{"id":306677,"date":"2021-01-13T07:00:04","date_gmt":"2021-01-13T12:00:04","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/the-deeper-truth-about-introverts\/"},"modified":"2021-01-13T07:00:04","modified_gmt":"2021-01-13T12:00:04","slug":"the-deeper-truth-about-introverts","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/the-deeper-truth-about-introverts\/","title":{"rendered":"The Deeper Truth About Introverts"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>Are you, or someone you love, an introvert? Join hosts Dave and Ann Wilson on FamilyLife Today as they talk with Holley Gerth, author of the book &#8220;The Powerful Purpose of Introverts,&#8221; about the misconceptions and surprising truth of what it really means to be an introvert.<br \/>\nShow Notes and Resources<\/p>\n<p> \tFind more from Holley Gerth and take the &#8220;What % Introvert are YOU?&#8221; quiz.\u00a0 https:\/\/holleygerth.com\/<br \/>\n \tFind out more from Chap Bettis&#8217;s book The Disciple-Making Parent. \u00a0http:\/\/thedisciplemakingparent.com<br \/>\n \tDownload FamilyLife&#8217;s new app! https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/app\/<br \/>\n \tFind resources from this podcast at https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/Products.aspx?categoryid=130.<br \/>\n \tCheck out all that&#8217;s available on the FamilyLife Podcast Network.\u00a0 https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/familylife-podcast-network\/<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Are you, or someone you love, an introvert? Holley Gerth talks about the misconceptions and surprising truth of what it really means to be an introvert.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2021-01-13.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:27:53","filesize":"25.53M","filesize_raw":"26773039","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2848,2873,2862],"tags":[6966],"podcast_series":[8421],"cwp_profile":[9686],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-306677","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-cultural-issues","category-mental-and-emotional-issues","category-understanding-differences","tag-introverts","podcast_series-the-powerful-purpose-of-introverts","cwp_profile-holley-gerth","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/306677\/the-deeper-truth-about-introverts","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/306677\/the-deeper-truth-about-introverts","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"5Qn8JxH6rq\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/the-deeper-truth-about-introverts\/\">The Deeper Truth About Introverts<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/the-deeper-truth-about-introverts\/embed\/#?secret=5Qn8JxH6rq\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;The Deeper Truth About Introverts&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"5Qn8JxH6rq\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2021-01-13.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2021-01-13.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You may have found yourself thinking, at some point in your life, the way Holley Gerth used to think, that even though she was by nature an introvert, she had to force herself to become an extrovert if she really loved Jesus.\n\n<strong>Holley:<\/strong> I thought that the more people in my life equaled the more I loved Jesus and the more I loved people, so I literally forced myself to the brink of burnout.\n\nI was at a conference. I had done\u2014it had been a year full of traveling\u2014I think it was my 20<sup>th<\/sup> trip. I did a keynote; and in Sunday morning worship, I could not stop crying. I felt like God said, \u201cIt\u2019s time to go home.\u201d I knew that meant, \u201cGet on the plane, go home and take a nap.\u201d But I also knew it meant: \u201c<em>Go home to who I created you to be<\/em>. I made you an introvert on purpose. You do not have to be someone you are not to fulfill My purpose for your life.\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Wednesday, January 13<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I'm Bob Lepine. You can find us online at FamilyLifeToday.com. Are you an introvert? What exactly does that mean, and why would God make some people introverts? We\u2019re going to explore that topic today with our guest, Holley Gerth. Stay with us.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. You think this is going to work? I mean, it\u2019s a national radio program with an introvert? [Laughter] I mean, do you think\u2014[Laughter]\n\n<strong>Anne: <\/strong>I think it\u2019s going to be <em>amazing<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Do you?\n\n<strong>Anne:<\/strong> Yes, and I think people are going to be <em>excited<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We are going to be talking about introversion, and what it is, and how it affects marriages and parenting and relationships. We\u2019ve got Holley Gerth joining us today. Holley, welcome.\n\n<strong>Holley:<\/strong> Thank you for having me.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Thank you for being here, because this is you; right?\n\n<strong>Holley:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You are an introvert.\n\n<strong>Holley:<\/strong> I am an introvert\u2014\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You know this is going out\u2014\n\n<strong>Holley<\/strong>: \u2014out in the wild.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014you know this is going out to hundreds of thousands of people.\n\n<strong>Holley:<\/strong> I\u2019m trying not to think about it. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> But thanks for bringing it up; right?\n\n<strong>Holley:<\/strong> Yes, thanks for that. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> But it\u2019s going to feel somewhat comfortable; it\u2019s only a couple of us in the studio.\n\n<strong>Holley:<\/strong> Yes, that\u2019s great. I love that, so I\u2019m just going to focus on all of you.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Holley is an author. She is a wife and a mom. She\u2019s a counselor; she has a Master of Science degree in Mental Health. She lives in northwest Arkansas with her husband, Mark. They have a 27-year-old daughter. She\u2019s written a book about introversion, <em>The Powerful Purpose of Introverts: Why the World Needs You to be You<\/em>.\n\nYou are an introvert. When did you realize you were an introvert?\n\n<strong>Holley:<\/strong> I actually first heard the word, \u201cintrovert<em>,<\/em>\u201d in college at a Cru<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> meeting. I remember exactly where I was.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014Cru: Campus Crusade for Christ<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>; yes.\n\n<strong>Holley:<\/strong> Yes, Campus Crusade. I was sitting cross-legged on this old grey carpet. They had a guest speaker talking about personality types. They said the word, \u201cintrovert.\u201d It was this huge \u201cAha\u201d moment for me because I realized: \u201cNot only is there a name for the way I engage with the world, a whole lot of other people engage with the world this way, too\u201d; because actually half the population is made up of introverts.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Why was that such a pivotal moment that you remember so clearly?\n\n<strong>Holley:<\/strong> We do live in a more extrovert-centric society. That\u2019s not been true throughout history. It\u2019s not even true everywhere in the world; but today, that\u2019s a little more dominant. Even though it\u2019s about 50-50, introverts can feel like, \u201cMaybe I need to be a little bit different than who I am.\u201d\n\nIt\u2019s really been a journey to say, \u201cNo; God made me an introvert on purpose for a purpose.\u201d I believe that introverts and extroverts are actually a complimentary pairing that God intentionally put in the world.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Okay; I need to define the term here, because\/is introversion the same as shyness?\n\n<strong>Holley:<\/strong> No; it\u2019s not.It actually has nothing to do with shyness, because shyness is fear-based. An extrovert can be shy, but introversion is actually a particular brain and nervous system wiring. It\u2019s all about how we process our external environment\/how that impacts us. That\u2019s actually where it comes from. There\u2019s a lot of [mis-information] about what it actually means.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You\u2019re saying this is biological as opposed to\u2014\n\n<strong>Holley:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014it\u2019s not how we\u2019re raised or what our social environment is that shapes this?\n\n<strong>Holley:<\/strong> No, it actually has very little to do with how much we like people. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014or how good we are with people.\n\n<strong>Holley:<\/strong> Yes, exactly.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So what is an introvert? What defines them?\n\n<strong>Holley: <\/strong>Yes; an introvert is someone who has preference for more minimally-stimulating environments; or it\u2019s someone who is at their best when they can fully focus\u2014so on one person, one project\u2014something they are passionate about. So I\u2019ll give you a quick rundown of the brain science\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> What is an introvert? What defines them?\n\n<strong>Holley:<\/strong> An introvert is someone who has a preference for more minimally-stimulating environments; or it\u2019s someone who\u2019s at their best when they can fully focus on one person, one project\/something they\u2019re passionate about. I\u2019ll give a quick rundown of the brain science behind that. Introverts and extroverts differ in three primary ways.\n\nFirst, the neurotransmitter, which is a brain chemical that makes us feel best. Extroverts feel best through one called dopamine that works kind of like caffeine: it revs us up\/prepares us for action. It\u2019s released in our systems when we have a lot coming at us from the outside\u2014so loud room full of people\u2014lots of dopamine going on there.\n\nIntroverts kind of have a level of dopamine that already feels good to us. It\u2019s like we\u2019ve had our morning cup of coffee. If we have a lot more coming at us, it feels like having an entire pot of coffee\u2014maybe exciting at first\u2014but eventually exhausting. We feel better through a different neurotransmitter called acetylcholine, which I say works more like herbal tea. It\u2019s released when we do things like turn inward, focus fully on one person\/a project we\u2019re passionate about\u2014those kind of activities instead. That\u2019s one difference.\n\nThen we have two divisions of our nervous system that work in similar ways. One revs us up; one is more about relaxing us. You can guess which goes with which.\n\nThen we even use different primary brain pathways for processing. An extrovert\u2019s primary pathway is shorter, faster, more focused on the present. That\u2019s why y\u2019all are usually good at small talk, because you can focus on the present\u2014do that quick back and forth\u2014that introverts can envy sometimes.\n\nIntroverts use a longer more complex brain pathway that takes into account the past, present and future; so we are often able to add context, and depth, and insight. It also means that we probably need a little bit longer to process; so if you see an introvert pause, that is what\u2019s going on. They\u2019re using that God-given longer pathway to process what\u2019s just been said. Then they\u2019re going to be ready to add something to the conversation.\n\nOne other difference that comes from the brain and nervous system stuff is extroverts and introverts experience <em>happiness<\/em> differently. Because of that dopamine, to extroverts, happiness feels like enthusiasm and excitement, because of the\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes; yes.\n\n<strong>Holley: <\/strong>Yes; right? [Laughter] Do I get some cheers?\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes!\n\n<strong>Holley: <\/strong>To introverts, happiness feels like calm and contentment. You can imagine, in a marriage, where a well-meaning extrovert is trying to get their introvert to be happy\u2014the introvert\u2019s actually already happy; but they don\u2019t look like it, externally, in the same way\u2014or vice versa\u2014where we sort of even assume.\n\nI say one exercise couples can do is say: \u201cWhat are your happiness synonyms? When I say, \u2018 happy,\u2019 tell me some other words that feel like that to you.\u201d It\u2019s interesting; because a lot of times, extroverts will say those words, \u201cexcitement,\u201d and introverts will say something like, \u201ccalm.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Let\u2019s do it with these guys; okay?\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I\u2019m thinking, as you\u2019re describing this, I\u2019m\u2014\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Bob\u2019s avoiding the question. [Laughter] Did you notice that?\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Here\u2019s how I processed what you just said. I\u2019m thinking, a year-plus ago, I had an invitation to go to Hawaii to speak. I\u2019m thinking\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes, yes.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cThis is crazy.\u201d I didn\u2019t have to pray about it; right?\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u201cWe\u2019re coming.\u201d\n\nThey said, \u201cWe\u2019d like to invite you and your wife to come, and we\u2019ll put you up for a couple of extra days.\u201d I went home and I said, \u201cGuess what I got an invitation for. We can go to Hawaii.\u201d MaryAnn was like, \u201cThe plane ride is so long.\u201d [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You thought she\u2019d be <em>so<\/em> excited about this.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I knew enough about her to know happiness for her is home. Happiness is quiet, a book, calm, order; so travel is disruptive. It\u2019s unusual; it\u2019s like, \u201cYes, I\u2019m out of my comfort zone.\u201d\n\nI\u2019m hearing you\u2014words that relate to happiness: \u201chome\u201d for MaryAnn; \u201ccalm\u201d for MaryAnn. For me, it\u2019s \u201cadventure\u201d and \u201cnew things\u201d and \u201cexcitement\u201d and \u201cexploration.\u201d We\u2019re in trouble\u2014wouldn\u2019t you say?\u2014based on what we\u2019ve got going on here?\n\n<strong>Holley:<\/strong> No; I think at our best, then we bring out the best in each other. Your wife probably needs some time to go have an adventure. Sometimes you have lots of adventures, and you need some time to catch your breath.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Holley:<\/strong> I think, when there\u2019s clear communication, then that intentional pairing works well that God has put in place. But if you don\u2019t have those conversations, it can be years of misunderstanding without even meaning to.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes, I think I represent\/I hope I represent some couples that are listening, in saying that we\u2019re laughing about it\u2014it is sort of fun to learn\u2014but there can be real tension in a marriage. I know I\u2019ve been <em>angry<\/em> at Ann. She\u2019s an extrovert, but she\u2019s <em>not<\/em> as extroverted as <em>me<\/em>. We\u2019ll come home\u2014and we\u2019ve been very busy and been around a lot of people\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Let\u2019s say we\u2019ve been gone, and this\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Look at her just interrupt me right there. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014in this one circumstance, we were gone <em>two weeks<\/em>. We haven\u2019t been home\u2014constantly with people, very extroverted\u2014I was exhausted. We got home. The first night we\u2019re home, I\u2019m thinking, \u201cOkay, I need to get the laundry done. I need to get the house back in order. I need to go get some groceries.\u201d\n\nAnd here\u2019s what Dave says, \u201cWhat do you want to <em>do<\/em> tonight?\u201d [Laughter] I\u2019m like, \u201cDo? It\u2019s the first night we\u2019re home; let\u2019s just be here!\u201d But he\u2019s like\/he was <em>bummed<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019m honestly thinking, \u201cI want to be with people that I haven\u2019t seen in two weeks\u2014our friends. When she\u2019s like, \u201cCan we just not see anybody for a couple of days?\u201d\u2014again, she\u2019s really extroverted\u2014but I was upset. I was like, \u201cAw, bummer. I\u2019m going to watch TV; I\u2019m going to sit here by myself.\u201d [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I felt like the biggest loser ever because I\u2019ve disappointed him.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> What would you say to a couple messed up like us?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Thanks for counselling us today. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Holley:<\/strong> Yes; I\u2019ll charge you later. [Laughter]\n\nI think, first, it\u2019s helpful to recognize none of us are 100 percent introvert or extrovert; we\u2019re all on a continuum. Obviously, you [Ann] would probably be a little closer to the introvert side; so even having that conversation. But I think, also, understanding the difference between isolation and solitude is important. Isolation is living disconnected from God, others, and our truest selves. When God said, \u201cIt\u2019s not good for man to be alone,\u201d that\u2019s the kind of language He was using. But it actually has <em>nothing<\/em> to do with physical space. Some of <em>my<\/em> most isolated moments have been in a crowd of people, where I didn\u2019t feel truly known.\n\nWe can think, \u201cI\u2019m not allowed to withdraw.\u201d That\u2019s especially hard for introverts, who <em>literally<\/em>, our nervous systems work like nets with small holes. When they get full, we have to have time to process; in that case, we need to choose solitude, which is time apart, chosen for a specific purpose: like restoration, like creative activity, like renewal after a busy season\u2014and that is actually modeled to us by Jesus. He often did that\u2014withdrew from the crowds. I think solitude is spiritual discipline that has been present throughout the history of church that we\u2019ve lost a little bit.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Holley:<\/strong> I actually think for all of us\/there\u2019s now all these leadership studies saying that solitude is essential. Maybe we don\u2019t need the same amount, but we all need it.\n\nAs a believer, for a long time, I felt shame for needing that; because I thought that the more people in my life equaled the more I loved Jesus and the more I loved people, so I <em>literally<\/em> forced myself to the brink of burnout. I was at a conference I had done\u2014it had been a year full of traveling\u2014I think it was my 20<sup>th<\/sup> trip. I did a keynote; and in Sunday morning worship, I could not stop crying. I felt like God said, \u201cIt\u2019s time to go home.\u201d I knew that meant: \u201cGet on the plane, go home and take a nap.\u201d But I also knew it meant, \u201c<em>Go home to who I created you to be<\/em>. I made you an introvert on purpose. You do not have to be someone you\u2019re not to fulfill My purpose for your life.\u201d\n\nThat was a big \u201cAha\u201d for me. I looked through all of Scripture. There\u2019s no mandate that has to do with quantity of relationship.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Hear that Dave? [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Holley:<\/strong> It\u2019s all about quality. We\u2019re literally told \u201cone another\u201d; it uses the word, \u201cone.\u201d I think some of us are called to ministries that involve <em>many<\/em>; that is a <em>gift<\/em>, and we are <em>geared for that<\/em> if that\u2019s what we\u2019re called to. But some of us are called to ministries where we pour deeply into a few people, and that\u2019s just as valid and just as valuable.\n\nFrom a brain science perspective\u2014one more thing real quick\u2014we actually have two other neurotransmitters, oxytocin and vasopressin, that regulate how much time with people we need and how much time alone we need. They operate like hunger and thirst. When we\u2019re paying attention to them, God has built into us, \u201cOkay, you need time with people now,\u201d or \u201cYou need time on your own now.\u201d\n\nI\u2019m a writer, who <em>needs<\/em> to spend hours alone most days of the week to get done what God has asked me to do; I\u2019m okay with that. I think that\u2019s really beautiful that God has built into us how much time we need with people\/how much time we need on our own. Just learning to understand that about each other can be powerful.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019m thinking, even in my marriage, I often haven\u2019t valued that in Ann. If she would come home from the conference, like you just talked about, and said, \u201cI need alone time,\u201d I\u2019d be like, \u201cWhy?! You and I need to go out,\u201d rather than going, \u201cWow!\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> How do we get to oneness\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014when our priorities, and our desires, and our oxytocin levels, and all of that are so different? When she\u2019d come home and say, \u201cI need alone time,\u201d and you\u2019re going, \u201cNo; I need you to be engaged with me doing this,\u201d\u2014now, we\u2019re at cross purposes; and the goal is oneness in marriage.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> We do it with our kids too!\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Great point.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cI want you to be more like this, son\u201d or :\u2026daughter,\u201d when we\u2019re not stepping back and going, \u201cNo; I want to know you.\u201d\n\n<strong>Holley:<\/strong> Yes; I think there\u2019s a <em>powerful<\/em> question that we can ask in any relationship that can be a game changer\u2014it\u2019s: \u201cHow can I love you well right now?\u201d\u2014because we <em>assume<\/em> that other people need to be loved the way that we do. You have the best of intentions when you\u2019re trying to get your wife to go out with you because you\u2019re assuming that she needs the same thing as you.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Holley:<\/strong> The intention is good; it\u2019s just that we don\u2019t understand. I think pausing and saying, \u201cHow can I love you well right now?\u201d; then listening to the answer and deciding together, \u201cWhat\u2019s <em>our <\/em>way?\u201d I heard someone say once that: \u201cIn conflict you start with an \u2018I\u2019 and an \u2018I\u2019 and at the end, if it\u2019s successful, you end up with a \u2018we.\u2019\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Holley:<\/strong> I think that\u2019s two becoming one. There\u2019s the tendency to say: \u201cThe introvert way is right,\u201d or \u201cThe extrovert way is right.\u201d I think it\u2019s about each couple, or each parent\/child, or coworkers, or whoever it is, saying, \u201cWhat\u2019s <em>our<\/em> way? There\u2019s two different ways here; how can we make one way that\u2019s <em>our<\/em> way?\u201d\n\nI think that question can be a simple place to start and to say, \u201cNo shame about the answer\/no judgment about the answer. I\u2019m just going to listen to what this person has to say.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I remember when our oldest son\u2014CJ, who\u2019s an introvert; he\u2019s son number one, and we didn\u2019t know what we were doing\u2014we probably didn\u2019t know what we were doing with son number three either\u2014[Laughter]\u2014but I remember what one of our counsellors told us about him when he comes home from school.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> As I\u2019m listening to this, I\u2019m thinking about him; because, when he was born, you could tell he\u2019s very different from us. He was more quiet; everybody said, \u201cOh, he\u2019s so shy.\u201d It would take him longer to process what he was thinking by his speech, which seemed delayed to me.\n\nHere, I\u2019m thinking, \u201cOh, he\u2019s messed up,\u201d\u2014that\u2019s what I thought\u2014so I would get bigger and louder, and I would try to make him laugh even more. I would take his crib, when he was two, and I would roll it around his room, trying to get him to laugh; and he did! But I\u2019m thinking, \u201cWhy does it take so much to get him to respond and to be laughing hilariously?\u201d Here, the whole time I had no idea; and I was trying to get him to be like <em>me<\/em>, extroverted; because I thought that\u2019s <em>right<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Holley:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> By the time he\u2019s a teenager, now he comes home from school; and instead of talking about his whole day\u2014and I\u2019m trying to ask him a million questions: \u201cHow did the day go?\u201d \u201cWhat was happening?\u201d \u201cWhat are you feeling?\u201d\u2014he would go up into his room and be alone. I\u2019m thinking, \u201cHe\u2019s plotting something devious.\u201d [Laughter] I was worried and I\u2019d say to Dave, \u201cWhat is he doing up there?\u201d\n\nWe ended up seeing a counsellor friend; and he said, \u201cOh, he\u2019s an introvert,\u201d which we had never even heard of the phrase before in this type of dialog; because he was explaining and defining an introvert, just as you did, Holley, which I never heard of that. When he said, \u201cOh, he\u2019s just recharging his battery,\u201d we were like, \u201cWhat?!\u201d It gave us new eyes to see him, appreciate him, and call out the greatness in him.\n\n<strong>Holley:<\/strong> Yes, yes.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> It was life changing\u2014probably way more for him than for us\u2014because I\u2019m sure we were <em>exhausting<\/em> to him.\n\n<strong>Holley:<\/strong> Yes; and I think another thing, too, for this and marriage is the five love languages. Most of us have learned those; right? It matters, not just what language that person speaks, but what <em>volume<\/em> they need it spoken in.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s good; I haven\u2019t heard <em>that<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Holley:<\/strong> For a words-of-affirmation introvert, a personal note is probably great\u2014like pausing and saying, \u201cOkay, this person is different than I am.\u201d Even with something like the love languages, this makes a difference.\n\nI love that you made that effort to go to counselling and to say, \u201cTell us about our son\u201d; and when you heard that he was different, you received that and were open to it.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You\u2019re a good counselor. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> When we sort of came upon that \u201cAha\u201d moment, it brought life out of him, too; because we were celebrating, \u201cHey, CJ, see you in a half hour\u201d; because he would go upstairs\u2014and he\u2019s not building a bomb or anything that we thought\u2014he\u2019d come down, and there was life.\n\nHe was in a small group that we were leading a couple of years ago with pre-marrieds; he [was] already married. He wouldn\u2019t say a lot; but I knew anytime I wanted to say, \u201cCJ, what are you thinking right now?\u201d it would be deep; because he\u2019s <em>thinking<\/em>. I would have not honored that until I understood he\u2019s wired\u2014like you said\u2014his brain is different. Every time\u2014usually toward the end of the meeting, I\u2019d say, \u201cHey, CJ, what are you thinking right now?\u201d\u2014he would have this angle\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014profound.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014that nobody in the room would even\u2014you\u2019re like, \u201cOh, my goodness, what a gem in there.\u201d It would be so easy to miss that in your child or in your spouse if you don\u2019t step back and go, \u201cI want to appreciate what God made them to be.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> It made a big difference for him, too; because we started talking about that a lot more as a teenager. When you grow up in the church world, and you\u2019re going on these retreats with hundreds of kids, I asked him, \u201cHow does that feel for you? He said, \u201cIt feels good at first and then I feel so overwhelmed. I don\u2019t even know what to do.\u201d\n\nWe started coaching him and helping him being able to have a way of escape. He said, \u201cI would go back to the cabin, put my headphones on, recharge; be alone.\u201d He felt guilty about it, because sometimes we can make people feel guilty about pulling away. He said, \u201cIt just helped me <em>love<\/em> these retreats in a way I never had before.\u201d\n\n<strong>Holley<\/strong>: Yes; I\u2019ve heard something similar from <em>so many<\/em> introverts that, especially evangelical Christian culture today, is very extroverted. I walked into a cathedral in Europe. I noticed everyone immediately lowered their voices, slowed their pace, became more reflective. I was like, \u201cEveryone just started acting like introverts.\u201d\n\nFor so many years, the church was a refuge from the noise and the busyness of the culture around us. I <em>love<\/em> church today; this is not a criticism. It\u2019s just that introverts can feel like, \u201cI must be doing faith wrong,\u201d\u2014I\u2019ve had so many emails like that\u2014I\u2019ve had that experience personally. Even since the book has come out, that has been the chapter I got the most feedback on\u2014is people saying, \u201cThank you for giving me permission to feel uncomfortable at church sometimes.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Wow.\n\n<strong>Holley:<\/strong> I think it <em>matters<\/em> that we gather as believers; of course, it does; but it\u2019s <em>okay<\/em> if God has designed us to feel His presence more when we have less external distraction. I feel closest to God when I can turn inward; if there\u2019s a lot of music, and noise, and lights, and people around me, it\u2019s just harder to do that. But that has nothing to do with the level of my faith.\n\nAgain, it just goes back to how God designed me. He\u2019s not saying, \u201cHolley, you\u2019re in trouble.\u201d He\u2019s saying, \u201cThat\u2019s my girl.\u201d Just like He\u2019s looking at the extrovert in the middle of that mission trip, with all these people killing it, and saying, \u201cThat\u2019s my guy.\u201d\n\nI think it\u2019s just everyone having permission to be who God made them.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I like your question, \u201cHow can I love you well, and what does that look like?\u201d\n\n<strong>Holley:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I like that.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes, I really like what you\u2019ve done in the book with the exercises you\u2019ve got\/the questions that you pose that help us figure out who we are, whether we are introverts or extroverts. In fact, on your website, you\u2019ve got a ten-question quiz that people can take to help them figure out where they are on the introvert\/extrovert scale. Go to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com; there\u2019s a link to Holley\u2019s website there. There\u2019s also information about her book, <em>The Powerful Purpose of Introverts<\/em>. Again, the website is FamilyLifeToday.com.\n\nLet me just say\u2014if one of your kids is an introvert, or if you\u2019re married to an introvert\u2014get this book and read it to better understand your spouse or your child. Again, the book is called <em>The Powerful Purpose of Introverts. <\/em>Go to FamilyLifeToday.com to order, or call 1-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY,\u201d to order your copy of Holley\u2019s book.\n\nSpeaking of books, earlier this week, we talked with Chap Bettis about our responsibility as disciple-making parents. Chap\u2019s book, which is called <em>The Disciple-Making Parent<\/em>, is available as a free audio book when you go to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com. The information is available there on how you can get a free copy of the audiobook. This book maps out for us a strategy for how we disciple our own children. The most important responsibility we have, as parents, is guiding children on their spiritual journey. To get a free copy of the book, <em>The Disciple-Making Parent<\/em>\/the audiobook, go to FamilyLifeToday.com. The information\u2019s available there on how you can download your copy. We hope you enjoy that.\n\nWe hope you can join us, again, tomorrow when we\u2019re going to talk about introverts being married to extroverts, and how that works or doesn\u2019t work, and \u201cWhat do you do, if you\u2019re dating, and you\u2019re attracted to somebody who\u2019s different than you?\u201d Holley Gerth will join us, again, tomorrow to talk about that. We hope you can join us as well.\n\nI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\n<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> of Little Rock, Arkansas;\n\na Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\nWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\nCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2021 FamilyLife. 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you, or someone you love, an introvert? Holley Gerth talks about the misconceptions and surprising truth of what it really means to be an introvert.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2021-01-13.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You may have found yourself thinking, at some point in your life, the way Holley Gerth used to think, that even though she was by nature an introvert, she had to force herself to become an extrovert if she really loved Jesus.\n\n<strong>Holley:<\/strong> I thought that the more people in my life equaled the more I loved Jesus and the more I loved people, so I literally forced myself to the brink of burnout.\n\nI was at a conference. I had done\u2014it had been a year full of traveling\u2014I think it was my 20<sup>th<\/sup> trip. I did a keynote; and in Sunday morning worship, I could not stop crying. I felt like God said, \u201cIt\u2019s time to go home.\u201d I knew that meant, \u201cGet on the plane, go home and take a nap.\u201d But I also knew it meant: \u201c<em>Go home to who I created you to be<\/em>. I made you an introvert on purpose. You do not have to be someone you are not to fulfill My purpose for your life.\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Wednesday, January 13<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I'm Bob Lepine. You can find us online at FamilyLifeToday.com. Are you an introvert? What exactly does that mean, and why would God make some people introverts? We\u2019re going to explore that topic today with our guest, Holley Gerth. Stay with us.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. You think this is going to work? I mean, it\u2019s a national radio program with an introvert? [Laughter] I mean, do you think\u2014[Laughter]\n\n<strong>Anne: <\/strong>I think it\u2019s going to be <em>amazing<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Do you?\n\n<strong>Anne:<\/strong> Yes, and I think people are going to be <em>excited<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We are going to be talking about introversion, and what it is, and how it affects marriages and parenting and relationships. We\u2019ve got Holley Gerth joining us today. Holley, welcome.\n\n<strong>Holley:<\/strong> Thank you for having me.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Thank you for being here, because this is you; right?\n\n<strong>Holley:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You are an introvert.\n\n<strong>Holley:<\/strong> I am an introvert\u2014\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You know this is going out\u2014\n\n<strong>Holley<\/strong>: \u2014out in the wild.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014you know this is going out to hundreds of thousands of people.\n\n<strong>Holley:<\/strong> I\u2019m trying not to think about it. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> But thanks for bringing it up; right?\n\n<strong>Holley:<\/strong> Yes, thanks for that. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> But it\u2019s going to feel somewhat comfortable; it\u2019s only a couple of us in the studio.\n\n<strong>Holley:<\/strong> Yes, that\u2019s great. I love that, so I\u2019m just going to focus on all of you.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Holley is an author. She is a wife and a mom. She\u2019s a counselor; she has a Master of Science degree in Mental Health. She lives in northwest Arkansas with her husband, Mark. They have a 27-year-old daughter. She\u2019s written a book about introversion, <em>The Powerful Purpose of Introverts: Why the World Needs You to be You<\/em>.\n\nYou are an introvert. When did you realize you were an introvert?\n\n<strong>Holley:<\/strong> I actually first heard the word, \u201cintrovert<em>,<\/em>\u201d in college at a Cru<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> meeting. I remember exactly where I was.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014Cru: Campus Crusade for Christ<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>; yes.\n\n<strong>Holley:<\/strong> Yes, Campus Crusade. I was sitting cross-legged on this old grey carpet. They had a guest speaker talking about personality types. They said the word, \u201cintrovert.\u201d It was this huge \u201cAha\u201d moment for me because I realized: \u201cNot only is there a name for the way I engage with the world, a whole lot of other people engage with the world this way, too\u201d; because actually half the population is made up of introverts.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Why was that such a pivotal moment that you remember so clearly?\n\n<strong>Holley:<\/strong> We do live in a more extrovert-centric society. That\u2019s not been true throughout history. It\u2019s not even true everywhere in the world; but today, that\u2019s a little more dominant. Even though it\u2019s about 50-50, introverts can feel like, \u201cMaybe I need to be a little bit different than who I am.\u201d\n\nIt\u2019s really been a journey to say, \u201cNo; God made me an introvert on purpose for a purpose.\u201d I believe that introverts and extroverts are actually a complimentary pairing that God intentionally put in the world.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Okay; I need to define the term here, because\/is introversion the same as shyness?\n\n<strong>Holley:<\/strong> No; it\u2019s not.It actually has nothing to do with shyness, because shyness is fear-based. An extrovert can be shy, but introversion is actually a particular brain and nervous system wiring. It\u2019s all about how we process our external environment\/how that impacts us. That\u2019s actually where it comes from. There\u2019s a lot of [mis-information] about what it actually means.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You\u2019re saying this is biological as opposed to\u2014\n\n<strong>Holley:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014it\u2019s not how we\u2019re raised or what our social environment is that shapes this?\n\n<strong>Holley:<\/strong> No, it actually has very little to do with how much we like people. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014or how good we are with people.\n\n<strong>Holley:<\/strong> Yes, exactly.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So what is an introvert? What defines them?\n\n<strong>Holley: <\/strong>Yes; an introvert is someone who has preference for more minimally-stimulating environments; or it\u2019s someone who is at their best when they can fully focus\u2014so on one person, one project\u2014something they are passionate about. So I\u2019ll give you a quick rundown of the brain science\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> What is an introvert? What defines them?\n\n<strong>Holley:<\/strong> An introvert is someone who has a preference for more minimally-stimulating environments; or it\u2019s someone who\u2019s at their best when they can fully focus on one person, one project\/something they\u2019re passionate about. I\u2019ll give a quick rundown of the brain science behind that. Introverts and extroverts differ in three primary ways.\n\nFirst, the neurotransmitter, which is a brain chemical that makes us feel best. Extroverts feel best through one called dopamine that works kind of like caffeine: it revs us up\/prepares us for action. It\u2019s released in our systems when we have a lot coming at us from the outside\u2014so loud room full of people\u2014lots of dopamine going on there.\n\nIntroverts kind of have a level of dopamine that already feels good to us. It\u2019s like we\u2019ve had our morning cup of coffee. If we have a lot more coming at us, it feels like having an entire pot of coffee\u2014maybe exciting at first\u2014but eventually exhausting. We feel better through a different neurotransmitter called acetylcholine, which I say works more like herbal tea. It\u2019s released when we do things like turn inward, focus fully on one person\/a project we\u2019re passionate about\u2014those kind of activities instead. That\u2019s one difference.\n\nThen we have two divisions of our nervous system that work in similar ways. One revs us up; one is more about relaxing us. You can guess which goes with which.\n\nThen we even use different primary brain pathways for processing. An extrovert\u2019s primary pathway is shorter, faster, more focused on the present. That\u2019s why y\u2019all are usually good at small talk, because you can focus on the present\u2014do that quick back and forth\u2014that introverts can envy sometimes.\n\nIntroverts use a longer more complex brain pathway that takes into account the past, present and future; so we are often able to add context, and depth, and insight. It also means that we probably need a little bit longer to process; so if you see an introvert pause, that is what\u2019s going on. They\u2019re using that God-given longer pathway to process what\u2019s just been said. Then they\u2019re going to be ready to add something to the conversation.\n\nOne other difference that comes from the brain and nervous system stuff is extroverts and introverts experience <em>happiness<\/em> differently. Because of that dopamine, to extroverts, happiness feels like enthusiasm and excitement, because of the\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes; yes.\n\n<strong>Holley: <\/strong>Yes; right? [Laughter] Do I get some cheers?\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes!\n\n<strong>Holley: <\/strong>To introverts, happiness feels like calm and contentment. You can imagine, in a marriage, where a well-meaning extrovert is trying to get their introvert to be happy\u2014the introvert\u2019s actually already happy; but they don\u2019t look like it, externally, in the same way\u2014or vice versa\u2014where we sort of even assume.\n\nI say one exercise couples can do is say: \u201cWhat are your happiness synonyms? When I say, \u2018 happy,\u2019 tell me some other words that feel like that to you.\u201d It\u2019s interesting; because a lot of times, extroverts will say those words, \u201cexcitement,\u201d and introverts will say something like, \u201ccalm.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Let\u2019s do it with these guys; okay?\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I\u2019m thinking, as you\u2019re describing this, I\u2019m\u2014\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Bob\u2019s avoiding the question. [Laughter] Did you notice that?\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Here\u2019s how I processed what you just said. I\u2019m thinking, a year-plus ago, I had an invitation to go to Hawaii to speak. I\u2019m thinking\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes, yes.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cThis is crazy.\u201d I didn\u2019t have to pray about it; right?\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u201cWe\u2019re coming.\u201d\n\nThey said, \u201cWe\u2019d like to invite you and your wife to come, and we\u2019ll put you up for a couple of extra days.\u201d I went home and I said, \u201cGuess what I got an invitation for. We can go to Hawaii.\u201d MaryAnn was like, \u201cThe plane ride is so long.\u201d [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You thought she\u2019d be <em>so<\/em> excited about this.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I knew enough about her to know happiness for her is home. Happiness is quiet, a book, calm, order; so travel is disruptive. It\u2019s unusual; it\u2019s like, \u201cYes, I\u2019m out of my comfort zone.\u201d\n\nI\u2019m hearing you\u2014words that relate to happiness: \u201chome\u201d for MaryAnn; \u201ccalm\u201d for MaryAnn. For me, it\u2019s \u201cadventure\u201d and \u201cnew things\u201d and \u201cexcitement\u201d and \u201cexploration.\u201d We\u2019re in trouble\u2014wouldn\u2019t you say?\u2014based on what we\u2019ve got going on here?\n\n<strong>Holley:<\/strong> No; I think at our best, then we bring out the best in each other. Your wife probably needs some time to go have an adventure. Sometimes you have lots of adventures, and you need some time to catch your breath.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Holley:<\/strong> I think, when there\u2019s clear communication, then that intentional pairing works well that God has put in place. But if you don\u2019t have those conversations, it can be years of misunderstanding without even meaning to.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes, I think I represent\/I hope I represent some couples that are listening, in saying that we\u2019re laughing about it\u2014it is sort of fun to learn\u2014but there can be real tension in a marriage. I know I\u2019ve been <em>angry<\/em> at Ann. She\u2019s an extrovert, but she\u2019s <em>not<\/em> as extroverted as <em>me<\/em>. We\u2019ll come home\u2014and we\u2019ve been very busy and been around a lot of people\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Let\u2019s say we\u2019ve been gone, and this\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Look at her just interrupt me right there. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014in this one circumstance, we were gone <em>two weeks<\/em>. We haven\u2019t been home\u2014constantly with people, very extroverted\u2014I was exhausted. We got home. The first night we\u2019re home, I\u2019m thinking, \u201cOkay, I need to get the laundry done. I need to get the house back in order. I need to go get some groceries.\u201d\n\nAnd here\u2019s what Dave says, \u201cWhat do you want to <em>do<\/em> tonight?\u201d [Laughter] I\u2019m like, \u201cDo? It\u2019s the first night we\u2019re home; let\u2019s just be here!\u201d But he\u2019s like\/he was <em>bummed<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019m honestly thinking, \u201cI want to be with people that I haven\u2019t seen in two weeks\u2014our friends. When she\u2019s like, \u201cCan we just not see anybody for a couple of days?\u201d\u2014again, she\u2019s really extroverted\u2014but I was upset. I was like, \u201cAw, bummer. I\u2019m going to watch TV; I\u2019m going to sit here by myself.\u201d [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I felt like the biggest loser ever because I\u2019ve disappointed him.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> What would you say to a couple messed up like us?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Thanks for counselling us today. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Holley:<\/strong> Yes; I\u2019ll charge you later. [Laughter]\n\nI think, first, it\u2019s helpful to recognize none of us are 100 percent introvert or extrovert; we\u2019re all on a continuum. Obviously, you [Ann] would probably be a little closer to the introvert side; so even having that conversation. But I think, also, understanding the difference between isolation and solitude is important. Isolation is living disconnected from God, others, and our truest selves. When God said, \u201cIt\u2019s not good for man to be alone,\u201d that\u2019s the kind of language He was using. But it actually has <em>nothing<\/em> to do with physical space. Some of <em>my<\/em> most isolated moments have been in a crowd of people, where I didn\u2019t feel truly known.\n\nWe can think, \u201cI\u2019m not allowed to withdraw.\u201d That\u2019s especially hard for introverts, who <em>literally<\/em>, our nervous systems work like nets with small holes. When they get full, we have to have time to process; in that case, we need to choose solitude, which is time apart, chosen for a specific purpose: like restoration, like creative activity, like renewal after a busy season\u2014and that is actually modeled to us by Jesus. He often did that\u2014withdrew from the crowds. I think solitude is spiritual discipline that has been present throughout the history of church that we\u2019ve lost a little bit.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Holley:<\/strong> I actually think for all of us\/there\u2019s now all these leadership studies saying that solitude is essential. Maybe we don\u2019t need the same amount, but we all need it.\n\nAs a believer, for a long time, I felt shame for needing that; because I thought that the more people in my life equaled the more I loved Jesus and the more I loved people, so I <em>literally<\/em> forced myself to the brink of burnout. I was at a conference I had done\u2014it had been a year full of traveling\u2014I think it was my 20<sup>th<\/sup> trip. I did a keynote; and in Sunday morning worship, I could not stop crying. I felt like God said, \u201cIt\u2019s time to go home.\u201d I knew that meant: \u201cGet on the plane, go home and take a nap.\u201d But I also knew it meant, \u201c<em>Go home to who I created you to be<\/em>. I made you an introvert on purpose. You do not have to be someone you\u2019re not to fulfill My purpose for your life.\u201d\n\nThat was a big \u201cAha\u201d for me. I looked through all of Scripture. There\u2019s no mandate that has to do with quantity of relationship.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Hear that Dave? [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Holley:<\/strong> It\u2019s all about quality. We\u2019re literally told \u201cone another\u201d; it uses the word, \u201cone.\u201d I think some of us are called to ministries that involve <em>many<\/em>; that is a <em>gift<\/em>, and we are <em>geared for that<\/em> if that\u2019s what we\u2019re called to. But some of us are called to ministries where we pour deeply into a few people, and that\u2019s just as valid and just as valuable.\n\nFrom a brain science perspective\u2014one more thing real quick\u2014we actually have two other neurotransmitters, oxytocin and vasopressin, that regulate how much time with people we need and how much time alone we need. They operate like hunger and thirst. When we\u2019re paying attention to them, God has built into us, \u201cOkay, you need time with people now,\u201d or \u201cYou need time on your own now.\u201d\n\nI\u2019m a writer, who <em>needs<\/em> to spend hours alone most days of the week to get done what God has asked me to do; I\u2019m okay with that. I think that\u2019s really beautiful that God has built into us how much time we need with people\/how much time we need on our own. Just learning to understand that about each other can be powerful.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019m thinking, even in my marriage, I often haven\u2019t valued that in Ann. If she would come home from the conference, like you just talked about, and said, \u201cI need alone time,\u201d I\u2019d be like, \u201cWhy?! You and I need to go out,\u201d rather than going, \u201cWow!\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> How do we get to oneness\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014when our priorities, and our desires, and our oxytocin levels, and all of that are so different? When she\u2019d come home and say, \u201cI need alone time,\u201d and you\u2019re going, \u201cNo; I need you to be engaged with me doing this,\u201d\u2014now, we\u2019re at cross purposes; and the goal is oneness in marriage.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> We do it with our kids too!\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Great point.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cI want you to be more like this, son\u201d or :\u2026daughter,\u201d when we\u2019re not stepping back and going, \u201cNo; I want to know you.\u201d\n\n<strong>Holley:<\/strong> Yes; I think there\u2019s a <em>powerful<\/em> question that we can ask in any relationship that can be a game changer\u2014it\u2019s: \u201cHow can I love you well right now?\u201d\u2014because we <em>assume<\/em> that other people need to be loved the way that we do. You have the best of intentions when you\u2019re trying to get your wife to go out with you because you\u2019re assuming that she needs the same thing as you.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Holley:<\/strong> The intention is good; it\u2019s just that we don\u2019t understand. I think pausing and saying, \u201cHow can I love you well right now?\u201d; then listening to the answer and deciding together, \u201cWhat\u2019s <em>our <\/em>way?\u201d I heard someone say once that: \u201cIn conflict you start with an \u2018I\u2019 and an \u2018I\u2019 and at the end, if it\u2019s successful, you end up with a \u2018we.\u2019\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Holley:<\/strong> I think that\u2019s two becoming one. There\u2019s the tendency to say: \u201cThe introvert way is right,\u201d or \u201cThe extrovert way is right.\u201d I think it\u2019s about each couple, or each parent\/child, or coworkers, or whoever it is, saying, \u201cWhat\u2019s <em>our<\/em> way? There\u2019s two different ways here; how can we make one way that\u2019s <em>our<\/em> way?\u201d\n\nI think that question can be a simple place to start and to say, \u201cNo shame about the answer\/no judgment about the answer. I\u2019m just going to listen to what this person has to say.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I remember when our oldest son\u2014CJ, who\u2019s an introvert; he\u2019s son number one, and we didn\u2019t know what we were doing\u2014we probably didn\u2019t know what we were doing with son number three either\u2014[Laughter]\u2014but I remember what one of our counsellors told us about him when he comes home from school.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> As I\u2019m listening to this, I\u2019m thinking about him; because, when he was born, you could tell he\u2019s very different from us. He was more quiet; everybody said, \u201cOh, he\u2019s so shy.\u201d It would take him longer to process what he was thinking by his speech, which seemed delayed to me.\n\nHere, I\u2019m thinking, \u201cOh, he\u2019s messed up,\u201d\u2014that\u2019s what I thought\u2014so I would get bigger and louder, and I would try to make him laugh even more. I would take his crib, when he was two, and I would roll it around his room, trying to get him to laugh; and he did! But I\u2019m thinking, \u201cWhy does it take so much to get him to respond and to be laughing hilariously?\u201d Here, the whole time I had no idea; and I was trying to get him to be like <em>me<\/em>, extroverted; because I thought that\u2019s <em>right<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Holley:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> By the time he\u2019s a teenager, now he comes home from school; and instead of talking about his whole day\u2014and I\u2019m trying to ask him a million questions: \u201cHow did the day go?\u201d \u201cWhat was happening?\u201d \u201cWhat are you feeling?\u201d\u2014he would go up into his room and be alone. I\u2019m thinking, \u201cHe\u2019s plotting something devious.\u201d [Laughter] I was worried and I\u2019d say to Dave, \u201cWhat is he doing up there?\u201d\n\nWe ended up seeing a counsellor friend; and he said, \u201cOh, he\u2019s an introvert,\u201d which we had never even heard of the phrase before in this type of dialog; because he was explaining and defining an introvert, just as you did, Holley, which I never heard of that. When he said, \u201cOh, he\u2019s just recharging his battery,\u201d we were like, \u201cWhat?!\u201d It gave us new eyes to see him, appreciate him, and call out the greatness in him.\n\n<strong>Holley:<\/strong> Yes, yes.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> It was life changing\u2014probably way more for him than for us\u2014because I\u2019m sure we were <em>exhausting<\/em> to him.\n\n<strong>Holley:<\/strong> Yes; and I think another thing, too, for this and marriage is the five love languages. Most of us have learned those; right? It matters, not just what language that person speaks, but what <em>volume<\/em> they need it spoken in.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s good; I haven\u2019t heard <em>that<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Holley:<\/strong> For a words-of-affirmation introvert, a personal note is probably great\u2014like pausing and saying, \u201cOkay, this person is different than I am.\u201d Even with something like the love languages, this makes a difference.\n\nI love that you made that effort to go to counselling and to say, \u201cTell us about our son\u201d; and when you heard that he was different, you received that and were open to it.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You\u2019re a good counselor. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> When we sort of came upon that \u201cAha\u201d moment, it brought life out of him, too; because we were celebrating, \u201cHey, CJ, see you in a half hour\u201d; because he would go upstairs\u2014and he\u2019s not building a bomb or anything that we thought\u2014he\u2019d come down, and there was life.\n\nHe was in a small group that we were leading a couple of years ago with pre-marrieds; he [was] already married. He wouldn\u2019t say a lot; but I knew anytime I wanted to say, \u201cCJ, what are you thinking right now?\u201d it would be deep; because he\u2019s <em>thinking<\/em>. I would have not honored that until I understood he\u2019s wired\u2014like you said\u2014his brain is different. Every time\u2014usually toward the end of the meeting, I\u2019d say, \u201cHey, CJ, what are you thinking right now?\u201d\u2014he would have this angle\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014profound.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014that nobody in the room would even\u2014you\u2019re like, \u201cOh, my goodness, what a gem in there.\u201d It would be so easy to miss that in your child or in your spouse if you don\u2019t step back and go, \u201cI want to appreciate what God made them to be.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> It made a big difference for him, too; because we started talking about that a lot more as a teenager. When you grow up in the church world, and you\u2019re going on these retreats with hundreds of kids, I asked him, \u201cHow does that feel for you? He said, \u201cIt feels good at first and then I feel so overwhelmed. I don\u2019t even know what to do.\u201d\n\nWe started coaching him and helping him being able to have a way of escape. He said, \u201cI would go back to the cabin, put my headphones on, recharge; be alone.\u201d He felt guilty about it, because sometimes we can make people feel guilty about pulling away. He said, \u201cIt just helped me <em>love<\/em> these retreats in a way I never had before.\u201d\n\n<strong>Holley<\/strong>: Yes; I\u2019ve heard something similar from <em>so many<\/em> introverts that, especially evangelical Christian culture today, is very extroverted. I walked into a cathedral in Europe. I noticed everyone immediately lowered their voices, slowed their pace, became more reflective. I was like, \u201cEveryone just started acting like introverts.\u201d\n\nFor so many years, the church was a refuge from the noise and the busyness of the culture around us. I <em>love<\/em> church today; this is not a criticism. It\u2019s just that introverts can feel like, \u201cI must be doing faith wrong,\u201d\u2014I\u2019ve had so many emails like that\u2014I\u2019ve had that experience personally. Even since the book has come out, that has been the chapter I got the most feedback on\u2014is people saying, \u201cThank you for giving me permission to feel uncomfortable at church sometimes.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Wow.\n\n<strong>Holley:<\/strong> I think it <em>matters<\/em> that we gather as believers; of course, it does; but it\u2019s <em>okay<\/em> if God has designed us to feel His presence more when we have less external distraction. I feel closest to God when I can turn inward; if there\u2019s a lot of music, and noise, and lights, and people around me, it\u2019s just harder to do that. But that has nothing to do with the level of my faith.\n\nAgain, it just goes back to how God designed me. He\u2019s not saying, \u201cHolley, you\u2019re in trouble.\u201d He\u2019s saying, \u201cThat\u2019s my girl.\u201d Just like He\u2019s looking at the extrovert in the middle of that mission trip, with all these people killing it, and saying, \u201cThat\u2019s my guy.\u201d\n\nI think it\u2019s just everyone having permission to be who God made them.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I like your question, \u201cHow can I love you well, and what does that look like?\u201d\n\n<strong>Holley:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I like that.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes, I really like what you\u2019ve done in the book with the exercises you\u2019ve got\/the questions that you pose that help us figure out who we are, whether we are introverts or extroverts. In fact, on your website, you\u2019ve got a ten-question quiz that people can take to help them figure out where they are on the introvert\/extrovert scale. Go to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com; there\u2019s a link to Holley\u2019s website there. There\u2019s also information about her book, <em>The Powerful Purpose of Introverts<\/em>. Again, the website is FamilyLifeToday.com.\n\nLet me just say\u2014if one of your kids is an introvert, or if you\u2019re married to an introvert\u2014get this book and read it to better understand your spouse or your child. Again, the book is called <em>The Powerful Purpose of Introverts. <\/em>Go to FamilyLifeToday.com to order, or call 1-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY,\u201d to order your copy of Holley\u2019s book.\n\nSpeaking of books, earlier this week, we talked with Chap Bettis about our responsibility as disciple-making parents. Chap\u2019s book, which is called <em>The Disciple-Making Parent<\/em>, is available as a free audio book when you go to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com. The information is available there on how you can get a free copy of the audiobook. This book maps out for us a strategy for how we disciple our own children. The most important responsibility we have, as parents, is guiding children on their spiritual journey. To get a free copy of the book, <em>The Disciple-Making Parent<\/em>\/the audiobook, go to FamilyLifeToday.com. The information\u2019s available there on how you can download your copy. We hope you enjoy that.\n\nWe hope you can join us, again, tomorrow when we\u2019re going to talk about introverts being married to extroverts, and how that works or doesn\u2019t work, and \u201cWhat do you do, if you\u2019re dating, and you\u2019re attracted to somebody who\u2019s different than you?\u201d Holley Gerth will join us, again, tomorrow to talk about that. We hope you can join us as well.\n\nI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\n<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> of Little Rock, Arkansas;\n\na Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\nWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\nCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2021 FamilyLife. 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