{"id":306733,"date":"2021-02-17T07:01:05","date_gmt":"2021-02-17T12:01:05","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/when-my-family-is-toxic\/"},"modified":"2021-02-17T07:01:05","modified_gmt":"2021-02-17T12:01:05","slug":"when-my-family-is-toxic","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/when-my-family-is-toxic\/","title":{"rendered":"When My Family Is Toxic"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>When the people in your family hurt you the most, what do you do? Gary Thomas explains that if a family member enjoys tearing you down and destroying the relationship, then it may be time to walk away.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2021-02-17.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:28:10","filesize":"25.79M","filesize_raw":"27040806","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2848,2873],"tags":[6806],"podcast_series":[8323],"cwp_profile":[3158],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-306733","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-cultural-issues","category-mental-and-emotional-issues","tag-toxic-people","podcast_series-when-to-walk-away","cwp_profile-gary-thomas","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/306733\/when-my-family-is-toxic","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/306733\/when-my-family-is-toxic","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"xN2Av1L94O\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/when-my-family-is-toxic\/\">When My Family Is Toxic<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/when-my-family-is-toxic\/embed\/#?secret=xN2Av1L94O\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;When My Family Is Toxic&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"xN2Av1L94O\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2021-02-17.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2021-02-17.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Bob: <\/strong>If you came from a dysfunctional family of origin, and now you\u2019re getting married, and you don\u2019t want those dysfunctions to follow you into your new marriage\/your new family, what do you do? Gary Thomas says what you don\u2019t do is try to go back, at the beginning of your new marriage, and fix what was broken in the family you grew up in.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary:<\/strong> I see this half the time, where suddenly they have this great marriage; they are starting a new family: \u201cOkay; now, it\u2019s time for me to go fix my childhood home.\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cThat is <em>wasting<\/em> your time. You <em>can\u2019t<\/em> have a healthy relationship with an unhealthy person. You need to walk away from what\u2019s destroying you, so you\u2019re building up a strong marriage. You have a chance to build a new family\/a new relationship; a new marriage takes a lot of time. Don\u2019t go back and try to parent your parents. Thank God that He has brought you to a new place, where you can be involved in a <em>healthy<\/em> relationship.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Wednesday, February 17<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I'm Bob Lepine. You can find us online at FamilyLifeToday.com. There may be a time in the future when you need to address relationship issues from your family of origin; but at the start of a new marriage, it\u2019s time to focus on leaving and cleaving. We\u2019re going to talk more about that today with Gary Thomas as we talk about toxic relationships. Stay with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. You know, it occurs to me that the reason that we have a radio program is because relationships are hard. [Laughter] I mean, let\u2019s just acknowledge\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> It\u2019s true. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cIf relationships were easy, no one would be tuning in and listening to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> They wouldn\u2019t need any help! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> But relationships are hard; because any time you are in a relationship, it\u2019s two sinful people. Our sinful tendencies manifest themselves; and it makes what we long for\u2014which is love\u2014it causes it to go sideways because of our sin. Sometimes, that gets extreme; and that\u2019s what we\u2019re talking about this week as we talk about toxic relationships. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019ve got Gary Thomas joining us, again, this week. Gary, welcome back. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary:<\/strong> Thank you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Gary is an author\/a speaker. He is on the pastoral staff at Second Baptist Church in Houston. He is the writer-in-residence there. He\u2019s the author of books that really have been widely influential in the church\u2014the books: <em>Sacred Marriage<\/em>, <em>Sacred Parenting<\/em>, <em>Sacred Influence<\/em>, and now this book, <em>When to Walk Away<\/em>. Really, a book\u2014I started this week by saying, \u201cYes; we\u2019re going to have Gary on whatever book he writes,\u201d\u2014but this is the least Gary Thomas book you\u2019ve written; don\u2019t you think? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary:<\/strong> It is. I would have never believed it, and it was difficult for me to put it down\u2014there were some truths in here that, honestly, are <em>painful<\/em>\u2014but I think necessary. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019ve got to tell you\u2014when I picked it up, I thought the same thing\u2014that: \u201cThis is Gary Thomas?!\u201d Then I started reading, and I <em>couldn\u2019t<\/em> put it down. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, I know. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You are hitting on something <em>so<\/em> <em>important<\/em>. It was a journey to go through; it was really very, very good. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> It\u2019s one thing\u2014if we\u2019ve got a friend, who we just look at and go: \u201cThis relationship is draining me,\u201d and \u201cI need to put some boundaries around it. I need to protect that,\u201d\u2014but when those relationships are blood\/when we\u2019re talking about our parents,\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014or when we\u2019re talking about siblings, or when we\u2019re talking about\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014children\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014then it gets real. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Now, all of a sudden: \u201cWhat do we do with that?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI know, as you got into these chapters in the later part of your book, you were walking into a minefield. You <em>knew<\/em> you were walking into a minefield; didn\u2019t you? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary:<\/strong> I certainly did. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Well, Gary, one of the chapters is about toxic parents. One of the Ten Commandments is to honor your father and mother. Then you start out saying, \u201cHow do we honor our <em>toxic <\/em>parents?\u201d That is really difficult, because God\u2019s calling us to honor them; but what if they are toxic? What does a toxic parent look like? Give us some examples. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary:<\/strong> If we go back to what we said a couple of days ago, if they are overly controlling, they are certainly acting in a toxic way. We talked yesterday about the difference between acting in a toxic way and actually being toxic, so you\u2019re trying to figure that out. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf they have a murderous spirit, where they are murdering your plans; they are murdering your joy; they are murdering sense of security; or murdering your independence, frankly; or if they love to hate\u2014if they enjoy tearing you down, if they enjoy cutting your feet out from under you, if they enjoy destroying your relationships\u2014that\u2019s a situation, where you realize, \u201cThis relationship isn\u2019t healthy for me.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019ve got to tell you\u2014I\u2019ve talked, so often, with couples, where I just\u2014one of my favorite things\/I love doing premarital counseling when I see this woman, who came out of a really dysfunctional home, and she chooses a great guy; because you know, sometimes, when you come out of a dysfunctional home\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary:<\/strong> \u2014you marry a guy, who is sort of like your dad\u2014but Jesus has redeemed him; He has restored him; He\u2019s renewed him. They have this great marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd then I see this half the time, where suddenly they have this great marriage; they are starting a new family: \u201cOkay; now, it\u2019s time for me to go fix my childhood home.\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cThat is <em>wasting<\/em> your time. You <em>can\u2019t<\/em> have a healthy relationship with an unhealthy person. You need to walk away from what\u2019s destroying you, so you\u2019re building up a strong marriage. You have a chance to build a new family\/a new relationship; a new marriage takes a lot of time.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLisa and I\u2014the first year of our marriage was the most difficult year of marriage. Sounds like, from <em>Vertical Marriage<\/em>, that was your\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> It was. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary:<\/strong> \u2014most difficult year. Don\u2019t go back and try to parent your parents. Thank God that He has brought you to a new place, where you can be involved in a <em>healthy<\/em> relationship. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Do you just cut yourself off from your dysfunctional family and your parents, who may exhibit toxic behavior?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary:<\/strong> Let me give two examples. There is one, where a woman had an older sister, who had made some really bad choices in life: was a single mom, had a baby. The younger sister had done so much right: she\u2019d gone to an Ivy League school; she was starting a business; she was following the Lord. It was <em>exciting<\/em>\u2014the doors that God opened up for her\u2014it\u2019s like she was a female Joseph; everything she did was being blessed. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, because she was now in the same city as her older sister, she would get these emergency babysitting calls: \u201cYou\u2019ve got to watch your niece.\u201d Because she owned the business, she was sort of able to do that; but she resented it. It was getting in the way of starting this off, because it takes a lot of energy. Thankfully, God brought her a great mentor, who just said to her: \u201cLook, neither your mom nor your sister know what it takes to succeed at this level. You are actually undercutting your ability to bless so many people with this new effort you have by doing these emergency babysitting calls.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tShe felt guilty when she looked at it through the lens of relationship; because the older sister would say: \u201cYou\u2019re a Christian. Aren\u2019t Christians supposed to help those in need?\u201d Her mom would say: \u201cYou\u2019ve got to help her. She doesn\u2019t have the advantages that you have had.\u201d Of course, the mentor could tell her: \u201cYou both grew up in the same home. She made some choices; this isn\u2019t about advantages.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>But when she <em>=<\/em> at her family dynamics through the sense of mission: \u201cGod has called me to do an important work in this world. I need to invest in reliable people,\u201d\u2014the people in her work\u2014\u201cand that I am actually hurting more people by doing this really childcare that isn\u2019t appropriate at this time.\u201d Now, she had a lens to say, \u201cIt was selfish for her to say, \u2018Yes,\u2019 to her sister and her mom.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn that situation, I believe that her mom was acting in a toxic manner; but her mom wasn\u2019t toxic. She didn\u2019t cut off the relationship there. Now, they weren\u2019t happy with her; but she has maintained that relationship. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tToxic\u2014where you need to walk away\u2014would be another couple, where the husband was married to a solid Christian woman; but his mom was either passive aggressive or not so passive aggressive and would just punish his wife. She couldn\u2019t do anything right: she wasn\u2019t parenting right; she didn\u2019t cook right; she didn\u2019t love her husband well enough\u2014it just drained her. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tShe just said to him, early in December: \u201cHoney, I\u2019m\/I just can\u2019t even bear the thought of spending Christmas with your mom this year.\u201d She goes: \u201cIt takes me months to [recover]. You know it\u2019s been a difficult fall,\u201d\u2014they had an issue with one of their kids\u2014she goes, \u201cI just don\u2019t know if I can do it.\u201d This guy\/he knew that his mom preached the gospel of family above all else, and not being there for Christmas would be an act of <em>war<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> There would be a backlash. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary:<\/strong> But he did the right thing. He realized, for that holiday, they needed to walk away. His wife needed to know, \u201cHoney, it\u2019s legitimate.\u201d It\u2019s not like she was being hyper-sensitive; he <em>knew<\/em> this was going on. It wasn\u2019t his wife being too sensitive; it was his mom being toxic toward his wife. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHere is what I say to couples in this situation\u2014because he said: \u201cGary, how can I do this? I\u2019m supposed to honor my father and mother,\u201d\u2014I said, \u201cYou honor your mom by acting as if she\u2019s healthy. If my son called me and said, \u2018Dad, for the sake of my marriage, we just can\u2019t spend Christmas with you,\u2019 I\u2019d be devastated; but I hope I would say: \u2018Son, I\u2019m proud of you. You\u2019re a husband first. You\u2019re putting your wife first. You\u2019re doing what you\u2019re supposed to do. You\u2019re being a good husband. Good for you. We\u2019ll miss you; but I\u2019m proud of you.\u2019\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s what I think a healthy parent would say. The fact that she <em>didn\u2019t<\/em> respond that way, in any remote way, I think, proves that she was acting in a toxic way. For that holiday, they had to walk away. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI tell younger couples\u2014I speak with the sentimentality of an empty-nester: \u201cIt\u2019s shocking how few Christmases you have when the kids are young. Then, when they get older\u2014and they start to go away, or they are on trips, or then they are bringing in boyfriends or girlfriends or now, spouses or whatnot\u2014it\u2019s very few. To sacrifice the wonder of a holiday with kids in a healthy situation, to appease a toxic parent, I think it\u2019s a poor life choice. It\u2019s not your fault; you\u2019re walking away from toxicity\u2014not out of meanness\/not out of disrespect\u2014but out of wanting to give your kids a healthy and, even, happy childhood.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I can\u2019t imagine. I mean, Gary, I know NFL players that I worked with for \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t33 seasons, who could <em>not<\/em> do what you are saying right there. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014in terms of saying, \u201cNo,\u201d to their family. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cThere is no way I can call my mom and say, \u2018I\u2019m not coming to Christmas.\u2019 It isn\u2019t going to happen. I just can\u2019t do that,\u201d\u2014you know?\u2014\u201cI\u2019m just going to endure.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI know counselors, who would say to that person: \u201cOh, just fake it. Just go there for a couple days. Fake it to make it and move on\u201d; but you\u2019re saying, \u201cYou\u2019ve got to make a hard choice.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary:<\/strong> I think we need to protect our family members from evil. When our kids were growing up, we talked a lot about Jesus; and I am thankful for that. I wish we had talked more about evil\u2014and how to deal with evil and evil people that might prey\u2014you can overdo it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary:<\/strong> You should emphasize Jesus ten times; but to <em>not<\/em> mention evil at all is to leave people ill-equipped. Jesus said many times: \u201cWatch out,\u201d \u201cBe on your guard.\u201d I mean, He told His disciples: \u201cI\u2019m the way, the truth, and the life. These are liars, murderers, and thieves.\u201d We need to, I think, model <em>and<\/em> speak the reality of evil in a fallen world. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We speak at the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> marriage getaways about God\u2019s plan for marriage. What\u2019s step one in God\u2019s plan for marriage?\u2014\u201cFor this cause\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cleave.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cyou will leave father and mother, and you will form a new priority relationship.\u201d When another person is not letting you leave and cleave, they are <em>attacking<\/em> your marriage relationship. They are doing harm to what God has said: \u201cThis needs to be the new priority relationship.\u201d That\u2019s where husbands and wives need to say\u2014and I\u2019ll just say moms and dads need to say\u2014\u201cThat ought to be the priority.\u201d As you said, the healthy parent ought to say: \u201cYou\u2019re making your marriage a priority. Good for you.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> If you can\u2019t say that, as a parent, you\u2019re the problem. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; and yet, to come and say: \u201cHey, I just heard this radio broadcast. I\u2019ve discovered, after listening to it, that your mother is evil. We\u2019re not going to go to Christmas this year,\u201d\u2014help us to know: \u201cHow do we say that if we feel that about our spouse\u2019s parents?\u201d That\u2019s kind of tricky. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary:<\/strong> Well, here is the thing\u2014I think you can recognize whether your spouse is up for it\/where we believe God is calling us to this as a mission. But it\u2019s sort of like, if you are compromised\/if your immune system is compromised, you don\u2019t go walk into a room of sick people. It is an art, where you\u2019re figuring out: \u201cOkay; [is] my spouse\u2014do I need to protect my spouse? Is this something we can do as an outreach?\u201d But then, you\u2019re also bringing in your kids. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnother circumstance is where a guy\u2014he had an abusive dad and an abusive mom\u2014she was verbally abusive; his dad was physically abusive. He became a Christian; and they ridiculed him: \u201cYes; we\u2019ll see what happens when you\u2019re in high school,\u201d \u201cWe\u2019ll see what happens when you\u2019re in college.\u201d Then they had kids, and his parents realized what they had missed; and they thought they would get a do-over with their grandkids. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, his dad was still drinking too much; his mom was still talking the same way\/in the same caustic way. The question came: \u201cWhen are the grandkids going to spend the weekend with us?\u201d He said: \u201cThey are not. They will not be at your house without us.\u201d They\u2019ll pulled out the card that toxic people use against Christians: \u201cYou haven\u2019t forgiven us. The Bible says you\u2019re supposed to forgive. You haven\u2019t forgiven us; have you? Otherwise, you\u2019d let us watch the kids.\u201d They didn\u2019t care if he was acting like a Christian; they were trying to use Scripture to control him: \u201cWe want the kids,\u201d and he knew it wasn\u2019t safe. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe knew that he couldn\u2019t guarantee they wouldn\u2019t be exposed to something harmful or treated in a harmful way. It wasn\u2019t disrespectful to his parents. He just said: \u201cNo; they are not spending the night. You know what? If you go behind our back, and you try to manipulate the kids into spending time with you, we won\u2019t even be here <em>with<\/em> them; so you\u2019re going to respect our authority.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think, in some ways, that\u2019s the most loving thing to do to a toxic person. Because when you call them out on their toxicity, you may be the first person that says: \u201cThere is a price for the way that you\u2019ve become. I\u2019m not going to be manipulated.\u201d Jesus did that; Jesus was so loving to the repentant, but He didn\u2019t play games with the non-repentant. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I can imagine somebody standing up to a parent and saying, \u201cWe\u2019re going to put some boundaries here.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m turning the table now and thinking: \u201cWhat about the parent, who says, \u2018We\u2019re having everybody home for Christmas; but the one child in our family, who has been manifesting toxic behavior, doesn\u2019t get to come and join the family for Christmas?\u2019\u201d It now, all of a sudden, feels really hard, as a parent, to say, \u201cI\u2019m going to put boundaries around a child, who is toxic in the rest of the\u2026\u201d because, as parents, we\u2019re supposed to be the ones who can fix that and make that all better. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary:<\/strong> You know Jack Deere? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary:<\/strong> He mentioned this in his life, where he had a son, who is now deceased, was into drugs. He was toxic beyond his addiction\u2014it wasn\u2019t just addiction\u2014and he had given him chance after chance. Finally, this last chance, he brought him back. He was acting in such a toxic way that Jack\u2014they were on a trip\u2014the younger daughter hid herself in the bathroom and locked the door. He [Jack] realized: \u201cOkay; here is the thing. You are in rehab today, or you\u2019re out on the street; and everything is done.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe words he said are so severe for a parent, but they are necessary words. They are words of love. He said: \u201cI can\u2019t save you from yourself, but I can protect others from you,\u201d\u2014and pretty much\u2014\u201cthat\u2019s what you have forced me to do.\u201d I can\u2019t even imagine having to say that to a kid, but it\u2019s what you have to say. It\u2019s the most loving thing you can say; because ultimately, you are confronting them as Jesus did: \u201cYou are destroying yourself. This is not an acceptable way to behave. I\u2019m not going to cooperate with it. I\u2019m not going to enable it. I\u2019m saying, \u2018This stops.\u2019\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn the end, we\u2019re doing what Jesus did: \u201cTake up your cross and follow Me.\u201d There was a <em>stunning<\/em> example to me one time where\/remember when Jesus sent the pigs off a cliff?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary:<\/strong> The pig farmers\u2014and Jesus cast demon[s] out of a man, sends them in the pigs; they run off the =cliff. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat would any of us pay for a weekend ticket to hear Jesus in concert?\u2014we could see Him; we could hear Him; we watch real miracles, not fake miracles;\u00a0 right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary:<\/strong> For those of us that love Jesus, we\u2019re thinking, \u201cA weekend with Jesus\u2014\u2018Yes, empty the 401K,\u2019 \u2018Sell my\u2026\u2019\u201d\u2014whatever it is. These people had Jesus in the flesh, and what did they say to Him?\u2014\u201cPlease leave.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe <em>very<\/em> next verse, Matthew 9:1, Jesus got into a boat and sailed away\u2014He didn\u2019t walk away; He sailed away\u2014but He left. He didn\u2019t say, \u201cOh, come on\u2026\u201d That\u2019s where I think we have to be as parents; I think it\u2019s where we have to be as children; and sometimes, as spouses, and friends, and workers in the kingdom. That, at times, people will say, \u201cPlease leave.\u201d We\u2019re not controlling in return; we say, \u201cOkay.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Let\u2019s come back to what\u2019s at the heart of your thesis: \u201cWhy do we make the choice to walk away?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Gary:<\/strong> The reason I make the choice to walk away is because my life is set up on seeking, first, the kingdom of God and His righteousness and finding reliable people who I can invest in\u2014it\u2019s Matthew 6:33; 2 Timothy 2:2\u2014it\u2019s to have the positive life of offense. It\u2019s not because I\u2019m worried about being drained or being disturbed; I live to be drained and disturbed in kingdom work. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat I don\u2019t want to do is have unfruitful work. I don\u2019t want to try to plant flowers on stone. [Laughter] I want to go to the plowed fields that God has set up. The four words that have guided me so often in ministry: \u201cNo conviction; no counsel.\u201d If I don\u2019t think there is spiritual conviction there\/if I don\u2019t think the heart is prepared, I\u2019m not wasting my time. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That\u2019s pearls before swine; right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary:<\/strong> That is. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary:<\/strong> But it\u2019s that focus: \u201cI believe this is urgent work. It\u2019s a good work, bringing the kingdom of Jesus Christ\u2014His light, His love, His Lordship, His authority, His influence\u2014is so important. People will oppose it; people will hate it; people will resist it. My job is to have that extra-sensitive x-ray radar to find those that are reliable\/that will receive it, and to pour generously into them so that the kingdom work will go on, from generation to generation, until Christ returns.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I actually read this line in your book out loud to my wife. I mean, it\u2019s just what you just said; but you said it so well\u2014you said: \u201cIf you are in Christ, you aren\u2019t just saved; you\u2019re enlisted. You have been called to an important work, and there is no time to lose.\u201d It struck me again: \u201cWe forget that. It isn\u2019t just this little, \u2018I\u2019m a follower\u2019; I\u2019m enlisted\/I signed up; I\u2019ve got a job to do. I can\u2019t waste a <em>minute<\/em>, and I\u2019m not going to allow somebody to get me off course.\u201d It just inspired me as I read that. I\u2019m like, \u201cMan, this makes sense. There are times that you have to walk away to do the greater good.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary:<\/strong> When I was a much younger dad and husband, I worked with a toxic guy. What I regret most about that season\u2014I would come home; and I would be thinking about weird stuff, trying to make sense of weird stuff, trying to defend myself against weird stuff. I look at how young my kids were; and I would go back to me, as a father and a husband, now: \u201cGary, leave it at the office. Walk away mentally. Find out about your kids\u2019 day. Love on your kids. Share with your kids. Find out what your wife is thinking. You can\u2019t fix a toxic person; you shouldn\u2019t fret over a toxic person. Invest in the healthy relationships. Invest in the God-ordained relationships. When a relationship is distracting you from what God has called you to do, learn when to walk away.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> So good. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is where you need wisdom; you need godly counsel; you need prayer. These are not decisions that you make casually, and you don\u2019t make them based on self-interest. You make them based on kingdom-interest. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGary, that\u2019s what\u2019s at the heart of your book. I\u2019m grateful you wrote a non-Gary Thomas book like this\u2014[Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Me too. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014and gave us a lot to think about, and a lot to pray about, and a lot to help guide our relationships, and to promote healthy relationships, and to ask ourselves, \u201cAre there ways that I\u2019m being toxic or I\u2019m draining other people?\u201d I think that\u2019s a good diagnostic question for any of us. Gary, thanks for being on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary:<\/strong> Thank you so much. This place is a home away from home. I\u2019m so grateful for the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, we\u2019re grateful for you and grateful for the courage it took to write this book. In fact, we want to make the book available this week for <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners. Any of our listeners, who would like to get a copy of your book, <em>When to Walk Away, <\/em>it\u2019s available when you make a donation to support the ongoing work of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Your donations are the lifeblood of this ministry. We could not do what we\u2019re doing\u2014through this daily radio program, through our resources, our events, everything we\u2019ve got available on our website at FamilyLifeToday.com\u2014all of that happens because listeners, like you, make it happen when you donate. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> has been an encouragement to you\/if it has been used by God in your life\u2014and you\u2019d like to help make it available for other couples\/other individuals, who need the practical biblical help and hope that we are providing each day\u2014you can do that as you make a donation today and when you request your copy of Gary\u2019s book, <em>When to Walk Away<\/em>. You can donate online; our website is FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY to donate. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, the website, FamilyLifeToday.com. Be sure to request your copy of Gary\u2019s book when you donate, or call 1-800-358-6329; that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d Just say, \u201cI\u2019d like to make a donation to support <em>FamilyLife Today;<\/em> and I\u2019d like a copy of Gary Thomas\u2019s book, <em>When to Walk Away<\/em>.\u201d Thanks, in advance, for your support. We <em>really<\/em> do appreciate it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow, we want to talk about just how vital\/how important it is for us to be people who are grateful\u2014how important gratitude\/thankfulness is in our lives\u2014and how critical it is that we teach our kids to be grateful\/thankful boys and girls. Sam Crabtree\u2019s going to join us tomorrow to help us think through that. I hope you can be here with us as well.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch. We got some extra help from Bruce Goff today, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> of Little Rock, Arkansas; \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\ta Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2021 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:28:10"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["25.79M"],"filesize_raw":["27040806"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-306733.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-306733.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom 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the people in your family hurt you the most, what do you do? Gary Thomas explains that if a family member enjoys tearing you down and destroying the relationship, then it may be time to walk away.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2021-02-17.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>If you came from a dysfunctional family of origin, and now you\u2019re getting married, and you don\u2019t want those dysfunctions to follow you into your new marriage\/your new family, what do you do? Gary Thomas says what you don\u2019t do is try to go back, at the beginning of your new marriage, and fix what was broken in the family you grew up in.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary:<\/strong> I see this half the time, where suddenly they have this great marriage; they are starting a new family: \u201cOkay; now, it\u2019s time for me to go fix my childhood home.\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cThat is <em>wasting<\/em> your time. You <em>can\u2019t<\/em> have a healthy relationship with an unhealthy person. You need to walk away from what\u2019s destroying you, so you\u2019re building up a strong marriage. You have a chance to build a new family\/a new relationship; a new marriage takes a lot of time. Don\u2019t go back and try to parent your parents. Thank God that He has brought you to a new place, where you can be involved in a <em>healthy<\/em> relationship.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Wednesday, February 17<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I'm Bob Lepine. You can find us online at FamilyLifeToday.com. There may be a time in the future when you need to address relationship issues from your family of origin; but at the start of a new marriage, it\u2019s time to focus on leaving and cleaving. We\u2019re going to talk more about that today with Gary Thomas as we talk about toxic relationships. Stay with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. You know, it occurs to me that the reason that we have a radio program is because relationships are hard. [Laughter] I mean, let\u2019s just acknowledge\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> It\u2019s true. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cIf relationships were easy, no one would be tuning in and listening to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> They wouldn\u2019t need any help! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> But relationships are hard; because any time you are in a relationship, it\u2019s two sinful people. Our sinful tendencies manifest themselves; and it makes what we long for\u2014which is love\u2014it causes it to go sideways because of our sin. Sometimes, that gets extreme; and that\u2019s what we\u2019re talking about this week as we talk about toxic relationships. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019ve got Gary Thomas joining us, again, this week. Gary, welcome back. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary:<\/strong> Thank you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Gary is an author\/a speaker. He is on the pastoral staff at Second Baptist Church in Houston. He is the writer-in-residence there. He\u2019s the author of books that really have been widely influential in the church\u2014the books: <em>Sacred Marriage<\/em>, <em>Sacred Parenting<\/em>, <em>Sacred Influence<\/em>, and now this book, <em>When to Walk Away<\/em>. Really, a book\u2014I started this week by saying, \u201cYes; we\u2019re going to have Gary on whatever book he writes,\u201d\u2014but this is the least Gary Thomas book you\u2019ve written; don\u2019t you think? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary:<\/strong> It is. I would have never believed it, and it was difficult for me to put it down\u2014there were some truths in here that, honestly, are <em>painful<\/em>\u2014but I think necessary. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019ve got to tell you\u2014when I picked it up, I thought the same thing\u2014that: \u201cThis is Gary Thomas?!\u201d Then I started reading, and I <em>couldn\u2019t<\/em> put it down. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, I know. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You are hitting on something <em>so<\/em> <em>important<\/em>. It was a journey to go through; it was really very, very good. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> It\u2019s one thing\u2014if we\u2019ve got a friend, who we just look at and go: \u201cThis relationship is draining me,\u201d and \u201cI need to put some boundaries around it. I need to protect that,\u201d\u2014but when those relationships are blood\/when we\u2019re talking about our parents,\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014or when we\u2019re talking about siblings, or when we\u2019re talking about\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014children\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014then it gets real. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Now, all of a sudden: \u201cWhat do we do with that?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI know, as you got into these chapters in the later part of your book, you were walking into a minefield. You <em>knew<\/em> you were walking into a minefield; didn\u2019t you? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary:<\/strong> I certainly did. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Well, Gary, one of the chapters is about toxic parents. One of the Ten Commandments is to honor your father and mother. Then you start out saying, \u201cHow do we honor our <em>toxic <\/em>parents?\u201d That is really difficult, because God\u2019s calling us to honor them; but what if they are toxic? What does a toxic parent look like? Give us some examples. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary:<\/strong> If we go back to what we said a couple of days ago, if they are overly controlling, they are certainly acting in a toxic way. We talked yesterday about the difference between acting in a toxic way and actually being toxic, so you\u2019re trying to figure that out. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf they have a murderous spirit, where they are murdering your plans; they are murdering your joy; they are murdering sense of security; or murdering your independence, frankly; or if they love to hate\u2014if they enjoy tearing you down, if they enjoy cutting your feet out from under you, if they enjoy destroying your relationships\u2014that\u2019s a situation, where you realize, \u201cThis relationship isn\u2019t healthy for me.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019ve got to tell you\u2014I\u2019ve talked, so often, with couples, where I just\u2014one of my favorite things\/I love doing premarital counseling when I see this woman, who came out of a really dysfunctional home, and she chooses a great guy; because you know, sometimes, when you come out of a dysfunctional home\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary:<\/strong> \u2014you marry a guy, who is sort of like your dad\u2014but Jesus has redeemed him; He has restored him; He\u2019s renewed him. They have this great marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd then I see this half the time, where suddenly they have this great marriage; they are starting a new family: \u201cOkay; now, it\u2019s time for me to go fix my childhood home.\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cThat is <em>wasting<\/em> your time. You <em>can\u2019t<\/em> have a healthy relationship with an unhealthy person. You need to walk away from what\u2019s destroying you, so you\u2019re building up a strong marriage. You have a chance to build a new family\/a new relationship; a new marriage takes a lot of time.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLisa and I\u2014the first year of our marriage was the most difficult year of marriage. Sounds like, from <em>Vertical Marriage<\/em>, that was your\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> It was. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary:<\/strong> \u2014most difficult year. Don\u2019t go back and try to parent your parents. Thank God that He has brought you to a new place, where you can be involved in a <em>healthy<\/em> relationship. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Do you just cut yourself off from your dysfunctional family and your parents, who may exhibit toxic behavior?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary:<\/strong> Let me give two examples. There is one, where a woman had an older sister, who had made some really bad choices in life: was a single mom, had a baby. The younger sister had done so much right: she\u2019d gone to an Ivy League school; she was starting a business; she was following the Lord. It was <em>exciting<\/em>\u2014the doors that God opened up for her\u2014it\u2019s like she was a female Joseph; everything she did was being blessed. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, because she was now in the same city as her older sister, she would get these emergency babysitting calls: \u201cYou\u2019ve got to watch your niece.\u201d Because she owned the business, she was sort of able to do that; but she resented it. It was getting in the way of starting this off, because it takes a lot of energy. Thankfully, God brought her a great mentor, who just said to her: \u201cLook, neither your mom nor your sister know what it takes to succeed at this level. You are actually undercutting your ability to bless so many people with this new effort you have by doing these emergency babysitting calls.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tShe felt guilty when she looked at it through the lens of relationship; because the older sister would say: \u201cYou\u2019re a Christian. Aren\u2019t Christians supposed to help those in need?\u201d Her mom would say: \u201cYou\u2019ve got to help her. She doesn\u2019t have the advantages that you have had.\u201d Of course, the mentor could tell her: \u201cYou both grew up in the same home. She made some choices; this isn\u2019t about advantages.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>But when she <em>=<\/em> at her family dynamics through the sense of mission: \u201cGod has called me to do an important work in this world. I need to invest in reliable people,\u201d\u2014the people in her work\u2014\u201cand that I am actually hurting more people by doing this really childcare that isn\u2019t appropriate at this time.\u201d Now, she had a lens to say, \u201cIt was selfish for her to say, \u2018Yes,\u2019 to her sister and her mom.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn that situation, I believe that her mom was acting in a toxic manner; but her mom wasn\u2019t toxic. She didn\u2019t cut off the relationship there. Now, they weren\u2019t happy with her; but she has maintained that relationship. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tToxic\u2014where you need to walk away\u2014would be another couple, where the husband was married to a solid Christian woman; but his mom was either passive aggressive or not so passive aggressive and would just punish his wife. She couldn\u2019t do anything right: she wasn\u2019t parenting right; she didn\u2019t cook right; she didn\u2019t love her husband well enough\u2014it just drained her. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tShe just said to him, early in December: \u201cHoney, I\u2019m\/I just can\u2019t even bear the thought of spending Christmas with your mom this year.\u201d She goes: \u201cIt takes me months to [recover]. You know it\u2019s been a difficult fall,\u201d\u2014they had an issue with one of their kids\u2014she goes, \u201cI just don\u2019t know if I can do it.\u201d This guy\/he knew that his mom preached the gospel of family above all else, and not being there for Christmas would be an act of <em>war<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> There would be a backlash. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary:<\/strong> But he did the right thing. He realized, for that holiday, they needed to walk away. His wife needed to know, \u201cHoney, it\u2019s legitimate.\u201d It\u2019s not like she was being hyper-sensitive; he <em>knew<\/em> this was going on. It wasn\u2019t his wife being too sensitive; it was his mom being toxic toward his wife. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHere is what I say to couples in this situation\u2014because he said: \u201cGary, how can I do this? I\u2019m supposed to honor my father and mother,\u201d\u2014I said, \u201cYou honor your mom by acting as if she\u2019s healthy. If my son called me and said, \u2018Dad, for the sake of my marriage, we just can\u2019t spend Christmas with you,\u2019 I\u2019d be devastated; but I hope I would say: \u2018Son, I\u2019m proud of you. You\u2019re a husband first. You\u2019re putting your wife first. You\u2019re doing what you\u2019re supposed to do. You\u2019re being a good husband. Good for you. We\u2019ll miss you; but I\u2019m proud of you.\u2019\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s what I think a healthy parent would say. The fact that she <em>didn\u2019t<\/em> respond that way, in any remote way, I think, proves that she was acting in a toxic way. For that holiday, they had to walk away. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI tell younger couples\u2014I speak with the sentimentality of an empty-nester: \u201cIt\u2019s shocking how few Christmases you have when the kids are young. Then, when they get older\u2014and they start to go away, or they are on trips, or then they are bringing in boyfriends or girlfriends or now, spouses or whatnot\u2014it\u2019s very few. To sacrifice the wonder of a holiday with kids in a healthy situation, to appease a toxic parent, I think it\u2019s a poor life choice. It\u2019s not your fault; you\u2019re walking away from toxicity\u2014not out of meanness\/not out of disrespect\u2014but out of wanting to give your kids a healthy and, even, happy childhood.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I can\u2019t imagine. I mean, Gary, I know NFL players that I worked with for \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t33 seasons, who could <em>not<\/em> do what you are saying right there. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014in terms of saying, \u201cNo,\u201d to their family. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cThere is no way I can call my mom and say, \u2018I\u2019m not coming to Christmas.\u2019 It isn\u2019t going to happen. I just can\u2019t do that,\u201d\u2014you know?\u2014\u201cI\u2019m just going to endure.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI know counselors, who would say to that person: \u201cOh, just fake it. Just go there for a couple days. Fake it to make it and move on\u201d; but you\u2019re saying, \u201cYou\u2019ve got to make a hard choice.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary:<\/strong> I think we need to protect our family members from evil. When our kids were growing up, we talked a lot about Jesus; and I am thankful for that. I wish we had talked more about evil\u2014and how to deal with evil and evil people that might prey\u2014you can overdo it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary:<\/strong> You should emphasize Jesus ten times; but to <em>not<\/em> mention evil at all is to leave people ill-equipped. Jesus said many times: \u201cWatch out,\u201d \u201cBe on your guard.\u201d I mean, He told His disciples: \u201cI\u2019m the way, the truth, and the life. These are liars, murderers, and thieves.\u201d We need to, I think, model <em>and<\/em> speak the reality of evil in a fallen world. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We speak at the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> marriage getaways about God\u2019s plan for marriage. What\u2019s step one in God\u2019s plan for marriage?\u2014\u201cFor this cause\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cleave.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cyou will leave father and mother, and you will form a new priority relationship.\u201d When another person is not letting you leave and cleave, they are <em>attacking<\/em> your marriage relationship. They are doing harm to what God has said: \u201cThis needs to be the new priority relationship.\u201d That\u2019s where husbands and wives need to say\u2014and I\u2019ll just say moms and dads need to say\u2014\u201cThat ought to be the priority.\u201d As you said, the healthy parent ought to say: \u201cYou\u2019re making your marriage a priority. Good for you.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> If you can\u2019t say that, as a parent, you\u2019re the problem. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; and yet, to come and say: \u201cHey, I just heard this radio broadcast. I\u2019ve discovered, after listening to it, that your mother is evil. We\u2019re not going to go to Christmas this year,\u201d\u2014help us to know: \u201cHow do we say that if we feel that about our spouse\u2019s parents?\u201d That\u2019s kind of tricky. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary:<\/strong> Well, here is the thing\u2014I think you can recognize whether your spouse is up for it\/where we believe God is calling us to this as a mission. But it\u2019s sort of like, if you are compromised\/if your immune system is compromised, you don\u2019t go walk into a room of sick people. It is an art, where you\u2019re figuring out: \u201cOkay; [is] my spouse\u2014do I need to protect my spouse? Is this something we can do as an outreach?\u201d But then, you\u2019re also bringing in your kids. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnother circumstance is where a guy\u2014he had an abusive dad and an abusive mom\u2014she was verbally abusive; his dad was physically abusive. He became a Christian; and they ridiculed him: \u201cYes; we\u2019ll see what happens when you\u2019re in high school,\u201d \u201cWe\u2019ll see what happens when you\u2019re in college.\u201d Then they had kids, and his parents realized what they had missed; and they thought they would get a do-over with their grandkids. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, his dad was still drinking too much; his mom was still talking the same way\/in the same caustic way. The question came: \u201cWhen are the grandkids going to spend the weekend with us?\u201d He said: \u201cThey are not. They will not be at your house without us.\u201d They\u2019ll pulled out the card that toxic people use against Christians: \u201cYou haven\u2019t forgiven us. The Bible says you\u2019re supposed to forgive. You haven\u2019t forgiven us; have you? Otherwise, you\u2019d let us watch the kids.\u201d They didn\u2019t care if he was acting like a Christian; they were trying to use Scripture to control him: \u201cWe want the kids,\u201d and he knew it wasn\u2019t safe. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe knew that he couldn\u2019t guarantee they wouldn\u2019t be exposed to something harmful or treated in a harmful way. It wasn\u2019t disrespectful to his parents. He just said: \u201cNo; they are not spending the night. You know what? If you go behind our back, and you try to manipulate the kids into spending time with you, we won\u2019t even be here <em>with<\/em> them; so you\u2019re going to respect our authority.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think, in some ways, that\u2019s the most loving thing to do to a toxic person. Because when you call them out on their toxicity, you may be the first person that says: \u201cThere is a price for the way that you\u2019ve become. I\u2019m not going to be manipulated.\u201d Jesus did that; Jesus was so loving to the repentant, but He didn\u2019t play games with the non-repentant. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I can imagine somebody standing up to a parent and saying, \u201cWe\u2019re going to put some boundaries here.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m turning the table now and thinking: \u201cWhat about the parent, who says, \u2018We\u2019re having everybody home for Christmas; but the one child in our family, who has been manifesting toxic behavior, doesn\u2019t get to come and join the family for Christmas?\u2019\u201d It now, all of a sudden, feels really hard, as a parent, to say, \u201cI\u2019m going to put boundaries around a child, who is toxic in the rest of the\u2026\u201d because, as parents, we\u2019re supposed to be the ones who can fix that and make that all better. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary:<\/strong> You know Jack Deere? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary:<\/strong> He mentioned this in his life, where he had a son, who is now deceased, was into drugs. He was toxic beyond his addiction\u2014it wasn\u2019t just addiction\u2014and he had given him chance after chance. Finally, this last chance, he brought him back. He was acting in such a toxic way that Jack\u2014they were on a trip\u2014the younger daughter hid herself in the bathroom and locked the door. He [Jack] realized: \u201cOkay; here is the thing. You are in rehab today, or you\u2019re out on the street; and everything is done.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe words he said are so severe for a parent, but they are necessary words. They are words of love. He said: \u201cI can\u2019t save you from yourself, but I can protect others from you,\u201d\u2014and pretty much\u2014\u201cthat\u2019s what you have forced me to do.\u201d I can\u2019t even imagine having to say that to a kid, but it\u2019s what you have to say. It\u2019s the most loving thing you can say; because ultimately, you are confronting them as Jesus did: \u201cYou are destroying yourself. This is not an acceptable way to behave. I\u2019m not going to cooperate with it. I\u2019m not going to enable it. I\u2019m saying, \u2018This stops.\u2019\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn the end, we\u2019re doing what Jesus did: \u201cTake up your cross and follow Me.\u201d There was a <em>stunning<\/em> example to me one time where\/remember when Jesus sent the pigs off a cliff?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary:<\/strong> The pig farmers\u2014and Jesus cast demon[s] out of a man, sends them in the pigs; they run off the =cliff. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat would any of us pay for a weekend ticket to hear Jesus in concert?\u2014we could see Him; we could hear Him; we watch real miracles, not fake miracles;\u00a0 right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary:<\/strong> For those of us that love Jesus, we\u2019re thinking, \u201cA weekend with Jesus\u2014\u2018Yes, empty the 401K,\u2019 \u2018Sell my\u2026\u2019\u201d\u2014whatever it is. These people had Jesus in the flesh, and what did they say to Him?\u2014\u201cPlease leave.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe <em>very<\/em> next verse, Matthew 9:1, Jesus got into a boat and sailed away\u2014He didn\u2019t walk away; He sailed away\u2014but He left. He didn\u2019t say, \u201cOh, come on\u2026\u201d That\u2019s where I think we have to be as parents; I think it\u2019s where we have to be as children; and sometimes, as spouses, and friends, and workers in the kingdom. That, at times, people will say, \u201cPlease leave.\u201d We\u2019re not controlling in return; we say, \u201cOkay.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Let\u2019s come back to what\u2019s at the heart of your thesis: \u201cWhy do we make the choice to walk away?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Gary:<\/strong> The reason I make the choice to walk away is because my life is set up on seeking, first, the kingdom of God and His righteousness and finding reliable people who I can invest in\u2014it\u2019s Matthew 6:33; 2 Timothy 2:2\u2014it\u2019s to have the positive life of offense. It\u2019s not because I\u2019m worried about being drained or being disturbed; I live to be drained and disturbed in kingdom work. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat I don\u2019t want to do is have unfruitful work. I don\u2019t want to try to plant flowers on stone. [Laughter] I want to go to the plowed fields that God has set up. The four words that have guided me so often in ministry: \u201cNo conviction; no counsel.\u201d If I don\u2019t think there is spiritual conviction there\/if I don\u2019t think the heart is prepared, I\u2019m not wasting my time. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That\u2019s pearls before swine; right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary:<\/strong> That is. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary:<\/strong> But it\u2019s that focus: \u201cI believe this is urgent work. It\u2019s a good work, bringing the kingdom of Jesus Christ\u2014His light, His love, His Lordship, His authority, His influence\u2014is so important. People will oppose it; people will hate it; people will resist it. My job is to have that extra-sensitive x-ray radar to find those that are reliable\/that will receive it, and to pour generously into them so that the kingdom work will go on, from generation to generation, until Christ returns.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I actually read this line in your book out loud to my wife. I mean, it\u2019s just what you just said; but you said it so well\u2014you said: \u201cIf you are in Christ, you aren\u2019t just saved; you\u2019re enlisted. You have been called to an important work, and there is no time to lose.\u201d It struck me again: \u201cWe forget that. It isn\u2019t just this little, \u2018I\u2019m a follower\u2019; I\u2019m enlisted\/I signed up; I\u2019ve got a job to do. I can\u2019t waste a <em>minute<\/em>, and I\u2019m not going to allow somebody to get me off course.\u201d It just inspired me as I read that. I\u2019m like, \u201cMan, this makes sense. There are times that you have to walk away to do the greater good.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary:<\/strong> When I was a much younger dad and husband, I worked with a toxic guy. What I regret most about that season\u2014I would come home; and I would be thinking about weird stuff, trying to make sense of weird stuff, trying to defend myself against weird stuff. I look at how young my kids were; and I would go back to me, as a father and a husband, now: \u201cGary, leave it at the office. Walk away mentally. Find out about your kids\u2019 day. Love on your kids. Share with your kids. Find out what your wife is thinking. You can\u2019t fix a toxic person; you shouldn\u2019t fret over a toxic person. Invest in the healthy relationships. Invest in the God-ordained relationships. When a relationship is distracting you from what God has called you to do, learn when to walk away.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> So good. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is where you need wisdom; you need godly counsel; you need prayer. These are not decisions that you make casually, and you don\u2019t make them based on self-interest. You make them based on kingdom-interest. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGary, that\u2019s what\u2019s at the heart of your book. I\u2019m grateful you wrote a non-Gary Thomas book like this\u2014[Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Me too. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014and gave us a lot to think about, and a lot to pray about, and a lot to help guide our relationships, and to promote healthy relationships, and to ask ourselves, \u201cAre there ways that I\u2019m being toxic or I\u2019m draining other people?\u201d I think that\u2019s a good diagnostic question for any of us. Gary, thanks for being on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Gary:<\/strong> Thank you so much. This place is a home away from home. I\u2019m so grateful for the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, we\u2019re grateful for you and grateful for the courage it took to write this book. In fact, we want to make the book available this week for <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners. Any of our listeners, who would like to get a copy of your book, <em>When to Walk Away, <\/em>it\u2019s available when you make a donation to support the ongoing work of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Your donations are the lifeblood of this ministry. We could not do what we\u2019re doing\u2014through this daily radio program, through our resources, our events, everything we\u2019ve got available on our website at FamilyLifeToday.com\u2014all of that happens because listeners, like you, make it happen when you donate. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> has been an encouragement to you\/if it has been used by God in your life\u2014and you\u2019d like to help make it available for other couples\/other individuals, who need the practical biblical help and hope that we are providing each day\u2014you can do that as you make a donation today and when you request your copy of Gary\u2019s book, <em>When to Walk Away<\/em>. You can donate online; our website is FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY to donate. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, the website, FamilyLifeToday.com. Be sure to request your copy of Gary\u2019s book when you donate, or call 1-800-358-6329; that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d Just say, \u201cI\u2019d like to make a donation to support <em>FamilyLife Today;<\/em> and I\u2019d like a copy of Gary Thomas\u2019s book, <em>When to Walk Away<\/em>.\u201d Thanks, in advance, for your support. We <em>really<\/em> do appreciate it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow, we want to talk about just how vital\/how important it is for us to be people who are grateful\u2014how important gratitude\/thankfulness is in our lives\u2014and how critical it is that we teach our kids to be grateful\/thankful boys and girls. Sam Crabtree\u2019s going to join us tomorrow to help us think through that. I hope you can be here with us as well.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch. We got some extra help from Bruce Goff today, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> of Little Rock, Arkansas; \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\ta Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2021 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/306733","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=306733"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=306733"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=306733"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=306733"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=306733"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=306733"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=306733"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}