{"id":306748,"date":"2021-02-26T07:00:04","date_gmt":"2021-02-26T12:00:04","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/helping-the-abused\/"},"modified":"2021-02-26T07:00:04","modified_gmt":"2021-02-26T12:00:04","slug":"helping-the-abused","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/helping-the-abused\/","title":{"rendered":"Helping The Abused"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>How do I help someone being abused? On FamilyLife Today, hosts Dave and Ann Wilson talk with counselor and author Darby Strickland about understanding the truth and walking in love with those in that situation.<br \/>\nShow Notes and Resources<\/p>\n<p> \tDownload FamilyLife&#8217;s new app! https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/app\/<br \/>\n \tFind resources from this podcast at https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/Products.aspx?categoryid=130.<br \/>\n \tCheck out all that&#8217;s available on the FamilyLife Podcast Network.\u00a0 https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/familylife-podcast-network\/<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>How do I help someone being abused? Darby Strickland talks about understanding the truth and walking in love with those in that situation.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2021-02-26.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:30:24","filesize":"27.84M","filesize_raw":"29187493","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2873,2093],"tags":[2949],"podcast_series":[8430],"cwp_profile":[9694],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-306748","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-mental-and-emotional-issues","category-women","tag-abuse","podcast_series-is-it-abuse","cwp_profile-darby-strickland","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/306748\/helping-the-abused","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/306748\/helping-the-abused","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"ATdOW0Z1Fm\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/helping-the-abused\/\">Helping The Abused<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/helping-the-abused\/embed\/#?secret=ATdOW0Z1Fm\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Helping The Abused&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"ATdOW0Z1Fm\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":[""],"audio_file":["https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2021-02-26.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Friday,  26 <sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are  and Ann Wilson; I\u2019m Bob Lepine. You can find us online at FamilyLifeToday.com. What if you\u2019re married to an oppressor? What do you do? We\u2019re going to talk today with Darby Strickland about that. Stay with us.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. Ann, I know you have talked to women throughout the years\u2014both in the church\/in your interaction with football wives\u2014at <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> getaways, women who have come up to you and have maybe been bold enough to say, \u201cThere is stuff happening in our marriage that I\u2019m uncomfortable with; I\u2019m being abused by my husband.\u201d In that moment, you find yourself going, \u201cWhat do I say? How do I help somebody in this immediate situation?\u201d What have you said in those situations?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> It is interesting; at the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em>, we have had a booklet, for years, that we put on the stage called \u201cA Way of Hope.\u201d We say up-front, \u201cWe\u2019re going to put these little pamphlets on the stage. If you know someone that is being abused in any way\u2014physically, domestically, spiritually\u2014pick this up.\u201d Almost every single time, all of those booklets are gone.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; Darby Strickland is joining us this week to help us think rightly about these things. Darby, welcome back.\n\n<strong>Darby:<\/strong> Thank you.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Darby has written a book called <em>Is It Abuse?<\/em>\n\nHave you had women come to you and say, \u201cHere is what\u2019s going on,\u201d and you\u2019ve smiled and said, \u201cOh, sweetheart, that\u2019s not abuse. That\u2019s\/what you\u2019ve got going on is just\u2014you just need to buck up and move on\u201d?\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cThat\u2019s marriage.\u201d [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Darby:<\/strong> I would say  I\u2019ve probably had one woman approach me out of the hundreds that I talk to that, not only was it just not abuse, but she was more angry and entitled than her husband was.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We think of that sometimes, where a wife will say, \u201cMy husband is so abusive; he\u2019s so controlling.\u201d What she is saying is: \u201cI don\u2019t get to do what I want.\u201d Well, I go, \u201cNone of us gets to what I want.\u201d\n\n<strong>Darby:<\/strong> Exactly.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So where is the line in emotional abuse?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I want to ask that, too; because probably more than any other statement that I hear, it\u2019s that: \u201cI am being emotionally abused.\u201d I don\u2019t always know; like: \u201cIs that emotional abuse?\u201d \u201cIs that normal?\u201d If somebody says that to me, do you think it usually is?\n\n<strong>Darby:<\/strong> I go with the premise that it is; then I am going to verify that. Again, I\u2019m just going to slow the person down; I\u2019m going to ask them a question. Maybe, they are reporting to me that their husband is ignoring them; so, then, I have to ask them a series of questions: \u201cHow long has he been ignoring you?\u201d \u201cWhat does that gain him when he ignores you? What effect does that have on you? How does that change your future behavior?\u201d \u201cWho repairs the relationship? When does that happen? What does that look like?\u201d \u201cCan you say to your husband, \u2018This hurts me\u2019? Does he receive your complaint?\u201d\n\nYou want to find out how a particular behavior functions in the relationship. It could just be that he\u2019s really stressed after work, and he needs a little down time. It could be that he is ignoring her to pull back because he\u2019s displeased, and he is trying to shape her behavior so she\u2019s performing in a way that he desires.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I was just  about a woman, whose husband didn\u2019t talk to her for two weeks. She was begging him: \u201cPlease talk to me. I don\u2019t know what\u2019s happening. I need you to talk to me.\u201d Finally, he said, \u201cI don\u2019t want you. I\u2019ve never wanted to be married to you, and I want a divorce.\u201d She\u2019s like, \u201cOkay; let\u2019s just do that.\u201d Then, they followed through with that; then, he came back the next day and said, \u201cI don\u2019t want a divorce. I don\u2019t know why I said that.\u201d\n\nThis has gone on, over and over and over, where he won\u2019t talk to her. He wants a divorce; and then he says, \u201cI\u2019m sorry I shouldn\u2019t have said that. I really don\u2019t want a divorce.\u201d She has no idea what to do. What would you say to that person?\n\n<strong>Darby:<\/strong> I would want to sit with her and say: \u201cWhat is he gaining when he is pulling away from you?\u201d and \u201cWhat happens when you are drawn back to him?\u201d \u201cIs he repenting?\u2014is he saying, \u2018I\u2019m sorry. I acknowledge, when I\u2019m saying this to you, I see the amount of damage that that does to you\u2019?\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; he does say that; but then it happens again, and again, and again.\n\n<strong>Darby:<\/strong> Yes; so then, we look at\u2014Scripture talks about: \u201cWe know a tree by its fruit.\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014difference between godly sorrow and worldly sorrow; right?\n\n<strong>Darby:<\/strong> Amen; amen.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is a common pattern with abuse and with oppressors. You use the term, \u201coppressor,\u201d as opposed to abuser in your book; but it is common for somebody, who is an oppressor or an abuser, to feel remorse pretty quickly after they\u2019ve been abusive\u2014and to be sorrowful for it, and then have a period of time where they reform their behavior\u2014and then they lapse back into it. Is that not a common pattern?\n\n<strong>Darby:<\/strong> Yes; and I would say that it\u2019s not that they lapse back into it; it\u2019s just they never really repented of the underlying attitude of entitlement. Actually, apology, and the contrition, and the gifts, and the sweet words are all a way of reestablishing control over that person. It\u2019s not so much that it is cyclical; it\u2019s that the form of control changes.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> When somebody does come back, and appears contrite and sorrowful, what should her response to that contrition be?\n\n<strong>Darby:<\/strong> Well, I think the first is for her to do a good job listening\u2014and to invite somebody in, who is wiser, who can listen more objectively\u2014\u201cIs the contrition\/is the sorrow for themselves for how their world is being disrupted\/for the consequences they are facing for their own embarrassment?\u201d or \u201cAre they saying, \u2018I\u2019m really panicked that I could do this, and be this way, and I want to get help\u2019?\u201d\n\nAre they naming their specific sins\u2014a lot of them in detail\/ in concrete\u2014saying, \u201cThis is the way I am going to walk out repentance. I\u2019m not\u2014I promise that I\u2019m not going to interrupt you anymore.\u201d That\u2019s nice; but then, how does that play out?\u2014does he really stop interrupting her? There are words; and even sometimes, the words are very insufficient when we measure them against what Scripture requires for repentance; but then there also has to be fruit. That should be sustained long-term fruit.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> If there is no fruit, when do you tell her or encourage her\u2014it\u2019s going to be her decision\u2014\u201cThis is ain\u2019t changing, girlfriend. It\u2019s time to take action.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I\u2019ll add this too, Dave; because this person that I was talking about\u2014I would say, \u201cWhen you say to him, \u2018We need to get help; we need counseling,\u2019\u2014he\u2019ll say, \u2018Yes; we\u2019ll do that\u2019; but then it never happens. He\u2019ll never go through with that.\u201d Is that a sign too?\n\n<strong>Darby:<\/strong> Sure, that\u2019s somebody who is really not committed to changing.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Okay.\n\n<strong>Darby:<\/strong> Those are the types of things I like to say: \u201cWhat are you looking for?\u201d So, ahead of her receiving the apology\u2014or maybe she\u2019s had an apology before, but then the actions didn\u2019t happen\u2014I\u2019d say, \u201cLet\u2019s just brainstorm together. What would real repentance look like here? What change should you start to see happen?\u201d I mean, it\u2019s good\u2014we want to see somebody inching along\u2014but not when it\u2019s one step forward and two steps back into abuse.\n\nAgain, I often have to remind women of how they were treated; they don\u2019t remember. That\u2019s what\u2019s really hard. I will serve as the timeline; and I\u2019ll say, \u201cSix months ago, when you had to leave because he was following you around the house, the children were scared; and you spent the night at your mom\u2019s. He felt like you abandoned him.\u201d \u201cOh, right.\u201d \u201cWe\u2019re hearing the same language that we were hearing then. Do you remember eight months ago?\u201d They just don\u2019t have the capacity to hold all those horrible truths together. Sometimes, it\u2019s creating a pattern.\n\nBut also, I say, \u201cWhat has to happen for you to do something? What has to happen for you to tell the pastor?\u201d and \u201cWhen do you think you need to make the next step?\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Next step commonly is going to involve bringing other people\u2014this is\n\nMatthew 18\u2014we bring two or three witnesses into the conversation?\n\n<strong>Darby:<\/strong> In a sense\u2014right?\u2014Matthew 18; she\u2019s probably already told him dozens of times; right?\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Darby:<\/strong> Ideally, we want to bring somebody else in; but it has to be safe. Sometimes, we need to extract her\u2014she has to separate, and she has to flee\u2014then we have that confrontation. By doing a safety assessment, or working with the victim and finding out her level of safety\u2014we can\u2019t just go and say, \u201cThis person is behaving in an oppressive way, and we\u2019re going to come and confront him,\u201d\u2014because oftentimes, her life is made miserable.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is really  Explain what is going on here, and why it is so critical, and how you can make sure there is safety before you bring somebody else in.\n\n<strong>Darby:<\/strong>  so in my book\/in the back of my book is the domestic violence hotline; you can do a safety assessment. There are certain behaviors that you are looking for if someone is being stalked or strangled\u2014there has been sexual abuse or certain things that put women at a higher risk\u2014you want to know what those are; \u201cHas the violence been increasing in intensity or in frequency?\u201d\n\nAnytime a woman leaves, or is planning to leave, she is in the most danger\u2014right?\u2014because that\u2019s when I\u2019m [oppressor] going to amp up my\u2014\u201cI can\u2019t control, so I\u2019m going to escalate the violence,\u201d\u2014even if I\u2019ve not been violent before. I think that is something that we don\u2019t understand.\n\nI counseled a woman, in particular; her husband was extremely controlling and cruel to the point, where she couldn\u2019t have five dollars in her wallet. Every trek was premade; she was monitored. He was <em>never<\/em> physically abusive. She started talking about separation. Within two weeks, she had a gun pointed at her. He had never\u2014so we often think there is this progression.\n\nWe  want to work with experts. If we have a friend, and we\u2019re not sure this person is dangerous, call the hotline with them; invite an expert in. You don\u2019t know a lot. What you don\u2019t know can really put someone in danger.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So  tell me you have success stories. I\u2019m sitting here, listening, like, \u201cPlease tell me there is success; you\u2019ve seen God show up and do miracles.\u201d\n\n<strong>Darby:<\/strong> God shows up and does miracles. It depends on what we define as success. If I have a woman, who has children\/female children in her home, who are no longer watching her being abused, that\u2019s success. Those children now know what a godly husband should look like; that\u2019s success. They don\u2019t leave the church in their early 20s, because of the hypocrisy; that\u2019s success. If I see a woman reconnecting with the Lord\u2014because she knows her worth in Him; and she knows who she is, whether or not that marriage survives or not\u2014that\u2019s success.\n\nOppressors are hard to change; they have their world the way they want it. What would propel them to make things different?\u2014it\u2019s not likely. It can happen\u2014that\u2019s the great thing about it\u2014the Holy Spirit can do anything at any time, and we root for that. But I just tell the victims what success is: \u201c\u2026is glorifying God in your life, before your children, and knowing who you are in Christ.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That is good.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I mean, what a great, great answer.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You  \u201cOppressors\u2026it\u2019s hard for them to change.\u201d\n\n<strong>Darby:<\/strong> Sure,  drives an oppressor is they have a heart that is entitled; they want things the way they want them. They believe that they are right; they blame shift. They don\u2019t have insight that they are sinners; they make rules that don\u2019t apply to them.\n\nI\u2019ve had women tell me: \u201cI have to stir my tea a certain way,\u201d \u201cI have to load the dishwasher a certain way,\u201d \u201cI can only wear this hairstyle\u201d; or there will just be these cruel things happening. If you think about\u2014\u201cIf I get to have, as a spouse: \u2018I get to have all the latest technology,\u2019 \u2018I get to eat all the foods that I want,\u2019 \u2018I get to reap all the benefits, but I don\u2019t have to do the hard work of maintaining the home,\u2019\u201d\u2014I say, \u201cOppressors usurp God\u2019s position.\u201d\n\nThey really demand to be worshipped. When they replace themselves as the center\u2014which everyone has to revolve around\u2014they don\u2019t have anything externally referential that they defer to authority-wise: they don\u2019t have insight that what they believe is wrong; they feel self-righteous; they don\u2019t have a need for Christ; they are really in a very dangerous spiritual position.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I mean, I looked at what you wrote in your book, these six beliefs. You sort of said\u2014let me read them. These are scary, because I think we can see them in ourselves; like, \u201cIf we\u2019re not careful\u2026\u201d\n\n<strong>Darby:<\/strong> We\u2019re all entitled; right? But the difference between you and me, I\u2019d like to think\u2014I mean, an oppressor\u2014is when someone confronts me about my sin, I\u2019m sorrowful; I\u2019m broken; it bothers me. Maybe, they have to confront me more than once; but I have empathy for the other person. I want to be pleasing to the Lord; I\u2019m influence-able, and I know I have a need of Jesus.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> That\u2019s big. Here they are; maybe, there is one of these you want to talk\u2014\n\n<strong>Darby:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014or several:\n\nKey belief number one: \u201cIt\u2019s all about me.\u201d\n\nKey belief  two: \u201cYou need to listen only to me.\u201d\n\nNumber three: \u201cRules are not for me to follow; they are to keep me happy.\u201d\n\n\u201cMy anger is justified.\u201d\n\n\u201cOther people attack me.\u201d\n\nThe last one is: \u201cI don\u2019t have to appreciate what you do, but I demand that you appreciate what I do.\u201d\n\n<strong>Darby:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> In some ways, we have that sin bent in us; but when it gets out of control, it\u2019s dominating; right? You become the oppressor.\n\n<strong>Darby:<\/strong>  it becomes toxic. It becomes the ruling force when it becomes a closed system; that\u2019s when it becomes oppressive.\n\nYou think: \u201cYou and I only have to listen to me\u201d; right? We can see it in an abusive argument, where some is constantly interrupted: they are mocked; their eyes are rolling. Or an argument hits a certain dead point; but then, the oppressor is following the abused woman around the house: \u201cI will be heard\u201d; right? That\u2019s how those things become toxic and damaging.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Well, it\u2019s interesting, too, Darby; because as we\u2019re talking about this oppressor, they are kind of\u2014it sounds slimy\u2014it\u2019s like this Lifetime movie kind of guy; you know?\n\n I know that there was a couple that we knew\u2014we were friends with them\u2014he was the <em>nicest<\/em> guy, and she was coming to my Bible study. One week, she came. She had on sunglasses; and we\u2019re like, \u201cWhat\u2019s up?\u201d She said, \u201cOh, I have an infection in my eye. It looks super gross. I don\u2019t want anybody to see.\u201d I was only in my 20s, and I just\/I didn\u2019t think about anything more than that.\n\nLater, they moved away; and it was in the paper that she left him, because he was physically abusive to her. I was <em>shocked<\/em>; because I thought,  Nicest guy ever.\u201d Can that be typical?\n\n<strong>Darby:<\/strong> That is typical. Right; if oppressors want the world to revolve around them, they want everyone on the outside to think that they are wonderful. Typically, they are the best deacon. A man that I knew: he would do every airport run you could; he\u2019d take kids to Philly games; he just did all these outward works, where he was adored on the outside world; but the private life of an oppressor stands in great contrast to the public life.\n\nThat\u2019s what makes it so difficult for us is, again, we\u2019re being asked to believe something that doesn\u2019t match up with our experience of this person. That\u2019s why women have a hard time coming forward: \u201cWho would believe me?\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Right; and then you can take Scripture, like, 1 Peter 3, \u201cLikewise, wives be subject to your own husband so that even if some do not obey the word, they may be won without a word by the conduct of their wives.\u201d I\u2019ve used that Scripture a lot for women who are married to men who are not believers: \u201cYou just live that out. You just show them what it looks like to be a believer.\u201d Yet, I wonder, sometimes, if women are bearing some of the things that they are going through.\n\n<strong>Darby:<\/strong> Yes; if you  about an oppressor, he\u2019s about his entitlements. If you tell a woman the way to win her husband over is to serve those needs\u2014right?\u2014his needs are going to be ever increasing. There is nothing that she can do that he is ever going to be satisfied.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Is an oppressor a narcissist? Are all narcissists oppressors? Are all oppressors narcissists?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong>  a good question.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes?\n\n<strong>Darby:<\/strong> I wouldn\u2019t go that far. There are very close cousins\u2014right?\u2014so there tends to be overlap.\n\nWhat I <em>would<\/em> say is that there is never an excuse to oppress, whether you have a narcissistic diagnosis or alcoholism. It is behavior driven; those are behavior choices about who to put in the center of the relationship\u2014it\u2019s not the Lord, and you are not serving Him if it\u2019s all about you\u2014and \u201cI\u2019m going to punish you\u201d\u2014right?\u2014that\u2019s more than narcissism.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> What  a guy do if he thinks or senses that one of his buddies is one of these oppressors?\n\n<strong>Darby:<\/strong> Yes; two things actually. One, you want to enlist your wife to pursue that woman. You want to just say to her, \u201cJust keep pursuing her.\u201d\n\nThen I think it\u2019s really helpful\u2014men often think they shouldn\u2019t talk to women, who are being oppressed\u2014but I think pastors and elders, once it comes out, it\u2019s so vital for a pastor to say to a victim, \u201cI see what\u2019s happening to you; it\u2019s wrong. This goes against God\u2019s Word and against His creation of marriage. It grieves me.\u201d Women make so much more progress when their male leaders say to them, \u201cI\u2019m broken with you, and this is not okay.\u201d\n\nWith that said, you\u2019re asking me, \u201cHow do you pursue these men?\u201d Again, \u201cIs it safe?\u201d You might pursue them in low-level discipleship: \u201cHey, I see your kids; it looks like they are struggling in Sunday school.\u201d Build a relationship; go after something else. Create a value for that gentleman that you love on him\/that you want to see him do well in the Lord; and then, hopefully over time, as things come forward, you have nurtured a relationship, where you can speak hard things. But if you speak hard things directly, you could be putting her in danger; they might never come back to church. You really want to be thinking about <em>her<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Well, I just want to add this, too\u2014any women that are listening to this, and their hearts are beating; they are starting to wonder, like, \u201cI\u2019m going through this,\u201d\u2014I want to remind you that: \u201cGod loves you; God sees you; you are an image-bearer. Maybe, you feel like you <em>deserve<\/em> some of this that\u2019s going on; and you <em>don\u2019t<\/em>. That was never what God intended for you, because He loves you.\u201d\n\nDarby, would you say\/add anything else to that?\n\n<strong>Darby:<\/strong> I would say one thing is\u2014God promises a rescue\u2014we, often, in the church think that Christ came for our sin.\n\nWe think about God introducing Himself to the people in Exodus; He says, \u201cI have heard the cries of my people, and I have come to deliver you from the hands of your oppressors.\u201d His rescue is also when we are being sinned against. Other people sinning against us matters to Him. It moved Christ, and that was His opening words of His ministry: \u201cI\u2019ve come to free the oppressed.\u201d So, yes; you probably don\u2019t feel heard. Open a Psalm; it says, \u201cI don\u2019t feel heard.\u201d Believe that He is coming with a rescue.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s good.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> There is a part of me that thinks, \u201cYou\u2019ve got to put your hand up in the water; because somebody, maybe, doesn\u2019t see you are drowning. Put your hand up so the people of God can come and be the rescue of God.\u201d\n\n<strong>Darby:<\/strong> I say: \u201cGo to someone and ask a question. If you don\u2019t get a good answer\/if they are not drawing you out, trying to find out more of your story, find somebody else.\u201d \u201cBring them a book on domestic abuse and ask a good friend, \u2018Would you read this, so you can help me?\u2019\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I don\u2019t  do you know a good book on domestic abuse?\n\n<strong>Darby:<\/strong> I\u2019m favorable to <em>one<\/em>. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This has been very helpful. I\u2019m imagining, as you said, there are people who\u2019s hearts are beating faster\/people, who are recognizing, \u201cThey are talking about my story; I don\u2019t know what to do with it; I don\u2019t know if I feel safe talking to anybody.\u201d I just think we need to pray\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; me too.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014for those people. Would you pray for them?\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>Darby:<\/strong>\n\nOh, Father God, I do\/I know You have a heart for victims, that You see them. Your heart is moved by the pain that they are in, and Your Word is clear; it hates sin. It seeks to drive out sin, and it seeks to protect the vulnerable.\n\nFor any woman here, listening, that feels vulnerable, that feels afraid of their spouse, that is confused\u2014\u201cIs this my story?\u201d\u2014is afraid to even ask that question, would You just give them courage to take one step toward somebody, who might help?\u2014one step toward a book\u2014one step of just of lifting\/bringing the light and hope into their world.\n\nI just ask that You would make them courageous. I have seen how You have rescued many by small acts of courage; and I just ask that these women, in faith, can do something small, knowing that You are on the move in <em>huge<\/em>  for them. We pray these things in Christ\u2019s name.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Amen.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Amen.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Amen.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Darby, thank you. Thanks for the conversation. Thanks for the book.\n\n<strong>Darby:<\/strong> Thank you.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We\u2019ve got copies of Darby\u2019s book, <em>Is It Abuse?<\/em>, in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. You can order the book from us, online; or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY to get your copy. Let me just suggest\u2014if you know someone, who is in a situation like this\u2014maybe, get a copy of this book and go through it with them; invite them over for lunch, and just a chapter at a time, go through this book together. Again, the title of the book\u2014<em>Is It Abuse?<\/em>\u2014by Darby Strickland. It\u2019s subtitle is <em>A  Guide to Identifying Domestic Abuse and Helping Victims <\/em>. Order, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to get your copy of Darby\u2019s book.\n\nYou know, we hear all the time from people who tell us that they are so grateful for FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>\u2014for the events we host, for the resources we make available, for our website, for this daily radio program\u2014and I just want to take a minute and say, \u201cThank you,\u201d to those of you who are, not just listeners to this program, but you are the people who make this program and all that we do at FamilyLife possible through your donations. Some of you are monthly Legacy Partners; thank you so much for that. Others of you will give a gift from time to time as the Lord leads, and we\u2019re so grateful for that as well.\n\nIn fact, if you are able to make a gift today, we\u2019d love to say, \u201cThank you,\u201d by sending you a copy of the book we talked about earlier this week with Marshall Segal\/his book called <em>Not Yet Married: Pursuing Joy in Singleness and Dating<\/em>. That may not be your circumstance; you may be happily married; but you may know somebody, who you\u2019d like to get this book for and pass it on to them. The book is our way of saying, \u201cThank you,\u201d when you make a donation to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. You can donate, online, at  or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY to donate. We just want to say, \u201cThanks,\u201d in advance, for your support. We\u2019re so grateful for it, and we look forward to hearing from you.\n\nWe hope you have a great weekend. Hope you and your family are able to worship together in your local church this weekend, and I hope you can join us back on Monday when you\u2019re going to meet a remarkable woman. Her name is Veneetha Risner. Veneetha has lived through a lot of trial\/a lot of challenge, and she\u2019ll share some of that with us on Monday. But you just\/you\u2019ll want to tune in to hear the joy in her voice, even with all the circumstances she\u2019s lived through; so I hope you can be here to meet her.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\nI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch. We got some extra help today from Bruce Goff; and of course, our entire broadcast production team was involved. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. Have a great weekend. We will see you back Monday for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\n<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLifeof  Rock, Arkansas; a Cru <sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\nWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\nCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2021 FamilyLife. All  reserved.\n\n<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:30:24"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["27.84M"],"filesize_raw":["29187493"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-306748.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-306748.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f 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do I help someone being abused? Darby Strickland talks about understanding the truth and walking in love with those in that situation.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Friday,  26 <sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are  and Ann Wilson; I\u2019m Bob Lepine. You can find us online at FamilyLifeToday.com. What if you\u2019re married to an oppressor? What do you do? We\u2019re going to talk today with Darby Strickland about that. Stay with us.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. Ann, I know you have talked to women throughout the years\u2014both in the church\/in your interaction with football wives\u2014at <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> getaways, women who have come up to you and have maybe been bold enough to say, \u201cThere is stuff happening in our marriage that I\u2019m uncomfortable with; I\u2019m being abused by my husband.\u201d In that moment, you find yourself going, \u201cWhat do I say? How do I help somebody in this immediate situation?\u201d What have you said in those situations?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> It is interesting; at the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em>, we have had a booklet, for years, that we put on the stage called \u201cA Way of Hope.\u201d We say up-front, \u201cWe\u2019re going to put these little pamphlets on the stage. If you know someone that is being abused in any way\u2014physically, domestically, spiritually\u2014pick this up.\u201d Almost every single time, all of those booklets are gone.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; Darby Strickland is joining us this week to help us think rightly about these things. Darby, welcome back.\n\n<strong>Darby:<\/strong> Thank you.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Darby has written a book called <em>Is It Abuse?<\/em>\n\nHave you had women come to you and say, \u201cHere is what\u2019s going on,\u201d and you\u2019ve smiled and said, \u201cOh, sweetheart, that\u2019s not abuse. That\u2019s\/what you\u2019ve got going on is just\u2014you just need to buck up and move on\u201d?\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cThat\u2019s marriage.\u201d [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Darby:<\/strong> I would say  I\u2019ve probably had one woman approach me out of the hundreds that I talk to that, not only was it just not abuse, but she was more angry and entitled than her husband was.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We think of that sometimes, where a wife will say, \u201cMy husband is so abusive; he\u2019s so controlling.\u201d What she is saying is: \u201cI don\u2019t get to do what I want.\u201d Well, I go, \u201cNone of us gets to what I want.\u201d\n\n<strong>Darby:<\/strong> Exactly.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So where is the line in emotional abuse?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I want to ask that, too; because probably more than any other statement that I hear, it\u2019s that: \u201cI am being emotionally abused.\u201d I don\u2019t always know; like: \u201cIs that emotional abuse?\u201d \u201cIs that normal?\u201d If somebody says that to me, do you think it usually is?\n\n<strong>Darby:<\/strong> I go with the premise that it is; then I am going to verify that. Again, I\u2019m just going to slow the person down; I\u2019m going to ask them a question. Maybe, they are reporting to me that their husband is ignoring them; so, then, I have to ask them a series of questions: \u201cHow long has he been ignoring you?\u201d \u201cWhat does that gain him when he ignores you? What effect does that have on you? How does that change your future behavior?\u201d \u201cWho repairs the relationship? When does that happen? What does that look like?\u201d \u201cCan you say to your husband, \u2018This hurts me\u2019? Does he receive your complaint?\u201d\n\nYou want to find out how a particular behavior functions in the relationship. It could just be that he\u2019s really stressed after work, and he needs a little down time. It could be that he is ignoring her to pull back because he\u2019s displeased, and he is trying to shape her behavior so she\u2019s performing in a way that he desires.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I was just  about a woman, whose husband didn\u2019t talk to her for two weeks. She was begging him: \u201cPlease talk to me. I don\u2019t know what\u2019s happening. I need you to talk to me.\u201d Finally, he said, \u201cI don\u2019t want you. I\u2019ve never wanted to be married to you, and I want a divorce.\u201d She\u2019s like, \u201cOkay; let\u2019s just do that.\u201d Then, they followed through with that; then, he came back the next day and said, \u201cI don\u2019t want a divorce. I don\u2019t know why I said that.\u201d\n\nThis has gone on, over and over and over, where he won\u2019t talk to her. He wants a divorce; and then he says, \u201cI\u2019m sorry I shouldn\u2019t have said that. I really don\u2019t want a divorce.\u201d She has no idea what to do. What would you say to that person?\n\n<strong>Darby:<\/strong> I would want to sit with her and say: \u201cWhat is he gaining when he is pulling away from you?\u201d and \u201cWhat happens when you are drawn back to him?\u201d \u201cIs he repenting?\u2014is he saying, \u2018I\u2019m sorry. I acknowledge, when I\u2019m saying this to you, I see the amount of damage that that does to you\u2019?\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; he does say that; but then it happens again, and again, and again.\n\n<strong>Darby:<\/strong> Yes; so then, we look at\u2014Scripture talks about: \u201cWe know a tree by its fruit.\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014difference between godly sorrow and worldly sorrow; right?\n\n<strong>Darby:<\/strong> Amen; amen.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is a common pattern with abuse and with oppressors. You use the term, \u201coppressor,\u201d as opposed to abuser in your book; but it is common for somebody, who is an oppressor or an abuser, to feel remorse pretty quickly after they\u2019ve been abusive\u2014and to be sorrowful for it, and then have a period of time where they reform their behavior\u2014and then they lapse back into it. Is that not a common pattern?\n\n<strong>Darby:<\/strong> Yes; and I would say that it\u2019s not that they lapse back into it; it\u2019s just they never really repented of the underlying attitude of entitlement. Actually, apology, and the contrition, and the gifts, and the sweet words are all a way of reestablishing control over that person. It\u2019s not so much that it is cyclical; it\u2019s that the form of control changes.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> When somebody does come back, and appears contrite and sorrowful, what should her response to that contrition be?\n\n<strong>Darby:<\/strong> Well, I think the first is for her to do a good job listening\u2014and to invite somebody in, who is wiser, who can listen more objectively\u2014\u201cIs the contrition\/is the sorrow for themselves for how their world is being disrupted\/for the consequences they are facing for their own embarrassment?\u201d or \u201cAre they saying, \u2018I\u2019m really panicked that I could do this, and be this way, and I want to get help\u2019?\u201d\n\nAre they naming their specific sins\u2014a lot of them in detail\/ in concrete\u2014saying, \u201cThis is the way I am going to walk out repentance. I\u2019m not\u2014I promise that I\u2019m not going to interrupt you anymore.\u201d That\u2019s nice; but then, how does that play out?\u2014does he really stop interrupting her? There are words; and even sometimes, the words are very insufficient when we measure them against what Scripture requires for repentance; but then there also has to be fruit. That should be sustained long-term fruit.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> If there is no fruit, when do you tell her or encourage her\u2014it\u2019s going to be her decision\u2014\u201cThis is ain\u2019t changing, girlfriend. It\u2019s time to take action.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I\u2019ll add this too, Dave; because this person that I was talking about\u2014I would say, \u201cWhen you say to him, \u2018We need to get help; we need counseling,\u2019\u2014he\u2019ll say, \u2018Yes; we\u2019ll do that\u2019; but then it never happens. He\u2019ll never go through with that.\u201d Is that a sign too?\n\n<strong>Darby:<\/strong> Sure, that\u2019s somebody who is really not committed to changing.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Okay.\n\n<strong>Darby:<\/strong> Those are the types of things I like to say: \u201cWhat are you looking for?\u201d So, ahead of her receiving the apology\u2014or maybe she\u2019s had an apology before, but then the actions didn\u2019t happen\u2014I\u2019d say, \u201cLet\u2019s just brainstorm together. What would real repentance look like here? What change should you start to see happen?\u201d I mean, it\u2019s good\u2014we want to see somebody inching along\u2014but not when it\u2019s one step forward and two steps back into abuse.\n\nAgain, I often have to remind women of how they were treated; they don\u2019t remember. That\u2019s what\u2019s really hard. I will serve as the timeline; and I\u2019ll say, \u201cSix months ago, when you had to leave because he was following you around the house, the children were scared; and you spent the night at your mom\u2019s. He felt like you abandoned him.\u201d \u201cOh, right.\u201d \u201cWe\u2019re hearing the same language that we were hearing then. Do you remember eight months ago?\u201d They just don\u2019t have the capacity to hold all those horrible truths together. Sometimes, it\u2019s creating a pattern.\n\nBut also, I say, \u201cWhat has to happen for you to do something? What has to happen for you to tell the pastor?\u201d and \u201cWhen do you think you need to make the next step?\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Next step commonly is going to involve bringing other people\u2014this is\n\nMatthew 18\u2014we bring two or three witnesses into the conversation?\n\n<strong>Darby:<\/strong> In a sense\u2014right?\u2014Matthew 18; she\u2019s probably already told him dozens of times; right?\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Darby:<\/strong> Ideally, we want to bring somebody else in; but it has to be safe. Sometimes, we need to extract her\u2014she has to separate, and she has to flee\u2014then we have that confrontation. By doing a safety assessment, or working with the victim and finding out her level of safety\u2014we can\u2019t just go and say, \u201cThis person is behaving in an oppressive way, and we\u2019re going to come and confront him,\u201d\u2014because oftentimes, her life is made miserable.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is really  Explain what is going on here, and why it is so critical, and how you can make sure there is safety before you bring somebody else in.\n\n<strong>Darby:<\/strong>  so in my book\/in the back of my book is the domestic violence hotline; you can do a safety assessment. There are certain behaviors that you are looking for if someone is being stalked or strangled\u2014there has been sexual abuse or certain things that put women at a higher risk\u2014you want to know what those are; \u201cHas the violence been increasing in intensity or in frequency?\u201d\n\nAnytime a woman leaves, or is planning to leave, she is in the most danger\u2014right?\u2014because that\u2019s when I\u2019m [oppressor] going to amp up my\u2014\u201cI can\u2019t control, so I\u2019m going to escalate the violence,\u201d\u2014even if I\u2019ve not been violent before. I think that is something that we don\u2019t understand.\n\nI counseled a woman, in particular; her husband was extremely controlling and cruel to the point, where she couldn\u2019t have five dollars in her wallet. Every trek was premade; she was monitored. He was <em>never<\/em> physically abusive. She started talking about separation. Within two weeks, she had a gun pointed at her. He had never\u2014so we often think there is this progression.\n\nWe  want to work with experts. If we have a friend, and we\u2019re not sure this person is dangerous, call the hotline with them; invite an expert in. You don\u2019t know a lot. What you don\u2019t know can really put someone in danger.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So  tell me you have success stories. I\u2019m sitting here, listening, like, \u201cPlease tell me there is success; you\u2019ve seen God show up and do miracles.\u201d\n\n<strong>Darby:<\/strong> God shows up and does miracles. It depends on what we define as success. If I have a woman, who has children\/female children in her home, who are no longer watching her being abused, that\u2019s success. Those children now know what a godly husband should look like; that\u2019s success. They don\u2019t leave the church in their early 20s, because of the hypocrisy; that\u2019s success. If I see a woman reconnecting with the Lord\u2014because she knows her worth in Him; and she knows who she is, whether or not that marriage survives or not\u2014that\u2019s success.\n\nOppressors are hard to change; they have their world the way they want it. What would propel them to make things different?\u2014it\u2019s not likely. It can happen\u2014that\u2019s the great thing about it\u2014the Holy Spirit can do anything at any time, and we root for that. But I just tell the victims what success is: \u201c\u2026is glorifying God in your life, before your children, and knowing who you are in Christ.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That is good.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I mean, what a great, great answer.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You  \u201cOppressors\u2026it\u2019s hard for them to change.\u201d\n\n<strong>Darby:<\/strong> Sure,  drives an oppressor is they have a heart that is entitled; they want things the way they want them. They believe that they are right; they blame shift. They don\u2019t have insight that they are sinners; they make rules that don\u2019t apply to them.\n\nI\u2019ve had women tell me: \u201cI have to stir my tea a certain way,\u201d \u201cI have to load the dishwasher a certain way,\u201d \u201cI can only wear this hairstyle\u201d; or there will just be these cruel things happening. If you think about\u2014\u201cIf I get to have, as a spouse: \u2018I get to have all the latest technology,\u2019 \u2018I get to eat all the foods that I want,\u2019 \u2018I get to reap all the benefits, but I don\u2019t have to do the hard work of maintaining the home,\u2019\u201d\u2014I say, \u201cOppressors usurp God\u2019s position.\u201d\n\nThey really demand to be worshipped. When they replace themselves as the center\u2014which everyone has to revolve around\u2014they don\u2019t have anything externally referential that they defer to authority-wise: they don\u2019t have insight that what they believe is wrong; they feel self-righteous; they don\u2019t have a need for Christ; they are really in a very dangerous spiritual position.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I mean, I looked at what you wrote in your book, these six beliefs. You sort of said\u2014let me read them. These are scary, because I think we can see them in ourselves; like, \u201cIf we\u2019re not careful\u2026\u201d\n\n<strong>Darby:<\/strong> We\u2019re all entitled; right? But the difference between you and me, I\u2019d like to think\u2014I mean, an oppressor\u2014is when someone confronts me about my sin, I\u2019m sorrowful; I\u2019m broken; it bothers me. Maybe, they have to confront me more than once; but I have empathy for the other person. I want to be pleasing to the Lord; I\u2019m influence-able, and I know I have a need of Jesus.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> That\u2019s big. Here they are; maybe, there is one of these you want to talk\u2014\n\n<strong>Darby:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014or several:\n\nKey belief number one: \u201cIt\u2019s all about me.\u201d\n\nKey belief  two: \u201cYou need to listen only to me.\u201d\n\nNumber three: \u201cRules are not for me to follow; they are to keep me happy.\u201d\n\n\u201cMy anger is justified.\u201d\n\n\u201cOther people attack me.\u201d\n\nThe last one is: \u201cI don\u2019t have to appreciate what you do, but I demand that you appreciate what I do.\u201d\n\n<strong>Darby:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> In some ways, we have that sin bent in us; but when it gets out of control, it\u2019s dominating; right? You become the oppressor.\n\n<strong>Darby:<\/strong>  it becomes toxic. It becomes the ruling force when it becomes a closed system; that\u2019s when it becomes oppressive.\n\nYou think: \u201cYou and I only have to listen to me\u201d; right? We can see it in an abusive argument, where some is constantly interrupted: they are mocked; their eyes are rolling. Or an argument hits a certain dead point; but then, the oppressor is following the abused woman around the house: \u201cI will be heard\u201d; right? That\u2019s how those things become toxic and damaging.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Well, it\u2019s interesting, too, Darby; because as we\u2019re talking about this oppressor, they are kind of\u2014it sounds slimy\u2014it\u2019s like this Lifetime movie kind of guy; you know?\n\n I know that there was a couple that we knew\u2014we were friends with them\u2014he was the <em>nicest<\/em> guy, and she was coming to my Bible study. One week, she came. She had on sunglasses; and we\u2019re like, \u201cWhat\u2019s up?\u201d She said, \u201cOh, I have an infection in my eye. It looks super gross. I don\u2019t want anybody to see.\u201d I was only in my 20s, and I just\/I didn\u2019t think about anything more than that.\n\nLater, they moved away; and it was in the paper that she left him, because he was physically abusive to her. I was <em>shocked<\/em>; because I thought,  Nicest guy ever.\u201d Can that be typical?\n\n<strong>Darby:<\/strong> That is typical. Right; if oppressors want the world to revolve around them, they want everyone on the outside to think that they are wonderful. Typically, they are the best deacon. A man that I knew: he would do every airport run you could; he\u2019d take kids to Philly games; he just did all these outward works, where he was adored on the outside world; but the private life of an oppressor stands in great contrast to the public life.\n\nThat\u2019s what makes it so difficult for us is, again, we\u2019re being asked to believe something that doesn\u2019t match up with our experience of this person. That\u2019s why women have a hard time coming forward: \u201cWho would believe me?\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Right; and then you can take Scripture, like, 1 Peter 3, \u201cLikewise, wives be subject to your own husband so that even if some do not obey the word, they may be won without a word by the conduct of their wives.\u201d I\u2019ve used that Scripture a lot for women who are married to men who are not believers: \u201cYou just live that out. You just show them what it looks like to be a believer.\u201d Yet, I wonder, sometimes, if women are bearing some of the things that they are going through.\n\n<strong>Darby:<\/strong> Yes; if you  about an oppressor, he\u2019s about his entitlements. If you tell a woman the way to win her husband over is to serve those needs\u2014right?\u2014his needs are going to be ever increasing. There is nothing that she can do that he is ever going to be satisfied.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Is an oppressor a narcissist? Are all narcissists oppressors? Are all oppressors narcissists?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong>  a good question.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes?\n\n<strong>Darby:<\/strong> I wouldn\u2019t go that far. There are very close cousins\u2014right?\u2014so there tends to be overlap.\n\nWhat I <em>would<\/em> say is that there is never an excuse to oppress, whether you have a narcissistic diagnosis or alcoholism. It is behavior driven; those are behavior choices about who to put in the center of the relationship\u2014it\u2019s not the Lord, and you are not serving Him if it\u2019s all about you\u2014and \u201cI\u2019m going to punish you\u201d\u2014right?\u2014that\u2019s more than narcissism.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> What  a guy do if he thinks or senses that one of his buddies is one of these oppressors?\n\n<strong>Darby:<\/strong> Yes; two things actually. One, you want to enlist your wife to pursue that woman. You want to just say to her, \u201cJust keep pursuing her.\u201d\n\nThen I think it\u2019s really helpful\u2014men often think they shouldn\u2019t talk to women, who are being oppressed\u2014but I think pastors and elders, once it comes out, it\u2019s so vital for a pastor to say to a victim, \u201cI see what\u2019s happening to you; it\u2019s wrong. This goes against God\u2019s Word and against His creation of marriage. It grieves me.\u201d Women make so much more progress when their male leaders say to them, \u201cI\u2019m broken with you, and this is not okay.\u201d\n\nWith that said, you\u2019re asking me, \u201cHow do you pursue these men?\u201d Again, \u201cIs it safe?\u201d You might pursue them in low-level discipleship: \u201cHey, I see your kids; it looks like they are struggling in Sunday school.\u201d Build a relationship; go after something else. Create a value for that gentleman that you love on him\/that you want to see him do well in the Lord; and then, hopefully over time, as things come forward, you have nurtured a relationship, where you can speak hard things. But if you speak hard things directly, you could be putting her in danger; they might never come back to church. You really want to be thinking about <em>her<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Well, I just want to add this, too\u2014any women that are listening to this, and their hearts are beating; they are starting to wonder, like, \u201cI\u2019m going through this,\u201d\u2014I want to remind you that: \u201cGod loves you; God sees you; you are an image-bearer. Maybe, you feel like you <em>deserve<\/em> some of this that\u2019s going on; and you <em>don\u2019t<\/em>. That was never what God intended for you, because He loves you.\u201d\n\nDarby, would you say\/add anything else to that?\n\n<strong>Darby:<\/strong> I would say one thing is\u2014God promises a rescue\u2014we, often, in the church think that Christ came for our sin.\n\nWe think about God introducing Himself to the people in Exodus; He says, \u201cI have heard the cries of my people, and I have come to deliver you from the hands of your oppressors.\u201d His rescue is also when we are being sinned against. Other people sinning against us matters to Him. It moved Christ, and that was His opening words of His ministry: \u201cI\u2019ve come to free the oppressed.\u201d So, yes; you probably don\u2019t feel heard. Open a Psalm; it says, \u201cI don\u2019t feel heard.\u201d Believe that He is coming with a rescue.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s good.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> There is a part of me that thinks, \u201cYou\u2019ve got to put your hand up in the water; because somebody, maybe, doesn\u2019t see you are drowning. Put your hand up so the people of God can come and be the rescue of God.\u201d\n\n<strong>Darby:<\/strong> I say: \u201cGo to someone and ask a question. If you don\u2019t get a good answer\/if they are not drawing you out, trying to find out more of your story, find somebody else.\u201d \u201cBring them a book on domestic abuse and ask a good friend, \u2018Would you read this, so you can help me?\u2019\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I don\u2019t  do you know a good book on domestic abuse?\n\n<strong>Darby:<\/strong> I\u2019m favorable to <em>one<\/em>. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This has been very helpful. I\u2019m imagining, as you said, there are people who\u2019s hearts are beating faster\/people, who are recognizing, \u201cThey are talking about my story; I don\u2019t know what to do with it; I don\u2019t know if I feel safe talking to anybody.\u201d I just think we need to pray\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; me too.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014for those people. Would you pray for them?\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>Darby:<\/strong>\n\nOh, Father God, I do\/I know You have a heart for victims, that You see them. Your heart is moved by the pain that they are in, and Your Word is clear; it hates sin. It seeks to drive out sin, and it seeks to protect the vulnerable.\n\nFor any woman here, listening, that feels vulnerable, that feels afraid of their spouse, that is confused\u2014\u201cIs this my story?\u201d\u2014is afraid to even ask that question, would You just give them courage to take one step toward somebody, who might help?\u2014one step toward a book\u2014one step of just of lifting\/bringing the light and hope into their world.\n\nI just ask that You would make them courageous. I have seen how You have rescued many by small acts of courage; and I just ask that these women, in faith, can do something small, knowing that You are on the move in <em>huge<\/em>  for them. We pray these things in Christ\u2019s name.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Amen.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Amen.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Amen.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Darby, thank you. Thanks for the conversation. Thanks for the book.\n\n<strong>Darby:<\/strong> Thank you.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We\u2019ve got copies of Darby\u2019s book, <em>Is It Abuse?<\/em>, in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. You can order the book from us, online; or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY to get your copy. Let me just suggest\u2014if you know someone, who is in a situation like this\u2014maybe, get a copy of this book and go through it with them; invite them over for lunch, and just a chapter at a time, go through this book together. Again, the title of the book\u2014<em>Is It Abuse?<\/em>\u2014by Darby Strickland. It\u2019s subtitle is <em>A  Guide to Identifying Domestic Abuse and Helping Victims <\/em>. Order, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to get your copy of Darby\u2019s book.\n\nYou know, we hear all the time from people who tell us that they are so grateful for FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>\u2014for the events we host, for the resources we make available, for our website, for this daily radio program\u2014and I just want to take a minute and say, \u201cThank you,\u201d to those of you who are, not just listeners to this program, but you are the people who make this program and all that we do at FamilyLife possible through your donations. Some of you are monthly Legacy Partners; thank you so much for that. Others of you will give a gift from time to time as the Lord leads, and we\u2019re so grateful for that as well.\n\nIn fact, if you are able to make a gift today, we\u2019d love to say, \u201cThank you,\u201d by sending you a copy of the book we talked about earlier this week with Marshall Segal\/his book called <em>Not Yet Married: Pursuing Joy in Singleness and Dating<\/em>. That may not be your circumstance; you may be happily married; but you may know somebody, who you\u2019d like to get this book for and pass it on to them. The book is our way of saying, \u201cThank you,\u201d when you make a donation to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. You can donate, online, at  or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY to donate. We just want to say, \u201cThanks,\u201d in advance, for your support. We\u2019re so grateful for it, and we look forward to hearing from you.\n\nWe hope you have a great weekend. Hope you and your family are able to worship together in your local church this weekend, and I hope you can join us back on Monday when you\u2019re going to meet a remarkable woman. Her name is Veneetha Risner. Veneetha has lived through a lot of trial\/a lot of challenge, and she\u2019ll share some of that with us on Monday. But you just\/you\u2019ll want to tune in to hear the joy in her voice, even with all the circumstances she\u2019s lived through; so I hope you can be here to meet her.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\nI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch. We got some extra help today from Bruce Goff; and of course, our entire broadcast production team was involved. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. Have a great weekend. We will see you back Monday for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\n<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLifeof  Rock, Arkansas; a Cru <sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\nWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\nCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2021 FamilyLife. 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