{"id":306833,"date":"2021-04-30T07:00:05","date_gmt":"2021-04-30T11:00:05","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/finding-freedom\/"},"modified":"2021-04-30T07:00:05","modified_gmt":"2021-04-30T11:00:05","slug":"finding-freedom","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/finding-freedom\/","title":{"rendered":"Finding Freedom"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Christopher Yuan knows what it&#8217;s like to be a captive. A former drug dealer and homosexual who discovered he had HIV while serving time in prison, Yuan shares how God got his attention and eventually, his heart.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2021-04-30.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:32:03","filesize":"29.34M","filesize_raw":"30766217","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2848,2805,2896,2088],"tags":[4129],"podcast_series":[8261],"cwp_profile":[8908],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-306833","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-cultural-issues","category-gods-plan-for-marriage","category-lgbt","category-romance-and-sex","tag-homosexuality","podcast_series-holy-sexuality-and-the-gospel","cwp_profile-christopher-yuan","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/306833\/finding-freedom","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/306833\/finding-freedom","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"TBPvaIoqZM\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/finding-freedom\/\">Finding Freedom<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/finding-freedom\/embed\/#?secret=TBPvaIoqZM\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Finding Freedom&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"TBPvaIoqZM\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2021-04-30.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2021-04-30.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Christopher Yuan is a man who has, throughout his life, struggled with same-sex attraction. He admits there are aspects of his life that have been difficult, but he says he still knows where to find joy. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Christopher:<\/strong> People could say I\u2019m suffering because I\u2019m not married. I don\u2019t look at it that way at all. I\u2019m living a way that\u2019s so <em>full<\/em>\u2014more full than it <em>ever<\/em> was\u2014as a single man. Yes, I\u2019m not in a relationship. Yes, I don\u2019t have children, yet, now. Yes, I don\u2019t have a spouse now; but I\u2019m living a very, very full\u2014full life. It <em>is<\/em> full of joy. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Friday, April 30<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I\u2019m Bob Lepine. You can find us online at FamilyLifeToday.com. How do we make sense of the reality of suffering in marriage and in family relationships? How does that square up with our walk with Christ? We\u2019re going to spend some time thinking about that today with Christopher Yuan. Stay with us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. Dave, you said a little earlier this week that you have had countless conversations, over the last decade, with people in your church\/people you know, who are trying to deal\u2014either for themselves, or with a friend, or a loved one\u2014with the question: \u201cHow do I understand sexual confusion in our day?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBack when we were in elementary school, it seemed simple: \u201cThere are boys and girls;\u00a0 boys like girls, and girls like boys. We grow up; we get married,\u201d\u2014it all seemed simple. Today, it\u2019s like, \u201cDo you think you are a boy or a girl?\u201d and \u201cAre you <em>really<\/em> a boy?\u201d \u201cShould you try to change?\u201d and \u201cWho do you really like?\u201d and \u201cWho are you really going to marry?\u201d \u201cYou can marry whoever you want.\u201d This is a whole different world we\u2019re living in. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It is a whole different world. I honestly don\u2019t know if I go a week\u2014I know I don\u2019t go two weeks\u2014[people] asking these kind of questions. They\u2019re <em>centered<\/em> on sexual confusion\/gender confusion. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You know, you look at them; and they <em>really<\/em> want help.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And I think they, actually, really want truth.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014and to know how to bring grace and truth together. I think that\u2019s where it gets tricky for us, because we can deliver truth; but you can bludgeon people with truth; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think that we need to learn how to do this. People are looking\u2014that\u2019s why I feel like this book is going to make such a big impact\u2014because people are looking for answers: \u201cHow do I have these conversations?\u201d \u201cHow do I respond?\u201d \u201cHow do I help people in my church?\u201d and \u201cWhat does this look like, in today\u2019s age, when things are changing so quickly?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> The book you\u2019re talking about is a book called <em>Holy Sexuality and the Gospel. <\/em>The subtitle is <em>Sex, Desire, and Relationships Shaped by God\u2019s Grand Story. <\/em>The author is Dr. Christopher Yuan. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWelcome back. I was going to say, \u201cChris\u201d; but I\u2019m going to say, \u201cChristopher\u201d because, as we\u2019ve already talked about this week, that\u2019s your identity\u2014[Laughter]\u2014right? \u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Christopher:<\/strong> Yes; thank you, Bob.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014as a follower of Christ.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis is your second book. Your first book was a memoir of your own story\u2014I mentioned this\u2014but if folks have not heard your story, they can go to FamilyLifeToday.com and listen to the interview that we did with you and your mom.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Christopher:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> It\u2019s a remarkable story of a prodigal, who grew up and headed off to dental school\u2014and said, \u201cI think I\u2019m gay,\u201d\u2014and started living out a gay lifestyle. You were involved in drugs; you wound up in jail; that\u2019s where you met Christ. You came out of jail a new man. You wound up a student at Moody Bible Institute.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Christopher:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Today, you\u2019re a professor\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Christopher:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014at Moody Bible Institute.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I think we\u2019re sitting with the modern-day Apostle Paul. [Laughter] I mean, the guy\u2019s in prison! [Laughter] And I didn\u2019t know your story before I picked up your book. Even reading, as you lay in your jail cell\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, wait! Wait; I want him to share that part.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You can\u2019t interrupt me! You <em>always<\/em> do this! [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I know! I want to; because I want to hear Christopher share the part, where you\u2019re lying in your cell, in the bed\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Christopher:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014tell us what caught your attention when you were lying there.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Christopher:<\/strong> Okay; well, just a little backstory. I was in prison, you know, for drugs, of course; and of course, I needed to be clean. Not all gays and lesbians do drugs\u2014some do; some don\u2019t\u2014that is part of my story.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2014not only was just sentenced to six years\u2014I just, you know, thought I was going to get out, scot-free; I was fooling myself\u2014but then, I also got the news that I was HIV-positive. It was just the whole world was falling down on me; life was just worthless at that moment. I was lying there\u2014they actually just moved me to another cell; I was like transferring\u2014and so I was in another cell, and no one else was in there\u2014just down, down, down. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLying there\u2014look up at the metal bunk\u2014there was just kind of the usual scratch graffiti, and I looked over in one other corner. Someone had scribbled something\u2014I looked; and it read, \u201cIf you\u2019re bored, read Jeremiah 29:11\u201d\u2014[Laughter]\u2014\u201c\u2018For I know the plans that I have for you,\u2019 declares the Lord; \u2018plans to prosper you and not to harm you; plans to give you hope and a future.\u2019\u201d I didn\u2019t know what that verse was, and that whole verse wasn\u2019t written. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMy mom even says, \u201cYou have to tell the whole rest.\u201d So remember\u2014I was just moved to a brand-new cell\u2014I didn\u2019t have my Bible. I mean, they literally strip you down and take everything\u2014I had nothing. I went into that prison cell with nothing, but they had garbage; and you know, just kind of food and paper plates. I got up; and I was like, \u201cI don\u2019t know what Jeremiah 29:11 is.\u201d I kind of got up; and I was just going through\u2014they have a locker there with\u2014there\u2019s plastic cups, and there was a Bible in the back. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Wow!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Christopher:<\/strong> So I opened it up. I had to go to the Table of Contents, because I don\u2019t know Jeremiah, where that is! I mean, I kind of knew that it was probably a Bible verse. I read, and then, if you kind of go down after that\u2014how it says that \u201cGod will call you back from captivity.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Wow!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Christopher:<\/strong> All the verses\u2014that was for <em>me<\/em>. Yes, Jeremiah was writing to a <em>rebellious<\/em> nation that had just turned so far from God and, now, He was turning them into exile; but God was telling them, through the mouth of His prophet, \u201cI still have a plan for you!\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat was meaningful for me that, you know, in the midst of my just tragedy\u2014you know, six years\u2014I mean, you know, at that time, this was December \u201998; and I thought: \u201cI don\u2019t know! I\u2019ve got HIV. I don\u2019t know how much longer I have. I don\u2019t know if I\u2019m going to survive six years.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019ll never think of that verse the same! I can <em>picture<\/em> you\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014in that cell. I just thought: \u201cThere are so many people, listening, that are thinking they\u2019re at the end; and there is no hope\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014 \u201cthere\u2019s no way God can do anything and redeem their life\u2014and I\u2019m sitting here, going: \u2018Yes, He can! You don\u2019t know.\u2019\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Christopher:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And I just want to give people hope: \u201cDon\u2019t quit!\u201d \u201cDon\u2019t quit on your marriage,\u201d \u201cDon\u2019t quit on your life,\u201d \u201cDon\u2019t even think about\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Christopher:<\/strong> \u2014or \u201c\u2026on your kids.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Ahhh, good! And the thing that I thought, too, was: \u201cYou were a captive.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Christopher:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u201cYou were <em>in jail<\/em> as a captive, and Jesus set you free!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Christopher:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And I think that\u2019s what we\u2019re saying: \u201cJesus wants to set all of us free,\u201d\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Christopher:<\/strong> Amen.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014because, sometimes, we\u2019re in situations, where we feel like there is no hope and \u201cI am a captive, and I\u2019ll be like this forever.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Christopher:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Were you aware, as the light was coming on in your life, spiritually\u2014were you aware: \u201cThis is going to have implications for my sexuality\u201d?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Christopher:<\/strong> No; one thing about my memoir that I had critiqued\u2014Jerry Jenkins\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Christopher:<\/strong> \u2014you know, he helped me and even kind of read over my book. He was like, \u201cSo when exactly did you become a Christian?\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cI\u2019m glad you brought that up, because I left it open.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> But there was a point in time when\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Christopher:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014when you moved from death to life.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Christopher:<\/strong> Oh, yes!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You just may not <em>know<\/em> what that spiritual moment was in your life.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Christopher:<\/strong> Right; right. I definitely know the time\u2014it was while I was in prison.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Christopher:<\/strong> You know, I walked in\u2014drug addict; drug, not only dealer, supplier; I was embracing same-sex relationships\u2014I was embracing this as <em>who I was.<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Christopher:<\/strong> I was still holding on\u2014I thought I could have my cake and eat it, too; right?\u2014don\u2019t we all?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Christopher:<\/strong> And I really, really thought\/I did think I could have God\u2014and I could have, you know, my same-sex relationships or, maybe, <em>a <\/em>same-sex relationship\u2014it took time, and it took changing my identity. That\u2019s so important; because once God broke that paradigm, then, for me, it was just so easy to say: \u201cOkay; this is <em>not<\/em> who I am,\u201d \u201cThis is what I do,\u201d \u201cThis is the desires that I might have.\u201d Then I was able to not make it so personal\u2014and not feel like I have to hold onto it\u2014because we hold onto things; because we think: \u201cI have nothing else! This is all I am!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And we think that\u2019s the only thing that will bring us satisfaction.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Christopher:<\/strong> Yes!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You know, there are people you could talk to today\u2014there are books that you could get\u2014that would tell you: \u201cYou <em>can <\/em>be a Christian and continue to have same-sex relationships. We\u2019ve misunderstood the Bible on this.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Christopher:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You\u2019ve come to a point, where you disagree with that pretty strongly.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Christopher:<\/strong> Oh, yes! I do. And it\u2019s more than simply just saying, \u201cIt is sin.\u201d Honestly, the majority of these books\u2014what they do is\u2014they focus upon the six passages, and they deconstruct them. And of course, I could go into them\u2014I\u2019ve studied the Hebrew and Greek in seminary\u2014actually, I committed\/all of my papers were on that; because I knew that was my burden. I studied, and studied, and studied, and found out that those interpretations are lacking.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut honestly, even if those passages aren\u2019t in Scripture, we could still look at God\u2019s Word, and specifically Jesus\u2019s words in Mark, Chapter 10\/Matthew, Chapter 19, when He is questioned about divorce. His answer was not going back to the Law\u2014not going to Leviticus or Deuteronomy\u2014the Mosaic Law. He went back to Genesis; and He said, \u201cIn the beginning, the Creator made them male and female, and the two shall become one.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat He was doing\u2014and this is what we often miss\u2014He was being asked about divorce. All He needed to do was to say, you know, \u201cThe two shall become one,\u201d from Genesis 2:24\u2014that\u2019s all He needed to do! But then He throws in this component\/this aspect from, actually, not Genesis 2\u2014He goes all the way back, even further, to \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGenesis 1: \u201cIn the beginning, the Creator made them male and female.\u201d That actually is the <em>Imago Dei<\/em> passage\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Christopher:<\/strong> \u2014which then <em>connects<\/em>, not only that marriage is male and female\u2014there\u2019s no other way of understanding why Jesus was saying that. Jesus was throwing that in; because remember, He is talking about divorce. He threw that in\u2014the \u201cmale and female\u201d\u2014why?\u2014because there is <em>no marriage <\/em>without the male\/female complementary\u2014period!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> So when people come up to you, and they say, \u201cBut Jesus never said anything about a homosexual lifestyle,\u201d is that what you would refer to?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Christopher:<\/strong> Well, the first thing I would say, \u201cJesus also never said anything about incest.\u201d Silence is never a good enough argument for or against, unless you have other information. I would then point to: \u201cYes; He didn\u2019t say anything <em>specifically<\/em> about homosexuality, but He definitely <em>taught<\/em> on sexuality.\u201d I would point them to Jesus\u2019s own words\u2014Mark, Chapter 10, and Matthew 19\u2014and say, \u201cLook; He\u2019s talking about divorce.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSometimes, I\u2019ve heard the argument, where people say: \u201cWell, you know, this whole passage is only about divorce. He was asked a question about divorce, and he was answering.\u201d My response is, \u201cJesus is <em>never <\/em>constrained by the questioner\u2014ever!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014ever.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Christopher:<\/strong> This is a perfect example. He was asked about divorce and, then, he taught them about marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So when it dawned on you that your new life in Christ was going to have implications for your sexuality\u2014that this was now off-limits for you\u2014did you grieve that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Christopher:<\/strong> You know, it was <em>not<\/em> easy. It would\u2019ve been easier, you know\u2014have my cake and eat it, too. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Christopher:<\/strong> I could try to have my God and be in a monogamous same-sex relationship\u2014you know, I could, then, you know, be a gay Christian\u2014why not?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat I see\u2014kind of the gay Christian movement\u2014is, in essence, kind of a pseudo-\/a neo-prosperity gospel movement: \u201cIf you want it, get it!\u201d You have completely lacking\u2014suffering\u2014no suffering. And let me tell you, \u201cThere is no gospel without suffering\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Christopher:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cperiod.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd it\u2019s not a suffering that is like \u201cso sad\u201d and we\u2019re so\u2026no! We suffer with <em>joy<\/em>, because we know all of this doesn\u2019t matter. Yes; people could say I\u2019m suffering, because I\u2019m not married. I don\u2019t look at it that way at all. I\u2019m living a way that\u2019s so <em>full<\/em>\u2014more full than it <em>ever<\/em> was\u2014as a single man. Yes, I\u2019m not in a relationship. Yes, I don\u2019t have children, yet, now. Yes, I don\u2019t have a spouse now; but I\u2019m living a very, very full\u2014full life. It is <em>full<\/em> of joy.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI don\u2019t want to make homosexuality, or the fact that I have same-sex attractions, primarily an issue of suffering, or even primarily an issue of victimhood. Instead of approaching this primarily as an issue of, \u201cI\u2019m a victim,\u201d or \u201cI\u2019m suffering,\u201d I think we need to, actually, approach this as: \u201cHow can I give myself more for the sake of the gospel and for the sake of Christ?\u201d And that <em>is <\/em>going to be difficult! That is going to be <em>not easy.<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think, as a lot of Christians, we should be challenged. I look at that statement: \u201cIf anyone would come after Me, he must deny himself, pick up his cross, and follow Me.\u201d We want to jump over those two things\u2014we don\u2019t want to deny ourselves; we don\u2019t want to pick up our cross\u2014we just want to follow Jesus. Following Jesus should <em>cost<\/em> us <em>everything<\/em>. If it <em>hasn\u2019t<\/em>, we may be following the wrong Jesus.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think, many times, we\u2019re following this concept of Jesus that He\u2019ll just give me everything that I want\u2014that I will be comfortable\/that I\u2019ll have all of my needs met.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And if He loves me, that\u2019s what He\u2019ll do.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Christopher:<\/strong> Right; and \u201cIf I\u2019m obedient\/\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Christopher:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cif I do all the right things\u2014if I go to church\/if I read the Bible\u2014then, I will have an easy life.\u201d No; actually, if you do all these things, and you grow in Christ, you may suffer.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u2014as you walk through your life <em>now<\/em>. And you talk about this in your book\u2014talk about temptation; because it could almost appear: \u201cHey, man! You\u2019ve got this down.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Christopher:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cYou walked away from this lifestyle. You\u2019re a single man; you\u2019re not tempted.\u201d But you talk honestly in the book about: \u201cHow does a man\u201d\/\u201dHow does a woman\u201d\u2014single, married, you name it\u2014\u201cdeal with the temptation?\u201d The desire is still there. What do you do with them?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Christopher:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Talk about that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Christopher:<\/strong> Yes, yes. I wanted to differentiate; because we talk about same-sex <em>attractions<\/em>\u2014and I use that term in the book\u2014but I said, \u201cLet\u2019s just use the very biblical terms: desire and temptation.\u201d I had this chapter on temptation, where I wanted to help people realize that temptation, in and of itself, is not sinful. \u201cJesus was tempted in every way,\u201d the writer of Hebrews writes, \u201cbut He was without sin.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat I often see is\u2014as human beings\u2014we always tend to kind of go from one extreme to the other; right? People on one extreme are, maybe, individuals who might experience same-sex attractions; and they\u2019re just beating themselves up about it. You know\u2014they\u2019re like: \u201cMan! I\u2019m just\/I\u2019m just the worst! God <em>hates<\/em> me! I could never\u2026.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to encourage those people and say: \u201cYou know what? You\u2019re a sinner like everyone else. You\u2019re being tempted with sin. If you\u2019re not giving in to those temptations, don\u2019t beat yourself up about it. You\u2019re like everyone else.\u201d I want to kind of encourage those.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut then, the other side of the spectrum are those people, who are being tempted, and they\u2019re like toying with it\u2014it begins festering and growing. I want to, then, chastise those individuals\u2014to say, \u201cDon\u2019t toy with temptation.\u201d Though temptation, in and of itself, is not sinful; it is not innocent. It is not something that we can just kind of play with.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Our perspective should not be: \u201cHow close to temptation can I get without stumbling?\u201d It\u2019s: \u201cHow far away can I stay from temptation so that I don\u2019t stumble?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Christopher:<\/strong> Yes; exactly!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; and I was thinking, you know\u2014as you flew down here for this radio\u2014it\u2019s pretty interesting; you will <em>not<\/em> travel alone.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Christopher:<\/strong> Yes; yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Talk about fleeing temptation\u2014why is that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Christopher:<\/strong> Yes; I have a policy. I do a lot of traveling; I speak at churches. And I know that I have a bullseye on my back. The enemy is trying to pull me down, because he doesn\u2019t want the message that I\u2019m talking about\u2014God\u2019s grace and truth on this issue of sexuality to go forward\u2014so I have that. And also, I know what I\u2019m capable of; temptation is not something that I want to toy with. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tEven people\u2014young men\/young women, who are wrestling with temptation\u2014and who isn\u2019t?\u2014I look to Scripture and how\u2014just like I said, in Hebrews, \u201cJesus was tempted in <em>every <\/em>way.\u201d Why is that in there?\u2014it\u2019s because He has been in our shoes. He knows <em>exactly<\/em> what we\u2019re going through. I know people then say: \u201cWait a second! Jesus never sinned. So if He never sinned, how can He <em>really<\/em> know what I\u2019m going through?\u201d\u2014like because He\u2019s sinless; right? We talk about the impeccability of Christ\u2014\u201cJesus was incapable of sinning; so He doesn\u2019t <em>really, really <\/em>know what I\u2019m going through.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis is where that\u2019s <em>not<\/em> true, because\u2014think about this: all of us around the table\u2014we\u2019ve all been tempted. What happens? Sometimes, maybe many times, we give in. So, actually, we don\u2019t <em>endure<\/em> temptation to the end. Jesus Christ endured temptation <em>all the way<\/em> to the end; so actually, the fact that He <em>never<\/em> sinned really tells us that He, of all people, <em>completely<\/em> knows what it is to resist sin; and He\u2019s on my side. He knows <em>exactly<\/em> what I\u2019m going through\u2014that, to me, is comforting!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> So let\u2019s say we have all these moms out here; and we\u2019re thinking: \u201cYes! I want my son\u201d or \u201c\u2026my daughter to have this obedience in Christ,\u201d and \u201cI want them to walk with Jesus like this.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m thinking: \u201cWith my kids, raising three sons,\u201d\u2014you know\u2014\u201cOur kids are going through temptation all the time. How can we help them, as parents, face temptation without saying, \u2018Do you want me to come with you on the date?\u2019\u201d [Laughter] You know?!\u2014because moms\u2014we would like to do that!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u201c\u2026follow you everywhere you go?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> That would be a \u201cNo!\u201d [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Christopher:<\/strong> Right; right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Moms\u2014we want to help our kids.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Christopher:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> We\u2019re <em>desperate <\/em>to help them. How can we help them?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It\u2019s not just moms; it\u2019s dads, too.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Christopher:<\/strong> Yes, yes. I\u2019m just going to come back to maybe what might seem like a simple answer but <em>is<\/em> <em>not<\/em> simple. It is praying and <em>fasting<\/em>. My mom <em>fasted<\/em> every Monday for eight years. My mom will even say this in her own testimony\u2014she fasted for me, and God changed <em>her<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Wow!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Christopher:<\/strong> We need to pray privately; we need to pray corporately.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Moms and dads: \u201cPrayer works.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Christopher:<\/strong> Yes!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Our prayers make a difference in the lives of people that we love and in our children.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Christopher:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You know, as we have this conversation, I just keep thinking: \u201cSomebody is going to shape your thinking about your sexuality, about your desires, about what\u2019s acceptable, about what\u2019s not. Somebody is going to shape your children\u2019s thinking about that. The question is: \u2018Is it going to be God and His Word?\u2014or is it going to be a culture that is eager to catechize your kids, and catechize each one of us, into thinking, \u201cThis is okay. This is just normal. This is just biology.\u201d\u2019\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou\u2019re getting indoctrinated by movies; you\u2019re getting indoctrinated by popular culture\/by songs. This is where we have to renew our minds: \u201cDon\u2019t be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind.\u201d And this is a book that helps us do that. We\u2019ve got copies of Christopher\u2019s book in our <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>Resource Center. You can go, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com and request your copy of <em>Holy Sexuality and the Gospel. <\/em>Again, the website is FamilyLifeToday.com; or if you\u2019d prefer to call to order, our number is 1-800-FL-TODAY; 1-800-358-6329; 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, I\u2019m always encouraged when we have these kinds of conversations; because we hear from so many listeners, who say: \u201cThank you for the clarity,\u201d and \u201cThank you for the tone with which you\u2019ve addressed this subject.\u201d Here, at <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, that\u2019s our goal: we want to provide you with practical biblical help and hope for your marriage and your family. We want to effectively develop godly marriages and families. We believe godly marriages and families can change the world.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAll that we do here would not be possible if it weren\u2019t for your fellow listeners, some of you, who have donated to make this radio program a reality. Every time you make a donation, you\u2019re helping to expand the <em>reach<\/em> of this program: more people, more regularly, hearing what God\u2019s Word has to say about marriage and family. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThank you to those of you who are monthly Legacy Partners, and to those of you who, from time to time, will make a donation in support of what we\u2019re doing, here, at FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>. We\u2019re grateful for you. If you can make a donation, right now, we\u2019d like to say, \u201cThank you,\u201d by sending you a copy of Dave and Ann Wilson\u2019s new book, which is called <em>Vertical Marriage.<\/em> Ask for your copy when you donate at FamilyLifeToday.com, or call to donate at 1-800-358-6329; 1-800-FL-TODAY.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, it\u2019s been good for us to spend some time in conversation this week with Christopher Yuan. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDavid Robbins, the president of FamilyLife, has been with us this week. I know you have found this conversation to be helpful and challenging. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> Yes; you know, today made me reflect on a part of my story, when identity in Christ became something I think I first fully understood. I had heard the term, but it was when it really began to take root deeper in my soul. Really, it\u2019s something I haven\u2019t stopped learning. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI was sitting on a beach at the end of a mission trip to Romania. We were in a place called Costa Nest, which we affectionately called Costa Nasty; because it was nasty. [Laughter] I was reading my Bible, looking over the Black Sea, recounting the ways that God had shown up that summer. I read, I think, Psalm 139, for the first time that I really remember reading it, where God was overwhelming me with His power, and His knowledge, and His love for me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThree questions came to my mind, that I remember journaling about, and being really honest about. I actually started telling myself, \u201cI\u2019m going to journal about these three questions every day until I believe, in my core, that they\u2019re really true.\u201d And the three questions were: \u201cDo I believe that I am complete in Christ?\u2014nothing else is needed?\u201d The second question was: \u201cDo I believe that godliness is more profitable than anything?\u201d And the third question was: \u201cDo I really believe Jesus satisfies my soul more than anything else?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThese are three questions I haven\u2019t really stopped asking. I got to a point, where I really go, \u201cThese are true in my life, and they\u2019ve begun to have implications on my life.\u201d For a believer, everything is meant to flow from our identity being firmly rooted in Christ. Oh, how it changes things when we live out\u2014not just being a Christian family that does all the right things that Christians do\u2014but to a family of Christ-followers, who put Christ before everything.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That\u2019s what abiding in Christ is all about; isn\u2019t it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; thank you, David. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI hope you have a great weekend. I hope you and your family are able to worship together in your local church this weekend. Hope you can join us back on Monday when we\u2019re going to talk about how we are to complement one another in marriage\u2014not how we say nice things to each other like, \u201cYou look nice today,\u201d\u2014but how we fit together in marriage. Aaron and Jamie Ivey join us for that conversation. I hope you can be with us for that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch; got some extra help from Bruce Goff and, of course, our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2021 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:32:03"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["29.34M"],"filesize_raw":["30766217"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-306833.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-306833.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom 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Yuan knows what it's like to be a captive. A former drug dealer and homosexual who discovered he had HIV while serving time in prison, Yuan shares how God got his attention and eventually, his heart.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2021-04-30.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Christopher Yuan is a man who has, throughout his life, struggled with same-sex attraction. He admits there are aspects of his life that have been difficult, but he says he still knows where to find joy. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Christopher:<\/strong> People could say I\u2019m suffering because I\u2019m not married. I don\u2019t look at it that way at all. I\u2019m living a way that\u2019s so <em>full<\/em>\u2014more full than it <em>ever<\/em> was\u2014as a single man. Yes, I\u2019m not in a relationship. Yes, I don\u2019t have children, yet, now. Yes, I don\u2019t have a spouse now; but I\u2019m living a very, very full\u2014full life. It <em>is<\/em> full of joy. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Friday, April 30<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I\u2019m Bob Lepine. You can find us online at FamilyLifeToday.com. How do we make sense of the reality of suffering in marriage and in family relationships? How does that square up with our walk with Christ? We\u2019re going to spend some time thinking about that today with Christopher Yuan. Stay with us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. Dave, you said a little earlier this week that you have had countless conversations, over the last decade, with people in your church\/people you know, who are trying to deal\u2014either for themselves, or with a friend, or a loved one\u2014with the question: \u201cHow do I understand sexual confusion in our day?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBack when we were in elementary school, it seemed simple: \u201cThere are boys and girls;\u00a0 boys like girls, and girls like boys. We grow up; we get married,\u201d\u2014it all seemed simple. Today, it\u2019s like, \u201cDo you think you are a boy or a girl?\u201d and \u201cAre you <em>really<\/em> a boy?\u201d \u201cShould you try to change?\u201d and \u201cWho do you really like?\u201d and \u201cWho are you really going to marry?\u201d \u201cYou can marry whoever you want.\u201d This is a whole different world we\u2019re living in. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It is a whole different world. I honestly don\u2019t know if I go a week\u2014I know I don\u2019t go two weeks\u2014[people] asking these kind of questions. They\u2019re <em>centered<\/em> on sexual confusion\/gender confusion. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You know, you look at them; and they <em>really<\/em> want help.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And I think they, actually, really want truth.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014and to know how to bring grace and truth together. I think that\u2019s where it gets tricky for us, because we can deliver truth; but you can bludgeon people with truth; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think that we need to learn how to do this. People are looking\u2014that\u2019s why I feel like this book is going to make such a big impact\u2014because people are looking for answers: \u201cHow do I have these conversations?\u201d \u201cHow do I respond?\u201d \u201cHow do I help people in my church?\u201d and \u201cWhat does this look like, in today\u2019s age, when things are changing so quickly?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> The book you\u2019re talking about is a book called <em>Holy Sexuality and the Gospel. <\/em>The subtitle is <em>Sex, Desire, and Relationships Shaped by God\u2019s Grand Story. <\/em>The author is Dr. Christopher Yuan. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWelcome back. I was going to say, \u201cChris\u201d; but I\u2019m going to say, \u201cChristopher\u201d because, as we\u2019ve already talked about this week, that\u2019s your identity\u2014[Laughter]\u2014right? \u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Christopher:<\/strong> Yes; thank you, Bob.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014as a follower of Christ.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis is your second book. Your first book was a memoir of your own story\u2014I mentioned this\u2014but if folks have not heard your story, they can go to FamilyLifeToday.com and listen to the interview that we did with you and your mom.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Christopher:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> It\u2019s a remarkable story of a prodigal, who grew up and headed off to dental school\u2014and said, \u201cI think I\u2019m gay,\u201d\u2014and started living out a gay lifestyle. You were involved in drugs; you wound up in jail; that\u2019s where you met Christ. You came out of jail a new man. You wound up a student at Moody Bible Institute.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Christopher:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Today, you\u2019re a professor\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Christopher:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014at Moody Bible Institute.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I think we\u2019re sitting with the modern-day Apostle Paul. [Laughter] I mean, the guy\u2019s in prison! [Laughter] And I didn\u2019t know your story before I picked up your book. Even reading, as you lay in your jail cell\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, wait! Wait; I want him to share that part.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You can\u2019t interrupt me! You <em>always<\/em> do this! [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I know! I want to; because I want to hear Christopher share the part, where you\u2019re lying in your cell, in the bed\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Christopher:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014tell us what caught your attention when you were lying there.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Christopher:<\/strong> Okay; well, just a little backstory. I was in prison, you know, for drugs, of course; and of course, I needed to be clean. Not all gays and lesbians do drugs\u2014some do; some don\u2019t\u2014that is part of my story.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2014not only was just sentenced to six years\u2014I just, you know, thought I was going to get out, scot-free; I was fooling myself\u2014but then, I also got the news that I was HIV-positive. It was just the whole world was falling down on me; life was just worthless at that moment. I was lying there\u2014they actually just moved me to another cell; I was like transferring\u2014and so I was in another cell, and no one else was in there\u2014just down, down, down. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLying there\u2014look up at the metal bunk\u2014there was just kind of the usual scratch graffiti, and I looked over in one other corner. Someone had scribbled something\u2014I looked; and it read, \u201cIf you\u2019re bored, read Jeremiah 29:11\u201d\u2014[Laughter]\u2014\u201c\u2018For I know the plans that I have for you,\u2019 declares the Lord; \u2018plans to prosper you and not to harm you; plans to give you hope and a future.\u2019\u201d I didn\u2019t know what that verse was, and that whole verse wasn\u2019t written. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMy mom even says, \u201cYou have to tell the whole rest.\u201d So remember\u2014I was just moved to a brand-new cell\u2014I didn\u2019t have my Bible. I mean, they literally strip you down and take everything\u2014I had nothing. I went into that prison cell with nothing, but they had garbage; and you know, just kind of food and paper plates. I got up; and I was like, \u201cI don\u2019t know what Jeremiah 29:11 is.\u201d I kind of got up; and I was just going through\u2014they have a locker there with\u2014there\u2019s plastic cups, and there was a Bible in the back. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Wow!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Christopher:<\/strong> So I opened it up. I had to go to the Table of Contents, because I don\u2019t know Jeremiah, where that is! I mean, I kind of knew that it was probably a Bible verse. I read, and then, if you kind of go down after that\u2014how it says that \u201cGod will call you back from captivity.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Wow!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Christopher:<\/strong> All the verses\u2014that was for <em>me<\/em>. Yes, Jeremiah was writing to a <em>rebellious<\/em> nation that had just turned so far from God and, now, He was turning them into exile; but God was telling them, through the mouth of His prophet, \u201cI still have a plan for you!\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat was meaningful for me that, you know, in the midst of my just tragedy\u2014you know, six years\u2014I mean, you know, at that time, this was December \u201998; and I thought: \u201cI don\u2019t know! I\u2019ve got HIV. I don\u2019t know how much longer I have. I don\u2019t know if I\u2019m going to survive six years.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019ll never think of that verse the same! I can <em>picture<\/em> you\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014in that cell. I just thought: \u201cThere are so many people, listening, that are thinking they\u2019re at the end; and there is no hope\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014 \u201cthere\u2019s no way God can do anything and redeem their life\u2014and I\u2019m sitting here, going: \u2018Yes, He can! You don\u2019t know.\u2019\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Christopher:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And I just want to give people hope: \u201cDon\u2019t quit!\u201d \u201cDon\u2019t quit on your marriage,\u201d \u201cDon\u2019t quit on your life,\u201d \u201cDon\u2019t even think about\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Christopher:<\/strong> \u2014or \u201c\u2026on your kids.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Ahhh, good! And the thing that I thought, too, was: \u201cYou were a captive.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Christopher:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u201cYou were <em>in jail<\/em> as a captive, and Jesus set you free!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Christopher:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And I think that\u2019s what we\u2019re saying: \u201cJesus wants to set all of us free,\u201d\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Christopher:<\/strong> Amen.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014because, sometimes, we\u2019re in situations, where we feel like there is no hope and \u201cI am a captive, and I\u2019ll be like this forever.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Christopher:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Were you aware, as the light was coming on in your life, spiritually\u2014were you aware: \u201cThis is going to have implications for my sexuality\u201d?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Christopher:<\/strong> No; one thing about my memoir that I had critiqued\u2014Jerry Jenkins\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Christopher:<\/strong> \u2014you know, he helped me and even kind of read over my book. He was like, \u201cSo when exactly did you become a Christian?\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cI\u2019m glad you brought that up, because I left it open.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> But there was a point in time when\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Christopher:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014when you moved from death to life.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Christopher:<\/strong> Oh, yes!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You just may not <em>know<\/em> what that spiritual moment was in your life.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Christopher:<\/strong> Right; right. I definitely know the time\u2014it was while I was in prison.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Christopher:<\/strong> You know, I walked in\u2014drug addict; drug, not only dealer, supplier; I was embracing same-sex relationships\u2014I was embracing this as <em>who I was.<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Christopher:<\/strong> I was still holding on\u2014I thought I could have my cake and eat it, too; right?\u2014don\u2019t we all?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Christopher:<\/strong> And I really, really thought\/I did think I could have God\u2014and I could have, you know, my same-sex relationships or, maybe, <em>a <\/em>same-sex relationship\u2014it took time, and it took changing my identity. That\u2019s so important; because once God broke that paradigm, then, for me, it was just so easy to say: \u201cOkay; this is <em>not<\/em> who I am,\u201d \u201cThis is what I do,\u201d \u201cThis is the desires that I might have.\u201d Then I was able to not make it so personal\u2014and not feel like I have to hold onto it\u2014because we hold onto things; because we think: \u201cI have nothing else! This is all I am!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And we think that\u2019s the only thing that will bring us satisfaction.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Christopher:<\/strong> Yes!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You know, there are people you could talk to today\u2014there are books that you could get\u2014that would tell you: \u201cYou <em>can <\/em>be a Christian and continue to have same-sex relationships. We\u2019ve misunderstood the Bible on this.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Christopher:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You\u2019ve come to a point, where you disagree with that pretty strongly.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Christopher:<\/strong> Oh, yes! I do. And it\u2019s more than simply just saying, \u201cIt is sin.\u201d Honestly, the majority of these books\u2014what they do is\u2014they focus upon the six passages, and they deconstruct them. And of course, I could go into them\u2014I\u2019ve studied the Hebrew and Greek in seminary\u2014actually, I committed\/all of my papers were on that; because I knew that was my burden. I studied, and studied, and studied, and found out that those interpretations are lacking.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut honestly, even if those passages aren\u2019t in Scripture, we could still look at God\u2019s Word, and specifically Jesus\u2019s words in Mark, Chapter 10\/Matthew, Chapter 19, when He is questioned about divorce. His answer was not going back to the Law\u2014not going to Leviticus or Deuteronomy\u2014the Mosaic Law. He went back to Genesis; and He said, \u201cIn the beginning, the Creator made them male and female, and the two shall become one.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat He was doing\u2014and this is what we often miss\u2014He was being asked about divorce. All He needed to do was to say, you know, \u201cThe two shall become one,\u201d from Genesis 2:24\u2014that\u2019s all He needed to do! But then He throws in this component\/this aspect from, actually, not Genesis 2\u2014He goes all the way back, even further, to \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGenesis 1: \u201cIn the beginning, the Creator made them male and female.\u201d That actually is the <em>Imago Dei<\/em> passage\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Christopher:<\/strong> \u2014which then <em>connects<\/em>, not only that marriage is male and female\u2014there\u2019s no other way of understanding why Jesus was saying that. Jesus was throwing that in; because remember, He is talking about divorce. He threw that in\u2014the \u201cmale and female\u201d\u2014why?\u2014because there is <em>no marriage <\/em>without the male\/female complementary\u2014period!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> So when people come up to you, and they say, \u201cBut Jesus never said anything about a homosexual lifestyle,\u201d is that what you would refer to?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Christopher:<\/strong> Well, the first thing I would say, \u201cJesus also never said anything about incest.\u201d Silence is never a good enough argument for or against, unless you have other information. I would then point to: \u201cYes; He didn\u2019t say anything <em>specifically<\/em> about homosexuality, but He definitely <em>taught<\/em> on sexuality.\u201d I would point them to Jesus\u2019s own words\u2014Mark, Chapter 10, and Matthew 19\u2014and say, \u201cLook; He\u2019s talking about divorce.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSometimes, I\u2019ve heard the argument, where people say: \u201cWell, you know, this whole passage is only about divorce. He was asked a question about divorce, and he was answering.\u201d My response is, \u201cJesus is <em>never <\/em>constrained by the questioner\u2014ever!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014ever.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Christopher:<\/strong> This is a perfect example. He was asked about divorce and, then, he taught them about marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So when it dawned on you that your new life in Christ was going to have implications for your sexuality\u2014that this was now off-limits for you\u2014did you grieve that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Christopher:<\/strong> You know, it was <em>not<\/em> easy. It would\u2019ve been easier, you know\u2014have my cake and eat it, too. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Christopher:<\/strong> I could try to have my God and be in a monogamous same-sex relationship\u2014you know, I could, then, you know, be a gay Christian\u2014why not?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat I see\u2014kind of the gay Christian movement\u2014is, in essence, kind of a pseudo-\/a neo-prosperity gospel movement: \u201cIf you want it, get it!\u201d You have completely lacking\u2014suffering\u2014no suffering. And let me tell you, \u201cThere is no gospel without suffering\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Christopher:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cperiod.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd it\u2019s not a suffering that is like \u201cso sad\u201d and we\u2019re so\u2026no! We suffer with <em>joy<\/em>, because we know all of this doesn\u2019t matter. Yes; people could say I\u2019m suffering, because I\u2019m not married. I don\u2019t look at it that way at all. I\u2019m living a way that\u2019s so <em>full<\/em>\u2014more full than it <em>ever<\/em> was\u2014as a single man. Yes, I\u2019m not in a relationship. Yes, I don\u2019t have children, yet, now. Yes, I don\u2019t have a spouse now; but I\u2019m living a very, very full\u2014full life. It is <em>full<\/em> of joy.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI don\u2019t want to make homosexuality, or the fact that I have same-sex attractions, primarily an issue of suffering, or even primarily an issue of victimhood. Instead of approaching this primarily as an issue of, \u201cI\u2019m a victim,\u201d or \u201cI\u2019m suffering,\u201d I think we need to, actually, approach this as: \u201cHow can I give myself more for the sake of the gospel and for the sake of Christ?\u201d And that <em>is <\/em>going to be difficult! That is going to be <em>not easy.<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think, as a lot of Christians, we should be challenged. I look at that statement: \u201cIf anyone would come after Me, he must deny himself, pick up his cross, and follow Me.\u201d We want to jump over those two things\u2014we don\u2019t want to deny ourselves; we don\u2019t want to pick up our cross\u2014we just want to follow Jesus. Following Jesus should <em>cost<\/em> us <em>everything<\/em>. If it <em>hasn\u2019t<\/em>, we may be following the wrong Jesus.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think, many times, we\u2019re following this concept of Jesus that He\u2019ll just give me everything that I want\u2014that I will be comfortable\/that I\u2019ll have all of my needs met.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And if He loves me, that\u2019s what He\u2019ll do.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Christopher:<\/strong> Right; and \u201cIf I\u2019m obedient\/\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Christopher:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cif I do all the right things\u2014if I go to church\/if I read the Bible\u2014then, I will have an easy life.\u201d No; actually, if you do all these things, and you grow in Christ, you may suffer.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u2014as you walk through your life <em>now<\/em>. And you talk about this in your book\u2014talk about temptation; because it could almost appear: \u201cHey, man! You\u2019ve got this down.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Christopher:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cYou walked away from this lifestyle. You\u2019re a single man; you\u2019re not tempted.\u201d But you talk honestly in the book about: \u201cHow does a man\u201d\/\u201dHow does a woman\u201d\u2014single, married, you name it\u2014\u201cdeal with the temptation?\u201d The desire is still there. What do you do with them?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Christopher:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Talk about that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Christopher:<\/strong> Yes, yes. I wanted to differentiate; because we talk about same-sex <em>attractions<\/em>\u2014and I use that term in the book\u2014but I said, \u201cLet\u2019s just use the very biblical terms: desire and temptation.\u201d I had this chapter on temptation, where I wanted to help people realize that temptation, in and of itself, is not sinful. \u201cJesus was tempted in every way,\u201d the writer of Hebrews writes, \u201cbut He was without sin.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat I often see is\u2014as human beings\u2014we always tend to kind of go from one extreme to the other; right? People on one extreme are, maybe, individuals who might experience same-sex attractions; and they\u2019re just beating themselves up about it. You know\u2014they\u2019re like: \u201cMan! I\u2019m just\/I\u2019m just the worst! God <em>hates<\/em> me! I could never\u2026.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to encourage those people and say: \u201cYou know what? You\u2019re a sinner like everyone else. You\u2019re being tempted with sin. If you\u2019re not giving in to those temptations, don\u2019t beat yourself up about it. You\u2019re like everyone else.\u201d I want to kind of encourage those.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut then, the other side of the spectrum are those people, who are being tempted, and they\u2019re like toying with it\u2014it begins festering and growing. I want to, then, chastise those individuals\u2014to say, \u201cDon\u2019t toy with temptation.\u201d Though temptation, in and of itself, is not sinful; it is not innocent. It is not something that we can just kind of play with.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Our perspective should not be: \u201cHow close to temptation can I get without stumbling?\u201d It\u2019s: \u201cHow far away can I stay from temptation so that I don\u2019t stumble?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Christopher:<\/strong> Yes; exactly!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; and I was thinking, you know\u2014as you flew down here for this radio\u2014it\u2019s pretty interesting; you will <em>not<\/em> travel alone.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Christopher:<\/strong> Yes; yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Talk about fleeing temptation\u2014why is that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Christopher:<\/strong> Yes; I have a policy. I do a lot of traveling; I speak at churches. And I know that I have a bullseye on my back. The enemy is trying to pull me down, because he doesn\u2019t want the message that I\u2019m talking about\u2014God\u2019s grace and truth on this issue of sexuality to go forward\u2014so I have that. And also, I know what I\u2019m capable of; temptation is not something that I want to toy with. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tEven people\u2014young men\/young women, who are wrestling with temptation\u2014and who isn\u2019t?\u2014I look to Scripture and how\u2014just like I said, in Hebrews, \u201cJesus was tempted in <em>every <\/em>way.\u201d Why is that in there?\u2014it\u2019s because He has been in our shoes. He knows <em>exactly<\/em> what we\u2019re going through. I know people then say: \u201cWait a second! Jesus never sinned. So if He never sinned, how can He <em>really<\/em> know what I\u2019m going through?\u201d\u2014like because He\u2019s sinless; right? We talk about the impeccability of Christ\u2014\u201cJesus was incapable of sinning; so He doesn\u2019t <em>really, really <\/em>know what I\u2019m going through.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis is where that\u2019s <em>not<\/em> true, because\u2014think about this: all of us around the table\u2014we\u2019ve all been tempted. What happens? Sometimes, maybe many times, we give in. So, actually, we don\u2019t <em>endure<\/em> temptation to the end. Jesus Christ endured temptation <em>all the way<\/em> to the end; so actually, the fact that He <em>never<\/em> sinned really tells us that He, of all people, <em>completely<\/em> knows what it is to resist sin; and He\u2019s on my side. He knows <em>exactly<\/em> what I\u2019m going through\u2014that, to me, is comforting!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> So let\u2019s say we have all these moms out here; and we\u2019re thinking: \u201cYes! I want my son\u201d or \u201c\u2026my daughter to have this obedience in Christ,\u201d and \u201cI want them to walk with Jesus like this.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m thinking: \u201cWith my kids, raising three sons,\u201d\u2014you know\u2014\u201cOur kids are going through temptation all the time. How can we help them, as parents, face temptation without saying, \u2018Do you want me to come with you on the date?\u2019\u201d [Laughter] You know?!\u2014because moms\u2014we would like to do that!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u201c\u2026follow you everywhere you go?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> That would be a \u201cNo!\u201d [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Christopher:<\/strong> Right; right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Moms\u2014we want to help our kids.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Christopher:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> We\u2019re <em>desperate <\/em>to help them. How can we help them?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It\u2019s not just moms; it\u2019s dads, too.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Christopher:<\/strong> Yes, yes. I\u2019m just going to come back to maybe what might seem like a simple answer but <em>is<\/em> <em>not<\/em> simple. It is praying and <em>fasting<\/em>. My mom <em>fasted<\/em> every Monday for eight years. My mom will even say this in her own testimony\u2014she fasted for me, and God changed <em>her<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Wow!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Christopher:<\/strong> We need to pray privately; we need to pray corporately.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Moms and dads: \u201cPrayer works.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Christopher:<\/strong> Yes!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Our prayers make a difference in the lives of people that we love and in our children.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Christopher:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You know, as we have this conversation, I just keep thinking: \u201cSomebody is going to shape your thinking about your sexuality, about your desires, about what\u2019s acceptable, about what\u2019s not. Somebody is going to shape your children\u2019s thinking about that. The question is: \u2018Is it going to be God and His Word?\u2014or is it going to be a culture that is eager to catechize your kids, and catechize each one of us, into thinking, \u201cThis is okay. This is just normal. This is just biology.\u201d\u2019\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou\u2019re getting indoctrinated by movies; you\u2019re getting indoctrinated by popular culture\/by songs. This is where we have to renew our minds: \u201cDon\u2019t be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind.\u201d And this is a book that helps us do that. We\u2019ve got copies of Christopher\u2019s book in our <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>Resource Center. You can go, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com and request your copy of <em>Holy Sexuality and the Gospel. <\/em>Again, the website is FamilyLifeToday.com; or if you\u2019d prefer to call to order, our number is 1-800-FL-TODAY; 1-800-358-6329; 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, I\u2019m always encouraged when we have these kinds of conversations; because we hear from so many listeners, who say: \u201cThank you for the clarity,\u201d and \u201cThank you for the tone with which you\u2019ve addressed this subject.\u201d Here, at <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, that\u2019s our goal: we want to provide you with practical biblical help and hope for your marriage and your family. We want to effectively develop godly marriages and families. We believe godly marriages and families can change the world.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAll that we do here would not be possible if it weren\u2019t for your fellow listeners, some of you, who have donated to make this radio program a reality. Every time you make a donation, you\u2019re helping to expand the <em>reach<\/em> of this program: more people, more regularly, hearing what God\u2019s Word has to say about marriage and family. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThank you to those of you who are monthly Legacy Partners, and to those of you who, from time to time, will make a donation in support of what we\u2019re doing, here, at FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>. We\u2019re grateful for you. If you can make a donation, right now, we\u2019d like to say, \u201cThank you,\u201d by sending you a copy of Dave and Ann Wilson\u2019s new book, which is called <em>Vertical Marriage.<\/em> Ask for your copy when you donate at FamilyLifeToday.com, or call to donate at 1-800-358-6329; 1-800-FL-TODAY.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, it\u2019s been good for us to spend some time in conversation this week with Christopher Yuan. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDavid Robbins, the president of FamilyLife, has been with us this week. I know you have found this conversation to be helpful and challenging. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> Yes; you know, today made me reflect on a part of my story, when identity in Christ became something I think I first fully understood. I had heard the term, but it was when it really began to take root deeper in my soul. Really, it\u2019s something I haven\u2019t stopped learning. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI was sitting on a beach at the end of a mission trip to Romania. We were in a place called Costa Nest, which we affectionately called Costa Nasty; because it was nasty. [Laughter] I was reading my Bible, looking over the Black Sea, recounting the ways that God had shown up that summer. I read, I think, Psalm 139, for the first time that I really remember reading it, where God was overwhelming me with His power, and His knowledge, and His love for me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThree questions came to my mind, that I remember journaling about, and being really honest about. I actually started telling myself, \u201cI\u2019m going to journal about these three questions every day until I believe, in my core, that they\u2019re really true.\u201d And the three questions were: \u201cDo I believe that I am complete in Christ?\u2014nothing else is needed?\u201d The second question was: \u201cDo I believe that godliness is more profitable than anything?\u201d And the third question was: \u201cDo I really believe Jesus satisfies my soul more than anything else?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThese are three questions I haven\u2019t really stopped asking. I got to a point, where I really go, \u201cThese are true in my life, and they\u2019ve begun to have implications on my life.\u201d For a believer, everything is meant to flow from our identity being firmly rooted in Christ. Oh, how it changes things when we live out\u2014not just being a Christian family that does all the right things that Christians do\u2014but to a family of Christ-followers, who put Christ before everything.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That\u2019s what abiding in Christ is all about; isn\u2019t it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; thank you, David. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI hope you have a great weekend. I hope you and your family are able to worship together in your local church this weekend. Hope you can join us back on Monday when we\u2019re going to talk about how we are to complement one another in marriage\u2014not how we say nice things to each other like, \u201cYou look nice today,\u201d\u2014but how we fit together in marriage. Aaron and Jamie Ivey join us for that conversation. I hope you can be with us for that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch; got some extra help from Bruce Goff and, of course, our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2021 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/306833","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=306833"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=306833"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=306833"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=306833"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=306833"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=306833"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=306833"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}