{"id":306775,"date":"2021-03-17T07:00:04","date_gmt":"2021-03-17T11:00:04","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/signs-of-toxicity\/"},"modified":"2021-03-17T07:00:04","modified_gmt":"2021-03-17T11:00:04","slug":"signs-of-toxicity","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/signs-of-toxicity\/","title":{"rendered":"Signs of Toxicity"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>All loving parents want healthy relationships for their children, but what do we do when we see red flags? Doyle Roth talks about how to know when someone is toxic and what to do about it.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2021-03-17.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:26:33","filesize":"24.32M","filesize_raw":"25496980","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2856,10380],"tags":[6806],"podcast_series":[8432],"cwp_profile":[8905],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-306775","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-adult-children","category-in-laws-and-others","tag-toxic-people","podcast_series-toxic-sons-and-daughters-in-law","cwp_profile-doyle-roth","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/306775\/signs-of-toxicity","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/306775\/signs-of-toxicity","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"8WppSBSZ9f\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/signs-of-toxicity\/\">Signs of Toxicity<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/signs-of-toxicity\/embed\/#?secret=8WppSBSZ9f\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Signs of Toxicity&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"8WppSBSZ9f\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2021-03-17.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2021-03-17.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Bob: <\/strong>If your son or daughter is married to someone who is, for whatever reason, a disruptor of family harmony, what do you do about that? Doyle Roth says you have to be very careful about potential confrontation of that issue.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Doyle:<\/strong> A toxic person doesn\u2019t want to be exposed; they want to keep it all private. They want to keep their spouse private, and they don\u2019t want her or him having friends. They don\u2019t want intrusion from any other person. They won\u2019t go to a counselor; they don\u2019t want to talk to anybody else. They want to have their lives private. Exposure of the toxic person scares them to death, because they know their behavior is really bad. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Wednesday, March 17<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I'm Bob Lepine. You can find us online at FamilyLifeToday.com. Navigating our way through disruptive, destabilizing, extended family relationships\u2014that can be really tricky\u2014we\u2019re going to give you some counsel on that today. Stay with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. One of the things I don\u2019t think I ever even stopped to think about, when Mary Ann and I were dating\/thinking about marriage\u2014even when we were engaged\u2014I don\u2019t know that it even came on my radar: \u201cHow do I feel about her family?\u201d You know I wasn\u2019t stopping about thinking, \u201cI\u2019m going to spend the rest of my life with her family.\u201d Because we don\u2019t spend, day in and day out; but when you marry somebody, you are going to spend the rest of your life with their family at some level; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019m wondering\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Right; you\u2019re saying \u201cI do,\u201d to their family.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019m wondering if Ann thought that about <em>my<\/em> family\u2014we\u2019ve never talked about that\u2014because I thought, \u201cI can\u2019t <em>wait<\/em> to be a part of that family.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Really?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Because her family was just\u2014first of all, they\u2019re married; they stay married, and I loved the joy. I loved her brothers and sister, and I was excited. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut thinking about what <em>you<\/em> were thinking\u2014about walking into <em>my<\/em> family. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> This is so terrible. We got married when I was 19, so I was young.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Doyle:<\/strong> That\u2019s me and Nancy; we were both 19.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I thought, \u201cI am going to save his family. [Laughter] I am going to bring them back together; I am going to bring them to Jesus.\u201d It didn\u2019t quite work that way. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> The other 19-year-old, who got married, in the room is Doyle Roth, who is joining us again on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Doyle, welcome back.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Doyle:<\/strong> Well, thank you. Thank you so much.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> He was 19 a few years ago\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014because today Doyle is a writer; he\u2019s a counselor. He\u2019s a rancher in Colorado; he is a father to four.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> He\u2019s a Renaissance man.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> He really is.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> We all want to be friends with him.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Doyle:<\/strong> \u2014rather old\/whatever. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Doyle has four adult kids; he has twelve grandchildren; he has six great-grandchildren. He spends several hours each week talking to husbands and wives and moms and dads, mostly about marriage- and family-related issues, doing counseling with these folks. He\u2019s written a book called <em>Toxic Sons- and Daughters-in-Law. <\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019ve been talking about how we handle this situation, as parents, when we see our kids in a relationship that we think: \u201cDanger, Will Robinson! Warning!\u201d\u2014[Laughter]\u2014you know, that kind of thing. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think we should pull back here and say some parents can attach a toxic label to something that is just a flawed human being. Your daughter is not marrying Jesus, so [whomever] she\u2019s marrying is going to have sin issues in his life. Your son is marrying somebody, who\u2019s going to have sin issues in her life. We\u2019ve got to be careful not to attach in our own minds: \u201cOh, well, they\u2019re toxic; because they have sin issues in their lives\u201d; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Doyle:<\/strong> Oh, exactly right. I have wonderful sons-in-law, daughters-in-law\u2014but we\u2019re all sinners\u2014so is mom and dad. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen we talk about toxic, we\u2019re talking about people with very, very serious deep emotional issues that come from addiction and can come from insecurities. It can come from a lot of different places that make them very, very difficult to deal with.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> As a parent, let\u2019s say your daughter or son is dating somebody; and the question would be: \u201cWhen do you know it\u2019s <em>toxic<\/em>?\u201d My daughter\u2014I\u2019m making this up; I don\u2019t have any daughters\u2014but my daughter is dating a guy, who says he struggles with pornography a little bit. Is there a point, where you\u2019re like: \u201cOh my goodness! This is not just a <em>little<\/em> problem with sexual temptation; this is <em>toxic<\/em>\u201d?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014or even drinking.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Doyle:<\/strong> I think a lot of the toxic behaviors gradually find themselves in the control and manipulation side. They come in very strongly, controlling their spouse\u2014whether it be a daughter or son\u2014and they control them\/cause them to be away from their families. They don\u2019t want intrusion from any other person: they won\u2019t go to a counselor; they don\u2019t want to talk to anybody else. They want to have their lives private; exposure of the toxic person scares them to death, because they know their behavior is really bad. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut you could have a son-in-law that\u2019s really open about things in his life. He really wants to grow, himself, spiritually. He\u2019s just one of us guys and gals that struggle. I mean, that\u2019s just the way it is. But a toxic person doesn\u2019t want to be exposed; they want to keep it all private. They want to keep their spouse private, and they don\u2019t want her or him having friends. There\u2019s a big difference.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; so if you see some humility and some transparency\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Doyle:<\/strong> Sure; yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014that doesn\u2019t mean they\u2019re toxic; that just means they\u2019re normal human beings.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Doyle:<\/strong> No, and they\u2019re growing in Christ. They\u2019re growing: they\u2019re reading their Bibles; they\u2019re really applying Scripture\u2014those are good signs\u2014but when a person is toxic, they are a long ways away from that emotionally.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Talk about that. When it\u2019s <em>toxic<\/em>\u2014you know, you look at the flag and it\u2019s:\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014or even dangerous.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cDanger,\u201d \u201cDanger,\u201d red\u2014it\u2019s: \u201cThis young man has a drinking problem.\u201d We can <em>see<\/em> it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014or an anger problem.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014or an anger problem.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Could be abusive.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014he\u2019s hit my daughter once or twice, but he doesn\u2019t often. You see that, and your daughter or son can\u2019t see it. What does a parent do when it\u2019s toxic\/toxic red?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Doyle: <\/strong>It\u2019s hard, Dave. These are hard times; these are hard decisions, because you don\u2019t want to go too fast too hard. It gets a parent in a very, very particular spot that\u2019s dangerous. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think the protective resources that I mention in my book are really important. You\u2019ve got to think in terms outside the box: \u201cWho can come into this?\u201d \u201cWho can protect me from hurting my relationship with my son or daughter or hindering me from seeing my grandchildren ever?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe only way that\u2019s going to happen is if I can stay out of this a little bit and use the protective resources: have a good mentor, have a good coach, have a good person in your life that you can refer them to\/a good counselor. It may even come to a point, where you can refer them to an attorney, if there has to be legal things. There\u2019s other people that can step in here. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat can happen is that it may not ever end in divorce; it\u2019s just going to keep going like this. If you want to see your grandkids, and if you want to have a relationship with your son, you better be very careful and bring other people into the loop that can speak truth to them and speak about their lives; or we\u2019re going to be in serious troubles.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You\u2019re saying: \u201cLet somebody else be the bad guy.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Doyle:<\/strong> Somebody else needs to be the bad guy and bring the bad information. I think that\u2019s where we get\u2014it\u2019s dangerous for us to say those things\u2014because, like we said before, they\u2019re <em>never<\/em> going to forget what we say.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And if your child isn\u2019t open to hearing that, or getting any kind of help, or mentoring or counseling, then what?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Doyle:<\/strong> Well, listen to this: \u201cYou are good parents, Dave and Ann. You are trying to be good parents. We have trained our kids. We\u2019ve helped them make decisions. In some respects, you\u2019ve got to trust your parenting.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And we have a good relationship with them.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Doyle:<\/strong> You\u2019ve got to be able to set\u2014yes; \u201cWe have a good relationship,\u201d\u2014you\u2019ve got to be able to trust their maturity and trust their insight. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAsking the questions: \u201cHow?\u201d \u201cWhen?\u201d \u201cWhy?\u201d \u201cWhere?\u201d are an easy way for us to deflect our opinions; we can ask them to really dig deep into their own souls. We\u2019ve taught them; we\u2019ve trained them. Rely on that and rely on God to help them.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> There are principles of conflict resolution that we talk about at the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> marriage getaway for married couples, where we say, \u201cIf you\u2019re going to have to have a hard conversation with your spouse about an area of conflict, you need to think about: \u2018What\u2019s the best time to say it?\u2019 \u2018How do I want to make sure I say it?\u2019\u201d Maybe you write down what you want to say; maybe you need to give them some time to process rather than just dumping on them and expecting a response right away. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf we need to, as parents, have a hard conversation with our kids, we need to follow some of those same guidelines; don\u2019t you think?\u2014where we need to pre-think: \u201cWhat is it I want to say?\u201d \u201cWhen\u2019s the right time to say it?\u201d \u201cLet\u2019s make sure I choose my words very carefully,\u201d\u2014so that, if you do need to say\u2014\u201cSweetheart, I\u2019ve seen some things that are troubling to me; because I\u2019m concerned about you. I\u2019m concerned about your relationship. You know we love you; we care about you and would do anything for you. Here are the things I\u2019m seeing...I want you to just hear this and process it. Maybe we can talk about it later,\u201d\u2014I think there are ways to have those conversations appropriately. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut the point you\u2019re making, Doyle, in all of this is, if we sabotage the relational foundation and blow up that bridge, then we\u2019ve got no access left at that point.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Doyle:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We <em>have<\/em> to make sure we\u2019re doing everything we can to preserve that relationship so we can continue to interact and try to bring help and healing here.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Doyle:<\/strong> Right; you can say what you just said, Bob, in a very kind and loving way. And you can close that statement by saying, \u201cWhat do you think?\u201d That changes the whole thing of me asserting on you versus asking you what you think\/drawing them out. I think it\u2019s a lot safer.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> One of the things I didn\u2019t realize until later\u2014my best friend was my sister\u2014when she was engaged, it was a very tumultuous relationship. My parents could see this. We talked about it, as siblings, to my sister. My sister told me this later: that right before the wedding, my mom went to my sister; and she said, \u201cHoney, it feels like you\u2019re having second thoughts. I see that you\u2019re anxious; and I just want you to know that, if you feel like you need to step out of this because it could put you in a situation that\u2019s not healthy, we will back you. It doesn\u2019t matter about the guests; it doesn\u2019t matter about the money we\u2019ve spent. It doesn\u2019t matter about any of the gifts you\u2019ve received. We will back you, and we will help you with whatever you decide to do.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Doyle:<\/strong> Did she get married?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> She did.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Doyle:<\/strong> Does she have a good relationship with her mom?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014a wonderful relationship.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Doyle:<\/strong> That\u2019s the answer to the way she approached it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It was truth in love.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Doyle:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> The truth was there. As we\u2019ve said so often, I think it\u2019s so hard to be that parent, especially when you see your son or daughter is in <em>danger<\/em> because of the toxic relationship. That\u2019s when you want to give grace; you want to ask the question: \u201cSo what do you think?\u201d When they answer it wrongly\u2014[Laughter]\u2014you know, like, \u201cI think he\u2019s fine; I think it\u2019s okay. I\u2019m not in danger,\u201d\u2014it\u2019s <em>so<\/em> hard; isn\u2019t it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Doyle:<\/strong> Oh, it is.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Because you can\u2019t control it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You tell one story in the book about a son whose wife was physically abusive toward him: \u201cOur son is being kicked and\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cbattered.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cbattered by his wife, and she has threatened to kill him.\u201d Is there a time when parents step in and say, \u201cThis is not going to happen with our kid,\u201d\u2014and they don\u2019t be gentle, and keep their mouth shut, and pray\u2014they go in and say, \u201cAlright; we\u2019re here to save the life of our child.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Doyle:<\/strong> Bob, I just don\u2019t think they can save the life of their child. They can make their opinion known; this is a very dangerous thing to this young man. \u201cIs there a time for you, on your timeline, that this is: \u2018We need to get some help,\u2019 \u2018What do you do about this?\u2019\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, that particular couple is still together; and they\u2019re thriving; they\u2019re doing well. But initially, this was a very dangerous place for this family to be; and they couldn\u2019t see the grandchildren. The parents\u2019 patience\u2014and he would call me, and they were so angry and upset about the danger that their son was facing\u2014they now have a continuing relationship with their son. Their daughter-in-law and them get along; they\u2019re able to see the grandchildren. It\u2019s all worked out, but time is on your side. I think there\u2019s a place for us to be concerned, but we\u2019ve got to be careful.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Let me ask you about that grandchildren-grandparent issue because, in the last political cycle, I was talking to moms and dads, who were saying, \u201cOur kids are saying, \u2018You can\u2019t see your grandkids anymore, because who you are supporting for President.\u2019\u201d If the situation is such that\u2014whether it\u2019s politics or there\u2019s any other wedge issue that causes the kids to say, \u201cIf that\u2019s what you believe\/if that\u2019s what your church believes, we\u2019re cutting off the relationship completely,\u201d\u2014do parents just have to say, \u201cWell, I guess that\u2019s what we\u2019re stuck with?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Doyle:<\/strong> I\u2019ve got one family very close to me, that I love dearly, and they\u2019ve been not seeing their grandchildren for, probably at this point, 15 years. They cut them over religious reasons. This particular person was an extremist\/had extreme legalistic convictions; and because the parents were not that way, they have not seen their children for 15 years. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think, most generally, those things heal themselves if the parents are careful; because the kids are going to want babysitting\/they do want them to come by. There\u2019s things that happen naturally, away from the argument and away from the fighting, that goes on sometimes. Those things will often heal themselves, but they don\u2019t always do that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And those grandkids, when they turn 15 or 20, may be thinking, \u201cI want to meet my grandparents.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Doyle:<\/strong> Well, and that can happen; yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019m also thinking of the grandkids, who are in danger. It\u2019s one thing if I feel like my daughter or my son is in danger\u2014maybe physically because maybe their spouse is abusive\u2014but now, I\u2019ve got grandkids [who] are two and three years old. As a grandparent, I\u2019m like, \u201cI want to go in there just to get <em>them<\/em> safe.\u201d What do we do?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes, Doyle; I am like going to knock down the door and save my grandkids. Like everything in me is: \u201cI\u2019m going to rescue them.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I didn\u2019t mean to get her stirred up. [Laughter] I guess I did.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> But I think most, especially moms and dads, that protective element of grandkids. Our kids are adults, but these grandkids are innocent. Even though they\u2019re not our children, what do we do with <em>that<\/em>?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Doyle:<\/strong> I just think you have to trust your kids. You\u2019ve raised them to be responsible; you\u2019ve raised them to be good kids.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> But what if our kids are just dumb kids? Come on!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Doyle:<\/strong> Then there\u2019s going to be other people that come in the loop. Social services are going to come in the loop. Other people\/neighbors are going to pick up on this. There\u2019s a lot of people that can pick up on it and, I think, asking those right questions.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019ve heard you say several times in our conversation: \u201cHow big is your God?\u201d And in many ways, it comes back to there is a God that knows, and sees, and is huge, and He\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014He sees the small.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014He\u2019s intimately involved in the small details of our life, and He can be trusted.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Doyle:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It\u2019s hard times, at times, but it\u2019s true.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You, in the end of your book, you talk about safe people and unsafe people\u2014borrowing from the work of Cloud and Townsend, who wrote the book on safe people\u2014but you say that unsafe people are people, who think they have it all together rather than admitting to their weaknesses. If you see a son-in-law or a daughter-in-law, either before or after marriage, and they\u2019re like, \u201cYes; I got this,\u201d\u2014there\u2019s an arrogance\/a pride there\u2014there should be a flag go up.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Doyle:<\/strong> There\u2019s a flag that goes up; yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You say unsafe people are religious instead of spiritual. Explain what you mean by that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Doyle:<\/strong> They might go to church faithfully, and they may go to men\u2019s meetings; but they\u2019re not spiritually inclined. They\u2019re not really in a relationship with Christ that\u2019s life- changing\/character building; and that\u2019s a big difference, Bob.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; we should point out\u2014you talked about this earlier, Dave and Ann\u2014you talked about the fact that, when you started dating, you were a new Christian. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf my daughter\u2019s dating a new Christian, I want that new Christian to have a little bit of a track record before that relationship goes too far; because sometimes, that new Christian is somebody, who\u2019s there for a couple of months, and then not around anymore. You do want to have some time to see: \u201cIs this really proving itself out in behavior?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Doyle:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You say that an unsafe person is somebody, who\u2019s defensive, instead of open to feedback. We\u2019re back to humility as a fundamental current.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Doyle:<\/strong> That\u2019s right; that\u2019s right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Unsafe people are self-righteous instead of humble; they only apologize instead of changing their behavior.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Doyle:<\/strong> Yes; apology is a quick solution to everything. It\u2019s: \u201cAll I have to do is apologize; and hopefully, you\u2019ll forgive; and that\u2019s it\u201d; but go right back into it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And as we often say at the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaway, an apology will not include the words: \u201cif\u201d or \u201cbut.\u201d You don\u2019t say: \u201cI\u2019m sorry <em>if<\/em>\u2026\u201d and you don\u2019t say \u201cI\u2019m sorry <em>but<\/em>\u2026\u201d You just negated the \u201cI\u2019m sorry\u201d part when you say either of those words.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Doyle:<\/strong> Right; and oftentimes, you don\u2019t even explain the depth of what you\u2019re actually apologizing for\u2014the hurt that you\u2019ve caused\/the depth of what you\u2019ve done\u2014they don\u2019t apologize for the <em>whole<\/em> thing. They want to just say, \u201cI\u2019m sorry I said that\u201d; and go on. But they don\u2019t realize what that does to the person they said it to\/the child they said it to, or whatever.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You say that unsafe people avoid working on their problems instead of dealing with them. What\u2019s the difference between working on your problem and dealing with it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Doyle:<\/strong> One\u2019s recognizing it. Working on it means I\u2019m investing in it; I\u2019m really investing in change. I\u2019m really trying to make the adjustments that I need to: I\u2019m changing my habits; I\u2019m changing the direction I drive to work; I\u2019m really working on it, day in and day out.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I read that; and I thought, \u201cThere was a point, where I was recognizing in my own life, how self-focused I was about things and how much everything I needed to have the spotlight on me.\u201d I would tell people for a while, \u201cYes; I\u2019ve recognized this about myself, and I\u2019m working on it.\u201d I learned that those people respected me more if I said that, so I just kept saying that. I wasn\u2019t really working on anything; I was just saying\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> The spotlight was on you so\u2014yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That\u2019s right; it became a new\u2014so there\u2019s a difference between godly sorrow and worldly sorrow; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Doyle:<\/strong> Right; yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> In Psalm 51, David prays for a contrite heart. I remember studying years ago, \u201cWhat\u2019s a contrite heart compared to a trite heart?\u201d Here\u2019s how I ended up: a trite heart is: \u201cI\u2019m sorry I got caught\u201d; a contrite heart is: \u201cI\u2019m sorry I did it,\u201d\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Doyle:<\/strong> That\u2019s good, Dave; that\u2019s good.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014it\u2019s true repentance. You want to see that, obviously, in your sons and daughters and who they\u2019re dating. You\u2019re never going to see that perfectly; but man, when you see true humility, which says, \u201cI am broken that I did this,\u201d\u2014godly sorrow\u2014that leads to working on it and saying \u201cGod, You\u2019ve got to change me.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think for listeners, that have kids in their home, we teach our kids these things when they\u2019re under our roof: of who to marry\/of what to look for in a spouse. I know that when our kids were little, and when our kids are below 12, they\u2019re sponges; they\u2019re soaking up everything that we\u2019re saying. I remember saying, \u201cWhat kind of girl are you going to marry?\u201d I\u2019d kind of train them, like, \u201cI\u2019m going to marry, not just a Christian, a woman who loves Jesus.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Doyle:<\/strong> Yes!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You know, I\u2019m teaching them that. And the \u201cWhys?\u201d when they get older: \u201cWhy is that important?\u201d \u201cWhat does that look like?\u201d To have those conversations, at bedtime\/around the dinner table: \u201cWhat is marriage?\u201d and \u201cWhy does it matter who I marry?\u201d \u201cWhat am I looking for in a marriage?\u201d and legacy. These are <em>great<\/em> conversations to have, and kids want to hear. They want to have instruction of what to be looking for, of who to be looking for, and character qualities of people that are following Jesus.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And by the way, I\u2019m sitting beside Ann, thinking, \u201cI watched her do this for 20-some years. She was a genius at this.\u201d I\u2019d just sit at the dinner table, like, \u201cGo girl.\u201d The boys would soak it up, and they married three incredible women. Again, I\u2019m thankful to God for that\u2014and you can\u2019t really control that\u2014but they\/I mean, Ann really trained them; and that\u2019s our job as parents: \u201cLet\u2019s step up.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I\u2019ll say: you know, what Dave did\u2014which I would encourage everyone and anyone to do\u2014that he would take Fridays\/every Friday morning, he would fast until dinner time\u2014and you started doing that when, Dave?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> When CJ was born, so 34 years.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Doyle:<\/strong> Wow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And he would be praying for their spouses, and it\u2019s <em>never<\/em> too late to start that. I have a couple of women that I have fasted with and prayed for on Wednesday\u2014that we\u2019re praying for our kids, their spouses, our grandkids\u2014that is a <em>great<\/em> principle to put into practice.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And when you sit\u2014or in my situation, got to stand and be the pastor and the father of these three weddings\u2014and you look at your future daughter-in-law. She doesn\u2019t know this; but you know it: \u201cI prayed for you before you were born. I\u2019ve been praying for you, without knowing your name, your entire life; and now, is an answer to a prayer that my son would marry a godly woman.\u201d Again, we\u2019re not sitting here, saying, \u201cWe have perfect families,\u201d\/\u201dWe\u2019re perfect,\u201d\u2014but they\u2019re amazing women\u2014and God is <em>big<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Doyle:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> He can be trusted.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And you, Doyle, have given us encouragement, and hope, and counsel. This subject, I know, is heart-wrenching for so many of our listeners. Thank you for taking time to share; thanks for the book.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; \u201cGet the book!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Absolutely; thanks for being here.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Doyle:<\/strong> Thank you for having me. I appreciate the work of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>; appreciate you guys\/love you guys. Thanks for laying the foundation: Bob, you, for many years, have been here; Dave, you and Ann, stepping up to the helm. We just praise God for you; keep it going.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Thank you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Thank you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We are, of course, making your book available this week to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners who are supporting the ongoing work of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>\/those listeners who can help advance the mission of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Doyle\u2019s book is our thank-you gift to you. It\u2019s called <a id=\"_Hlk65762217\"><em>Toxic Sons- and Daughters-in-Law<\/em><\/a><em>: Untangling Difficult Relationships<\/em>. You can purchase a copy on our website at FamilyLifeToday.com; or we\u2019ll send you a copy as a thank-you gift when you support <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> with a donation of any amount. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYour donations extend the reach of this ministry and help us connect with more people, more regularly, to effectively develop godly marriages and families. That\u2019s our goal; that\u2019s what you\u2019re investing in when you invest in the work of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, and we\u2019re grateful for that. You can donate, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY to make a donation by phone. And again, be sure to ask for Doyle Roth\u2019s book, <em>Toxic Sons- and Daughters-in-Law<\/em>, when you donate.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, David Robbins, the president of FamilyLife, is here with us today. David\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> You know, I want to take a moment and talk about one of our newest resources at FamilyLife that you probably have heard us talk about. We\u2019re starting to <em>hear<\/em> from people, who are doing the <em>Dates to Remember<\/em> box. It\u2019s really an experience: three different moments that you can have with your spouse to really develop closer connection\u2014not just spend time together on a date\u2014but really have intentional conversation that\u2019s also really fun. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019ve just got this email that shared the impact that the <em>Dates to Remember<\/em> experience had on this couple. The husband said: \u201cIt gave us a Christ-centered way to focus on one another on a date night rather than just focusing on a movie or an event, where we may end the conversation in the evening with very little connection actually happening. It really provided a way for us to connect deeply.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI just want to encourage you: \u201cIf you are continuing to look for creative ways to have connection with your spouse, the <em>Dates to Remember<\/em> box has been designed for you. I hope you\u2019ll check it out.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And of course, there\u2019s a link on our website at FamilyLifeToday.com with more information about <em>Dates to Remember<\/em>. Thank you, David; thanks for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow, we\u2019re going to talk about just how critical it is for all of us to be living our lives with an extended community around us. Sharon Hersh joins us to talk about the power of belonging to one another. I hope you can tune in for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch. We got some help from Bruce Goff and our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back tomorrow for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2021 FamilyLife. 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loving parents want healthy relationships for their children, but what do we do when we see red flags? Doyle Roth talks about how to know when someone is toxic and what to do about it.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2021-03-17.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>If your son or daughter is married to someone who is, for whatever reason, a disruptor of family harmony, what do you do about that? Doyle Roth says you have to be very careful about potential confrontation of that issue.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Doyle:<\/strong> A toxic person doesn\u2019t want to be exposed; they want to keep it all private. They want to keep their spouse private, and they don\u2019t want her or him having friends. They don\u2019t want intrusion from any other person. They won\u2019t go to a counselor; they don\u2019t want to talk to anybody else. They want to have their lives private. Exposure of the toxic person scares them to death, because they know their behavior is really bad. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Wednesday, March 17<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I'm Bob Lepine. You can find us online at FamilyLifeToday.com. Navigating our way through disruptive, destabilizing, extended family relationships\u2014that can be really tricky\u2014we\u2019re going to give you some counsel on that today. Stay with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. One of the things I don\u2019t think I ever even stopped to think about, when Mary Ann and I were dating\/thinking about marriage\u2014even when we were engaged\u2014I don\u2019t know that it even came on my radar: \u201cHow do I feel about her family?\u201d You know I wasn\u2019t stopping about thinking, \u201cI\u2019m going to spend the rest of my life with her family.\u201d Because we don\u2019t spend, day in and day out; but when you marry somebody, you are going to spend the rest of your life with their family at some level; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019m wondering\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Right; you\u2019re saying \u201cI do,\u201d to their family.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019m wondering if Ann thought that about <em>my<\/em> family\u2014we\u2019ve never talked about that\u2014because I thought, \u201cI can\u2019t <em>wait<\/em> to be a part of that family.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Really?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Because her family was just\u2014first of all, they\u2019re married; they stay married, and I loved the joy. I loved her brothers and sister, and I was excited. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut thinking about what <em>you<\/em> were thinking\u2014about walking into <em>my<\/em> family. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> This is so terrible. We got married when I was 19, so I was young.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Doyle:<\/strong> That\u2019s me and Nancy; we were both 19.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I thought, \u201cI am going to save his family. [Laughter] I am going to bring them back together; I am going to bring them to Jesus.\u201d It didn\u2019t quite work that way. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> The other 19-year-old, who got married, in the room is Doyle Roth, who is joining us again on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Doyle, welcome back.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Doyle:<\/strong> Well, thank you. Thank you so much.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> He was 19 a few years ago\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014because today Doyle is a writer; he\u2019s a counselor. He\u2019s a rancher in Colorado; he is a father to four.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> He\u2019s a Renaissance man.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> He really is.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> We all want to be friends with him.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Doyle:<\/strong> \u2014rather old\/whatever. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Doyle has four adult kids; he has twelve grandchildren; he has six great-grandchildren. He spends several hours each week talking to husbands and wives and moms and dads, mostly about marriage- and family-related issues, doing counseling with these folks. He\u2019s written a book called <em>Toxic Sons- and Daughters-in-Law. <\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019ve been talking about how we handle this situation, as parents, when we see our kids in a relationship that we think: \u201cDanger, Will Robinson! Warning!\u201d\u2014[Laughter]\u2014you know, that kind of thing. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think we should pull back here and say some parents can attach a toxic label to something that is just a flawed human being. Your daughter is not marrying Jesus, so [whomever] she\u2019s marrying is going to have sin issues in his life. Your son is marrying somebody, who\u2019s going to have sin issues in her life. We\u2019ve got to be careful not to attach in our own minds: \u201cOh, well, they\u2019re toxic; because they have sin issues in their lives\u201d; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Doyle:<\/strong> Oh, exactly right. I have wonderful sons-in-law, daughters-in-law\u2014but we\u2019re all sinners\u2014so is mom and dad. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen we talk about toxic, we\u2019re talking about people with very, very serious deep emotional issues that come from addiction and can come from insecurities. It can come from a lot of different places that make them very, very difficult to deal with.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> As a parent, let\u2019s say your daughter or son is dating somebody; and the question would be: \u201cWhen do you know it\u2019s <em>toxic<\/em>?\u201d My daughter\u2014I\u2019m making this up; I don\u2019t have any daughters\u2014but my daughter is dating a guy, who says he struggles with pornography a little bit. Is there a point, where you\u2019re like: \u201cOh my goodness! This is not just a <em>little<\/em> problem with sexual temptation; this is <em>toxic<\/em>\u201d?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014or even drinking.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Doyle:<\/strong> I think a lot of the toxic behaviors gradually find themselves in the control and manipulation side. They come in very strongly, controlling their spouse\u2014whether it be a daughter or son\u2014and they control them\/cause them to be away from their families. They don\u2019t want intrusion from any other person: they won\u2019t go to a counselor; they don\u2019t want to talk to anybody else. They want to have their lives private; exposure of the toxic person scares them to death, because they know their behavior is really bad. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut you could have a son-in-law that\u2019s really open about things in his life. He really wants to grow, himself, spiritually. He\u2019s just one of us guys and gals that struggle. I mean, that\u2019s just the way it is. But a toxic person doesn\u2019t want to be exposed; they want to keep it all private. They want to keep their spouse private, and they don\u2019t want her or him having friends. There\u2019s a big difference.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; so if you see some humility and some transparency\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Doyle:<\/strong> Sure; yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014that doesn\u2019t mean they\u2019re toxic; that just means they\u2019re normal human beings.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Doyle:<\/strong> No, and they\u2019re growing in Christ. They\u2019re growing: they\u2019re reading their Bibles; they\u2019re really applying Scripture\u2014those are good signs\u2014but when a person is toxic, they are a long ways away from that emotionally.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Talk about that. When it\u2019s <em>toxic<\/em>\u2014you know, you look at the flag and it\u2019s:\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014or even dangerous.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cDanger,\u201d \u201cDanger,\u201d red\u2014it\u2019s: \u201cThis young man has a drinking problem.\u201d We can <em>see<\/em> it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014or an anger problem.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014or an anger problem.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Could be abusive.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014he\u2019s hit my daughter once or twice, but he doesn\u2019t often. You see that, and your daughter or son can\u2019t see it. What does a parent do when it\u2019s toxic\/toxic red?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Doyle: <\/strong>It\u2019s hard, Dave. These are hard times; these are hard decisions, because you don\u2019t want to go too fast too hard. It gets a parent in a very, very particular spot that\u2019s dangerous. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think the protective resources that I mention in my book are really important. You\u2019ve got to think in terms outside the box: \u201cWho can come into this?\u201d \u201cWho can protect me from hurting my relationship with my son or daughter or hindering me from seeing my grandchildren ever?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe only way that\u2019s going to happen is if I can stay out of this a little bit and use the protective resources: have a good mentor, have a good coach, have a good person in your life that you can refer them to\/a good counselor. It may even come to a point, where you can refer them to an attorney, if there has to be legal things. There\u2019s other people that can step in here. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat can happen is that it may not ever end in divorce; it\u2019s just going to keep going like this. If you want to see your grandkids, and if you want to have a relationship with your son, you better be very careful and bring other people into the loop that can speak truth to them and speak about their lives; or we\u2019re going to be in serious troubles.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You\u2019re saying: \u201cLet somebody else be the bad guy.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Doyle:<\/strong> Somebody else needs to be the bad guy and bring the bad information. I think that\u2019s where we get\u2014it\u2019s dangerous for us to say those things\u2014because, like we said before, they\u2019re <em>never<\/em> going to forget what we say.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And if your child isn\u2019t open to hearing that, or getting any kind of help, or mentoring or counseling, then what?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Doyle:<\/strong> Well, listen to this: \u201cYou are good parents, Dave and Ann. You are trying to be good parents. We have trained our kids. We\u2019ve helped them make decisions. In some respects, you\u2019ve got to trust your parenting.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And we have a good relationship with them.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Doyle:<\/strong> You\u2019ve got to be able to set\u2014yes; \u201cWe have a good relationship,\u201d\u2014you\u2019ve got to be able to trust their maturity and trust their insight. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAsking the questions: \u201cHow?\u201d \u201cWhen?\u201d \u201cWhy?\u201d \u201cWhere?\u201d are an easy way for us to deflect our opinions; we can ask them to really dig deep into their own souls. We\u2019ve taught them; we\u2019ve trained them. Rely on that and rely on God to help them.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> There are principles of conflict resolution that we talk about at the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> marriage getaway for married couples, where we say, \u201cIf you\u2019re going to have to have a hard conversation with your spouse about an area of conflict, you need to think about: \u2018What\u2019s the best time to say it?\u2019 \u2018How do I want to make sure I say it?\u2019\u201d Maybe you write down what you want to say; maybe you need to give them some time to process rather than just dumping on them and expecting a response right away. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf we need to, as parents, have a hard conversation with our kids, we need to follow some of those same guidelines; don\u2019t you think?\u2014where we need to pre-think: \u201cWhat is it I want to say?\u201d \u201cWhen\u2019s the right time to say it?\u201d \u201cLet\u2019s make sure I choose my words very carefully,\u201d\u2014so that, if you do need to say\u2014\u201cSweetheart, I\u2019ve seen some things that are troubling to me; because I\u2019m concerned about you. I\u2019m concerned about your relationship. You know we love you; we care about you and would do anything for you. Here are the things I\u2019m seeing...I want you to just hear this and process it. Maybe we can talk about it later,\u201d\u2014I think there are ways to have those conversations appropriately. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut the point you\u2019re making, Doyle, in all of this is, if we sabotage the relational foundation and blow up that bridge, then we\u2019ve got no access left at that point.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Doyle:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We <em>have<\/em> to make sure we\u2019re doing everything we can to preserve that relationship so we can continue to interact and try to bring help and healing here.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Doyle:<\/strong> Right; you can say what you just said, Bob, in a very kind and loving way. And you can close that statement by saying, \u201cWhat do you think?\u201d That changes the whole thing of me asserting on you versus asking you what you think\/drawing them out. I think it\u2019s a lot safer.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> One of the things I didn\u2019t realize until later\u2014my best friend was my sister\u2014when she was engaged, it was a very tumultuous relationship. My parents could see this. We talked about it, as siblings, to my sister. My sister told me this later: that right before the wedding, my mom went to my sister; and she said, \u201cHoney, it feels like you\u2019re having second thoughts. I see that you\u2019re anxious; and I just want you to know that, if you feel like you need to step out of this because it could put you in a situation that\u2019s not healthy, we will back you. It doesn\u2019t matter about the guests; it doesn\u2019t matter about the money we\u2019ve spent. It doesn\u2019t matter about any of the gifts you\u2019ve received. We will back you, and we will help you with whatever you decide to do.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Doyle:<\/strong> Did she get married?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> She did.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Doyle:<\/strong> Does she have a good relationship with her mom?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014a wonderful relationship.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Doyle:<\/strong> That\u2019s the answer to the way she approached it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It was truth in love.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Doyle:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> The truth was there. As we\u2019ve said so often, I think it\u2019s so hard to be that parent, especially when you see your son or daughter is in <em>danger<\/em> because of the toxic relationship. That\u2019s when you want to give grace; you want to ask the question: \u201cSo what do you think?\u201d When they answer it wrongly\u2014[Laughter]\u2014you know, like, \u201cI think he\u2019s fine; I think it\u2019s okay. I\u2019m not in danger,\u201d\u2014it\u2019s <em>so<\/em> hard; isn\u2019t it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Doyle:<\/strong> Oh, it is.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Because you can\u2019t control it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You tell one story in the book about a son whose wife was physically abusive toward him: \u201cOur son is being kicked and\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cbattered.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cbattered by his wife, and she has threatened to kill him.\u201d Is there a time when parents step in and say, \u201cThis is not going to happen with our kid,\u201d\u2014and they don\u2019t be gentle, and keep their mouth shut, and pray\u2014they go in and say, \u201cAlright; we\u2019re here to save the life of our child.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Doyle:<\/strong> Bob, I just don\u2019t think they can save the life of their child. They can make their opinion known; this is a very dangerous thing to this young man. \u201cIs there a time for you, on your timeline, that this is: \u2018We need to get some help,\u2019 \u2018What do you do about this?\u2019\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, that particular couple is still together; and they\u2019re thriving; they\u2019re doing well. But initially, this was a very dangerous place for this family to be; and they couldn\u2019t see the grandchildren. The parents\u2019 patience\u2014and he would call me, and they were so angry and upset about the danger that their son was facing\u2014they now have a continuing relationship with their son. Their daughter-in-law and them get along; they\u2019re able to see the grandchildren. It\u2019s all worked out, but time is on your side. I think there\u2019s a place for us to be concerned, but we\u2019ve got to be careful.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Let me ask you about that grandchildren-grandparent issue because, in the last political cycle, I was talking to moms and dads, who were saying, \u201cOur kids are saying, \u2018You can\u2019t see your grandkids anymore, because who you are supporting for President.\u2019\u201d If the situation is such that\u2014whether it\u2019s politics or there\u2019s any other wedge issue that causes the kids to say, \u201cIf that\u2019s what you believe\/if that\u2019s what your church believes, we\u2019re cutting off the relationship completely,\u201d\u2014do parents just have to say, \u201cWell, I guess that\u2019s what we\u2019re stuck with?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Doyle:<\/strong> I\u2019ve got one family very close to me, that I love dearly, and they\u2019ve been not seeing their grandchildren for, probably at this point, 15 years. They cut them over religious reasons. This particular person was an extremist\/had extreme legalistic convictions; and because the parents were not that way, they have not seen their children for 15 years. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think, most generally, those things heal themselves if the parents are careful; because the kids are going to want babysitting\/they do want them to come by. There\u2019s things that happen naturally, away from the argument and away from the fighting, that goes on sometimes. Those things will often heal themselves, but they don\u2019t always do that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And those grandkids, when they turn 15 or 20, may be thinking, \u201cI want to meet my grandparents.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Doyle:<\/strong> Well, and that can happen; yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019m also thinking of the grandkids, who are in danger. It\u2019s one thing if I feel like my daughter or my son is in danger\u2014maybe physically because maybe their spouse is abusive\u2014but now, I\u2019ve got grandkids [who] are two and three years old. As a grandparent, I\u2019m like, \u201cI want to go in there just to get <em>them<\/em> safe.\u201d What do we do?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes, Doyle; I am like going to knock down the door and save my grandkids. Like everything in me is: \u201cI\u2019m going to rescue them.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I didn\u2019t mean to get her stirred up. [Laughter] I guess I did.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> But I think most, especially moms and dads, that protective element of grandkids. Our kids are adults, but these grandkids are innocent. Even though they\u2019re not our children, what do we do with <em>that<\/em>?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Doyle:<\/strong> I just think you have to trust your kids. You\u2019ve raised them to be responsible; you\u2019ve raised them to be good kids.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> But what if our kids are just dumb kids? Come on!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Doyle:<\/strong> Then there\u2019s going to be other people that come in the loop. Social services are going to come in the loop. Other people\/neighbors are going to pick up on this. There\u2019s a lot of people that can pick up on it and, I think, asking those right questions.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019ve heard you say several times in our conversation: \u201cHow big is your God?\u201d And in many ways, it comes back to there is a God that knows, and sees, and is huge, and He\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014He sees the small.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014He\u2019s intimately involved in the small details of our life, and He can be trusted.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Doyle:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It\u2019s hard times, at times, but it\u2019s true.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You, in the end of your book, you talk about safe people and unsafe people\u2014borrowing from the work of Cloud and Townsend, who wrote the book on safe people\u2014but you say that unsafe people are people, who think they have it all together rather than admitting to their weaknesses. If you see a son-in-law or a daughter-in-law, either before or after marriage, and they\u2019re like, \u201cYes; I got this,\u201d\u2014there\u2019s an arrogance\/a pride there\u2014there should be a flag go up.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Doyle:<\/strong> There\u2019s a flag that goes up; yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You say unsafe people are religious instead of spiritual. Explain what you mean by that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Doyle:<\/strong> They might go to church faithfully, and they may go to men\u2019s meetings; but they\u2019re not spiritually inclined. They\u2019re not really in a relationship with Christ that\u2019s life- changing\/character building; and that\u2019s a big difference, Bob.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; we should point out\u2014you talked about this earlier, Dave and Ann\u2014you talked about the fact that, when you started dating, you were a new Christian. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf my daughter\u2019s dating a new Christian, I want that new Christian to have a little bit of a track record before that relationship goes too far; because sometimes, that new Christian is somebody, who\u2019s there for a couple of months, and then not around anymore. You do want to have some time to see: \u201cIs this really proving itself out in behavior?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Doyle:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You say that an unsafe person is somebody, who\u2019s defensive, instead of open to feedback. We\u2019re back to humility as a fundamental current.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Doyle:<\/strong> That\u2019s right; that\u2019s right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Unsafe people are self-righteous instead of humble; they only apologize instead of changing their behavior.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Doyle:<\/strong> Yes; apology is a quick solution to everything. It\u2019s: \u201cAll I have to do is apologize; and hopefully, you\u2019ll forgive; and that\u2019s it\u201d; but go right back into it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And as we often say at the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage getaway, an apology will not include the words: \u201cif\u201d or \u201cbut.\u201d You don\u2019t say: \u201cI\u2019m sorry <em>if<\/em>\u2026\u201d and you don\u2019t say \u201cI\u2019m sorry <em>but<\/em>\u2026\u201d You just negated the \u201cI\u2019m sorry\u201d part when you say either of those words.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Doyle:<\/strong> Right; and oftentimes, you don\u2019t even explain the depth of what you\u2019re actually apologizing for\u2014the hurt that you\u2019ve caused\/the depth of what you\u2019ve done\u2014they don\u2019t apologize for the <em>whole<\/em> thing. They want to just say, \u201cI\u2019m sorry I said that\u201d; and go on. But they don\u2019t realize what that does to the person they said it to\/the child they said it to, or whatever.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You say that unsafe people avoid working on their problems instead of dealing with them. What\u2019s the difference between working on your problem and dealing with it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Doyle:<\/strong> One\u2019s recognizing it. Working on it means I\u2019m investing in it; I\u2019m really investing in change. I\u2019m really trying to make the adjustments that I need to: I\u2019m changing my habits; I\u2019m changing the direction I drive to work; I\u2019m really working on it, day in and day out.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I read that; and I thought, \u201cThere was a point, where I was recognizing in my own life, how self-focused I was about things and how much everything I needed to have the spotlight on me.\u201d I would tell people for a while, \u201cYes; I\u2019ve recognized this about myself, and I\u2019m working on it.\u201d I learned that those people respected me more if I said that, so I just kept saying that. I wasn\u2019t really working on anything; I was just saying\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> The spotlight was on you so\u2014yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That\u2019s right; it became a new\u2014so there\u2019s a difference between godly sorrow and worldly sorrow; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Doyle:<\/strong> Right; yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> In Psalm 51, David prays for a contrite heart. I remember studying years ago, \u201cWhat\u2019s a contrite heart compared to a trite heart?\u201d Here\u2019s how I ended up: a trite heart is: \u201cI\u2019m sorry I got caught\u201d; a contrite heart is: \u201cI\u2019m sorry I did it,\u201d\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Doyle:<\/strong> That\u2019s good, Dave; that\u2019s good.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014it\u2019s true repentance. You want to see that, obviously, in your sons and daughters and who they\u2019re dating. You\u2019re never going to see that perfectly; but man, when you see true humility, which says, \u201cI am broken that I did this,\u201d\u2014godly sorrow\u2014that leads to working on it and saying \u201cGod, You\u2019ve got to change me.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think for listeners, that have kids in their home, we teach our kids these things when they\u2019re under our roof: of who to marry\/of what to look for in a spouse. I know that when our kids were little, and when our kids are below 12, they\u2019re sponges; they\u2019re soaking up everything that we\u2019re saying. I remember saying, \u201cWhat kind of girl are you going to marry?\u201d I\u2019d kind of train them, like, \u201cI\u2019m going to marry, not just a Christian, a woman who loves Jesus.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Doyle:<\/strong> Yes!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You know, I\u2019m teaching them that. And the \u201cWhys?\u201d when they get older: \u201cWhy is that important?\u201d \u201cWhat does that look like?\u201d To have those conversations, at bedtime\/around the dinner table: \u201cWhat is marriage?\u201d and \u201cWhy does it matter who I marry?\u201d \u201cWhat am I looking for in a marriage?\u201d and legacy. These are <em>great<\/em> conversations to have, and kids want to hear. They want to have instruction of what to be looking for, of who to be looking for, and character qualities of people that are following Jesus.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And by the way, I\u2019m sitting beside Ann, thinking, \u201cI watched her do this for 20-some years. She was a genius at this.\u201d I\u2019d just sit at the dinner table, like, \u201cGo girl.\u201d The boys would soak it up, and they married three incredible women. Again, I\u2019m thankful to God for that\u2014and you can\u2019t really control that\u2014but they\/I mean, Ann really trained them; and that\u2019s our job as parents: \u201cLet\u2019s step up.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I\u2019ll say: you know, what Dave did\u2014which I would encourage everyone and anyone to do\u2014that he would take Fridays\/every Friday morning, he would fast until dinner time\u2014and you started doing that when, Dave?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> When CJ was born, so 34 years.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Doyle:<\/strong> Wow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And he would be praying for their spouses, and it\u2019s <em>never<\/em> too late to start that. I have a couple of women that I have fasted with and prayed for on Wednesday\u2014that we\u2019re praying for our kids, their spouses, our grandkids\u2014that is a <em>great<\/em> principle to put into practice.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And when you sit\u2014or in my situation, got to stand and be the pastor and the father of these three weddings\u2014and you look at your future daughter-in-law. She doesn\u2019t know this; but you know it: \u201cI prayed for you before you were born. I\u2019ve been praying for you, without knowing your name, your entire life; and now, is an answer to a prayer that my son would marry a godly woman.\u201d Again, we\u2019re not sitting here, saying, \u201cWe have perfect families,\u201d\/\u201dWe\u2019re perfect,\u201d\u2014but they\u2019re amazing women\u2014and God is <em>big<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Doyle:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> He can be trusted.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And you, Doyle, have given us encouragement, and hope, and counsel. This subject, I know, is heart-wrenching for so many of our listeners. Thank you for taking time to share; thanks for the book.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; \u201cGet the book!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Absolutely; thanks for being here.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Doyle:<\/strong> Thank you for having me. I appreciate the work of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>; appreciate you guys\/love you guys. Thanks for laying the foundation: Bob, you, for many years, have been here; Dave, you and Ann, stepping up to the helm. We just praise God for you; keep it going.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Thank you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Thank you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We are, of course, making your book available this week to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners who are supporting the ongoing work of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>\/those listeners who can help advance the mission of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Doyle\u2019s book is our thank-you gift to you. It\u2019s called <a id=\"_Hlk65762217\"><em>Toxic Sons- and Daughters-in-Law<\/em><\/a><em>: Untangling Difficult Relationships<\/em>. You can purchase a copy on our website at FamilyLifeToday.com; or we\u2019ll send you a copy as a thank-you gift when you support <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> with a donation of any amount. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYour donations extend the reach of this ministry and help us connect with more people, more regularly, to effectively develop godly marriages and families. That\u2019s our goal; that\u2019s what you\u2019re investing in when you invest in the work of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, and we\u2019re grateful for that. You can donate, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY to make a donation by phone. And again, be sure to ask for Doyle Roth\u2019s book, <em>Toxic Sons- and Daughters-in-Law<\/em>, when you donate.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, David Robbins, the president of FamilyLife, is here with us today. David\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> You know, I want to take a moment and talk about one of our newest resources at FamilyLife that you probably have heard us talk about. We\u2019re starting to <em>hear<\/em> from people, who are doing the <em>Dates to Remember<\/em> box. It\u2019s really an experience: three different moments that you can have with your spouse to really develop closer connection\u2014not just spend time together on a date\u2014but really have intentional conversation that\u2019s also really fun. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019ve just got this email that shared the impact that the <em>Dates to Remember<\/em> experience had on this couple. The husband said: \u201cIt gave us a Christ-centered way to focus on one another on a date night rather than just focusing on a movie or an event, where we may end the conversation in the evening with very little connection actually happening. It really provided a way for us to connect deeply.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI just want to encourage you: \u201cIf you are continuing to look for creative ways to have connection with your spouse, the <em>Dates to Remember<\/em> box has been designed for you. I hope you\u2019ll check it out.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And of course, there\u2019s a link on our website at FamilyLifeToday.com with more information about <em>Dates to Remember<\/em>. Thank you, David; thanks for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow, we\u2019re going to talk about just how critical it is for all of us to be living our lives with an extended community around us. Sharon Hersh joins us to talk about the power of belonging to one another. I hope you can tune in for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch. We got some help from Bruce Goff and our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back tomorrow for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2021 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/306775","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=306775"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=306775"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=306775"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=306775"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=306775"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=306775"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=306775"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}