{"id":306801,"date":"2021-03-30T07:00:05","date_gmt":"2021-03-30T11:00:05","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/the-seven-ring-circus\/"},"modified":"2021-03-30T07:00:05","modified_gmt":"2021-03-30T11:00:05","slug":"the-seven-ring-circus","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/the-seven-ring-circus\/","title":{"rendered":"The Seven-Ring Circus"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Jackie and Stephana Bledsoe talk about the purpose in seven different rings, what they looked like in their marriage, and how common they are to every marriage.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2021-03-30.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:28:56","filesize":"26.49M","filesize_raw":"27777447","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2809,2082,2902],"tags":[2877],"podcast_series":[8435],"cwp_profile":[9702],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-306801","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-commitment","category-communication","category-resolving-conflict","tag-marriage","podcast_series-the-7-rings-of-marriage","cwp_profile-jackie-and-stephana-bledsoe","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/306801\/the-seven-ring-circus","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/306801\/the-seven-ring-circus","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"zZVLk30n70\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/the-seven-ring-circus\/\">The Seven-Ring Circus<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/the-seven-ring-circus\/embed\/#?secret=zZVLk30n70\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;The Seven-Ring Circus&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"zZVLk30n70\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2021-03-30.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2021-03-30.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I don\u2019t know if you\u2019ve thought about this, but you\u2019re going to be married to somebody different, ten years from now, than the person you\u2019re married to today. I mean, they may have the same name, ten years from now, the same driver\u2019s license; but as Jackie Bledsoe points out, they\u2019re going to be a different person.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> Stephana\u2019s not the same person that I married in 2001; I\u2019m definitely not the same person. We try to figure out: \u201cHow do we continue to learn that? What are the habits that we can do to continue to figure it out, so we don\u2019t drift apart and say, \u2018You know, we kind of grew apart; I don\u2019t really know him,\u2019\/\u2018I don\u2019t really know her\u2019?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Tuesday March 30<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I'm Bob Lepine. You can find us online at FamilyLifeToday.com. If you\u2019re going to be different ten years from now, and your spouse is going to be different ten years from now, how can you make sure you\u2019re growing <em>together <\/em>in that process?\u2014that you are still one? We\u2019re going to explore that today with Jackie and Stephana Bledsoe. Stay with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. I think all of us can kind of look at our marriages in stages or phases; don\u2019t you think?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Absolutely!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Everybody kind of travels; we don\u2019t travel the same journey.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> But we usually start out in an infatuation stage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right; and there is kind of a \u201creality\u201d phase; we talk about this at the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> marriage getaway.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> There\u2019s that euphoria; and then there\u2019s the: \u201cWe\u2019re getting married.\u201d Then there\u2019s: \u201cOh, it\u2019s different than I thought it was going to be.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u201cOh!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And then there\u2019s: \u201cOh, you\u2019re disappointing me.\u201d I mean, we all kind of move in and out of those phases and have to figure out, when we\u2019re in the middle of that, \u201cWhat do we do?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You know what I do at the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em>? You\u2019ve probably\u2014we\u2019ve done, what?\u2014a couple of these together?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We\u2019ve done these together, yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I always sing songs during that part. [Laughter] Because, at the weekend, we talk about a romance phase\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014which moves to the reality phase, which moves to the renovation phase; you know.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And when I was teaching that, it reminded me of a Stevie Wonder song, which we all know\u2014it became a commercial\u2014[singing]: \u201cI just called to say, \u2018I love you.\u2019\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That\u2019s the romance phase.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> That\u2019s romance; you know?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> But then, after a while\u2014it could be six months\/it could be six minutes\u2014but you get to reality. It\u2019s like, \u201cI just called to say, \u2018I\u2019m wondering about you\u2019\u201d; [Laughter] right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd then the third one\u2014the renovation phase\u2014is, at some point, you\u2019re like, \u201cI just called to say, \u2018I\u2019m going to change you!\u2019!\u201d; right? [Laughter] I guess we\u2019re laughing because it\u2019s cute, but it\u2019s true.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> It\u2019s true, yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> It is true, yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Almost every couple encounters those phases at some point.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And yet, every couple thinks, \u201cThat\u2019s not going to happen to us.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right, right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> But it does! And it\u2019s normal.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We\u2019ve got some friends, who are joining us this week on <em>FamilyLife Today, <\/em>Jackie and Stephana Bledsoe. Guys, welcome back.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> Thank you so much.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> Thank you!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Jackie and Stephana speak at our <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaways, along with us. They live in Indiana; parents of three children. They\u2019ve written a book on <em>The 7 Rings of Marriage. <\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>\u00a0<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou\u2019re really talking, in this book, about phases or stages that we go through. You see there\u2019s kind of a predictable pattern that moves from romance to reality to renovation\u2014some of these things\u2014right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> Yes; and you know, when we first shared this, it was really just our marriage story. And there were so many couples, like, \u201cOh! That\u2019s what ring we\u2019re in right now. We\u2019re right there!\u201d So then, after the fact, we realized, \u201cYes, this is common for many couples to go through.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat we learned from our own story is that, early on in marriage, we thought, if there was a tough season, that was the completeness of our marriage: \u201cThis is where we\u2019re always going to be.\u201d We didn\u2019t know what was coming next; you don\u2019t know what to expect. You don\u2019t know that the couples that start great and think, \u201cOh, we\u2019ll never be in that stage,\u201d and that couples who are in a mess are like, \u201cWe\u2019ll never be at that stage\/the good stage.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen we realized there was something else, then we said, \u201cOkay; now what do we do to continue growing; so we can go through all these rings and be more mature, more connected, and just have our marriage really live to bring glory and honor to God?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We talked earlier about the seven rings and about the fact that it starts with an Engagement RING. You use that as a metaphor, and then a Wedding RING. What are the five that come after that? As we work our way through this, can you take us from engagement all the way through? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> Next, after the Engagement RING, is the Wedding RING; and then you go to the DiscoveRING. That is typically when you come together in marriage\/you\u2019re new in marriage, and you\u2019re starting to see things that you didn\u2019t see when you were engaged.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, it\u2019s the, \u201cI\u2019m wondering\u2026\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> You\u2019re kind of like, \u201cWhat in the world?!\u201d If we\u2019re honest, we might be, like Stephana said, \u201cDid I make the right decision, saying, \u2018Yes,\u2019 to this?\u201d So that\u2014the DiscoveRING\u2014is an amazing and enlightening stage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And you\u2019re saying that\u2019s a normal phase?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> It is!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> Yes; I think most of us show up in marriage with our best representative in the dating phase. And then, as you get comfortable, and you begin to recognize who you have for life, [Laughter] you begin to question: \u201cHad I known this, what would I have said?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Here\u2019s what I think happens: we come into marriage with an incomplete picture of the other person. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We know certain things; and the things we know, we <em>really <\/em>like. The things we don\u2019t know yet\u2014I mean, you can\u2019t know somebody fully in the engagement or even in the early years of marriage\u2014these things that we don\u2019t know yet about the other person, we fill in the blanks with what we <em>assume <\/em>is the best:\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s so true.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cOh, I\u2019m sure you\u2019re going to act this way,\u201d \u201cI\u2019m sure you\u2019re going to think this way,\u201d \u201cI\u2019m sure this is going to be how you\u2026\u201d And then, you get into marriage and go, \u201cOh! It\u2019s <em>not<\/em> the way I expected you to be.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That\u2019s the DiscoveRING phase, where we go, \u201cYou\u2019re different than I thought you were going to be. I expected that, if this ever happened, you would do this rather than that.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> Exactly! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>And I know that, when we were engaged, I really thought, \u201cWe\u2019ve been so purposeful; we have shared <em>everything <\/em>with each other! I know you inside and out.\u201d But do any of us really know each other, inside and out, until we\u2019ve <em>lived<\/em> with one another for a while?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Because, of course, you\u2019re going to see things. Dave and I have used, as an illustration, that we stand with one another as we\u2019re speaking. We just have all of these suitcases lined up. We think that we\u2019ve unloaded all of the suitcases, but there are so many that are <em>hidden<\/em>. You can\u2019t get to those that are hidden. It\u2019s not that you\u2019re purposely hiding them.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You\u2019re just not aware of it until that other person makes you bring it out. [Laugher]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> That\u2019s so true!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And they can see\/the worst side of you can come out.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> So true!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> Yes; and I would say, too, even things that were really good at the beginning: a friend says it like this: \u201cWhat was once appealing can become appalling.\u201d Some of those things that you really were attracted to, all of a sudden, it\u2019s like, \u201cUh, that is kind of annoying right now.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> I know, Stephana, you talk a lot about the way I organize things and all that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> It looked great as an attractive bachelor. But then, when I was in marriage, it was like, \u201cEverything doesn\u2019t always have to be clean all the time!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> So he\u2019s a cleanie; is that what you\u2019re saying?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> He\u2019s a\u2014I remember saying to him, \u201cI never have met a person who has more pet peeves,\u201d\u2014[Laughter]\u2014everything is a pet peeve. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> But earlier, you thought what?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> I loved it! His car always smelled good. It was organized; there was a place for everything in the car. It was great!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I was like that with Dave. I was like, \u201cYou are so laid back. It\u2019s amazing! I am intense; I\u2019m high strung, and you just make me chill more.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And then, we got married\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And then it became\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cYou are <em>so <\/em>passive! [Laughter] You need to get up and go!\u201d Yes, it\u2019s <em>weird<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, here\u2019s the principle there: Every strength\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014that gets overused becomes a weakness.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> So good.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And in the same way, I think it\u2019s good for husbands and wives to recognize: that thing that you see in your spouse that you would go, \u201cThat\u2019s a weakness,\u201d there is a hidden strength there that\u2019s being overused. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMary Ann has high standards about things; that\u2019s a strength. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> When she overuses it, she develops a critical spirit; that\u2019s a weakness. Dave is relaxed and easy-going; that\u2019s a strength. When he overuses it, it\u2019s passivity. Every strength has a corresponding weakness when it\u2019s overused. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat happens in marriage is\u2014those strengths that we were attracted to\u2014we start to see them up close, more regularly, or they get overused, and we go, \u201cNo, I wanted not that much salt in the stew. I wanted a <em>little<\/em> less of that.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Well, here\u2019s\u2014I would take it to the next step, Bob\u2014I would think, \u201cIt\u2019s <em>my<\/em> job to help you be better at that! Because it\u2019s super-annoying, so I\u2019m going to help you not be super-annoying.\u201d [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And that\u2019s the question\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014you bring it up in your book: \u201cShould we try to change our spouse?\u201d Because, when we start to see those, that\u2019s our first thought\u2014you know\u2014\u201cI just called to say, \u2018I\u2019m going to change you.\u2019\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Is that a good move?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> I definitely think it\u2019s not! We\u2019re not going to change that adult person that we married. I think it\u2019s more an opportunity for us to grow and to recognize that the Lord made him just the way He made him. If I can see those things in him as strengths, then I will be better off.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Stephana, how did you do that? Because you talked about that really bothering you, so what changed?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> It was really prayer\u2014it was time with the Lord, honestly\u2014just asking Him to see myself first. You know, that I not always see flaws in him; because I\u2019m not perfect, and I know that. So asking the Lord to help me to have grace in my relationship with him.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> Yes; and that\u2019s one of the beauties of the DiscoveRING as well: we kind of, accidentally, find out some of these things; but we also find out things about ourselves. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGoing back to the foundation, and relying on Christ in prayer, He will start to reveal <em>you<\/em> when you\u2019re starting to want your spouse to be changed to line up with your idea of what they\u2019re supposed to do or not do. This is one thing that we get couples to do. We want you to be intentional about that DiscoveRING. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you\u2019re just going in\u2014and early on, it\u2019s accidental; but then, okay\u2014because we\u2019re just growing. We\u2019re going to change over five, ten, fifteen years of marriage, individually; but how do you become intentional about continuing to grow closer and learn who your spouse is? Stephana\u2019s not the same person that I married in 2001; I\u2019m definitely not the same person. We try to figure out: \u201cHow do we continue to learn that? What are the habits that we can do to continue to figure it out; so we don\u2019t drift apart and say, \u2018You know, we kind of grew apart. I don\u2019t really know him,\u2019\/\u2018I don\u2019t really know her\u2019?\u201d That becomes something that we didn\u2019t intentionally do.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Stephana, talk to the wife, who has been diligently praying for her spouse. Her husband has no desire to really work on their marriage; he thinks he\u2019s fine. She just keeps going\/she keeps pursuing Jesus. How would you encourage her?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> Well, I think the first thing I would do is acknowledge it\u2019s tough. It\u2019s not an easy thing to do; but if we will surrender all of what we\u2019re dealing with to the Lord, He will give you the grace to walk through that. I just remember a season, where He gave me a Scripture; and I literally wrote it on a notecard so that I could put it on my dashboard\/so that I could put it over the sink. Wherever I frequently was spending my time, I would see that reminder to me. It was Galatians 6:9; it said: \u201cDo not grow weary in well doing, for at the proper time, you\u2019ll reap a harvest if you do not give up.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn that season, that was just a great reminder that He sees me. Regardless of what is happening between Jackie and me, the Lord has not forgotten me; and I need to continue to spend my time knowing that and reminding myself with that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> Yes, she literally had it engraved on her iPad<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>. So when she says she had it everywhere\/everywhere she could put it, she had it. I saw it; everybody saw it. I know, for a fact, in that season and all seasons, it kind of pushed her through as she continued to deal with whatever we\u2019ve gone through in marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And it is interesting\u2014I just had this thought\u2014we often say that we can\u2019t change our spouse; God does that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I still 100 percent agree with that! But at the same time, as you\u2019re discovering things about yourself and about your spouse, God wants to use us as a vehicle or an instrument to help our spouse become like Christ.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Like when I was sitting on the couch, watching something; Ann\u2019s in the kitchen. I was watching something that her brother and I have a common relationship with a person that was playing in this game\/this sports game. Ann says to me, \u201cHey, you should call my brother, Jim, and talk to him about this at half-time; because Jim would love to hear what you\u2019re talking about.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, I\u2019ve got to be honest! If she had said that to me 20 years ago, I would be like, \u201cWhat are you telling me to do? Why are you telling me to call somebody?!\u201d But she has believed in me for so many years, and spoken life to me\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014and trusted me, and loved me, that when she said it, it wasn\u2019t a condemnation. It was an idea\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>\u2014like, \u201cThis will be fun.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>that made me want to go, \u201cShe\u2019s right!\u201d In some ways, I look and I go, \u201cI\u2019m changed!\u201d God did this, but she did it; because she spoke enough life and belief into me that I didn\u2019t see it as a harsh word anymore, like, \u201cI hate how you don\u2019t think this way.\u201d It was like an encouragement.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI pick up the phone, and he\u2019s like, \u201cWhaaat?! I can\u2019t believe you called me! I\u2019m loving talking to you about this!\u201d I would have never done it without that little bit of prodding. I thought, \u201cYou know, God does use our spouse to change us if we do it in a way that is received by our spouse.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> Right; yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> If you\u2019re talking to a couple, in the DiscoveRING phase of marriage, and they\u2019re discovering things, where they go: \u201cThis is not what I hoped for,\u201d \u201cThis is not what I expected\u201d; what\u2019s their best strategy in that phase of marriage? How do you get through that? Do you just keep your mouth shut, and pray, and put the Scriptures all over your house?\u2014or do you confront things? What do you do?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> I think it starts with a conversation with your spouse, recognizing that, first of all, you\u2019re on the same team. You\u2019re not trying to hurt them.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Do you say that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> I think you do; I think you do. You have to have that safe place to have conversations that may be more difficult. We call it: \u201cSpeaking the truth in love.\u201d You might even quote that\/say, \u201cI need to have a moment to speak the truth in love to you,\u201d so that that can be prefaced and received. But I do think you have to have those conversations and be able to say, \u201cYou\u2019re not perfect; I still love you.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> Yes; right. There\u2019s an illustration a pastor counseled us with that kind of helps you get a perspective on what\u2019s happening. I think that\u2019s one thing that we\u2019ll tell couples is: \u201cOkay, here\u2019s the perspective.\u201d It uses a hammer and a chisel as the illustration. He\u2019s making a sculpture; there\u2019s a guy who\u2019s creating something. God is wielding the hammer. Sometimes, you are the chisel; and sometimes, you are the hammer.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf I\u2019m the hammer, God is going to use me to hit Stephana, as the chisel, to make this thing He\u2019s trying to create in us together\/this marriage. And then, sometimes, it flip-flops; she\u2019s the hammer. God\u2019s still wielding it. He uses both of us to create something greater in marriage that we would have no idea [of], but it hurts sometimes; it\u2019s painful!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you\u2019re the hammer, even though you\u2019re hitting, you\u2019re still getting some pain\/you\u2019re getting some contact. When you\u2019re the chisel, definitely, you\u2019re getting hit by something hard every single time. It\u2019s like, \u201cThis is uncomfortable, Lord!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That sounds <em>terrible<\/em>!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> It does! [Laughter] It does. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And it is hard sometimes; isn\u2019t it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> It is hard.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> But the outcome\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes, is beautiful.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014which is what you\u2019re aiming for. You\u2019ve got to recognize, \u201cWe\u2019re aiming for something that is bigger and more beautiful; so yes, we\u2019re going to go through some painful periods.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> But doesn\u2019t the Bible tell us that suffering produces character?\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014that when we press through these\u2014I\u2019ve never forgotten somebody we had on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>,years ago, who said, in the state of Oklahoma, they had done some surveys. They went to people, who had filed for divorce, but had not gone through with it. In every state, there are people who file\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014and for whatever reason, don\u2019t go through with it. They went to these people, at least five years after they had filed, and they said to them, \u201cToday, how would you rate your marriage, on a scale of 1-5, with 5 being the best ever and 1 being terrible?\u201d And 83 percent of the people, who had filed for divorce five years or more earlier, said, \u201cOur marriage is a 4 or a 5.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> Wow!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> The couples, who had persevered through the hard times\u2014this is, really, you go from the DiscoveRING phase to the PerseveRING phase. It\u2019s the couples who persevere in the hard times\u2014who get through them\/get out on the other side\u2014and say, \u201cWe\u2019re in a better place\u2014we\u2019ve grown; we\u2019ve learned\u2014the hammer and the chisel did its work. We\u2019ve got something more beautiful and more glorious here.\u201d Oftentimes, it\u2019s just couples saying, \u201cOkay, let\u2019s get through this together,\u201d and there can be glory on the other side of this.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think all of us would agree: \u201cOur marriage looks <em>nothing<\/em> like it did at the beginning.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> Yes,\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Aren\u2019t you guys\u2014wouldn\u2019t you say the same?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> Absolutely.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And it has been through those <em>hard <\/em>moments of the chisel and the hammer that has formed something beautiful.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And aren\u2019t we glad?\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014that our marriage doesn\u2019t look like it did in the early years; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; we may not be glad in the moment\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014but man! I\u2019m so thankful that God can use those tough times to shape us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes, yes; I\u2019ve shared this before; but there was a season in our marriage, early on\u2014we\u2019d been married for five years\u2014for a variety of circumstances, we were living in a new city in a house that\u2014I\u2019d bought this house that Mary Ann had never seen before\u2014it was just\/it was not a <em>good <\/em>season. She was pregnant with our second child; she\u2019s depressed. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m coming home at night and wishing I didn\u2019t have to come home at night. I\u2019d been at work all day; I come home: she\u2019s miserable; she\u2019s unhappy. I remember there was a night I was out in the backyard, talking to God\u2014and just kicking the dirt\u2014and going, \u201cI am not going to get a divorce, because I can\u2019t\u2014and I won\u2019t, and I shouldn\u2019t\u2014but I understand why people want to.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> To be in that place, where you go, \u201cI don\u2019t want to be here. This moment is not pleasant.\u201d Now, I can look back on that, having been married, coming up on 42 years, and go, \u201cWas that hard?\u201d\u2014yes. \u201cDid God work through that?\u201d\u2014absolutely! \u201cAm I glad we\u2019re together today?\u201d\u2014for a <em>million<\/em> reasons, I am! \u201cDid I feel that way in the backyard?\u201d\u2014no! I just thought, \u201cI want this moment to stop, because this is unpleasant.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd that\u2019s\u2014again, we\u2019re back to the enduring in hardships\u2014which once you discover: \u201cOh, it\u2019s not going to be the way I thought it was going to be,\u201d\u2014then there are going to be some things you\u2019ve got to endure, but perseverance pays off.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You know, as we\u2019re talking, I\u2019m thinking, \u201cOh! I would love every engaged couple to hear this conversation!\u201d Wouldn\u2019t you?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> Yes, yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Because this is the reality. It\u2019s not going to be easy\u2014it\u2019s not, maybe, what you think it will be: \u201cOh, this is wonderful; and I\u2019m always going to love you,\u201d\u2014but it\u2019s more beautiful.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And it\u2019s the reality of marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> Yes; I think that is what our hope is\u2014that couples will see that there are more rings\u2014that they can be filled with hope\/that they can go through the hard rings and get to other rings. I think that\u2019s the point: we didn\u2019t realize that there\u2019s more to this. We just thought, \u201cThis is where we\u2019re going to be.\u201d And also, that we were the weird couple going through this, like, \u201cWe\u2019re the only ones.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> Yes; \u201cWe\u2019re the only crazy couple who experiences this type of stuff.\u201d [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Whenever we\u2019re doing premarital counseling, I will say to couples, \u201cNow, it\u2019s going to be hard.\u201d And Mary Ann will say, \u201cIt\u2019s going to be <em>great<\/em>!\u201d [Laughter] And I will say, \u201cYes; it\u2019s going to be great, and it\u2019s going to be hard.\u201d And she\u2019ll say, \u201cBut it\u2019s going to be <em>great<\/em>!\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And both are true.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> It\u2019s true.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> Yes, yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We want couples to understand: \u201cThere\u2019s <em>real<\/em> greatness and joy; you will <em>love <\/em>being married. And there\u2019s going to be some hard stuff\/maybe some of the hardest stuff you\u2019ve ever faced as a human being.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; I know that there\u2019s a Christmas movie I want to watch every year. Ann, what is it?\u2014she never wants to watch it\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> No, I do like it; it\u2019s called <em>The Family Man. <\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014<em>The Family Man<\/em> with Nicholas Cage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> Oh, yes!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> Okay.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And I\u2019m not recommending it\u2014there are some things in there I would not recommend\u2014but it hits my heart. Again, the whole gist of the thing is: you have Nicholas Cage, this single man, who\u2019s living the life in New York. He\u2019s got the cars, and the penthouse suite, and women, and money, and a big corporation. It\u2019s a glimpse\/the whole movie is like: \u201cThis is what might have happened if you had married your college sweetheart.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> But they didn\u2019t, so they give him this glimpse that he\u2019s married with two kids and a little house in New Jersey. By the end of the movie, he\u2019s like, \u201cThis is what I missed!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Every time I watch it, I tear up; because I think of my mom and dad. You know, it\u2019s like they walked away from that; and I was the son. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I think it hits me probably stronger than most, because it\u2019s like I think couples lose the vision of what it can be if they hold on\/\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> Right\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014persevere, and they fight for their marriage; there\u2019s something that is beautiful. Again, it\u2019s <em>hard<\/em>!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It\u2019s really hard, and it <em>never<\/em> gets not hard. It\u2019s always going to be difficult, but to keep that vision that there\u2019s something worth fighting for: \u201cI\u2019m not going to walk away. I\u2019m going to hang in here.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cI\u2019m going to keep the wedding ring on.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cAnd I\u2019m going to fight for it, because there\u2019s something beautiful that I can\u2019t even see yet; but if I hold on\u2026\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd Ann and I are there; I think we all are. It\u2019s like we\u2019re living <em>The Family Man<\/em> vision.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> We\u2019ve got a glimpse: \u201cIt\u2019s real, and it\u2019s worth fighting for.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And I think, Dave, the key, too, is holding onto Jesus. I mean, we\u2019re holding onto Him as we\u2019re holding onto one another. I think that\u2019s the key.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You\u2019re making me think of Andrew Peterson, who wrote a song called <em>Family Man<\/em>. He says: \u201cI\u2019m a family man; traded in my Mustang for a mini-van. This is not what I was headed for when I began. This was not my plan, but it\u2019s so much better than.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> That\u2019s good; that\u2019s true.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That\u2019s the vision you guys cast in the book, <em>The 7 Rings of Marriage. <\/em>We\u2019re making that book available to our listeners this week. Any <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>listener, who can pitch in to help with the ongoing costs of producing and syndicating this daily program\u2014keeping our website up and operating, all of the resources we produce, the events that we host\u2014you make all of that possible when you say, \u201cI like what FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> is doing, and I want to see it continue. I think this is important for me, for my family, for our community.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you can say, \u201cAmen,\u201d to that, then go on our website today and make a donation; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to donate to the ministry. Ask for a copy of Jackie and Stephana Bledsoe\u2019s book, <em>The 7 Rings of Marriage: Your Model for a Lasting and Fulfilling Marriage.<\/em> It\u2019s our thank-you gift when you donate today. Again, you can donate,online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or call to donate at 1-800-358-6329; that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBy the way, thanks to those of you who get in touch with us and who donate. We really do appreciate hearing from you. It\u2019s always nice to hear about how God is using <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> in your life, in your marriage, in your family. Thank you for sharing that with us when you get in touch with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, I want to remind you about an event that we have coming up about three-and-a-half weeks from now. On April 24<sup>th<\/sup>\u2014on a Saturday\u2014it\u2019s the 2021 <em>Blended &amp; Blessed<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup>event, hosted by Ron Deal. It\u2019s for couples: who are in blended marriages\/blended families, or maybe you know somebody who is, maybe you have a ministry at your church to blended couples, you have a heart for helping blended couples. This event is a one-day online event to talk about how we can help strengthen the marriages and families of blended couples in our world. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere\u2019s more information about this one-day livestream event. It\u2019s taking place, again, on Saturday, April 24<sup>th<\/sup>. You can go to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com, to find out more. If you\u2019re in a blended family, or know someone who is, pass this information along to them; plan to join us on the 24<sup>th<\/sup> for the one-day <em>Blended &amp; Blessed <\/em>event.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd be sure to be with us, again, tomorrow when we\u2019re going to talk about the outer rings of marriage\u2014about the phase we should all be aspiring to\u2014the stage of marriage, where we are ProspeRING and where we are MentoRING others. We\u2019re going to hear more, tomorrow, from Jackie and Stephana Bledsoe. I hope you can be with us as well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThanks today to our engineer, Keith Lynch. We got some extra help from Bruce Goff, again, today and our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We we\u2019ll see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2021 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:28:56"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["26.49M"],"filesize_raw":["27777447"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-306801.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-306801.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom 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and Stephana Bledsoe talk about the purpose in seven different rings, what they looked like in their marriage, and how common they are to every marriage.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2021-03-30.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I don\u2019t know if you\u2019ve thought about this, but you\u2019re going to be married to somebody different, ten years from now, than the person you\u2019re married to today. I mean, they may have the same name, ten years from now, the same driver\u2019s license; but as Jackie Bledsoe points out, they\u2019re going to be a different person.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> Stephana\u2019s not the same person that I married in 2001; I\u2019m definitely not the same person. We try to figure out: \u201cHow do we continue to learn that? What are the habits that we can do to continue to figure it out, so we don\u2019t drift apart and say, \u2018You know, we kind of grew apart; I don\u2019t really know him,\u2019\/\u2018I don\u2019t really know her\u2019?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Tuesday March 30<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I'm Bob Lepine. You can find us online at FamilyLifeToday.com. If you\u2019re going to be different ten years from now, and your spouse is going to be different ten years from now, how can you make sure you\u2019re growing <em>together <\/em>in that process?\u2014that you are still one? We\u2019re going to explore that today with Jackie and Stephana Bledsoe. Stay with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. I think all of us can kind of look at our marriages in stages or phases; don\u2019t you think?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Absolutely!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Everybody kind of travels; we don\u2019t travel the same journey.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> But we usually start out in an infatuation stage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right; and there is kind of a \u201creality\u201d phase; we talk about this at the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> marriage getaway.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> There\u2019s that euphoria; and then there\u2019s the: \u201cWe\u2019re getting married.\u201d Then there\u2019s: \u201cOh, it\u2019s different than I thought it was going to be.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u201cOh!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And then there\u2019s: \u201cOh, you\u2019re disappointing me.\u201d I mean, we all kind of move in and out of those phases and have to figure out, when we\u2019re in the middle of that, \u201cWhat do we do?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You know what I do at the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em>? You\u2019ve probably\u2014we\u2019ve done, what?\u2014a couple of these together?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We\u2019ve done these together, yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I always sing songs during that part. [Laughter] Because, at the weekend, we talk about a romance phase\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014which moves to the reality phase, which moves to the renovation phase; you know.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And when I was teaching that, it reminded me of a Stevie Wonder song, which we all know\u2014it became a commercial\u2014[singing]: \u201cI just called to say, \u2018I love you.\u2019\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That\u2019s the romance phase.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> That\u2019s romance; you know?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> But then, after a while\u2014it could be six months\/it could be six minutes\u2014but you get to reality. It\u2019s like, \u201cI just called to say, \u2018I\u2019m wondering about you\u2019\u201d; [Laughter] right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd then the third one\u2014the renovation phase\u2014is, at some point, you\u2019re like, \u201cI just called to say, \u2018I\u2019m going to change you!\u2019!\u201d; right? [Laughter] I guess we\u2019re laughing because it\u2019s cute, but it\u2019s true.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> It\u2019s true, yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> It is true, yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Almost every couple encounters those phases at some point.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And yet, every couple thinks, \u201cThat\u2019s not going to happen to us.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right, right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> But it does! And it\u2019s normal.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We\u2019ve got some friends, who are joining us this week on <em>FamilyLife Today, <\/em>Jackie and Stephana Bledsoe. Guys, welcome back.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> Thank you so much.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> Thank you!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Jackie and Stephana speak at our <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaways, along with us. They live in Indiana; parents of three children. They\u2019ve written a book on <em>The 7 Rings of Marriage. <\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>\u00a0<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou\u2019re really talking, in this book, about phases or stages that we go through. You see there\u2019s kind of a predictable pattern that moves from romance to reality to renovation\u2014some of these things\u2014right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> Yes; and you know, when we first shared this, it was really just our marriage story. And there were so many couples, like, \u201cOh! That\u2019s what ring we\u2019re in right now. We\u2019re right there!\u201d So then, after the fact, we realized, \u201cYes, this is common for many couples to go through.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat we learned from our own story is that, early on in marriage, we thought, if there was a tough season, that was the completeness of our marriage: \u201cThis is where we\u2019re always going to be.\u201d We didn\u2019t know what was coming next; you don\u2019t know what to expect. You don\u2019t know that the couples that start great and think, \u201cOh, we\u2019ll never be in that stage,\u201d and that couples who are in a mess are like, \u201cWe\u2019ll never be at that stage\/the good stage.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen we realized there was something else, then we said, \u201cOkay; now what do we do to continue growing; so we can go through all these rings and be more mature, more connected, and just have our marriage really live to bring glory and honor to God?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We talked earlier about the seven rings and about the fact that it starts with an Engagement RING. You use that as a metaphor, and then a Wedding RING. What are the five that come after that? As we work our way through this, can you take us from engagement all the way through? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> Next, after the Engagement RING, is the Wedding RING; and then you go to the DiscoveRING. That is typically when you come together in marriage\/you\u2019re new in marriage, and you\u2019re starting to see things that you didn\u2019t see when you were engaged.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, it\u2019s the, \u201cI\u2019m wondering\u2026\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> You\u2019re kind of like, \u201cWhat in the world?!\u201d If we\u2019re honest, we might be, like Stephana said, \u201cDid I make the right decision, saying, \u2018Yes,\u2019 to this?\u201d So that\u2014the DiscoveRING\u2014is an amazing and enlightening stage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And you\u2019re saying that\u2019s a normal phase?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> It is!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> Yes; I think most of us show up in marriage with our best representative in the dating phase. And then, as you get comfortable, and you begin to recognize who you have for life, [Laughter] you begin to question: \u201cHad I known this, what would I have said?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Here\u2019s what I think happens: we come into marriage with an incomplete picture of the other person. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We know certain things; and the things we know, we <em>really <\/em>like. The things we don\u2019t know yet\u2014I mean, you can\u2019t know somebody fully in the engagement or even in the early years of marriage\u2014these things that we don\u2019t know yet about the other person, we fill in the blanks with what we <em>assume <\/em>is the best:\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s so true.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cOh, I\u2019m sure you\u2019re going to act this way,\u201d \u201cI\u2019m sure you\u2019re going to think this way,\u201d \u201cI\u2019m sure this is going to be how you\u2026\u201d And then, you get into marriage and go, \u201cOh! It\u2019s <em>not<\/em> the way I expected you to be.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That\u2019s the DiscoveRING phase, where we go, \u201cYou\u2019re different than I thought you were going to be. I expected that, if this ever happened, you would do this rather than that.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> Exactly! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>And I know that, when we were engaged, I really thought, \u201cWe\u2019ve been so purposeful; we have shared <em>everything <\/em>with each other! I know you inside and out.\u201d But do any of us really know each other, inside and out, until we\u2019ve <em>lived<\/em> with one another for a while?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Because, of course, you\u2019re going to see things. Dave and I have used, as an illustration, that we stand with one another as we\u2019re speaking. We just have all of these suitcases lined up. We think that we\u2019ve unloaded all of the suitcases, but there are so many that are <em>hidden<\/em>. You can\u2019t get to those that are hidden. It\u2019s not that you\u2019re purposely hiding them.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You\u2019re just not aware of it until that other person makes you bring it out. [Laugher]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> That\u2019s so true!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And they can see\/the worst side of you can come out.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> So true!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> Yes; and I would say, too, even things that were really good at the beginning: a friend says it like this: \u201cWhat was once appealing can become appalling.\u201d Some of those things that you really were attracted to, all of a sudden, it\u2019s like, \u201cUh, that is kind of annoying right now.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> I know, Stephana, you talk a lot about the way I organize things and all that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> It looked great as an attractive bachelor. But then, when I was in marriage, it was like, \u201cEverything doesn\u2019t always have to be clean all the time!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> So he\u2019s a cleanie; is that what you\u2019re saying?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> He\u2019s a\u2014I remember saying to him, \u201cI never have met a person who has more pet peeves,\u201d\u2014[Laughter]\u2014everything is a pet peeve. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> But earlier, you thought what?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> I loved it! His car always smelled good. It was organized; there was a place for everything in the car. It was great!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I was like that with Dave. I was like, \u201cYou are so laid back. It\u2019s amazing! I am intense; I\u2019m high strung, and you just make me chill more.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And then, we got married\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And then it became\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cYou are <em>so <\/em>passive! [Laughter] You need to get up and go!\u201d Yes, it\u2019s <em>weird<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, here\u2019s the principle there: Every strength\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014that gets overused becomes a weakness.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> So good.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And in the same way, I think it\u2019s good for husbands and wives to recognize: that thing that you see in your spouse that you would go, \u201cThat\u2019s a weakness,\u201d there is a hidden strength there that\u2019s being overused. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMary Ann has high standards about things; that\u2019s a strength. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> When she overuses it, she develops a critical spirit; that\u2019s a weakness. Dave is relaxed and easy-going; that\u2019s a strength. When he overuses it, it\u2019s passivity. Every strength has a corresponding weakness when it\u2019s overused. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat happens in marriage is\u2014those strengths that we were attracted to\u2014we start to see them up close, more regularly, or they get overused, and we go, \u201cNo, I wanted not that much salt in the stew. I wanted a <em>little<\/em> less of that.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Well, here\u2019s\u2014I would take it to the next step, Bob\u2014I would think, \u201cIt\u2019s <em>my<\/em> job to help you be better at that! Because it\u2019s super-annoying, so I\u2019m going to help you not be super-annoying.\u201d [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And that\u2019s the question\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014you bring it up in your book: \u201cShould we try to change our spouse?\u201d Because, when we start to see those, that\u2019s our first thought\u2014you know\u2014\u201cI just called to say, \u2018I\u2019m going to change you.\u2019\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Is that a good move?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> I definitely think it\u2019s not! We\u2019re not going to change that adult person that we married. I think it\u2019s more an opportunity for us to grow and to recognize that the Lord made him just the way He made him. If I can see those things in him as strengths, then I will be better off.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Stephana, how did you do that? Because you talked about that really bothering you, so what changed?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> It was really prayer\u2014it was time with the Lord, honestly\u2014just asking Him to see myself first. You know, that I not always see flaws in him; because I\u2019m not perfect, and I know that. So asking the Lord to help me to have grace in my relationship with him.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> Yes; and that\u2019s one of the beauties of the DiscoveRING as well: we kind of, accidentally, find out some of these things; but we also find out things about ourselves. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGoing back to the foundation, and relying on Christ in prayer, He will start to reveal <em>you<\/em> when you\u2019re starting to want your spouse to be changed to line up with your idea of what they\u2019re supposed to do or not do. This is one thing that we get couples to do. We want you to be intentional about that DiscoveRING. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you\u2019re just going in\u2014and early on, it\u2019s accidental; but then, okay\u2014because we\u2019re just growing. We\u2019re going to change over five, ten, fifteen years of marriage, individually; but how do you become intentional about continuing to grow closer and learn who your spouse is? Stephana\u2019s not the same person that I married in 2001; I\u2019m definitely not the same person. We try to figure out: \u201cHow do we continue to learn that? What are the habits that we can do to continue to figure it out; so we don\u2019t drift apart and say, \u2018You know, we kind of grew apart. I don\u2019t really know him,\u2019\/\u2018I don\u2019t really know her\u2019?\u201d That becomes something that we didn\u2019t intentionally do.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Stephana, talk to the wife, who has been diligently praying for her spouse. Her husband has no desire to really work on their marriage; he thinks he\u2019s fine. She just keeps going\/she keeps pursuing Jesus. How would you encourage her?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> Well, I think the first thing I would do is acknowledge it\u2019s tough. It\u2019s not an easy thing to do; but if we will surrender all of what we\u2019re dealing with to the Lord, He will give you the grace to walk through that. I just remember a season, where He gave me a Scripture; and I literally wrote it on a notecard so that I could put it on my dashboard\/so that I could put it over the sink. Wherever I frequently was spending my time, I would see that reminder to me. It was Galatians 6:9; it said: \u201cDo not grow weary in well doing, for at the proper time, you\u2019ll reap a harvest if you do not give up.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn that season, that was just a great reminder that He sees me. Regardless of what is happening between Jackie and me, the Lord has not forgotten me; and I need to continue to spend my time knowing that and reminding myself with that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> Yes, she literally had it engraved on her iPad<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>. So when she says she had it everywhere\/everywhere she could put it, she had it. I saw it; everybody saw it. I know, for a fact, in that season and all seasons, it kind of pushed her through as she continued to deal with whatever we\u2019ve gone through in marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And it is interesting\u2014I just had this thought\u2014we often say that we can\u2019t change our spouse; God does that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I still 100 percent agree with that! But at the same time, as you\u2019re discovering things about yourself and about your spouse, God wants to use us as a vehicle or an instrument to help our spouse become like Christ.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Like when I was sitting on the couch, watching something; Ann\u2019s in the kitchen. I was watching something that her brother and I have a common relationship with a person that was playing in this game\/this sports game. Ann says to me, \u201cHey, you should call my brother, Jim, and talk to him about this at half-time; because Jim would love to hear what you\u2019re talking about.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, I\u2019ve got to be honest! If she had said that to me 20 years ago, I would be like, \u201cWhat are you telling me to do? Why are you telling me to call somebody?!\u201d But she has believed in me for so many years, and spoken life to me\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014and trusted me, and loved me, that when she said it, it wasn\u2019t a condemnation. It was an idea\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>\u2014like, \u201cThis will be fun.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>that made me want to go, \u201cShe\u2019s right!\u201d In some ways, I look and I go, \u201cI\u2019m changed!\u201d God did this, but she did it; because she spoke enough life and belief into me that I didn\u2019t see it as a harsh word anymore, like, \u201cI hate how you don\u2019t think this way.\u201d It was like an encouragement.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI pick up the phone, and he\u2019s like, \u201cWhaaat?! I can\u2019t believe you called me! I\u2019m loving talking to you about this!\u201d I would have never done it without that little bit of prodding. I thought, \u201cYou know, God does use our spouse to change us if we do it in a way that is received by our spouse.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> Right; yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> If you\u2019re talking to a couple, in the DiscoveRING phase of marriage, and they\u2019re discovering things, where they go: \u201cThis is not what I hoped for,\u201d \u201cThis is not what I expected\u201d; what\u2019s their best strategy in that phase of marriage? How do you get through that? Do you just keep your mouth shut, and pray, and put the Scriptures all over your house?\u2014or do you confront things? What do you do?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> I think it starts with a conversation with your spouse, recognizing that, first of all, you\u2019re on the same team. You\u2019re not trying to hurt them.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Do you say that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> I think you do; I think you do. You have to have that safe place to have conversations that may be more difficult. We call it: \u201cSpeaking the truth in love.\u201d You might even quote that\/say, \u201cI need to have a moment to speak the truth in love to you,\u201d so that that can be prefaced and received. But I do think you have to have those conversations and be able to say, \u201cYou\u2019re not perfect; I still love you.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> Yes; right. There\u2019s an illustration a pastor counseled us with that kind of helps you get a perspective on what\u2019s happening. I think that\u2019s one thing that we\u2019ll tell couples is: \u201cOkay, here\u2019s the perspective.\u201d It uses a hammer and a chisel as the illustration. He\u2019s making a sculpture; there\u2019s a guy who\u2019s creating something. God is wielding the hammer. Sometimes, you are the chisel; and sometimes, you are the hammer.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf I\u2019m the hammer, God is going to use me to hit Stephana, as the chisel, to make this thing He\u2019s trying to create in us together\/this marriage. And then, sometimes, it flip-flops; she\u2019s the hammer. God\u2019s still wielding it. He uses both of us to create something greater in marriage that we would have no idea [of], but it hurts sometimes; it\u2019s painful!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you\u2019re the hammer, even though you\u2019re hitting, you\u2019re still getting some pain\/you\u2019re getting some contact. When you\u2019re the chisel, definitely, you\u2019re getting hit by something hard every single time. It\u2019s like, \u201cThis is uncomfortable, Lord!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That sounds <em>terrible<\/em>!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> It does! [Laughter] It does. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And it is hard sometimes; isn\u2019t it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> It is hard.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> But the outcome\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes, is beautiful.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014which is what you\u2019re aiming for. You\u2019ve got to recognize, \u201cWe\u2019re aiming for something that is bigger and more beautiful; so yes, we\u2019re going to go through some painful periods.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> But doesn\u2019t the Bible tell us that suffering produces character?\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014that when we press through these\u2014I\u2019ve never forgotten somebody we had on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>,years ago, who said, in the state of Oklahoma, they had done some surveys. They went to people, who had filed for divorce, but had not gone through with it. In every state, there are people who file\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014and for whatever reason, don\u2019t go through with it. They went to these people, at least five years after they had filed, and they said to them, \u201cToday, how would you rate your marriage, on a scale of 1-5, with 5 being the best ever and 1 being terrible?\u201d And 83 percent of the people, who had filed for divorce five years or more earlier, said, \u201cOur marriage is a 4 or a 5.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> Wow!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> The couples, who had persevered through the hard times\u2014this is, really, you go from the DiscoveRING phase to the PerseveRING phase. It\u2019s the couples who persevere in the hard times\u2014who get through them\/get out on the other side\u2014and say, \u201cWe\u2019re in a better place\u2014we\u2019ve grown; we\u2019ve learned\u2014the hammer and the chisel did its work. We\u2019ve got something more beautiful and more glorious here.\u201d Oftentimes, it\u2019s just couples saying, \u201cOkay, let\u2019s get through this together,\u201d and there can be glory on the other side of this.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think all of us would agree: \u201cOur marriage looks <em>nothing<\/em> like it did at the beginning.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> Yes,\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Aren\u2019t you guys\u2014wouldn\u2019t you say the same?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> Absolutely.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And it has been through those <em>hard <\/em>moments of the chisel and the hammer that has formed something beautiful.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And aren\u2019t we glad?\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014that our marriage doesn\u2019t look like it did in the early years; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; we may not be glad in the moment\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014but man! I\u2019m so thankful that God can use those tough times to shape us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes, yes; I\u2019ve shared this before; but there was a season in our marriage, early on\u2014we\u2019d been married for five years\u2014for a variety of circumstances, we were living in a new city in a house that\u2014I\u2019d bought this house that Mary Ann had never seen before\u2014it was just\/it was not a <em>good <\/em>season. She was pregnant with our second child; she\u2019s depressed. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m coming home at night and wishing I didn\u2019t have to come home at night. I\u2019d been at work all day; I come home: she\u2019s miserable; she\u2019s unhappy. I remember there was a night I was out in the backyard, talking to God\u2014and just kicking the dirt\u2014and going, \u201cI am not going to get a divorce, because I can\u2019t\u2014and I won\u2019t, and I shouldn\u2019t\u2014but I understand why people want to.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> To be in that place, where you go, \u201cI don\u2019t want to be here. This moment is not pleasant.\u201d Now, I can look back on that, having been married, coming up on 42 years, and go, \u201cWas that hard?\u201d\u2014yes. \u201cDid God work through that?\u201d\u2014absolutely! \u201cAm I glad we\u2019re together today?\u201d\u2014for a <em>million<\/em> reasons, I am! \u201cDid I feel that way in the backyard?\u201d\u2014no! I just thought, \u201cI want this moment to stop, because this is unpleasant.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd that\u2019s\u2014again, we\u2019re back to the enduring in hardships\u2014which once you discover: \u201cOh, it\u2019s not going to be the way I thought it was going to be,\u201d\u2014then there are going to be some things you\u2019ve got to endure, but perseverance pays off.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You know, as we\u2019re talking, I\u2019m thinking, \u201cOh! I would love every engaged couple to hear this conversation!\u201d Wouldn\u2019t you?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> Yes, yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Because this is the reality. It\u2019s not going to be easy\u2014it\u2019s not, maybe, what you think it will be: \u201cOh, this is wonderful; and I\u2019m always going to love you,\u201d\u2014but it\u2019s more beautiful.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And it\u2019s the reality of marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> Yes; I think that is what our hope is\u2014that couples will see that there are more rings\u2014that they can be filled with hope\/that they can go through the hard rings and get to other rings. I think that\u2019s the point: we didn\u2019t realize that there\u2019s more to this. We just thought, \u201cThis is where we\u2019re going to be.\u201d And also, that we were the weird couple going through this, like, \u201cWe\u2019re the only ones.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> Yes; \u201cWe\u2019re the only crazy couple who experiences this type of stuff.\u201d [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Whenever we\u2019re doing premarital counseling, I will say to couples, \u201cNow, it\u2019s going to be hard.\u201d And Mary Ann will say, \u201cIt\u2019s going to be <em>great<\/em>!\u201d [Laughter] And I will say, \u201cYes; it\u2019s going to be great, and it\u2019s going to be hard.\u201d And she\u2019ll say, \u201cBut it\u2019s going to be <em>great<\/em>!\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And both are true.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> It\u2019s true.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> Yes, yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We want couples to understand: \u201cThere\u2019s <em>real<\/em> greatness and joy; you will <em>love <\/em>being married. And there\u2019s going to be some hard stuff\/maybe some of the hardest stuff you\u2019ve ever faced as a human being.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; I know that there\u2019s a Christmas movie I want to watch every year. Ann, what is it?\u2014she never wants to watch it\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> No, I do like it; it\u2019s called <em>The Family Man. <\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014<em>The Family Man<\/em> with Nicholas Cage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> Oh, yes!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> Okay.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And I\u2019m not recommending it\u2014there are some things in there I would not recommend\u2014but it hits my heart. Again, the whole gist of the thing is: you have Nicholas Cage, this single man, who\u2019s living the life in New York. He\u2019s got the cars, and the penthouse suite, and women, and money, and a big corporation. It\u2019s a glimpse\/the whole movie is like: \u201cThis is what might have happened if you had married your college sweetheart.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> But they didn\u2019t, so they give him this glimpse that he\u2019s married with two kids and a little house in New Jersey. By the end of the movie, he\u2019s like, \u201cThis is what I missed!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Every time I watch it, I tear up; because I think of my mom and dad. You know, it\u2019s like they walked away from that; and I was the son. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I think it hits me probably stronger than most, because it\u2019s like I think couples lose the vision of what it can be if they hold on\/\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> Right\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014persevere, and they fight for their marriage; there\u2019s something that is beautiful. Again, it\u2019s <em>hard<\/em>!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It\u2019s really hard, and it <em>never<\/em> gets not hard. It\u2019s always going to be difficult, but to keep that vision that there\u2019s something worth fighting for: \u201cI\u2019m not going to walk away. I\u2019m going to hang in here.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cI\u2019m going to keep the wedding ring on.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cAnd I\u2019m going to fight for it, because there\u2019s something beautiful that I can\u2019t even see yet; but if I hold on\u2026\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd Ann and I are there; I think we all are. It\u2019s like we\u2019re living <em>The Family Man<\/em> vision.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> We\u2019ve got a glimpse: \u201cIt\u2019s real, and it\u2019s worth fighting for.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And I think, Dave, the key, too, is holding onto Jesus. I mean, we\u2019re holding onto Him as we\u2019re holding onto one another. I think that\u2019s the key.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You\u2019re making me think of Andrew Peterson, who wrote a song called <em>Family Man<\/em>. He says: \u201cI\u2019m a family man; traded in my Mustang for a mini-van. This is not what I was headed for when I began. This was not my plan, but it\u2019s so much better than.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> That\u2019s good; that\u2019s true.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That\u2019s the vision you guys cast in the book, <em>The 7 Rings of Marriage. <\/em>We\u2019re making that book available to our listeners this week. Any <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>listener, who can pitch in to help with the ongoing costs of producing and syndicating this daily program\u2014keeping our website up and operating, all of the resources we produce, the events that we host\u2014you make all of that possible when you say, \u201cI like what FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> is doing, and I want to see it continue. I think this is important for me, for my family, for our community.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you can say, \u201cAmen,\u201d to that, then go on our website today and make a donation; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to donate to the ministry. Ask for a copy of Jackie and Stephana Bledsoe\u2019s book, <em>The 7 Rings of Marriage: Your Model for a Lasting and Fulfilling Marriage.<\/em> It\u2019s our thank-you gift when you donate today. Again, you can donate,online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or call to donate at 1-800-358-6329; that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBy the way, thanks to those of you who get in touch with us and who donate. We really do appreciate hearing from you. It\u2019s always nice to hear about how God is using <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> in your life, in your marriage, in your family. Thank you for sharing that with us when you get in touch with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, I want to remind you about an event that we have coming up about three-and-a-half weeks from now. On April 24<sup>th<\/sup>\u2014on a Saturday\u2014it\u2019s the 2021 <em>Blended &amp; Blessed<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup>event, hosted by Ron Deal. It\u2019s for couples: who are in blended marriages\/blended families, or maybe you know somebody who is, maybe you have a ministry at your church to blended couples, you have a heart for helping blended couples. This event is a one-day online event to talk about how we can help strengthen the marriages and families of blended couples in our world. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere\u2019s more information about this one-day livestream event. It\u2019s taking place, again, on Saturday, April 24<sup>th<\/sup>. You can go to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com, to find out more. If you\u2019re in a blended family, or know someone who is, pass this information along to them; plan to join us on the 24<sup>th<\/sup> for the one-day <em>Blended &amp; Blessed <\/em>event.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd be sure to be with us, again, tomorrow when we\u2019re going to talk about the outer rings of marriage\u2014about the phase we should all be aspiring to\u2014the stage of marriage, where we are ProspeRING and where we are MentoRING others. We\u2019re going to hear more, tomorrow, from Jackie and Stephana Bledsoe. I hope you can be with us as well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThanks today to our engineer, Keith Lynch. We got some extra help from Bruce Goff, again, today and our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We we\u2019ll see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2021 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/306801","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=306801"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=306801"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=306801"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=306801"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=306801"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=306801"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=306801"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}