you download the \u201cLove You Better Plan\u201d from FamilyLife\u2014again, it\u2019s free\u2014you are automatically registered for an opportunity to win a cabin on the <em>Love Like You Mean It<\/em> marriage cruise in 2022.\n\nWe\u2019re heading out in February\u2014Valentine\u2019s week\u2014on the 2022 <em>Love Like You Mean It<\/em> marriage cruise; and somebody, who downloads the \u201cLove You Better Plan,\u201d is going to get a chance to go with us. Go to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com; all the information you need is available there; you can download from there. Again, you\u2019re automatically registered at that point for an opportunity to win a cabin on the <em>Love Like You Mean It<\/em> marriage cruise in 2022. The website, again: FamilyLifeToday.com.\n\nNow, tomorrow, we\u2019re going to get a chance to connect with one of our favorite funny people. Michael Jr.\u2019s going to be here with us, and we\u2019re going to hear from him about the connection between living a life with purpose and doing stand-up comedy. Trust me; there is a connection. Michael joins us to talk about that tomorrow. I hope you can join us as well.\n\nOn behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back tomorrow for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\n<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry.\n\nHelping you pursue the relationships that matter most.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\nWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\nCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2021 FamilyLife. 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all understand that material things are not as important as relationships. So, what lies behind the clutter of our lives? Kathi Lipp offers tips and perspectives to de-clutter our hearts.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2021-06-15.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Dave: <\/strong>So what\u2019s the most cluttered room in our house?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, no doubt!\u2014our attic.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> There\u2019s a lost city in our attic.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019m surprised it hasn\u2019t fallen into our garage; there\u2019s so much weight up there!\n\nYou know, you just keep adding\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And it\u2019s all your fault.\n\nWelcome to <em>FamilyLife Today, <\/em>where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I\u2019m Ann Wilson.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And I\u2019m Dave Wilson, and you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com or on our FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> app.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em>\n\nOur house wouldn\u2019t be cluttered at all\u2014if I didn\u2019t have kids, if I didn\u2019t have a dog, without a husband\u2014I\u2019d be lonely, but it would be clean\u2014clean and lonely.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It is my fault.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> No, it\u2019s <em>not<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And I can\u2019t even find anything up there. We were up there the other day, and I needed to find that booster seat. I looked for an <em>hour<\/em>; I finally said, \u201cIt\u2019s not up there; we got rid of it.\u201d She goes up and finds it in <em>30 seconds<\/em>! [Laughter] And it was right at the top of the steps!\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> As I said, it is the <em>lost<\/em> city.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And our grandkids came to visit us at Christmas, and the first thing they wanted to do was\u2014they said, \u201cOur dad told us all about your attic!\u201d [Laughter] It was the best part of Christmas that they had! [Laughter] See?\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes, I guess there\u2019s some use for it!\n\nHey, today we\u2019ve got Ron Deal on the show. Ron is from our FamilyLife Blended<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> ministry; it\u2019s an amazing ministry. Ron\u2019s an amazing guy; I love having you here!\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Ron, welcome back to <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em>\n\n<em>\u00a0<\/em>\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Thank you; it\u2019s always good to be here.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So why are we talking about cluttered?\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Well, Kathi Lipp has done a lot of work in helping people declutter their physical space\/their home and declutter their life.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Can she come to our house? [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Now, that I don\u2019t know!\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Is that what she does?\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> If the price is right, I\u2019m sure she could! [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> But it\u2019s been fun already, hearing her talk about what that looks like\u2014\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes, yes.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014decluttering our homes.\n\nBut then, when she gets into the decluttering of our lives, that\u2019s when it gets a little sticky.\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> And it\u2019s one thing to declutter personally; that\u2019s a little bit of what we talked about in the previous program. But today\/now, we\u2019ve got to talk a little bit about decluttering in connection with others\u2014spouses, children\u2014\u201cWhat if you have different opinions about what needs to stay\/what needs to go?\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014or \u201cWhat\u2019s clutter?!\u201d\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Right! Even defining clutter; that can be a problem.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So here is Ron Deal\u2019s conversation with Kathi Lipp, the author of <em>The Clutter-Free Home.<\/em>\n\n[Previous <em>FamilyLife Blended<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup>Podcast]\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Okay, another principle you talk about decluttering: \u201cDon\u2019t argue over stuff; negotiate space.\u201d\n\nKathi:\u00a0Yes, so I think part of it is: \u201cKids, you have your room,\u201d or \u201c\u2026your portion of the room,\u201d\u2014and\u2014\u201cYes, you get to do with it what you want; but you\u2019re still part of a larger unit\/the family that has to work together, so your stuff needs to be contained to your area.\u201d\n\nBut when we had our kids in the living room, with their computers and stuff, I\u2019m like, \u201cOkay, this is not the fantasy room that I wanted. This is not what I wanted it to be, but this is what we need right now. This is your space; but I still get to say, \u2018I need it to look like humans live here. [Laughter] I need it to look like we are all working together.\u2019\u201d\n\nWe would have times, where they would be working on their individual space; but also, times where we had to come together, as a family, and pull together. Some of that was common spaces, some of that was big chores, and things like that.\n\nCan I just tell you?\u2014I\u2019ve made every mistake in the book. I\u2019ve done everything wrong as a stepparent. I love that God gives us grace and, sometimes, a covering in all of that:\u2014\n\nRon:\u00a0Right.\n\nKathi:\u00a0\u2014because we have kids, who like to work hard and like to have spaces that are neat and pulled together, but they also know how to work with other human beings. That makes me <em>super<\/em> proud, even in all of my failings.\n\nRon:\u00a0You know, the word, \u201cnegotiate,\u201d in all of that is so important. It\u2019s: \u201cEverybody gets a voice. We listen to one another, and we try to figure out how to meet in the middle. Sometimes, I give a lot; sometimes, I just compromise a little.\u201d\n\n<strong>Kathi:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> And over the course of time in a family, we all hopefully do a\u00a0little\u00a0of that.\n\nI think, with kids, negotiating space is really metaphorical: \u201cIt\u2019s not just my bedroom; now, I\u2019m sharing a bedroom with another half-sibling;\u201d\u2014or\u2014\u201cstepsibling, so what\u2019s mine?\n\n<strong>Kathi:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> \u201cHave I lost control of <em>everything<\/em> in my life\/in my world? I don\u2019t even get a closet, or a space, or a drawer?\u201d They need something that is\u00a0theirs.\n\n<strong>Kathi:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> That speaks to their belonging\u2014that they matter\/that they haven\u2019t lost control of everything in their world\u2014it\u2019s not just about space. It is about more of that sense of control and belonging.\n\nKathi:\u00a0Right; and also, if we want to grow responsible kids, they need to have something that is theirs to care for\u2014yes, it\u2019s all of that together\u2014and it\u2019s that identity to say: \u201cYes, I\u2019m part of this family, that even I don\u2019t understand sometimes; but who I am in that matters.\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Kathi:<\/strong> \u201cIt matters, not just to my parent of origin, but also to my other person,\u201d\u2014that, in some ways, they can feel like they\u2019ve been forced to live with\u2014but there\u2019s a way to honor that and to say: \u201cEverybody in this matters; we also work together as a team, but we also respect each other as individuals.\u201d\n\nRon:\u00a0Let\u2019s talk about one more principle you talk about in your book,\u00a0The Clutter-Free Home: \u201cThings are not relationships.\u201d\n\n<strong>Kathi:<\/strong> When we\u2019re talking about blended families, I know that\u2014for years, when it came to Christmas and birthdays\u2014I was making up for them being in a blended family. We were overbuying, overspending, over-celebrating. It was my own need to be loved and accepted by these very important people in my life, who I felt so much rejection from.\n\nRoger and I kept on telling each other: \u201cFive years.\u201d We\u2019ve heard from other families that five years can really make a difference. We got to a point\u2014where my stepson would not participate in our wedding; he refused to; he didn\u2019t want to be there; he wouldn\u2019t come to our wedding unless his mom came; it\u2019s a whole bunch of mess!\u2014to the place, where he\u2019s called me for advice; to the place, where he\u2019s gotten off the phone with his dad, to talk to me to find out how I\u2019m doing. I never thought we would get to that place. I had to calm down with the <em>stuff<\/em> and just understand that it takes some time to build into that place.\n\nRon:\u00a0Well, you have really hit on something I think is huge. The anxiety that we feel about how fast the family is coming together tends to just make adults try to push for more togetherness, and that tends to make children pull back from the togetherness; and now, we\u2019re working on opposite agendas\/we\u2019re clashing and creating conflict.\n\nRelaxing, and not letting your anxiety or fear about the family not blending get the best of you\u2014that\u2019s the first step towards saying\u2014\u201cYou know, it\u2019s going to take time. I\u2019ve got to rest into this; and I\u2019ve just got to do what I can do today and trust that, eventually, the relationships can progress.\u201d\n\nKathi:\u00a0It\u2019s so true. I was giving my step-kids way too much control over how my day was going.\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Kathi:<\/strong> What they needed from me was safety and stability. They just needed to know that dinner was going to be on the table at six o\u2019clock. They just needed to know that, when I said I was going to pick them up from hockey practice, that I was going to be there. That\u2019s what they needed from me in those first years. When I could just calm down, and not give them the responsibility of how my day was going, things got a lot better.\n\nRon:\u00a0Yes, that\u2019s great.\n\nOkay, let me turn a corner and ask another question: \u201cFor you, as a stepmom, you were the one who kind of kept the clutter, at least, in the beginning of your blended family. What if we\u2019ve got somebody listening right now, and they are a stepparent\u2014stepdad or stepmom\u2014and they are the only ones who want the house decluttered. What do they do?\u201d\n\nKathi:\u00a0Yes, so this is really important to understand the distinction. Are you doing that because you want your house to be <em>beautiful<\/em>?\u2014or do you want it to be functional? Because beautiful, I think, is a <em>great<\/em> goal; but that doesn\u2019t always translate to everybody else in your family.\n\nIf you can approach it from: \u201cWe need to function as a family; and when there\u2019s a lot of chaos, we can\u2019t function as a family.\u201d Simple things that are not going to be forcing your stepchild to get rid of their stuffed animal\u2014let\u2019s just be clear\u2014none of that am I advocating or okay with.\n\nBut things like, when I would drive the kids home from school, one of the things I learned to do is I would have a garbage and recycling bag in our minivan. I\u2019d say:\n\n\u201cOkay, guys, I want you to unpack your backpacks. If there\u2019s any garbage in there, throw it in the garbage bag. If there\u2019s anything that needs to be recycled, put it in the recycling bag. If you need me to sign a permission slip, if you need me to sign a test that didn\u2019t go so well\u2014whatever it is\u2014make me a stack. I\u2019m going to take those things; I\u2019m going to get into the house, and I\u2019m going to sign and do what we need to: attach the check,\u201d\u2014I don\u2019t even know if people use checks anymore\u2014[Laughter]\u2014\u201cand we\u2019re going to put it back into your backpack to put it back into play.\u201d\n\nI really believe\u2014if you\u2019re the one who\u2019s arguing for being more clutter-free\u2014one, you have to set the example. You can\u2019t just be upset with everybody else\u2019s stuff; because everybody else\u2019s stuff looks like junk, and our stuff looks necessary.\n\nRon:\u00a0Oh, now, you\u2019ve gone to meddling. [Laughter]\n\nKathi:\u00a0Exactly. [Laughter]\n\nRon:\u00a0\u201cMy stuff is <em>not junk<\/em>! It is<em> my<\/em> <em>stuff<\/em>.\u201d [Laughter]\n\nKathi:\u00a0Right! Because you know exactly what everything\u2019s for, and what you\u2019re going to use, and all of that.\n\nRon:\u00a0Yes; right!\n\nKathi:\u00a0I <em>totally<\/em> get it! But also, understand there is a certain amount of clutter that just comes with life and, especially, with kids.\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Kathi:<\/strong> So know that this is for a certain time\/a certain place.\n\nAlso, I got to the point, in a small bit, that I said, \u201cI\u2019m not going to have this chaos forever.\u201d You know what?\u2014\u201cI kind of want to enjoy\u2014while my kids are here, while we get to spend some time together\u2014I want to be able to enjoy this and not be <em>frustrated<\/em> all the time.\u201d\n\nI could have <em>standards<\/em> for the rest of my family that were aspirational. I would only lose my top about really one thing: when I would find clean folded laundry in the hamper. [Laughter] Let\u2019s just say\/yes, it wasn\u2019t pretty.\n\nRon:\u00a0It wasn\u2019t pretty.\n\nKathi:\u00a0It wasn\u2019t pretty.\n\n[Studio]\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You\u2019ve been listening to <em>FamilyLife Today. <\/em>We\u2019ve been listening to Ron Deal with Kathi Lipp, about decluttering our homes. As she was just finishing that, talking about how <em>frustrated<\/em> she was, what were her words, guys?\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> \u201cIt wasn\u2019t pretty!\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u201cIt wasn\u2019t pretty!\u201d [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Why were you laughing at that?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Because <em>that <\/em>drives me crazy\u2014when you have folded, clean laundry at the bottom of the hamper\u2014and that has happened.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It never happened in our home.\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Never!\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Not one time!\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Now, we have denial. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes!\n\nAnd I\u2019m telling you\u2014I think that that\u2019s true\u2014what she\u2019s talking about; like, \u201cOkay; what\u2019s my part? What can I do, and not get frustrated with everyone else; because they\u2019re not doing what I perceive their part as being?\u201d If that makes sense.\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> I loved Kathi\u2019s principles of: \u201cHey, you\u2019re in charge of you,\u201d and \u201cYou\u2019re working this out with other people.\u201d As a parent, you have standards for your kids; but every once in a while, you need to let something slide. You know, there\u2019s a fine line in there; there\u2019s balance to be sought. That\u2019s something we all have to do, because there will be moments when it\u2019s not pretty.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And it\u2019s interesting\u2014like when we have our grandkids over\u2014I\u2019m totally laid-back about them; because I know now: \u201cThey\u2019re going to leave, and it\u2019s all going to be different,\u201d and \u201cI\u2019m going to enjoy the moment.\u201d I think, when our kids were little, it took me a while to learn that.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; because you hated the clutter, and you thought you had to clean it up right away. You realized, \u201cWhen they go to bed, I can clean it up.\u201d\n\nSo here\u2019s the question, Ron, as we listen to the next part: \u201cDoes she apply this to our lives?\u2014to our spiritual lives?\u201d\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes; and you know, we have so much to declutter, spiritually speaking. Sometimes, it\u2019s about resentment or pain, or something in the relationship that just needs to go. That\u2019s the next part of our conversation.\n\n[Previous <em>FamilyLife Blended Podcast<\/em>]\n\nRon:\u00a0Let\u2019s talk about decluttering our heart for a second. When you\u2019ve got resentment built up towards somebody in your home; or maybe, a stepmom has a lot of clutter on her heart towards what we like to call her \u201cex-wife-in-law\u201d\/her husband\u2019s former wife\u2014\n\nKathi:\u00a0Yes.\n\nRon:\u00a0\u2014that stuff gets in the way of you figuring out how to do life together.\n\nKathi:\u00a0I will say this: my stepson was just miserable with me. In his brain, his parents were getting back together, even though everybody in that equation made it very clear that that was never going to happen. I was the roadblock. I have to say, I was really, really frustrated with him for a long time. One of the things I did\u2014and it\u2019s going to sound bad at first, but it actually has led to a great deal of healing\u2014is I have three amazing friends [to whom] I just said, \u201cGuys, I need a safe place to process this without gossiping, knowing that I love my stepson greatly; but I really don\u2019t like him right now.\u201d\n\nI felt so awful, because I was the only blended family person in that whole group. But then they all came out; they\u2019re like: \u201cThis one kid is great; they\u2019re doing what they\u2019re supposed to be doing. My other kid is making me crazy.\u201d We called ourselves \u201cThe Bad Mom\u2019s Club,\u201d [Laughter] because we felt like bad moms; but also, we were putting guidelines and we were putting boundaries in place. We were learning how to do the mom-thing well.\n\nYou know what? It was great; because with these people\u2014I said, \u201cYou have to hold me to the standard that I\u2019m <em>growing<\/em> in love for my stepson; because, if not, none of this is worth it,\u201d\u2014I didn\u2019t always feel that way; let\u2019s be super clear. But they would pray for me; they would ask me how things were going; they would hold me accountable when I\u2019d say: \u201cI need to reach out to Jeremy more; because right now, things are not going well,\u201d \u201cI need to encourage his dad to go on walks with him,\u201d \u201cI need to do\u2026\u201d\u2014all the things.\n\nWhen it came to the ex-wife-in-law\u2014I love that so much! I need to write that down\u2014it was <em>tough<\/em>. I\u2019m just going to be really honest; at one point, we had so much conflict, I told my husband, \u201cI need a year off.\u201d He said, \u201cI support that.\u201d He goes, \u201cI will go to the things.\u201d I still spent plenty of time with my stepkids, but I just didn\u2019t show up where she was showing up. But you can\u2019t take a year off without doing the work on yourself, and I went to counseling.\n\nWe now have a good relationship. When things are going on, and her kids are frustrated with her, I\u2019m actually <em>defending<\/em> her in some ways. To get to that place, it was worth taking the year off and saying, \u201cI need to spend some time to figure this out.\u201d It helped tremendously; it helped everybody.\n\nRon:\u00a0There are so many takeaways in that. Thank you so much for sharing that.\n\nIt, obviously, paid off\u2014\n\nKathi:\u00a0It did pay off.\n\nRon:\u00a0\u2014and you decluttered your heart.\n\n<strong>Kathi:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Wow.\n\nRon:\u00a0I\u2019ve got one more question for you.\n\nKathi:\u00a0Yes, sir.\n\nRon:\u00a0You talk in the book about putting a sign in each room of your house to kind of communicate a purpose and to claim it for a given reason.\n\nKathi:\u00a0Right.\n\nRon:\u00a0Let\u2019s talk about it. Give us some examples\/some practical examples in terms of home. But also, what are some signs you could put in each room of your heart as it relates to your family?\n\nKathi:\u00a0Yes, yes. You know, at some point, I claimed a verse for each of my stepkids. That verse has changed over the years, according to what they need. My stepkids are now grown. My stepdaughter is married; I have an amazing son-in-law that God is knitting together their family, and we get to see that.\n\nMy stepson, who has some learning challenges and things like that\u2014who has perseverance like no other human being I\u2019ve met\u2014the signs that I can put on them\/the Bible verses about perseverance, and loving well, and God knitting their hearts together\u2014it <em>focuses<\/em> your relationship to be able to do that and to say: \u201cI wish so much for these people that God has entrusted me with in a small way.\u201d I\u2019m just a small part of the many people who love my stepkids.\n\nBut I also feel like God has given me the most to learn from them, and they\u2019ve learned a lot by having a relationship with me. We\u2019ve learned how to navigate some really tricky waters that not everybody has to navigate. My kids are better prepared for that.\n\nWhen I think about that, it\u2019s like, \u201cOkay, what verse can I be praying that I would see <em>all <\/em>of God\u2019s fruit in this person that I care so deeply about?\u201d\n\nRon:\u00a0Man, that is such a neat idea\u2014to imagine, as when a child walks in the room\u2014that there\u2019s almost, like hovering above their head, this little verse, or a thought, or a notion that you hold onto for a period of time to just help you get focused about that person and your relationship with them.\n\nKathi:\u00a0And to think about their future. We have a hope that we can pin on them for something better for the future. We have a big God, and we have a lot of capacity to give. If you have stepped into the role of stepparent, even if you haven\u2019t been able to demonstrate it recently, I know that it\u2019s there for you.\n\n[Studio]\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Well, you\u2019ve been listening to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, where we\u2019ve all gotten a chance to listen to Ron Deal\u2019s conversation with Kathi Lipp. I tell you\u2014that last little section there\u2014wow! What a way to view children, and really, to view anybody in your life: an identity that brings life out of them.\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> That was beautiful.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I like the idea of seeing a Scripture, or a placard, or an identity name above each of our children, our friends, our husband or wife; because that\u2019s how God sees us.\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> He doesn\u2019t see the clutter\/the mess. He sees how He made us and the gifts that He put in us. I wonder if Jesus has a verse over each of us? That would be sweet to think about.\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> You know, one of the things I\u2019m putting into practice, as a result of my conversation with Kathi is, when my smartphone dings\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> \u2014it shouts, \u201cImportant!\u201d I have to make a decision: \u201cIs that really important?\u201d\n\nWhat if I put a placard over my wife\u2019s head\/over my son\u2019s head, when he walks into the living room, and I saw the word, \u201cImportant,\u201d over them? How would that make a difference in how I respond?\u2014just the simple little things\u2014the smile on my face; the way I welcome them; the way I turn my attention <em>away <\/em>from the TV, or away from the smartphone, and give them my <em>full <\/em>attention. If I see them as \u201cimportant,\u201d and act accordingly, what a difference that would make.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; we tend\u2014I know I do; I can\u2019t speak for you\u2014but Kathi got into it\u2014stuff. I tend to put a \u201c10\u201d on stuff\u2014\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014and a \u201c3\u201d on people; you know? I should put a \u201c10\u201d on everybody\u2019s forehead,\u2014\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014especially my wife, and my kids, and grandkids; and really, my neighbor as well. That\u2019s what she\u2019s challenged us to do.\n\nSo thanks, Ron! I mean, it was great to have you here!\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes, it was fun to be with you.\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> Thanks.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I encourage people to listen to <em>FamilyLife Blended<\/em>, and to listen to your conversations like that. There are a whole bunch of them\u2014\n\n<strong>Ron:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014and they are life-changing.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You know, I think any of us can look around and see messes somewhere in our home, in our lives, in our heart. Thinking about how we can de-clutter, whether it\u2019s the physical space you\u2019re in or the spiritual space you\u2019re living in, that\u2019s what Dave and Ann have been talking about today with Ron Deal and Kathi Lipp.\n\nKathi has written a book called <em>The Clutter-Free Home: Making Room for Your Life.<\/em> We\u2019ve got copies of her book in our <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>Resource Center. Go online to get your copy; go to FamilyLifeToday.com, or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to get a copy. Again, go to FamilyLifeToday.com to look for <em>The Clutter-Free Home <\/em>from Kathi Lipp; or order a copy when you call 1-800-358-6329; that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\nBy the way, if you\u2019re not already subscribed to or regularly listening to Ron Deal\u2019s podcast, <em>FamilyLife Blended, <\/em>again, go to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com; there\u2019s a link there. Sign up, subscribe, listen in. The podcast is called <em>FamilyLife Blended <\/em>with Ron Deal<em>. <\/em>It\u2019s a great podcast; I\u2019d encourage you to check it out.\n\nNow, I don\u2019t know if you\u2019ve ever wished there was like a Home Depot<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> or a Lowe\u2019s<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> for marriage, so that when there\u2019s a do-it-yourself project, you could go find the supplies and get things patched up in your marriage. I think Home Depot used to have this slogan: \u201cYou can do it. We can help.\u201d That\u2019s how we feel about marriage. In fact, our team has put together something that we call the \u201cLove You Better Plan.\u201d It\u2019s a 30-day exercise you can go through to help you tackle some of those marriage improvement projects that I think all of us need from time to time.\n\nThe \u201cLove You Better Plan\u201d is a free resource. Each day, there\u2019s a tip for how to better improve your marriage. It\u2019s got concepts and resources that can help bring you closer together. And here\u2019s something really exciting: when you download the \u201cLove You Better Plan\u201d from FamilyLife\u2014again, it\u2019s free\u2014you are automatically registered for an opportunity to win a cabin on the <em>Love Like You Mean It<\/em> marriage cruise in 2022.\n\nWe\u2019re heading out in February\u2014Valentine\u2019s week\u2014on the 2022 <em>Love Like You Mean It<\/em> marriage cruise; and somebody, who downloads the \u201cLove You Better Plan,\u201d is going to get a chance to go with us. Go to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com; all the information you need is available there; you can download from there. Again, you\u2019re automatically registered at that point for an opportunity to win a cabin on the <em>Love Like You Mean It<\/em> marriage cruise in 2022. The website, again: FamilyLifeToday.com.\n\nNow, tomorrow, we\u2019re going to get a chance to connect with one of our favorite funny people. Michael Jr.\u2019s going to be here with us, and we\u2019re going to hear from him about the connection between living a life with purpose and doing stand-up comedy. Trust me; there is a connection. Michael joins us to talk about that tomorrow. I hope you can join us as well.\n\nOn behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back tomorrow for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\n<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry.\n\nHelping you pursue the relationships that matter most.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\nWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\nCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2021 FamilyLife. 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