{"id":306827,"date":"2021-04-23T07:00:05","date_gmt":"2021-04-23T11:00:05","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/turning-toward-home\/"},"modified":"2021-04-23T07:00:05","modified_gmt":"2021-04-23T11:00:05","slug":"turning-toward-home","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/turning-toward-home\/","title":{"rendered":"Turning Toward Home"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Matt Hammitt had assumed loving Jesus would overcome his neglect of his marriage. But a moment at the dining table changed everything when his wife, Sarah, made the desperate plea, &#8220;I need you to lead me.&#8221;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2021-04-23.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:29:07","filesize":"26.65M","filesize_raw":"27948927","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2082,2849,2837,2901],"tags":[2877],"podcast_series":[8388],"cwp_profile":[9647],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-306827","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-communication","category-drifting-apart","category-fathers","category-husbands","tag-marriage","podcast_series-lead-me","cwp_profile-matt-and-sarah-hammitt","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/306827\/turning-toward-home","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/306827\/turning-toward-home","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"jMXk4fKNRq\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/turning-toward-home\/\">Turning Toward Home<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/turning-toward-home\/embed\/#?secret=jMXk4fKNRq\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Turning Toward Home&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"jMXk4fKNRq\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg",508,508,false]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"kfairris@familylife.com","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/kfairrisfamilylife-com\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"Matt Hammitt had assumed loving Jesus would overcome his neglect of his marriage. But a moment at the dining table changed everything when his wife, Sarah, made the desperate plea, \"I need you to lead me.\"","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2021-04-23.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> As the lead singer for the group Sanctus Real for many years, Matt Hammitt\u2019s job had him travelling more days than he was home. When Matt and Sarah\u2019s son, Bowen, was born with heart problems\/health issues, the couple had to take a sober look at the reality of their relationship and whether their marriage could survive all they were experiencing. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sarah:<\/strong> You know, we possess these attributes that lead to divorce: my husband travels; we have a sick child. I mean, we have all of these odds stacked against us. Yes, there have been moments where it\u2019s like toxic. And, yes, sure\u2014\u201cHave we threatened it to each other once in a while?\u201d\u2014yes, we have. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Friday, April 23<sup>rd<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I\u2019m Bob Lepine. You can find us online at FamilyLifeToday.com. Matt and Sarah Hammitt join us today to talk about things they\u2019ve learned in almost two decades of marriage: things to do and things not to do; things to say and not to say in order to make your marriage the priority it needs to be. Stay with us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. I have a friend, who is in a high-profile job, somebody who is well-known and has a lot of fans. We were at dinner; and he said, \u201cHere is the thing;\u201d\u2014he said\u2014\u201cmy wife is just not impressed by what I do. [Laughter] All these other people are like, \u2018Oh, this is amazing!\u2019 My wife is like, \u2018Yes, it\u2019s good; it\u2019s alright. I mean, what you do; yes.\u2019\u201d He goes, \u201cI don\u2019t get why other people are wowed.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u201cShe\u2019s not impressed with me.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; I mean, your husband is a high-profile guy. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And a lot of people admire him and what he does. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Have you had some of that same\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I sure have had some of that. [Laughter] It\u2019s interesting. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I don\u2019t think she\u2019s ever been impressed. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I\u2019ve been <em>so<\/em> impressed, but what impresses\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You were before we got married. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, I am <em>so<\/em> impressed. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019m kidding. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> But the thing that impresses me the <em>most<\/em> is the way he loves our kids; the way he spends time with them, and plays with them, or reads the Bible with them; and when he talks to me. Those are the things! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> She skipped right over the unimpressive part. [Laughter] I mean, we\u2019ve got to introduce our guests. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019ll tell you something real quick. One night, after I preached all morning, was on the Lions\u2019 sidelines all day\u2014came home <em>exhausted<\/em>; I crawl in bed\u2014she says to me at 11:30 at night,\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I\u2019ll say it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014as I\u2019m closing my eyes,\u2014go ahead; tell them what you said. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I said, \u201cYou know, I watched you this morning at church, leading this entire congregation, and when you pray\u2014oh! You <em>move<\/em> us. We <em>want<\/em> to be with you in this. You\u2019re just so <em>inspiring<\/em>!\u201d And then I said\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And <em>then<\/em>, she adds this\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u201cI wish that guy would live here.\u201d [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sarah:<\/strong> You!!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Actually, word for word, she said, \u201cI wish the guy who led our church would live in this house.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Wow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You know what I said to her? Bob, this is what made me think of it; I said, \u201cI\u2019ve got\u201d\u2014you know, I didn\u2019t respond like a <em>great<\/em> leader. I just responded like\u2014\u201cAre you kidding me?! People think I\u2019m <em>good<\/em>! You think I\u2019m <em>nothing<\/em>. There are so many women that would <em>love<\/em> to be married to me.\u201d That\u2019s what I said. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Wow. [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You know, I was just so hurt by that. Yet, the next day, God said, \u201cI was speaking to you through your wife.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014through your wife, yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So, I had to step up and lead at home. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut we\u2019ve got a high-profile rock star in the studio. And it\u2019s not Bob Lepine from Ambrosia, that we talked about before. [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Matt: <\/strong>That\u2019s so good.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>It\u2019s Matt Hammitt from Sanctus Real, and your wife Sarah is with us. You\u2019ve got four kids now, and you\u2019re in Nashville. You have this legendary career: 20 years with Sanctus Real; Dove Awards; Grammy nominations; albums; thousands in stadiums, listening to you sing. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014including an anthem about\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014what a husband is supposed to be to his wife: a song called <em>Lead Me<\/em>, that is now the book that you\u2019ve written. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Matt:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Matt and Sarah speak at <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> getaways with us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I\u2019ll add this: I remember where I was the first time I heard this song. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014heard <em>Lead Me<\/em>; really? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; I was driving on I-59 in Michigan. I was going to our church at Kensington; and I mean, I was <em>totally<\/em> captivated by the song. I went home; I told Dave, \u201cYou have to listen to this song,\u201d because this is kind of our story, which is so interesting; because we didn\u2019t even know you guys at the time. But I think that has resonated with <em>so<\/em> many people: \u201cThis is what we want. This is what we long for in our families.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So Sarah, take us back to that moment because, obviously, that song became an anthem.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sarah:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> But it\u2019s your story. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sarah:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It\u2019s more than lyrics. It is you were <em>feeling<\/em> left alone because the rock star is on the road, and you speak these words. Tell us a little bit of that story, because that\u2019s really where we are today. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sarah:<\/strong> Yes; I remember he was at the dining room table. We were having our\u2014I don\u2019t know\u2014ten thousandth conversation about the subject. I just was like, \u201cHey, like you come home; and you\u2019re grumpy. You act like you don\u2019t have anything to give, but you\u2019ve literally left me home alone to do it all myself. I feel really alone. I literally feel like we\u2019re living our [Sarah and kids] life, and you\u2019re living your life. That doesn\u2019t feel like a family.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Matt:<\/strong> You said, \u201cYou\u2019re here, but you\u2019re not here.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sarah:<\/strong> Yes; I don\u2019t necessarily feel like it was proximity; I feel like it was the heart. Does that make sense? Like, I do feel, even though I would say most Christian musicians\u2019 families\u2014I\u2019m going to stretch far here\u2014and I\u2019m going to say, \u201cMost of us families feel lonely, and we sacrifice that for the ministry.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think it was more the condition of our hearts in that. To me, it was: \u201cIf you came home, and you were excited to be here, and you weren\u2019t complaining, and you were helpful, and you were happy, then, maybe, this could work\u201d; you know? But it felt very much like it was the opposite every time he came home. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> As you guys described these long tours\u2014Matt\u2019s gone; you\u2019re there, fending for yourself. I was thinking about people in the military\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sarah:<\/strong> Totally. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014guys, who are deployed, who try re-entry\u2014they come in; now, they don\u2019t know what their place in the home is. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sarah:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is an occupational hazard that is true for\u2014not just for musicians or pro-athletes, as you mentioned, Dave\u2014but it\u2019s true for a number of professionals, who have got this: \u201cI\u2019m traveling a lot, and then I try to come back home and make life work.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI was curious\u2014because you alluded to this\u2014both of you entertained thoughts that, maybe, this marriage was not going to make it? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sarah:<\/strong> Yes; outside of conflict, we have a great time: we laugh; we have fun; we love each other. But when it comes to anything that strikes up conflict, it becomes <em>quickly<\/em> toxic. Someone once mentioned\u2014what is it?\u2014the 4-C\u2019s? I forget exactly what they are\u2014but they are like contempt\u2026\u2014and we possess all of them, with a 98 percent divorce rate or something like that. We have that on top of\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Matt:<\/strong> I remember Sarah reading that to me: \u201cSee, this guy here says that if you have the 4-C\u2019s, you\u2019re 98 percent likely to get a divorce.\u201d I thought, \u201cWell, that\u2019s encouraging\u201d; you know? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sarah:<\/strong> \u201cWe possess, you know, these attributes that lead to divorce: my husband travels; we have a sick child.\u201d Eighty-five percent will divorce when you have a sick child. I mean, we have <em>all<\/em> of these odds stacked against us. So yes, there have been moments where it\u2019s like\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Matt:<\/strong> \u2014those moments, really, too\u2014you know, it\u2019s like, when there have been those moments, where it\u2019s, \u201cI\u2019m done!\u201d [sounding serious] \u201cWell, what do you mean by that?\u201d; you know? It\u2019s those words that speak; then, you go back and say, \u201cWell, I was just saying, \u2018I\u2019m done with <em>this\u2019<\/em>\u201d; right? But it is those little kinds of threats that sneak in, and it\u2019s the \u201clook\u201d; right? It\u2019s that exchange, where you are like dancing that line of admitting out loud, \u201cDo I want to walk away?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sarah:<\/strong> Yes, sure\u2014have we threatened it to each other once in a while?\u2014yes, we have.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Matt:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> But for you guys\u2014here you are Matt, writing songs about Jesus and drawing closer to Him. You guys both love Jesus. What was going on with your relationship with God in the midst of all that? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Matt:<\/strong> Yes; I think for me\u2014it\u2019s interesting\u2014because I\u2019ve always had a prayerful relationship with the Lord on a daily basis; I\u2019ve always been in the Word on my own time. I\u2019ve always leaned into the Lord. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHow do you even describe that person that I could be?\u2014where I\u2019m leaning into the Lord, and I\u2019m almost leaning on that relationship, too, like, \u201cTake care of everything. I didn\u2019t want to deal with all of the little stuff.\u201d I just kind of wanted to lean on the big-picture fact: \u201cWe\u2019re a Christian couple; everything\u2019s fine,\u201d \u201cI love the Lord; you love the Lord. We\u2019re just going to stay married, because that\u2019s what people in our family do.\u201d We just kind of\/I just could lean there and try to ignore the rest. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I mean, it sounds like you\u2019re living in fairytale land denial.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Honey! Dave, this is you! [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I wasn\u2019t going to say\u2014[Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You guys are twins!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Matt:<\/strong> Yes! [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014I mean, I didn\u2019t want to say it out loud; so my wife does! [Laughter] But I thought there were moments where, when we were really struggling, and the church was starting, and things were happening in my ministry, that I would be\u2014you talk about contempt, and criticism, and defensiveness\u2014these are all from John Gottman\u2019s <em>Four Horsemen<\/em>\u2014they\u2019re all from that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019d be, literally, getting in our car. Ann would be walking out into the driveway with a child or two in her arms. I\u2019d be <em>yelling<\/em> at her. Fifteen minutes later, I\u2019m walking into an edlers\u2019 meeting, leading spiritually.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Matt:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And I\u2019m like, \u201cThe dichotomy of what I\u2019m doing.\u201d Matt, I felt the same thing: it was like, \u201cMy walk with God is solid; I\u2019m leaning on that foundation.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u201cAnn\u2019s just getting in the way.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> But I have to wonder, in the midst of that\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I\u2019m thinking of the end of a Sanctus Real concert\u2014you had a conversation with Sarah earlier in the day, where she\u2019s just mad at you; because you\u2019re not there\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Matt:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014it\u2019s the end of a Sanctus Real concert; and there are these cute girls who are coming up and going, \u201cYour music is so inspiring; it\u2019s changed my life.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And they\u2019re throwing their <em>Bibles<\/em> up on stage! [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u201cYou\u2019re amazing!\u201d [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Matt:<\/strong> You know, it\u2019s interesting. For whatever reason, it was like, I didn\u2019t really feel that temptation much; but the temptation I definitely <em>did <\/em>feel was on an emotional level\u2014whoever it was after a concert\u2014just [to hear]: \u201cOh, wow!\u201d It\u2019s the reward; I get rewarded for my work, because everybody says, \u201cWow! What a great job!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tPart of it, too, is that we have a job to do\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Matt:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cIf I let myself get down in the mud, and caught up in all of this stuff, can I continue to lead and do my job?:\u2014it\u2019s almost like a protection element. But at the end of the day\u2014and Sarah reminds me of this, and it\u2019s good that she does\u2014\u201cWho are you protecting?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Matt:<\/strong> \u201cAre you protecting what\u2019s important? Or are you just protecting yourself?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So at some point, Matt, it gets through. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Matt:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It\u2019s like, \u201cMy family and my home is actually more important than the tens of thousands\/hundreds of thousands.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Matt:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> What was it that hit you? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Matt:<\/strong> For me, it was that moment of realizing that my good intentions could no longer define me. It was a wakeup call the day that I wrote <em>Lead Me<\/em>, actually. I had that conversation at the dinner table that Sarah poured her heart out to me. She actually said those words to me, \u201cI need you to lead me.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHer face is puffy and red, and she\u2019s been crying. You know that feeling, when you can see somebody\u2019s heart just weighing on their face? I looked from her face at that table over to her face in our wedding photo; and I saw like this <em>joyful<\/em> woman, whose countenance was literally glowing with hope and excitement for our future. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen I turn back, and I see her again. I\u2019m like, \u201cThat is somehow my fault. And I might not understand, even right now, everything I\u2019ve done. I know I\u2019m oblivious to some of the reasons why. I know I\u2019m too selfish to see some of the reasons why, but am I going to be a man, am I going to step up, and am I going to figure it out? Am I going to find out what my role is, in this exchange that\u2019s happened over the last seven years, to get my wife to a place where she\u2019s that far away from that wedding photo? Am I going to take responsibility?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think, that day, I really chose to be a man and take responsibility for, at least, one step at a time. I knew I wouldn\u2019t get it perfect, but I knew that I had to make whatever hard decisions I had to make to put into <em>action<\/em> the intentions that I\u2019d had my whole life. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Wow! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> That was the visual I think so many of us men\u2014I can\u2019t speak for what a wife or a mom feels\u2014but I feel like I\u2019ve done the same thing to my wife. Hearing you say that, you want to say, \u201cGod, I need to correct this. I need to be a man and step up.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Matt:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So thank you for doing that. I think we\u2019ve got to hear the song. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Matt:<\/strong> Yes! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We do have a guitar! [Laughter] We just happen to have one here in the studio. Do you mind pulling it up? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Matt:<\/strong> Bob even let me borrow a pic. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Alright! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Matt:<\/strong> It\u2019s funny. I would go into an interview, before the book, <em>expecting<\/em> to play; because we\u2019re talking about music. I\u2019m so unprepared now; I show up for a book interview, and I\u2019m like, \u201cOh, yes, I didn\u2019t bring a guitar. It\u2019s about the song! What am I thinking?\u201d [Laughter] Alright, this is <em>Lead Me<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Matt sings <em>Lead Me<\/em>] [Applause]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Wow. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> A great song. I\u2019m wondering: is there one story you\u2019ve heard from somebody, who has heard that song, and God has used it in a remarkable, powerful way in that guy\u2019s life or in that couple\u2019s life? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Matt:<\/strong> Every time somebody asks me that, honestly, the same story comes to mind. I had a woman come up to me. She said, \u201cI\u2019ve been having an emotional affair with a man who isn\u2019t my husband for several months, and we had a text exchange. We said, \u2018Hey, we\u2019re going to meet up, and we\u2019re going to be physical for the first time.\u2019\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tShe said, on the way out of her house\u2014she said they had their living room, with a sliding door on the back of the house\u2014and as she was sliding open the door to leave, <em>Lead Me<\/em> came on the radio. She just stopped and listened. As the song played, she said, by the end of this song, she was on her knees, crying, weeping, asking God to forgive her. When her husband came home, she told him everything. She confessed; she repented and told him that she wanted to make things right and for them to grow in their marriage again together. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think, \u201cMan! What a crazy thing that God would bring a song on the radio in a moment like that just to speak to her heart.\u201d And then, all the stories I\u2019ve heard of men, who\u2019ve pulled over on the side of the road, hearing that song on the radio, just breaking down, realizing that they want to and need to be that for their wives. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s amazing\u2014music\u2014you take a real moment of your life, and you put into a bottle, and you send it out; and somebody takes it, and they open it, and they feel the exact same thing. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sarah:<\/strong> What I hear in that is the redemption of my pain. To me, like when I hear those stories\u2014my heart\u2019s cry in the midst of the toxic conflict, where I\u2019m like, \u201cUse this! This is pointless, and it\u2019s destructive,\u201d\u2014as a person, I\u2019m obsessed with redemption. So to me, that is like, \u201cOkay, that was the redemption that came from those fights\u201d; you know? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Matt:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> We have three of you guys around the table. Help us, as women\u2014who are feeling lonely, who have felt like we\u2019ve been trying to get you to hear us, and we feel like nags or we feel like we\u2019ve just shut down\u2014like we\u2019re longing for our men to lead; we\u2019re longing for our men to be with our kids or to lead spiritually, but we don\u2019t always know how to communicate it; I know I\u2019ve done it really poorly in the past\u2014what should we be doing, as women? How can we motivate, and love, and encourage our men? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I\u2019m just going to say what I heard Sarah say earlier, which is, \u201cThere\u2019s no magic way for you to say anything.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Matt:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> It\u2019s going to take the Spirit of God to penetrate a husband\u2019s heart. It\u2019s not whether you are soft or angry, or say it this way or say it that way, or put it in a card or put it in a letter. If the Spirit of God is not the One who penetrates, it\u2019s not going to make any difference. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo maybe, spending as much time praying as you are inclined to do\u2014telling your husband what is wrong\u2014maybe, taking that to the Lord and saying, \u201cLord, You know all of the things I\u2019m frustrated by; You know. You\u2019ve got to do this work in my husband\u2019s heart. I can\u2019t.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI wish I had a formula. I wish I could say, \u201cHere. Let me give you the 12 magic words; you say this, and you\u2019ll have a new husband tomorrow.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> It doesn\u2019t work like that in our lives or in our marriages; right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Matt:<\/strong> Yes; it takes courage to speak up and say what we feel\u2014for any of us to say, \u201cHey, I have a wound; I have a feeling,\u201d\u2014because you don\u2019t know how it\u2019s going to go. You really don\u2019t. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut it also takes an equal amount of courage to approach the throne of God in prayer and trust that He\u2019ll take care of it. I mean, I think we do want to know that our wives are praying for us; you know?\u2014for sure. I think that\u2019s a good word, Bob. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; I think\u2014you know, I thought of two visuals\u2014I thought, \u201cKnees; mouth.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Matt:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I thought, \u201cThe most important thing you can do, as a wife\/as a husband, if you really long for change in your spouse, is ask God.\u201d Because, like Bob said\/like Matt said, \u201cIt\u2019s not going to happen by me pushing Ann or Ann pushing me. God has to do a supernatural work.\u201d But I also think, and Paul wrote in Ephesians 4, \u201cSpeak the truth in love.\u201d You can\u2019t be quiet; you\u2019ve got to speak it in love. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> But here is the other side of it: at some point, the spouse receiving that truth has to repent; you know? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sarah:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You did; I did; Bob has. It\u2019s a <em>daily<\/em> thing, and God will meet you <em>right<\/em> there. You may never write a song or a book, but you will have a story that your kids\u2014grandkids and kids\u2014will tell forever, so repent today. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I want to remind us, too, that the living God of the universe lives within us through His Spirit, who raised Jesus from the dead. And that is <em>power<\/em>. Our prayers have power! God hears us, so don\u2019t give up getting on your knees. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Thank you, guys. Thanks for being here with us. Thanks for sharing your story, and for the song, and for the book. We\u2019ve got copies of Matt\u2019s book, <em>Lead Me<\/em>, available in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. You can order the book from us, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to get a copy or several copies to pass out to friends. Again, the title of the book is <em>Lead Me<\/em>. Order online at FamilyLifeToday.com, or call to order: 1-800-FL-TODAY is the number; 1-800-358-6329; that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we hope you have a great weekend. I hope you and your family are able to worship, one way or another, with your local church this weekend. And I hope you can join us back on Monday when we\u2019re going to talk about intentional, creative ways we can purposefully communicate our love to one another as husband and wife. Matt and Lisa Jacobson will be here with suggestions, ideas, and strategies for how we can let each other know that we care for one another. I hope you can tune in for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch; we got some extra help this week from Bruce Goff; and, of course, our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. Have a great weekend! We\u2019ll see you Monday for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<sup>\u00a9<\/sup>Song: <em>Lead Me<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tArtist:\u00a0\u00a0 Sanctus Real (Performed in FamilyLife Studio by Matt Hammitt)\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAlbum: <em>Pieces of a Real Heart<\/em>, 2010 Sparrow Records\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2021 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/306827","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=306827"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=306827"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=306827"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=306827"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=306827"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=306827"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=306827"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}