{"id":306673,"date":"2021-01-11T07:00:05","date_gmt":"2021-01-11T12:00:05","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/the-great-commission-within-our-homes\/"},"modified":"2021-01-11T07:00:05","modified_gmt":"2021-01-11T12:00:05","slug":"the-great-commission-within-our-homes","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/the-great-commission-within-our-homes\/","title":{"rendered":"The Great Commission Within Our Homes"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>As we make disciples and reach across the oceans, are we also reaching across the dinner table? On FamilyLife Today, join hosts Dave and Ann Wilson as they talk with Chap Bettis (BETT-iss), author of the book &#8220;The Disciple-Making Parent,&#8221; on fulfilling the Great Commission through our own children.<br \/>\nShow Notes and Resources<\/p>\n<p> \tFind out more from Chap Bettis&#8217;s book The Disciple-Making Parent. \u00a0http:\/\/thedisciplemakingparent.com<br \/>\n \tDownload FamilyLife&#8217;s new app! https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/app\/<br \/>\n \tFind resources from this podcast at https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/Products.aspx?categoryid=130.<br \/>\n \tCheck out all that&#8217;s available on the FamilyLife Podcast Network.\u00a0 https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/familylife-podcast-network\/<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>As we make disciples and reach across the oceans, are we also reaching across the dinner table? Chap Bettis talks about fulfilling the Great Commission through our own children.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2021-01-11.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:26:49","filesize":"24.56M","filesize_raw":"25754494","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2834,2806],"tags":[2209],"podcast_series":[8420],"cwp_profile":[9685],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-306673","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-praying-for-your-children","category-spiritual-development","tag-parenting","podcast_series-the-disciple-making-parent","cwp_profile-chap-bettis","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/306673\/the-great-commission-within-our-homes","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/306673\/the-great-commission-within-our-homes","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"LUCnvFSFrb\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/the-great-commission-within-our-homes\/\">The Great Commission Within Our Homes<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/the-great-commission-within-our-homes\/embed\/#?secret=LUCnvFSFrb\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;The Great Commission Within Our Homes&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"LUCnvFSFrb\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2021-01-11.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2021-01-11.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Chap Bettis\u2019 spiritual journey is a journey that he has learned, over the years, is not atypical.\n\n<strong>Chap:<\/strong> For me, I would say I came to faith as a young child; but I became <em>convinced<\/em> in my college years. When I do seminars, I\u2019ll ask people to \u201cRaise your hand if you professed Christ at a young age; you grew up in a Christian home\u201d; then, \u201cNow, keep your hands up if you\u2019d say, \u2018I had a later time when my faith became my own.\u2019\u201d Ninety-eight percent of the hands stay up.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Monday, January 11<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I'm Bob Lepine. You can find us online at FamilyLifeToday.com. How can we, as parents, help our children on their journey as they move from a commitment to Christ to being <em>convinced<\/em> of the gospel? We\u2019ll talk more with Chap Bettis about that today. Stay with us.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. You guys have a new book coming out pretty quickly on parenting; right?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> We do.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Coming out.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> What\u2019s it called?\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> <em>No Perfect Parents.<\/em>\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And they picked you?\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I don\u2019t know why the publisher\u2014\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014picked you to write that one?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> We didn\u2019t have that title until the publisher <em>read<\/em> the manuscript. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It was sort of funny; it was going to be <em>Vertical Parenting<\/em>\u2014\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014like <em>Vertical Marriage.<\/em>\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014the sequel to <em>Vertical Marriage<\/em>. Then they read it and said, \u201cYou know, you guys keep talking about how you\u2019re not very perfect; so we think it\u2019s <em>No Perfect Parents.<\/em>\u201d Actually, that was about Ann; because <em>I<\/em> was perfect\u2014everybody knows <em>that<\/em>. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> When you were working on the book, did you stop and think, \u201cIs there a verse that is kind of <em>the<\/em> parenting verse?\u201d I know most people, when you think, \u201cWhat\u2019s the parenting verse?\u201d they think Deuteronomy 6 is where you go for parenting; and that\u2019s a great parenting verse.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s the one I usually use.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Is that the one you pick?\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It\u2019s in there, of course, because it\u2019s really a great vision and very practical. But really, it was based on the idea that most of us, as parents, never decide what we\u2019re shooting for: \u201cWhat are we trying to raise?\u201d It was Psalm 127\u2014arrows that we launch with a mission\u2014the big idea of the book is: \u201cWhat\u2019s your bullseye?\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> We just copied it from the <em>Art of Parenting<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup>. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You saw the movie, <em>Like Arrows<\/em>, and you said, \u201cThere we go.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Exactly.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Exactly, exactly.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We have got a friend joining us on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, Chap Bettis. Chap, welcome.\n\n<strong>Chap:<\/strong> Thank you very much for having me.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Chap is the author of a book called <em>The Disciple-Making Parent.<\/em> We\u2019re having this conversation, in part, because as I read your book\u2014you say the north star for parenting is a verse that I was very familiar with\u2014I thought, \u201cI don\u2019t know if I\u2019ve every thought of that as a parenting verse.\u201d But sure enough, it is! What\u2019s the verse?\n\n<strong>Chap:<\/strong> Matthew 28:18-20, the Great Commission, that we\u2019re to go and make disciples.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> That\u2019s the one we meant, Bob.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Chap, when we read that, that\u2019s what I told Dave when we were reading your books and your material; I said, \u201cWe should\u2019ve used that verse! That is the verse!\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Actually, Chap, I already mentioned this to you\u2014she said that over and over and over\u2014\u201cWhy didn\u2019t we put this in our book? Why didn\u2019t we\u2026\u201d Seriously, very great job. It was excellent and very helpful, and I\u2019m excited to talk about it.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Help parents get a picture of the\u2014some people don\u2019t know what the Great Commission is\u2014so explain that, and why is that a parenting passage?\n\n<strong>Chap:<\/strong> I think every parent remembers when they saw their first child. The day your first child is born, you hold him or her in your arms\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> By the way, I know you\u2019re going to keep going\u2014but don\u2019t miss this moment\u2014because you wrote about it in your book. When you were driving home, I think\u2014talk about that.\n\n<strong>Chap:<\/strong> I\u2019m getting teared up now, just thinking about that again; because there\u2019s such a feeling of helplessness\u2014God has given you this helpless baby\u2014a responsibility that you have. You\u2019re thinking, \u201cLord, how do I do this?\u201d I remember driving home, and I think what happened was the clashing of the feelings of responsibility with what I know from the Scriptures.\n\nOften, it seems like it\u2019s easy to keep what we think of parenting and what we know about the Bible separate. But when you put that together, God has not just given you a baby; He\u2019s given you an eternal soul to influence. You say, \u201cOkay; what actually <em>is<\/em> best?\u201d I think parenting raises those ultimate questions because good parents want to give their kids the best, but what <em>is<\/em> the best? That brings you back to: \u201cIt\u2019s the gospel; this is an eternal soul.\u201d\n\nDoes the Scripture have anything to say about that? Of course; yes, it does. Jesus tells us that we are\/the Great Commission is to go and make disciples, baptizing them and teaching them to obey everything that He\u2019s commanded. That\u2019s actually a fulfillment of, back in Genesis, where God\u2019s desire is to fill the earth with glory-bearers. Rightly, our churches send missionaries across the oceans and churches reach out across the streets. But we also need to reach out across the dining room table; that\u2019s really the most important thing\u2014this person that God has blessed us with for a few years; and as parents of adult children, we know it\u2019s very few\u2014this is a great privilege.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I love what you said\u2014you said, \u201cYou haven\u2019t just created a baby, but a person, who will live forever in heaven or forever in hell.\u201d <em>That\u2019s<\/em> what we need to remember, but we get a little bit lost.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I was going to say the disciple-making mission of a parent\u2014you\u2019ve been a pastor; I\u2019ve been a pastor; Bob\u2019s a pastor\u2014I\u2019ve lost that sometimes. I had it in my mind as a pastor: \u201cI\u2019m making disciples at my church; that\u2019s what I\u2019m called to do.\u201d I\u2019d come home, and I\u2019d forget: \u201cI\u2019m just a dad,\u201d \u201cI\u2019m just a husband.\u201d No, no, no; I\u2019m supposed to make disciples. Did you ever lose that focus?\n\n<strong>Chap:<\/strong> Oh, yes; you lose that all the time. That\u2019s why I say it\u2019s the north star, because you get off track. We all do; different winds and different forces push us off in our own heart. Fears\u2014parents wrestling with fear\u2014you\u2019re raising your kids, and suddenly your friend\u2019s child is taking dance or violin. You get this little catch in your stomach, like, \u201cOh, is my child falling behind?\u201d\n\nCertainly there\u2019s nothing wrong\u2014those are all good things\u2014but I need to remember: \u201cWhat am I focusing on?\u201d Yes, you can get off track all the time; and God is gracious. It\u2019s not about being the perfect parent [Laughter]\u2014to go back to your book\u2014but to say, \u201cThis is the north star. This is where my heart is; this is what I\u2019m aiming for.\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> There\u2019s a great quote in your book; you say something like, \u201cNo one can be the perfect parent, but there are thousands of ways to be a good parent.\u201d\n\n<strong>Chap:<\/strong> Exactly.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I thought, \u201cThat\u2019s exactly right.\u201d If we could just focus on: \u201cOkay; my goal today is to be a good parent in one of those thousands of ways,\u201d rather than come under the crushing weight of being the perfect parent, which\u2014as you guys say\u2014there is no perfect parent.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014and no perfect kids.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right; so this process of disciple-making, I think it\u2019s important we say to parents, \u201cYou can\u2019t make what you aren\u2019t. You have to first be a disciple before you can make a disciple. You have to first be one of those committed to following the Lord before you can show others how to follow the Lord\u201d; right?\n\n<strong>Chap:<\/strong> It\u2019s interesting that in the New Testament, the word, \u201cChristian,\u201d is only used 3 times; and \u201cdisciple\u201d is used 269. Disciple was a much more common way for followers of Jesus to refer to themselves. A disciple is a learner: someone who is following a master, and following his teaching, following his way of life.\n\nPaul says, \u201cImitate me as I imitate Christ.\u201d Our children <em>are<\/em> going to imitate us. Some modeling is actually really the most important key of any spiritual leadership. Our children, when they\u2019re young, they\u2019re imitating us. When they\u2019re older, as you know, teenagers are evaluating us: \u201cAre we [parents] living the faith?\u201d\u2014that\u2019s the most important thing.\n\nIn fact, Paul was able to say to Timothy\/talk about the faith that lived in his mother and grandmother, 2 Timothy 1:5. That should be encouraging; because we know, for those imperfect families\u2014as all of ours are\u2014Timothy\u2019s father was not a believer. This was not a cookie-baking <em>Little House on the Prairie<\/em> home that Timothy is growing up in. Yet, he is walking with the Lord and used by the Lord as Paul\u2019s son in the faith. That should encourage us. Do we have a <em>living<\/em> faith that our kids are seeing?\u2014not playing church\u2014but actually, we have a <em>living<\/em> walk with the Lord.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And it is somewhat scary, too; because they\u2019re going to copy us, good and bad. I remember one time I was sitting at a stoplight with three little boys\u2014they\u2019re all husbands and dads now\u2014but they were\/I think CJ, my oldest, might have been five; so five, three, and maybe one? We\u2019re sitting there; I\u2019ll never forget it\u2014I don\u2019t know why it\u2019s so vivid, because it\u2019s decades ago\u2014CJ hits the power window button. He was in the front seat, and it goes down. He goes [sound of spitting] and he spits out the window; [Laughter] it goes back up\u2014it\u2019s just one of those things. I look over and go, \u201cCJ, what are you doing? You don\u2019t spit out the window!\u201d He goes, \u201cYou do, Dad.\u201d [Laughter] I go, \u201cNo, I don\u2019t.\u201d I look in the mirror; and both heads are going, \u201cYes, you do; yes, you do.\u201d\n\nI\u2019m like, \u201cOh, my goodness! They are copying!\u201d\u2014hopefully the good as well as the bad\u2014it hit me right then and there: \u201cThey\u2019re going to do what I do, no matter what I say. I can say whatever I want. They\u2019re going to walk the way I walk.\u201d You talk about making disciples\u2014it\u2019s Bob\u2019s question\u2014\u201cAm I a disciple worth walking behind?\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We were driving down the street one day. Our son, James, was in the car seat in the back. I think he was just learning to talk\u2014a year-and-a-half or two years old. I\u2019m driving; Mary Ann is in the passenger seat. I\u2019m on the main street, and somebody pulls up on the side street like he\u2019s going to come out. I didn\u2019t know if they saw me, so I tapped the horn to let them know I was there, just a little beep, beep. From the back, I hear my almost two-year-old son say, \u201cJerk!\u201d [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Come on!\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Seriously. I turned around and look at him, like, \u201cWhere did that\u2026\u201d He\u2019s just smiling; he doesn\u2019t know what he said. I look at Mary Ann, whose head is in her hands. I said, \u201cWhere\u2019d he get that?\u201d She said, \u201cI said it <em>once<\/em>.\u201d [Laughter] But that\u2019s the point we\u2019re making: our kids will obey what we tell them, but they\u2019ll become who we <em>are<\/em>. If we\u2019re going to be disciple-making parents, we have to be committed followers of Christ, which does not mean we have to be perfect.\n\nThis is one of the things I fell into; I thought, \u201cOkay; I must always model perfection and righteousness, or I\u2019m going to mess up my kids.\u201d No, part of what you have to model is what you do when you blow it, and what repentance looks like; right?\n\n<strong>Chap:<\/strong> Yes; and that\u2019s grace. We need grace; that\u2019s what our kids need to realize\u2014that the Christian faith is not perfection. I thought that the hypocrisy\/so hypocrisy\u2014when they do studies and find out why young people walk away from the faith\u2014it\u2019s hypocrisy. But I don\u2019t think hypocrisy is what you\u2019re talking about\u2014being an imperfect parent\u2014it\u2019s being an imperfect parent <em>and<\/em> not caring. You don\u2019t care; you have this secret sin in the home. They know it\u2014nobody else in the church knows it\u2014and you\u2019re not working on it. As opposed to\u2014so your analogy with you saying, \u201cjerk,\u201d or whatever\u2014you say, \u201cI need to work on this. I need to grow in holiness so that my kids see a living faith, and they see me growing.\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And you say to your kids: \u201cDaddy blew it,\u201d \u201cMommy messed up,\u201d and \u201cI\u2019ve asked Jesus to forgive me, and I need to ask you to forgive me,\u201d\u2014so that they get a picture of: \u201cHere\u2019s what happens when you blow it.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I remember, when our kids were in our home, I would have this thought, like, \u201cWhat am I <em>thinking<\/em> about all of the time in my head?\u201d because what I\u2019m thinking about is what\u2019s going to come out of my mouth. It\u2019s really: \u201cWhat is discipling me? Am I watching stuff on TV? What\u2019s filling my mind?\u201d I realize\u2014when I\u2019m not in the Word; when I\u2019m not in fellowship; when I\u2019m not with my friends, talking about Jesus\u2014that\u2019s not on my mind! I became really adamant: \u201cI need to fill my mind with God\u2019s Word\/with good things, because that\u2019s what\u2019s going to flow out of my mouth,\u201d\u2014it\u2019s Scripture.\n\nIt was a good evaluation: \u201cHave I talked about Jesus much today? Have I talked about what God\u2019s doing in my life today?\u201d It was this good check: \u201cGoodness! I haven\u2019t even talked about Him at all, for days!\u201d And our kids\u2014they see all of that. I like what you said about teenagers\u2014\u201cThey\u2019re evaluating us,\u201d\u2014isn\u2019t that terrible? [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Chap:<\/strong> I did the same. Did you two?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes! Yes, you start evaluating <em>everything<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> In fact, tell us a little of your journey. I think your spiritual story is probably pretty typical for church kids. The question is: \u201cWhat do they do when they get into young adulthood?\u201d Tell your story.\n\n<strong>Chap:<\/strong> I grew up in a church-going home and faithful parents. We attended church and youth group. I believe I made a genuine profession of faith when I was around eight. I believe God changed my heart at that point. Having said that, though, I also had\u2014in the high school years\u2014had a number of questions. For me, they were intellectual questions: \u201cHow do I know God exists?\u201d I distinctly remember sitting in the sanctuary of the church: \u201cHow do we know this is all true? How do you know you can trust the Scripture? How do we know they didn\u2019t make it up? Is there evidence for Jesus outside of the Gospels?\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> How old were you?\n\n<strong>Chap:<\/strong> I was probably 10<sup>th<\/sup> grade\u201410\/11<sup>th<\/sup> grade. It was when I went to college\u2014believe it or not, secular college\u2014that I started questioning and finding answers through a college fellowship and apologetic books. I ended up, along the way, really recommitting myself to the Lord. C.S. Lewis has a quote: \u201cChristianity, if true, is of ultimate importance. If it\u2019s not true, it\u2019s of no importance. The only thing it\u2019s not is moderately important,\u201d\u2014so either be in, or be out; but don\u2019t just play the game and be lukewarm.\n\nSince then, the Lord has shown me 2 Timothy 3:14\u2014I believe this pattern is very typical for those who grow up in the Christian faith\/2 Timothy 3:14\u2014Paul says to Timothy, \u201cAs for you, continue in what you learned and became convinced of.\u201d For me, I would say I learned the faith; I came to faith as a young child, but I became <em>convinced<\/em> in my college years.\n\nWhen I\u2019ll do seminars, I\u2019ll ask people to: \u201cRaise your hand if you professed Christ at a young age; you grew up in a Christian home\u201d; then, \u201cNow, keep your hands up if you\u2019d say, \u2018I had a later time when my faith became my own.\u2019\u201d Ninety-eight percent of the hands stay up.\n\nI think, for me, as a disciple-maker, to realize, \u201cI\u2019m so excited that my seven-year-old made a profession of faith. I\u2019m really excited about that.\u201d But now the temptation is to say: \u201cOkay; now, let\u2019s go pursue all the\/education and all these other things; we\u2019ve got the Christian thing done.\u201d To say, \u201cNo; actually, even as my good child is going to church,\u201d\u2014or whatever\u2014\u201cthey\u2019re going to have questions. There will come a time when they need to become convinced.\u201d Sometimes, it\u2019s through trials; sometimes it\u2019s through intellectual questioning, where they\u2019re saying, \u201cYes, I\u2019m all in.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes, I think what you\u2019re saying is so true. I picked up a book when I was a young dad called <em>The Dangers of Growing up in a Christian Home<\/em>. I picked it up because I didn\u2019t grow up in a Christian home, but now I\u2019m leading one. I thought, \u201cHmm; what are the dangers?\u201d I don\u2019t remember much from the book, but I do remember that point was you have to, as a parent, let go; their faith has to become theirs, not yours. It\u2019s going to be their parents\u2019 for quite awhile; at some point, they have to become convinced and make it theirs.\n\nA couple weeks ago, we had this interesting incident take place in our home. I went to help my son, who trains receivers\u2014he was a college and NFL receiver for a short time\u2014he has this ministry, training high school kids. He has his dad come throw. I\u2019m the thrower, because I was a quarterback back in the day; so I come and throw to these kids. We\u2019re going to train this one kid at this certain school. I get a text from my son: \u201cWe\u2019re going to be at a different school; there\u2019s people on the thing.\u201d I go to this other school. Ann calls me and says, \u201cHey, I\u2019m going to bring Bryce,\u201d my son\u2019s son.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014who just happened to have spent that night on a whim; he just happened to have spent the night. I said, \u201cHey, Bryce would love to be on the football field. I\u2019m going to bring him over.\u201d He said, \u201cWe were here, but don\u2019t go there; go here.\u201d I get over there; and he says, \u201cDon\u2019t park in this parking lot; park in this other parking lot.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014just to help her; it\u2019s going to be a lot closer.\n\nWe\u2019re telling you all the details, because they end up playing out in the story. Get done; get home. Ann beats me home; she goes, \u201cI found a wallet in the parking lot where you had me park.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> In this wallet\u2014it\u2019s a college student, because we\u2019re on a college campus.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> By the way, she has all the money laying on our kitchen table. I\u2019m like, \u201cYou went through this kid\u2019s wallet?!\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I was going to leave the wallet, but then I thought, \u201cThere\u2019s $250.\u201d I thought, \u201cI\u2019ll find him on social media.\u201d I did. I call him and I said, \u201cHey, are you looking for your wallet?\u201d He goes, \u201cOh, man; yes! I\u2019ve been looking all morning. Did you find it?\u201d I give him our address; say, \u201cCome and get it; we\u2019ve got it.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Next thing you know, ding dong! He\u2019s at the front door. I\u2019m in the family room, watching football. I hear him go, \u201cAnn Wilson?!\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And then he says\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann and Dave:<\/strong> \u201c\u2014is Dave here?\u201d [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019m like, \u201cWhat?\u201d I get up, and he\u2019s in the kitchen.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> He says, \u201cCan I come in and talk to you guys?\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> He goes, \u201cI can\u2019t believe I\u2019m standing in <em>your<\/em> kitchen. I go to your church! I\u2019ve been at your church since I was a baby. I\u2019ve been there my entire life; my parents took me there. I\u2019ve worked at Christian camps. I\u2019ve had this great faith journey, and I\u2019ve lost my faith.\u201d He goes, \u201cSix months ago, I said, \u2018This is my parents\u2019 faith; it\u2019s not mine,\u2019\u201d\u2014he literally used those words. He goes, \u201cI just recently started praying, \u2018God, I need a sign that You\u2019re real, that You see me, that You care about me, that You\u2019re real.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u201cOtherwise, I\u2019m checking out.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> He said, \u201cI\u2019m done.\u201d He looks at us; he goes, \u201cThis is the sign; I\u2019m all in! I\u2019m going all in!\u201d Of course, I\u2019m looking at Ann, like, \u201cShe\u2019s right; it was a God thing.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I said, \u201cI made you these cookies, because I <em>felt<\/em> like this could be a significant moment.\u201d It was interesting\u2014we laid hands on him; we prayed for him.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> We <em>social-distance<\/em> laid hands on him, just to be careful. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Not really; he came in with a mask, though. As we were praying, it was sweet; because when we were done, I look over at Dave. We all have tears in our eyes. Dave, tell them what you said to him.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> She looks at me; you [Bob] know my wife: \u201cLook at you! You\u2019re crying!\u201d I don\u2019t cry much. We\u2019re standing at the door; he\u2019s getting ready to leave. What hit me in that moment was, \u201cLook what God did with a lost wallet.\u201d <em>He<\/em> doesn\u2019t know of all the situations of how she ended up in that parking spot at that school. It was supposed to be totally different. But it just hit me: \u201cLook at what God did to bring a lost wallet and my wife together to touch a kid that\u2019s a young man that needs to make his faith his own.\u201d\n\nWhen you said that\u2014that was it\u2014I watched it. Now, who knows where that\u2019s going to go. But it was this moment, when somebody\u2019s son\u2014he texted us later, by the way, and said, \u201cHey, I don\u2019t know if you remember this; but Dave, you married my parents twenty-seven years ago\u201d; so I did their wedding. Here it was\u2014it was that moment\u2014where a twenty-year-old young man says, \u201cIt\u2019s no longer my parents\u2019 faith; I\u2019ve got to own this.\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I\u2019m thinking there may be some moms and dads, who are going to pray tonight that their child loses their wallet. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes, yes!\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>No, seriously; it\u2019s not a bad prayer to pray, that God would do something dramatic in the life of a son or a daughter\u2014who is questioning, who is wandering, who has lapsed\u2014who is in that moment of doubt, or sometimes, in a moment, where the lure of the culture looks brighter and shinier than the gospel looks. Kids in high school and college, young adults, are drifting for a variety of reasons. As parents, prayer is one of the main things we can do; and just say, \u201cGod, would You do something amazing like that in my child\u2019s life?\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And it\u2019s so encouraging, Bob, that we\u2019re not just discipling our kids alone\u2014that God is walking alongside us\u2014He\u2019s cheering for our kids; He\u2019s cheering for us. It\u2019s a good reminder that we can always talk to Him about our kids, because He cares more than we do.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> The goal is disciple-making; that\u2019s what we\u2019ve got to keep in front of us. Your job is to go, therefore, and make disciples of your children.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And first become a disciple.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That\u2019s right; teach them to observe all that God has commanded.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And know that God\u2019s going to do it for you, and with you, and through you.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Chap\u2019s book is a book we think every parent ought to read. In fact, Chap is making available the audio book for <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners this week for free. If you like audio books, or if you want access for free to the content we\u2019ve been talking about today, go to FamilyLifeToday.com. You\u2019ll find information there on how you can download the audio book, <em>The Disciple-Making Parent<\/em>.\n\nIf you\u2019d like to order the paper book, that\u2019s available on our website as well. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com. If you have any questions, call us at 1-800-FL-TODAY. While you\u2019re on our website, check out the <em>Art of Parenting<\/em> video series. Information about the <em>Art of Parenting<\/em> can be found at FamilyLifeToday.com, or you can call if you have any questions: 1-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\nI think all of us, as we look toward this new year, are looking with expectation\/with hope. We\u2019re looking for 2021 to be a better year than 2020 was for many of us. From all of us, here at FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, we want to say, \u201cThank you,\u201d to those of you who, in the closing days of 2020, rallied and made contributions to help support the ongoing work of this ministry. We are grateful for your partnership with us in the gospel. You are making practical biblical help and hope for marriages and families available 24 hours a day, 7 days a week through the resources of FamilyLife every time you give. That\u2019s what you\u2019re helping to support. We appreciate you. Thanks for your support of the ministry. We look forward to 2021 and what God is going to do through your investment in this ministry this year.\n\nWe hope you can join us, again, tomorrow as we\u2019re going to continue to talk about how we, as parents, make disciples of the next generation, particularly our own children. Chap Bettis will be back with us again. We hope you can be back as well.\n\nI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\n<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\nWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\nCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2021 FamilyLife. 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});\";s:18:\"current_block_list\";a:17:{i:0;s:14:\"uagb\/container\";i:1;s:12:\"core\/heading\";i:2;s:9:\"core\/html\";i:3;s:10:\"core\/group\";i:6;s:21:\"uagb\/advanced-heading\";i:7;s:14:\"uagb\/separator\";i:8;s:14:\"uagb\/icon-list\";i:9;s:20:\"uagb\/icon-list-child\";i:10;s:11:\"core\/search\";i:13;s:18:\"core\/legacy-widget\";i:16;s:10:\"uagb\/image\";i:17;s:17:\"core\/social-links\";i:18;s:16:\"core\/social-link\";i:19;s:14:\"core\/paragraph\";i:20;s:30:\"meta-box\/fl-conditional-blocks\";i:21;s:12:\"uagb\/buttons\";i:22;s:18:\"uagb\/buttons-child\";}s:8:\"uag_flag\";b:1;s:11:\"uag_version\";s:10:\"1776341013\";s:6:\"gfonts\";a:1:{s:7:\"Default\";a:2:{s:10:\"fontfamily\";s:7:\"Default\";s:12:\"fontvariants\";a:0:{}}}s:10:\"gfonts_url\";s:71:\"\/\/fonts.googleapis.com\/css?family=Default&subset=latin&display=fallback\";s:12:\"gfonts_files\";a:0:{}s:14:\"uag_faq_layout\";b:0;}"]},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg",508,508,false]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"kfairris@familylife.com","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/kfairrisfamilylife-com\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"As we make disciples and reach across the oceans, are we also reaching across the dinner table? Chap Bettis talks about fulfilling the Great Commission through our own children.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2021-01-11.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Chap Bettis\u2019 spiritual journey is a journey that he has learned, over the years, is not atypical.\n\n<strong>Chap:<\/strong> For me, I would say I came to faith as a young child; but I became <em>convinced<\/em> in my college years. When I do seminars, I\u2019ll ask people to \u201cRaise your hand if you professed Christ at a young age; you grew up in a Christian home\u201d; then, \u201cNow, keep your hands up if you\u2019d say, \u2018I had a later time when my faith became my own.\u2019\u201d Ninety-eight percent of the hands stay up.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Monday, January 11<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I'm Bob Lepine. You can find us online at FamilyLifeToday.com. How can we, as parents, help our children on their journey as they move from a commitment to Christ to being <em>convinced<\/em> of the gospel? We\u2019ll talk more with Chap Bettis about that today. Stay with us.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. You guys have a new book coming out pretty quickly on parenting; right?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> We do.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Coming out.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> What\u2019s it called?\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> <em>No Perfect Parents.<\/em>\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And they picked you?\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I don\u2019t know why the publisher\u2014\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014picked you to write that one?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> We didn\u2019t have that title until the publisher <em>read<\/em> the manuscript. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It was sort of funny; it was going to be <em>Vertical Parenting<\/em>\u2014\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014like <em>Vertical Marriage.<\/em>\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014the sequel to <em>Vertical Marriage<\/em>. Then they read it and said, \u201cYou know, you guys keep talking about how you\u2019re not very perfect; so we think it\u2019s <em>No Perfect Parents.<\/em>\u201d Actually, that was about Ann; because <em>I<\/em> was perfect\u2014everybody knows <em>that<\/em>. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> When you were working on the book, did you stop and think, \u201cIs there a verse that is kind of <em>the<\/em> parenting verse?\u201d I know most people, when you think, \u201cWhat\u2019s the parenting verse?\u201d they think Deuteronomy 6 is where you go for parenting; and that\u2019s a great parenting verse.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s the one I usually use.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Is that the one you pick?\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It\u2019s in there, of course, because it\u2019s really a great vision and very practical. But really, it was based on the idea that most of us, as parents, never decide what we\u2019re shooting for: \u201cWhat are we trying to raise?\u201d It was Psalm 127\u2014arrows that we launch with a mission\u2014the big idea of the book is: \u201cWhat\u2019s your bullseye?\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> We just copied it from the <em>Art of Parenting<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup>. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You saw the movie, <em>Like Arrows<\/em>, and you said, \u201cThere we go.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Exactly.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Exactly, exactly.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We have got a friend joining us on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, Chap Bettis. Chap, welcome.\n\n<strong>Chap:<\/strong> Thank you very much for having me.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Chap is the author of a book called <em>The Disciple-Making Parent.<\/em> We\u2019re having this conversation, in part, because as I read your book\u2014you say the north star for parenting is a verse that I was very familiar with\u2014I thought, \u201cI don\u2019t know if I\u2019ve every thought of that as a parenting verse.\u201d But sure enough, it is! What\u2019s the verse?\n\n<strong>Chap:<\/strong> Matthew 28:18-20, the Great Commission, that we\u2019re to go and make disciples.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> That\u2019s the one we meant, Bob.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Chap, when we read that, that\u2019s what I told Dave when we were reading your books and your material; I said, \u201cWe should\u2019ve used that verse! That is the verse!\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Actually, Chap, I already mentioned this to you\u2014she said that over and over and over\u2014\u201cWhy didn\u2019t we put this in our book? Why didn\u2019t we\u2026\u201d Seriously, very great job. It was excellent and very helpful, and I\u2019m excited to talk about it.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Help parents get a picture of the\u2014some people don\u2019t know what the Great Commission is\u2014so explain that, and why is that a parenting passage?\n\n<strong>Chap:<\/strong> I think every parent remembers when they saw their first child. The day your first child is born, you hold him or her in your arms\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> By the way, I know you\u2019re going to keep going\u2014but don\u2019t miss this moment\u2014because you wrote about it in your book. When you were driving home, I think\u2014talk about that.\n\n<strong>Chap:<\/strong> I\u2019m getting teared up now, just thinking about that again; because there\u2019s such a feeling of helplessness\u2014God has given you this helpless baby\u2014a responsibility that you have. You\u2019re thinking, \u201cLord, how do I do this?\u201d I remember driving home, and I think what happened was the clashing of the feelings of responsibility with what I know from the Scriptures.\n\nOften, it seems like it\u2019s easy to keep what we think of parenting and what we know about the Bible separate. But when you put that together, God has not just given you a baby; He\u2019s given you an eternal soul to influence. You say, \u201cOkay; what actually <em>is<\/em> best?\u201d I think parenting raises those ultimate questions because good parents want to give their kids the best, but what <em>is<\/em> the best? That brings you back to: \u201cIt\u2019s the gospel; this is an eternal soul.\u201d\n\nDoes the Scripture have anything to say about that? Of course; yes, it does. Jesus tells us that we are\/the Great Commission is to go and make disciples, baptizing them and teaching them to obey everything that He\u2019s commanded. That\u2019s actually a fulfillment of, back in Genesis, where God\u2019s desire is to fill the earth with glory-bearers. Rightly, our churches send missionaries across the oceans and churches reach out across the streets. But we also need to reach out across the dining room table; that\u2019s really the most important thing\u2014this person that God has blessed us with for a few years; and as parents of adult children, we know it\u2019s very few\u2014this is a great privilege.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I love what you said\u2014you said, \u201cYou haven\u2019t just created a baby, but a person, who will live forever in heaven or forever in hell.\u201d <em>That\u2019s<\/em> what we need to remember, but we get a little bit lost.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I was going to say the disciple-making mission of a parent\u2014you\u2019ve been a pastor; I\u2019ve been a pastor; Bob\u2019s a pastor\u2014I\u2019ve lost that sometimes. I had it in my mind as a pastor: \u201cI\u2019m making disciples at my church; that\u2019s what I\u2019m called to do.\u201d I\u2019d come home, and I\u2019d forget: \u201cI\u2019m just a dad,\u201d \u201cI\u2019m just a husband.\u201d No, no, no; I\u2019m supposed to make disciples. Did you ever lose that focus?\n\n<strong>Chap:<\/strong> Oh, yes; you lose that all the time. That\u2019s why I say it\u2019s the north star, because you get off track. We all do; different winds and different forces push us off in our own heart. Fears\u2014parents wrestling with fear\u2014you\u2019re raising your kids, and suddenly your friend\u2019s child is taking dance or violin. You get this little catch in your stomach, like, \u201cOh, is my child falling behind?\u201d\n\nCertainly there\u2019s nothing wrong\u2014those are all good things\u2014but I need to remember: \u201cWhat am I focusing on?\u201d Yes, you can get off track all the time; and God is gracious. It\u2019s not about being the perfect parent [Laughter]\u2014to go back to your book\u2014but to say, \u201cThis is the north star. This is where my heart is; this is what I\u2019m aiming for.\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> There\u2019s a great quote in your book; you say something like, \u201cNo one can be the perfect parent, but there are thousands of ways to be a good parent.\u201d\n\n<strong>Chap:<\/strong> Exactly.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I thought, \u201cThat\u2019s exactly right.\u201d If we could just focus on: \u201cOkay; my goal today is to be a good parent in one of those thousands of ways,\u201d rather than come under the crushing weight of being the perfect parent, which\u2014as you guys say\u2014there is no perfect parent.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014and no perfect kids.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right; so this process of disciple-making, I think it\u2019s important we say to parents, \u201cYou can\u2019t make what you aren\u2019t. You have to first be a disciple before you can make a disciple. You have to first be one of those committed to following the Lord before you can show others how to follow the Lord\u201d; right?\n\n<strong>Chap:<\/strong> It\u2019s interesting that in the New Testament, the word, \u201cChristian,\u201d is only used 3 times; and \u201cdisciple\u201d is used 269. Disciple was a much more common way for followers of Jesus to refer to themselves. A disciple is a learner: someone who is following a master, and following his teaching, following his way of life.\n\nPaul says, \u201cImitate me as I imitate Christ.\u201d Our children <em>are<\/em> going to imitate us. Some modeling is actually really the most important key of any spiritual leadership. Our children, when they\u2019re young, they\u2019re imitating us. When they\u2019re older, as you know, teenagers are evaluating us: \u201cAre we [parents] living the faith?\u201d\u2014that\u2019s the most important thing.\n\nIn fact, Paul was able to say to Timothy\/talk about the faith that lived in his mother and grandmother, 2 Timothy 1:5. That should be encouraging; because we know, for those imperfect families\u2014as all of ours are\u2014Timothy\u2019s father was not a believer. This was not a cookie-baking <em>Little House on the Prairie<\/em> home that Timothy is growing up in. Yet, he is walking with the Lord and used by the Lord as Paul\u2019s son in the faith. That should encourage us. Do we have a <em>living<\/em> faith that our kids are seeing?\u2014not playing church\u2014but actually, we have a <em>living<\/em> walk with the Lord.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And it is somewhat scary, too; because they\u2019re going to copy us, good and bad. I remember one time I was sitting at a stoplight with three little boys\u2014they\u2019re all husbands and dads now\u2014but they were\/I think CJ, my oldest, might have been five; so five, three, and maybe one? We\u2019re sitting there; I\u2019ll never forget it\u2014I don\u2019t know why it\u2019s so vivid, because it\u2019s decades ago\u2014CJ hits the power window button. He was in the front seat, and it goes down. He goes [sound of spitting] and he spits out the window; [Laughter] it goes back up\u2014it\u2019s just one of those things. I look over and go, \u201cCJ, what are you doing? You don\u2019t spit out the window!\u201d He goes, \u201cYou do, Dad.\u201d [Laughter] I go, \u201cNo, I don\u2019t.\u201d I look in the mirror; and both heads are going, \u201cYes, you do; yes, you do.\u201d\n\nI\u2019m like, \u201cOh, my goodness! They are copying!\u201d\u2014hopefully the good as well as the bad\u2014it hit me right then and there: \u201cThey\u2019re going to do what I do, no matter what I say. I can say whatever I want. They\u2019re going to walk the way I walk.\u201d You talk about making disciples\u2014it\u2019s Bob\u2019s question\u2014\u201cAm I a disciple worth walking behind?\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We were driving down the street one day. Our son, James, was in the car seat in the back. I think he was just learning to talk\u2014a year-and-a-half or two years old. I\u2019m driving; Mary Ann is in the passenger seat. I\u2019m on the main street, and somebody pulls up on the side street like he\u2019s going to come out. I didn\u2019t know if they saw me, so I tapped the horn to let them know I was there, just a little beep, beep. From the back, I hear my almost two-year-old son say, \u201cJerk!\u201d [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Come on!\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Seriously. I turned around and look at him, like, \u201cWhere did that\u2026\u201d He\u2019s just smiling; he doesn\u2019t know what he said. I look at Mary Ann, whose head is in her hands. I said, \u201cWhere\u2019d he get that?\u201d She said, \u201cI said it <em>once<\/em>.\u201d [Laughter] But that\u2019s the point we\u2019re making: our kids will obey what we tell them, but they\u2019ll become who we <em>are<\/em>. If we\u2019re going to be disciple-making parents, we have to be committed followers of Christ, which does not mean we have to be perfect.\n\nThis is one of the things I fell into; I thought, \u201cOkay; I must always model perfection and righteousness, or I\u2019m going to mess up my kids.\u201d No, part of what you have to model is what you do when you blow it, and what repentance looks like; right?\n\n<strong>Chap:<\/strong> Yes; and that\u2019s grace. We need grace; that\u2019s what our kids need to realize\u2014that the Christian faith is not perfection. I thought that the hypocrisy\/so hypocrisy\u2014when they do studies and find out why young people walk away from the faith\u2014it\u2019s hypocrisy. But I don\u2019t think hypocrisy is what you\u2019re talking about\u2014being an imperfect parent\u2014it\u2019s being an imperfect parent <em>and<\/em> not caring. You don\u2019t care; you have this secret sin in the home. They know it\u2014nobody else in the church knows it\u2014and you\u2019re not working on it. As opposed to\u2014so your analogy with you saying, \u201cjerk,\u201d or whatever\u2014you say, \u201cI need to work on this. I need to grow in holiness so that my kids see a living faith, and they see me growing.\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And you say to your kids: \u201cDaddy blew it,\u201d \u201cMommy messed up,\u201d and \u201cI\u2019ve asked Jesus to forgive me, and I need to ask you to forgive me,\u201d\u2014so that they get a picture of: \u201cHere\u2019s what happens when you blow it.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I remember, when our kids were in our home, I would have this thought, like, \u201cWhat am I <em>thinking<\/em> about all of the time in my head?\u201d because what I\u2019m thinking about is what\u2019s going to come out of my mouth. It\u2019s really: \u201cWhat is discipling me? Am I watching stuff on TV? What\u2019s filling my mind?\u201d I realize\u2014when I\u2019m not in the Word; when I\u2019m not in fellowship; when I\u2019m not with my friends, talking about Jesus\u2014that\u2019s not on my mind! I became really adamant: \u201cI need to fill my mind with God\u2019s Word\/with good things, because that\u2019s what\u2019s going to flow out of my mouth,\u201d\u2014it\u2019s Scripture.\n\nIt was a good evaluation: \u201cHave I talked about Jesus much today? Have I talked about what God\u2019s doing in my life today?\u201d It was this good check: \u201cGoodness! I haven\u2019t even talked about Him at all, for days!\u201d And our kids\u2014they see all of that. I like what you said about teenagers\u2014\u201cThey\u2019re evaluating us,\u201d\u2014isn\u2019t that terrible? [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Chap:<\/strong> I did the same. Did you two?\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes! Yes, you start evaluating <em>everything<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> In fact, tell us a little of your journey. I think your spiritual story is probably pretty typical for church kids. The question is: \u201cWhat do they do when they get into young adulthood?\u201d Tell your story.\n\n<strong>Chap:<\/strong> I grew up in a church-going home and faithful parents. We attended church and youth group. I believe I made a genuine profession of faith when I was around eight. I believe God changed my heart at that point. Having said that, though, I also had\u2014in the high school years\u2014had a number of questions. For me, they were intellectual questions: \u201cHow do I know God exists?\u201d I distinctly remember sitting in the sanctuary of the church: \u201cHow do we know this is all true? How do you know you can trust the Scripture? How do we know they didn\u2019t make it up? Is there evidence for Jesus outside of the Gospels?\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> How old were you?\n\n<strong>Chap:<\/strong> I was probably 10<sup>th<\/sup> grade\u201410\/11<sup>th<\/sup> grade. It was when I went to college\u2014believe it or not, secular college\u2014that I started questioning and finding answers through a college fellowship and apologetic books. I ended up, along the way, really recommitting myself to the Lord. C.S. Lewis has a quote: \u201cChristianity, if true, is of ultimate importance. If it\u2019s not true, it\u2019s of no importance. The only thing it\u2019s not is moderately important,\u201d\u2014so either be in, or be out; but don\u2019t just play the game and be lukewarm.\n\nSince then, the Lord has shown me 2 Timothy 3:14\u2014I believe this pattern is very typical for those who grow up in the Christian faith\/2 Timothy 3:14\u2014Paul says to Timothy, \u201cAs for you, continue in what you learned and became convinced of.\u201d For me, I would say I learned the faith; I came to faith as a young child, but I became <em>convinced<\/em> in my college years.\n\nWhen I\u2019ll do seminars, I\u2019ll ask people to: \u201cRaise your hand if you professed Christ at a young age; you grew up in a Christian home\u201d; then, \u201cNow, keep your hands up if you\u2019d say, \u2018I had a later time when my faith became my own.\u2019\u201d Ninety-eight percent of the hands stay up.\n\nI think, for me, as a disciple-maker, to realize, \u201cI\u2019m so excited that my seven-year-old made a profession of faith. I\u2019m really excited about that.\u201d But now the temptation is to say: \u201cOkay; now, let\u2019s go pursue all the\/education and all these other things; we\u2019ve got the Christian thing done.\u201d To say, \u201cNo; actually, even as my good child is going to church,\u201d\u2014or whatever\u2014\u201cthey\u2019re going to have questions. There will come a time when they need to become convinced.\u201d Sometimes, it\u2019s through trials; sometimes it\u2019s through intellectual questioning, where they\u2019re saying, \u201cYes, I\u2019m all in.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes, I think what you\u2019re saying is so true. I picked up a book when I was a young dad called <em>The Dangers of Growing up in a Christian Home<\/em>. I picked it up because I didn\u2019t grow up in a Christian home, but now I\u2019m leading one. I thought, \u201cHmm; what are the dangers?\u201d I don\u2019t remember much from the book, but I do remember that point was you have to, as a parent, let go; their faith has to become theirs, not yours. It\u2019s going to be their parents\u2019 for quite awhile; at some point, they have to become convinced and make it theirs.\n\nA couple weeks ago, we had this interesting incident take place in our home. I went to help my son, who trains receivers\u2014he was a college and NFL receiver for a short time\u2014he has this ministry, training high school kids. He has his dad come throw. I\u2019m the thrower, because I was a quarterback back in the day; so I come and throw to these kids. We\u2019re going to train this one kid at this certain school. I get a text from my son: \u201cWe\u2019re going to be at a different school; there\u2019s people on the thing.\u201d I go to this other school. Ann calls me and says, \u201cHey, I\u2019m going to bring Bryce,\u201d my son\u2019s son.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014who just happened to have spent that night on a whim; he just happened to have spent the night. I said, \u201cHey, Bryce would love to be on the football field. I\u2019m going to bring him over.\u201d He said, \u201cWe were here, but don\u2019t go there; go here.\u201d I get over there; and he says, \u201cDon\u2019t park in this parking lot; park in this other parking lot.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014just to help her; it\u2019s going to be a lot closer.\n\nWe\u2019re telling you all the details, because they end up playing out in the story. Get done; get home. Ann beats me home; she goes, \u201cI found a wallet in the parking lot where you had me park.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> In this wallet\u2014it\u2019s a college student, because we\u2019re on a college campus.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> By the way, she has all the money laying on our kitchen table. I\u2019m like, \u201cYou went through this kid\u2019s wallet?!\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I was going to leave the wallet, but then I thought, \u201cThere\u2019s $250.\u201d I thought, \u201cI\u2019ll find him on social media.\u201d I did. I call him and I said, \u201cHey, are you looking for your wallet?\u201d He goes, \u201cOh, man; yes! I\u2019ve been looking all morning. Did you find it?\u201d I give him our address; say, \u201cCome and get it; we\u2019ve got it.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Next thing you know, ding dong! He\u2019s at the front door. I\u2019m in the family room, watching football. I hear him go, \u201cAnn Wilson?!\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And then he says\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann and Dave:<\/strong> \u201c\u2014is Dave here?\u201d [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019m like, \u201cWhat?\u201d I get up, and he\u2019s in the kitchen.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> He says, \u201cCan I come in and talk to you guys?\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> He goes, \u201cI can\u2019t believe I\u2019m standing in <em>your<\/em> kitchen. I go to your church! I\u2019ve been at your church since I was a baby. I\u2019ve been there my entire life; my parents took me there. I\u2019ve worked at Christian camps. I\u2019ve had this great faith journey, and I\u2019ve lost my faith.\u201d He goes, \u201cSix months ago, I said, \u2018This is my parents\u2019 faith; it\u2019s not mine,\u2019\u201d\u2014he literally used those words. He goes, \u201cI just recently started praying, \u2018God, I need a sign that You\u2019re real, that You see me, that You care about me, that You\u2019re real.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u201cOtherwise, I\u2019m checking out.\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> He said, \u201cI\u2019m done.\u201d He looks at us; he goes, \u201cThis is the sign; I\u2019m all in! I\u2019m going all in!\u201d Of course, I\u2019m looking at Ann, like, \u201cShe\u2019s right; it was a God thing.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I said, \u201cI made you these cookies, because I <em>felt<\/em> like this could be a significant moment.\u201d It was interesting\u2014we laid hands on him; we prayed for him.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> We <em>social-distance<\/em> laid hands on him, just to be careful. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Not really; he came in with a mask, though. As we were praying, it was sweet; because when we were done, I look over at Dave. We all have tears in our eyes. Dave, tell them what you said to him.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> She looks at me; you [Bob] know my wife: \u201cLook at you! You\u2019re crying!\u201d I don\u2019t cry much. We\u2019re standing at the door; he\u2019s getting ready to leave. What hit me in that moment was, \u201cLook what God did with a lost wallet.\u201d <em>He<\/em> doesn\u2019t know of all the situations of how she ended up in that parking spot at that school. It was supposed to be totally different. But it just hit me: \u201cLook at what God did to bring a lost wallet and my wife together to touch a kid that\u2019s a young man that needs to make his faith his own.\u201d\n\nWhen you said that\u2014that was it\u2014I watched it. Now, who knows where that\u2019s going to go. But it was this moment, when somebody\u2019s son\u2014he texted us later, by the way, and said, \u201cHey, I don\u2019t know if you remember this; but Dave, you married my parents twenty-seven years ago\u201d; so I did their wedding. Here it was\u2014it was that moment\u2014where a twenty-year-old young man says, \u201cIt\u2019s no longer my parents\u2019 faith; I\u2019ve got to own this.\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I\u2019m thinking there may be some moms and dads, who are going to pray tonight that their child loses their wallet. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes, yes!\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>No, seriously; it\u2019s not a bad prayer to pray, that God would do something dramatic in the life of a son or a daughter\u2014who is questioning, who is wandering, who has lapsed\u2014who is in that moment of doubt, or sometimes, in a moment, where the lure of the culture looks brighter and shinier than the gospel looks. Kids in high school and college, young adults, are drifting for a variety of reasons. As parents, prayer is one of the main things we can do; and just say, \u201cGod, would You do something amazing like that in my child\u2019s life?\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And it\u2019s so encouraging, Bob, that we\u2019re not just discipling our kids alone\u2014that God is walking alongside us\u2014He\u2019s cheering for our kids; He\u2019s cheering for us. It\u2019s a good reminder that we can always talk to Him about our kids, because He cares more than we do.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> The goal is disciple-making; that\u2019s what we\u2019ve got to keep in front of us. Your job is to go, therefore, and make disciples of your children.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And first become a disciple.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That\u2019s right; teach them to observe all that God has commanded.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And know that God\u2019s going to do it for you, and with you, and through you.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Chap\u2019s book is a book we think every parent ought to read. In fact, Chap is making available the audio book for <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners this week for free. If you like audio books, or if you want access for free to the content we\u2019ve been talking about today, go to FamilyLifeToday.com. You\u2019ll find information there on how you can download the audio book, <em>The Disciple-Making Parent<\/em>.\n\nIf you\u2019d like to order the paper book, that\u2019s available on our website as well. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com. If you have any questions, call us at 1-800-FL-TODAY. While you\u2019re on our website, check out the <em>Art of Parenting<\/em> video series. Information about the <em>Art of Parenting<\/em> can be found at FamilyLifeToday.com, or you can call if you have any questions: 1-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\nI think all of us, as we look toward this new year, are looking with expectation\/with hope. We\u2019re looking for 2021 to be a better year than 2020 was for many of us. From all of us, here at FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, we want to say, \u201cThank you,\u201d to those of you who, in the closing days of 2020, rallied and made contributions to help support the ongoing work of this ministry. We are grateful for your partnership with us in the gospel. You are making practical biblical help and hope for marriages and families available 24 hours a day, 7 days a week through the resources of FamilyLife every time you give. That\u2019s what you\u2019re helping to support. We appreciate you. Thanks for your support of the ministry. We look forward to 2021 and what God is going to do through your investment in this ministry this year.\n\nWe hope you can join us, again, tomorrow as we\u2019re going to continue to talk about how we, as parents, make disciples of the next generation, particularly our own children. Chap Bettis will be back with us again. We hope you can be back as well.\n\nI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\n<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\nWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\nCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2021 FamilyLife. 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