{"id":306710,"date":"2021-02-03T07:00:06","date_gmt":"2021-02-03T12:00:06","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/creating-a-battle-plan\/"},"modified":"2021-02-03T07:00:06","modified_gmt":"2021-02-03T12:00:06","slug":"creating-a-battle-plan","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/creating-a-battle-plan\/","title":{"rendered":"Creating a Battle Plan"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>When you&#8217;re in a war, like pornography, it makes sense to have a strategy for the battles. On FamilyLife Today, hosts Dave and Ann Wilson talk with Dr. Joe Rigney about how to overcome the enemy and walk in victory.<br \/>\nShow Notes and Resources<\/p>\n<p> \tDownload FamilyLife&#8217;s new app! https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/app\/<br \/>\n \tFind resources from this podcast at https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/Products.aspx?categoryid=130.<br \/>\n \tCheck out all that&#8217;s available on the FamilyLife Podcast Network.\u00a0 https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/familylife-podcast-network\/<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>When you&#8217;re in a war, like pornography, it makes sense to have a strategy for the battles. Dr. Joe Rigney talks about how to overcome the enemy and walk in victory.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/fltoday.s3.us-east-1.amazonaws.com\/fl2021-02-03.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:27:53","filesize":"25.54M","filesize_raw":"26777356","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2844],"tags":[2872,6970,2989],"podcast_series":[8426],"cwp_profile":[9689],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-306710","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-pornography","tag-addiction","tag-life-issues","tag-pornography","podcast_series-more-than-a-battle","cwp_profile-joe-rigney","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/306710\/creating-a-battle-plan","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/306710\/creating-a-battle-plan","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"06QYznjsGN\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/creating-a-battle-plan\/\">Creating a Battle Plan<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/creating-a-battle-plan\/embed\/#?secret=06QYznjsGN\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Creating a Battle Plan&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"06QYznjsGN\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/familylifetodaypdfs.s3.us-east-1.amazonaws.com\/fl2021-02-03.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/fltoday.s3.us-east-1.amazonaws.com\/fl2021-02-03.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<b>Bob: <\/b>There are a lot of husbands who have a lot of messed up ideas when it comes to their expectations around marital intimacy. Joe Rigney says there\u2019s a good reason for that.\n\n<b>Joe:<\/b> What\u2019s happened is: \u201cFor a number of years, you have been taking sex ed curriculum from liars and incompetents\u201d\u2014that\u2019s what pornography is\u2014you have been conditioned to think that this is what sexuality is. Then you get into marriage and you go, \u201cThat\u2019s not how it is!\u201d [Pornography]\u2014That\u2019s a lie; that\u2019s artificial; it\u2019s <i>fake<\/i>; yet, you\u2019ve conditioned yourself by the choices you\u2019ve made; and now you need to unlearn some things.\n\n<b>Bob: <\/b>This is <i>FamilyLife Today<\/i> for Wednesday, February 3<sup>rd<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I'm Bob Lepine. You can find us online at FamilyLifeToday.com. There are lots of things about sexuality that many of us need to unlearn and lots of things about dealing with our own lust that many of us need to begin to practice. We\u2019re going to talk about both of those things today. Stay with us.\n\n<b>Bob: <\/b>And welcome to <i>FamilyLife Today<\/i>. Thanks for joining us. I remember speaking to a group of men\u2014it\u2019s about 1500 guys\u2014and we were talking about lust and temptation\/sexual sin. I asked every guy in the room to stand up; I said, \u201cEverybody stand up, except the single guys. Single guys, you can stay seated. Just all the married guys stand up.\u201d<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\nThen I said, \u201cI want you to sit down if, since you got married, you have not had any ongoing struggle with pornography or lust. Go ahead and sit down.\u201d I think maybe four guys in the room sat down.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\n<b>Ann:<\/b> Ah, that\u2019s so depressing.\n\n<b>Dave:<\/b> You\u2019re saying four guys had <i>not<\/i> struggled\u2014\n\n<b>Bob:<\/b> \u2014since they\u2014\n\n<b>Dave:<\/b> \u2014everybody else had.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\n<b>Bob:<\/b> Right.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\n<b>Dave:<\/b> Yes.\n\n<b>Bob:<\/b> I said to the single guys, \u201cI wanted to do this for <i>you<\/i> because I wanted you single guys, who are thinking, \u2018I\u2019ve got this struggle going on in my life, but when I\u2019m married\u2014\n\n<b>Ann:<\/b> Yes.\n\n<b>Bob<\/b><b>:<\/b> \u2014\u201c\u2018and when I\u2019m able to be intimate with my wife regularly, then\u2014\n\n<b>Ann:<\/b> \u2014\u201c\u2018it will go away.\u2019\u201d\n\n<b>Bob:<\/b> \u2014\u201c\u2019this battle will go away.\u2019\u201d I wanted them to see: \u201cHere\u2019s the testimony of the tribe; it\u2019s not going to go away. That\u2019s not the <i>cure<\/i> you\u2019re looking for; that\u2019s not going to fix this for you.\u201d<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\n<b>Ann:<\/b> Bob, most women that are engaged, and their fianc\u00e9 has come and talked to them, like, \u201cThis has been a battle in the past,\u201d\u2014and he\u2019s usually reassuring\u2014\u201cbut I\u2019m sure, when we get married, it will no longer be a battle.\u201d<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\n<b>Bob:<\/b> Right.\n\n<b>Ann:<\/b> I think it\u2019s important for her to know: \u201cThis could be something that we need to battle together.\u201d It\u2019s not an easy conversation to have.\n\n<b>Bob:<\/b> Your fianc\u00e9 almost certainly has had <i>exposure<\/i> to pornography. The question is: \u201cWhat\u2019s that ongoing exposure looked like, and how is this going to impact your marriage?\u201d<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\n<b>Dave:<\/b> We need help, Bob.\n\n<b>Bob:<\/b> We do need help.\n\n<b>Ann:<\/b> You do need help. [Laughter]\n\n<b>Dave:<\/b> We need a doctor in the house. [Laughter] And we\u2019ve got one.\n\n<b>Bob:<\/b> Joe Rigney is joining us this week on FamilyLife Today. Joe, welcome back.\n\n<b>Joe:<\/b> It\u2019s great to be here.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\n<b>Bob:<\/b> Joe is a pastor in the Twin Cities. He is an associate professor at Bethlehem College and Seminary; and He\u2019s written a book called <i>More Than a Battle<\/i>, which is a battle plan for guys to know how you get free from what is a battle for all of us.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\nJoe, you\u2019ve talked about your own struggle with this issue. One of the things you say in the book is the whole idea of what it means to walk by the Spirit was kind of a revolutionary game-changer for you. Now, you\u2019d heard about walking by the Spirit for years; but some light came on that affected your battle with porn.\n\n<b>Joe:<\/b> Yes; there\u2019s this great text in Galatians, Chapter 5, where Paul says, \u201cWalk by the Spirit and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.\u201d In the original Greek, it\u2019s actually an intensified negation; it is: \u201cWalk by the Spirit and you will absolutely not gratify the desires of the flesh.\u201d That\u2019s an amazing promise. Immediately, he comes back and he says, \u201cFor the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, so that you don\u2019t do the things that you want because they\u2019re opposed to each other.\u201d\n\nFor a long time, I thought, \u201cWhat that sounds like: great promise; realistic walk back,\u201d\u2014like Paul\u2019s sort of saying, \u201cHey, if you walk by the Spirit, you won\u2019t do this at all; but you still kind of will,\u201d\u2014<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\n<b>Dave:<\/b> Yes.\n\n<b>Joe:<\/b> \u2014like, \u201cdesires of the flesh\u201d: \u201cThere\u2019s going to be a war, and you\u2019re going to lose some.\u201d\n\n<b>Dave:<\/b> By the way, you just described <i>most<\/i> men\u2019s Christian walk: \u201cYou kind of will.\u201d We got to hear the rest because\u2014\n\n<b>Joe:<\/b> What the game-changer was\/is\u2014I had a friend in seminary, who was working on that passage. He said, \u201cYou know, if you flip it around, but kind of keep the logic of the passage.\u201d The logic of the passage is: \u201cWalk by the Spirit; you won\u2019t gratify the desires of the flesh, <i>because<\/i> those are opposed to each other,\u201d and \u201cYou don\u2019t do the things that you want.\u201d<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\nHe said, \u201cFlip it.\u201d What he said was: \u201cThe desires of the flesh are against the Spirit; the desires of the Spirit against the flesh. These are opposed to each other; therefore, walk by the Spirit and you won\u2019t gratify the desires of the flesh.\u201d It was like the light just went, \u201cBoom.\u201d What it meant was\u2014it\u2019s <i>not<\/i> that you have this promise, and there\u2019s a realistic walk back\u2014it\u2019s that you wake up, every day, in a war. You\u2019re a Christian\u2014there\u2019s the spiritual desires; there\u2019s fleshly desires\u2014they\u2019re opposed to each other. It\u2019s this pitch battle, so what should you do?\u2014\u201cWalk by the Spirit,\u201d\u2014and then there\u2019s a promise\u2014\u201cand you won\u2019t gratify those desires of the flesh.\u201d That was a <i>major<\/i> thing.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\nThen what it signaled was: \u201cWe start in a war.\u201d The destination that we\u2019re going for is not gratifying the desires of the flesh, which isn\u2019t the same as not having any desires. The language of gratify is: \u201cBasically, desires want to take you someplace. Desires entice, and they pull you\u201d\u2014right?\u2014desires want you to go someplace. If you let them take you there, that\u2019s called <i>gratifying<\/i> the desire or <i>indulging<\/i> the desire. The promise is, <i>not<\/i> that there won\u2019t be a desire, but that you won\u2019t gratify it.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\n\u201cThen what\u2019s the bridge between where we start and our destination?\u201d\u2014answer: \u201cWalk by the Spirit,\u201d\u2014which means that the question: \u201cWhat does that even mean?\u201d\u2014becomes <i>massively<\/i> important in terms of our sanctification. \u201cHow do we get from this warfare, where we\u2019re <i>frustrated<\/i>, to measures of victory that maybe we can\u2019t even imagine yet?\u201d\n\n<b>Bob: <\/b>Joe, what does that even mean?<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\n<b>Joe:<\/b> What does that even mean? [Laughter] I wrote a book about it. [Laughter] I think one of the things it means is it reorients us to the kind of struggle that this is. I\u2019m borrowing this from the late Dr. David Powlison; he was another game-changer. In 2004, I heard him give a message called \u201cMaking All Things New\u201d at the <i>Desiring God<\/i> National Conference in Minneapolis.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\nI came up, as a college student; he gave a talk called \u201cMaking All Things New,\u201d\u2014eventually, turned it into a little book\/Crossway published this little book\u2014kind of an expanded version of that. In that talk, he basically said, \u201cLook, this is a longer war; this is a deeper war; this is a wider war; this is more\u2026\u201d It just opened my eyes to things in my life that I had no idea had anything to do with the struggle against sexual sin, but <i>absolutely<\/i> did.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\nI lean on him heavily to really get a vision of: \u201cPart of walking by the Spirit is recognizing this is a long obedience in the same direction.\u201d This is not a flash in the pan\/you just\u2014God suddenly flips a switch\u2014He\u2019s not going to zap you probably. Maybe He knocks you off your horse, like Paul; but more likely: \u201cIt\u2019s going to be you waking up, day after day, and making certain choices by the Spirit of God to be confronted with the temptations and to walk away.\u201d<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\nThere\u2019s layers of the fight. Walking by the Spirit is\u2014\u201cBy the Spirit\u2019s power, there\u2019s a lifestyle; there\u2019s a way of conducting yourself\/a way of walking in the world that <i>fits<\/i> with the Spirit\u2019s desires,\u201d\u2014that\u2019s what we\u2019re after.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\n<b>Dave:<\/b> It\u2019s interesting\u2014Paul\u2019s getting at it; and Joe, you\u2019re developing it so well that the answer\u2014\u201cThe victory journey is <i>not<\/i> horizontal. It\u2019s capital \u2018S\u2019\/Spirit; it\u2019s not my human spirit.\u201d<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\nIt\u2019s almost like\u2014I mean, when you were talking, I picture a human being, with a plug in his hand, looking for an outlet to get my power source. What Bob said earlier, when those men stood up\u2014is we think, \u201cIf I get married, I plug this into marriage and my spouse; we\u2019ll be able to have sexual intimacy. The struggle\u2019s going to go away, so <i>that\u2019s<\/i> going to be my power,\u201d and then it <i>isn\u2019t<\/i>.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\n<b>Joe:<\/b> It\u2019s not.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\n<b>Dave:<\/b> So you go, \u201cPumpf\u201d; and you unplug. You\u2019re like, \u201cOkay, it\u2019s\u2026\u201d What you\u2019re saying\/Paul is saying: \u201cThat has to go <i>vertical<\/i>.\n\n<b>Joe:<\/b> Yes.\n\n<b>Dave:<\/b> \u201cYou\u2019ll <i>never<\/i> win this battle in human spirit. It\u2019s Holy Spirit power\u2014\u2018Walk by the Spirit.\u2019\u201d<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\n<b>Joe:<\/b> Yes.\n\n<b>Dave:<\/b> You said that means we\u2019re making daily choices. Help us! There\u2019s a guy listening, going, \u201cOkay, I believe it; but I still don\u2019t know what that looks like. How do I win this thing?\u201d<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\n<b>Ann:<\/b> Let me add this, too, Dave. Because it\u2019s a battle that\u2019s going on\u2014not only in the husband\u2019s life\u2014but it\u2019s the wife\u2019s life as well; because there\u2019s a battle taking place to pull us apart from one another. For women, we too need to know: \u201cHow do I battle alongside my husband?\u201d because this topic draws us\/pulls us away as partners but, also, our whole family. We, as women, can become so resentful, so angry, so numb that we want nothing to do with our husbands. At that point, Satan wins.\n\n<b>Joe:<\/b> Right; one thing is that the story Bob told, I think, in a weird way, ought to encourage women. You said, \u201cIt\u2019s depressing.\u201d It absolutely is; but for a wife then, who has a husband who is dealing with this, she needs to know it\u2019s not about <i>her<\/i>.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\n<b>Ann:<\/b> Right; it\u2019s so <i>hard<\/i> not to go there though.\n\n<b>Joe:<\/b> You assume it\u2019s about: \u201cIt must be me\u2014some flaw in me\/some failure. If I was different, he wouldn\u2019t do this.\u201d<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\n<b>Dave:<\/b> Right.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\n<b>Joe:<\/b> That\u2019s <i>not<\/i> true.\n\n<b>Ann:<\/b> Many women will say, \u201cHe\u2019s basically having an affair with another woman that\u2019s not real.\u201d\n\n<b>Joe: <\/b>That\u2019s right. I think for wives, one of the things to get straight on is: \u201cThis isn\u2019t <i>my<\/i> fault; therefore, I have to be able to entrust him to <i>God<\/i>. This is between him and the Lord, fundamentally.\u201d\n\nThe reason why single guys, who are dealing\/who are neck deep in porn, think marriage is going to fix it is that they think: \u201cIntimacy is intimacy,\u201d\u2014that\u2014\u201cSex is just sex.\u201d But it\u2019s like, \u201cNo.\u201d What\u2019s happened is: \u201cFor a number of years, you have been taking sex ed\u201d\u2014this is a quote from a pastor friend of mine\u2014\u201csex ed curriculum from liars and incompetents,\u201d\u2014that\u2019s what pornography is\u2014right?\u2014you have been conditioned to think that this is what sexuality looked like. Then you get into marriage and you go, \u201cThat\u2019s not how it is!\u201d [Pornography]\u2014that\u2019s a lie; that\u2019s artificial; it\u2019s <i>fake<\/i>. Yet, you\u2019ve conditioned yourself to be aroused by that; therefore, making love to a real woman just doesn\u2019t work. Therefore, you get stuck. Part of it is you\u2019ve been conditioned wrong by the choices you\u2019ve made; and now you need to unlearn some things about what women are, and who women are, and what a man is, and all this stuff.\n\nFor a wife, she needs to go, \u201cThis is ultimately between him and the Lord; therefore my role is supportive. I need to be worried about <i>me<\/i>: \u201cWhere\u2019s the trap here?\u201d This is one of the main things I talk about in the book\u2014is the schemes of the devil. Paul has this great phrase: \u201cthe schemes of the devil.\u201d \u201cWe\u2019re not unaware of his schemes.\u201d The idea is\u2014you guys remember the old TV show, <i>24<\/i>?\n\n<b>Ann and Dave:<\/b> Yes.\n\n<b>Joe:<\/b> You guys remember Jack Bauer?<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\n<b>Ann:<\/b> Right\n\n<b>Bob: <\/b>Yes.\n\n<b>Joe:<\/b> If you\u2019re watching that show, you know there\u2019s 24 hours. You\u2019re watching that show, and about hour six, if Jack\u2019s closing in on the bad guy, you know there\u2019s about to be a twist; right? [Laughter] You know he can\u2019t catch him now; we\u2019ve got 18 more hours to go. At hour six, you know there\u2019s about to be a deeper plot revealed. Then at hour 12, there\u2019s going to be a deeper plot revealed; and there\u2019s always going to be a deeper plot.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\nThat\u2019s how the devil is. In a marriage, plot number one\/scheme number one is: \u201cI\u2019m going to get this guy to fall. I\u2019m going to get him to look at pornography.\u201d Once that\u2019s accomplished, success for the devil. It\u2019s not like he packs it up and goes home. He goes, \u201cI\u2019ve got another plot now. I\u2019m going to get him to hide it.\u201d<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\nSay that one doesn\u2019t work; say he comes clean: \u201cOh, it\u2019s okay. I\u2019ve got another plot. Now I\u2019m going to use it to tear his marriage apart. I\u2019m going to work on his wife. I\u2019m going to stoke the fear, and that resentment, and that anger in her,\u201d\u2014so <i>you\u2019re<\/i> the target of that spiritual attack\u2014it\u2019s not just that you\u2019re watching your husband fall into sin. There\u2019s a danger for a wife. This is where you get mutually-feeding spousal sins. His temptation to lust and your temptation to anger and fear is going to create a dynamic in the marriage that\u2019s going to build a <i>massive<\/i> wall. Part of walking by the Spirit is not being ignorant of the devil\u2019s schemes.\n\n<b>Ann:<\/b> So good.\n\n<b>Dave:<\/b> Some of that\u2019s just training your mind and being\u2014again, a mentor can really help you\u2014<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\n<b>Joe:<\/b> Yes.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\n<b>Dave:<\/b> \u2014understand that scheme\/that pattern, what goes on, and what\/the deception behind it.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\nBut you just mentioned something that I found intriguing in your book: the connection between anger and lust. Now you mentioned it with the wife being angry; but in the book, you\u2019re talking about a <i>man\u2019s<\/i> anger sometimes connects or spurs on a lustful desire. Talk about that.\n\n<b>Joe:<\/b> Yes; so this is an insight from a counselor named Jay Stringer, who wrote a book on this subject on sexual brokenness.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\n<b>Dave:<\/b> We had Jay on the program.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\n<b>Ann:<\/b> Yes.\n\n<b>Joe:<\/b> Oh, did you. His book\u2019s very, very helpful. He did all the research, and I just got the benefit of it; right? He talks about how it\u2019s interesting\/the way he says he\u2019s never met someone, who has a lust problem, who also doesn\u2019t have an anger problem. Oftentimes this is why, especially as the pornography epidemic has multiplied, that the pornography that guys are getting into these days is much more degrading; because there\u2019s an anger involved.\n\nAgain, we talked earlier the desire for validation that guys feel. That\u2019s part of the craving that they are seeking to satisfy through pornography is: \u201cI want to be known and admired as a man.\u201d The anger is: \u201cI\u2019m <i>not<\/i> known and admired as a man in my daily life, at work, in my marriage, with my kids,\u201d\u2014wherever it is\u2014\u201cIn life, I\u2019m not known and admired as a man. That makes me angry, and I\u2019m going to go get admired by a woman,\u201d or \u201cI\u2019m going to go degrade a woman in my imagination.\u201d<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\nAgain, this is where\u2014if you only treat this as: \u201cGuys like to look at naked women,\u201d\u2014and you don\u2019t recognize there might be a deep anger at the world, and at God, and at wife\u2014that, as a mentor, I\u2019m going to be keying in on that because, until you diffuse that little time bomb, it doesn\u2019t matter how much you talk about software programs and things to help keep that away\u2014as valuable as those may be\u2014those are treating symptoms. You\u2019ve got to go down for the roots.\n\n<b>Dave:<\/b> Yes; and I\u2019ve found, as I sit with men in my church, I\u2019ve also found\u2014and you\u2019ve just mentioned it\u2014there\u2019s an anger toward God\u2014\n\n<b>Joe:<\/b> Yes.\n\n<b>Dave: <\/b>\u2014like, \u201cGod hasn\u2019t come through. My relationship with Him is not what I thought it would be. The power that is in walking in the Spirit, I haven\u2019t really experienced.\u201d It\u2019s almost like, \u201cYou know, you haven\u2019t done it for me, God. I\u2019m going to go somewhere I know I shouldn\u2019t go, but it\u2019s going to feel good,\u201d\u2014it\u2019s like <i>feeding<\/i> that. Have you seen that as well?\n\n<b>Joe:<\/b> Absolutely; yes, the anger at God. This could be true for married guys; it could be true for single guys: \u201cI want to be married, and God hadn\u2019t provided the woman; so I\u2019m going to act out by looking at something.\u201d You can\u2019t actually punch God in the face. But what I can do is: \u201cWhat I can do is\u2014I can defy You. I can go seek satisfaction over here,\u201d as a way almost of getting back.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\nSin\u2019s so subtle. We don\u2019t recognize that until <i>after<\/i> the fact: \u201cOh, that\u2019s what I was doing.\u201d But this is where, again, wise mentors can say, \u201cI see the temptation that\u2019s coming down the way here. Where you\u2019re at, this is the thing that\u2019s coming next.\u201d One of the things with the mentors, with the marriage question, is helping husbands and wives, who are in this, to have honest, but guided, conversations.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\nHere\u2019s a real practical one. Because men and women are different, we experience attraction different. My wife and I would get tripped up in our first year of marriage when she would say, \u201cWere you attracted to that waitress? You looked like you noticed. Were you attracted to her?\u201d \u201cYes; she\u2019s attractive.\u201d \u201cHow could you say that?! What do you mean you were attracted to her?\u201d<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\nI was like, \u201cWait, wait,\u201d and I would stop and I\u2019d say, \u201cYou mean you\u2019re not attracted to other <i>men<\/i>?\u201d She was like, \u201cAbsolutely not.\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cNo, no, no, wait. Hold on. Time out. You don\u2019t think that other men are attractive?\u201d She says, \u201cNo, I totally think other men are attractive. I\u2019m just not attracted to them.\u201d<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\nI went, \u201cThat\u2019s just not computing. I don\u2019t\/my categories\u2014[Laughter]\u2014you\u2019re saying they\u2019re attractive, but you\u2019re not attracted to them.\u201d In <i>her<\/i> mind, those were radically different things. She could recognize, \u201cThat man is handsome,\u201d but have no desire or draw to him in a certain kind of way because, typically, it needed to be more emotionally fueled; right?\n\n<b>Bob:<\/b> Right.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\n<b>Joe:<\/b> We were just <i>missing<\/i> each other, and there was fights and tensions in the marriage. Somebody else needed to come in and say, \u201cHold on. This is just a vocabulary problem, y\u2019all.\u201d We needed somebody to help us work through that; otherwise, we would just get stuck.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\n<b>Dave:<\/b> I\u2019m thinking it\u2019s so easy to do that, as a man, if you\u2019re struggling with porn; because you don\u2019t look at women as women.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\n<b>Joe:<\/b> Yes.\n\n<b>Dave:<\/b> You <i>have<\/i> to understand what it does to your mind.\n\n<b>Joe:<\/b> Yes.\n\n<b>Dave:<\/b> It is <i>not<\/i> pure; you say in the book, \u201cIt\u2019s immoral.\u201d It really is because you look at people different. A woman that says, \u201cHe\u2019s attractive, but I\u2019m not attracted to him,\u201d is like they probably have never allowed that to distort. You know what I\u2019m saying?\n\n<b>Joe:<\/b> Yes; women are not objects for male gratification; and men are not beasts who prey upon women.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\nThat\u2019s what pornography teaches: \u201cMen are just animals and women are just objects.\u201d If you\u2014that\u2019s the catechism; that\u2019s what you\u2019re taught\u2014you\u2019re conditioned to think: \u201cThat\u2019s what men are,\u201d \u201cThat\u2019s what women are,\u201d\u2014which means you think of yourself that way as a man: \u201cI\u2019m just a beast, and I need to be put in a cage.\u201d A wife is going to then feel like, \u201cYes, you do.\u201d It\u2019s going to condition; it\u2019s going to affect the way you engage with other women.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\n<b>Dave:<\/b> Then you\u2019ve got the guy that will say\u2014because I\u2019ve had them sit in my office, look me in the eye\u2014one guy even wrote it down; he said, \u201cI know what\u2019s right, but I can\u2019t do it. I find something in my soul that keeps me from doing what is right. I want to do what\u2019s right, but I can\u2019t do it.\u201d You ever heard that one before?<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\n<b>Joe:<\/b> Oh, yes.\n\n<b>Dave:<\/b> That\u2019s Romans 7.\n\n<b>Joe:<\/b> That\u2019s Romans 7. [Laughter]\n\n<b>Dave:<\/b> I\u2019m quoting Romans 7.\n\n<b>Bob:<\/b> That\u2019s right.\n\n<b>Dave:<\/b> The Apostle Paul wrote that. But I think a lot of men read that, and you talk about it in your book; it\u2019s like, \u201cOh, I\u2019ve\/he battled\u2014<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\n<b>Bob:<\/b> \u201cThat\u2019s my \u2018Get out of Jail Free\u2019 card.\u201d\n\n<b>Dave:<\/b> \u2014 like: \u201cHe didn\u2019t win; I didn\u2019t win.\u201d<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\n<b>Joe:<\/b> Yes; that\u2019s right.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\n<b>Dave:<\/b> \u201cSo, hey, you know, I\u2019m just\u2014\n\n<b>Joe:<\/b> They settle.\n\n<b>Dave:<\/b> \u201cI\u2019m just being a guy\u201d; yes.\n\n<b>Joe:<\/b> They settle; right. The thing about Romans 7 that\u2019s interesting is that, in<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\nRomans 7, the Spirit doesn\u2019t show up in that struggle, where he\u2019s like, \u201cI know the good thing; I do what I hate.\u201d In all that wrestling, the Spirit\u2019s absent. The Spirit shows up in Romans <i>8<\/i>.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\n<b>Bob:<\/b> You\u2019ve got to keep reading.\n\n<b>Joe:<\/b> You\u2019ve got to keep reading: \u201cThere is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free.\u201d<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\nYes; I think Paul is giving voice\u2014and we can identify and say, \u201cI know what\/okay, Paul gets it. He knows what I\u2019m feeling in this battle,\u201d\u2014but we can\u2019t stay there!<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\n<b>Bob:<\/b> Joe, was your victory in this issue an instantaneous\u2014\n\n<b>Joe:<\/b> Absolutely not.\n\n<b>Bob:<\/b> \u2014miraculous or was it remission over a period of time?<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\n<b>Joe:<\/b> I would say, in terms\u2014at one level, there was kind of an immediacy. It was the shock awake of: \u201cI\u2019m getting married. This is now <i>serious<\/i>. There are now other people involved, and I don\u2019t want to hurt anybody. I don\u2019t want my wife to be hurt,\u201d\u2014that was a wakeup call.\n\nBut the actual process of unlearning things, of reorienting, of having my mind, of having my body\u2014all of the long term\u2014it was a <i>long<\/i> road. There were stumbles in a sense of like you\u2019re conditioned in certain ways.\n\n<b>Bob:<\/b> Right.\n\n<b>Joe:<\/b> Certain things I noticed. I think this is one of the things that guys <i>miss<\/i>\u2014is it <i>didn\u2019t<\/i> get <i>easier<\/i>; it\u2019s probably going to get <i>harder<\/i>. You\u2019re going to feel like, \u201cWow; I\u2019m fighting at a different level.\u201d That\u2019s not a <i>defect<\/i>; that\u2019s God growing you up into maturity, so embrace that and keep pressing on. <i>Don\u2019t<\/i> quit.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\nOne of the principles at play here is: \u201cWhere you chose to fight is where the battle will be fought.\u201d\n\n<b>Bob: <\/b>Here\u2019s the thing I\u2019d say to all of us in this battle: \u201cOn the days you wake up and go, \u2018Oh, I\u2019m not really going anywhere today; I don\u2019t need to put my armor on. I\u2019m not really going to be in the battle today. I\u2019m going to be home alone. How much trouble can you get home alone?\u2019 If you\u2019re not armoring up\u2014this is Ephesians 6\u2014if you\u2019re not putting on the whole armor of God, engaging in the spiritual disciplines; if this is not a part of your <i>daily<\/i> ongoing reaction to this, then don\u2019t be surprised when you find yourself suffering arrow attacks in the middle of whatever.\n\n<b>Dave:<\/b> I think we\u2019ve already said this; but I think it is also <i>key<\/i> to understand: \u201cI\u2019m not Romans 7; I\u2019m Romans 8.\n\n<b>Bob:<\/b> That\u2019s right.\n\n<b>Dave:<\/b> \u201cI\u2019m not <i>defeated<\/i>. I <i>was<\/i>; I really didn\u2019t have the power to beat this. Even though I might win here and there, I couldn\u2019t win. I am Romans 8. I am <i>in Christ<\/i>. I\u2019m a warrior; I can put on the armor. I couldn\u2019t even put it on before.\u201d Yes, the battle is real; Paul says that\u2014but he gets to Romans 8:1\u2014he says, \u201cThere\u2026is no condemnation in Christ,\u201d \u201cI can walk by the Spirit of God.\u201d<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\n<i>Today is the day<\/i>. You\u2019ve got to take the step; <i>you\u2019ve got to<\/i> come out of the dark. Picture standing in front of your wife and kids someday, looking them in the eye and saying, \u201cThis marriage is blowing up, because I didn\u2019t win my porn battle.\u201d That\u2019s where this is going.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\n<b>Bob:<\/b> Yes.\n\n<b>Dave: <\/b>You\u2019ve got to remind yourself, \u201cI can stop that starting right here, right now.\u201d Get the mentor; get the buddies. Start walking by the Spirit and let God\u2014\n\n<b>Ann:<\/b> I would add this\u2014\n\n<b>Dave:<\/b> \u2014bring you victory.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\n<b>Ann:<\/b> I would add this too\u2014\n\n<b>Dave:<\/b> My wife\u2019s got to have the last little point; doesn\u2019t she? [Laughter]\n\n<b>Ann:<\/b> I\u2019ve been trying to get it in. As a woman, I used to think, \u201cI wish Dave would put his armor on.\u201d Yet, we don\u2019t have control of our husbands; but we have control of our own lives. One of the greatest places that we can do battle is on our knees; this is on us too: \u201c<i>Let\u2019s battle for our families<\/i>. <i>Let\u2019s battle for our husbands<\/i>. <i>Let\u2019s battle for our children on our knees<\/i>. Let\u2019s get girlfriends to say, \u2018Let\u2019s take this home back for Jesus in the power of the Spirit and walk in the Spirit.\u2019\u201d<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\n<b>Bob:<\/b> Joe, thank you for your transparency. Thank you for the book. Thank you for helping <i>all of us<\/i> in this battle.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\n<b>Joe:<\/b> It\u2019s my pleasure.\n\n<b>Bob:<\/b> Let\u2019s hope that a lot of our listeners will get in touch with us and get a copy of your book, <i>More Than a Battle<\/i>. We\u2019re making it available this week to any <i>FamilyLife Today<\/i> listener who\u2019d like to get a copy and can make a donation to support the ministry. Whatever your donation is, ask for your copy of Joe Rigney\u2019s book, <i>More Than a Battle<\/i>.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\nPlan to get <i>multiple<\/i> copies. Plan to go through this book with other guys, whether it\u2019s a small group that you\u2019ve got, or maybe you just need to get a group of guys together and say, \u201cThis is something I\u2019ve been wrestling with.\u201d I know that sounds threatening, but this is how you get help. This is where hope comes from. Get a group of guys\/say, \u201cI\u2019ve been struggling with this. I don\u2019t know if you are, but I\u2019m guessing most of us have been struggling with this. Even if you\u2019re not, maybe you can be a mentor to me.\u201d<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\nGet your copy of Joe Rigney\u2019s book, <i>More Than a Battle<\/i>. It\u2019s available when you make a donation to <i>FamilyLife Today<\/i>. What you\u2019re supporting when you make that donation is this program being heard in your community and in communities all around the world. You\u2019re helping us bring practical biblical help and hope to marriages and families every day of the year. We\u2019ve got more people than ever listening on our mobile app, listening online, listening on this local station. <i>You<\/i> make that possible when you support this ministry.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\nYou can donate, online, at FamilyLife.com; or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY to donate. Again, ask for your copy of Joe Rigney\u2019s book, <i>More Than a Battle<\/i>, when you make your donation. We\u2019re happy to send it to you as a way of saying, \u201cThank you for your support.\u201d We look forward to hearing from you.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\nNow, tomorrow, we\u2019re going to talk about: \u201cWhat is the essence\/what\u2019s the core of real leadership? What does that look like?\u201d We\u2019re going to be talking to somebody, who\u2019s seen guys, who have been leaders in the sports arena for years: Jason Romano from <i>Sports Spectrum.<\/i> But he\u2019s got a lot to say to us\u2014as husbands\/dads\u2014to all of us as we seek to lead in our marriages and in our families. I hope you can tune in for that.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\nI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back tomorrow for another edition of <i>FamilyLife Today<\/i>.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\n<i>FamilyLife Today<\/i> is a production of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> of Little Rock, Arkansas;<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\na Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\nWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs? <span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\nCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2021 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\n<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a> <span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:27:53"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["25.54M"],"filesize_raw":["26777356"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-306710.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-306710.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: 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you're in a war, like pornography, it makes sense to have a strategy for the battles. Dr. Joe Rigney talks about how to overcome the enemy and walk in victory.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/familylifetodaypdfs.s3.us-east-1.amazonaws.com\/fl2021-02-03.pdf","transcript_content":"<b>Bob: <\/b>There are a lot of husbands who have a lot of messed up ideas when it comes to their expectations around marital intimacy. Joe Rigney says there\u2019s a good reason for that.\n\n<b>Joe:<\/b> What\u2019s happened is: \u201cFor a number of years, you have been taking sex ed curriculum from liars and incompetents\u201d\u2014that\u2019s what pornography is\u2014you have been conditioned to think that this is what sexuality is. Then you get into marriage and you go, \u201cThat\u2019s not how it is!\u201d [Pornography]\u2014That\u2019s a lie; that\u2019s artificial; it\u2019s <i>fake<\/i>; yet, you\u2019ve conditioned yourself by the choices you\u2019ve made; and now you need to unlearn some things.\n\n<b>Bob: <\/b>This is <i>FamilyLife Today<\/i> for Wednesday, February 3<sup>rd<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I'm Bob Lepine. You can find us online at FamilyLifeToday.com. There are lots of things about sexuality that many of us need to unlearn and lots of things about dealing with our own lust that many of us need to begin to practice. We\u2019re going to talk about both of those things today. Stay with us.\n\n<b>Bob: <\/b>And welcome to <i>FamilyLife Today<\/i>. Thanks for joining us. I remember speaking to a group of men\u2014it\u2019s about 1500 guys\u2014and we were talking about lust and temptation\/sexual sin. I asked every guy in the room to stand up; I said, \u201cEverybody stand up, except the single guys. Single guys, you can stay seated. Just all the married guys stand up.\u201d<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\nThen I said, \u201cI want you to sit down if, since you got married, you have not had any ongoing struggle with pornography or lust. Go ahead and sit down.\u201d I think maybe four guys in the room sat down.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\n<b>Ann:<\/b> Ah, that\u2019s so depressing.\n\n<b>Dave:<\/b> You\u2019re saying four guys had <i>not<\/i> struggled\u2014\n\n<b>Bob:<\/b> \u2014since they\u2014\n\n<b>Dave:<\/b> \u2014everybody else had.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\n<b>Bob:<\/b> Right.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\n<b>Dave:<\/b> Yes.\n\n<b>Bob:<\/b> I said to the single guys, \u201cI wanted to do this for <i>you<\/i> because I wanted you single guys, who are thinking, \u2018I\u2019ve got this struggle going on in my life, but when I\u2019m married\u2014\n\n<b>Ann:<\/b> Yes.\n\n<b>Bob<\/b><b>:<\/b> \u2014\u201c\u2018and when I\u2019m able to be intimate with my wife regularly, then\u2014\n\n<b>Ann:<\/b> \u2014\u201c\u2018it will go away.\u2019\u201d\n\n<b>Bob:<\/b> \u2014\u201c\u2019this battle will go away.\u2019\u201d I wanted them to see: \u201cHere\u2019s the testimony of the tribe; it\u2019s not going to go away. That\u2019s not the <i>cure<\/i> you\u2019re looking for; that\u2019s not going to fix this for you.\u201d<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\n<b>Ann:<\/b> Bob, most women that are engaged, and their fianc\u00e9 has come and talked to them, like, \u201cThis has been a battle in the past,\u201d\u2014and he\u2019s usually reassuring\u2014\u201cbut I\u2019m sure, when we get married, it will no longer be a battle.\u201d<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\n<b>Bob:<\/b> Right.\n\n<b>Ann:<\/b> I think it\u2019s important for her to know: \u201cThis could be something that we need to battle together.\u201d It\u2019s not an easy conversation to have.\n\n<b>Bob:<\/b> Your fianc\u00e9 almost certainly has had <i>exposure<\/i> to pornography. The question is: \u201cWhat\u2019s that ongoing exposure looked like, and how is this going to impact your marriage?\u201d<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\n<b>Dave:<\/b> We need help, Bob.\n\n<b>Bob:<\/b> We do need help.\n\n<b>Ann:<\/b> You do need help. [Laughter]\n\n<b>Dave:<\/b> We need a doctor in the house. [Laughter] And we\u2019ve got one.\n\n<b>Bob:<\/b> Joe Rigney is joining us this week on FamilyLife Today. Joe, welcome back.\n\n<b>Joe:<\/b> It\u2019s great to be here.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\n<b>Bob:<\/b> Joe is a pastor in the Twin Cities. He is an associate professor at Bethlehem College and Seminary; and He\u2019s written a book called <i>More Than a Battle<\/i>, which is a battle plan for guys to know how you get free from what is a battle for all of us.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\nJoe, you\u2019ve talked about your own struggle with this issue. One of the things you say in the book is the whole idea of what it means to walk by the Spirit was kind of a revolutionary game-changer for you. Now, you\u2019d heard about walking by the Spirit for years; but some light came on that affected your battle with porn.\n\n<b>Joe:<\/b> Yes; there\u2019s this great text in Galatians, Chapter 5, where Paul says, \u201cWalk by the Spirit and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.\u201d In the original Greek, it\u2019s actually an intensified negation; it is: \u201cWalk by the Spirit and you will absolutely not gratify the desires of the flesh.\u201d That\u2019s an amazing promise. Immediately, he comes back and he says, \u201cFor the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, so that you don\u2019t do the things that you want because they\u2019re opposed to each other.\u201d\n\nFor a long time, I thought, \u201cWhat that sounds like: great promise; realistic walk back,\u201d\u2014like Paul\u2019s sort of saying, \u201cHey, if you walk by the Spirit, you won\u2019t do this at all; but you still kind of will,\u201d\u2014<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\n<b>Dave:<\/b> Yes.\n\n<b>Joe:<\/b> \u2014like, \u201cdesires of the flesh\u201d: \u201cThere\u2019s going to be a war, and you\u2019re going to lose some.\u201d\n\n<b>Dave:<\/b> By the way, you just described <i>most<\/i> men\u2019s Christian walk: \u201cYou kind of will.\u201d We got to hear the rest because\u2014\n\n<b>Joe:<\/b> What the game-changer was\/is\u2014I had a friend in seminary, who was working on that passage. He said, \u201cYou know, if you flip it around, but kind of keep the logic of the passage.\u201d The logic of the passage is: \u201cWalk by the Spirit; you won\u2019t gratify the desires of the flesh, <i>because<\/i> those are opposed to each other,\u201d and \u201cYou don\u2019t do the things that you want.\u201d<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\nHe said, \u201cFlip it.\u201d What he said was: \u201cThe desires of the flesh are against the Spirit; the desires of the Spirit against the flesh. These are opposed to each other; therefore, walk by the Spirit and you won\u2019t gratify the desires of the flesh.\u201d It was like the light just went, \u201cBoom.\u201d What it meant was\u2014it\u2019s <i>not<\/i> that you have this promise, and there\u2019s a realistic walk back\u2014it\u2019s that you wake up, every day, in a war. You\u2019re a Christian\u2014there\u2019s the spiritual desires; there\u2019s fleshly desires\u2014they\u2019re opposed to each other. It\u2019s this pitch battle, so what should you do?\u2014\u201cWalk by the Spirit,\u201d\u2014and then there\u2019s a promise\u2014\u201cand you won\u2019t gratify those desires of the flesh.\u201d That was a <i>major<\/i> thing.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\nThen what it signaled was: \u201cWe start in a war.\u201d The destination that we\u2019re going for is not gratifying the desires of the flesh, which isn\u2019t the same as not having any desires. The language of gratify is: \u201cBasically, desires want to take you someplace. Desires entice, and they pull you\u201d\u2014right?\u2014desires want you to go someplace. If you let them take you there, that\u2019s called <i>gratifying<\/i> the desire or <i>indulging<\/i> the desire. The promise is, <i>not<\/i> that there won\u2019t be a desire, but that you won\u2019t gratify it.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\n\u201cThen what\u2019s the bridge between where we start and our destination?\u201d\u2014answer: \u201cWalk by the Spirit,\u201d\u2014which means that the question: \u201cWhat does that even mean?\u201d\u2014becomes <i>massively<\/i> important in terms of our sanctification. \u201cHow do we get from this warfare, where we\u2019re <i>frustrated<\/i>, to measures of victory that maybe we can\u2019t even imagine yet?\u201d\n\n<b>Bob: <\/b>Joe, what does that even mean?<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\n<b>Joe:<\/b> What does that even mean? [Laughter] I wrote a book about it. [Laughter] I think one of the things it means is it reorients us to the kind of struggle that this is. I\u2019m borrowing this from the late Dr. David Powlison; he was another game-changer. In 2004, I heard him give a message called \u201cMaking All Things New\u201d at the <i>Desiring God<\/i> National Conference in Minneapolis.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\nI came up, as a college student; he gave a talk called \u201cMaking All Things New,\u201d\u2014eventually, turned it into a little book\/Crossway published this little book\u2014kind of an expanded version of that. In that talk, he basically said, \u201cLook, this is a longer war; this is a deeper war; this is a wider war; this is more\u2026\u201d It just opened my eyes to things in my life that I had no idea had anything to do with the struggle against sexual sin, but <i>absolutely<\/i> did.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\nI lean on him heavily to really get a vision of: \u201cPart of walking by the Spirit is recognizing this is a long obedience in the same direction.\u201d This is not a flash in the pan\/you just\u2014God suddenly flips a switch\u2014He\u2019s not going to zap you probably. Maybe He knocks you off your horse, like Paul; but more likely: \u201cIt\u2019s going to be you waking up, day after day, and making certain choices by the Spirit of God to be confronted with the temptations and to walk away.\u201d<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\nThere\u2019s layers of the fight. Walking by the Spirit is\u2014\u201cBy the Spirit\u2019s power, there\u2019s a lifestyle; there\u2019s a way of conducting yourself\/a way of walking in the world that <i>fits<\/i> with the Spirit\u2019s desires,\u201d\u2014that\u2019s what we\u2019re after.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\n<b>Dave:<\/b> It\u2019s interesting\u2014Paul\u2019s getting at it; and Joe, you\u2019re developing it so well that the answer\u2014\u201cThe victory journey is <i>not<\/i> horizontal. It\u2019s capital \u2018S\u2019\/Spirit; it\u2019s not my human spirit.\u201d<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\nIt\u2019s almost like\u2014I mean, when you were talking, I picture a human being, with a plug in his hand, looking for an outlet to get my power source. What Bob said earlier, when those men stood up\u2014is we think, \u201cIf I get married, I plug this into marriage and my spouse; we\u2019ll be able to have sexual intimacy. The struggle\u2019s going to go away, so <i>that\u2019s<\/i> going to be my power,\u201d and then it <i>isn\u2019t<\/i>.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\n<b>Joe:<\/b> It\u2019s not.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\n<b>Dave:<\/b> So you go, \u201cPumpf\u201d; and you unplug. You\u2019re like, \u201cOkay, it\u2019s\u2026\u201d What you\u2019re saying\/Paul is saying: \u201cThat has to go <i>vertical<\/i>.\n\n<b>Joe:<\/b> Yes.\n\n<b>Dave:<\/b> \u201cYou\u2019ll <i>never<\/i> win this battle in human spirit. It\u2019s Holy Spirit power\u2014\u2018Walk by the Spirit.\u2019\u201d<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\n<b>Joe:<\/b> Yes.\n\n<b>Dave:<\/b> You said that means we\u2019re making daily choices. Help us! There\u2019s a guy listening, going, \u201cOkay, I believe it; but I still don\u2019t know what that looks like. How do I win this thing?\u201d<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\n<b>Ann:<\/b> Let me add this, too, Dave. Because it\u2019s a battle that\u2019s going on\u2014not only in the husband\u2019s life\u2014but it\u2019s the wife\u2019s life as well; because there\u2019s a battle taking place to pull us apart from one another. For women, we too need to know: \u201cHow do I battle alongside my husband?\u201d because this topic draws us\/pulls us away as partners but, also, our whole family. We, as women, can become so resentful, so angry, so numb that we want nothing to do with our husbands. At that point, Satan wins.\n\n<b>Joe:<\/b> Right; one thing is that the story Bob told, I think, in a weird way, ought to encourage women. You said, \u201cIt\u2019s depressing.\u201d It absolutely is; but for a wife then, who has a husband who is dealing with this, she needs to know it\u2019s not about <i>her<\/i>.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\n<b>Ann:<\/b> Right; it\u2019s so <i>hard<\/i> not to go there though.\n\n<b>Joe:<\/b> You assume it\u2019s about: \u201cIt must be me\u2014some flaw in me\/some failure. If I was different, he wouldn\u2019t do this.\u201d<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\n<b>Dave:<\/b> Right.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\n<b>Joe:<\/b> That\u2019s <i>not<\/i> true.\n\n<b>Ann:<\/b> Many women will say, \u201cHe\u2019s basically having an affair with another woman that\u2019s not real.\u201d\n\n<b>Joe: <\/b>That\u2019s right. I think for wives, one of the things to get straight on is: \u201cThis isn\u2019t <i>my<\/i> fault; therefore, I have to be able to entrust him to <i>God<\/i>. This is between him and the Lord, fundamentally.\u201d\n\nThe reason why single guys, who are dealing\/who are neck deep in porn, think marriage is going to fix it is that they think: \u201cIntimacy is intimacy,\u201d\u2014that\u2014\u201cSex is just sex.\u201d But it\u2019s like, \u201cNo.\u201d What\u2019s happened is: \u201cFor a number of years, you have been taking sex ed\u201d\u2014this is a quote from a pastor friend of mine\u2014\u201csex ed curriculum from liars and incompetents,\u201d\u2014that\u2019s what pornography is\u2014right?\u2014you have been conditioned to think that this is what sexuality looked like. Then you get into marriage and you go, \u201cThat\u2019s not how it is!\u201d [Pornography]\u2014that\u2019s a lie; that\u2019s artificial; it\u2019s <i>fake<\/i>. Yet, you\u2019ve conditioned yourself to be aroused by that; therefore, making love to a real woman just doesn\u2019t work. Therefore, you get stuck. Part of it is you\u2019ve been conditioned wrong by the choices you\u2019ve made; and now you need to unlearn some things about what women are, and who women are, and what a man is, and all this stuff.\n\nFor a wife, she needs to go, \u201cThis is ultimately between him and the Lord; therefore my role is supportive. I need to be worried about <i>me<\/i>: \u201cWhere\u2019s the trap here?\u201d This is one of the main things I talk about in the book\u2014is the schemes of the devil. Paul has this great phrase: \u201cthe schemes of the devil.\u201d \u201cWe\u2019re not unaware of his schemes.\u201d The idea is\u2014you guys remember the old TV show, <i>24<\/i>?\n\n<b>Ann and Dave:<\/b> Yes.\n\n<b>Joe:<\/b> You guys remember Jack Bauer?<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\n<b>Ann:<\/b> Right\n\n<b>Bob: <\/b>Yes.\n\n<b>Joe:<\/b> If you\u2019re watching that show, you know there\u2019s 24 hours. You\u2019re watching that show, and about hour six, if Jack\u2019s closing in on the bad guy, you know there\u2019s about to be a twist; right? [Laughter] You know he can\u2019t catch him now; we\u2019ve got 18 more hours to go. At hour six, you know there\u2019s about to be a deeper plot revealed. Then at hour 12, there\u2019s going to be a deeper plot revealed; and there\u2019s always going to be a deeper plot.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\nThat\u2019s how the devil is. In a marriage, plot number one\/scheme number one is: \u201cI\u2019m going to get this guy to fall. I\u2019m going to get him to look at pornography.\u201d Once that\u2019s accomplished, success for the devil. It\u2019s not like he packs it up and goes home. He goes, \u201cI\u2019ve got another plot now. I\u2019m going to get him to hide it.\u201d<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\nSay that one doesn\u2019t work; say he comes clean: \u201cOh, it\u2019s okay. I\u2019ve got another plot. Now I\u2019m going to use it to tear his marriage apart. I\u2019m going to work on his wife. I\u2019m going to stoke the fear, and that resentment, and that anger in her,\u201d\u2014so <i>you\u2019re<\/i> the target of that spiritual attack\u2014it\u2019s not just that you\u2019re watching your husband fall into sin. There\u2019s a danger for a wife. This is where you get mutually-feeding spousal sins. His temptation to lust and your temptation to anger and fear is going to create a dynamic in the marriage that\u2019s going to build a <i>massive<\/i> wall. Part of walking by the Spirit is not being ignorant of the devil\u2019s schemes.\n\n<b>Ann:<\/b> So good.\n\n<b>Dave:<\/b> Some of that\u2019s just training your mind and being\u2014again, a mentor can really help you\u2014<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\n<b>Joe:<\/b> Yes.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\n<b>Dave:<\/b> \u2014understand that scheme\/that pattern, what goes on, and what\/the deception behind it.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\nBut you just mentioned something that I found intriguing in your book: the connection between anger and lust. Now you mentioned it with the wife being angry; but in the book, you\u2019re talking about a <i>man\u2019s<\/i> anger sometimes connects or spurs on a lustful desire. Talk about that.\n\n<b>Joe:<\/b> Yes; so this is an insight from a counselor named Jay Stringer, who wrote a book on this subject on sexual brokenness.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\n<b>Dave:<\/b> We had Jay on the program.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\n<b>Ann:<\/b> Yes.\n\n<b>Joe:<\/b> Oh, did you. His book\u2019s very, very helpful. He did all the research, and I just got the benefit of it; right? He talks about how it\u2019s interesting\/the way he says he\u2019s never met someone, who has a lust problem, who also doesn\u2019t have an anger problem. Oftentimes this is why, especially as the pornography epidemic has multiplied, that the pornography that guys are getting into these days is much more degrading; because there\u2019s an anger involved.\n\nAgain, we talked earlier the desire for validation that guys feel. That\u2019s part of the craving that they are seeking to satisfy through pornography is: \u201cI want to be known and admired as a man.\u201d The anger is: \u201cI\u2019m <i>not<\/i> known and admired as a man in my daily life, at work, in my marriage, with my kids,\u201d\u2014wherever it is\u2014\u201cIn life, I\u2019m not known and admired as a man. That makes me angry, and I\u2019m going to go get admired by a woman,\u201d or \u201cI\u2019m going to go degrade a woman in my imagination.\u201d<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\nAgain, this is where\u2014if you only treat this as: \u201cGuys like to look at naked women,\u201d\u2014and you don\u2019t recognize there might be a deep anger at the world, and at God, and at wife\u2014that, as a mentor, I\u2019m going to be keying in on that because, until you diffuse that little time bomb, it doesn\u2019t matter how much you talk about software programs and things to help keep that away\u2014as valuable as those may be\u2014those are treating symptoms. You\u2019ve got to go down for the roots.\n\n<b>Dave:<\/b> Yes; and I\u2019ve found, as I sit with men in my church, I\u2019ve also found\u2014and you\u2019ve just mentioned it\u2014there\u2019s an anger toward God\u2014\n\n<b>Joe:<\/b> Yes.\n\n<b>Dave: <\/b>\u2014like, \u201cGod hasn\u2019t come through. My relationship with Him is not what I thought it would be. The power that is in walking in the Spirit, I haven\u2019t really experienced.\u201d It\u2019s almost like, \u201cYou know, you haven\u2019t done it for me, God. I\u2019m going to go somewhere I know I shouldn\u2019t go, but it\u2019s going to feel good,\u201d\u2014it\u2019s like <i>feeding<\/i> that. Have you seen that as well?\n\n<b>Joe:<\/b> Absolutely; yes, the anger at God. This could be true for married guys; it could be true for single guys: \u201cI want to be married, and God hadn\u2019t provided the woman; so I\u2019m going to act out by looking at something.\u201d You can\u2019t actually punch God in the face. But what I can do is: \u201cWhat I can do is\u2014I can defy You. I can go seek satisfaction over here,\u201d as a way almost of getting back.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\nSin\u2019s so subtle. We don\u2019t recognize that until <i>after<\/i> the fact: \u201cOh, that\u2019s what I was doing.\u201d But this is where, again, wise mentors can say, \u201cI see the temptation that\u2019s coming down the way here. Where you\u2019re at, this is the thing that\u2019s coming next.\u201d One of the things with the mentors, with the marriage question, is helping husbands and wives, who are in this, to have honest, but guided, conversations.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\nHere\u2019s a real practical one. Because men and women are different, we experience attraction different. My wife and I would get tripped up in our first year of marriage when she would say, \u201cWere you attracted to that waitress? You looked like you noticed. Were you attracted to her?\u201d \u201cYes; she\u2019s attractive.\u201d \u201cHow could you say that?! What do you mean you were attracted to her?\u201d<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\nI was like, \u201cWait, wait,\u201d and I would stop and I\u2019d say, \u201cYou mean you\u2019re not attracted to other <i>men<\/i>?\u201d She was like, \u201cAbsolutely not.\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cNo, no, no, wait. Hold on. Time out. You don\u2019t think that other men are attractive?\u201d She says, \u201cNo, I totally think other men are attractive. I\u2019m just not attracted to them.\u201d<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\nI went, \u201cThat\u2019s just not computing. I don\u2019t\/my categories\u2014[Laughter]\u2014you\u2019re saying they\u2019re attractive, but you\u2019re not attracted to them.\u201d In <i>her<\/i> mind, those were radically different things. She could recognize, \u201cThat man is handsome,\u201d but have no desire or draw to him in a certain kind of way because, typically, it needed to be more emotionally fueled; right?\n\n<b>Bob:<\/b> Right.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\n<b>Joe:<\/b> We were just <i>missing<\/i> each other, and there was fights and tensions in the marriage. Somebody else needed to come in and say, \u201cHold on. This is just a vocabulary problem, y\u2019all.\u201d We needed somebody to help us work through that; otherwise, we would just get stuck.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\n<b>Dave:<\/b> I\u2019m thinking it\u2019s so easy to do that, as a man, if you\u2019re struggling with porn; because you don\u2019t look at women as women.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\n<b>Joe:<\/b> Yes.\n\n<b>Dave:<\/b> You <i>have<\/i> to understand what it does to your mind.\n\n<b>Joe:<\/b> Yes.\n\n<b>Dave:<\/b> It is <i>not<\/i> pure; you say in the book, \u201cIt\u2019s immoral.\u201d It really is because you look at people different. A woman that says, \u201cHe\u2019s attractive, but I\u2019m not attracted to him,\u201d is like they probably have never allowed that to distort. You know what I\u2019m saying?\n\n<b>Joe:<\/b> Yes; women are not objects for male gratification; and men are not beasts who prey upon women.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\nThat\u2019s what pornography teaches: \u201cMen are just animals and women are just objects.\u201d If you\u2014that\u2019s the catechism; that\u2019s what you\u2019re taught\u2014you\u2019re conditioned to think: \u201cThat\u2019s what men are,\u201d \u201cThat\u2019s what women are,\u201d\u2014which means you think of yourself that way as a man: \u201cI\u2019m just a beast, and I need to be put in a cage.\u201d A wife is going to then feel like, \u201cYes, you do.\u201d It\u2019s going to condition; it\u2019s going to affect the way you engage with other women.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\n<b>Dave:<\/b> Then you\u2019ve got the guy that will say\u2014because I\u2019ve had them sit in my office, look me in the eye\u2014one guy even wrote it down; he said, \u201cI know what\u2019s right, but I can\u2019t do it. I find something in my soul that keeps me from doing what is right. I want to do what\u2019s right, but I can\u2019t do it.\u201d You ever heard that one before?<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\n<b>Joe:<\/b> Oh, yes.\n\n<b>Dave:<\/b> That\u2019s Romans 7.\n\n<b>Joe:<\/b> That\u2019s Romans 7. [Laughter]\n\n<b>Dave:<\/b> I\u2019m quoting Romans 7.\n\n<b>Bob:<\/b> That\u2019s right.\n\n<b>Dave:<\/b> The Apostle Paul wrote that. But I think a lot of men read that, and you talk about it in your book; it\u2019s like, \u201cOh, I\u2019ve\/he battled\u2014<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\n<b>Bob:<\/b> \u201cThat\u2019s my \u2018Get out of Jail Free\u2019 card.\u201d\n\n<b>Dave:<\/b> \u2014 like: \u201cHe didn\u2019t win; I didn\u2019t win.\u201d<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\n<b>Joe:<\/b> Yes; that\u2019s right.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\n<b>Dave:<\/b> \u201cSo, hey, you know, I\u2019m just\u2014\n\n<b>Joe:<\/b> They settle.\n\n<b>Dave:<\/b> \u201cI\u2019m just being a guy\u201d; yes.\n\n<b>Joe:<\/b> They settle; right. The thing about Romans 7 that\u2019s interesting is that, in<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\nRomans 7, the Spirit doesn\u2019t show up in that struggle, where he\u2019s like, \u201cI know the good thing; I do what I hate.\u201d In all that wrestling, the Spirit\u2019s absent. The Spirit shows up in Romans <i>8<\/i>.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\n<b>Bob:<\/b> You\u2019ve got to keep reading.\n\n<b>Joe:<\/b> You\u2019ve got to keep reading: \u201cThere is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free.\u201d<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\nYes; I think Paul is giving voice\u2014and we can identify and say, \u201cI know what\/okay, Paul gets it. He knows what I\u2019m feeling in this battle,\u201d\u2014but we can\u2019t stay there!<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\n<b>Bob:<\/b> Joe, was your victory in this issue an instantaneous\u2014\n\n<b>Joe:<\/b> Absolutely not.\n\n<b>Bob:<\/b> \u2014miraculous or was it remission over a period of time?<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\n<b>Joe:<\/b> I would say, in terms\u2014at one level, there was kind of an immediacy. It was the shock awake of: \u201cI\u2019m getting married. This is now <i>serious<\/i>. There are now other people involved, and I don\u2019t want to hurt anybody. I don\u2019t want my wife to be hurt,\u201d\u2014that was a wakeup call.\n\nBut the actual process of unlearning things, of reorienting, of having my mind, of having my body\u2014all of the long term\u2014it was a <i>long<\/i> road. There were stumbles in a sense of like you\u2019re conditioned in certain ways.\n\n<b>Bob:<\/b> Right.\n\n<b>Joe:<\/b> Certain things I noticed. I think this is one of the things that guys <i>miss<\/i>\u2014is it <i>didn\u2019t<\/i> get <i>easier<\/i>; it\u2019s probably going to get <i>harder<\/i>. You\u2019re going to feel like, \u201cWow; I\u2019m fighting at a different level.\u201d That\u2019s not a <i>defect<\/i>; that\u2019s God growing you up into maturity, so embrace that and keep pressing on. <i>Don\u2019t<\/i> quit.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\nOne of the principles at play here is: \u201cWhere you chose to fight is where the battle will be fought.\u201d\n\n<b>Bob: <\/b>Here\u2019s the thing I\u2019d say to all of us in this battle: \u201cOn the days you wake up and go, \u2018Oh, I\u2019m not really going anywhere today; I don\u2019t need to put my armor on. I\u2019m not really going to be in the battle today. I\u2019m going to be home alone. How much trouble can you get home alone?\u2019 If you\u2019re not armoring up\u2014this is Ephesians 6\u2014if you\u2019re not putting on the whole armor of God, engaging in the spiritual disciplines; if this is not a part of your <i>daily<\/i> ongoing reaction to this, then don\u2019t be surprised when you find yourself suffering arrow attacks in the middle of whatever.\n\n<b>Dave:<\/b> I think we\u2019ve already said this; but I think it is also <i>key<\/i> to understand: \u201cI\u2019m not Romans 7; I\u2019m Romans 8.\n\n<b>Bob:<\/b> That\u2019s right.\n\n<b>Dave:<\/b> \u201cI\u2019m not <i>defeated<\/i>. I <i>was<\/i>; I really didn\u2019t have the power to beat this. Even though I might win here and there, I couldn\u2019t win. I am Romans 8. I am <i>in Christ<\/i>. I\u2019m a warrior; I can put on the armor. I couldn\u2019t even put it on before.\u201d Yes, the battle is real; Paul says that\u2014but he gets to Romans 8:1\u2014he says, \u201cThere\u2026is no condemnation in Christ,\u201d \u201cI can walk by the Spirit of God.\u201d<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\n<i>Today is the day<\/i>. You\u2019ve got to take the step; <i>you\u2019ve got to<\/i> come out of the dark. Picture standing in front of your wife and kids someday, looking them in the eye and saying, \u201cThis marriage is blowing up, because I didn\u2019t win my porn battle.\u201d That\u2019s where this is going.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\n<b>Bob:<\/b> Yes.\n\n<b>Dave: <\/b>You\u2019ve got to remind yourself, \u201cI can stop that starting right here, right now.\u201d Get the mentor; get the buddies. Start walking by the Spirit and let God\u2014\n\n<b>Ann:<\/b> I would add this\u2014\n\n<b>Dave:<\/b> \u2014bring you victory.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\n<b>Ann:<\/b> I would add this too\u2014\n\n<b>Dave:<\/b> My wife\u2019s got to have the last little point; doesn\u2019t she? [Laughter]\n\n<b>Ann:<\/b> I\u2019ve been trying to get it in. As a woman, I used to think, \u201cI wish Dave would put his armor on.\u201d Yet, we don\u2019t have control of our husbands; but we have control of our own lives. One of the greatest places that we can do battle is on our knees; this is on us too: \u201c<i>Let\u2019s battle for our families<\/i>. <i>Let\u2019s battle for our husbands<\/i>. <i>Let\u2019s battle for our children on our knees<\/i>. Let\u2019s get girlfriends to say, \u2018Let\u2019s take this home back for Jesus in the power of the Spirit and walk in the Spirit.\u2019\u201d<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\n<b>Bob:<\/b> Joe, thank you for your transparency. Thank you for the book. Thank you for helping <i>all of us<\/i> in this battle.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\n<b>Joe:<\/b> It\u2019s my pleasure.\n\n<b>Bob:<\/b> Let\u2019s hope that a lot of our listeners will get in touch with us and get a copy of your book, <i>More Than a Battle<\/i>. We\u2019re making it available this week to any <i>FamilyLife Today<\/i> listener who\u2019d like to get a copy and can make a donation to support the ministry. Whatever your donation is, ask for your copy of Joe Rigney\u2019s book, <i>More Than a Battle<\/i>.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\nPlan to get <i>multiple<\/i> copies. Plan to go through this book with other guys, whether it\u2019s a small group that you\u2019ve got, or maybe you just need to get a group of guys together and say, \u201cThis is something I\u2019ve been wrestling with.\u201d I know that sounds threatening, but this is how you get help. This is where hope comes from. Get a group of guys\/say, \u201cI\u2019ve been struggling with this. I don\u2019t know if you are, but I\u2019m guessing most of us have been struggling with this. Even if you\u2019re not, maybe you can be a mentor to me.\u201d<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\nGet your copy of Joe Rigney\u2019s book, <i>More Than a Battle<\/i>. It\u2019s available when you make a donation to <i>FamilyLife Today<\/i>. What you\u2019re supporting when you make that donation is this program being heard in your community and in communities all around the world. You\u2019re helping us bring practical biblical help and hope to marriages and families every day of the year. We\u2019ve got more people than ever listening on our mobile app, listening online, listening on this local station. <i>You<\/i> make that possible when you support this ministry.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\nYou can donate, online, at FamilyLife.com; or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY to donate. Again, ask for your copy of Joe Rigney\u2019s book, <i>More Than a Battle<\/i>, when you make your donation. We\u2019re happy to send it to you as a way of saying, \u201cThank you for your support.\u201d We look forward to hearing from you.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\nNow, tomorrow, we\u2019re going to talk about: \u201cWhat is the essence\/what\u2019s the core of real leadership? What does that look like?\u201d We\u2019re going to be talking to somebody, who\u2019s seen guys, who have been leaders in the sports arena for years: Jason Romano from <i>Sports Spectrum.<\/i> But he\u2019s got a lot to say to us\u2014as husbands\/dads\u2014to all of us as we seek to lead in our marriages and in our families. I hope you can tune in for that.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\nI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back tomorrow for another edition of <i>FamilyLife Today<\/i>.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\n<i>FamilyLife Today<\/i> is a production of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> of Little Rock, Arkansas;<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\na Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\nWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs? <span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span>\n\nCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2021 FamilyLife. 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