{"id":306712,"date":"2021-02-04T07:00:05","date_gmt":"2021-02-04T12:00:05","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/the-secret-of-leadership\/"},"modified":"2021-02-04T07:00:05","modified_gmt":"2021-02-04T12:00:05","slug":"the-secret-of-leadership","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/the-secret-of-leadership\/","title":{"rendered":"The Secret of Leadership"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>According to former ESPN commentator Jason Romano, the secret to leadership on the field and at home is simple and surprising.  The secret is service.  Join us on FamilyLife Today.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/fltoday.s3.us-east-1.amazonaws.com\/fl2021-02-04.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:27:44","filesize":"25.39M","filesize_raw":"26620641","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2826],"tags":[4299,4699,2916,4002],"podcast_series":[8427],"cwp_profile":[9692],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-306712","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-men","tag-faith","tag-leadership","tag-men","tag-reaching-out","podcast_series-the-uniform-of-leadership","cwp_profile-jason-romano","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/306712\/the-secret-of-leadership","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/306712\/the-secret-of-leadership","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"Nxg7U4WGdy\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/the-secret-of-leadership\/\">The Secret of Leadership<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/the-secret-of-leadership\/embed\/#?secret=Nxg7U4WGdy\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;The Secret of Leadership&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"Nxg7U4WGdy\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2021-02-04.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/fltoday.s3.us-east-1.amazonaws.com\/fl2021-02-04.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Every one of us is a leader; every one of us has influence over others. Jason Romano says the key to our leadership\/our effectiveness with others begins when we have the right perspective on life.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jason: <\/strong>Every single day we wake up, we have a choice to make on who we\u2019re going to serve. I look at it as this \u201cI am third,\u201d model. Hopefully, if you\u2019re a follower of Christ, you\u2019re going to look to serve the Lord first; but then, it\u2019s others second, and it\u2019s ourselves third. I think the best leaders\u2014stay-at-home moms all the way up to vice presidents of large corporations\u2014have to make a decision every day: \u201cWhat are they going to wear in terms of that uniform? Are they going to serve themselves first or are they going to serve God and then others first?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Thursday, February 4<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I'm Bob Lepine. You can find us online at FamilyLifeToday.com. There are principles of effective leadership that apply to every one of us, no matter what setting we\u2019re leading in. We\u2019re going to explore those principles with Jason Romano today. Stay with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. I know exactly what\u2019s going on here.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Uh-oh!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes; I mean\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>What\u2019s going on here, Bob?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You said, \u201cWe should have my friend, Jason, on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Oh, yes; Dave\u2019s been excited about this.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014\u201cto talk about leadership.\u201d I go, \u201cThis is because the game\u2019s coming up\u201d; right? You\u2019re thinking you guys can get together, you can talk football\/you can talk about what\u2019s going on. This has <em>nothing<\/em> to do with his book or leadership at all; does it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>No; it has nothing to do with anything but the game. [Laughter] The Detroit Lions are going to win this year! [Laughter] Oh wait; I forgot; they\u2019re not going again!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes, I don\u2019t think they\u2019re on the schedule for this one.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Not going to quite happen.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Tell everybody about your friend, Jason.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Well, Jason Romano\u2019s with us. I don\u2019t know when we first <em>met<\/em>. Do you know, Jason?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jason: <\/strong>The first time I actually <em>introduced<\/em> myself was when I had you on my show\/on my podcast, and we talked about <em>Vertical Marriage<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>That was it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jason: <\/strong>But I\u2019ve <em>watched<\/em> you at our conferences with PAO [Pro Athletes Outreach] come and speak. I kind of, from a glance, knew who you were.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes; this is Jason that was with ESPN for 17 years?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jason: <\/strong>Yes; right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes; and you\u2019ll tell us a little bit about some of the jobs you did. But now, it\u2019s pretty exciting what you\u2019re doing; and we\u2019ll hear about that as well. You left ESPN to sort of go to a higher calling.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jason: <\/strong>Yes, exactly.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>We\u2019ve been involved together with Pro Athletes Outreach, which many people don\u2019t know about. It\u2019s a beautiful ministry that does conferences for pro athletes\u2014baseball, football, I think there\u2019s a NASCAR one, hockey\u2014you name it. They bring in speakers; Ann and I have been there for 20 years, or so, doing stuff on marriage to help NFL couples. A lot of people come to Christ at that conference.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jason: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>The last one we did for baseball\u2014Mr. Emcee over there\u2014Jason Romano was hosting the whole thing and did a great job: interviewed Darryl Strawberry and different things were happening. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou\u2019ve written a couple of books. The first one\u2014I hope we talk about this a little bit, even though today\u2019s not about your forgiveness journey with your dad\u2014that one was called <em>Live to Forgive.<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>\u00a0<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jason: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I have a similar journey; so when I read that, I was like, \u201cMan, I\u2019ve been there.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis one is <em>The Uniform of Leadership<\/em>. Talk about that; why did you even decide to write a book on leadership?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jason: <\/strong>First of all, I never wanted to be an author; I never wanted to write. That wasn\u2019t the goal when I was in high school or college\u2014it was to get into broadcasting\u2014it was never to write books. But once you come through 17 years of working at ESPN, the most consistent question I get is: \u201cWhat was it like?\u201d and \u201cWho are some of the famous people that you got to hang out with? What were some of the stories?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI have a lot of them; and I thought, \u201cWhat if I shared the stories that I experienced at ESPN with some of the famous people and some people that you would not have heard of?\u2014but come from a biblical perspective (a) but, also, from a leadership perspective?\u2014\u2018What were the leadership lessons that I learned from spending time or going through these experiences at ESPN?\u2019\u201d That\u2019s where <em>The Uniform of Leadership<\/em> was born.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, and we should start right off by saying you\u2019re not just talking about CEOs in corporate America or people who are captains of industry. When you talk about leadership, everybody\u2019s a leader at some level; aren\u2019t they?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jason: <\/strong>Absolutely. It\u2019s funny; I was preaching at my church when the book released back in the summer. We\u2019re not fully reopened, but we were open enough in Connecticut at our church. This sweet old lady, probably in her late 70s, comes up; and she looks at me and she goes, \u201cIt\u2019s really nice that you wrote a book, but I\u2019m <em>not<\/em> a leader.\u201d You know, they\u2019re very bold and very open\u2014a lot of these older ladies\u2014and I love that!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tShe\u2019s like, \u201cI don\u2019t <em>need<\/em> your book, because I\u2019m not a <em>leader<\/em>.\u201d I said, \u201cWell, let me ask you a question.\u201d I said, \u201cAre you a mom? Are you a grandmother?\u201d She\u2019s like, \u201cYes, I\u2019m a mom.\u201d I said, \u201cThat qualifies you as a <em>leader<\/em>. In fact, if you\u2019re breathing, you\u2019re, in essence, a leader,\u201d because leadership isn\u2019t about\u2014like you say, CEOs, or power, or titles, or status\u2014it\u2019s about influence, and it\u2019s about serving.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>You\u2019re saying the stay-at-home mom\u2014who has a two-year-old, a four-year-old, and a six-year-old\u2014you\u2019re saying, \u201cYou are a <em>leader<\/em>; you\u2019re an <em>influencer<\/em>.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jason: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>That\u2019s important for us to remember; because sometimes at that point of life, we feel like, \u201cI\u2019m having <em>no<\/em> influence; I have <em>no<\/em> life,\u201d but we really do. We\u2019re leaders in our family.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jason: <\/strong>Oh, absolutely, especially if leadership is influence, which I believe it is\/if leadership is serving, which Jesus said\u2014He\u2019s the ultimate leader\u2014\u201cI came not to <em>be<\/em> served but to serve.\u201d If <em>Jesus<\/em> is modeling that, then yes, I think, if you\u2019re a stay-at-home mom or even just a parent\u2014whatever situation you\u2019re in\u2014you\u2019re a leader. That\u2019s your number-one first priority of being a leader: is your family and people at home. I think we get leadership kind of mixed up, because we think it\u2019s just business; but leadership is more than title; it\u2019s really influence.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>It is interesting\u2014because obviously, we\u2019re older\u2014we\u2019re not as old as that grandma, but we\u2019re not far away from her. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes we are! [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes, we\u2019re a long, long way away from that! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong><em>Years<\/em> to go, Dave.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>We\u2019re years\/decades away from that! [Laughter] But you know, as I remember the days when Ann\u2019s talking about\u2014because when she said that question, I\u2019m like, \u201cShe\u2019s remembering four-year-old, two-year-old poopy diapers\u2014the whole thing.\u201d She would often state that to me\u2014usually at night, exhausted when we hit the sack, and try to get two hours of sleep, maybe\u2014she would say, \u201cI\u2019m doing nothing with my life,\u201d\u2014you know\u2014\u201cI\u2019m just a mom. I\u2019m at home all day; I\u2019m just chasing kids around; I\u2019m disciplining; I\u2019m exhausted; I\u2019m not doing anything.\u201d I\u2019d be saying what you\u2019re saying, Jason: \u201cOh no, you\u2019re a\u2026\u201d; but it\u2019s hard to <em>feel<\/em> that way at that point. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHere\u2019s where I\u2019m going with this\u2014you <em>call<\/em> your book <em>The Uniform of Leadership<\/em>\u2014I\u2019m like, \u201cWhat do you mean by that?\u201d But as I read it, I\u2019m like, Oh, there\u2019s this jersey\u201d\u2014and obviously, you connect it to sports.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jason: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Talk about that; because that\u2019s the thing that a mom, or dad, or anybody needs to realize\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>\u2014or grandparents.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u201cI am putting on a jersey.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jason: <\/strong>\u2014every day.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>What does that\u2014because that\u2019s a metaphor you use\u2014explain that, because I think that works. When you understand that, it changes your perspective.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jason: <\/strong>Well, it\u2019s certainly connected to sports, of course; because that\u2019s what I\u2019ve lived through\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u2014because everything <em>is<\/em>; right? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jason: <\/strong>Of course\u2014right Dave?\u2014come on now; sports is everything! [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNo; when I wake up every day, I make a decision on who I\u2019m going to serve first; that\u2019s kind of how I looked at this. So many times in my daily walk, my flesh kicks in\/my ego kicks in; and the idea of serving goes completely to serving <em>me<\/em>. But every single day we wake up, we have a choice to make on who we\u2019re going to serve. I look at it as this \u201cI am third,\u201d model, which I talked about in the book. Hopefully, if you\u2019re a follower of Christ and you\u2019re listening to this, you\u2019re going to look to serve the Lord first; but then, it\u2019s others second, and it\u2019s ourselves third. It\u2019s this \u201cI am third\u201d: God first, others second, ourselves third. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe uniform of leadership\u2014putting on that uniform every day\u2014think about a uniform and what it looks like; right? Especially, I use the example of the New York Mets; that\u2019s the baseball team that I grew up watching. It\u2019s been a long time since they\u2019ve won anything, as well, Dave; but the uniform that the Mets\u2019 wear has the Mets\u2019 name on the front, and it has the name of the player on the <em>back<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf I\u2019m waking up every day, and I\u2019m choosing to serve others first, I\u2019m wearing my uniform properly. But for so many of us\u2014I don\u2019t care what you believe but, especially, even as Christians\u2014we wake up; and the very first thing we think about is ourselves and taking care of ourselves; and \u201cWhat is this day going to be like for Jason?\u201d I\u2019m wearing, in that sense, the uniform of leadership <em>backwards<\/em>. The name on the back is who I\u2019m playing for, not the name on the <em>front<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s where, every single day, when we wake up, we have a choice to make. I think the best leaders\u2014stay-at-home moms all the way up to vice presidents of large corporations\u2014have to make a decision every day: \u201cWhat are they going to wear in terms of that uniform? Are they going to serve themselves first?\u2014or are they going to serve God and then others first?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes; as you know, the jersey in a sports situation is revered in a sense, especially, by the athlete. I mean, obviously\/you know, I was the chaplain for \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t33 seasons in the NFL. An NFL jersey\u2014same thing as a major league or soccer; you name it\u2014when you get to that level, and they put your name on a Lions\u2019 jersey, it is like it changes who you are.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jason: <\/strong>It\u2019s an identifier.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes; you step up, like, \u201cI\u2019m putting on this jersey right now; I have to represent that.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne of the things I did <em>years<\/em> ago\u2014and it\u2019s your \u201cleadership is serving\u201d thing\u2014one day, after a Lions game\/another loss, I\u2019m standing there [Laughter]\u2014I mean, probably, \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t20 years in as being a chaplain\u2014and what I typically would do after a game is just sort of be there; you know, walk around, talk to guys in front of the locker. Often, they\u2019ve lost; so we\u2019re talking about that. Maybe a guy got injured\u2014whatever\u2014I\u2019m trying to be pastoral and a light for Christ in the locker room.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHere\u2019s what happened. I\u2019m standing there, one day, looking around, thinking, \u201cWhat\u2019s the <em>best<\/em> thing I could do right now to <em>lead<\/em> in this moment?\u201d I\u2019m looking at this locker room, like, \u201cI\u2019m going to do the same thing again; I\u2019m going to walk over and talk to that guy and that guy.\u201d Some of them want to talk to you, some of them will just get their stuff and get out of there.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHere\u2019s what hits me: \u201cI should <em>help<\/em>. I should <em>serve<\/em>. What\u2019s that look like?\u201d I\u2019m watching the equipment guys; there are about seven or eight of them. Two or three are paid; the rest are volunteers. They are packing up all the guys\u2019 stuff\u2014cleats, shoulder pads, helmets, jerseys, pants\u2014everything goes in a bag\/the whole thing. I\u2019m watching this; and I\u2019m like, \u201cHey, I\u2019ll go help those guys.\u201d They actually put on hospital gloves because of blood and stuff on the jerseys. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLong story short, I go over to the equipment guys and go, \u201cHey, man, where do you get those gloves? I want to help you.\u201d You know what the guy says? \u201cOh yes, like <em>you\u2019re<\/em> going to help!\u201d I go, \u201cNo; can I <em>not<\/em> help?\u201d He goes, \u201cDude, you\u2019re the chaplain. Get out of here; go do your spiritual thing.\u201d That\u2019s what he said.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Wow; wow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>He was sort of mad at me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI kept looking around, like, \u201cOh, the gloves are in the training room!\u201d I went and got them, and I just started looking at what they did.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBy the way, one of the hardest things to do is take an NFL jersey off shoulder pads! They\u2019re <em>taped<\/em> on! [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jason: <\/strong>Yes, it is.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>You have to <em>peel<\/em> them off, so that took some work.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnyway, long story short, I started doing that <em>every<\/em> game. I never was asked, just started doing it. All I know is, like the third game, I memorized\u2014I was kneeling down in front of Josh McCown\u2019s locker, and I\u2019m pulling this thing off. He leans over and goes [whispering], \u201cI see what you\u2019re doing.\u201d I go, \u201cWhat do you mean? What am I doing?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe goes [whispering], \u201cYou\u2019re being Jesus, man!\u201d He goes, \u201cThe <em>whole<\/em> room is watching you.\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cWhat?!\u201d He goes, \u201cDude, everybody\u2019s seen this. They can\u2019t understand why the chaplain is doing something he\u2019s not supposed to be doing.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI realized I was leading by <em>serving<\/em>. I tell you what; the next thing I know, the equipment guys are like, \u201cHey, dude, come back here!\u201d I\u2019m in the back of the bus with them; I get a jacket on the sideline\u2014I never [before] got any clothes on the sideline\u2014they\u2019re like, \u201cYes; look at him; he\u2019s just a chaplain.\u201d But I became one of their <em>best<\/em> friends, you know?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>When things were going on in their life, they are calling me up. They were texting me: \u201cHey, give me your number,\u201d and I\u2019m in. I thought, \u201cAll that was <em>serving<\/em>,\u201d\u2014which is leadership\u2014that\u2019s what you keep talking about over and over in your book.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jason: <\/strong>It\u2019s Jesus saying, \u201cDeny yourself\u201d; right? I mean, that\u2019s what it <em>is<\/em>; that\u2019s the perfect example.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI remember, at ESPN one time, we had Colt McCoy. Do you guys remember Colt?\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Sure!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jason: <\/strong>\u2014played with Texas; I think he\u2019s with the New York Giants this season. Colt came to ESPN; and at that time, he was a highly-touted, Heisman trophy-type candidate, coming to ESPN to do a bunch of interviews. He had his Texas\/he went to University of Texas, Longhorns\/had his Longhorn staff with him. Usually it was about six\/seven deep when we would welcome a guest to ESPN and take them around.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe ended up in the cafeteria for about an hour before one of our next interviews. ESPN cafeteria\u2014real big; picture a college campus\u2014and that\u2019s ESPN, in that sense. We go to the cafeteria; and for some reason, one of the requests was to get a couple gallons of <em>milk<\/em>. It was in the morning; people wanted\u2014I don\u2019t even remember; like, \u201cHow do we have gallons of milk at ESPN?\u201d\u2014[Laughter]\u2014but what I do remember was I was the one responsible for getting those gallons and making sure that whoever was requesting them was taken care of.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHere\u2019s Colt McCoy; when everybody else is sitting and watching me struggle with two gallons of milk, and these other things that I\u2019m carrying, Colt gets up, comes over; he grabs a couple of gallons off me\u2014he\u2019s like, \u201cI got you, man. Let me take this for you.\u201d This is very small; you\u2019d say, \u201cHopefully, any human that would see that would help\u201d; but nobody else got up. Now, Colt was the <em>last<\/em> person I thought would get up; because he\u2019s Colt McCoy! At that point, just be\u2014\u201cYou\u2019re our guest here. Be the superstar; be the Heisman trophy candidate,\u201d\u2014but he got up.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s little things like that\u2014like what <em>you<\/em> [Dave] did; like what Colt does\u2014that I think (a) represents who Christ is; (b) is the ultimate representation of what leadership is about.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes; thinking about what you\u2019ve said in your book about\u2014\u201cServing is leadership; leadership is serving,\u201d\u2014I thought, \u201cHere\u2019s what happened to me. I stood in the locker room, I saw a need; I met it. I come home; I don\u2019t do the same thing.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>That\u2019s what I was going to ask.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Oh, there she goes!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I was going to ask, \u201cIs it harder to <em>serve<\/em> at home than it is at work?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jason: <\/strong>I think <em>so<\/em>; I think because you become <em>comfortable<\/em> at home. You come set in your ways. I have this struggle. I have no problem when I\u2019m here with you guys, or I\u2019m at work, or I\u2019m out; and I come home and it\u2019s like, \u201cWhat are we having for dinner, honey?\u201d My mind goes right to where I\u2019m comfortable.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>\u201cServe me.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u201cWho\u2019s going to serve me?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jason: <\/strong>Correct!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jason: <\/strong>You have to remember the love languages here\u2014that\u2019s another whole story for another time\u2014\u201cWhat\u2019s my wife\u2019s love language?\u201d Well, <em>hers<\/em> is acts of service. I have to get up, and I have to serve her and help her; and that\u2019s not my love language.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I\u2019m going to give you all a secret: \u201cServing is pretty much <em>everybody\u2019s<\/em> love language.\u201d [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jason: <\/strong>Ah, so true.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Think about this: I mean, when we get up, we go to work; and then work is over, and we go home to\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jason: <\/strong>\u2014rest; yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>And women get up and go to work,\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>\u2014and then they come home to go to <em>work<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I\u2019m thinking about a friend of mine, who years ago, told me this; I thought this was so smart. He said, \u201cWhen I leave the office in the afternoon, there\u2019s a spot that\u2019s about a mile from where I live.\u201d He said, \u201cI will pull off for about five minutes before I get home\u201d; and he says, \u201cand I will tell myself, \u2018You are about to go to your second job, and you better strap it on and be just as good there.\u2019\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou\u2019re not going home to rest and be served; you\u2019re going into the next area of where you\u2019re hired to work.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>It\u2019s really your most important job.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jason: <\/strong>That\u2019s a <em>great<\/em> point.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I\u2019m just going to\u2014just a tip, because I used to do this; and it was <em>wrong<\/em>\u2014I would say things to Dave like: \u201cI wish I could get home and sit on the couch,\u201d \u201cI wish I could come home and\u2026\u201d\u2014that <em>does not<\/em> work. [Laughter] It doesn\u2019t; does it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Does not motivate a husband.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jason: <\/strong>I\u2019m going to give you my wife\u2019s number. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I was sarcastic; I was hoping Dave would get the point. I wish I would have just gone in, sat on the couch or done whatever, and said, \u201cHoney, I really need your help right now\u201d; because I <em>assumed<\/em> [beforehand] that he knew it; I <em>assumed<\/em> that he would get up.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHere\u2019s another tip: \u201cTell them exactly what you would like them to do.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>The wife who says, \u201cAnd I\u2019ve tried that; and my husband goes, \u201cCan you just give me 15 minutes to just chill?; or he goes [sighing deeply], \u2018Ahhh, okay; what do you need me to do\u2026\u2019\u201d And she goes, \u201cI don\u2019t\u2026\u201d The next day, she just\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Then she says, \u201cForget it; I\u2019ll do it myself.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I\u2019ve heard those exact words!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jason: <\/strong>Oh, so have I.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I\u2019m like, \u201cI just said I\u2019d do it!\u201d \u201cNo, you didn\u2019t say you\u2019d do it; you said [huffing]4, \u2018Okay\u2026\u2019\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Okay; Mr. Leadership, how can that wife\u2014is there anything <em>you\u2019d<\/em> recommend to her to do?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I love it; you called him Mr. Leadership! [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jason: <\/strong>Oh, I\u2019m going to get in <em>so<\/em> much trouble! Listen, I\u2019ve been married 21 years, and I\u2019m not perfect by any means; but I will say a lot of what you explained I live through every day. Now, it\u2019s important to communicate; and that\u2019s on both ends. Remember, too, that communication is part of the leadership model. You really have to talk; you have to explain sometimes\u2014guys need this more than women\u2014exactly what you <em>want<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRemember that it\u2019s different situations. My wife works in a job, where she\u2019s not sort of happy all the time in her role, whereas I\u2019m like: \u201cI get to do sports, and I get to interview all these people,\u201d and \u201cGuess what I did!\u201d I\u2019m very rarely in a \u201cbad mood\u201d coming from work, and that was the same way at ESPN. So it\u2019s different, but I think communication has to be vital.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I know, for Ann, she\u2019s joking; but she would come in, and sit on the couch, and be mad at me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jason: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Then, when she started coming in on the couch and encouraging me\u2014I don\u2019t know; it was a different response\u2014again, she wasn\u2019t saying, \u201cHey, it\u2019s awesome; you\u2019re sitting there, watching the game, and not helping me,\u201d\u2014but no; you started to speak life into things that I <em>was<\/em> doing well.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>\u2014to even thank you, like, \u201cHey, thanks for doing the dishes tonight; that was a <em>huge<\/em> help.\u201d That motivated you so much, like, \u201cOh, maybe I should do that <em>again<\/em>,\u201d instead of me saying, \u201cWell, about time you did the dishes! I do them <em>every<\/em> night.\u201d I think that really is important in how we speak.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Mary Ann and I were at a Bible study one time, and the question that everybody\u2014kind of the opener question was\u2014\u201cWhat\u2019s something your spouse has done recently that you found romantic?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m waiting, as we\u2019re going around the circle, thinking\u2014[Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Why is everybody laughing right now?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I\u2019m thinking, \u201cWhat is she going to say?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u201cWhat\u2019s she going to come up with?\u201d I\u2019m starting to think, \u201cWhat have I done romantic in the last\u2026\u201d I\u2019m thinking she\u2019s going to go back to college when were dating! [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>You reached over and grabbed her hand right then! [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I\u2019m waiting to see what she\u2019s going to say. It gets to her; and she said, \u201cWell, I\u2019ll tell you. This was last week. I was in the kitchen; I was doing the dishes. Without me saying anything, Bob got up, and came in, and grabbed a dish towel, and started drying dishes; and I didn\u2019t even ask him to.\u201d She said, \u201cThat was so romantic!\u201d [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes, Bob! Yes!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I\u2019m going, \u201cThat was <em>romantic<\/em>? Are you kidding me?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>You know what it was?\u2014you put on the home jersey.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jason: <\/strong>Yes, you wore the uniform properly.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I can tell you what\u2014then, every time I grabbed a dish towel from then, she goes, \u201cI know what you\u2019re doing, and I know what you\u2019re <em>thinking<\/em>. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u201cIt\u2019s not going to end up that way!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u201cIt\u2019s not going to work!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jason: <\/strong>\u201cFind another way.\u201d [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI will say, too, what you said, Ann, was beautiful; because if you come in and you encourage Dave: \u201cThank you for doing the dishes\u201d; Dave\u2019s going to be like, \u201cOkay, I\u2019m going to bat for Ann.\u201d You love each other anyway; but you\u2019re going to go to battle for that woman on <em>anything<\/em>, because you feel loved; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn the business world, that\u2019s the same way. We talk about bosses: the greatest leaders I\u2019ve seen are people who show caring and love; and they invest in the person\u2014not just in the employee; right?\u2014relational equity that you\u2019re building. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think if somebody shows me\u2014I\u2019ve had great leaders, who were my bosses\u2014but I\u2019ve also had some bosses, who weren\u2019t necessarily great leaders; but the ones, who loved me, who cared for me, who went and invested into me, I was going to go to battle for that person.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jason: <\/strong>I\u2019ll do anything they want, because I know that they care about <em>me<\/em>. I think that transfers over to the home.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Oh, yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jason: <\/strong>You know, if you show each other that you care for each other\u2014and even just picking up the dish towel, and doing the dishes, and drying them off without being asked\u2014I think my wife would flip if I started vacuuming in the house without being asked.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Jason, yes; do this!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jason: <\/strong>So I have to go home and do that tonight! [Laughter] But that\u2019s a way of showing that you care\u2014and then she\u2019s going to go to battle for me; I\u2019m going to go to battle for her\u2014and that just makes the relationship so much better.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes; I mean, one of the themes in your book, over and over, is the people part.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jason: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Leadership isn\u2019t just tasks and accomplishing great goals; it\u2019s all about seeing people, caring for people, people feeling loved by you. I just thought it\u2019s easy to do that, for me, in the locker room or at church; it\u2019s harder to do that when I walk in the door. But who are the most <em>valuable<\/em> people in my life\/in our lives?\u2014our wives\/our kids; your spouse\/your children.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jason: <\/strong>Yes; it\u2019s your first line of defense.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>They\u2019re more important than the people you work with\u2014I\u2019m not saying they\u2019re not\/they matter\u2014but it\u2019s so easy to walk in the door and have, you know, \u201cMy boss is a 10; my wife\u2019s a 7,\u201d\u2014what?!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I think the two words that we started with\u2014influence and service as the definition of leadership\u2014everybody\u2019s an influencer, and everybody has opportunities to serve. You\u2019re a leader as a mom, as a dad, a husband, a wife; even teenagers, who are listening\u2014you\u2019re a leader.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jason: <\/strong>Absolutely.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Use that influence; serve others. Get a copy of Jason\u2019s book, <em>The Uniform of Leadership: Lessons on True Success from My ESPN Life<\/em>. We have copies of Jason\u2019s book in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. You can order it from us, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY to get a copy. Again, the title of the book is <em>The Uniform of Leadership<\/em> by Jason Romano. It\u2019s available, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or call if you\u2019d like to order a copy. Our number is 1-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to come back to those two words we\u2019ve talked about, service and influence. Here, at FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, we\u2019re committed to doing everything we can do to help <em>you<\/em> serve and influence others more effectively in your marriage, in your family, in your community. We want to help you effectively develop a godly marriage and family. We believe godly marriages and families can change the world one home at a time.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThose of you, who are regular listeners, you\u2019ve heard us say this often, but it is your financial support of this ministry that makes all we do here at FamilyLife possible. The handful of listeners in every city, who support this ministry, either with one-time donations or as monthly Legacy Partners, you guys are partnering with us to reach more people more often through this radio program, our podcasts, through what you hear online; all of the different ways that <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is now available. You can ask Alexa<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> to play today\u2019s edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> if you want. You make all of this possible when you support this ministry, and we\u2019re grateful for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn fact, this week, we have been offering a new resource, a book by Joe Rigney called <em>More Than a Battle<\/em>. It\u2019s a gift to those of you who can help support this ministry. Joe tackles one of the tough issues of our day\u2014the issue of pornography\u2014and gets to the root causes of pornography to help men and women get free from the bondage that so many people are experiencing in this area. The book, <em>More Than a Battle<\/em>, is our gift to you when you make a donation today to support the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. You can do that online at FamilyLifeToday.com, or you can call to donate at 1-800-FL-TODAY. We are grateful for your partnership with us; and thanks, in advance, for your support.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe hope you can join us, again, tomorrow as we continue to talk about what effective leadership looks like in the home, in the workplace, in the community\u2014how we can <em>all<\/em> do a better job of serving and influencing others. Jason Romano joins us, again, tomorrow. We hope you can join us as well.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2021 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:27:44"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["25.39M"],"filesize_raw":["26620641"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-306712.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-306712.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom 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to former ESPN commentator Jason Romano, the secret to leadership on the field and at home is simple and surprising. The secret is service. Join us on FamilyLife Today.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2021-02-04.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Every one of us is a leader; every one of us has influence over others. Jason Romano says the key to our leadership\/our effectiveness with others begins when we have the right perspective on life.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jason: <\/strong>Every single day we wake up, we have a choice to make on who we\u2019re going to serve. I look at it as this \u201cI am third,\u201d model. Hopefully, if you\u2019re a follower of Christ, you\u2019re going to look to serve the Lord first; but then, it\u2019s others second, and it\u2019s ourselves third. I think the best leaders\u2014stay-at-home moms all the way up to vice presidents of large corporations\u2014have to make a decision every day: \u201cWhat are they going to wear in terms of that uniform? Are they going to serve themselves first or are they going to serve God and then others first?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Thursday, February 4<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I'm Bob Lepine. You can find us online at FamilyLifeToday.com. There are principles of effective leadership that apply to every one of us, no matter what setting we\u2019re leading in. We\u2019re going to explore those principles with Jason Romano today. Stay with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. I know exactly what\u2019s going on here.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Uh-oh!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes; I mean\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>What\u2019s going on here, Bob?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You said, \u201cWe should have my friend, Jason, on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Oh, yes; Dave\u2019s been excited about this.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014\u201cto talk about leadership.\u201d I go, \u201cThis is because the game\u2019s coming up\u201d; right? You\u2019re thinking you guys can get together, you can talk football\/you can talk about what\u2019s going on. This has <em>nothing<\/em> to do with his book or leadership at all; does it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>No; it has nothing to do with anything but the game. [Laughter] The Detroit Lions are going to win this year! [Laughter] Oh wait; I forgot; they\u2019re not going again!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes, I don\u2019t think they\u2019re on the schedule for this one.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Not going to quite happen.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Tell everybody about your friend, Jason.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Well, Jason Romano\u2019s with us. I don\u2019t know when we first <em>met<\/em>. Do you know, Jason?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jason: <\/strong>The first time I actually <em>introduced<\/em> myself was when I had you on my show\/on my podcast, and we talked about <em>Vertical Marriage<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>That was it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jason: <\/strong>But I\u2019ve <em>watched<\/em> you at our conferences with PAO [Pro Athletes Outreach] come and speak. I kind of, from a glance, knew who you were.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes; this is Jason that was with ESPN for 17 years?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jason: <\/strong>Yes; right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes; and you\u2019ll tell us a little bit about some of the jobs you did. But now, it\u2019s pretty exciting what you\u2019re doing; and we\u2019ll hear about that as well. You left ESPN to sort of go to a higher calling.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jason: <\/strong>Yes, exactly.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>We\u2019ve been involved together with Pro Athletes Outreach, which many people don\u2019t know about. It\u2019s a beautiful ministry that does conferences for pro athletes\u2014baseball, football, I think there\u2019s a NASCAR one, hockey\u2014you name it. They bring in speakers; Ann and I have been there for 20 years, or so, doing stuff on marriage to help NFL couples. A lot of people come to Christ at that conference.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jason: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>The last one we did for baseball\u2014Mr. Emcee over there\u2014Jason Romano was hosting the whole thing and did a great job: interviewed Darryl Strawberry and different things were happening. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou\u2019ve written a couple of books. The first one\u2014I hope we talk about this a little bit, even though today\u2019s not about your forgiveness journey with your dad\u2014that one was called <em>Live to Forgive.<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>\u00a0<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jason: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I have a similar journey; so when I read that, I was like, \u201cMan, I\u2019ve been there.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis one is <em>The Uniform of Leadership<\/em>. Talk about that; why did you even decide to write a book on leadership?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jason: <\/strong>First of all, I never wanted to be an author; I never wanted to write. That wasn\u2019t the goal when I was in high school or college\u2014it was to get into broadcasting\u2014it was never to write books. But once you come through 17 years of working at ESPN, the most consistent question I get is: \u201cWhat was it like?\u201d and \u201cWho are some of the famous people that you got to hang out with? What were some of the stories?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI have a lot of them; and I thought, \u201cWhat if I shared the stories that I experienced at ESPN with some of the famous people and some people that you would not have heard of?\u2014but come from a biblical perspective (a) but, also, from a leadership perspective?\u2014\u2018What were the leadership lessons that I learned from spending time or going through these experiences at ESPN?\u2019\u201d That\u2019s where <em>The Uniform of Leadership<\/em> was born.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, and we should start right off by saying you\u2019re not just talking about CEOs in corporate America or people who are captains of industry. When you talk about leadership, everybody\u2019s a leader at some level; aren\u2019t they?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jason: <\/strong>Absolutely. It\u2019s funny; I was preaching at my church when the book released back in the summer. We\u2019re not fully reopened, but we were open enough in Connecticut at our church. This sweet old lady, probably in her late 70s, comes up; and she looks at me and she goes, \u201cIt\u2019s really nice that you wrote a book, but I\u2019m <em>not<\/em> a leader.\u201d You know, they\u2019re very bold and very open\u2014a lot of these older ladies\u2014and I love that!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tShe\u2019s like, \u201cI don\u2019t <em>need<\/em> your book, because I\u2019m not a <em>leader<\/em>.\u201d I said, \u201cWell, let me ask you a question.\u201d I said, \u201cAre you a mom? Are you a grandmother?\u201d She\u2019s like, \u201cYes, I\u2019m a mom.\u201d I said, \u201cThat qualifies you as a <em>leader<\/em>. In fact, if you\u2019re breathing, you\u2019re, in essence, a leader,\u201d because leadership isn\u2019t about\u2014like you say, CEOs, or power, or titles, or status\u2014it\u2019s about influence, and it\u2019s about serving.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>You\u2019re saying the stay-at-home mom\u2014who has a two-year-old, a four-year-old, and a six-year-old\u2014you\u2019re saying, \u201cYou are a <em>leader<\/em>; you\u2019re an <em>influencer<\/em>.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jason: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>That\u2019s important for us to remember; because sometimes at that point of life, we feel like, \u201cI\u2019m having <em>no<\/em> influence; I have <em>no<\/em> life,\u201d but we really do. We\u2019re leaders in our family.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jason: <\/strong>Oh, absolutely, especially if leadership is influence, which I believe it is\/if leadership is serving, which Jesus said\u2014He\u2019s the ultimate leader\u2014\u201cI came not to <em>be<\/em> served but to serve.\u201d If <em>Jesus<\/em> is modeling that, then yes, I think, if you\u2019re a stay-at-home mom or even just a parent\u2014whatever situation you\u2019re in\u2014you\u2019re a leader. That\u2019s your number-one first priority of being a leader: is your family and people at home. I think we get leadership kind of mixed up, because we think it\u2019s just business; but leadership is more than title; it\u2019s really influence.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>It is interesting\u2014because obviously, we\u2019re older\u2014we\u2019re not as old as that grandma, but we\u2019re not far away from her. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes we are! [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes, we\u2019re a long, long way away from that! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong><em>Years<\/em> to go, Dave.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>We\u2019re years\/decades away from that! [Laughter] But you know, as I remember the days when Ann\u2019s talking about\u2014because when she said that question, I\u2019m like, \u201cShe\u2019s remembering four-year-old, two-year-old poopy diapers\u2014the whole thing.\u201d She would often state that to me\u2014usually at night, exhausted when we hit the sack, and try to get two hours of sleep, maybe\u2014she would say, \u201cI\u2019m doing nothing with my life,\u201d\u2014you know\u2014\u201cI\u2019m just a mom. I\u2019m at home all day; I\u2019m just chasing kids around; I\u2019m disciplining; I\u2019m exhausted; I\u2019m not doing anything.\u201d I\u2019d be saying what you\u2019re saying, Jason: \u201cOh no, you\u2019re a\u2026\u201d; but it\u2019s hard to <em>feel<\/em> that way at that point. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHere\u2019s where I\u2019m going with this\u2014you <em>call<\/em> your book <em>The Uniform of Leadership<\/em>\u2014I\u2019m like, \u201cWhat do you mean by that?\u201d But as I read it, I\u2019m like, Oh, there\u2019s this jersey\u201d\u2014and obviously, you connect it to sports.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jason: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Talk about that; because that\u2019s the thing that a mom, or dad, or anybody needs to realize\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>\u2014or grandparents.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u201cI am putting on a jersey.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jason: <\/strong>\u2014every day.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>What does that\u2014because that\u2019s a metaphor you use\u2014explain that, because I think that works. When you understand that, it changes your perspective.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jason: <\/strong>Well, it\u2019s certainly connected to sports, of course; because that\u2019s what I\u2019ve lived through\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u2014because everything <em>is<\/em>; right? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jason: <\/strong>Of course\u2014right Dave?\u2014come on now; sports is everything! [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNo; when I wake up every day, I make a decision on who I\u2019m going to serve first; that\u2019s kind of how I looked at this. So many times in my daily walk, my flesh kicks in\/my ego kicks in; and the idea of serving goes completely to serving <em>me<\/em>. But every single day we wake up, we have a choice to make on who we\u2019re going to serve. I look at it as this \u201cI am third,\u201d model, which I talked about in the book. Hopefully, if you\u2019re a follower of Christ and you\u2019re listening to this, you\u2019re going to look to serve the Lord first; but then, it\u2019s others second, and it\u2019s ourselves third. It\u2019s this \u201cI am third\u201d: God first, others second, ourselves third. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe uniform of leadership\u2014putting on that uniform every day\u2014think about a uniform and what it looks like; right? Especially, I use the example of the New York Mets; that\u2019s the baseball team that I grew up watching. It\u2019s been a long time since they\u2019ve won anything, as well, Dave; but the uniform that the Mets\u2019 wear has the Mets\u2019 name on the front, and it has the name of the player on the <em>back<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf I\u2019m waking up every day, and I\u2019m choosing to serve others first, I\u2019m wearing my uniform properly. But for so many of us\u2014I don\u2019t care what you believe but, especially, even as Christians\u2014we wake up; and the very first thing we think about is ourselves and taking care of ourselves; and \u201cWhat is this day going to be like for Jason?\u201d I\u2019m wearing, in that sense, the uniform of leadership <em>backwards<\/em>. The name on the back is who I\u2019m playing for, not the name on the <em>front<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s where, every single day, when we wake up, we have a choice to make. I think the best leaders\u2014stay-at-home moms all the way up to vice presidents of large corporations\u2014have to make a decision every day: \u201cWhat are they going to wear in terms of that uniform? Are they going to serve themselves first?\u2014or are they going to serve God and then others first?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes; as you know, the jersey in a sports situation is revered in a sense, especially, by the athlete. I mean, obviously\/you know, I was the chaplain for \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t33 seasons in the NFL. An NFL jersey\u2014same thing as a major league or soccer; you name it\u2014when you get to that level, and they put your name on a Lions\u2019 jersey, it is like it changes who you are.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jason: <\/strong>It\u2019s an identifier.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes; you step up, like, \u201cI\u2019m putting on this jersey right now; I have to represent that.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne of the things I did <em>years<\/em> ago\u2014and it\u2019s your \u201cleadership is serving\u201d thing\u2014one day, after a Lions game\/another loss, I\u2019m standing there [Laughter]\u2014I mean, probably, \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t20 years in as being a chaplain\u2014and what I typically would do after a game is just sort of be there; you know, walk around, talk to guys in front of the locker. Often, they\u2019ve lost; so we\u2019re talking about that. Maybe a guy got injured\u2014whatever\u2014I\u2019m trying to be pastoral and a light for Christ in the locker room.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHere\u2019s what happened. I\u2019m standing there, one day, looking around, thinking, \u201cWhat\u2019s the <em>best<\/em> thing I could do right now to <em>lead<\/em> in this moment?\u201d I\u2019m looking at this locker room, like, \u201cI\u2019m going to do the same thing again; I\u2019m going to walk over and talk to that guy and that guy.\u201d Some of them want to talk to you, some of them will just get their stuff and get out of there.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHere\u2019s what hits me: \u201cI should <em>help<\/em>. I should <em>serve<\/em>. What\u2019s that look like?\u201d I\u2019m watching the equipment guys; there are about seven or eight of them. Two or three are paid; the rest are volunteers. They are packing up all the guys\u2019 stuff\u2014cleats, shoulder pads, helmets, jerseys, pants\u2014everything goes in a bag\/the whole thing. I\u2019m watching this; and I\u2019m like, \u201cHey, I\u2019ll go help those guys.\u201d They actually put on hospital gloves because of blood and stuff on the jerseys. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLong story short, I go over to the equipment guys and go, \u201cHey, man, where do you get those gloves? I want to help you.\u201d You know what the guy says? \u201cOh yes, like <em>you\u2019re<\/em> going to help!\u201d I go, \u201cNo; can I <em>not<\/em> help?\u201d He goes, \u201cDude, you\u2019re the chaplain. Get out of here; go do your spiritual thing.\u201d That\u2019s what he said.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Wow; wow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>He was sort of mad at me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI kept looking around, like, \u201cOh, the gloves are in the training room!\u201d I went and got them, and I just started looking at what they did.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBy the way, one of the hardest things to do is take an NFL jersey off shoulder pads! They\u2019re <em>taped<\/em> on! [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jason: <\/strong>Yes, it is.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>You have to <em>peel<\/em> them off, so that took some work.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnyway, long story short, I started doing that <em>every<\/em> game. I never was asked, just started doing it. All I know is, like the third game, I memorized\u2014I was kneeling down in front of Josh McCown\u2019s locker, and I\u2019m pulling this thing off. He leans over and goes [whispering], \u201cI see what you\u2019re doing.\u201d I go, \u201cWhat do you mean? What am I doing?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe goes [whispering], \u201cYou\u2019re being Jesus, man!\u201d He goes, \u201cThe <em>whole<\/em> room is watching you.\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cWhat?!\u201d He goes, \u201cDude, everybody\u2019s seen this. They can\u2019t understand why the chaplain is doing something he\u2019s not supposed to be doing.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI realized I was leading by <em>serving<\/em>. I tell you what; the next thing I know, the equipment guys are like, \u201cHey, dude, come back here!\u201d I\u2019m in the back of the bus with them; I get a jacket on the sideline\u2014I never [before] got any clothes on the sideline\u2014they\u2019re like, \u201cYes; look at him; he\u2019s just a chaplain.\u201d But I became one of their <em>best<\/em> friends, you know?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>When things were going on in their life, they are calling me up. They were texting me: \u201cHey, give me your number,\u201d and I\u2019m in. I thought, \u201cAll that was <em>serving<\/em>,\u201d\u2014which is leadership\u2014that\u2019s what you keep talking about over and over in your book.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jason: <\/strong>It\u2019s Jesus saying, \u201cDeny yourself\u201d; right? I mean, that\u2019s what it <em>is<\/em>; that\u2019s the perfect example.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI remember, at ESPN one time, we had Colt McCoy. Do you guys remember Colt?\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Sure!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jason: <\/strong>\u2014played with Texas; I think he\u2019s with the New York Giants this season. Colt came to ESPN; and at that time, he was a highly-touted, Heisman trophy-type candidate, coming to ESPN to do a bunch of interviews. He had his Texas\/he went to University of Texas, Longhorns\/had his Longhorn staff with him. Usually it was about six\/seven deep when we would welcome a guest to ESPN and take them around.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe ended up in the cafeteria for about an hour before one of our next interviews. ESPN cafeteria\u2014real big; picture a college campus\u2014and that\u2019s ESPN, in that sense. We go to the cafeteria; and for some reason, one of the requests was to get a couple gallons of <em>milk<\/em>. It was in the morning; people wanted\u2014I don\u2019t even remember; like, \u201cHow do we have gallons of milk at ESPN?\u201d\u2014[Laughter]\u2014but what I do remember was I was the one responsible for getting those gallons and making sure that whoever was requesting them was taken care of.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHere\u2019s Colt McCoy; when everybody else is sitting and watching me struggle with two gallons of milk, and these other things that I\u2019m carrying, Colt gets up, comes over; he grabs a couple of gallons off me\u2014he\u2019s like, \u201cI got you, man. Let me take this for you.\u201d This is very small; you\u2019d say, \u201cHopefully, any human that would see that would help\u201d; but nobody else got up. Now, Colt was the <em>last<\/em> person I thought would get up; because he\u2019s Colt McCoy! At that point, just be\u2014\u201cYou\u2019re our guest here. Be the superstar; be the Heisman trophy candidate,\u201d\u2014but he got up.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s little things like that\u2014like what <em>you<\/em> [Dave] did; like what Colt does\u2014that I think (a) represents who Christ is; (b) is the ultimate representation of what leadership is about.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes; thinking about what you\u2019ve said in your book about\u2014\u201cServing is leadership; leadership is serving,\u201d\u2014I thought, \u201cHere\u2019s what happened to me. I stood in the locker room, I saw a need; I met it. I come home; I don\u2019t do the same thing.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>That\u2019s what I was going to ask.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Oh, there she goes!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I was going to ask, \u201cIs it harder to <em>serve<\/em> at home than it is at work?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jason: <\/strong>I think <em>so<\/em>; I think because you become <em>comfortable<\/em> at home. You come set in your ways. I have this struggle. I have no problem when I\u2019m here with you guys, or I\u2019m at work, or I\u2019m out; and I come home and it\u2019s like, \u201cWhat are we having for dinner, honey?\u201d My mind goes right to where I\u2019m comfortable.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>\u201cServe me.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u201cWho\u2019s going to serve me?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jason: <\/strong>Correct!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jason: <\/strong>You have to remember the love languages here\u2014that\u2019s another whole story for another time\u2014\u201cWhat\u2019s my wife\u2019s love language?\u201d Well, <em>hers<\/em> is acts of service. I have to get up, and I have to serve her and help her; and that\u2019s not my love language.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I\u2019m going to give you all a secret: \u201cServing is pretty much <em>everybody\u2019s<\/em> love language.\u201d [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jason: <\/strong>Ah, so true.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Think about this: I mean, when we get up, we go to work; and then work is over, and we go home to\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jason: <\/strong>\u2014rest; yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>And women get up and go to work,\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>\u2014and then they come home to go to <em>work<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I\u2019m thinking about a friend of mine, who years ago, told me this; I thought this was so smart. He said, \u201cWhen I leave the office in the afternoon, there\u2019s a spot that\u2019s about a mile from where I live.\u201d He said, \u201cI will pull off for about five minutes before I get home\u201d; and he says, \u201cand I will tell myself, \u2018You are about to go to your second job, and you better strap it on and be just as good there.\u2019\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou\u2019re not going home to rest and be served; you\u2019re going into the next area of where you\u2019re hired to work.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>It\u2019s really your most important job.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jason: <\/strong>That\u2019s a <em>great<\/em> point.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I\u2019m just going to\u2014just a tip, because I used to do this; and it was <em>wrong<\/em>\u2014I would say things to Dave like: \u201cI wish I could get home and sit on the couch,\u201d \u201cI wish I could come home and\u2026\u201d\u2014that <em>does not<\/em> work. [Laughter] It doesn\u2019t; does it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Does not motivate a husband.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jason: <\/strong>I\u2019m going to give you my wife\u2019s number. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I was sarcastic; I was hoping Dave would get the point. I wish I would have just gone in, sat on the couch or done whatever, and said, \u201cHoney, I really need your help right now\u201d; because I <em>assumed<\/em> [beforehand] that he knew it; I <em>assumed<\/em> that he would get up.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHere\u2019s another tip: \u201cTell them exactly what you would like them to do.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>The wife who says, \u201cAnd I\u2019ve tried that; and my husband goes, \u201cCan you just give me 15 minutes to just chill?; or he goes [sighing deeply], \u2018Ahhh, okay; what do you need me to do\u2026\u2019\u201d And she goes, \u201cI don\u2019t\u2026\u201d The next day, she just\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Then she says, \u201cForget it; I\u2019ll do it myself.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I\u2019ve heard those exact words!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jason: <\/strong>Oh, so have I.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I\u2019m like, \u201cI just said I\u2019d do it!\u201d \u201cNo, you didn\u2019t say you\u2019d do it; you said [huffing]4, \u2018Okay\u2026\u2019\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Okay; Mr. Leadership, how can that wife\u2014is there anything <em>you\u2019d<\/em> recommend to her to do?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I love it; you called him Mr. Leadership! [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jason: <\/strong>Oh, I\u2019m going to get in <em>so<\/em> much trouble! Listen, I\u2019ve been married 21 years, and I\u2019m not perfect by any means; but I will say a lot of what you explained I live through every day. Now, it\u2019s important to communicate; and that\u2019s on both ends. Remember, too, that communication is part of the leadership model. You really have to talk; you have to explain sometimes\u2014guys need this more than women\u2014exactly what you <em>want<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRemember that it\u2019s different situations. My wife works in a job, where she\u2019s not sort of happy all the time in her role, whereas I\u2019m like: \u201cI get to do sports, and I get to interview all these people,\u201d and \u201cGuess what I did!\u201d I\u2019m very rarely in a \u201cbad mood\u201d coming from work, and that was the same way at ESPN. So it\u2019s different, but I think communication has to be vital.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I know, for Ann, she\u2019s joking; but she would come in, and sit on the couch, and be mad at me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jason: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Then, when she started coming in on the couch and encouraging me\u2014I don\u2019t know; it was a different response\u2014again, she wasn\u2019t saying, \u201cHey, it\u2019s awesome; you\u2019re sitting there, watching the game, and not helping me,\u201d\u2014but no; you started to speak life into things that I <em>was<\/em> doing well.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>\u2014to even thank you, like, \u201cHey, thanks for doing the dishes tonight; that was a <em>huge<\/em> help.\u201d That motivated you so much, like, \u201cOh, maybe I should do that <em>again<\/em>,\u201d instead of me saying, \u201cWell, about time you did the dishes! I do them <em>every<\/em> night.\u201d I think that really is important in how we speak.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Mary Ann and I were at a Bible study one time, and the question that everybody\u2014kind of the opener question was\u2014\u201cWhat\u2019s something your spouse has done recently that you found romantic?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m waiting, as we\u2019re going around the circle, thinking\u2014[Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Why is everybody laughing right now?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I\u2019m thinking, \u201cWhat is she going to say?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u201cWhat\u2019s she going to come up with?\u201d I\u2019m starting to think, \u201cWhat have I done romantic in the last\u2026\u201d I\u2019m thinking she\u2019s going to go back to college when were dating! [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>You reached over and grabbed her hand right then! [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I\u2019m waiting to see what she\u2019s going to say. It gets to her; and she said, \u201cWell, I\u2019ll tell you. This was last week. I was in the kitchen; I was doing the dishes. Without me saying anything, Bob got up, and came in, and grabbed a dish towel, and started drying dishes; and I didn\u2019t even ask him to.\u201d She said, \u201cThat was so romantic!\u201d [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes, Bob! Yes!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I\u2019m going, \u201cThat was <em>romantic<\/em>? Are you kidding me?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>You know what it was?\u2014you put on the home jersey.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jason: <\/strong>Yes, you wore the uniform properly.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I can tell you what\u2014then, every time I grabbed a dish towel from then, she goes, \u201cI know what you\u2019re doing, and I know what you\u2019re <em>thinking<\/em>. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u201cIt\u2019s not going to end up that way!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u201cIt\u2019s not going to work!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jason: <\/strong>\u201cFind another way.\u201d [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI will say, too, what you said, Ann, was beautiful; because if you come in and you encourage Dave: \u201cThank you for doing the dishes\u201d; Dave\u2019s going to be like, \u201cOkay, I\u2019m going to bat for Ann.\u201d You love each other anyway; but you\u2019re going to go to battle for that woman on <em>anything<\/em>, because you feel loved; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn the business world, that\u2019s the same way. We talk about bosses: the greatest leaders I\u2019ve seen are people who show caring and love; and they invest in the person\u2014not just in the employee; right?\u2014relational equity that you\u2019re building. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think if somebody shows me\u2014I\u2019ve had great leaders, who were my bosses\u2014but I\u2019ve also had some bosses, who weren\u2019t necessarily great leaders; but the ones, who loved me, who cared for me, who went and invested into me, I was going to go to battle for that person.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jason: <\/strong>I\u2019ll do anything they want, because I know that they care about <em>me<\/em>. I think that transfers over to the home.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Oh, yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jason: <\/strong>You know, if you show each other that you care for each other\u2014and even just picking up the dish towel, and doing the dishes, and drying them off without being asked\u2014I think my wife would flip if I started vacuuming in the house without being asked.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Jason, yes; do this!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jason: <\/strong>So I have to go home and do that tonight! [Laughter] But that\u2019s a way of showing that you care\u2014and then she\u2019s going to go to battle for me; I\u2019m going to go to battle for her\u2014and that just makes the relationship so much better.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes; I mean, one of the themes in your book, over and over, is the people part.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jason: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Leadership isn\u2019t just tasks and accomplishing great goals; it\u2019s all about seeing people, caring for people, people feeling loved by you. I just thought it\u2019s easy to do that, for me, in the locker room or at church; it\u2019s harder to do that when I walk in the door. But who are the most <em>valuable<\/em> people in my life\/in our lives?\u2014our wives\/our kids; your spouse\/your children.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jason: <\/strong>Yes; it\u2019s your first line of defense.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>They\u2019re more important than the people you work with\u2014I\u2019m not saying they\u2019re not\/they matter\u2014but it\u2019s so easy to walk in the door and have, you know, \u201cMy boss is a 10; my wife\u2019s a 7,\u201d\u2014what?!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I think the two words that we started with\u2014influence and service as the definition of leadership\u2014everybody\u2019s an influencer, and everybody has opportunities to serve. You\u2019re a leader as a mom, as a dad, a husband, a wife; even teenagers, who are listening\u2014you\u2019re a leader.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jason: <\/strong>Absolutely.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Use that influence; serve others. Get a copy of Jason\u2019s book, <em>The Uniform of Leadership: Lessons on True Success from My ESPN Life<\/em>. We have copies of Jason\u2019s book in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. You can order it from us, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY to get a copy. Again, the title of the book is <em>The Uniform of Leadership<\/em> by Jason Romano. It\u2019s available, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or call if you\u2019d like to order a copy. Our number is 1-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to come back to those two words we\u2019ve talked about, service and influence. Here, at FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, we\u2019re committed to doing everything we can do to help <em>you<\/em> serve and influence others more effectively in your marriage, in your family, in your community. We want to help you effectively develop a godly marriage and family. We believe godly marriages and families can change the world one home at a time.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThose of you, who are regular listeners, you\u2019ve heard us say this often, but it is your financial support of this ministry that makes all we do here at FamilyLife possible. The handful of listeners in every city, who support this ministry, either with one-time donations or as monthly Legacy Partners, you guys are partnering with us to reach more people more often through this radio program, our podcasts, through what you hear online; all of the different ways that <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is now available. You can ask Alexa<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> to play today\u2019s edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> if you want. You make all of this possible when you support this ministry, and we\u2019re grateful for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn fact, this week, we have been offering a new resource, a book by Joe Rigney called <em>More Than a Battle<\/em>. It\u2019s a gift to those of you who can help support this ministry. Joe tackles one of the tough issues of our day\u2014the issue of pornography\u2014and gets to the root causes of pornography to help men and women get free from the bondage that so many people are experiencing in this area. The book, <em>More Than a Battle<\/em>, is our gift to you when you make a donation today to support the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. You can do that online at FamilyLifeToday.com, or you can call to donate at 1-800-FL-TODAY. We are grateful for your partnership with us; and thanks, in advance, for your support.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe hope you can join us, again, tomorrow as we continue to talk about what effective leadership looks like in the home, in the workplace, in the community\u2014how we can <em>all<\/em> do a better job of serving and influencing others. Jason Romano joins us, again, tomorrow. We hope you can join us as well.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2021 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/306712","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=306712"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=306712"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=306712"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=306712"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=306712"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=306712"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=306712"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}