{"id":306865,"date":"2021-06-02T07:00:04","date_gmt":"2021-06-02T11:00:04","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/running-to-the-roar\/"},"modified":"2025-05-13T16:54:59","modified_gmt":"2025-05-13T20:54:59","slug":"running-to-the-roar","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/running-to-the-roar\/","title":{"rendered":"Running to the Roar"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>It&#8217;s easy to want to run away from things that we face in our grief, but Levi and Jennie Lusko contend that, with God&#8217;s help, walking into what seems so scary can produce the greatest healing.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>It&#8217;s easy to want to run away from things that we face in our grief, but Levi and Jennie Lusko contend that, with God&#8217;s help, walking into what seems so scary can produce the greatest healing.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"audio","audio_file":"https:\/\/fltoday.s3.us-east-1.amazonaws.com\/fl2021-06-02.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:","filesize":"28.19M","filesize_raw":"29556839","date_recorded":"2021-06-02 07:00:04","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2860,2845,2879],"tags":[4299,4457,2877,2209],"podcast_series":[8445],"cwp_profile":[9712],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-306865","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-hardship-and-suffering","category-loss-of-a-child-life-issues","category-loss-of-a-child","tag-faith","tag-loss-of-a-child","tag-marriage","tag-parenting","podcast_series-through-the-eyes-of-a-lion","cwp_profile-levi-and-jennie-lusko","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/306865\/running-to-the-roar","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/306865\/running-to-the-roar","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"vomsLp8r26\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/running-to-the-roar\/\">Running to the Roar<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/running-to-the-roar\/embed\/#?secret=vomsLp8r26\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Running to the Roar&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"vomsLp8r26\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/fltoday.s3.us-east-1.amazonaws.com\/fl2021-06-02.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<p><b>Ann: <\/b>Okay, Dave; so you and your mom had an interesting ritual every Sunday. Tell us about it.<\/p>\n<p><b>Dave:<\/b> We would go to church; we\u2019d drive to the cemetery; we\u2019d look at my brother\u2019s grave.<\/p>\n<p><b>Ann:<\/b> Welcome to <i>FamilyLife Today<\/i>,<i> <\/i>where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I\u2019m Ann Wilson.<\/p>\n<p><b>Dave:<\/b> And I\u2019m Dave Wilson, and you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com or on our FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> app.<\/p>\n<p><b>Ann: <\/b>This is <i>FamilyLife Today.<\/i><span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>\u2014every Sunday?<\/p>\n<p><b>Dave:<\/b> As much as I can remember every Sunday.<\/p>\n<p><b>Ann:<\/b> How old were you the first time?<\/p>\n<p><b>Dave:<\/b> You know, 10\/11; I was 7 when he died.<\/p>\n<p><b>Ann:<\/b> \u2014and he was five.<\/p>\n<p><b>Dave:<\/b> Then my mom and dad were divorced. I can see myself standing right there, right now, looking down at his grave. It was a weird feeling; because you\u2019re like, \u201cHe\u2019s not there.\u201d My mom\u2019s crying. I\u2019m sort of in denial\u2014but feeling pain, as a young, young boy\u2014I didn\u2019t understand it. I just thought God had avoided or left our family.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>Today, we get to talk to a couple of parents, who have lost a daughter, and wrote a book called <i>Through the Eyes of a Lion<\/i>\u2014Levi and Jennie Lusko.<\/p>\n<p><b>Ann:<\/b> Welcome back, you guys.<\/p>\n<p><b>Jennie:<\/b> Thank you.<\/p>\n<p><b>Levi:<\/b> Thank you for having us.<\/p>\n<p><b>Dave:<\/b> It\u2019s been great walking through this journey with you. Your book\u2019s been a powerful resource. You\u2019re pastors at Fresh Life Church out in Montana and authors of all kinds of books. We\u2019re not going to get into all the other books right now; we could have you back and talk about all kinds of stuff.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>Let\u2019s talk a little bit; you know, we spent the last couple of times talking about your journey to be pastors, start Fresh Life, and then the death of your daughter when she was five years old. But talk about where God is in those moments; because as you just heard a little bit of my story\u2014I\u2019m seven years old; I lose my little brother and then\/actually, my parents got divorced, and then I lost my brother\u2014just all about in a six-month period.<\/p>\n<p><b>Levi:<\/b> Aw, man!<\/p>\n<p><b>Dave:<\/b> He got leukemia, and within six\/eight weeks was just gone, and we had just moved. My mom is now a single mom; I\u2019m a little boy, and I pretty much turn away from God, thinking, \u201cIf that\u2019s who God is,\u201d\u2014mom and dad divorce; brother dies\u2014\"He must not care; He must not be here.\u201d Obviously, years later, I have a totally different perspective on that; but that\u2019s where I was at the moment.<\/p>\n<p><b>Jennie:<\/b> Wow.<\/p>\n<p><b>Dave:<\/b> I watched my mom struggle for years; but at the same time, she never lost her faith. She really held onto a strong faith in God.<\/p>\n<p><b>Ann:<\/b> I think she got stronger, actually,\u2014<\/p>\n<p><b>Dave:<\/b> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><b>Ann:<\/b> \u2014in the midst of it; because she was desperate for God. She needed Him.<\/p>\n<p><b>Dave:<\/b> Yes\u2014and yet, you know, for me, as a brother\u2014but for my mom and dad, as parents, oh man, you\u2019re supposed to die before your kids. It\u2019s just sort of the way it\u2019s supposed to go, and that didn\u2019t happen. You\u2019ve been there; you <i>are<\/i> there.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>Talk about your perspective or help people to understand God didn\u2019t leave\u2014God\u2019s right there\u2014but it\u2019s <i>dark<\/i>, and it\u2019s a devastating loss. How do you have a theology of suffering and growing in suffering when bad things like this happen?<\/p>\n<p><b>Levi:<\/b> We\u2019ve always had a very big robust God in our theology\u2014and a big God, who is sovereign, and knows the end from the beginning, and speaks and stars are created, and is triumphant and is resurrected\u2014He\u2019s defeated death. Our understanding of life [is] formed by God and not vice versa. We don\u2019t look at life, and pain, and challenge, and then determine our theology. We start with who God is\u2014and then, as A. W. Tozer says\u2014\u201cWhat a man thinks of when he thinks of God is the most important thing about him.\u201d<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>So that big God then, we then look through that lens to this life. I think it\u2019s really important, because it will allow you to believe your beliefs and doubt your doubts. He\u2019s God; He\u2019s King. And like Peter said to him in John 6, \u201cYou alone have eternal life. Who else are we going to go to? Who else offers what you have?\u201d<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>That doesn\u2019t make it easy to hurt; that doesn\u2019t make it easy to suffer; but what it does do is it changes the conclusions you come to. You see the same data; you see the same reality, but you just know that\u2019s not the end of the story. You know that there\u2019s also glory. There\u2019s\u2014like Paul said\u2014this great weight of suffering\/it becomes like a small and insignificant thing when I compare it to the weight of glory. I think that\u2019s kind of what is factored into us looking at these things a little bit differently than maybe we would have if there wasn\u2019t a big God in our story.<\/p>\n<p><b>Dave:<\/b> One of the powerful concepts in the book that I\u2019ve stolen, Levi\u2014as a preacher and plagiarized and taught your concept\u2014<\/p>\n<p><b>Ann:<\/b> No, you always gave him credit.<\/p>\n<p><b>Dave:<\/b> \u2014I always did. [Laughter] I always said\u2014I\u2019d just come straight out\u2014<\/p>\n<p><b>Levi:<\/b> \u2014like the first time. Then the next time, you say, \u201cSomeone once said\u2026\u201d; and then the third time, you say, \u201cAs I always say\u2026\u201d [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><b>Dave:<\/b> Yes, exactly; [Laughter] but I want to hear you talk about it. I read what you wrote about\u2014I call it: \u201cRun to the roar\u201d; but that whole concept\u2014explain that, because that\u2014and you just talked about it; you do it in your home\u2014so explain what that means. I don\u2019t know if I\u2019m using the right phrase: \u201cRun to the roar,\u201d but\u2014<\/p>\n<p><b>Levi:<\/b> Yes; the idea is the way lions hunt; they scare prey into a trap. Male lions don\u2019t actually do much for hunting; it was all the lionesses. It\u2019s like, in real life, the women do all the significant things. [Laughter] The male lion will roar and scare the gazelle away from him. The gazelle, of course, wants to get away from the roar; so it goes the opposite direction. But then the lionesses are hunting in the grass below; and so when he runs, he\u2019s actually running towards danger, not away from it.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>It would be counterintuitive\u2014but the best thing to do would be to run <i>towards<\/i> the roar\/to run <i>towards<\/i> his fear\u2014and not into a trap. The point I make in the book is that\u2014when we let our fears control us, and we do what we were\/we run away from the scary things\u2014we\u2019re, actually, moving towards danger and not away from it.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>The point is: in grief, sometimes, you tend to\u2014for us, I know it would have been very tempting to box up all of her stuff, and never go there, never talk about it; just put it out of sight and just never really bring it up\u2014but we kind of said: \u201cHey, we\u2019re just not going to live with all these mementos that are going to be scary for us and things that are going to trigger. We\u2019re going to go through it; we\u2019re going to <i>feel<\/i> it.\u201d<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>I understand people, who maybe would easily turn to drugs or alcohol to numb the pain of grief. It would be very tempting to go get a prescription and you just not feel any of this. But we just had a conviction that: \u201cHey, we\u2019re going to feel this; we\u2019re going to feel it all. We\u2019re going to plunge into this; and if it kills us, then fine; but at least, we\u2019re not going to have to live a life of fear.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>What we found was that, by triggering all the mine fields, there eventually weren\u2019t too many more mine fields to blow up. We did it together; we ran through it together. We had good counsel\u2014people from our church and our community\u2014and if something was scary to us, we just ran headlong into it.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>Obviously, there\u2019s still things\/surprising griefs that pop up; but they\u2019re more few and far between. What I say in the book is that I felt God calling me, not to write a manual for grieving, but a manifesto for a different kind of living. I guess <i>Eyes of the Lion<\/i> was the grief book that I couldn\u2019t find on the shelf, and so I wrote it. It was the book I wanted to read to tell me\u2014not just \u201cHere\u2019s how you\u2019re going to get through it,\u201d and offer me Kleenex<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>\u2014but to say \u201cHey, you can kick over some apple carts and watch God do something great in the midst of your greatest fears.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><b>Ann:<\/b> One of the examples that you say in the book was when Lenya\u2019s clothes were brought to you from the hospital. You had, at first, a tendency: \u201cLet\u2019s not look at those.\u201d What happened?<\/p>\n<p><b>Jennie:<\/b> It was kind of like Levi mentioned\u2014one of those landmines, where it\u2019s like, \u201cOkay; this is going to hurt, and this going to be hard. Do we even want to go there?\u201d\u2014I think that kind of became a: \u201cYes, we\u2019re going to go there; because we\u2019re going to allow ourselves to feel it. We\u2019re going to let the grief just kind of punch us in the chest; we\u2019re going to let it knock the air out of us, and then we\u2019re going to get up, and we\u2019re going to keep walking.\u201d<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>That was so horrible, because we just received all the things\u2014the clothes she was wearing that night: the pants that were cut off of her, the socks that she wore\u2014we were weeping, but we let it hit us. We let it do its damage\u2014and the heartache, and the ache, and everything\u2014we just went through it. We saved the things we needed to, and then we moved on. It was just like we felt it; we felt <i>everything<\/i>. It hurt <i>so much<\/i>, but then we were able to take the next step. I don\u2019t know\u2014it really wasn\u2019t a formula\u2014as much now, looking back, it was like, \u201cOh yeah, that makes sense; because now we feel so that God\u2019s healed us.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><b>Levi:<\/b> And the cool thing is hearing from people, who are going through unrelated griefs, and telling us how it became an anthem for them in chemotherapy or whatever. Like that \u201cRun toward the roar,\u201d became\u2014<\/p>\n<p><b>Jennie:<\/b> \u2014doing the hard things.<\/p>\n<p><b>Levi:<\/b> It\u2019s become something that has surprised us in how God\u2019s used it.<\/p>\n<p><b>Dave:<\/b> It is so healthy; because I\u2019m sitting here, thinking, \u201cMy family did the opposite. We <i>never<\/i> talked about Craig\/just didn\u2019t bring it up, because it was painful.\u201d I don\u2019t remember a conversation, and then never even talked about the divorce with my mom and dad. Again, I\u2019m a little boy; I\u2019m going through this trauma, but\u2014<\/p>\n<p><b>Ann:<\/b> It\u2019s also that alcohol is prevalent and so\u2014<\/p>\n<p><b>Dave:<\/b> \u2014so they went into\u2014<\/p>\n<p><b>Ann:<\/b> \u2014just covered it all up.<\/p>\n<p><b>Levi:<\/b> Covered it up, yes.<\/p>\n<p><b>Dave:<\/b> They denied it.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>I\u2019ll never forget when Ann and I\u2014in our first year of marriage\u2014my dad comes to visit us in Nebraska. I was the chaplain for the Nebraska Cornhuskers. We\u2019re out there, starting our ministry\/first year married. My dad was an airline pilot; I saw him maybe two or three times a year. We didn\u2019t have a very close relationship. We sit down after dinner\u2014I\u2019ll never forget this\u2014he sits down. Ann\u2019s right beside me on the couch; and she goes, \u201cHey, so Dave\u201d\u2014that\u2019s my dad\u2019s name\u2014\"Dave, tell me your perspective on the divorce. I want to hear <i>your<\/i> side.\u201d I\u2019m literally like grabbing her, like, \u201cWe don\u2019t talk about this! This is <i>not<\/i> allowed in our family.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><b>Ann:<\/b> I said, \u201cI\u2019ve known Dave\u2019s mom\/known Janice for years. I\u2019ve heard her story, but I\u2019m sure there\u2019s a side to your story. I\u2019d love to know who you are and what happened.\u201d<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Jennie:<\/b> Yes; wow.<\/p>\n<p><b>Ann:<\/b> He couldn\u2019t stop talking.<\/p>\n<p><b>Levi:<\/b> He had permission.<\/p>\n<p><b>Dave: <\/b>Yes; he looked at us, like, \u201cI\u2019m allowed to talk?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><b>Ann:<\/b> He said, \u201cYou\u2019re the first person that has ever asked for my side.\u201d It was so interesting, because it was the first time Dave really got to know your dad.<\/p>\n<p><b>Levi:<\/b> He probably didn\u2019t have the tools to handle the things; because he was probably not given them, by his parents, either; so how amazing it is you gave that to him.<\/p>\n<p><b>Dave:<\/b> Right.<\/p>\n<p><b>Jennie:<\/b> Oh, that\u2019s beautiful; that\u2019s beautiful.<\/p>\n<p><b>Ann:<\/b> Well, the other thing I thought had to be so difficult was when the hospital called you and asked if you would be willing to have Lenya\u2019s organs donated.<\/p>\n<p><b>Levi:<\/b> Yes; it was hard, obviously. They were all hard moments.<\/p>\n<p><b>Jennie:<\/b> It came like ten minutes after we had gotten home.<\/p>\n<p><b>Levi:<\/b> I mean, we had just got home; and the phone rang. She\u2019s still hooked up to the machines and all of that. There\u2019s a window where they can harvest and all of that, and so they called us. When I saw North Valley Hospital on the caller ID, I thought she must have sat up\u2014that was my first thought\u2014and so to be given that surge of hope and then have it dashed when the person\u2014and all the hospital people were doing such a great job\u2014but they said, \u201cI\u2019m so sorry. There\u2019s no easy way to say this, but can we harvest her for organ donation?\u201d It was really hard to hear that, and it buckled my knees; but we both felt like this is a way she can be used to help somebody else out\/give someone else hope.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>Obviously, as the metaphor of the book suggests, her eyes were able to be used for someone else. Lenya is actually a name in Russian that means lion, so her nickname was Lenya Lion. It became super poetic. Her corneas went to two blind people. We got word later that they got to see through her eyes. So there\u2019s two people, somewhere in the world today, that can see through our daughter\u2019s eyes, which is amazing.<\/p>\n<p><b>Jennie:<\/b> We\u2019ve heard story after story of people who\u2019ve named\u2014there are a lot of little Lenyas around in the world\u2014even just this past week, I\u2019ve received two letters of families, who knew our story, and had a baby and named them Lenya. It\u2019s really, really precious and so beautiful that, even through the eyes of a lion, a Lenya Lion\u2014like knowing there\u2019s a little generation of these little Lenya Lions that are being sent out into the world, which is just so precious.<\/p>\n<p><b>Dave:<\/b> That\u2019s great.<\/p>\n<p><b>Ann:<\/b> You said that you are hearing from all these people that are using this. Even a chemo patient is saying that they\u2019re \u201cRunning toward the roar.\u201d How do we do that? What\u2019s that look like?<\/p>\n<p><b>Levi:<\/b> Jennie just said it a moment ago, and I think it\u2019s an anthem. We do the hard things. Sadly, I think it\u2019s easy to run away from friction and adversity. In so doing, we often short circuit our own development; because we neglect the reality that most of the best things in life are introduced through seasons of difficulty, and when we run away from that\u2014when we take the short circuit\/when we take the easy way out, whether that\u2019s alcohol, or quitting your church, or moving off, whatever\u2014like there\u2019s so many things in life that are the chances to get offended. Jesus said, \u201cBlessed are those who are not offended on behalf of Me.\u201d I think one of the greatest, easiest ways to get offended is to get mad at God when something is hard.<\/p>\n<p><b>Jennie:<\/b> Right.<\/p>\n<p><b>Levi:<\/b> God might be handing you the opportunity of a lifetime. How easy would it have been for Joseph to get offended when his fianc\u00e9 was pregnant? But God was giving him the opportunity\u2014and so many people\u2014David gets anointed as king; and then immediately, Saul starts throwing spears at him. The question is: \u201cAre you going to throw the spears back, or you going to keep playing your harp?\u201d I think a lot of us miss chances to develop, and to grow, and to be used by God in significant ways; because we don\u2019t run <i>toward<\/i> the roar. We give up; we throw in the towel the moment anything is challenging.<\/p>\n<p><b>Dave:<\/b> Is that part of another theme you have in the book?\u2014is: \u201cPain is a microphone.\u201d Is that what you\u2019re trying to get at? Explain that a little bit.<\/p>\n<p><b>Levi:<\/b> \u201cThe pain is a microphone,\u201d comes from the idea that, when God called Paul, who was Saul\u2014who hated the church and tore it down with his bare hands\u2014when God sent Ananias to go pray for him, He said, \u201cGo tell him he\u2019s going to preach to kings, and to Gentiles, and the nation of Israel, and see how many things he must suffer for My namesake.\u201d<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>Now those weren\u2019t two separate things. If you look at the book of Acts, Paul did do every single thing. Paul preached to kings, Gentiles, and the nation of Israel; but along the way, he suffered many things: shipwrecks, stoning, beatings, betrayals, abandonment, blah-blah-blah. But if you took away the misery, you also would take away the ministry. It was when he got bit by a snake, shipwrecked, beaten, lied about, that he got to do all the things he did from chains, in the jail cell, with stripes on his back.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>What I\u2019m trying to say is: \u201cAll of us would love to have a life without pain, but that would be a life without power; because God brings power into our life oftentimes smuggled inside of pain,\u201d like the proverbial fork or file in a cake. Pain is a microphone; the more it hurts, the louder you become. When God allows you to be tried by many trials, just know this: \u201cThat suffering is not an obstacle to you being used by God.<\/p>\n<p><b>Ann:<\/b> That\u2019s so good.<\/p>\n<p><b>Levi:<\/b> \u201cIt\u2019s an opportunity to be used like never before.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><b>Jennie:<\/b> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><b>Ann:<\/b> I\u2019m thinking about when Dave and I went to seminary. One of our classes was we\u2019re taking classes on how to help counsel people; and so whenever you do that, what do you do?\u2014you bring up all your old junk.<\/p>\n<p><b>Dave:<\/b> It became a counseling class for the Wilsons.<\/p>\n<p><b>Ann:<\/b> Yes! [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><b>Levi:<\/b> Oh yes, therapy.<\/p>\n<p><b>Ann:<\/b> <i>Exactly<\/i>. I have sexual abuse in my past, and I had told Dave about it. I thought, \u201cYou know, it\u2019s in the past. It\u2019s all done. Jesus has healed me,\u201d and all of that.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>Well, I go to that class; and I have never dealt with any of the emotion, any of the trauma, any of the pain; and so I start going through this grieving process and this anger. I\u2019m sobbing every night. It\u2019s like I took this\u2014I had this wound\u2014and I took the bandage off, and I was just bleeding out.<\/p>\n<p><b>Levi and Jennie:<\/b> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><b>Ann:<\/b> My sister came to visit me in California when we were going to school out there. I had never told her; I had never told anyone in my family. I told my sister, \u201cI\u2019m going through this.\u201d She\u2019s my best friend; she led me to Jesus. I said, \u201cI\u2019m going through this abuse stuff\u201d; and she goes, \u201cWhat?!\u201d I said, \u201cI know I\u2019ve never told you. You\u2019re my best friend, but I was sexually abused.\u201d She\u2019s like, \u201cSo was I!\u201d<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>So we both go through this healing process, where it\u2019s exactly that. I would think that \u201cOh, I\u2019ve healed! I\u2019m done; I\u2019m good. I\u2019m not grieving anymore.\u201d But then something would happen that would just trigger that feeling. It\u2019s almost like another Band-Aid<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> came off, and there was another wound exposed. I\u2019m like, \u201cLord, really? I have to do this more and more?\u201d<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>Yet, I think what happened is\u2014instead of running away, as you said, from the pain\u2014I started taking it before Jesus, and saying, \u201cLord, here\u2019s where I am. This hurts. I thought this was over, but I see that there\u2019s more.\u201d In the process, He\u2019s healing my soul; He\u2019s bringing me back to life.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>My sister and I both later got together, because we both had started really dealing with it and letting God heal it. I started talking about it; I started sharing what God was doing in the healing process. What happens: it allows so many people to share their own story of pain and abuse.<\/p>\n<p><b>Jennie:<\/b> Right; right.<\/p>\n<p><b>Ann:<\/b> My sister and I got together; and I said, \u201cI would go through it again in order to help all these women, who have been hiding and living in shame.\u201d<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>That\u2019s exactly what you\u2019re saying: \u201cLet God into it; let Him heal you; and let others share your pain and let them into it, because God is all about taking our suffering just as He did. We can bring glory to God in it; because as we\u2019re on this earth, it\u2019s not easy. We\u2019re all going to suffer; but if we can suffer and point each other back to Jesus, it\u2019s amazing what He can do.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><b>Levi:<\/b> That\u2019s it; no one gets to not suffer. The Bible says, \u201cThe rain falls on the righteous and the wicked.\u201d It\u2019s like: \u201cBelieve in Jesus, you suffer,\u201d \u201cDon\u2019t believe in Jesus, you suffer,\u201d \u201cBut when you believe in Jesus and suffer, you get to suffer in hope.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><b>Ann:<\/b> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><b>Levi:<\/b> I\u2019d rather do that. I\u2019m no smart man, but I\u2019d rather do that.<\/p>\n<p><b>Ann:<\/b> Me, too.<\/p>\n<p><b>Dave:<\/b> I would have never thought, growing up in a broken home, divorced parents\u2014and then, when Ann and I got married, in year ten, she told me, \u201cI\u2019m done,\u201d\u2014and God showed up. It\u2019s a whole other story\u2014we wrote a book about it\u2014but I would have never thought those experiences in my life would <i>point<\/i> me to God\u2019s purpose for us.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>The pain in our life pointed us to His purpose <i>and<\/i> the people that need the hope from that story. Just as you\u2019ve been connected to people you\u2019ve probably never met, I would have never connected those dots. It\u2019s like this pain is sort of isolated; nope! God\u2019s like: \u201cI\u2019m in it. I met you in it, and now I want to use it to show you why you\u2019re on this planet. That darkness is going to bring light to other people.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><b>Ann:<\/b> Your pain can become your platform.<\/p>\n<p><b>Dave:<\/b> Yes; so thank you for, not only writing the book, but letting people in; because as you know, you are literally saving and helping millions.<\/p>\n<p><b>Ann:<\/b> And I would love it if you guys would pray for those that are just suffering. They\u2019re in it; they\u2019re really struggling. Will you pray for them?<\/p>\n<p><b>Levi:<\/b> Absolutely. Thanks for having us on, you guys.<\/p>\n<p><b>Jennie:<\/b> Thank you.<\/p>\n<p><b>Levi:<\/b><span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>Jesus, we love You. We\u2019re grateful to stand on the Cornerstone that our faith is built on, and that\u2019s Jesus. We thank You that You\u2019re an anchor for us, both sure and steadfast. I pray for every listener\/every person, who is suffering\/hurting, that Your Spirit even now would touch their hearts, convince them of Your grace. We know that Your loving kindness leads us to repentance, and we pray for people to even just, right where they are, to sense You speaking to them, through their headphones or through the speakers in their car, and just the reality that they\u2019re not alone. They\u2019re seen; they\u2019re loved by You; and that You have a plan to work everything that\u2019s hard, and challenging, and painful into something that\u2019s going to bring You glory and bring us joy. We\u2019re confident in that.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>We\u2019re grateful to be a part of this thing called the church, people who have been called out of the world to know You\/to be marked by Your name. We\u2019re not marked by the brand on our purse, or our shoes, or our jeans. We\u2019re marked by the name of Jesus that we get to carry; and when we leave this world, we\u2019re going to open our eyes in eternity and see You and know You, even as we\u2019re known. We\u2019ll have answers to all the questions that puzzle us now. But between now and then, in the already but not yet, we lean into that tension; and we just say that: \u201cJesus You are enough for us.\u201d We love You and thank You for this time. In Jesus name. Amen.<\/p>\n<p><b>Ann:<\/b> Amen.<\/p>\n<p><b>Jennie:<\/b> Amen.<\/p>\n<p><b>Bob:<\/b> Someone has said, \u201cWe don\u2019t know what the future holds, but we know the One who holds the future\u201d; and that is where we find our rest and our comfort.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>Dave and Ann Wilson talking, today, with Levi and Jennie Lusko. Levi has written the story we\u2019ve heard about today in a book called <i>Through the Eyes of a Lion: Facing Impossible Pain, Finding Incredible Power<\/i>. We\u2019ve got that book available in our <i>FamilyLife Today<\/i> Resource Center. You can order it from us online at FamilyLifeToday.com, or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY to get your copy. Again, the title of the book is <i>Through the Eyes of a Lion: Facing Impossible Pain, Finding Incredible Power<\/i> by Levi Lusko. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com to order your copy, or call 1-800-358-6329; that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Now, many of you know that, during the month of May, we had a matching-gift challenge that was made available to us, here, at FamilyLife. David Robbins, who is the president of FamilyLife, is here with us to talk about that. David, the gifts that we received as a ministry from our listeners, during the month of May, these are going to make a <i>huge<\/i> difference for us, as a ministry, going forward.<\/p>\n<p><b>David:<\/b> Yes, that\u2019s right. I\u2019m so encouraged by the ability to minister to more families. I heard from Susan in an email this month; and she said, \u201cI am struggling to stay afloat in the most challenging waters in my life. I\u2019m in a 34-year marriage, and it\u2019s been an unhealthy marriage with all that\u2019s going on in the world. However, there are glimmers of hope for the first time in forever. Thanks for being a lifeline of hope.\u201d<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>I just want to say your kind and generous contributions in May, that were matched, enables FamilyLife to keep bringing the lifeline of hope found in the gospel and in the timeless truths of God\u2019s Word to a growing number of families. I really am sincerely so grateful.<\/p>\n<p><b>Bob:<\/b> As are we all. Thank you, David, for that.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>I want to thank our listeners for being with us today. Tomorrow, Dave and Ann Wilson are going to talk about how important it is for us to measure our words\/our communication with one another in marriage. Our words can either build up or tear down, and we\u2019ll hear more about that tomorrow.<\/p>\n<p>On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <i>FamilyLife Today<\/i>.<\/p>\n<p><i>FamilyLife Today<\/i> is a production of FamilyLife, a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry; helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.<\/p>\n<p>We are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs? <span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>Copyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2021 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a> <span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:"],"show_notes":["<ul>\n<li>Find resources from this podcast at <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/radio-resources\/\">shop.familylife.com<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/past-radio-resources\/\">See resources from our past podcasts.<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Find more content and resources on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/app\/\">FamilyLife's app<\/a>!<\/li>\n<li>Help others find FamilyLife. Leave a review on <a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303\">Apple Podcast<\/a> or <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm?si=d6dfa8d2415f4750\">Spotify<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Check out all the FamilyLife's podcasts on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/flministries\/familylife-podcast-network\/\">FamilyLife Podcast Network<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n"],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["28.19M"],"filesize_raw":["29556839"],"_edit_lock":["1747172020:47000"],"_g_feedback_shortcode_ef3ebeb76fb03410de8806d9a1a3c28086606ede":["\n\t\t\t\t[contact-field label=\"Name\" type=\"name\"  required=\"true\" \/]\n\t\t\t\t[contact-field label=\"Email\" type=\"email\" required=\"true\" \/]\n\t\t\t\t[contact-field label=\"Website\" type=\"url\" \/]\n\t\t\t\t[contact-field label=\"Message\" type=\"textarea\" 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easy to want to run away from things that we face in our grief, but Levi and Jennie Lusko contend that, with God's help, walking into what seems so scary can produce the greatest healing.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"<ul>\n<li>Find resources from this podcast at <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/radio-resources\/\">shop.familylife.com<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/past-radio-resources\/\">See resources from our past podcasts.<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Find more content and resources on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/app\/\">FamilyLife's app<\/a>!<\/li>\n<li>Help others find FamilyLife. Leave a review on <a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303\">Apple Podcast<\/a> or <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm?si=d6dfa8d2415f4750\">Spotify<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Check out all the FamilyLife's podcasts on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/flministries\/familylife-podcast-network\/\">FamilyLife Podcast Network<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n","transcript_url":"","transcript_content":"<p><b>Ann: <\/b>Okay, Dave; so you and your mom had an interesting ritual every Sunday. Tell us about it.<\/p>\n<p><b>Dave:<\/b> We would go to church; we\u2019d drive to the cemetery; we\u2019d look at my brother\u2019s grave.<\/p>\n<p><b>Ann:<\/b> Welcome to <i>FamilyLife Today<\/i>,<i> <\/i>where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I\u2019m Ann Wilson.<\/p>\n<p><b>Dave:<\/b> And I\u2019m Dave Wilson, and you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com or on our FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> app.<\/p>\n<p><b>Ann: <\/b>This is <i>FamilyLife Today.<\/i><span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>\u2014every Sunday?<\/p>\n<p><b>Dave:<\/b> As much as I can remember every Sunday.<\/p>\n<p><b>Ann:<\/b> How old were you the first time?<\/p>\n<p><b>Dave:<\/b> You know, 10\/11; I was 7 when he died.<\/p>\n<p><b>Ann:<\/b> \u2014and he was five.<\/p>\n<p><b>Dave:<\/b> Then my mom and dad were divorced. I can see myself standing right there, right now, looking down at his grave. It was a weird feeling; because you\u2019re like, \u201cHe\u2019s not there.\u201d My mom\u2019s crying. I\u2019m sort of in denial\u2014but feeling pain, as a young, young boy\u2014I didn\u2019t understand it. I just thought God had avoided or left our family.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>Today, we get to talk to a couple of parents, who have lost a daughter, and wrote a book called <i>Through the Eyes of a Lion<\/i>\u2014Levi and Jennie Lusko.<\/p>\n<p><b>Ann:<\/b> Welcome back, you guys.<\/p>\n<p><b>Jennie:<\/b> Thank you.<\/p>\n<p><b>Levi:<\/b> Thank you for having us.<\/p>\n<p><b>Dave:<\/b> It\u2019s been great walking through this journey with you. Your book\u2019s been a powerful resource. You\u2019re pastors at Fresh Life Church out in Montana and authors of all kinds of books. We\u2019re not going to get into all the other books right now; we could have you back and talk about all kinds of stuff.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>Let\u2019s talk a little bit; you know, we spent the last couple of times talking about your journey to be pastors, start Fresh Life, and then the death of your daughter when she was five years old. But talk about where God is in those moments; because as you just heard a little bit of my story\u2014I\u2019m seven years old; I lose my little brother and then\/actually, my parents got divorced, and then I lost my brother\u2014just all about in a six-month period.<\/p>\n<p><b>Levi:<\/b> Aw, man!<\/p>\n<p><b>Dave:<\/b> He got leukemia, and within six\/eight weeks was just gone, and we had just moved. My mom is now a single mom; I\u2019m a little boy, and I pretty much turn away from God, thinking, \u201cIf that\u2019s who God is,\u201d\u2014mom and dad divorce; brother dies\u2014\"He must not care; He must not be here.\u201d Obviously, years later, I have a totally different perspective on that; but that\u2019s where I was at the moment.<\/p>\n<p><b>Jennie:<\/b> Wow.<\/p>\n<p><b>Dave:<\/b> I watched my mom struggle for years; but at the same time, she never lost her faith. She really held onto a strong faith in God.<\/p>\n<p><b>Ann:<\/b> I think she got stronger, actually,\u2014<\/p>\n<p><b>Dave:<\/b> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><b>Ann:<\/b> \u2014in the midst of it; because she was desperate for God. She needed Him.<\/p>\n<p><b>Dave:<\/b> Yes\u2014and yet, you know, for me, as a brother\u2014but for my mom and dad, as parents, oh man, you\u2019re supposed to die before your kids. It\u2019s just sort of the way it\u2019s supposed to go, and that didn\u2019t happen. You\u2019ve been there; you <i>are<\/i> there.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>Talk about your perspective or help people to understand God didn\u2019t leave\u2014God\u2019s right there\u2014but it\u2019s <i>dark<\/i>, and it\u2019s a devastating loss. How do you have a theology of suffering and growing in suffering when bad things like this happen?<\/p>\n<p><b>Levi:<\/b> We\u2019ve always had a very big robust God in our theology\u2014and a big God, who is sovereign, and knows the end from the beginning, and speaks and stars are created, and is triumphant and is resurrected\u2014He\u2019s defeated death. Our understanding of life [is] formed by God and not vice versa. We don\u2019t look at life, and pain, and challenge, and then determine our theology. We start with who God is\u2014and then, as A. W. Tozer says\u2014\u201cWhat a man thinks of when he thinks of God is the most important thing about him.\u201d<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>So that big God then, we then look through that lens to this life. I think it\u2019s really important, because it will allow you to believe your beliefs and doubt your doubts. He\u2019s God; He\u2019s King. And like Peter said to him in John 6, \u201cYou alone have eternal life. Who else are we going to go to? Who else offers what you have?\u201d<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>That doesn\u2019t make it easy to hurt; that doesn\u2019t make it easy to suffer; but what it does do is it changes the conclusions you come to. You see the same data; you see the same reality, but you just know that\u2019s not the end of the story. You know that there\u2019s also glory. There\u2019s\u2014like Paul said\u2014this great weight of suffering\/it becomes like a small and insignificant thing when I compare it to the weight of glory. I think that\u2019s kind of what is factored into us looking at these things a little bit differently than maybe we would have if there wasn\u2019t a big God in our story.<\/p>\n<p><b>Dave:<\/b> One of the powerful concepts in the book that I\u2019ve stolen, Levi\u2014as a preacher and plagiarized and taught your concept\u2014<\/p>\n<p><b>Ann:<\/b> No, you always gave him credit.<\/p>\n<p><b>Dave:<\/b> \u2014I always did. [Laughter] I always said\u2014I\u2019d just come straight out\u2014<\/p>\n<p><b>Levi:<\/b> \u2014like the first time. Then the next time, you say, \u201cSomeone once said\u2026\u201d; and then the third time, you say, \u201cAs I always say\u2026\u201d [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><b>Dave:<\/b> Yes, exactly; [Laughter] but I want to hear you talk about it. I read what you wrote about\u2014I call it: \u201cRun to the roar\u201d; but that whole concept\u2014explain that, because that\u2014and you just talked about it; you do it in your home\u2014so explain what that means. I don\u2019t know if I\u2019m using the right phrase: \u201cRun to the roar,\u201d but\u2014<\/p>\n<p><b>Levi:<\/b> Yes; the idea is the way lions hunt; they scare prey into a trap. Male lions don\u2019t actually do much for hunting; it was all the lionesses. It\u2019s like, in real life, the women do all the significant things. [Laughter] The male lion will roar and scare the gazelle away from him. The gazelle, of course, wants to get away from the roar; so it goes the opposite direction. But then the lionesses are hunting in the grass below; and so when he runs, he\u2019s actually running towards danger, not away from it.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>It would be counterintuitive\u2014but the best thing to do would be to run <i>towards<\/i> the roar\/to run <i>towards<\/i> his fear\u2014and not into a trap. The point I make in the book is that\u2014when we let our fears control us, and we do what we were\/we run away from the scary things\u2014we\u2019re, actually, moving towards danger and not away from it.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>The point is: in grief, sometimes, you tend to\u2014for us, I know it would have been very tempting to box up all of her stuff, and never go there, never talk about it; just put it out of sight and just never really bring it up\u2014but we kind of said: \u201cHey, we\u2019re just not going to live with all these mementos that are going to be scary for us and things that are going to trigger. We\u2019re going to go through it; we\u2019re going to <i>feel<\/i> it.\u201d<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>I understand people, who maybe would easily turn to drugs or alcohol to numb the pain of grief. It would be very tempting to go get a prescription and you just not feel any of this. But we just had a conviction that: \u201cHey, we\u2019re going to feel this; we\u2019re going to feel it all. We\u2019re going to plunge into this; and if it kills us, then fine; but at least, we\u2019re not going to have to live a life of fear.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>What we found was that, by triggering all the mine fields, there eventually weren\u2019t too many more mine fields to blow up. We did it together; we ran through it together. We had good counsel\u2014people from our church and our community\u2014and if something was scary to us, we just ran headlong into it.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>Obviously, there\u2019s still things\/surprising griefs that pop up; but they\u2019re more few and far between. What I say in the book is that I felt God calling me, not to write a manual for grieving, but a manifesto for a different kind of living. I guess <i>Eyes of the Lion<\/i> was the grief book that I couldn\u2019t find on the shelf, and so I wrote it. It was the book I wanted to read to tell me\u2014not just \u201cHere\u2019s how you\u2019re going to get through it,\u201d and offer me Kleenex<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>\u2014but to say \u201cHey, you can kick over some apple carts and watch God do something great in the midst of your greatest fears.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><b>Ann:<\/b> One of the examples that you say in the book was when Lenya\u2019s clothes were brought to you from the hospital. You had, at first, a tendency: \u201cLet\u2019s not look at those.\u201d What happened?<\/p>\n<p><b>Jennie:<\/b> It was kind of like Levi mentioned\u2014one of those landmines, where it\u2019s like, \u201cOkay; this is going to hurt, and this going to be hard. Do we even want to go there?\u201d\u2014I think that kind of became a: \u201cYes, we\u2019re going to go there; because we\u2019re going to allow ourselves to feel it. We\u2019re going to let the grief just kind of punch us in the chest; we\u2019re going to let it knock the air out of us, and then we\u2019re going to get up, and we\u2019re going to keep walking.\u201d<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>That was so horrible, because we just received all the things\u2014the clothes she was wearing that night: the pants that were cut off of her, the socks that she wore\u2014we were weeping, but we let it hit us. We let it do its damage\u2014and the heartache, and the ache, and everything\u2014we just went through it. We saved the things we needed to, and then we moved on. It was just like we felt it; we felt <i>everything<\/i>. It hurt <i>so much<\/i>, but then we were able to take the next step. I don\u2019t know\u2014it really wasn\u2019t a formula\u2014as much now, looking back, it was like, \u201cOh yeah, that makes sense; because now we feel so that God\u2019s healed us.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><b>Levi:<\/b> And the cool thing is hearing from people, who are going through unrelated griefs, and telling us how it became an anthem for them in chemotherapy or whatever. Like that \u201cRun toward the roar,\u201d became\u2014<\/p>\n<p><b>Jennie:<\/b> \u2014doing the hard things.<\/p>\n<p><b>Levi:<\/b> It\u2019s become something that has surprised us in how God\u2019s used it.<\/p>\n<p><b>Dave:<\/b> It is so healthy; because I\u2019m sitting here, thinking, \u201cMy family did the opposite. We <i>never<\/i> talked about Craig\/just didn\u2019t bring it up, because it was painful.\u201d I don\u2019t remember a conversation, and then never even talked about the divorce with my mom and dad. Again, I\u2019m a little boy; I\u2019m going through this trauma, but\u2014<\/p>\n<p><b>Ann:<\/b> It\u2019s also that alcohol is prevalent and so\u2014<\/p>\n<p><b>Dave:<\/b> \u2014so they went into\u2014<\/p>\n<p><b>Ann:<\/b> \u2014just covered it all up.<\/p>\n<p><b>Levi:<\/b> Covered it up, yes.<\/p>\n<p><b>Dave:<\/b> They denied it.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>I\u2019ll never forget when Ann and I\u2014in our first year of marriage\u2014my dad comes to visit us in Nebraska. I was the chaplain for the Nebraska Cornhuskers. We\u2019re out there, starting our ministry\/first year married. My dad was an airline pilot; I saw him maybe two or three times a year. We didn\u2019t have a very close relationship. We sit down after dinner\u2014I\u2019ll never forget this\u2014he sits down. Ann\u2019s right beside me on the couch; and she goes, \u201cHey, so Dave\u201d\u2014that\u2019s my dad\u2019s name\u2014\"Dave, tell me your perspective on the divorce. I want to hear <i>your<\/i> side.\u201d I\u2019m literally like grabbing her, like, \u201cWe don\u2019t talk about this! This is <i>not<\/i> allowed in our family.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><b>Ann:<\/b> I said, \u201cI\u2019ve known Dave\u2019s mom\/known Janice for years. I\u2019ve heard her story, but I\u2019m sure there\u2019s a side to your story. I\u2019d love to know who you are and what happened.\u201d<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b>Jennie:<\/b> Yes; wow.<\/p>\n<p><b>Ann:<\/b> He couldn\u2019t stop talking.<\/p>\n<p><b>Levi:<\/b> He had permission.<\/p>\n<p><b>Dave: <\/b>Yes; he looked at us, like, \u201cI\u2019m allowed to talk?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><b>Ann:<\/b> He said, \u201cYou\u2019re the first person that has ever asked for my side.\u201d It was so interesting, because it was the first time Dave really got to know your dad.<\/p>\n<p><b>Levi:<\/b> He probably didn\u2019t have the tools to handle the things; because he was probably not given them, by his parents, either; so how amazing it is you gave that to him.<\/p>\n<p><b>Dave:<\/b> Right.<\/p>\n<p><b>Jennie:<\/b> Oh, that\u2019s beautiful; that\u2019s beautiful.<\/p>\n<p><b>Ann:<\/b> Well, the other thing I thought had to be so difficult was when the hospital called you and asked if you would be willing to have Lenya\u2019s organs donated.<\/p>\n<p><b>Levi:<\/b> Yes; it was hard, obviously. They were all hard moments.<\/p>\n<p><b>Jennie:<\/b> It came like ten minutes after we had gotten home.<\/p>\n<p><b>Levi:<\/b> I mean, we had just got home; and the phone rang. She\u2019s still hooked up to the machines and all of that. There\u2019s a window where they can harvest and all of that, and so they called us. When I saw North Valley Hospital on the caller ID, I thought she must have sat up\u2014that was my first thought\u2014and so to be given that surge of hope and then have it dashed when the person\u2014and all the hospital people were doing such a great job\u2014but they said, \u201cI\u2019m so sorry. There\u2019s no easy way to say this, but can we harvest her for organ donation?\u201d It was really hard to hear that, and it buckled my knees; but we both felt like this is a way she can be used to help somebody else out\/give someone else hope.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>Obviously, as the metaphor of the book suggests, her eyes were able to be used for someone else. Lenya is actually a name in Russian that means lion, so her nickname was Lenya Lion. It became super poetic. Her corneas went to two blind people. We got word later that they got to see through her eyes. So there\u2019s two people, somewhere in the world today, that can see through our daughter\u2019s eyes, which is amazing.<\/p>\n<p><b>Jennie:<\/b> We\u2019ve heard story after story of people who\u2019ve named\u2014there are a lot of little Lenyas around in the world\u2014even just this past week, I\u2019ve received two letters of families, who knew our story, and had a baby and named them Lenya. It\u2019s really, really precious and so beautiful that, even through the eyes of a lion, a Lenya Lion\u2014like knowing there\u2019s a little generation of these little Lenya Lions that are being sent out into the world, which is just so precious.<\/p>\n<p><b>Dave:<\/b> That\u2019s great.<\/p>\n<p><b>Ann:<\/b> You said that you are hearing from all these people that are using this. Even a chemo patient is saying that they\u2019re \u201cRunning toward the roar.\u201d How do we do that? What\u2019s that look like?<\/p>\n<p><b>Levi:<\/b> Jennie just said it a moment ago, and I think it\u2019s an anthem. We do the hard things. Sadly, I think it\u2019s easy to run away from friction and adversity. In so doing, we often short circuit our own development; because we neglect the reality that most of the best things in life are introduced through seasons of difficulty, and when we run away from that\u2014when we take the short circuit\/when we take the easy way out, whether that\u2019s alcohol, or quitting your church, or moving off, whatever\u2014like there\u2019s so many things in life that are the chances to get offended. Jesus said, \u201cBlessed are those who are not offended on behalf of Me.\u201d I think one of the greatest, easiest ways to get offended is to get mad at God when something is hard.<\/p>\n<p><b>Jennie:<\/b> Right.<\/p>\n<p><b>Levi:<\/b> God might be handing you the opportunity of a lifetime. How easy would it have been for Joseph to get offended when his fianc\u00e9 was pregnant? But God was giving him the opportunity\u2014and so many people\u2014David gets anointed as king; and then immediately, Saul starts throwing spears at him. The question is: \u201cAre you going to throw the spears back, or you going to keep playing your harp?\u201d I think a lot of us miss chances to develop, and to grow, and to be used by God in significant ways; because we don\u2019t run <i>toward<\/i> the roar. We give up; we throw in the towel the moment anything is challenging.<\/p>\n<p><b>Dave:<\/b> Is that part of another theme you have in the book?\u2014is: \u201cPain is a microphone.\u201d Is that what you\u2019re trying to get at? Explain that a little bit.<\/p>\n<p><b>Levi:<\/b> \u201cThe pain is a microphone,\u201d comes from the idea that, when God called Paul, who was Saul\u2014who hated the church and tore it down with his bare hands\u2014when God sent Ananias to go pray for him, He said, \u201cGo tell him he\u2019s going to preach to kings, and to Gentiles, and the nation of Israel, and see how many things he must suffer for My namesake.\u201d<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>Now those weren\u2019t two separate things. If you look at the book of Acts, Paul did do every single thing. Paul preached to kings, Gentiles, and the nation of Israel; but along the way, he suffered many things: shipwrecks, stoning, beatings, betrayals, abandonment, blah-blah-blah. But if you took away the misery, you also would take away the ministry. It was when he got bit by a snake, shipwrecked, beaten, lied about, that he got to do all the things he did from chains, in the jail cell, with stripes on his back.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>What I\u2019m trying to say is: \u201cAll of us would love to have a life without pain, but that would be a life without power; because God brings power into our life oftentimes smuggled inside of pain,\u201d like the proverbial fork or file in a cake. Pain is a microphone; the more it hurts, the louder you become. When God allows you to be tried by many trials, just know this: \u201cThat suffering is not an obstacle to you being used by God.<\/p>\n<p><b>Ann:<\/b> That\u2019s so good.<\/p>\n<p><b>Levi:<\/b> \u201cIt\u2019s an opportunity to be used like never before.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><b>Jennie:<\/b> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><b>Ann:<\/b> I\u2019m thinking about when Dave and I went to seminary. One of our classes was we\u2019re taking classes on how to help counsel people; and so whenever you do that, what do you do?\u2014you bring up all your old junk.<\/p>\n<p><b>Dave:<\/b> It became a counseling class for the Wilsons.<\/p>\n<p><b>Ann:<\/b> Yes! [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><b>Levi:<\/b> Oh yes, therapy.<\/p>\n<p><b>Ann:<\/b> <i>Exactly<\/i>. I have sexual abuse in my past, and I had told Dave about it. I thought, \u201cYou know, it\u2019s in the past. It\u2019s all done. Jesus has healed me,\u201d and all of that.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>Well, I go to that class; and I have never dealt with any of the emotion, any of the trauma, any of the pain; and so I start going through this grieving process and this anger. I\u2019m sobbing every night. It\u2019s like I took this\u2014I had this wound\u2014and I took the bandage off, and I was just bleeding out.<\/p>\n<p><b>Levi and Jennie:<\/b> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><b>Ann:<\/b> My sister came to visit me in California when we were going to school out there. I had never told her; I had never told anyone in my family. I told my sister, \u201cI\u2019m going through this.\u201d She\u2019s my best friend; she led me to Jesus. I said, \u201cI\u2019m going through this abuse stuff\u201d; and she goes, \u201cWhat?!\u201d I said, \u201cI know I\u2019ve never told you. You\u2019re my best friend, but I was sexually abused.\u201d She\u2019s like, \u201cSo was I!\u201d<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>So we both go through this healing process, where it\u2019s exactly that. I would think that \u201cOh, I\u2019ve healed! I\u2019m done; I\u2019m good. I\u2019m not grieving anymore.\u201d But then something would happen that would just trigger that feeling. It\u2019s almost like another Band-Aid<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> came off, and there was another wound exposed. I\u2019m like, \u201cLord, really? I have to do this more and more?\u201d<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>Yet, I think what happened is\u2014instead of running away, as you said, from the pain\u2014I started taking it before Jesus, and saying, \u201cLord, here\u2019s where I am. This hurts. I thought this was over, but I see that there\u2019s more.\u201d In the process, He\u2019s healing my soul; He\u2019s bringing me back to life.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>My sister and I both later got together, because we both had started really dealing with it and letting God heal it. I started talking about it; I started sharing what God was doing in the healing process. What happens: it allows so many people to share their own story of pain and abuse.<\/p>\n<p><b>Jennie:<\/b> Right; right.<\/p>\n<p><b>Ann:<\/b> My sister and I got together; and I said, \u201cI would go through it again in order to help all these women, who have been hiding and living in shame.\u201d<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>That\u2019s exactly what you\u2019re saying: \u201cLet God into it; let Him heal you; and let others share your pain and let them into it, because God is all about taking our suffering just as He did. We can bring glory to God in it; because as we\u2019re on this earth, it\u2019s not easy. We\u2019re all going to suffer; but if we can suffer and point each other back to Jesus, it\u2019s amazing what He can do.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><b>Levi:<\/b> That\u2019s it; no one gets to not suffer. The Bible says, \u201cThe rain falls on the righteous and the wicked.\u201d It\u2019s like: \u201cBelieve in Jesus, you suffer,\u201d \u201cDon\u2019t believe in Jesus, you suffer,\u201d \u201cBut when you believe in Jesus and suffer, you get to suffer in hope.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><b>Ann:<\/b> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><b>Levi:<\/b> I\u2019d rather do that. I\u2019m no smart man, but I\u2019d rather do that.<\/p>\n<p><b>Ann:<\/b> Me, too.<\/p>\n<p><b>Dave:<\/b> I would have never thought, growing up in a broken home, divorced parents\u2014and then, when Ann and I got married, in year ten, she told me, \u201cI\u2019m done,\u201d\u2014and God showed up. It\u2019s a whole other story\u2014we wrote a book about it\u2014but I would have never thought those experiences in my life would <i>point<\/i> me to God\u2019s purpose for us.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>The pain in our life pointed us to His purpose <i>and<\/i> the people that need the hope from that story. Just as you\u2019ve been connected to people you\u2019ve probably never met, I would have never connected those dots. It\u2019s like this pain is sort of isolated; nope! God\u2019s like: \u201cI\u2019m in it. I met you in it, and now I want to use it to show you why you\u2019re on this planet. That darkness is going to bring light to other people.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><b>Ann:<\/b> Your pain can become your platform.<\/p>\n<p><b>Dave:<\/b> Yes; so thank you for, not only writing the book, but letting people in; because as you know, you are literally saving and helping millions.<\/p>\n<p><b>Ann:<\/b> And I would love it if you guys would pray for those that are just suffering. They\u2019re in it; they\u2019re really struggling. Will you pray for them?<\/p>\n<p><b>Levi:<\/b> Absolutely. Thanks for having us on, you guys.<\/p>\n<p><b>Jennie:<\/b> Thank you.<\/p>\n<p><b>Levi:<\/b><span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>Jesus, we love You. We\u2019re grateful to stand on the Cornerstone that our faith is built on, and that\u2019s Jesus. We thank You that You\u2019re an anchor for us, both sure and steadfast. I pray for every listener\/every person, who is suffering\/hurting, that Your Spirit even now would touch their hearts, convince them of Your grace. We know that Your loving kindness leads us to repentance, and we pray for people to even just, right where they are, to sense You speaking to them, through their headphones or through the speakers in their car, and just the reality that they\u2019re not alone. They\u2019re seen; they\u2019re loved by You; and that You have a plan to work everything that\u2019s hard, and challenging, and painful into something that\u2019s going to bring You glory and bring us joy. We\u2019re confident in that.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>We\u2019re grateful to be a part of this thing called the church, people who have been called out of the world to know You\/to be marked by Your name. We\u2019re not marked by the brand on our purse, or our shoes, or our jeans. We\u2019re marked by the name of Jesus that we get to carry; and when we leave this world, we\u2019re going to open our eyes in eternity and see You and know You, even as we\u2019re known. We\u2019ll have answers to all the questions that puzzle us now. But between now and then, in the already but not yet, we lean into that tension; and we just say that: \u201cJesus You are enough for us.\u201d We love You and thank You for this time. In Jesus name. Amen.<\/p>\n<p><b>Ann:<\/b> Amen.<\/p>\n<p><b>Jennie:<\/b> Amen.<\/p>\n<p><b>Bob:<\/b> Someone has said, \u201cWe don\u2019t know what the future holds, but we know the One who holds the future\u201d; and that is where we find our rest and our comfort.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>Dave and Ann Wilson talking, today, with Levi and Jennie Lusko. Levi has written the story we\u2019ve heard about today in a book called <i>Through the Eyes of a Lion: Facing Impossible Pain, Finding Incredible Power<\/i>. We\u2019ve got that book available in our <i>FamilyLife Today<\/i> Resource Center. You can order it from us online at FamilyLifeToday.com, or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY to get your copy. Again, the title of the book is <i>Through the Eyes of a Lion: Facing Impossible Pain, Finding Incredible Power<\/i> by Levi Lusko. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com to order your copy, or call 1-800-358-6329; that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Now, many of you know that, during the month of May, we had a matching-gift challenge that was made available to us, here, at FamilyLife. David Robbins, who is the president of FamilyLife, is here with us to talk about that. David, the gifts that we received as a ministry from our listeners, during the month of May, these are going to make a <i>huge<\/i> difference for us, as a ministry, going forward.<\/p>\n<p><b>David:<\/b> Yes, that\u2019s right. I\u2019m so encouraged by the ability to minister to more families. I heard from Susan in an email this month; and she said, \u201cI am struggling to stay afloat in the most challenging waters in my life. I\u2019m in a 34-year marriage, and it\u2019s been an unhealthy marriage with all that\u2019s going on in the world. However, there are glimmers of hope for the first time in forever. Thanks for being a lifeline of hope.\u201d<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>I just want to say your kind and generous contributions in May, that were matched, enables FamilyLife to keep bringing the lifeline of hope found in the gospel and in the timeless truths of God\u2019s Word to a growing number of families. I really am sincerely so grateful.<\/p>\n<p><b>Bob:<\/b> As are we all. Thank you, David, for that.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>I want to thank our listeners for being with us today. Tomorrow, Dave and Ann Wilson are going to talk about how important it is for us to measure our words\/our communication with one another in marriage. Our words can either build up or tear down, and we\u2019ll hear more about that tomorrow.<\/p>\n<p>On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <i>FamilyLife Today<\/i>.<\/p>\n<p><i>FamilyLife Today<\/i> is a production of FamilyLife, a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry; helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.<\/p>\n<p>We are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs? <span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p>Copyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2021 FamilyLife. 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