{"id":306745,"date":"2021-02-24T07:00:04","date_gmt":"2021-02-24T12:00:04","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/dating-done-right\/"},"modified":"2021-02-24T07:00:04","modified_gmt":"2021-02-24T12:00:04","slug":"dating-done-right","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/dating-done-right\/","title":{"rendered":"Dating Done Right"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>Marshall Segal talks to singles about the purpose of dating. Segal, who admits to having his share of dating regrets before finally meeting and marrying his wife, encourages singles to slow down and thoroughly get to know the person they are interested in. Singles should try and enfold the person into their community of family and friends, and plan activities they can do in a group setting.<\/p>\n<p>Show Notes and Resources<\/p>\n<p> \tBonus Audio: How parents can prepare their kids for a season of singleness.\u00a0 http:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2021-02-24-bonus.mp3<br \/>\n \tDownload FamilyLife&#8217;s new app! https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/app\/<br \/>\n \tFind resources from this podcast at https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/Products.aspx?categoryid=130.<br \/>\n \tCheck out all that&#8217;s available on the FamilyLife Podcast Network.\u00a0 https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/familylife-podcast-network\/<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Marshall Segal talks to singles about the purpose of dating. Segal encourages singles to slow down and thoroughly get to know the person they are interested in.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2021-02-24.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:30:01","filesize":"27.48M","filesize_raw":"28816529","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2817,2867,2822],"tags":[2644],"podcast_series":[8265],"cwp_profile":[9518],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-306745","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-choosing-a-spouse","category-church-involvement","category-growing-in-your-faith","tag-singleness","podcast_series-not-yet-married","cwp_profile-marshall-segal","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/306745\/dating-done-right","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/306745\/dating-done-right","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"En6ld31ZEr\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/dating-done-right\/\">Dating Done Right<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/dating-done-right\/embed\/#?secret=En6ld31ZEr\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Dating Done Right&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"En6ld31ZEr\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":[""],"audio_file":["https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2021-02-24.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Wednesday, February 24<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are and Ann Wilson; I'm Bob Lepine. You can find us online at FamilyLifeToday.com. So what do you do, as a single young man, attempting to define a relationship, only to find out that where the relationship is going is not where you thought it ought to be going? We\u2019re going to hear more about that today from Marshall Segal. Stay with us.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. for joining us. So you know what the path is today\u2014from meet and fall in love to marriage. Here\u2019s the path\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I want to hear this.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014you meet; you date; you have sex; you think, \u201cThis might be the one\u201d; you have kids; you move in together; you get married.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think you missed one of\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> What did I miss?\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I know what she\u2019s going to say.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You meet; you have sex; you <em>determine<\/em> if you want to date.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Oh,\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think that\u2019s very true today.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And here is the thing\u2014there are people, who grow up <em>today<\/em> in the church, and \u201cThat is how it is supposed to work.\u201d We\u2019re here to say, \u201cThat\u2019s <em>not<\/em> the God has outlined.\u201d\n\nMarshall Segal is joining us, again, this week to talk about this. Marshall, welcome back.\n\n<strong>Marshall:<\/strong> Thanks for having me again.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Marshall\u2019s written a book called <em>Not Yet Married<\/em>. We\u2019ve already explained why that\u2019s an acceptable title for his book, and he is a writer and managing editor at DesiringGod.org.\n\nLet\u2019s say we\u2019re talking today to somebody, who has just gone out last night on a date with somebody; and they had a nice time. They are thinking, \u201cYou know, I\u2014it would be nice to go out again; and maybe\u201d\u2014just in the back of their mind\u2014\u201cmaybe, there\u2019s something here. I\u2019d kind of like there to be something here. I <em>think<\/em>, but I don\u2019t know them well enough.\u201d You\u2019re coaching them to get from where they are to where they\u2019d like to go. So, Coach, what\u2019s the next play you\u2019re going to call for this couple?\n\n<strong>Marshall:<\/strong> Yes; I have questions about how they met in the first place. [Laughter] My main questions would be around: \u201cHow much do you know of this person, already, before you enter a relationship?\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Is that important to know before you go out?\n\n<strong>Marshall:<\/strong> I think so. I mean, I would say I would want to <em>way<\/em> slow down any in terms of a romantic relationship until you\u2019ve had an opportunity to get to know this person. If it were me counseling a particular person in my life or in my church, I would want them to be as creative and intentional as possible to try to fold that person into community\u2014so it\u2019s not just: \u201cWe went out on a date. We had a good time. We\u2019re going to do a second one\u201d; \u201cThe second one went well. We\u2019re going to do a third one,\u201d\u2014 all of this is in the context of a one on one, <em>totally<\/em> isolated from any other meaningful relationship.\n\nI want to encourage them: \u201cFind ways\u2014as awkward as it might feel today\u2014find ways to fold them into some meaningful community within your life or in their life.\u201d If they are believers\u2014and they have a solid family, and church community, and friend group\u2014find ways to be able to get to know each other in less-pressured situations than one-on-one dates.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And to start to do activities, together, but in a bigger group setting?\n\n<strong>Marshall:<\/strong> Yes; or I would just say, \u201c\u2026at least, with other people.\u201d\n\nI know this can be tricky. I\u2019m not pretending this is\u2014I mean, I\u2019ve been through this kind of process in the past in relationships. It\u2019s <em>not<\/em> easy; it can be awkward. But hopefully, the kind of person you are dating\u2014and maybe, one day will marry\u2014will respect the fact that you are saying: \u201cI don\u2019t know you very well yet. I think the most important step here, in terms, of determining whether God might be doing something here is for us to get to know each other a little bit. I <em>want<\/em> to get to know you.\u201d That\u2019s an honor\u2014to have someone want to get to know you\u2014\u201cI want to do it in ways that <em>honor<\/em> you.\u201d\n\ndid this with Faye. We\u2019re 28\/29; she\u2019s from California. Nothing is more awkward than trying to fold somebody in, long-distance; but we prioritized <em>every<\/em> single trip. We spent as <em>much<\/em> time as possible with the most important people in each other\u2019s lives. We <em>planned<\/em> it out beforehand: \u201cWe\u2019re going to spend time with my best friend, with my parents, with those people that I\u2019m doing ministry with. She\u2019s going to come to small group,\u201d\u2014but just thinking, intentionally, and talking, intentionally, how to fold other people in the community.\n\nThe principle that I came to in writing the book is\u2014I want to encourage someone, generally: \u201cPursue clarity and postpone intimacy.\u201d That\u2019s the main principle I want to talk about. I talk about how intimacy is safest in the context of marriage; and marriage is going to be safest in the context of clarity. If you are wanting to pursue intimacy with this person, the <em>best<\/em> thing you can do is pursue clarity about whether God is calling you to marry this person.\n\nI think a <em>lot<\/em> of people\u2014myself included\u2014pursued clarity by diving into intimacy: \u201cLet\u2019s try it, and see how it feels.\u201d I talk about thinking that it\u2019s like a bicycle\u2014so you just pick up a bicycle, and you don\u2019t know how to ride it\u2014and no one is going to coach you through this. You just keep getting on the bike until: \u201cOh, I stayed up! So now, I can get married.\u201d\n\nI in the book\u2014more like flying an airplane, which I don\u2019t have any experience with\u2014[Laughter]\u2014but if you look through the process of what becoming a pilot is, you do <em>so much<\/em> before you ever actually sit in the seat. I want people to think about dating and the pursuit of marriage that way\u2014more that there are intentional steps\u2014this pilot knows, \u201cI want to fly a plane; like I\u2019m not doing any of these classes or this training for something else. It\u2019s not preparing me for anything else.\u201d\n\nIt\u2019s preparing me for marriage; but thinking about small steps to pursue clarity, to get to know each other, and to postpone intimacy as much as possible. I think folding other people into community and, then, being aware of: how much time we spend together\/what kinds of things we talk about\u2014being sensitive to\u2014like, \u201cOh, that\u2019s intimate.\u201d I don\u2019t think you should be talking about what marriage might be like on your second or third date.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Marshall:<\/strong> I just think that\u2019s inappropriate.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Can you talk about: \u201cThis is what I\u2019m looking for\u201d? Do you go into that kind of conversation?\n\n<strong>Marshall:<\/strong> I think you can have that conversation. I\u2019m not sure how helpful it is on a first, or second, or third date. I would be a lot more focused on: \u201cWho are <em>you<\/em>?\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Marshall:<\/strong> \u201cWhat do you <em>love<\/em>?\u201d \u201cWhat do you your time <em>doing<\/em>?\u201d \u201cWho are the most important people in your life?\u201d I can think of a <em>thousand<\/em> questions that I would ask <em>before<\/em>\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Marshall:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cWhat are you looking and \u201cDo I\u2014\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cmeasure up?\u201d\n\n<strong>Marshall:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cmeasure up?\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, would you declare, as a guy, on a second or third day\u2014would you say to somebody: \u201cI just want you to know, from an intentionality standpoint, I\u2019m not recreationally dating. I am dating with marriage as a potentiality, not an inevitability; but this\u2014I\u2019d like to pursue this <em>seriously<\/em> rather than casually\u201d?\n\n<strong>Marshall:<\/strong> Absolutely; I say first date, and I would say it doesn\u2019t have to be this major declaration of independence. I\u2019d just say: \u201cI\u2019d like to get to know you better. Any dating I do is for the purpose of discovering who God might call me to marry. That doesn\u2019t mean we have to get married, because we go on a date. It just means that I want you to know, from the outset, I\u2019m pursuing clarity toward whether God will call me to marry you or not.\u201d\n\nWe dated for 19 months; so it\u2019s not like that process happens in 4 weeks, or 6 weeks, or 2 months. In fact, I think some people need to take <em>more<\/em> time, because they rush into engagement and marriage <em>before<\/em> they\u2019ve really had a chance to get to know each other.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I do like this idea, because you are really becoming <em>friends<\/em>. So much of marriage is about friendship, and being together, and liking each other\u2019s company, and having fun together. That\u2019s not always the case when you\u2019re dating\u2014it\u2019s so romantic, and it feels a little delusional in some ways.\n\n<strong>Marshall:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yet, I think about Dave and [me]\u2014he is my <em>best<\/em> friend.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> We had the <em>perfect<\/em> dating relationship.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> We sure didn\u2019t. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Marshall:<\/strong> You should write a book.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> There\u2019s nobody better than <em>me<\/em>\u2014right here. I\u2019m the <em>best<\/em>\u2014no. [Laughter]\n\nBut I do want to ask you this, because you\u2019re talking about the community\/friend thing. Then, everything you are talking about now\u2014you\u2019re sort of alone. What is the balance?\n\nBecause I know me\u2014I would be pulling her away. Although I know that, if I\u2019m with Ann with a group, I\u2019d get to see all those things you are looking for\u2014I\u2019d see that probably better in community\u2014but then, it requires some real time, where I\u2019m not with my friends\u2014we\u2019re looking, eye to eye, and I\u2019m saying: \u201cI want to get to know your heart. I want to know your passion for Christ.\u201d How do you balance that?\n\n<strong>Marshall:<\/strong> Yes; if I had a daughter\u2014I don\u2019t have a daughter\u2014if you were talking that way, on a second date, to my daughter, I would say: \u201cBrother, slow down! [Laughter] You <em>don\u2019t<\/em> need to look at her that way\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> My dad was saying that too.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Marshall:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cor talk to her that way.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You know what her dad said to me?\n\n<strong>Marshall:<\/strong> \u201cI know you\u2019re eager. I can <em>see<\/em> that you the Lord, and I\u2019m thankful. I see all kinds of grace on you.\u201d [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> did her dad say to you? [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Her dad didn\u2019t say it <em>to me<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> What did he say?\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> He said it to Ann <em>about<\/em> me.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> He said\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cYou will not date that boy. He is <em>barred<\/em> from the house.\u201d He was my coach.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014so he <em>knew<\/em> your reputation.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> He knew my before-Christ life. If I\u2019m that dad, I\u2019d say the same thing: \u201cStay away from Dave Wilson.\u201d\n\nObviously, Christ had changed me; but I can remember, early in the relationship, feeling like, \u201cI\u2019m falling in love with her,\u201d and starting to think about marriage. I say to her\u2014in her parents\u2019 driveway, as I\u2019m dropping her off at night\u2014I said: \u201cI think I\u2019m falling in love with you. I don\u2019t\u2019 know what to do with these feelings. I want to talk about marriage. I\u2019d like to kiss you. I\u2019m not going to, but I\u2019m just being honest.\u201d\n\nThe [Ann] says: \u201cHey, why don\u2019t we just give it to God and trust Him and be friends? Let\u2019s not put anything on it besides let\u2019s pursue Christ together, as a friendship.\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cThere\u2019s the maturity that I didn\u2019t have.\u201d We prayed and offered it to Him. All the stress went away\u2014it was like: \u201cOkay; let\u2019s be friends. Let\u2019s get to know each other. Let\u2019s get to know our relationship with God together and see where it goes.\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That\u2019s what I call the Tommy Nelson Principle\u2014you\u2019ve heard this quote before. The first person I heard it from was a pastor in Denton, Texas, Tommy Nelson, who said: \u201cIf you\u2019re single, your job is to run as hard and as fast toward Jesus as you can. If, while you\u2019re running, you see someone, out of the corner of your eye, running in the same direction, at the same speed, take a second look.\u201d That\u2019s just <em>great<\/em> advice for\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014singles, who are in process.\n\nBut if you have moved along in the process, to where you\u2019re starting to think, \u201cOkay; this could be the one,\u201d\u2014I talked to one young man, who said, \u201cThe girl I was dating thought I must not like her, because I was trying to maintain physical purity. I was not putting moves on her, and she was feeling insecure and feeling unloved; because she\u2019d never been out with a guy who didn\u2019t do that.\u201d\n\nShould a guy, verbalize: \u201cHere are my boundaries and standards. Here\u2019s how I am going to try and handle that with you,\u201d to put her mind at ease?\n\n<strong>Marshall:<\/strong> Oh, absolutely. The problem with that situation is communication\u2014it\u2019s not the boundary; it\u2019s not the self-control\u2014you <em>cannot<\/em> be too self-controlled in dating. [Laughter] I have yet to meet a couple, where I thought: \u201cYou know what? You could go a little further,\u201d\u2014[Laughter]\u2014it just doesn\u2019t happen.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Marshall:<\/strong> And you won\u2019t regret\u2014I\u2019ve said a lot of times\u2014you won\u2019t regret <em>anything<\/em> you didn\u2019t do you got married\u2014 <em>anything<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Good.\n\n<strong>Marshall:<\/strong> I just want to encourage guys, in particular: \u201cBe the primary initiator of communication.\u201d I don\u2019t think\u2014generally speaking, I don\u2019t think a girl should ever wonder what a guy is thinking, or feeling, or doing in a relationship.\n\nNow, when you had the impulse to say\u2014\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u201cI love\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Marshall:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cI\u2019m falling in love with you,\u201d\u2014\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Marshall:<\/strong> \u2014on whatever date\u2014\u201cand I want to kiss you,\u201d\u2014my counsel to you would be: \u201cThere is a way to communicate that that\u2019s not making her so vulnerable\u201d; but to express where you were\u2014in some way, shape, or form\u2014to say, \u201cI like you.\u201d\n\nThat\u2019s where Faye and I were for a long time, where I\u2019m saying: \u201cI like you. I want to pursue you\u201d; and she\u2019s saying, \u201cNo, thank you,\u201d over, and over, and over again.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Did she?\n\n<strong>Marshall:<\/strong> Yes, over and over; yes\u2014six months of pursuit, where I was very interested; and she was cool\u2014I talk about it in the book.\n\nWe got to a point, where we sat down; it was our first official date. She won\u2019t call it a date, but it was the two of us having coffee. I laid out my feelings for her, and I was feeling confident about it. Things were going well\u2014we were talking on the phone once a week or so for 30 minutes. It was going super well\u2014the date went <em>great<\/em>. I thought, \u201cShe\u2019s to say, \u2018Yes, I would like to be pursued by you.\u2019\u201d I said: \u201cI\u2019m really enjoying getting to know you. I like you; I\u2019d like to pursue you toward marriage.\u201d She said: \u201cI\u2019ve also been enjoying getting to know you. I\u2019ve really enjoyed our conversations.\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cThis is good.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; \u201cIt\u2019s good.\u201d [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Marshall:<\/strong> She said, \u201cYou\u2019re a very nice human being.\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Oh!\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014\u201chuman being.\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I hear where this is going.\n\n<strong>Marshall:<\/strong> I\u2019m like, \u201cWhat does that <em>mean<\/em>?\u2014[Laughter and sound of a bomb exploding]\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Marshall:<\/strong> \u2014\u201c\u2019You\u2019re a nice human being\u2019?\u201d She said, \u201cBut when I think about a relationship, my heart is cold.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh! How did you just not turn away?!\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Really?\n\n<strong>Marshall:<\/strong> So, it was an awkward awkward pause. My wife is <em>very<\/em> honest\u2014let\u2019s say it that way.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I guess. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Marshall:<\/strong> She\u2019s very honest, and I <em>love<\/em> it about her. awkward pause\u2014and I say, \u201cAre we talking ice cold or\u2014[Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u201cSo you\u2019re saying there is a chance!\u201d\n\n<strong>Marshall:<\/strong> \u2014\u201clukewarm?\u201d She said, \u201cCold.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Whoa.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Wow.\n\n<strong>Marshall:<\/strong> That was essentially the end of that conversation; it was still friendly. She was visiting a family member in Minnesota, so we ended up spending a little bit of time together the next day. She largely acted normal. I just figured, \u201cThat\u2019s the end.\u201d Two weeks go by, I don\u2019t call; and then, <em>she<\/em> reaches out to me and says, \u201cHey, you haven\u2019t called.\u201d I said, \u201cYes; you\u2019ve\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u201cYour heart is cold.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cYou said\u2014the phone\u2014\n\n<strong>Marshall:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cyou made it very clear where you were.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cI can\u2019t pick the phone up when it\u2019s ice.\u201d\n\n<strong>Marshall:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cand it\u2019s so cold.\u201d She said: \u201cOh, I just wanted to let you know I wasn\u2019t ready to be in a relationship right now. Like, I would still love to be friends. If that means you don\u2019t want to call anymore, I totally understand.\u201d\n\nI back and prayed about that; and I just thought: \u201cYou know, I\u2019m not in a hurry to rush off anywhere else. I really <em>admire<\/em> this woman.\u201d So, I did\u2014I called, and we talked for 30 to 40 minutes once a week for <em>months<\/em>. I mean, never more than that; and that was the purpose. I said, from the beginning, \u201cUnless we\u2019re going to get in a relationship, it\u2019s not going to be more than this; but we\u2019re going to limit it to 30 to 40 minutes.\u201d\n\nWe largely just talked about ways we could pray for each other. Each conversation started with checking in on things that we prayed for last time or that we asked for prayer for last time. We never prayed together on the phone, at that time. Then, it ended with, \u201cHow can I pray for you this week?\u201d We just talked about a lot of things going on in our lives, and the Lord just knit our hearts together as <em>friends<\/em> in that time.\n\nI love it\u2014I mean, I look back\u2014and that moment was awkward\u2014I was really surprised; but when I look back on it now, it preserved a period of six months for us to be <em>friends<\/em>. We put boundaries in place to make sure it wasn\u2019t more than that. I knew, along the way, that if my heart was saying, \u201cIf this doesn\u2019t become a relationship, then it\u2019s a stumbling block for me. I need to get out of that relationship.\u201d She knew that.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So I want to ask you about a scenario\u2014\n\n<strong>Marshall:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014and just get your take on this. I was talking to a couple\/married couple; I said: \u201cHow did you meet? How did you get engaged?\u201d In hearing their story, I heard that, on the second or the third date, the wife had said\u2014the future wife had said to the guy she was dating\u2014she said: \u201cYou\u2019ve got six months. You\u2019ve got six months to either pop the question or move along.\u201d She was 29; he was 30.\n\nShe \u201cI\u2019m at a point in life, where I don\u2019t want to be in a long-term relationship that\u2019s not heading somewhere. It seems reasonable to me that, in six months, you should be able to figure out whether we\u2019re a match or not; and I should be able to figure that out.\u201d She put the date on the calendar, you know: \u201cAugust 19 <sup>th<\/sup> will be the date, and it\u2019s either fish or cut bait at that point.\u201d What\u2019s your thought on that?\n\n<strong>Marshall:<\/strong> Did they get married?\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> They did.\n\n<strong>Marshall:<\/strong> Okay; that\u2019s great. That\u2019s a good story. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> By the way, he said to me, \u201cIt\u2019s the best thing she could have done; because I would have just drifted along, as a guy\u2014in a two-year, going no-where relationship\u2014happy to be just friends and to have the benefits of a girlfriend without having the commitment of marriage.\n\n<strong>Marshall:<\/strong> Yes; so I wonder how well she <em>knew<\/em> him, going into it.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Marshall:<\/strong> But I would say there would be certain guys that need a kick in the pants, probably, to be intentional, and clear, and keep the relationship moving forward.\n\nThat makes me real nervous\u2014the six-month thing\u2014because it just applies\u2014already, there is so much pressure in these situations. Applying an external pressure like that\u2014that could manipulate somebody\u2014I think could go badly\u2014\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Marshall:<\/strong> \u2014with certain people; but I think doing that in community\u2014so I think, for me, I would ask\u2014if I was asked, talking to her about the wisdom of that\u2014I would say: \u201cWhat do people in your life think about that and people in his life think about that? Does that feel like a healthy way to think about this?\u201d\n\nFor <em>me<\/em>, if I\u2019m counseling somebody, I just want to see, month to month, \u201cAre we making progress?\u201d I don\u2019t\u2014and by progress, I don\u2019t mean big revelations\u2014but I ought to be able to sit down with a guy and say, \u201cWhat have you learned about her?\u201d or sit down with a girl and say: \u201cWhat have you learned about him? What\u2019s drawing you to him as you stay in the relationship?\u201d\n\nI think, if are being intentional\u2014and this isn\u2019t just, \u201cWe\u2019re spending time together, watching movies, touching each other, expressing how much we like each other, and talking about our relationship all the time,\u201d\u2014if this is really meaningful\/moving somewhere toward clarity, they\u2019re going to have meaningful things to <em>share<\/em> at those kinds of check-ins.\n\nFor us, I think an important thing to say\u2014in terms of being clear\/the man being clear\u2014that doesn\u2019t mean a state of the union every time you get together, which I think is another ditch on the other side to fall into, where the guy is <em>always<\/em> saying: \u201cWe are at 11 percent,\u201d \u201cWe\u2019re at 27 percent.\u201d I think that\u2019s an unhealthy way to relate to each other.\n\nThat would be my\u2014as I\u2019m looking in, at a couple, I just want to see trajectory: \u201cAre we still aiming toward marriage? Are we moving that way? Are we making progress?\u201d or \u201cDoes this feel like we\u2019re kind of in a holding pattern, and we\u2019re not really making progress?\u201d or \u201c\u2026maybe, we\u2019re even moving backwards?\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Can we just say here that we are talking about something that\u2019s really hard?\u2014the single years are hard. The trying to figure out: \u201cIs this the right one?\u201d is hard. The pursuit of the right one is hard. This is a stage of life that, if you are taking your cues from the culture\/if you\u2019re source material for how to do this is old episodes of <em>Friends<\/em>, you\u2019re not going to wind up in a place that you\u2019re going to be happy with.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is where you\u2019ve got to have godly counsel. It\u2019s where you\u2019ve got to have a book like <em>Not Yet Married<\/em>. It\u2019s where you\u2019ve got to have the Scriptures\u2014be pouring into that\/be pouring that into your life\u2014otherwise, you\u2019re going to find yourself in a place, as a single person, where you\u2019re lonely; you\u2019re depressed; or you\u2019re shipwrecked, because you took your cues from the wrong source.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And Marshall says\u2014and he brought such wisdom to us\u2014and your book says, and it\u2019s so good: \u201cThe best book on dating is the Word of God.\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I mean, it\u2019s so clear\u2014for a single person and for parents, walking beside our kids\u2014it\u2019s like: \u201cWe need Jesus. We need the Word of God, and we all need community.\u201d I don\u2019t know what else you need, but you need those in your life to get to where God wants to take you in this area of your life.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Our hope is that listeners will get a copy of your book, Marshall, <em>Not Yet Married: The Pursuit of Joy in Singleness &amp; Dating<\/em>, because we think is a book that will be helpful for singles to go through. In fact, we\u2019re going to continue our conversation with Marshall. We want to talk about parents and teens, who may be in the dating years and about how you can, maybe, have these kinds of conversations with <em>them<\/em>. You can go to our FamilyLifeToday.com; we\u2019ve got a little bonus podcast available for you there, where we continue the conversation with Marshall. You can download the podcast. Again, this is especially for parents of teenagers. Find it online at FamilyLifeToday.com.\n\nThat\u2019s the same place to go if you\u2019d like to make a donation and get a copy of Marshall\u2019s book, <em>Not Yet Married<\/em>. We\u2019re making the book available this week to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners who can help support the ongoing ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em> I know you may be thinking, \u201cThis book is for people who are in a different season of life than I\u2019m in.\u201d Well, get a copy of the book and ask God who to give it to as a gift. There may be somebody in you church or somebody in the workplace that you can offer this book to; say: \u201cI got a copy of this book in the mail and wanted to pass it on to you.\u201d\n\nMake a donation to support <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>; get your copy of Marshal Segal\u2019s book, <em>Not Yet Married;<\/em> and either read it yourself, go through it with your teenager, or pass it along to someone who would benefit from going through the book. Again, at the same time, know that you\u2019re supporting the ongoing work of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> and helping hundreds of of couples and families, every day, receive practical biblical help and hope for their marriage because of your donation.\n\nYou can donate, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY to make a donation over the phone. Be sure to ask for your copy of Marshal\u2019s book when you call to donate. Again, our website is FamilyLifeToday.com; and the number to call to donate by phone is 1-800-358-6329; that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\nOne of the Marshall talked about today was the importance of mentors in our life. We ought not be trying to navigate relationship issues on our own. We need help from others. David Robbins, the president of FamilyLife <sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, is here with me, thinking about that subject today; right?\n\n<strong>David:<\/strong> Yes; I just reflect back, and I\u2019m <em>so<\/em> grateful. I started thinking of individuals and couples, who mentored and spoke into my life in high school and, especially, in college when I started dating more seriously. I just think of people, who took the risk to really move closer to me. I think I probably tried to play it cool and didn\u2019t show any ounce of, really, appreciating or valuing it; but I was hanging onto <em>every<\/em> word and applying so much of what they were sharing.\n\nBob, you mentioned one of the that I remember learning and, actually, watching in a small group with a mentor, who was leading us. It was that Tommy Nelson story\u2014we were watching a Tommy Nelson Bible study, where he says, \u201cRun as hard as you can after God, and look to this side.\u201d I remember that changing <em>everything<\/em> for me. It was six months later\u2014in pursuing God with everything that I had, and fixing my eye on Jesus, and really surrendering every area of my life to Him\u2014that I looked to the side. Sure enough, there was this young lady, named Meg, running a very similar pace. I pursued her <em>totally<\/em> differently than <em>any<\/em> girl I have ever pursued, because of mentors and their input into my life at that moment in my life.\n\nhear the conversation today, and I just ask all of us to [pray]: \u201cGod, open our eyes to: \u2018Who are the young people around us?\u2019\u201d\u2014and see how we\u2014\u201cGod, help us to take steps of faith to move closer to them: invite them into our homes, model for them what healthy relationships look like, and encourage them in how to pursue relationships,\u201d because these are the families of the next generation, and we get to be a part of their story.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Take been poured into you and pour it into others; right?\n\n<strong>David:<\/strong> <em>Absolutely<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes, that\u2019s great. Thank you, David.\n\nWe want to encourage our listeners to be back with us, again, tomorrow. We\u2019re going to tackle a very difficult subject: the subject of domestic violence\/abuse in a marriage relationship. There are different kinds of abuse; and Darby Strickland, from the Christian Counseling and Education Foundation, is going to be with us tomorrow to help us determine whether what you\u2019re experiencing in marriage actually qualifies as abuse or not. We hope you can tune in for that.\n\nI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with some help today from Bruce Goff and our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. Join us back, again, tomorrow for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\n<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\nWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\nCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2021 FamilyLife. 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});\";s:18:\"current_block_list\";a:17:{i:0;s:14:\"uagb\/container\";i:1;s:12:\"core\/heading\";i:2;s:9:\"core\/html\";i:3;s:10:\"core\/group\";i:6;s:21:\"uagb\/advanced-heading\";i:7;s:14:\"uagb\/separator\";i:8;s:14:\"uagb\/icon-list\";i:9;s:20:\"uagb\/icon-list-child\";i:10;s:11:\"core\/search\";i:13;s:18:\"core\/legacy-widget\";i:16;s:10:\"uagb\/image\";i:17;s:17:\"core\/social-links\";i:18;s:16:\"core\/social-link\";i:19;s:14:\"core\/paragraph\";i:20;s:30:\"meta-box\/fl-conditional-blocks\";i:21;s:12:\"uagb\/buttons\";i:22;s:18:\"uagb\/buttons-child\";}s:8:\"uag_flag\";b:1;s:11:\"uag_version\";i:1776470598;s:6:\"gfonts\";a:1:{s:7:\"Default\";a:2:{s:10:\"fontfamily\";s:7:\"Default\";s:12:\"fontvariants\";a:0:{}}}s:10:\"gfonts_url\";s:71:\"\/\/fonts.googleapis.com\/css?family=Default&subset=latin&display=fallback\";s:12:\"gfonts_files\";a:0:{}s:14:\"uag_faq_layout\";b:0;}"]},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg",508,508,false]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"kfairris@familylife.com","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/kfairrisfamilylife-com\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"Marshall Segal talks to singles about the purpose of dating. Segal encourages singles to slow down and thoroughly get to know the person they are interested in.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Wednesday, February 24<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are and Ann Wilson; I'm Bob Lepine. You can find us online at FamilyLifeToday.com. So what do you do, as a single young man, attempting to define a relationship, only to find out that where the relationship is going is not where you thought it ought to be going? We\u2019re going to hear more about that today from Marshall Segal. Stay with us.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. for joining us. So you know what the path is today\u2014from meet and fall in love to marriage. Here\u2019s the path\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I want to hear this.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014you meet; you date; you have sex; you think, \u201cThis might be the one\u201d; you have kids; you move in together; you get married.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think you missed one of\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> What did I miss?\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I know what she\u2019s going to say.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You meet; you have sex; you <em>determine<\/em> if you want to date.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Oh,\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think that\u2019s very true today.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And here is the thing\u2014there are people, who grow up <em>today<\/em> in the church, and \u201cThat is how it is supposed to work.\u201d We\u2019re here to say, \u201cThat\u2019s <em>not<\/em> the God has outlined.\u201d\n\nMarshall Segal is joining us, again, this week to talk about this. Marshall, welcome back.\n\n<strong>Marshall:<\/strong> Thanks for having me again.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Marshall\u2019s written a book called <em>Not Yet Married<\/em>. We\u2019ve already explained why that\u2019s an acceptable title for his book, and he is a writer and managing editor at DesiringGod.org.\n\nLet\u2019s say we\u2019re talking today to somebody, who has just gone out last night on a date with somebody; and they had a nice time. They are thinking, \u201cYou know, I\u2014it would be nice to go out again; and maybe\u201d\u2014just in the back of their mind\u2014\u201cmaybe, there\u2019s something here. I\u2019d kind of like there to be something here. I <em>think<\/em>, but I don\u2019t know them well enough.\u201d You\u2019re coaching them to get from where they are to where they\u2019d like to go. So, Coach, what\u2019s the next play you\u2019re going to call for this couple?\n\n<strong>Marshall:<\/strong> Yes; I have questions about how they met in the first place. [Laughter] My main questions would be around: \u201cHow much do you know of this person, already, before you enter a relationship?\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Is that important to know before you go out?\n\n<strong>Marshall:<\/strong> I think so. I mean, I would say I would want to <em>way<\/em> slow down any in terms of a romantic relationship until you\u2019ve had an opportunity to get to know this person. If it were me counseling a particular person in my life or in my church, I would want them to be as creative and intentional as possible to try to fold that person into community\u2014so it\u2019s not just: \u201cWe went out on a date. We had a good time. We\u2019re going to do a second one\u201d; \u201cThe second one went well. We\u2019re going to do a third one,\u201d\u2014 all of this is in the context of a one on one, <em>totally<\/em> isolated from any other meaningful relationship.\n\nI want to encourage them: \u201cFind ways\u2014as awkward as it might feel today\u2014find ways to fold them into some meaningful community within your life or in their life.\u201d If they are believers\u2014and they have a solid family, and church community, and friend group\u2014find ways to be able to get to know each other in less-pressured situations than one-on-one dates.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And to start to do activities, together, but in a bigger group setting?\n\n<strong>Marshall:<\/strong> Yes; or I would just say, \u201c\u2026at least, with other people.\u201d\n\nI know this can be tricky. I\u2019m not pretending this is\u2014I mean, I\u2019ve been through this kind of process in the past in relationships. It\u2019s <em>not<\/em> easy; it can be awkward. But hopefully, the kind of person you are dating\u2014and maybe, one day will marry\u2014will respect the fact that you are saying: \u201cI don\u2019t know you very well yet. I think the most important step here, in terms, of determining whether God might be doing something here is for us to get to know each other a little bit. I <em>want<\/em> to get to know you.\u201d That\u2019s an honor\u2014to have someone want to get to know you\u2014\u201cI want to do it in ways that <em>honor<\/em> you.\u201d\n\ndid this with Faye. We\u2019re 28\/29; she\u2019s from California. Nothing is more awkward than trying to fold somebody in, long-distance; but we prioritized <em>every<\/em> single trip. We spent as <em>much<\/em> time as possible with the most important people in each other\u2019s lives. We <em>planned<\/em> it out beforehand: \u201cWe\u2019re going to spend time with my best friend, with my parents, with those people that I\u2019m doing ministry with. She\u2019s going to come to small group,\u201d\u2014but just thinking, intentionally, and talking, intentionally, how to fold other people in the community.\n\nThe principle that I came to in writing the book is\u2014I want to encourage someone, generally: \u201cPursue clarity and postpone intimacy.\u201d That\u2019s the main principle I want to talk about. I talk about how intimacy is safest in the context of marriage; and marriage is going to be safest in the context of clarity. If you are wanting to pursue intimacy with this person, the <em>best<\/em> thing you can do is pursue clarity about whether God is calling you to marry this person.\n\nI think a <em>lot<\/em> of people\u2014myself included\u2014pursued clarity by diving into intimacy: \u201cLet\u2019s try it, and see how it feels.\u201d I talk about thinking that it\u2019s like a bicycle\u2014so you just pick up a bicycle, and you don\u2019t know how to ride it\u2014and no one is going to coach you through this. You just keep getting on the bike until: \u201cOh, I stayed up! So now, I can get married.\u201d\n\nI in the book\u2014more like flying an airplane, which I don\u2019t have any experience with\u2014[Laughter]\u2014but if you look through the process of what becoming a pilot is, you do <em>so much<\/em> before you ever actually sit in the seat. I want people to think about dating and the pursuit of marriage that way\u2014more that there are intentional steps\u2014this pilot knows, \u201cI want to fly a plane; like I\u2019m not doing any of these classes or this training for something else. It\u2019s not preparing me for anything else.\u201d\n\nIt\u2019s preparing me for marriage; but thinking about small steps to pursue clarity, to get to know each other, and to postpone intimacy as much as possible. I think folding other people into community and, then, being aware of: how much time we spend together\/what kinds of things we talk about\u2014being sensitive to\u2014like, \u201cOh, that\u2019s intimate.\u201d I don\u2019t think you should be talking about what marriage might be like on your second or third date.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Marshall:<\/strong> I just think that\u2019s inappropriate.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Can you talk about: \u201cThis is what I\u2019m looking for\u201d? Do you go into that kind of conversation?\n\n<strong>Marshall:<\/strong> I think you can have that conversation. I\u2019m not sure how helpful it is on a first, or second, or third date. I would be a lot more focused on: \u201cWho are <em>you<\/em>?\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Marshall:<\/strong> \u201cWhat do you <em>love<\/em>?\u201d \u201cWhat do you your time <em>doing<\/em>?\u201d \u201cWho are the most important people in your life?\u201d I can think of a <em>thousand<\/em> questions that I would ask <em>before<\/em>\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Marshall:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cWhat are you looking and \u201cDo I\u2014\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cmeasure up?\u201d\n\n<strong>Marshall:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cmeasure up?\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, would you declare, as a guy, on a second or third day\u2014would you say to somebody: \u201cI just want you to know, from an intentionality standpoint, I\u2019m not recreationally dating. I am dating with marriage as a potentiality, not an inevitability; but this\u2014I\u2019d like to pursue this <em>seriously<\/em> rather than casually\u201d?\n\n<strong>Marshall:<\/strong> Absolutely; I say first date, and I would say it doesn\u2019t have to be this major declaration of independence. I\u2019d just say: \u201cI\u2019d like to get to know you better. Any dating I do is for the purpose of discovering who God might call me to marry. That doesn\u2019t mean we have to get married, because we go on a date. It just means that I want you to know, from the outset, I\u2019m pursuing clarity toward whether God will call me to marry you or not.\u201d\n\nWe dated for 19 months; so it\u2019s not like that process happens in 4 weeks, or 6 weeks, or 2 months. In fact, I think some people need to take <em>more<\/em> time, because they rush into engagement and marriage <em>before<\/em> they\u2019ve really had a chance to get to know each other.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I do like this idea, because you are really becoming <em>friends<\/em>. So much of marriage is about friendship, and being together, and liking each other\u2019s company, and having fun together. That\u2019s not always the case when you\u2019re dating\u2014it\u2019s so romantic, and it feels a little delusional in some ways.\n\n<strong>Marshall:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yet, I think about Dave and [me]\u2014he is my <em>best<\/em> friend.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> We had the <em>perfect<\/em> dating relationship.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> We sure didn\u2019t. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Marshall:<\/strong> You should write a book.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> There\u2019s nobody better than <em>me<\/em>\u2014right here. I\u2019m the <em>best<\/em>\u2014no. [Laughter]\n\nBut I do want to ask you this, because you\u2019re talking about the community\/friend thing. Then, everything you are talking about now\u2014you\u2019re sort of alone. What is the balance?\n\nBecause I know me\u2014I would be pulling her away. Although I know that, if I\u2019m with Ann with a group, I\u2019d get to see all those things you are looking for\u2014I\u2019d see that probably better in community\u2014but then, it requires some real time, where I\u2019m not with my friends\u2014we\u2019re looking, eye to eye, and I\u2019m saying: \u201cI want to get to know your heart. I want to know your passion for Christ.\u201d How do you balance that?\n\n<strong>Marshall:<\/strong> Yes; if I had a daughter\u2014I don\u2019t have a daughter\u2014if you were talking that way, on a second date, to my daughter, I would say: \u201cBrother, slow down! [Laughter] You <em>don\u2019t<\/em> need to look at her that way\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> My dad was saying that too.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Marshall:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cor talk to her that way.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You know what her dad said to me?\n\n<strong>Marshall:<\/strong> \u201cI know you\u2019re eager. I can <em>see<\/em> that you the Lord, and I\u2019m thankful. I see all kinds of grace on you.\u201d [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> did her dad say to you? [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Her dad didn\u2019t say it <em>to me<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> What did he say?\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> He said it to Ann <em>about<\/em> me.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> He said\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cYou will not date that boy. He is <em>barred<\/em> from the house.\u201d He was my coach.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014so he <em>knew<\/em> your reputation.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> He knew my before-Christ life. If I\u2019m that dad, I\u2019d say the same thing: \u201cStay away from Dave Wilson.\u201d\n\nObviously, Christ had changed me; but I can remember, early in the relationship, feeling like, \u201cI\u2019m falling in love with her,\u201d and starting to think about marriage. I say to her\u2014in her parents\u2019 driveway, as I\u2019m dropping her off at night\u2014I said: \u201cI think I\u2019m falling in love with you. I don\u2019t\u2019 know what to do with these feelings. I want to talk about marriage. I\u2019d like to kiss you. I\u2019m not going to, but I\u2019m just being honest.\u201d\n\nThe [Ann] says: \u201cHey, why don\u2019t we just give it to God and trust Him and be friends? Let\u2019s not put anything on it besides let\u2019s pursue Christ together, as a friendship.\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cThere\u2019s the maturity that I didn\u2019t have.\u201d We prayed and offered it to Him. All the stress went away\u2014it was like: \u201cOkay; let\u2019s be friends. Let\u2019s get to know each other. Let\u2019s get to know our relationship with God together and see where it goes.\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That\u2019s what I call the Tommy Nelson Principle\u2014you\u2019ve heard this quote before. The first person I heard it from was a pastor in Denton, Texas, Tommy Nelson, who said: \u201cIf you\u2019re single, your job is to run as hard and as fast toward Jesus as you can. If, while you\u2019re running, you see someone, out of the corner of your eye, running in the same direction, at the same speed, take a second look.\u201d That\u2019s just <em>great<\/em> advice for\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014singles, who are in process.\n\nBut if you have moved along in the process, to where you\u2019re starting to think, \u201cOkay; this could be the one,\u201d\u2014I talked to one young man, who said, \u201cThe girl I was dating thought I must not like her, because I was trying to maintain physical purity. I was not putting moves on her, and she was feeling insecure and feeling unloved; because she\u2019d never been out with a guy who didn\u2019t do that.\u201d\n\nShould a guy, verbalize: \u201cHere are my boundaries and standards. Here\u2019s how I am going to try and handle that with you,\u201d to put her mind at ease?\n\n<strong>Marshall:<\/strong> Oh, absolutely. The problem with that situation is communication\u2014it\u2019s not the boundary; it\u2019s not the self-control\u2014you <em>cannot<\/em> be too self-controlled in dating. [Laughter] I have yet to meet a couple, where I thought: \u201cYou know what? You could go a little further,\u201d\u2014[Laughter]\u2014it just doesn\u2019t happen.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Marshall:<\/strong> And you won\u2019t regret\u2014I\u2019ve said a lot of times\u2014you won\u2019t regret <em>anything<\/em> you didn\u2019t do you got married\u2014 <em>anything<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Good.\n\n<strong>Marshall:<\/strong> I just want to encourage guys, in particular: \u201cBe the primary initiator of communication.\u201d I don\u2019t think\u2014generally speaking, I don\u2019t think a girl should ever wonder what a guy is thinking, or feeling, or doing in a relationship.\n\nNow, when you had the impulse to say\u2014\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u201cI love\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Marshall:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cI\u2019m falling in love with you,\u201d\u2014\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Marshall:<\/strong> \u2014on whatever date\u2014\u201cand I want to kiss you,\u201d\u2014my counsel to you would be: \u201cThere is a way to communicate that that\u2019s not making her so vulnerable\u201d; but to express where you were\u2014in some way, shape, or form\u2014to say, \u201cI like you.\u201d\n\nThat\u2019s where Faye and I were for a long time, where I\u2019m saying: \u201cI like you. I want to pursue you\u201d; and she\u2019s saying, \u201cNo, thank you,\u201d over, and over, and over again.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Did she?\n\n<strong>Marshall:<\/strong> Yes, over and over; yes\u2014six months of pursuit, where I was very interested; and she was cool\u2014I talk about it in the book.\n\nWe got to a point, where we sat down; it was our first official date. She won\u2019t call it a date, but it was the two of us having coffee. I laid out my feelings for her, and I was feeling confident about it. Things were going well\u2014we were talking on the phone once a week or so for 30 minutes. It was going super well\u2014the date went <em>great<\/em>. I thought, \u201cShe\u2019s to say, \u2018Yes, I would like to be pursued by you.\u2019\u201d I said: \u201cI\u2019m really enjoying getting to know you. I like you; I\u2019d like to pursue you toward marriage.\u201d She said: \u201cI\u2019ve also been enjoying getting to know you. I\u2019ve really enjoyed our conversations.\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cThis is good.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; \u201cIt\u2019s good.\u201d [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Marshall:<\/strong> She said, \u201cYou\u2019re a very nice human being.\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Oh!\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014\u201chuman being.\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I hear where this is going.\n\n<strong>Marshall:<\/strong> I\u2019m like, \u201cWhat does that <em>mean<\/em>?\u2014[Laughter and sound of a bomb exploding]\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Marshall:<\/strong> \u2014\u201c\u2019You\u2019re a nice human being\u2019?\u201d She said, \u201cBut when I think about a relationship, my heart is cold.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh! How did you just not turn away?!\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Really?\n\n<strong>Marshall:<\/strong> So, it was an awkward awkward pause. My wife is <em>very<\/em> honest\u2014let\u2019s say it that way.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I guess. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Marshall:<\/strong> She\u2019s very honest, and I <em>love<\/em> it about her. awkward pause\u2014and I say, \u201cAre we talking ice cold or\u2014[Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u201cSo you\u2019re saying there is a chance!\u201d\n\n<strong>Marshall:<\/strong> \u2014\u201clukewarm?\u201d She said, \u201cCold.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Whoa.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Wow.\n\n<strong>Marshall:<\/strong> That was essentially the end of that conversation; it was still friendly. She was visiting a family member in Minnesota, so we ended up spending a little bit of time together the next day. She largely acted normal. I just figured, \u201cThat\u2019s the end.\u201d Two weeks go by, I don\u2019t call; and then, <em>she<\/em> reaches out to me and says, \u201cHey, you haven\u2019t called.\u201d I said, \u201cYes; you\u2019ve\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u201cYour heart is cold.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cYou said\u2014the phone\u2014\n\n<strong>Marshall:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cyou made it very clear where you were.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cI can\u2019t pick the phone up when it\u2019s ice.\u201d\n\n<strong>Marshall:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cand it\u2019s so cold.\u201d She said: \u201cOh, I just wanted to let you know I wasn\u2019t ready to be in a relationship right now. Like, I would still love to be friends. If that means you don\u2019t want to call anymore, I totally understand.\u201d\n\nI back and prayed about that; and I just thought: \u201cYou know, I\u2019m not in a hurry to rush off anywhere else. I really <em>admire<\/em> this woman.\u201d So, I did\u2014I called, and we talked for 30 to 40 minutes once a week for <em>months<\/em>. I mean, never more than that; and that was the purpose. I said, from the beginning, \u201cUnless we\u2019re going to get in a relationship, it\u2019s not going to be more than this; but we\u2019re going to limit it to 30 to 40 minutes.\u201d\n\nWe largely just talked about ways we could pray for each other. Each conversation started with checking in on things that we prayed for last time or that we asked for prayer for last time. We never prayed together on the phone, at that time. Then, it ended with, \u201cHow can I pray for you this week?\u201d We just talked about a lot of things going on in our lives, and the Lord just knit our hearts together as <em>friends<\/em> in that time.\n\nI love it\u2014I mean, I look back\u2014and that moment was awkward\u2014I was really surprised; but when I look back on it now, it preserved a period of six months for us to be <em>friends<\/em>. We put boundaries in place to make sure it wasn\u2019t more than that. I knew, along the way, that if my heart was saying, \u201cIf this doesn\u2019t become a relationship, then it\u2019s a stumbling block for me. I need to get out of that relationship.\u201d She knew that.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So I want to ask you about a scenario\u2014\n\n<strong>Marshall:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014and just get your take on this. I was talking to a couple\/married couple; I said: \u201cHow did you meet? How did you get engaged?\u201d In hearing their story, I heard that, on the second or the third date, the wife had said\u2014the future wife had said to the guy she was dating\u2014she said: \u201cYou\u2019ve got six months. You\u2019ve got six months to either pop the question or move along.\u201d She was 29; he was 30.\n\nShe \u201cI\u2019m at a point in life, where I don\u2019t want to be in a long-term relationship that\u2019s not heading somewhere. It seems reasonable to me that, in six months, you should be able to figure out whether we\u2019re a match or not; and I should be able to figure that out.\u201d She put the date on the calendar, you know: \u201cAugust 19 <sup>th<\/sup> will be the date, and it\u2019s either fish or cut bait at that point.\u201d What\u2019s your thought on that?\n\n<strong>Marshall:<\/strong> Did they get married?\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> They did.\n\n<strong>Marshall:<\/strong> Okay; that\u2019s great. That\u2019s a good story. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> By the way, he said to me, \u201cIt\u2019s the best thing she could have done; because I would have just drifted along, as a guy\u2014in a two-year, going no-where relationship\u2014happy to be just friends and to have the benefits of a girlfriend without having the commitment of marriage.\n\n<strong>Marshall:<\/strong> Yes; so I wonder how well she <em>knew<\/em> him, going into it.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Marshall:<\/strong> But I would say there would be certain guys that need a kick in the pants, probably, to be intentional, and clear, and keep the relationship moving forward.\n\nThat makes me real nervous\u2014the six-month thing\u2014because it just applies\u2014already, there is so much pressure in these situations. Applying an external pressure like that\u2014that could manipulate somebody\u2014I think could go badly\u2014\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Marshall:<\/strong> \u2014with certain people; but I think doing that in community\u2014so I think, for me, I would ask\u2014if I was asked, talking to her about the wisdom of that\u2014I would say: \u201cWhat do people in your life think about that and people in his life think about that? Does that feel like a healthy way to think about this?\u201d\n\nFor <em>me<\/em>, if I\u2019m counseling somebody, I just want to see, month to month, \u201cAre we making progress?\u201d I don\u2019t\u2014and by progress, I don\u2019t mean big revelations\u2014but I ought to be able to sit down with a guy and say, \u201cWhat have you learned about her?\u201d or sit down with a girl and say: \u201cWhat have you learned about him? What\u2019s drawing you to him as you stay in the relationship?\u201d\n\nI think, if are being intentional\u2014and this isn\u2019t just, \u201cWe\u2019re spending time together, watching movies, touching each other, expressing how much we like each other, and talking about our relationship all the time,\u201d\u2014if this is really meaningful\/moving somewhere toward clarity, they\u2019re going to have meaningful things to <em>share<\/em> at those kinds of check-ins.\n\nFor us, I think an important thing to say\u2014in terms of being clear\/the man being clear\u2014that doesn\u2019t mean a state of the union every time you get together, which I think is another ditch on the other side to fall into, where the guy is <em>always<\/em> saying: \u201cWe are at 11 percent,\u201d \u201cWe\u2019re at 27 percent.\u201d I think that\u2019s an unhealthy way to relate to each other.\n\nThat would be my\u2014as I\u2019m looking in, at a couple, I just want to see trajectory: \u201cAre we still aiming toward marriage? Are we moving that way? Are we making progress?\u201d or \u201cDoes this feel like we\u2019re kind of in a holding pattern, and we\u2019re not really making progress?\u201d or \u201c\u2026maybe, we\u2019re even moving backwards?\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Can we just say here that we are talking about something that\u2019s really hard?\u2014the single years are hard. The trying to figure out: \u201cIs this the right one?\u201d is hard. The pursuit of the right one is hard. This is a stage of life that, if you are taking your cues from the culture\/if you\u2019re source material for how to do this is old episodes of <em>Friends<\/em>, you\u2019re not going to wind up in a place that you\u2019re going to be happy with.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is where you\u2019ve got to have godly counsel. It\u2019s where you\u2019ve got to have a book like <em>Not Yet Married<\/em>. It\u2019s where you\u2019ve got to have the Scriptures\u2014be pouring into that\/be pouring that into your life\u2014otherwise, you\u2019re going to find yourself in a place, as a single person, where you\u2019re lonely; you\u2019re depressed; or you\u2019re shipwrecked, because you took your cues from the wrong source.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And Marshall says\u2014and he brought such wisdom to us\u2014and your book says, and it\u2019s so good: \u201cThe best book on dating is the Word of God.\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I mean, it\u2019s so clear\u2014for a single person and for parents, walking beside our kids\u2014it\u2019s like: \u201cWe need Jesus. We need the Word of God, and we all need community.\u201d I don\u2019t know what else you need, but you need those in your life to get to where God wants to take you in this area of your life.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Our hope is that listeners will get a copy of your book, Marshall, <em>Not Yet Married: The Pursuit of Joy in Singleness &amp; Dating<\/em>, because we think is a book that will be helpful for singles to go through. In fact, we\u2019re going to continue our conversation with Marshall. We want to talk about parents and teens, who may be in the dating years and about how you can, maybe, have these kinds of conversations with <em>them<\/em>. You can go to our FamilyLifeToday.com; we\u2019ve got a little bonus podcast available for you there, where we continue the conversation with Marshall. You can download the podcast. Again, this is especially for parents of teenagers. Find it online at FamilyLifeToday.com.\n\nThat\u2019s the same place to go if you\u2019d like to make a donation and get a copy of Marshall\u2019s book, <em>Not Yet Married<\/em>. We\u2019re making the book available this week to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners who can help support the ongoing ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em> I know you may be thinking, \u201cThis book is for people who are in a different season of life than I\u2019m in.\u201d Well, get a copy of the book and ask God who to give it to as a gift. There may be somebody in you church or somebody in the workplace that you can offer this book to; say: \u201cI got a copy of this book in the mail and wanted to pass it on to you.\u201d\n\nMake a donation to support <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>; get your copy of Marshal Segal\u2019s book, <em>Not Yet Married;<\/em> and either read it yourself, go through it with your teenager, or pass it along to someone who would benefit from going through the book. Again, at the same time, know that you\u2019re supporting the ongoing work of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> and helping hundreds of of couples and families, every day, receive practical biblical help and hope for their marriage because of your donation.\n\nYou can donate, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY to make a donation over the phone. Be sure to ask for your copy of Marshal\u2019s book when you call to donate. Again, our website is FamilyLifeToday.com; and the number to call to donate by phone is 1-800-358-6329; that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\nOne of the Marshall talked about today was the importance of mentors in our life. We ought not be trying to navigate relationship issues on our own. We need help from others. David Robbins, the president of FamilyLife <sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, is here with me, thinking about that subject today; right?\n\n<strong>David:<\/strong> Yes; I just reflect back, and I\u2019m <em>so<\/em> grateful. I started thinking of individuals and couples, who mentored and spoke into my life in high school and, especially, in college when I started dating more seriously. I just think of people, who took the risk to really move closer to me. I think I probably tried to play it cool and didn\u2019t show any ounce of, really, appreciating or valuing it; but I was hanging onto <em>every<\/em> word and applying so much of what they were sharing.\n\nBob, you mentioned one of the that I remember learning and, actually, watching in a small group with a mentor, who was leading us. It was that Tommy Nelson story\u2014we were watching a Tommy Nelson Bible study, where he says, \u201cRun as hard as you can after God, and look to this side.\u201d I remember that changing <em>everything<\/em> for me. It was six months later\u2014in pursuing God with everything that I had, and fixing my eye on Jesus, and really surrendering every area of my life to Him\u2014that I looked to the side. Sure enough, there was this young lady, named Meg, running a very similar pace. I pursued her <em>totally<\/em> differently than <em>any<\/em> girl I have ever pursued, because of mentors and their input into my life at that moment in my life.\n\nhear the conversation today, and I just ask all of us to [pray]: \u201cGod, open our eyes to: \u2018Who are the young people around us?\u2019\u201d\u2014and see how we\u2014\u201cGod, help us to take steps of faith to move closer to them: invite them into our homes, model for them what healthy relationships look like, and encourage them in how to pursue relationships,\u201d because these are the families of the next generation, and we get to be a part of their story.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Take been poured into you and pour it into others; right?\n\n<strong>David:<\/strong> <em>Absolutely<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes, that\u2019s great. Thank you, David.\n\nWe want to encourage our listeners to be back with us, again, tomorrow. We\u2019re going to tackle a very difficult subject: the subject of domestic violence\/abuse in a marriage relationship. There are different kinds of abuse; and Darby Strickland, from the Christian Counseling and Education Foundation, is going to be with us tomorrow to help us determine whether what you\u2019re experiencing in marriage actually qualifies as abuse or not. We hope you can tune in for that.\n\nI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with some help today from Bruce Goff and our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. Join us back, again, tomorrow for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\n<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\nWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\nCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2021 FamilyLife. 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