{"id":306799,"date":"2021-03-29T07:01:06","date_gmt":"2021-03-29T11:01:06","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/starting-with-a-firm-foundation\/"},"modified":"2024-10-08T00:16:22","modified_gmt":"2024-10-08T04:16:22","slug":"starting-with-a-firm-foundation","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/starting-with-a-firm-foundation\/","title":{"rendered":"Starting With a Firm Foundation"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>What&#8217;s more important than the ring in a marriage engagement? Jackie and Stephana Bledsoe explain what they wish they hadn&#8217;t learned the hard way.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2021-03-29.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:26:32","filesize":"24.3M","filesize_raw":"25480317","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2807,2862],"tags":[2877],"podcast_series":[8435],"cwp_profile":[9702],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-306799","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-engagements-and-weddings","category-understanding-differences","tag-marriage","podcast_series-the-7-rings-of-marriage","cwp_profile-jackie-and-stephana-bledsoe","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/306799\/starting-with-a-firm-foundation","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/306799\/starting-with-a-firm-foundation","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"4u97XlL78q\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/starting-with-a-firm-foundation\/\">Starting With a Firm Foundation<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/starting-with-a-firm-foundation\/embed\/#?secret=4u97XlL78q\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Starting With a Firm Foundation&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"4u97XlL78q\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2021-03-29.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2021-03-29.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Jackie and Stephana Bledsoe were not walking with Christ when they got married; they were already parents. After they were married, and they experienced turbulence, Stephana began to wonder if maybe she had gotten married outside of God\u2019s will.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> \u201cI didn\u2019t ask God. I didn\u2019t know that He said, \u2018This is supposed to be my husband\u2019; so what do I do now? Because now, you\u2019re telling me divorce is not an option.\u201d I just remember the counsel that I received at that time was that, if I made this commitment to Jackie in marriage, and even if it was out of order, God\u2019s grace was big enough to cover it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Monday, March 29<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I'm Bob Lepine. You can find us online at FamilyLifeToday.com. We\u2019ll hear from Jackie and Stephana Bledsoe today about marriage being a covenant\u2014how once we say, \u201cI do,\u201d\u2014God adds His \u201cAmen; so be it,\u201d and the covenant is sealed. Stay tuned. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. I\u2019ll do a quick poll here. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Uh-oh.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We\u2019ll see what you did and what you would recommend. Okay, the question is: \u201cShould a husband-to-be\/should he include his girlfriend in the search for a wedding ring or should he pick it out and surprise her?\u201d [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFirst, I want to know what you did. Did Ann see the ring you picked out for her before you picked it out for her?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It\u2019s been so long.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You don\u2019t remember?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019m going to guess. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Really?!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, my goodness!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> She did <em>not<\/em> see it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I didn\u2019t. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Oh, I was right! [Laughter] I honestly wasn\u2019t sure.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> <em>But<\/em> I did give him an idea\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014some hints.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014yes, \u201cThis is kind of what I like.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Like you were out at the mall and you just said\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think so, yes; and I pointed it out for him.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019ve got to be honest. She\u2019s been giving me hints again, after 40 years, like, \u201cCould we maybe update this?\u201d [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u201cThis is what the updated one would look like.\u201d [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMary Ann did <em>not<\/em> see the one that I picked out for her until I proposed\/until I offered it to her. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>And did she have <em>any<\/em> input? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I don\u2019t remember hearing from her what she had in mind. I think I picked it out all on my own, which could be\u2014we\u2019ll talk about this\u2014this could be a big fail for somebody.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019ve got some friends, who are joining us today, who are\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014who are experts in rings. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> They know something about rings. Jackie and Stephana Bledsoe are joining us on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Jackie, Stephana, welcome. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> Thank you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> Thank you; we\u2019re excited to be here.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> The Bledsoes speak with us at our <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> marriage getaways. They\u2019re from Indianapolis; they do ministry in the marriage space. They\u2019ve written a book called <em>The 7 Rings of Marriage<\/em>, which got me thinking about engagement rings. Did you pick out Stephana\u2019s engagement ring before you proposed? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> I did.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> She didn\u2019t see it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> She did <em>4<\/em> see it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> I did not.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Did you like it? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> I did like it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That\u2019s a good thing. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You still like it? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> Um.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Ohhh! [Laughter] Do you wish you would have had a say in it? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> I do, yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> If you were counselling a young groom-to-be today, would you say, \u201cBring her in,\u201d or would you say, \u201cSurprise her\u201d? What\u2019s your answer?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> I\u2019d say, \u201cLet her have input.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> She needs to have a\u2014but then how do you\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> The wedding ring is forever.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> But then you can\u2019t really do the <em>surprise<\/em> thing if she knows you\u2019re shopping for rings.<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana: <\/strong>If you\u2019re talking about marriage, and you\u2019re praying about marriage in advance, then I think you are kind of expecting a ring to come at some point. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Okay, that\u2019s a good point.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> So maybe you don\u2019t know <em>when<\/em> it\u2019s going to come but just get an idea of what she likes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> That seems to like ruin it though.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> It does. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> No!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Of course, I\u2019m not the woman getting the ring; but\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I\u2019m agreeing\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014I don\u2019t want\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014you\u2019re already <em>talking<\/em> about it. You\u2019re going to wear that ring for a lifetime; you\u2019d like to have a little input. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Can he get like a fake one and then, when she gets it, say, \u201cThis isn\u2019t the real one. You get to go with me, and we get to pick it out\u201d? No; it\u2019s sort of permanent?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> The whole idea of rings\u2014the book that you\u2019ve written called <em>The 7 Rings of Marriage<\/em>\u2014you take that picture of a ring and you say: \u201cThere are seasons\/there are episodes; we evolve in our relationship in marriage.\u201d But it all does start in that pre-marriage period; doesn\u2019t it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> Yes, it starts with the engagement ring. At that point, that\u2019s the excitement. You\u2019re just like, \u201cYes! She said, \u2018Yes.\u2019\u201d That was a big deal to me; because I wasn\u2019t sure that she was going to say, \u201cYes.\u201d When she said, \u201cYes,\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cYes, we\u2019re here.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut now, we have to go through\u2014it\u2019s like, \u201cOkay, what\u2019s next?\u201d\u2014the excitement is there. When the excitement wears off: \u201cWhat are we going to depend on?\u201d\u2014that\u2019s your foundation. That\u2019s where you kind of lean on that and you want to go, \u201cWe\u2019ve got to build something that is going to be able to build a tall and strong marriage that lasts forever.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I want to know this: \u201cWhat is your engaged story? How did you propose?\u2014was it like epic?\u2014was it this cool moment?\u201d [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> Was it epic, Babe? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> It was special, but it was not expected. We weren\u2019t preparing for it; we hadn\u2019t prayed about it. It was not what we would advise. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> Yes, our story is the opposite of what we teach couples now. We were not prepared, because our relationship was on rocky ground at the time. It was a point, where I was like, \u201cOkay, Lord, is this who You\u2019ve got for me for the rest of my life? If so, what do I do?\u201d I was like, \u201cOkay, I\u2019m going to get myself together.\u201d It was actually her birthday, 2001. I was like, \u201cOkay,\u201d\u2014this is not what you pray, fellas; this is not what you say\u2014I said, \u201cIf she says, \u2018Yes,\u2019 then, yes, that means God did set her aside for me. If she says, \u2018No,\u2019 then it wasn\u2019t it; so keep going\u201d; [Laughter] but no.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe details of the actual proposal: we were at her favorite restaurant at the time, which is no longer there. The whole time we\u2019re talking, I couldn\u2019t think. I\u2019m sitting here, nervous. It was almost, at that point, it was like, \u201cAm I going to do it, or am I not going to do it?\u201d I finally did it. I got down on one knee and I asked her. I don\u2019t think she could even hear what I said. I could hear the people, saying, \u201cIs this what I think it is?\u201d behind us. I was like, \u201cUh-oh, now we\u2019ve got an audience; so she <em>has<\/em> to say, \u201cYes.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Oh, wow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> I ask her the question, and I\u2019ll let you share your side of that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> It was sweet; and I said, \u201cYes,\u201d obviously. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> How long had you guys been dating?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> Probably two or three years.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Wait; why didn\u2019t you expect it after two or three years?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> We were completely out of order, so we weren\u2019t exclusive to one another at the time. Jackie wasn\u2019t exclusive. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh! [Laughter] Well, this explains why\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> What\u2019s going on here, Jackie?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014you\u2019re saying, \u201cWe did it wrong; and now, we have a vision\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cof how to do it.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> There was no prayer; there was no counsel; there was no pre-marital counselling. It was just kind of me living a life; and God was like, \u201cThis is not where you\u2019re supposed to be going with your life.\u201d He just started making me more\/increasingly more uncomfortable with how we were living\u2014how I was living\u2014I can\u2019t put that on Stephana. Finally, I was like, \u201cOkay, Lord; this is what I want to do.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe actually had\/our daughter was ten months old at our wedding day, so we were <em>completely<\/em> out of order. We were that couple, sitting in the small group and hearing everybody share their marriage story: \u201cOh, I prayed for this,\u201d and \u201cI prayed for that,\u201d \u201cWe got pre-marital counseling.\u201d We were kind of like\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> \u201cDon\u2019t call on us.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> \u201cThat wasn\u2019t us; we didn\u2019t do it.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe felt shame\/we felt shame because of that. So now, we share it openly; because we know there\u2019s some other couples that didn\u2019t start the \u201cright way,\u201d which is we know is in order with what God says. We don\u2019t do those things before marriage, because we know what it brings <em>into<\/em> marriage when we do that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Okay, you\u2019ve got to back us all the way up; because I\u2019m doing the numbers in my head. So you guys met when you were teenagers?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Both:<\/strong> We did.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And started dating while you were teenagers?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> Yes, we met my senior year\/Stephana\u2019s sophomore year in high school\u2014small town\/40,000 people\u2014everybody knows everybody. For whatever reason, we didn\u2019t meet until my senior year. Our families\u2014literally, our grandmothers\/our maternal grandmothers\u2014were best friends. But God must have known what she would have seen in me, had she met me before then. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe were friends then\/kind of dated a little bit. I went away to college. The mutual friend that introduced us kept in contact with both of us, wanting to always let us know: \u201cHey, Jackie\u2019s back in town,\u201d or \u201cHey, did you know Stephana\u2019s here?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tEverybody else kind of saw something there; but I don\u2019t think, mentally or emotionally, I was ready. After graduating college, I moved to Indianapolis. She was one of the two people that I met or that I had known since I was in that new city. We kind of got re-introduced by the same mutual friend. That started a friendship\u2014probably the best way it should have started from the beginning\u2014that we didn\u2019t start when we were in high school. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> That\u2019s the quick summary of it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> But it sounds like you had some good input: you\u2019re listening to other couples, and they\u2019re talking about how to do it right; yet, you <em>didn\u2019t<\/em>. The question is: \u201cWhy?\u201d Was it: \u201cWe don\u2019t need that\u201d?\u2014\u201cWe don\u2019t believe that\u201d? Was there something going on that made you go, \u201cThat\u2019s good wisdom, but not for us.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie: <\/strong>Those couples we met <em>after<\/em> we were married. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Oh, okay.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> We didn\u2019t have those relationships before we were married. We didn\u2019t have the right environment around us at that time for a marriage the way we know God intended it to be. We say we got our pre-marital counselling at around our first anniversary, which makes no sense. [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut just through a class at our church that we took, and a couple\u2014we\u2019re kind of connected to them; they\u2019re attracted to us\u2014we really continued a conversation with them. That\u2019s where we met the other couples; and then, our circle started to change. God just started surrounding us with couples, who are living for him in their marriages. Then we found out it was like, \u201cOkay; this is how a marriage should be done.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Tell us about: \u201cHow did that come to be? Were you already involved in church? What was going on <em>spiritually<\/em> as you guys were engaged and then you were getting married?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> I think, after we had our daughter, it made me want to live life the right way. I started going to church; Jackie came with us to church. We just jumped into everything that we possibly could. Every class the church was offering, we were involved in it. We just started learning, and growing, and having mentors we didn\u2019t even know that we needed. That was kind of the beginning.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> Yes, we jumped in. Once we got exposure to it, and once God touched our heart, it was like, \u201cOkay, this is what we need to do.\u201d We were hungry for what He was teaching. We have a family that we don\u2019t know if it\u2019s going to last as a family, like it should be; so I wanted to change direction. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI just believe that God put on my heart that He was going to use me to change the direction of our family; and then also, not just us, but extended family and things like that. He\u2019s continued to do that. It started with us saying, \u201cYes,\u201d to Him then after we had continually just lived the way we wanted to.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> As you write in the book about the Engagement RING\u2014you know, the first ring\u2014\u201cWhat should happen? What is your vision?\u201d You call it the \u201cVision Phase\u201d; right?\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u2014it\u2019s where you start getting a vision for what marriage is. Talk to a pre-married couple and say, \u201cOkay, what should happen in that? What would be the best for a couple that\u2019s dating or going to get engaged?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Because most couples are living together before they get married; is that <em>best<\/em>?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> I definitely say it\u2019s not best. It makes it easy for you to have an escape when things don\u2019t go the way that you want. What Jackie and I realized, in that early phase, is that we were both selfish. We had lived our lives for ourselves in that it wasn\u2019t easy to come into marriage and sacrifice in different areas. We could have easily said, \u201cThis is not working. I don\u2019t like it this way, and I\u2019m out.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhereas, if you do it the right way, and you\u2019re living for the Lord, and your praying and seeking Him, then when you come together, it\u2019s not an easy out. It\u2019s a covenant that you\u2019ve made, not just with that other person, but with the Lord. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> Yes, the Engagement RING is really about creating that foundation; and that foundation is rooted in a relationship with Jesus Christ. We realized that after, at our first anniversary; so we wanted to make sure that everything that we did, at that point, was built on that foundation. It\u2019s like, \u201cHow would the Lord have us handle this? What do we need to do?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe sought out His Word in counsel; we sought out His Word in classes; we read His Word; we prayed. That set the foundation; because we were counselled, \u201cWe\u2019re going to come into disagreements\/we\u2019ll be at different spectrums; but at the end of the day, we\u2019re going to agree on one thing: \u2018Okay, we\u2019re going to do our best to try to find out how Christ would have us to handle this, and we\u2019re going to try to do that as best we can.\u2019\u201d Without that, I don\u2019t know what we would have done. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Let\u2019s say you meet Dave and I for the first time. We\u2019re engaged; we\u2019re living together. We have no date set to get married. We\u2019re like, \u201cIt\u2019s really hard, but we don\u2019t see the hurry. We don\u2019t see the rush.\u201d Counsel us, and we\u2019re just starting to grow in our relationship with Jesus. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> Yes; that\u2019s many couples, I think, today as marriage is continuing to not be as important as it used to be. I think I would start just asking questions and kind of get into their mind: \u201cWhy are they making these decisions?\u201d \u201cWhy are you choosing to live together now?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u201cOur parents divorced\u2014both of our parents\u2014seems really risky. Our whole future is at stake; why would we put that on the line?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> Yes, we\u2019d probably point them to the Scripture, and just start going into the Scripture. At that time, we\u2019d really want to know if you guys were a couple, who believed in Christ\/if you had a relationship with Him or not. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf not, then we\u2019d have to start there; because we can talk to them until we\u2019re blue in the face about all kinds of other things and \u201cHere\u2019s why you shouldn\u2019t do it\u201d; but if we don\u2019t get them rooted in the truth and get that relationship, then they can\u2019t really receive that in their heart.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Talk now\u2014that\u2019s ring number one, the Engagement RING\u2014Wedding RING: You call it the \u201cCommitment Phase.\u201d What\u2019s happening during this phase?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> It goes from just the butterflies to: \u201cWe\u2019re in a relationship that we\u2019re committed to be in for the long run.\u201d There\u2019s no more outs; there\u2019s no more options. It is a relationship that you are committed to, because you made this with your spouse and the Lord.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> Yes, we used to have a real estate investing company. Every month, I would look at probably hundreds of properties, either virtually or driving neighborhoods. We signed a lot of contracts to purchase properties, but we didn\u2019t purchase every single one of them. Because every single one of them had basically an out clause or basically a contingency clause\u2014where if something happened, or something about the house didn\u2019t line up, or maybe the numbers didn\u2019t line up, or we discover something new\u2014it\u2019s like, \u201cOh, this is no longer a great investment for us\u201d; we could be out.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s the opposite of what happens during this ring; because this is a covenant commitment, where no matter if Stephana meets the expectations that I set, which may be the right expectations or not, or whatever it may be\u2014and vice versa\u2014that we have created a relationship built on a covenant commitment between us and between Christ as well. That\u2019s what that commitment is. It\u2019s stronger than just a contract that you can sign and say, \u201cOh, we\u2019re out of it.\u201d \u201cWe are committing, in a covenant way\u2014where: \u201cNo matter what you do; no matter what I do, we\u2019re in this thing together and with God.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s what you mean by \u201cthe cornerstone,\u201d that Jesus is the cornerstone of your marriage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> How did that play out for you guys, early on? Did you struggle as you first got married? Did you hit a phase of a reality phase?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> Yes; I think in that first class that we were in, I remember questioning, as we were hearing everybody else\u2019s story: \u201cI didn\u2019t do that; I didn\u2019t ask God. I don\u2019t know that He said, \u2018This is supposed to be my husband\u2019; so what do I do now? Because now, you\u2019re telling me divorce is not an option.\u201d I just remember the counsel that I received at that time was that, if I made this commitment to Jackie in marriage, and even if it was out of order, God\u2019s grace was big enough to cover it. That was a turning point for us in the marriage, just realizing that God would take care of even our mess. He was big enough for that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You were thinking, \u201cI want out of here\u201d?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana: <\/strong>I was questioning whether I had made the right decision; I definitely was.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014based on what?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> Just hearing other people\u2019s story, and the way that it <em>should<\/em> have been done, and knowing that we hadn\u2019t done that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Were you <em>happy<\/em> in your marriage?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> It was hard; that first year was really hard. We were both\u2014Jackie\u2019s the youngest and I was an only child\u2014so we were both <em>very<\/em> selfish. We hadn\u2019t ever had to \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tconsider another person\u2019s wellbeing in a relationship, so that was tough. We were coming up against a lot of disagreements on how to be married.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> A couple could be listening, thinking, \u201cWell, we did it the right way; and we still feel the same thing.\u201d You know, like, \u201cWe try to do the right steps; and yet, we\u2019re in year one, <em>feeling<\/em> the same thing you felt.\u201d You\u2019re looking at it, like, \u201cWe did it backwards.\u201d [Others say] \u201cWe did it the right way; and we still we\u2019re like, \u2018I\u2019m done; this is so hard. This isn\u2019t going to work; I\u2019m out of here.\u2019\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I would add, too, I had a couple come up to us at the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> conference; and they said, \u201cWe got married in Vegas. We were so drunk, we had no idea what we were doing.\u201d They came to the conference, saying, \u201cI think that we\u2019re supposed to get out of this, because we didn\u2019t do it God\u2019s way.\u201d It\u2019s a little bit what you were sharing before, like, \u201cIs God in that?\u201d\u2014that\u2019s what they asked me\u2014\u201cWe weren\u2019t Christians at the time.\u201d How do you address that with people?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> Yes, that\u2019s where you have to lean on Him; that\u2019s where that foundation is so crucial. Just because you did it God\u2019s way, and you prayed and you sought counsel, does not keep you from going through challenges or troubles.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> We\u2019re told to expect fiery ordeals in His Word; He teaches that. We\u2019re going to go through some things, and that\u2019s where you\u2019ve got to have that to fall back on. You\u2019ve got to have your relationship with Him, that: \u201cGod promised this. God will not leave us or forsake us.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat was it for us; it was so rough and so rocky. Just really\u2014you know, you think\u2014two young kids coming together, who neither one of us had fully thought about marriage. We had a ten-month-old. We were trying to learn each other with some baggage in our history. We were also trying to figure out life on our own, and we\u2019re trying to raise a baby. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, all of a sudden, we\u2019re married. This stuff is just so much\/so any little conversation could spin off into something that would last days, weeks or whatever. A couple, who\u2019s brand new, or who has done everything what we\u2019re counselling and coaching couples to do now, can go through the same stuff. But we always had to revert back to His Word. We always had to revert back to prayer and just trust Him in that point. That doesn\u2019t make it any easier, but that\u2019s what we had to hold on; that\u2019s what we believed; that\u2019s what we were taught; and that\u2019s what we were coached at that stage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI guess you can say that we were blind enough to do it. But I\u2019m so glad that we were,\u00a0 because that allowed us\u2014God to get into our hearts to start working on us individually\u2014and not me praying about Stephana, \u201cI wish she would do this,\u201d or vice versa. But He worked on us; He began to work on us, and He kept us through whatever storms we went through. There were some storms we went through.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It\u2019s interesting, too, because you call this Wedding RING the \u201cCommitment Phase.\u201d It\u2019s easy to think, sometimes, you make a commitment; and you\u2019re done\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014like, \u201cOkay, I made it,\u201d\u2014but the Commitment Phase never ends. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> That ring\u2019s never coming off. It\u2019s like you have to almost up your commitment <em>daily<\/em>\/sometimes, <em>hourly<\/em>; because you get so hurt, or so frustrated, or so discouraged, mostly in your spouse; right? Because you\u2019re good, but your spouse\u2014[Laughter]\u2014no; I\u2019m kidding. But you do know it\u2019s like working out\u2014same thing\u2014it\u2019s like, I\u2019ve got to sort of re-up every time I walk into the gym; or actually, I\u2019ve got to re-up <em>to get to the gym<\/em>\/to say, \u201cI\u2019m going to do it again.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDoes that ever end? I mean, you\u2019ve been married many years now. The commitment isn\u2019t just the wedding ring\u2014it doesn\u2019t just happen on wedding day or, even, first six months or first year\u2014it never ends. How do you live that out?\u2014because there\u2019s going to be days coming\/there\u2019s a couple, listening right now, that says, \u201cI\u2019m done.\u201d How do you speak to them and say, \u201cDon\u2019t give up. Keep re-upping your commitment.\u201d What would you say?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> You\u2019re constantly continuing to grow closer to your spouse. I think it\u2019s \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDr. Chapman that says, \u201cMarriages either grow or they regress; they never stand still.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you\u2019re not practicing your oneness, and getting closer to each other in your marriage, then you\u2019re going the opposite way. It is a constant thing that you have to remind yourself. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s\u2014I forgot the quote\u2014somebody said, \u201cMotivation is like taking a bath. You can\u2019t just do it once; you\u2019ve got to do it every day.\u201d [Laughter] Continue to push yourself forward in connection, and try\/and striving for oneness. It is a never-ending thing for us; we understand that. \u201cCan I make the right decision today\u2014and something happened between us\u2014and then, next week, make the wrong decision?\u201d\u2014all the time. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut I have to get up, like you said\u2014in the morning, you don\u2019t feel like working out\u2014but now it\u2019s like, \u201cI\u2019ve got to get up today, and I\u2019ve got to go to the gym.\u201d \u201cI\u2019ve got to get up, and I\u2019ve got to show kindness,\u201d \u201cI\u2019ve got to show love to my wife.\u201d I\u2019ve got to do all these different things, because <em>it<\/em> <em>just doesn\u2019t come natural<\/em> for us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I\u2019m hearing two big ideas emerge from this conversation. One is: \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you\u2019re on the front-end of your relationship\u2014in the engagement or in the first year marriage\u2014your foundation really is important.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou\u2019re building a future on the foundation you are pouring today. So don\u2019t skimp; don\u2019t shift into neutral and just cruise. Be intentional; be purposeful; build a strong foundation. In the Engagement RING period, do the hard work of premarital preparation; get advice; get wisdom; learn; grow. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn that first year of marriage, where you hit those bumps and those hiccups\u2014and those do come along for all of us\u2014instead of just going, \u201cOh, I must have made a mistake,\u201d say, \u201cLet me figure out how we make this work; other couples have.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> The second big idea I\u2019m hearing emerge out of this is:\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you\u2019re ten or fifteen\/twenty years in, and you go, \u201cWe didn\u2019t pour a good foundation. I mean, we messed up on that early phase.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOkay; call Perma Jack [Foundation Repair]\u2014[Laughter] \u2014I mean, get somebody out there; because your foundation can be fixed\/it can be repaired. It\u2019s not like, \u201cWell, we just need to blow this up and start all over again.\u201d No; you need to do the repair work. Get some counselling; get to a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup>. Do the work <em>today<\/em>. It may be hard work today, because you didn\u2019t pour the foundation well at the beginning; but do the work today, so that you can start building for a new future. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I don\u2019t even know if you\u2019re aware that you mentioned, several times, mentoring: \u201cour mentors\u201d\/\u201dour mentors.\u201d I think some people think they can do it alone; they have Jesus. But that mentoring is really important\u2014that you have people, ahead of you, that you can look up to that are speaking into you; that are continually observing and helping; and someone to go to\u2014we need that in the body of Christ. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> We\u2019re supposed to have that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Also, obviously, like Bob said, get to a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em>; pick up a book called <em>The 7 Rings of Marriage<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> There you go. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019m guessing you\u2019d say, \u201cRead it together\u2014not just alone\u2014together.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> Absolutely. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cAnd start working on the marriage.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And figure out: \u201cWhere are we?\u201d or \u201cWhere did we do it right? Where did we do it wrong? How can we move forward in health and in strength?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019re making your book available this week to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners, who can help support the ministry with a donation. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThanks to those of you, who partner with us to expand the reach of this program. You\u2019re helping us reach hundreds of thousands of people every day\u2014who are tuning into <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> on local radio stations, receiving this via podcast, using our mobile app so they can listen\u2014lots of different ways that people are connecting with <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. People are telling Alexa<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> to play <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> and listening to us that way. You make that possible when you support the ongoing work of this ministry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you can make a donation today, we\u2019d love to say, \u201cThank you,\u201d by sending you Jackie and Stephana Bledsoe\u2019s book, <em>The 7 Rings of Marriage: Your Model for a Lasting and Fulfilling Marriage<\/em>. The book is our thank-you gift to you when you donate to support <em>FamilyLife Today. <\/em>You can make that donation, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can call to donate: 1-800-FL-TODAY is our number. Again, the number is 1-800-358-6329; 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBy the way, we just wrapped up our first <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> in more than a year\u2014had the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> in Branson, Missouri\u2014we still have a handful of these events happening this spring. I\u2019m not giving you details; because these details are kind of changing as time goes\u2014depending on what is going on in different regions and hotel ballroom policies\u2014things like that. But you can go to our website, FamilyLife Today.com, and find out when you can join the Bledsoes, or the Wilsons, or any of us at these <em>Weekend to Remember <\/em>marriage getaways that we host in cities all around the country. Again, find out more about the spring schedule for <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaways. Our hope and prayer is that, come fall, we\u2019ll be back, going full strength, with the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em>; so stay connected. We\u2019ll keep you up to date with that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe hope you can join us, again, tomorrow as we\u2019re going to continue talking about the stages or phases that marriages go through with Jackie and Stephana Bledsoe. I hope you\u2019ll be back as well.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch. We got some extra help this week from Bruce Goff and, of course, our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> of Little Rock, Arkansas; \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\ta Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2021 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:26:32"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["24.3M"],"filesize_raw":["25480317"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-306799.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-306799.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom 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more important than the ring in a marriage engagement? Jackie and Stephana Bledsoe explain what they wish they hadn't learned the hard way.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2021-03-29.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Jackie and Stephana Bledsoe were not walking with Christ when they got married; they were already parents. After they were married, and they experienced turbulence, Stephana began to wonder if maybe she had gotten married outside of God\u2019s will.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> \u201cI didn\u2019t ask God. I didn\u2019t know that He said, \u2018This is supposed to be my husband\u2019; so what do I do now? Because now, you\u2019re telling me divorce is not an option.\u201d I just remember the counsel that I received at that time was that, if I made this commitment to Jackie in marriage, and even if it was out of order, God\u2019s grace was big enough to cover it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Monday, March 29<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I'm Bob Lepine. You can find us online at FamilyLifeToday.com. We\u2019ll hear from Jackie and Stephana Bledsoe today about marriage being a covenant\u2014how once we say, \u201cI do,\u201d\u2014God adds His \u201cAmen; so be it,\u201d and the covenant is sealed. Stay tuned. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. I\u2019ll do a quick poll here. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Uh-oh.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We\u2019ll see what you did and what you would recommend. Okay, the question is: \u201cShould a husband-to-be\/should he include his girlfriend in the search for a wedding ring or should he pick it out and surprise her?\u201d [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFirst, I want to know what you did. Did Ann see the ring you picked out for her before you picked it out for her?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It\u2019s been so long.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You don\u2019t remember?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019m going to guess. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Really?!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, my goodness!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> She did <em>not<\/em> see it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I didn\u2019t. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Oh, I was right! [Laughter] I honestly wasn\u2019t sure.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> <em>But<\/em> I did give him an idea\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014some hints.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014yes, \u201cThis is kind of what I like.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Like you were out at the mall and you just said\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think so, yes; and I pointed it out for him.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019ve got to be honest. She\u2019s been giving me hints again, after 40 years, like, \u201cCould we maybe update this?\u201d [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u201cThis is what the updated one would look like.\u201d [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMary Ann did <em>not<\/em> see the one that I picked out for her until I proposed\/until I offered it to her. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>And did she have <em>any<\/em> input? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I don\u2019t remember hearing from her what she had in mind. I think I picked it out all on my own, which could be\u2014we\u2019ll talk about this\u2014this could be a big fail for somebody.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019ve got some friends, who are joining us today, who are\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014who are experts in rings. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> They know something about rings. Jackie and Stephana Bledsoe are joining us on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Jackie, Stephana, welcome. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> Thank you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> Thank you; we\u2019re excited to be here.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> The Bledsoes speak with us at our <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> marriage getaways. They\u2019re from Indianapolis; they do ministry in the marriage space. They\u2019ve written a book called <em>The 7 Rings of Marriage<\/em>, which got me thinking about engagement rings. Did you pick out Stephana\u2019s engagement ring before you proposed? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> I did.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> She didn\u2019t see it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> She did <em>4<\/em> see it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> I did not.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Did you like it? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> I did like it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That\u2019s a good thing. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You still like it? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> Um.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Ohhh! [Laughter] Do you wish you would have had a say in it? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> I do, yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> If you were counselling a young groom-to-be today, would you say, \u201cBring her in,\u201d or would you say, \u201cSurprise her\u201d? What\u2019s your answer?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> I\u2019d say, \u201cLet her have input.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> She needs to have a\u2014but then how do you\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> The wedding ring is forever.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> But then you can\u2019t really do the <em>surprise<\/em> thing if she knows you\u2019re shopping for rings.<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana: <\/strong>If you\u2019re talking about marriage, and you\u2019re praying about marriage in advance, then I think you are kind of expecting a ring to come at some point. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Okay, that\u2019s a good point.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> So maybe you don\u2019t know <em>when<\/em> it\u2019s going to come but just get an idea of what she likes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> That seems to like ruin it though.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> It does. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> No!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Of course, I\u2019m not the woman getting the ring; but\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I\u2019m agreeing\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014I don\u2019t want\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014you\u2019re already <em>talking<\/em> about it. You\u2019re going to wear that ring for a lifetime; you\u2019d like to have a little input. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Can he get like a fake one and then, when she gets it, say, \u201cThis isn\u2019t the real one. You get to go with me, and we get to pick it out\u201d? No; it\u2019s sort of permanent?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> The whole idea of rings\u2014the book that you\u2019ve written called <em>The 7 Rings of Marriage<\/em>\u2014you take that picture of a ring and you say: \u201cThere are seasons\/there are episodes; we evolve in our relationship in marriage.\u201d But it all does start in that pre-marriage period; doesn\u2019t it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> Yes, it starts with the engagement ring. At that point, that\u2019s the excitement. You\u2019re just like, \u201cYes! She said, \u2018Yes.\u2019\u201d That was a big deal to me; because I wasn\u2019t sure that she was going to say, \u201cYes.\u201d When she said, \u201cYes,\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cYes, we\u2019re here.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut now, we have to go through\u2014it\u2019s like, \u201cOkay, what\u2019s next?\u201d\u2014the excitement is there. When the excitement wears off: \u201cWhat are we going to depend on?\u201d\u2014that\u2019s your foundation. That\u2019s where you kind of lean on that and you want to go, \u201cWe\u2019ve got to build something that is going to be able to build a tall and strong marriage that lasts forever.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I want to know this: \u201cWhat is your engaged story? How did you propose?\u2014was it like epic?\u2014was it this cool moment?\u201d [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> Was it epic, Babe? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> It was special, but it was not expected. We weren\u2019t preparing for it; we hadn\u2019t prayed about it. It was not what we would advise. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> Yes, our story is the opposite of what we teach couples now. We were not prepared, because our relationship was on rocky ground at the time. It was a point, where I was like, \u201cOkay, Lord, is this who You\u2019ve got for me for the rest of my life? If so, what do I do?\u201d I was like, \u201cOkay, I\u2019m going to get myself together.\u201d It was actually her birthday, 2001. I was like, \u201cOkay,\u201d\u2014this is not what you pray, fellas; this is not what you say\u2014I said, \u201cIf she says, \u2018Yes,\u2019 then, yes, that means God did set her aside for me. If she says, \u2018No,\u2019 then it wasn\u2019t it; so keep going\u201d; [Laughter] but no.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe details of the actual proposal: we were at her favorite restaurant at the time, which is no longer there. The whole time we\u2019re talking, I couldn\u2019t think. I\u2019m sitting here, nervous. It was almost, at that point, it was like, \u201cAm I going to do it, or am I not going to do it?\u201d I finally did it. I got down on one knee and I asked her. I don\u2019t think she could even hear what I said. I could hear the people, saying, \u201cIs this what I think it is?\u201d behind us. I was like, \u201cUh-oh, now we\u2019ve got an audience; so she <em>has<\/em> to say, \u201cYes.\u201d\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Oh, wow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> I ask her the question, and I\u2019ll let you share your side of that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> It was sweet; and I said, \u201cYes,\u201d obviously. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> How long had you guys been dating?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> Probably two or three years.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Wait; why didn\u2019t you expect it after two or three years?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> We were completely out of order, so we weren\u2019t exclusive to one another at the time. Jackie wasn\u2019t exclusive. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh! [Laughter] Well, this explains why\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> What\u2019s going on here, Jackie?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014you\u2019re saying, \u201cWe did it wrong; and now, we have a vision\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cof how to do it.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> There was no prayer; there was no counsel; there was no pre-marital counselling. It was just kind of me living a life; and God was like, \u201cThis is not where you\u2019re supposed to be going with your life.\u201d He just started making me more\/increasingly more uncomfortable with how we were living\u2014how I was living\u2014I can\u2019t put that on Stephana. Finally, I was like, \u201cOkay, Lord; this is what I want to do.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe actually had\/our daughter was ten months old at our wedding day, so we were <em>completely<\/em> out of order. We were that couple, sitting in the small group and hearing everybody share their marriage story: \u201cOh, I prayed for this,\u201d and \u201cI prayed for that,\u201d \u201cWe got pre-marital counseling.\u201d We were kind of like\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> \u201cDon\u2019t call on us.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> \u201cThat wasn\u2019t us; we didn\u2019t do it.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe felt shame\/we felt shame because of that. So now, we share it openly; because we know there\u2019s some other couples that didn\u2019t start the \u201cright way,\u201d which is we know is in order with what God says. We don\u2019t do those things before marriage, because we know what it brings <em>into<\/em> marriage when we do that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Okay, you\u2019ve got to back us all the way up; because I\u2019m doing the numbers in my head. So you guys met when you were teenagers?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Both:<\/strong> We did.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And started dating while you were teenagers?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> Yes, we met my senior year\/Stephana\u2019s sophomore year in high school\u2014small town\/40,000 people\u2014everybody knows everybody. For whatever reason, we didn\u2019t meet until my senior year. Our families\u2014literally, our grandmothers\/our maternal grandmothers\u2014were best friends. But God must have known what she would have seen in me, had she met me before then. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe were friends then\/kind of dated a little bit. I went away to college. The mutual friend that introduced us kept in contact with both of us, wanting to always let us know: \u201cHey, Jackie\u2019s back in town,\u201d or \u201cHey, did you know Stephana\u2019s here?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tEverybody else kind of saw something there; but I don\u2019t think, mentally or emotionally, I was ready. After graduating college, I moved to Indianapolis. She was one of the two people that I met or that I had known since I was in that new city. We kind of got re-introduced by the same mutual friend. That started a friendship\u2014probably the best way it should have started from the beginning\u2014that we didn\u2019t start when we were in high school. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> That\u2019s the quick summary of it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> But it sounds like you had some good input: you\u2019re listening to other couples, and they\u2019re talking about how to do it right; yet, you <em>didn\u2019t<\/em>. The question is: \u201cWhy?\u201d Was it: \u201cWe don\u2019t need that\u201d?\u2014\u201cWe don\u2019t believe that\u201d? Was there something going on that made you go, \u201cThat\u2019s good wisdom, but not for us.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie: <\/strong>Those couples we met <em>after<\/em> we were married. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Oh, okay.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> We didn\u2019t have those relationships before we were married. We didn\u2019t have the right environment around us at that time for a marriage the way we know God intended it to be. We say we got our pre-marital counselling at around our first anniversary, which makes no sense. [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut just through a class at our church that we took, and a couple\u2014we\u2019re kind of connected to them; they\u2019re attracted to us\u2014we really continued a conversation with them. That\u2019s where we met the other couples; and then, our circle started to change. God just started surrounding us with couples, who are living for him in their marriages. Then we found out it was like, \u201cOkay; this is how a marriage should be done.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Tell us about: \u201cHow did that come to be? Were you already involved in church? What was going on <em>spiritually<\/em> as you guys were engaged and then you were getting married?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> I think, after we had our daughter, it made me want to live life the right way. I started going to church; Jackie came with us to church. We just jumped into everything that we possibly could. Every class the church was offering, we were involved in it. We just started learning, and growing, and having mentors we didn\u2019t even know that we needed. That was kind of the beginning.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> Yes, we jumped in. Once we got exposure to it, and once God touched our heart, it was like, \u201cOkay, this is what we need to do.\u201d We were hungry for what He was teaching. We have a family that we don\u2019t know if it\u2019s going to last as a family, like it should be; so I wanted to change direction. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI just believe that God put on my heart that He was going to use me to change the direction of our family; and then also, not just us, but extended family and things like that. He\u2019s continued to do that. It started with us saying, \u201cYes,\u201d to Him then after we had continually just lived the way we wanted to.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> As you write in the book about the Engagement RING\u2014you know, the first ring\u2014\u201cWhat should happen? What is your vision?\u201d You call it the \u201cVision Phase\u201d; right?\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u2014it\u2019s where you start getting a vision for what marriage is. Talk to a pre-married couple and say, \u201cOkay, what should happen in that? What would be the best for a couple that\u2019s dating or going to get engaged?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Because most couples are living together before they get married; is that <em>best<\/em>?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> I definitely say it\u2019s not best. It makes it easy for you to have an escape when things don\u2019t go the way that you want. What Jackie and I realized, in that early phase, is that we were both selfish. We had lived our lives for ourselves in that it wasn\u2019t easy to come into marriage and sacrifice in different areas. We could have easily said, \u201cThis is not working. I don\u2019t like it this way, and I\u2019m out.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhereas, if you do it the right way, and you\u2019re living for the Lord, and your praying and seeking Him, then when you come together, it\u2019s not an easy out. It\u2019s a covenant that you\u2019ve made, not just with that other person, but with the Lord. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> Yes, the Engagement RING is really about creating that foundation; and that foundation is rooted in a relationship with Jesus Christ. We realized that after, at our first anniversary; so we wanted to make sure that everything that we did, at that point, was built on that foundation. It\u2019s like, \u201cHow would the Lord have us handle this? What do we need to do?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe sought out His Word in counsel; we sought out His Word in classes; we read His Word; we prayed. That set the foundation; because we were counselled, \u201cWe\u2019re going to come into disagreements\/we\u2019ll be at different spectrums; but at the end of the day, we\u2019re going to agree on one thing: \u2018Okay, we\u2019re going to do our best to try to find out how Christ would have us to handle this, and we\u2019re going to try to do that as best we can.\u2019\u201d Without that, I don\u2019t know what we would have done. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Let\u2019s say you meet Dave and I for the first time. We\u2019re engaged; we\u2019re living together. We have no date set to get married. We\u2019re like, \u201cIt\u2019s really hard, but we don\u2019t see the hurry. We don\u2019t see the rush.\u201d Counsel us, and we\u2019re just starting to grow in our relationship with Jesus. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> Yes; that\u2019s many couples, I think, today as marriage is continuing to not be as important as it used to be. I think I would start just asking questions and kind of get into their mind: \u201cWhy are they making these decisions?\u201d \u201cWhy are you choosing to live together now?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u201cOur parents divorced\u2014both of our parents\u2014seems really risky. Our whole future is at stake; why would we put that on the line?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> Yes, we\u2019d probably point them to the Scripture, and just start going into the Scripture. At that time, we\u2019d really want to know if you guys were a couple, who believed in Christ\/if you had a relationship with Him or not. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf not, then we\u2019d have to start there; because we can talk to them until we\u2019re blue in the face about all kinds of other things and \u201cHere\u2019s why you shouldn\u2019t do it\u201d; but if we don\u2019t get them rooted in the truth and get that relationship, then they can\u2019t really receive that in their heart.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Talk now\u2014that\u2019s ring number one, the Engagement RING\u2014Wedding RING: You call it the \u201cCommitment Phase.\u201d What\u2019s happening during this phase?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> It goes from just the butterflies to: \u201cWe\u2019re in a relationship that we\u2019re committed to be in for the long run.\u201d There\u2019s no more outs; there\u2019s no more options. It is a relationship that you are committed to, because you made this with your spouse and the Lord.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> Yes, we used to have a real estate investing company. Every month, I would look at probably hundreds of properties, either virtually or driving neighborhoods. We signed a lot of contracts to purchase properties, but we didn\u2019t purchase every single one of them. Because every single one of them had basically an out clause or basically a contingency clause\u2014where if something happened, or something about the house didn\u2019t line up, or maybe the numbers didn\u2019t line up, or we discover something new\u2014it\u2019s like, \u201cOh, this is no longer a great investment for us\u201d; we could be out.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s the opposite of what happens during this ring; because this is a covenant commitment, where no matter if Stephana meets the expectations that I set, which may be the right expectations or not, or whatever it may be\u2014and vice versa\u2014that we have created a relationship built on a covenant commitment between us and between Christ as well. That\u2019s what that commitment is. It\u2019s stronger than just a contract that you can sign and say, \u201cOh, we\u2019re out of it.\u201d \u201cWe are committing, in a covenant way\u2014where: \u201cNo matter what you do; no matter what I do, we\u2019re in this thing together and with God.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s what you mean by \u201cthe cornerstone,\u201d that Jesus is the cornerstone of your marriage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> How did that play out for you guys, early on? Did you struggle as you first got married? Did you hit a phase of a reality phase?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> Yes; I think in that first class that we were in, I remember questioning, as we were hearing everybody else\u2019s story: \u201cI didn\u2019t do that; I didn\u2019t ask God. I don\u2019t know that He said, \u2018This is supposed to be my husband\u2019; so what do I do now? Because now, you\u2019re telling me divorce is not an option.\u201d I just remember the counsel that I received at that time was that, if I made this commitment to Jackie in marriage, and even if it was out of order, God\u2019s grace was big enough to cover it. That was a turning point for us in the marriage, just realizing that God would take care of even our mess. He was big enough for that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You were thinking, \u201cI want out of here\u201d?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana: <\/strong>I was questioning whether I had made the right decision; I definitely was.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014based on what?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> Just hearing other people\u2019s story, and the way that it <em>should<\/em> have been done, and knowing that we hadn\u2019t done that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Were you <em>happy<\/em> in your marriage?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> It was hard; that first year was really hard. We were both\u2014Jackie\u2019s the youngest and I was an only child\u2014so we were both <em>very<\/em> selfish. We hadn\u2019t ever had to \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tconsider another person\u2019s wellbeing in a relationship, so that was tough. We were coming up against a lot of disagreements on how to be married.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> A couple could be listening, thinking, \u201cWell, we did it the right way; and we still feel the same thing.\u201d You know, like, \u201cWe try to do the right steps; and yet, we\u2019re in year one, <em>feeling<\/em> the same thing you felt.\u201d You\u2019re looking at it, like, \u201cWe did it backwards.\u201d [Others say] \u201cWe did it the right way; and we still we\u2019re like, \u2018I\u2019m done; this is so hard. This isn\u2019t going to work; I\u2019m out of here.\u2019\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I would add, too, I had a couple come up to us at the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> conference; and they said, \u201cWe got married in Vegas. We were so drunk, we had no idea what we were doing.\u201d They came to the conference, saying, \u201cI think that we\u2019re supposed to get out of this, because we didn\u2019t do it God\u2019s way.\u201d It\u2019s a little bit what you were sharing before, like, \u201cIs God in that?\u201d\u2014that\u2019s what they asked me\u2014\u201cWe weren\u2019t Christians at the time.\u201d How do you address that with people?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> Yes, that\u2019s where you have to lean on Him; that\u2019s where that foundation is so crucial. Just because you did it God\u2019s way, and you prayed and you sought counsel, does not keep you from going through challenges or troubles.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> We\u2019re told to expect fiery ordeals in His Word; He teaches that. We\u2019re going to go through some things, and that\u2019s where you\u2019ve got to have that to fall back on. You\u2019ve got to have your relationship with Him, that: \u201cGod promised this. God will not leave us or forsake us.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat was it for us; it was so rough and so rocky. Just really\u2014you know, you think\u2014two young kids coming together, who neither one of us had fully thought about marriage. We had a ten-month-old. We were trying to learn each other with some baggage in our history. We were also trying to figure out life on our own, and we\u2019re trying to raise a baby. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, all of a sudden, we\u2019re married. This stuff is just so much\/so any little conversation could spin off into something that would last days, weeks or whatever. A couple, who\u2019s brand new, or who has done everything what we\u2019re counselling and coaching couples to do now, can go through the same stuff. But we always had to revert back to His Word. We always had to revert back to prayer and just trust Him in that point. That doesn\u2019t make it any easier, but that\u2019s what we had to hold on; that\u2019s what we believed; that\u2019s what we were taught; and that\u2019s what we were coached at that stage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI guess you can say that we were blind enough to do it. But I\u2019m so glad that we were,\u00a0 because that allowed us\u2014God to get into our hearts to start working on us individually\u2014and not me praying about Stephana, \u201cI wish she would do this,\u201d or vice versa. But He worked on us; He began to work on us, and He kept us through whatever storms we went through. There were some storms we went through.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It\u2019s interesting, too, because you call this Wedding RING the \u201cCommitment Phase.\u201d It\u2019s easy to think, sometimes, you make a commitment; and you\u2019re done\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014like, \u201cOkay, I made it,\u201d\u2014but the Commitment Phase never ends. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> That ring\u2019s never coming off. It\u2019s like you have to almost up your commitment <em>daily<\/em>\/sometimes, <em>hourly<\/em>; because you get so hurt, or so frustrated, or so discouraged, mostly in your spouse; right? Because you\u2019re good, but your spouse\u2014[Laughter]\u2014no; I\u2019m kidding. But you do know it\u2019s like working out\u2014same thing\u2014it\u2019s like, I\u2019ve got to sort of re-up every time I walk into the gym; or actually, I\u2019ve got to re-up <em>to get to the gym<\/em>\/to say, \u201cI\u2019m going to do it again.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDoes that ever end? I mean, you\u2019ve been married many years now. The commitment isn\u2019t just the wedding ring\u2014it doesn\u2019t just happen on wedding day or, even, first six months or first year\u2014it never ends. How do you live that out?\u2014because there\u2019s going to be days coming\/there\u2019s a couple, listening right now, that says, \u201cI\u2019m done.\u201d How do you speak to them and say, \u201cDon\u2019t give up. Keep re-upping your commitment.\u201d What would you say?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> You\u2019re constantly continuing to grow closer to your spouse. I think it\u2019s \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDr. Chapman that says, \u201cMarriages either grow or they regress; they never stand still.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you\u2019re not practicing your oneness, and getting closer to each other in your marriage, then you\u2019re going the opposite way. It is a constant thing that you have to remind yourself. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s\u2014I forgot the quote\u2014somebody said, \u201cMotivation is like taking a bath. You can\u2019t just do it once; you\u2019ve got to do it every day.\u201d [Laughter] Continue to push yourself forward in connection, and try\/and striving for oneness. It is a never-ending thing for us; we understand that. \u201cCan I make the right decision today\u2014and something happened between us\u2014and then, next week, make the wrong decision?\u201d\u2014all the time. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut I have to get up, like you said\u2014in the morning, you don\u2019t feel like working out\u2014but now it\u2019s like, \u201cI\u2019ve got to get up today, and I\u2019ve got to go to the gym.\u201d \u201cI\u2019ve got to get up, and I\u2019ve got to show kindness,\u201d \u201cI\u2019ve got to show love to my wife.\u201d I\u2019ve got to do all these different things, because <em>it<\/em> <em>just doesn\u2019t come natural<\/em> for us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I\u2019m hearing two big ideas emerge from this conversation. One is: \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you\u2019re on the front-end of your relationship\u2014in the engagement or in the first year marriage\u2014your foundation really is important.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou\u2019re building a future on the foundation you are pouring today. So don\u2019t skimp; don\u2019t shift into neutral and just cruise. Be intentional; be purposeful; build a strong foundation. In the Engagement RING period, do the hard work of premarital preparation; get advice; get wisdom; learn; grow. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn that first year of marriage, where you hit those bumps and those hiccups\u2014and those do come along for all of us\u2014instead of just going, \u201cOh, I must have made a mistake,\u201d say, \u201cLet me figure out how we make this work; other couples have.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jackie:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> The second big idea I\u2019m hearing emerge out of this is:\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you\u2019re ten or fifteen\/twenty years in, and you go, \u201cWe didn\u2019t pour a good foundation. I mean, we messed up on that early phase.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOkay; call Perma Jack [Foundation Repair]\u2014[Laughter] \u2014I mean, get somebody out there; because your foundation can be fixed\/it can be repaired. It\u2019s not like, \u201cWell, we just need to blow this up and start all over again.\u201d No; you need to do the repair work. Get some counselling; get to a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup>. Do the work <em>today<\/em>. It may be hard work today, because you didn\u2019t pour the foundation well at the beginning; but do the work today, so that you can start building for a new future. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I don\u2019t even know if you\u2019re aware that you mentioned, several times, mentoring: \u201cour mentors\u201d\/\u201dour mentors.\u201d I think some people think they can do it alone; they have Jesus. But that mentoring is really important\u2014that you have people, ahead of you, that you can look up to that are speaking into you; that are continually observing and helping; and someone to go to\u2014we need that in the body of Christ. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> We\u2019re supposed to have that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Also, obviously, like Bob said, get to a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em>; pick up a book called <em>The 7 Rings of Marriage<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> There you go. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019m guessing you\u2019d say, \u201cRead it together\u2014not just alone\u2014together.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Stephana:<\/strong> Absolutely. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cAnd start working on the marriage.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And figure out: \u201cWhere are we?\u201d or \u201cWhere did we do it right? Where did we do it wrong? How can we move forward in health and in strength?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019re making your book available this week to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners, who can help support the ministry with a donation. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThanks to those of you, who partner with us to expand the reach of this program. You\u2019re helping us reach hundreds of thousands of people every day\u2014who are tuning into <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> on local radio stations, receiving this via podcast, using our mobile app so they can listen\u2014lots of different ways that people are connecting with <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. People are telling Alexa<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> to play <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> and listening to us that way. You make that possible when you support the ongoing work of this ministry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you can make a donation today, we\u2019d love to say, \u201cThank you,\u201d by sending you Jackie and Stephana Bledsoe\u2019s book, <em>The 7 Rings of Marriage: Your Model for a Lasting and Fulfilling Marriage<\/em>. The book is our thank-you gift to you when you donate to support <em>FamilyLife Today. <\/em>You can make that donation, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can call to donate: 1-800-FL-TODAY is our number. Again, the number is 1-800-358-6329; 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBy the way, we just wrapped up our first <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> in more than a year\u2014had the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> in Branson, Missouri\u2014we still have a handful of these events happening this spring. I\u2019m not giving you details; because these details are kind of changing as time goes\u2014depending on what is going on in different regions and hotel ballroom policies\u2014things like that. But you can go to our website, FamilyLife Today.com, and find out when you can join the Bledsoes, or the Wilsons, or any of us at these <em>Weekend to Remember <\/em>marriage getaways that we host in cities all around the country. Again, find out more about the spring schedule for <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaways. Our hope and prayer is that, come fall, we\u2019ll be back, going full strength, with the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em>; so stay connected. We\u2019ll keep you up to date with that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe hope you can join us, again, tomorrow as we\u2019re going to continue talking about the stages or phases that marriages go through with Jackie and Stephana Bledsoe. I hope you\u2019ll be back as well.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch. We got some extra help this week from Bruce Goff and, of course, our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> of Little Rock, Arkansas; \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\ta Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2021 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/306799","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=306799"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=306799"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=306799"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=306799"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=306799"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=306799"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=306799"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}