{"id":306753,"date":"2021-03-02T07:01:06","date_gmt":"2021-03-02T12:01:06","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/loss-lament-and-healing\/"},"modified":"2025-05-13T17:02:12","modified_gmt":"2025-05-13T21:02:12","slug":"loss-lament-and-healing","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/loss-lament-and-healing\/","title":{"rendered":"Loss, Lament, and Healing"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The death of someone close to us is one of the hardest things we will ever face. Vaneetha Risner tells the story of how God met her after the tragic loss of her son and the healing his life still brings to others.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>The death of someone close to us is one of the hardest things we will ever face. Vaneetha Risner tells the story of how God met her after the tragic loss of her son and the healing his life still brings to others.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"audio","audio_file":"https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2021-03-02.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:32:09","filesize":"29.43M","filesize_raw":"30861083","date_recorded":"2021-03-02 07:01:06","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2822,2860,2845,2879],"tags":[4934],"podcast_series":[8431],"cwp_profile":[9695],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-306753","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-growing-in-your-faith","category-hardship-and-suffering","category-loss-of-a-child-life-issues","category-loss-of-a-child","tag-overcoming-adversity","podcast_series-walking-through-fire","cwp_profile-vaneetha-risner","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/306753\/loss-lament-and-healing","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/306753\/loss-lament-and-healing","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"VCrzbi5m39\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/loss-lament-and-healing\/\">Loss, Lament, and Healing<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/loss-lament-and-healing\/embed\/#?secret=VCrzbi5m39\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Loss, Lament, and Healing&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"VCrzbi5m39\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2021-03-02.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> Like any mom, Vaneetha Risner was filled with <em>joy<\/em> when she gave birth to her son, Paul. Seven weeks later, when, because of a doctor\u2019s mistake, Paul died, Vaneetha had a lot to process, spiritually.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Vaneetha:<\/strong> I was mad at God; I thought, \u201cWe did all the right stuff.\u201d That was sort of the theology I had, in some ways is: \u201cYou do the right stuff; you pray; you read the Bible; you trust God; then ultimately, everything\u2019s really going to be okay.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I would just think, \u201cGod, you let me trust that Paul would be okay. You let him go through his surgery and live, and then you took him.\u201d I would say I was pretty upset with God.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Tuesday, March 2<sup>nd<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I'm Bob Lepine. You can find us online at FamilyLifeToday.com. We\u2019ll hear from Vaneetha Risner today about how she wrestled with God over this seemingly senseless tragedy in her own life. Stay with us.<\/p>\n<p>And welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. I think maybe one of the greatest sources of joy, for any parent, is when you find out that you\u2019re going to have a baby\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Oh, yes!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014that first moment. I remember Mary Ann showing up at <em>work<\/em> in the middle of the day. She walks up to the front of the radio station, where I was working. I thought, \u201cWhat\u2019s my wife doing up here at the radio station?\u201d And she was walking strong and confident and smiling; and I thought, \u201cI wonder what she\u2019s doing here?\u201d And it was because she had just come from the doctor.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> You had no idea?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> I had no idea; there was nothing. She was beaming! She was <em>thrilled<\/em>. If the joy of pregnancy and new life is on one end of the scale, then the devastation that comes when you lose a baby\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> When a <em>grandchild<\/em> is born, that\u2019s another one of the most <em>exciting<\/em> days, when that pregnancy is announced. I\u2019ll never forget\u2014our first grandchild\u2014 with our son and his wife telling us. They bought a little Harley onesie\u2014because Dave owns a Harley\u2014and said, \u201cYou\u2019re going to be a Grandpa.\u201d We were <em>ecstatic; <\/em>but then they lost that baby. And then they lost <em>another<\/em> baby; and they lost <em>another <\/em>baby.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> Wow.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> It\u2019s <em>devastating<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> The heartache is really <em>tough<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; we are talking this week with a guest, who has experienced the pain that we\u2019re talking about, and more pain in life. In fact, her book is all about the trials of life that she\u2019s been through. Vaneetha Risner is joining us, again, on <em>FamilyLife Today. <\/em>Welcome back.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Vaneetha:<\/strong> Thank you. It\u2019s great to be here.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> We have already shared this week about how you were born with polio; and it might have been diagnosed and treated properly early, but the doctors gave the wrong thing\/misdiagnosed. Your immune system was compromised, polio set in; you had dozens of surgeries before you were 13 years old.<\/p>\n<p>We shared that experience; and we want to talk here about what you experienced, as a mom, which included both miscarriages and then the birth of a son that was one of the more painful experiences of your life. Tell us about your pregnancies and your journeys. Share your story with us; can you?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Vaneetha:<\/strong> I got pregnant, after I\u2019d been married a few years, and told everyone!\u2014everybody in my office; everybody that I\u2019d ever met!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014like right away, as soon as\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Vaneetha:<\/strong> Yes! As soon as\u2014I mean, it was just out of the gate, really excited. Then, I was on a business trip in New York and started bleeding. I came back, just kind of hoping that everything was fine. I was 12 weeks; I went in and found out that I had a miscarriage.<\/p>\n<p>That was the start of this feeling, like, \u201cLife isn\u2019t going to be safe\u201d; because after I had come to Christ, I had probably 15 years of a <em>very<\/em> easy life. It so far exceeded what I ever <em>thought<\/em> life would be.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> You\u2019d graduated from the University of Virginia\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Vaneetha:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014with a degree in\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Vaneetha:<\/strong> \u2014in business.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> And then gone to Stanford and gotten a Masters\/an MBA; right?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Vaneetha:<\/strong> Yes, yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> You met your husband there.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> And your career was fast-tracking\/your business thing\u2014I mean, yes, life was going pretty good for you.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Vaneetha:<\/strong> It was. You know, for what I expected from life when I was in the hospital, life was <em>perfect<\/em>!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Vaneetha:<\/strong> I met a classmate in business school; got married; and had a great career after that. I thought, \u201cLife is good and easy.\u201d And then, when I had this miscarriage, there was just this sense that: \u201cOh, wait! Hard things can <em>still<\/em> happen.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Then had a daughter, though, after that, named Katie. I was starting to feel comfortable, but then I had another miscarriage. At that miscarriage, I did the same thing\u2014I told a lot of people\u2014because I thought, \u201cOh, I had one miscarriage, but I\u2019m not going to have <em>another<\/em> one.\u201d Having another miscarriage really sort of shook me.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; your pregnancy and the birth with Katie\u2014everything was fine?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Vaneetha:<\/strong> Everything was fine.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> Okay; alright.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Vaneetha:<\/strong> Then, I was pregnant again; and went in for a 20-week ultrasound, and found out our unborn son had a hypoplastic left heart. A hypoplastic left heart basically means only half of your heart is working. The half that actually does most of the work is not working.<\/p>\n<p>We had a choice of what we could do. I was 20 weeks along, and they said they really <em>wanted<\/em> me to have an abortion; but they said, \u201cIf you don\u2019t do that, these are some options\u2026\u201d One was having a heart transplant at birth; one was having surgery; and one was doing nothing. If you don\u2019t do anything, this condition is fatal; so within two weeks, your child will die.<\/p>\n<p>[We] ended up doing a lot of research and chose to go up to the University of Michigan and have a three-step heart surgery, which a high school friend of mine, who\u2019s a pediatric cardiologist, said, \u201cThis is a really good option; medicine has come so far.\u201d We were optimistic; went up to Michigan; had the surgery. Paul was doing great. At first, it was pretty dicey; but we came home, and things were going really well, Bob.<\/p>\n<p>I felt like, \u201cOkay, we\u2019re going to make it through this.\u201d And then, we went in for Paul\u2019s check-up. His regular cardiologist in Raleigh was not there; there was a substitute doctor. He looked at Paul and said, \u201cOh, my gosh. He\u2019s doing really well!\u201d I mean, he [Paul] was probably 50<sup>th<\/sup>-70<sup>th<\/sup>\/he was at some great percentile in height and weight. He was just <em>thriving<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> And how old is he?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Vaneetha:<\/strong> He is almost seven weeks old.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> Alright.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Vaneetha:<\/strong> The doctor sort of said, \u201cYou know what? He doesn\u2019t need all of these medicines!\u201d We had medicine that we were drawing up for him three times a day in little syringes, so we were thrilled. We thought, \u201cOkay, we\u2019re out of the woods.\u201d We took him home, and then, that night, I was going to a baby shower for him. That was the first time <em>anybody <\/em>had seen him.<\/p>\n<p>I called my friend, who had told us to go up to Michigan. I said, \u201cI just want to tell you the great news! He is off his medicine.\u201d My friend, John, said, \u201cWhat?! Tell me that again.\u201d I told him; and he said, \u201cHe <em>needs<\/em> that medicine. You need to call them and get him back on it.\u201d It was six o\u2019clock on a Friday night; and I thought, \u201cOh, no; I don\u2019t even know what he\u2019s not on. I don\u2019t know what to tell them.\u201d He said, \u201cWell, just call.\u201d I did; I left a message and went to the shower. John said I didn\u2019t need to go to the ER; he said, \u201cI think you can wait, but call first thing Monday morning.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>We went to the shower\/had a really good weekend with Paul, our son.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> You didn\u2019t hear back from the doctors?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Vaneetha:<\/strong> No; I didn\u2019t hear anything; didn\u2019t know what to do.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014which is usually good news.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Vaneetha:<\/strong> Yes, exactly! So I just thought, \u201cWe\u2019re fine!\u201d And then, Sunday night, at like three in the morning, Paul woke up. I got up to nurse him. He just screamed and went limp in Dave\u2019s arms. That was this moment, where I felt like, \u201cOh, no; God, you can\u2019t do this! You can\u2019t take Paul.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>We called 911, and an ambulance came. I remember just not knowing what to do. Dave had gone in the ambulance with Paul, and I was <em>so scared<\/em>. I called John\u2014and this was before cell phones, so I called him in the middle of the night\u2014and his wife told me that he was actually out of town at some friends\u2019 [house]. It was 3 a.m., but I called John at the friends\u2019 house. John answered, and said, \u201cI\u2019m so sorry.\u201d I could hear a note of hopelessness in his voice, so I hung up the phone. I got on my knees, and I begged God; I <em>begged <\/em>God to save Paul\u2019s life: \u201cPlease, <em>please<\/em> don\u2019t take Paul\u2019s life!\u201d And then, it ended up some friends came over to watch Katie; and I went to the ER.<\/p>\n<p>When I got to the ER, I went to the front desk. I said to them, \u201cSo they would have brought my son in by ambulance. I really want to see him!\u201d The woman said, \u201cI\u2019m sorry; your son is dead.\u201d And that moment is this moment frozen in time for me. I couldn\u2019t even process it; it wasn\u2019t something I had been expecting. I went in and just saw Paul\u2019s little body for the last time. Dave was holding him. I could not believe that had happened to us. Paul had been doing so well, and this was a doctor\u2019s mistake. I couldn\u2019t really reconcile that, in a lot of ways, with \u201cHow does God care and look after his children, who are praying?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> And it\u2019s the second doctor\u2019s mistake in your life.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Vaneetha:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> The first one was when the doctor mis-prescribed and that led to your polio.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Vaneetha:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> Now, here a doctor says, \u201cYou don\u2019t need this medication,\u201d and 72 hours later, your son is dead.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Vaneetha: <\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Were you angry with God?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Vaneetha:<\/strong> Not at first. We had the funeral; and I got up and said, \u201cGod never makes a mistake.\u201d And then, three weeks later, I wanted to pull every word back; I thought, \u201cWe did all the right stuff.\u201d That was sort of the theology I had, in some ways is: \u201cYou do the right stuff; you pray; you read the Bible; you trust God; then ultimately, everything\u2019s really going to be okay.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Looking at all of the clothes from Paul\u2019s baby shower\u2014I remember looking at those so many times\u2014because I didn\u2019t know what to do with them. Every time I saw them, I would just think, \u201cGod, you let me trust that Paul would be okay. You let him go through his surgery and live, and then you took him.\u201d I would say I was pretty upset with God.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> So you\u2019re walking through a <em>dark<\/em> night of the soul\/a valley.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Vaneetha:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> How long? I mean, what brought you out and when?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Vaneetha:<\/strong> It\u2019s interesting. I can\u2019t even remember the days, but it felt like months. I need to go back and see exactly how long it was, but it was months of feeling <em>dark<\/em>. Then, one day in the car, I just cried out to God. I said, \u201cI can\u2019t do this! I can\u2019t be this far away from You! I need You to fill me with Yourself. I need You to do something.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>And then, I put in a worship tape\u2014actually, it was a cassette tape\u2014and all of a sudden, God\u2019s presence filled my car. I didn\u2019t <em>see<\/em> God, but I <em>sensed<\/em> God with this joy that I couldn\u2019t contain. I remember being so ecstatically happy, thinking, \u201cIf this is what life with Christ is, I\u2019ll take it over anything!\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> So you felt His presence and His joy\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Vaneetha:<\/strong> Yes!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014immediately in your car?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Vaneetha:<\/strong> Yes! And I had been so depressed, and so angry, and so hurt; yet, in my car that day, God was there. God said, \u201cYou know what? No matter what you go through, you\u2019ll have Me.\u201d The need that I felt\u2014that presence that God gave me\u2014radically changed me. From that day on, I thought, \u201cOkay, God, if I know that You are here, and You can do this, then I\u2019ll walk through whatever You call me to.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> Let me go back to the valley\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Vaneetha:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014the desert that you were in\u2014were you trying to draw near to God, and it was silent?\u2014or had you given up on trying?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Vaneetha:<\/strong> Oh, I\u2019d given up on trying; I hadn\u2019t even started trying. I was just thinking, \u201cYou know, your mom says, \u2018If you can\u2019t say anything good, don\u2019t say anything at all,\u2019\u201d\u2014that was kind of where I was. I had not\u2014I was so <em>frustrated<\/em> with God and with sort of the theology that I had <em>assumed<\/em> was true\u2014I was questioning <em>everything<\/em> and didn\u2019t want to talk to God.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> Was there anybody from your church? Was Dave\/anybody <em>know<\/em> this was where you were and trying to bring you back closer to the Lord?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Vaneetha:<\/strong> No, because I am a superficial pleaser. [Laughter] At least, I <em>was<\/em>; I was all about making it look pretty.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> You were hiding it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Vaneetha:<\/strong> I was <em>hiding<\/em> it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Going to church?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Vaneetha:<\/strong> Yes! Going to church. Not necessarily telling people that God was close to me\u2014I wasn\u2019t quite that bad\u2014but I was not willing to let people in.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> If somebody came up and said, \u201cHow are you doing? I\u2019ve been praying for you,\u201d you just said, \u201cThank you; that means a lot to me\u201d?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Vaneetha:<\/strong> Exactly! You were probably in my church! You seem to have that down pretty well.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> I know how to\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Vaneetha:<\/strong> Yes; \u201cThank you; I appreciate that!\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I did not share it with <em>anybody<\/em>, which was what made it even darker. I think people, who are willing to just put it out there\u2014and say, \u201cI\u2019m angry, and I\u2019m struggling,\u201d\u2014even that can draw them to God; but I was just <em>silent<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> We have a close friend that just lost her 34-year-old daughter. Everything you\u2019re describing is what she\u2019s describing: \u201cI feel nothing. I\u2019m numb; I\u2019m angry.\u201d I\u2019m encouraged that she has, at least, said that; but she has said, \u201cI don\u2019t know how to find God again, because I don\u2019t know if I can trust Him.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>That sounds exactly like what you were <em>feeling<\/em>. What would you say to those people now?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Vaneetha:<\/strong> That\u2019s kind of the question; I mean, Jerry Bridges says, you know, \u201cCan you really trust God when adversity comes and fills your life with pain?\u201d That was my question. I would say, \u201cYes, you can\u201d; because God\/two things God taught me, really, throughout my life is: \u201cGod\u2019s going to be with you through it,\u201d\u2014that\u2019s one reason you can trust God\u2014\u201cand God\u2019s going to use it; God does have a purpose,\u201d\u2014we may not ever see it this side of heaven\u2014but \u201cKnowing that God will walk with you and God is going to use it really does change things.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>For me, it was really seeing the character of God through the Bible that really cemented my trust. It was soon after that that I started just poring over the Bible, like, \u201cI need to know You in a different way.\u201d Because, when I came to know Christ when I was 16, I knew Him as this God who had this great purpose for my life, and I really <em>liked<\/em> the Bible\u2014it was a <em>good<\/em> thing to read\u2014but through every suffering in my life, the Bible has become more and more alive to me.<\/p>\n<p>I would say, after Paul\u2019s death, I learned what lament was. I didn\u2019t know that that was even a concept in the Bible. I had heard about it; but when you read the Psalms, you see that a lot of people\u2014the psalmists, Asaph\/David\u2014they ask those hard questions, like: \u201cWhere are You, God?\u201d and \u201cCan I trust You?\u201d And God would answer, really, with Himself. I realized that\u2019s how God answered me; I didn\u2019t have a reason why Paul died\u2014I don\u2019t know\u2014but God answered me with Himself.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> It\u2019s interesting\u2014when you even talk about being in the car, and the power of the moment of ascribing worth to God\u2014I\u2019m guessing you weren\u2019t singing, but you were listening. Or maybe you were singing?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Vaneetha:<\/strong> Well, I started off by listening; and by the end, I was <em>singing<\/em>. And I <em>don\u2019t <\/em>sing well; let\u2019s just put it out there. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> But you were in your car by yourself.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Vaneetha:<\/strong> Exactly! So I could just belt it out, and nobody was going to say anything. It was incredible! It was, really, in this praising God\u2014for me\u2014I think music can sometimes unlock things in us.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Vaneetha:<\/strong> It really was just hearing the words of this song, and someone ascribing to God glory, just sort of washed over me. Just as I started to sing it, there was just this sense that the Holy Spirit said, \u201cThis is what life is really about\u201d; it <em>is <\/em>about worshiping God and forgetting everything else.<\/p>\n<p>My sister and I were talking about suffering the other day. She said, \u201cSuffering is this stripping away of everything but Jesus.\u201d I really felt like that\u2019s what had happened. God had stripped away everything at that moment, I thought, from me; but Jesus. And Jesus showed He was so much more than I thought.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> You know, it\u2019s interesting\u2014often, when we\u2019re in suffering, or in that valley, or that desert\u2014the <em>last<\/em> thing we\u2019re ever going to do\u2014I mean: \u201cI\u2019m not going to go to church,\u201d \u201cI\u2019m not going to pick up my Bible,\u201d \u201cI\u2019m <em>definitely <\/em>not going to put a worship cassette or CD on,\u201d\u2014you know\u2014\u201cI\u2019m just not going to do it!\u201d<\/p>\n<p>You know, when Ann\u2019s sister died of cancer at 45, when we would go to church and worship would be played, we would weep. I would look over, and Ann would be <em>sobbing.<\/em><\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> There\u2019s something about music that connects to your soul. I could hide everywhere else; but when I sang, it came from the depths of me. I would just weep uncontrollably, to the point where, \u201cThis is embarrassing,\u201d because I can\u2019t contain the pure depth of pain I was feeling. But there\u2019s something about worship that draws it out; doesn\u2019t it?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Vaneetha:<\/strong> Yes!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> And it\u2019s healing, in a sense.<\/p>\n<p>Here\u2019s my question, though: \u201cWhen you got out of that car, and you walked back into life, was it sustainable?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cor was it momentary?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; and was it just, \u201cI sang a song, and everything was good after that,\u201d or was there still a struggle?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Vaneetha:<\/strong> It wasn\u2019t like life was radically and totally different, but there was a grounded-ness in Christ that was different. I would say I still lamented; it was still hard; I still pored over the Psalms and asked God the hard questions, but I was <em>with <\/em>God. I was talking <em>to <\/em>God; whereas, I would say\u2014for the months before that\u2014I was not talking to God. I think <em>that\u2019s<\/em> the most important, critical piece. I started talking to God; and the more you talk to God, the more He changes you.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> And then there was a song written.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Vaneetha:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Tell us about that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Vaneetha:<\/strong> One of my really good friends is named Christa Wells. She had come over to our house, actually, after Paul had died. We talked to her a lot about what God had done in that. She wrote a song a few months later called <em>Held<\/em>. The first verse is all about Paul, and the other two are about other friends she had, [who] had sustained serious losses.<\/p>\n<p>The first verse starts with, \u201cTwo months is too little, but they let him go; they had no sudden healing.\u201d It was this amazing, healing song that she sang at our church. Then, she asked me, months later, \u201cI am thinking about asking somebody to record it,\u201d or \u201cSomebody\u2019s really interested in it,\u201d \u201cWhat do you think about that?\u201d I thought, \u201cThat sounds great.\u201d It ended up being Natalie Grant; the song is <em>Held<\/em>. I was <em>amazed<\/em> at how healing that song has been to so many people, because it has touched them.<\/p>\n<p>You know, the chorus is: \u201cThis is what it means to be held; how it feels when the sacred is torn from your life and you survive.\u201d I feel like that was our story\u2014was the sacred was torn from our life, and we survived\u2014and God held us in it.<\/p>\n<p>[<em>Held<\/em> Playing in the Background]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> I think the lyrics are so beautiful, because I think it\u2019s the question in all of our hearts: \u201cAm I held?\u201d\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Vaneetha:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014especially in the storm\/in the valley\u2014\u201cis there a God who has got me?\u201d You know, I think that\u2019s why so many people connected with that song; because it says, \u201cYes, you are. Even when it doesn\u2019t feel like it\u2014even when you can\u2019t see it or, maybe, feel it\u2014there are strong hands that have\/are holding you.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Vaneetha:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> We\u2019ve got to wrap things up here today, but we\u2019re going to take a little extra time; and if listeners want to join us, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com, we want to talk through the whole issue of lament, and how we think about that, and how we should process it; but also, the question of the sovereignty of God in the face of suffering and evil. These are questions you address in your book, <em>Walking Through Fire. <\/em><\/p>\n<p><em>\u00a0<\/em><\/p>\n<p>We want to have a little more conversation; so again, listeners can go online to FamilyLifeToday.com and download the podcast. It\u2019s about seven to eight minutes of additional conversation with Vaneetha about these questions. That\u2019s available, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com. We\u2019re making your book, <em>Walking Through Fire, <\/em>available to <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>listeners this week for anyone, who can help with a donation to help advance the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today. <\/em>We\u2019d love to send you Vaneetha\u2019s book as our thank-you gift.<\/p>\n<p>Let me just say a word: \u201cWhen you donate to <em>FamilyLife Today, <\/em>what you\u2019re really investing in is providing practical biblical help and hope for marriages and families\u2014hundreds of thousands of marriages and families\u2014every day: people who are connecting with us, here, at FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> on our website, through this radio program or podcasts; those of you who connect with us at events or use our resources.<\/p>\n<p><em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>listeners, who support this ministry, you make all of that possible any time you make a donation. We\u2019re so grateful for our regular Legacy Partners, those of you who donate each month to support this ministry. And those of you who are able, from time to time, to help with a donation, we\u2019re grateful for you as well.<\/p>\n<p>You can make a donation today. Be sure to ask for your copy of Vaneetha Risner\u2019s book, <em>Walking Through Fire. <\/em>We\u2019ll send it to you as a way of saying, \u201cThank you for your support.\u201d You can donate, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY to get your copy. Again, the title of the book is <em>Walking Through Fire<\/em>: <em>A Memoir of Loss and Redemption <\/em>by Vaneetha Risner. You can request your copy when you donate to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or by calling 1-800-358-6329; 1-800-FL-TODAY. Make your donation over the phone, and be sure to ask for your copy of Vaneetha\u2019s book when you get in touch with us.<\/p>\n<p>And we hope you can join us, again, tomorrow when Vaneetha will share with us about another turn in your life. Again, this just kind of feels like it all gets piled on; but when you learned that your husband was being unfaithful to you\u2014we\u2019ll talk about that tomorrow. I hope you can be with us for that.<\/p>\n<p>I want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch. We got some help today from Bruce Goff; and our entire broadcast production team, of course, pitched in on this program. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.<\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>We are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?<\/p>\n<p>Copyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2021 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a><\/p>\n"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:32:09"],"show_notes":["<ul>\n<li>Find resources from this podcast at <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/radio-resources\/\">shop.familylife.com<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/past-radio-resources\/\">See resources from our past podcasts.<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Find more content and resources on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/app\/\">FamilyLife's app<\/a>!<\/li>\n<li>Help others find FamilyLife. Leave a review on <a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303\">Apple Podcast<\/a> or <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm?si=d6dfa8d2415f4750\">Spotify<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Check out all the FamilyLife's podcasts on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/flministries\/familylife-podcast-network\/\">FamilyLife Podcast Network<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n"],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["29.43M"],"filesize_raw":["30861083"],"_edit_lock":["1747172102:47000"],"_g_feedback_shortcode_651f654e87440bc9243a4a9b63f81758e10a2eba":["\n\t\t\t\t[contact-field label=\"Name\" type=\"name\"  required=\"true\" \/]\n\t\t\t\t[contact-field label=\"Email\" type=\"email\" required=\"true\" \/]\n\t\t\t\t[contact-field label=\"Website\" type=\"url\" \/]\n\t\t\t\t[contact-field label=\"Message\" type=\"textarea\" 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});\";s:18:\"current_block_list\";a:17:{i:0;s:14:\"core\/paragraph\";i:1;s:14:\"uagb\/container\";i:2;s:12:\"core\/heading\";i:3;s:9:\"core\/html\";i:4;s:10:\"core\/group\";i:7;s:21:\"uagb\/advanced-heading\";i:8;s:14:\"uagb\/separator\";i:9;s:14:\"uagb\/icon-list\";i:10;s:20:\"uagb\/icon-list-child\";i:11;s:11:\"core\/search\";i:14;s:18:\"core\/legacy-widget\";i:17;s:10:\"uagb\/image\";i:18;s:17:\"core\/social-links\";i:19;s:16:\"core\/social-link\";i:20;s:30:\"meta-box\/fl-conditional-blocks\";i:21;s:12:\"uagb\/buttons\";i:22;s:18:\"uagb\/buttons-child\";}s:8:\"uag_flag\";b:1;s:11:\"uag_version\";i:1776470598;s:6:\"gfonts\";a:1:{s:7:\"Default\";a:2:{s:10:\"fontfamily\";s:7:\"Default\";s:12:\"fontvariants\";a:0:{}}}s:10:\"gfonts_url\";s:71:\"\/\/fonts.googleapis.com\/css?family=Default&subset=latin&display=fallback\";s:12:\"gfonts_files\";a:0:{}s:14:\"uag_faq_layout\";b:0;}"]},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg",508,508,false]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"kfairris@familylife.com","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/kfairrisfamilylife-com\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"The death of someone close to us is one of the hardest things we will ever face. Vaneetha Risner tells the story of how God met her after the tragic loss of her son and the healing his life still brings to others.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"<ul>\n<li>Find resources from this podcast at <a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/radio-resources\/\">shop.familylife.com<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/product-category\/past-radio-resources\/\">See resources from our past podcasts.<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Find more content and resources on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/app\/\">FamilyLife's app<\/a>!<\/li>\n<li>Help others find FamilyLife. Leave a review on <a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303\">Apple Podcast<\/a> or <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm?si=d6dfa8d2415f4750\">Spotify<\/a>.<\/li>\n<li>Check out all the FamilyLife's podcasts on the <a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/flministries\/familylife-podcast-network\/\">FamilyLife Podcast Network<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n","transcript_url":"","transcript_content":"<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> Like any mom, Vaneetha Risner was filled with <em>joy<\/em> when she gave birth to her son, Paul. Seven weeks later, when, because of a doctor\u2019s mistake, Paul died, Vaneetha had a lot to process, spiritually.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Vaneetha:<\/strong> I was mad at God; I thought, \u201cWe did all the right stuff.\u201d That was sort of the theology I had, in some ways is: \u201cYou do the right stuff; you pray; you read the Bible; you trust God; then ultimately, everything\u2019s really going to be okay.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I would just think, \u201cGod, you let me trust that Paul would be okay. You let him go through his surgery and live, and then you took him.\u201d I would say I was pretty upset with God.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Tuesday, March 2<sup>nd<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I'm Bob Lepine. You can find us online at FamilyLifeToday.com. We\u2019ll hear from Vaneetha Risner today about how she wrestled with God over this seemingly senseless tragedy in her own life. Stay with us.<\/p>\n<p>And welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. I think maybe one of the greatest sources of joy, for any parent, is when you find out that you\u2019re going to have a baby\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Oh, yes!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014that first moment. I remember Mary Ann showing up at <em>work<\/em> in the middle of the day. She walks up to the front of the radio station, where I was working. I thought, \u201cWhat\u2019s my wife doing up here at the radio station?\u201d And she was walking strong and confident and smiling; and I thought, \u201cI wonder what she\u2019s doing here?\u201d And it was because she had just come from the doctor.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> You had no idea?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> I had no idea; there was nothing. She was beaming! She was <em>thrilled<\/em>. If the joy of pregnancy and new life is on one end of the scale, then the devastation that comes when you lose a baby\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> When a <em>grandchild<\/em> is born, that\u2019s another one of the most <em>exciting<\/em> days, when that pregnancy is announced. I\u2019ll never forget\u2014our first grandchild\u2014 with our son and his wife telling us. They bought a little Harley onesie\u2014because Dave owns a Harley\u2014and said, \u201cYou\u2019re going to be a Grandpa.\u201d We were <em>ecstatic; <\/em>but then they lost that baby. And then they lost <em>another<\/em> baby; and they lost <em>another <\/em>baby.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> Wow.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> It\u2019s <em>devastating<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> The heartache is really <em>tough<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; we are talking this week with a guest, who has experienced the pain that we\u2019re talking about, and more pain in life. In fact, her book is all about the trials of life that she\u2019s been through. Vaneetha Risner is joining us, again, on <em>FamilyLife Today. <\/em>Welcome back.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Vaneetha:<\/strong> Thank you. It\u2019s great to be here.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> We have already shared this week about how you were born with polio; and it might have been diagnosed and treated properly early, but the doctors gave the wrong thing\/misdiagnosed. Your immune system was compromised, polio set in; you had dozens of surgeries before you were 13 years old.<\/p>\n<p>We shared that experience; and we want to talk here about what you experienced, as a mom, which included both miscarriages and then the birth of a son that was one of the more painful experiences of your life. Tell us about your pregnancies and your journeys. Share your story with us; can you?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Vaneetha:<\/strong> I got pregnant, after I\u2019d been married a few years, and told everyone!\u2014everybody in my office; everybody that I\u2019d ever met!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014like right away, as soon as\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Vaneetha:<\/strong> Yes! As soon as\u2014I mean, it was just out of the gate, really excited. Then, I was on a business trip in New York and started bleeding. I came back, just kind of hoping that everything was fine. I was 12 weeks; I went in and found out that I had a miscarriage.<\/p>\n<p>That was the start of this feeling, like, \u201cLife isn\u2019t going to be safe\u201d; because after I had come to Christ, I had probably 15 years of a <em>very<\/em> easy life. It so far exceeded what I ever <em>thought<\/em> life would be.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> You\u2019d graduated from the University of Virginia\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Vaneetha:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014with a degree in\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Vaneetha:<\/strong> \u2014in business.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> And then gone to Stanford and gotten a Masters\/an MBA; right?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Vaneetha:<\/strong> Yes, yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> You met your husband there.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> And your career was fast-tracking\/your business thing\u2014I mean, yes, life was going pretty good for you.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Vaneetha:<\/strong> It was. You know, for what I expected from life when I was in the hospital, life was <em>perfect<\/em>!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Vaneetha:<\/strong> I met a classmate in business school; got married; and had a great career after that. I thought, \u201cLife is good and easy.\u201d And then, when I had this miscarriage, there was just this sense that: \u201cOh, wait! Hard things can <em>still<\/em> happen.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Then had a daughter, though, after that, named Katie. I was starting to feel comfortable, but then I had another miscarriage. At that miscarriage, I did the same thing\u2014I told a lot of people\u2014because I thought, \u201cOh, I had one miscarriage, but I\u2019m not going to have <em>another<\/em> one.\u201d Having another miscarriage really sort of shook me.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; your pregnancy and the birth with Katie\u2014everything was fine?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Vaneetha:<\/strong> Everything was fine.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> Okay; alright.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Vaneetha:<\/strong> Then, I was pregnant again; and went in for a 20-week ultrasound, and found out our unborn son had a hypoplastic left heart. A hypoplastic left heart basically means only half of your heart is working. The half that actually does most of the work is not working.<\/p>\n<p>We had a choice of what we could do. I was 20 weeks along, and they said they really <em>wanted<\/em> me to have an abortion; but they said, \u201cIf you don\u2019t do that, these are some options\u2026\u201d One was having a heart transplant at birth; one was having surgery; and one was doing nothing. If you don\u2019t do anything, this condition is fatal; so within two weeks, your child will die.<\/p>\n<p>[We] ended up doing a lot of research and chose to go up to the University of Michigan and have a three-step heart surgery, which a high school friend of mine, who\u2019s a pediatric cardiologist, said, \u201cThis is a really good option; medicine has come so far.\u201d We were optimistic; went up to Michigan; had the surgery. Paul was doing great. At first, it was pretty dicey; but we came home, and things were going really well, Bob.<\/p>\n<p>I felt like, \u201cOkay, we\u2019re going to make it through this.\u201d And then, we went in for Paul\u2019s check-up. His regular cardiologist in Raleigh was not there; there was a substitute doctor. He looked at Paul and said, \u201cOh, my gosh. He\u2019s doing really well!\u201d I mean, he [Paul] was probably 50<sup>th<\/sup>-70<sup>th<\/sup>\/he was at some great percentile in height and weight. He was just <em>thriving<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> And how old is he?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Vaneetha:<\/strong> He is almost seven weeks old.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> Alright.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Vaneetha:<\/strong> The doctor sort of said, \u201cYou know what? He doesn\u2019t need all of these medicines!\u201d We had medicine that we were drawing up for him three times a day in little syringes, so we were thrilled. We thought, \u201cOkay, we\u2019re out of the woods.\u201d We took him home, and then, that night, I was going to a baby shower for him. That was the first time <em>anybody <\/em>had seen him.<\/p>\n<p>I called my friend, who had told us to go up to Michigan. I said, \u201cI just want to tell you the great news! He is off his medicine.\u201d My friend, John, said, \u201cWhat?! Tell me that again.\u201d I told him; and he said, \u201cHe <em>needs<\/em> that medicine. You need to call them and get him back on it.\u201d It was six o\u2019clock on a Friday night; and I thought, \u201cOh, no; I don\u2019t even know what he\u2019s not on. I don\u2019t know what to tell them.\u201d He said, \u201cWell, just call.\u201d I did; I left a message and went to the shower. John said I didn\u2019t need to go to the ER; he said, \u201cI think you can wait, but call first thing Monday morning.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>We went to the shower\/had a really good weekend with Paul, our son.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> You didn\u2019t hear back from the doctors?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Vaneetha:<\/strong> No; I didn\u2019t hear anything; didn\u2019t know what to do.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014which is usually good news.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Vaneetha:<\/strong> Yes, exactly! So I just thought, \u201cWe\u2019re fine!\u201d And then, Sunday night, at like three in the morning, Paul woke up. I got up to nurse him. He just screamed and went limp in Dave\u2019s arms. That was this moment, where I felt like, \u201cOh, no; God, you can\u2019t do this! You can\u2019t take Paul.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>We called 911, and an ambulance came. I remember just not knowing what to do. Dave had gone in the ambulance with Paul, and I was <em>so scared<\/em>. I called John\u2014and this was before cell phones, so I called him in the middle of the night\u2014and his wife told me that he was actually out of town at some friends\u2019 [house]. It was 3 a.m., but I called John at the friends\u2019 house. John answered, and said, \u201cI\u2019m so sorry.\u201d I could hear a note of hopelessness in his voice, so I hung up the phone. I got on my knees, and I begged God; I <em>begged <\/em>God to save Paul\u2019s life: \u201cPlease, <em>please<\/em> don\u2019t take Paul\u2019s life!\u201d And then, it ended up some friends came over to watch Katie; and I went to the ER.<\/p>\n<p>When I got to the ER, I went to the front desk. I said to them, \u201cSo they would have brought my son in by ambulance. I really want to see him!\u201d The woman said, \u201cI\u2019m sorry; your son is dead.\u201d And that moment is this moment frozen in time for me. I couldn\u2019t even process it; it wasn\u2019t something I had been expecting. I went in and just saw Paul\u2019s little body for the last time. Dave was holding him. I could not believe that had happened to us. Paul had been doing so well, and this was a doctor\u2019s mistake. I couldn\u2019t really reconcile that, in a lot of ways, with \u201cHow does God care and look after his children, who are praying?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> And it\u2019s the second doctor\u2019s mistake in your life.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Vaneetha:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> The first one was when the doctor mis-prescribed and that led to your polio.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Vaneetha:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> Now, here a doctor says, \u201cYou don\u2019t need this medication,\u201d and 72 hours later, your son is dead.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Vaneetha: <\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Were you angry with God?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Vaneetha:<\/strong> Not at first. We had the funeral; and I got up and said, \u201cGod never makes a mistake.\u201d And then, three weeks later, I wanted to pull every word back; I thought, \u201cWe did all the right stuff.\u201d That was sort of the theology I had, in some ways is: \u201cYou do the right stuff; you pray; you read the Bible; you trust God; then ultimately, everything\u2019s really going to be okay.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Looking at all of the clothes from Paul\u2019s baby shower\u2014I remember looking at those so many times\u2014because I didn\u2019t know what to do with them. Every time I saw them, I would just think, \u201cGod, you let me trust that Paul would be okay. You let him go through his surgery and live, and then you took him.\u201d I would say I was pretty upset with God.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> So you\u2019re walking through a <em>dark<\/em> night of the soul\/a valley.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Vaneetha:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> How long? I mean, what brought you out and when?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Vaneetha:<\/strong> It\u2019s interesting. I can\u2019t even remember the days, but it felt like months. I need to go back and see exactly how long it was, but it was months of feeling <em>dark<\/em>. Then, one day in the car, I just cried out to God. I said, \u201cI can\u2019t do this! I can\u2019t be this far away from You! I need You to fill me with Yourself. I need You to do something.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>And then, I put in a worship tape\u2014actually, it was a cassette tape\u2014and all of a sudden, God\u2019s presence filled my car. I didn\u2019t <em>see<\/em> God, but I <em>sensed<\/em> God with this joy that I couldn\u2019t contain. I remember being so ecstatically happy, thinking, \u201cIf this is what life with Christ is, I\u2019ll take it over anything!\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> So you felt His presence and His joy\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Vaneetha:<\/strong> Yes!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014immediately in your car?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Vaneetha:<\/strong> Yes! And I had been so depressed, and so angry, and so hurt; yet, in my car that day, God was there. God said, \u201cYou know what? No matter what you go through, you\u2019ll have Me.\u201d The need that I felt\u2014that presence that God gave me\u2014radically changed me. From that day on, I thought, \u201cOkay, God, if I know that You are here, and You can do this, then I\u2019ll walk through whatever You call me to.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> Let me go back to the valley\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Vaneetha:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014the desert that you were in\u2014were you trying to draw near to God, and it was silent?\u2014or had you given up on trying?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Vaneetha:<\/strong> Oh, I\u2019d given up on trying; I hadn\u2019t even started trying. I was just thinking, \u201cYou know, your mom says, \u2018If you can\u2019t say anything good, don\u2019t say anything at all,\u2019\u201d\u2014that was kind of where I was. I had not\u2014I was so <em>frustrated<\/em> with God and with sort of the theology that I had <em>assumed<\/em> was true\u2014I was questioning <em>everything<\/em> and didn\u2019t want to talk to God.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> Was there anybody from your church? Was Dave\/anybody <em>know<\/em> this was where you were and trying to bring you back closer to the Lord?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Vaneetha:<\/strong> No, because I am a superficial pleaser. [Laughter] At least, I <em>was<\/em>; I was all about making it look pretty.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> You were hiding it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Vaneetha:<\/strong> I was <em>hiding<\/em> it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Going to church?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Vaneetha:<\/strong> Yes! Going to church. Not necessarily telling people that God was close to me\u2014I wasn\u2019t quite that bad\u2014but I was not willing to let people in.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> If somebody came up and said, \u201cHow are you doing? I\u2019ve been praying for you,\u201d you just said, \u201cThank you; that means a lot to me\u201d?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Vaneetha:<\/strong> Exactly! You were probably in my church! You seem to have that down pretty well.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> I know how to\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Vaneetha:<\/strong> Yes; \u201cThank you; I appreciate that!\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I did not share it with <em>anybody<\/em>, which was what made it even darker. I think people, who are willing to just put it out there\u2014and say, \u201cI\u2019m angry, and I\u2019m struggling,\u201d\u2014even that can draw them to God; but I was just <em>silent<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> We have a close friend that just lost her 34-year-old daughter. Everything you\u2019re describing is what she\u2019s describing: \u201cI feel nothing. I\u2019m numb; I\u2019m angry.\u201d I\u2019m encouraged that she has, at least, said that; but she has said, \u201cI don\u2019t know how to find God again, because I don\u2019t know if I can trust Him.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>That sounds exactly like what you were <em>feeling<\/em>. What would you say to those people now?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Vaneetha:<\/strong> That\u2019s kind of the question; I mean, Jerry Bridges says, you know, \u201cCan you really trust God when adversity comes and fills your life with pain?\u201d That was my question. I would say, \u201cYes, you can\u201d; because God\/two things God taught me, really, throughout my life is: \u201cGod\u2019s going to be with you through it,\u201d\u2014that\u2019s one reason you can trust God\u2014\u201cand God\u2019s going to use it; God does have a purpose,\u201d\u2014we may not ever see it this side of heaven\u2014but \u201cKnowing that God will walk with you and God is going to use it really does change things.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>For me, it was really seeing the character of God through the Bible that really cemented my trust. It was soon after that that I started just poring over the Bible, like, \u201cI need to know You in a different way.\u201d Because, when I came to know Christ when I was 16, I knew Him as this God who had this great purpose for my life, and I really <em>liked<\/em> the Bible\u2014it was a <em>good<\/em> thing to read\u2014but through every suffering in my life, the Bible has become more and more alive to me.<\/p>\n<p>I would say, after Paul\u2019s death, I learned what lament was. I didn\u2019t know that that was even a concept in the Bible. I had heard about it; but when you read the Psalms, you see that a lot of people\u2014the psalmists, Asaph\/David\u2014they ask those hard questions, like: \u201cWhere are You, God?\u201d and \u201cCan I trust You?\u201d And God would answer, really, with Himself. I realized that\u2019s how God answered me; I didn\u2019t have a reason why Paul died\u2014I don\u2019t know\u2014but God answered me with Himself.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> It\u2019s interesting\u2014when you even talk about being in the car, and the power of the moment of ascribing worth to God\u2014I\u2019m guessing you weren\u2019t singing, but you were listening. Or maybe you were singing?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Vaneetha:<\/strong> Well, I started off by listening; and by the end, I was <em>singing<\/em>. And I <em>don\u2019t <\/em>sing well; let\u2019s just put it out there. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> But you were in your car by yourself.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Vaneetha:<\/strong> Exactly! So I could just belt it out, and nobody was going to say anything. It was incredible! It was, really, in this praising God\u2014for me\u2014I think music can sometimes unlock things in us.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Vaneetha:<\/strong> It really was just hearing the words of this song, and someone ascribing to God glory, just sort of washed over me. Just as I started to sing it, there was just this sense that the Holy Spirit said, \u201cThis is what life is really about\u201d; it <em>is <\/em>about worshiping God and forgetting everything else.<\/p>\n<p>My sister and I were talking about suffering the other day. She said, \u201cSuffering is this stripping away of everything but Jesus.\u201d I really felt like that\u2019s what had happened. God had stripped away everything at that moment, I thought, from me; but Jesus. And Jesus showed He was so much more than I thought.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> You know, it\u2019s interesting\u2014often, when we\u2019re in suffering, or in that valley, or that desert\u2014the <em>last<\/em> thing we\u2019re ever going to do\u2014I mean: \u201cI\u2019m not going to go to church,\u201d \u201cI\u2019m not going to pick up my Bible,\u201d \u201cI\u2019m <em>definitely <\/em>not going to put a worship cassette or CD on,\u201d\u2014you know\u2014\u201cI\u2019m just not going to do it!\u201d<\/p>\n<p>You know, when Ann\u2019s sister died of cancer at 45, when we would go to church and worship would be played, we would weep. I would look over, and Ann would be <em>sobbing.<\/em><\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> There\u2019s something about music that connects to your soul. I could hide everywhere else; but when I sang, it came from the depths of me. I would just weep uncontrollably, to the point where, \u201cThis is embarrassing,\u201d because I can\u2019t contain the pure depth of pain I was feeling. But there\u2019s something about worship that draws it out; doesn\u2019t it?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Vaneetha:<\/strong> Yes!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> And it\u2019s healing, in a sense.<\/p>\n<p>Here\u2019s my question, though: \u201cWhen you got out of that car, and you walked back into life, was it sustainable?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cor was it momentary?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; and was it just, \u201cI sang a song, and everything was good after that,\u201d or was there still a struggle?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Vaneetha:<\/strong> It wasn\u2019t like life was radically and totally different, but there was a grounded-ness in Christ that was different. I would say I still lamented; it was still hard; I still pored over the Psalms and asked God the hard questions, but I was <em>with <\/em>God. I was talking <em>to <\/em>God; whereas, I would say\u2014for the months before that\u2014I was not talking to God. I think <em>that\u2019s<\/em> the most important, critical piece. I started talking to God; and the more you talk to God, the more He changes you.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> And then there was a song written.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Vaneetha:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Tell us about that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Vaneetha:<\/strong> One of my really good friends is named Christa Wells. She had come over to our house, actually, after Paul had died. We talked to her a lot about what God had done in that. She wrote a song a few months later called <em>Held<\/em>. The first verse is all about Paul, and the other two are about other friends she had, [who] had sustained serious losses.<\/p>\n<p>The first verse starts with, \u201cTwo months is too little, but they let him go; they had no sudden healing.\u201d It was this amazing, healing song that she sang at our church. Then, she asked me, months later, \u201cI am thinking about asking somebody to record it,\u201d or \u201cSomebody\u2019s really interested in it,\u201d \u201cWhat do you think about that?\u201d I thought, \u201cThat sounds great.\u201d It ended up being Natalie Grant; the song is <em>Held<\/em>. I was <em>amazed<\/em> at how healing that song has been to so many people, because it has touched them.<\/p>\n<p>You know, the chorus is: \u201cThis is what it means to be held; how it feels when the sacred is torn from your life and you survive.\u201d I feel like that was our story\u2014was the sacred was torn from our life, and we survived\u2014and God held us in it.<\/p>\n<p>[<em>Held<\/em> Playing in the Background]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> I think the lyrics are so beautiful, because I think it\u2019s the question in all of our hearts: \u201cAm I held?\u201d\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Vaneetha:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014especially in the storm\/in the valley\u2014\u201cis there a God who has got me?\u201d You know, I think that\u2019s why so many people connected with that song; because it says, \u201cYes, you are. Even when it doesn\u2019t feel like it\u2014even when you can\u2019t see it or, maybe, feel it\u2014there are strong hands that have\/are holding you.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Vaneetha:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> We\u2019ve got to wrap things up here today, but we\u2019re going to take a little extra time; and if listeners want to join us, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com, we want to talk through the whole issue of lament, and how we think about that, and how we should process it; but also, the question of the sovereignty of God in the face of suffering and evil. These are questions you address in your book, <em>Walking Through Fire. <\/em><\/p>\n<p><em>\u00a0<\/em><\/p>\n<p>We want to have a little more conversation; so again, listeners can go online to FamilyLifeToday.com and download the podcast. It\u2019s about seven to eight minutes of additional conversation with Vaneetha about these questions. That\u2019s available, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com. We\u2019re making your book, <em>Walking Through Fire, <\/em>available to <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>listeners this week for anyone, who can help with a donation to help advance the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today. <\/em>We\u2019d love to send you Vaneetha\u2019s book as our thank-you gift.<\/p>\n<p>Let me just say a word: \u201cWhen you donate to <em>FamilyLife Today, <\/em>what you\u2019re really investing in is providing practical biblical help and hope for marriages and families\u2014hundreds of thousands of marriages and families\u2014every day: people who are connecting with us, here, at FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> on our website, through this radio program or podcasts; those of you who connect with us at events or use our resources.<\/p>\n<p><em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>listeners, who support this ministry, you make all of that possible any time you make a donation. We\u2019re so grateful for our regular Legacy Partners, those of you who donate each month to support this ministry. And those of you who are able, from time to time, to help with a donation, we\u2019re grateful for you as well.<\/p>\n<p>You can make a donation today. Be sure to ask for your copy of Vaneetha Risner\u2019s book, <em>Walking Through Fire. <\/em>We\u2019ll send it to you as a way of saying, \u201cThank you for your support.\u201d You can donate, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY to get your copy. Again, the title of the book is <em>Walking Through Fire<\/em>: <em>A Memoir of Loss and Redemption <\/em>by Vaneetha Risner. You can request your copy when you donate to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or by calling 1-800-358-6329; 1-800-FL-TODAY. Make your donation over the phone, and be sure to ask for your copy of Vaneetha\u2019s book when you get in touch with us.<\/p>\n<p>And we hope you can join us, again, tomorrow when Vaneetha will share with us about another turn in your life. Again, this just kind of feels like it all gets piled on; but when you learned that your husband was being unfaithful to you\u2014we\u2019ll talk about that tomorrow. I hope you can be with us for that.<\/p>\n<p>I want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch. We got some help today from Bruce Goff; and our entire broadcast production team, of course, pitched in on this program. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.<\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>We are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?<\/p>\n<p>Copyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2021 FamilyLife. 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