{"id":306621,"date":"2020-12-16T07:00:04","date_gmt":"2020-12-16T12:00:04","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/maintaining-hope-when-your-kids-leave-the-faith\/"},"modified":"2020-12-16T07:00:04","modified_gmt":"2020-12-16T12:00:04","slug":"maintaining-hope-when-your-kids-leave-the-faith","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/maintaining-hope-when-your-kids-leave-the-faith\/","title":{"rendered":"Maintaining Hope When Your Kids Leave the Faith"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>If it looks like your son or daughter has abandoned their childhood faith, don&#8217;t lose hope. Dave &amp; Ann Wilson, and Bob Lepine say, you can remain a steady influence in their lives.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2020-12-16.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:25:01","filesize":"22.9M","filesize_raw":"24015786","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2856,2841],"tags":[2288],"podcast_series":[8416],"cwp_profile":[3554,3142,3295],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-306621","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-adult-children","category-anger-and-rebellion","tag-adult-children","podcast_series-relating-to-adult-children","cwp_profile-ann-wilson","cwp_profile-bob-lepine","cwp_profile-dave-wilson","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/306621\/maintaining-hope-when-your-kids-leave-the-faith","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/306621\/maintaining-hope-when-your-kids-leave-the-faith","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"YKqBE2e89Y\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/maintaining-hope-when-your-kids-leave-the-faith\/\">Maintaining Hope When Your Kids Leave the Faith<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/maintaining-hope-when-your-kids-leave-the-faith\/embed\/#?secret=YKqBE2e89Y\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Maintaining Hope When Your Kids Leave the Faith&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"YKqBE2e89Y\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg",508,508,false]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"kfairris@familylife.com","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/kfairrisfamilylife-com\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"If it looks like your son or daughter has abandoned their childhood faith, don't lose hope. Dave &amp; Ann Wilson, and Bob Lepine say, you can remain a steady influence in their lives.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2020-12-16.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Having a <em>great<\/em> relationship with your adult children may mean there are some things you choose not to talk much about. Here\u2019s Dave Wilson.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> We realized there are some topics we just don\u2019t bring up anymore unless they do; and even if they do, we\u2019re like, \u201cAre you sure you want to go there?\u201d because we <em>differ<\/em>. I\u2019ve seen, as we\u2019ve started to go there\u2014because I was na\u00efve; I would bring it up\u2014they came over next week: \u201cLet\u2019s go there again! We can punch a little bit into the darkness,\u201d\u2014you know?\u2014[Laughter]\u2014\u201cand finally, some light\u2019s going to come on.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI saw their spirit closing; and so I realized, \u201cOh, I need to be gentle, humble, love them, bear with them; and pray like crazy, and then let God work. Maybe it will come up later; but I\u2019m not going to be the one, often, to initiate it anymore.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Wednesday, December 16<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I'm Bob Lepine. You can find us online at FamilyLifeToday.com. If we\u2019re going to have a conversation with our adult children about certain topics, it\u2019s going to be very important that we know what to say, what not to say, when to say it, how to say it\u2014all of those things. We\u2019ll talk more about that today. Stay with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us on the Wednesday edition. We\u2019re spending time this week listening to a presentation we made a while back with a group of parents\u2014moms and dads who have adult kids\u2014talking about how we love, and pray for, and interact with our adult kids; because sometimes that can get challenging. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And it\u2019s a <em>timely<\/em> message.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014especially with the holidays right around the corner.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Because we\u2019re going to be together\u2014many of us are\u2014sadly, there are going to be some families that <em>aren\u2019t<\/em> together because they\u2019ve broken relationships, either because they\u2019re not in the same place spiritually or because something else has divided them. This year, politics has divided a lot of families, who have said, \u201cWe\u2019re not getting together with you, because we don\u2019t see eye to eye on politics.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I mean, it\u2019s sad; but it\u2019s real.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I mean, it\u2019s happened. I can see it happening in our family; opinions\/beliefs are really, really strong. To be able to navigate that, and love your kids, and be loved <em>by<\/em> your kids\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I like the idea\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014it\u2019s not easy.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014I like the idea of building bridges, though.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> There\u2019s always something we can cross that bridge on in relationship.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We\u2019re going to dive in and listen to the <em>last<\/em> part of our conversation on this subject; but before we do, a quick reminder to our listeners: we\u2019re asking you to prayerfully consider making a yearend contribution to <em>FamilyLife Today. <\/em>Your donations at yearend are vital. The good news is, this year, every donation you make is going to be matched, dollar for dollar, up to a total of $2 million. The next couple of weeks are pretty important for us as a ministry.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I would just say this: \u201cWe need you. It\u2019s real; we need you!\u201d I hope you feel like you need us, and we can be bringing hope and help to your family and your friends. I don\u2019t think you understand; for us to continue to do that, it\u2019s dependent on a partnership with you, financially and prayerfully. Without apology, I think this is one of the best ministries I\u2019ve ever seen; it\u2019s changed our life. Hopefully, it\u2019s changing you, and your family, and your legacy. That doesn\u2019t just happen; it doesn\u2019t just, you know, magically: \u201cPoof! Here it is.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> People like you say, \u201cI\u2019m in; I\u2019m committed. I\u2019m going to be a partner, and I\u2019m going to say to God, \u2018God, what do You want me to give?\u2019 and then I\u2019m going to give.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis year, as we close out the year, please join us. This is an invitation; but I\u2019m looking you in the eye and saying, \u201cJoin me.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; when you say, \u201cJoin me,\u201d\u2014the Lepines are donors to FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>; the Wilsons are donors to FamilyLife\u2014we make donations. The reason we make donations is because we believe that this ministry is having an impact in the lives of people.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I remember Dennis Rainey\u2014the first time I heard him say\u2014\u201cThe greatest evangelistic tool of the future is marriage.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And when people see a <em>great<\/em> marriage, I think they\u2019re wondering, \u201cHow do they have that?\u201d We have the answer to that; it\u2019s Jesus, and how He transforms our lives, our marriages, our families. And we really hope that you\u2019ll join us, because we want to continue doing that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You can donate, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY to make a yearend donation. Keep in mind, your donation is going to be matched, dollar for dollar, so there\u2019s no better time than right now to call or to go online and make a donation for <em>FamilyLife Today. <\/em>We do hope to hear from you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019re going to continue with a presentation we\u2019ve been listening to this week, where Dave and Ann and I have been talking to parents of adult kids about our relationship with our adult kids. One of the questions that had come up is: \u201cWhat do we do if our kids aren\u2019t walking with the Lord? We\u2019re not sure whether they really even know the Lord, at this point.\u201d That\u2019s where we jump in in this conversation.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Relating to Adult Children Panel]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Bob, what do you do? I mean, what if they <em>never<\/em>, never return?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, as long as there\u2019s breath, there\u2019s hope; and if they never return, you trust the Lord that the Lord is in control. We don\u2019t know about what happens in the moments before death; we can\u2019t presume. Here\u2019s what we know: \u201cGod is good all the time, and He is in control.\u201d We trust in Him; we walk by faith.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe also have to be on-guard against self-righteousness in our own lives. This is where I see a lot of parents, who will just put this wedge; and it\u2019s like, \u201cWell, you\u2019re not living this way, and you\u2019re not living this way\u2026\u201d And your kids could look at you and say, \u201cWell, what about you? I can point out the hypocrisy in <em>your<\/em> life.\u201d We\u2019ve got to be very careful. This is not, \u201cI\u2019m better than you.\u201d If your kids get that message, they will run from you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Instead, it\u2019s got to be, \u201cLook! I\u2019m just as messed up as you are. I know where to go when I need grace and help; I need the gospel just like you need the gospel.\u201d You\u2019ve got to keep coming back to that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tTwo verses that come to mind for me, when I think about kids who are off in sin, even if they profess faith\u2014the first is Galatians 6, verse 1, that says, \u201cIf anyone is caught in a trespass, you who are spiritual\u201d\u2014you are walking with the Lord\u2014you \u201cshould restore that one\u201d\u2014so the goal is not shame; it\u2019s restoration; the goal is to bring them back\u2014\u201cwith a spirit of\u201d\u2014what\u2019s the word?\u2014\u201cgentleness,\u201d\u2014and then, interesting\u2014\u201ckeep watch on yourself lest you, too, be tempted.\u201d That means there\u2019s humility and gentleness, the words we talked about before, in the midst of this. Galatians 6 says, if one of your kids is off in the weeds, you go seek to restore them with <em>gentleness<\/em>. If you can\u2019t be gentle, then you\u2019re not ready to go try to restore your kids; okay?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd then the other one that comes to mind\u2014this is 2 Timothy 2\u2014\u201cThe Lord\u2019s servant\u201d\u2014and this is all of us who are walking with the Lord\u2014\u201cmust not be quarrelsome, but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, correcting opponents with gentleness,\u201d\u2014do you see a theme here?\u2014\u201c God may perhaps grant them repentance, leading them to a knowledge of the truth. They may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil after being captured by him to do his will.\u201d I think \u201cgentleness\u201d is the operative word here when we\u2019ve got a kid who\u2019s off in the weeds; right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd then what do you do when you\u2019ve got a child, who professes faith, but they\u2019re living out their faith differently? They go to a church that you say, \u201cI would <em>never<\/em> go to that church.\u201d Do you have any kids like that?\u2014right?\u2014they\u2019ve picked a church that is not the one <em>you<\/em> would pick. I think this is where we\u2019ve got to keep in mind the words we were talking about, humility\/gentleness; but we also have to know: \u201cWhat is difference between what I call \u2018first-ring issues\u2019 and \u2018second-ring issues?\u2019\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere are some issues that are non-negotiables when it comes to the Christian faith; you don\u2019t bend on that. There are other things where we allow freedom with our brothers and sisters, and we might not agree: \u201cSo how do the spiritual gifts operate in our day?\u201d We\u2019ve got differing opinions on that, right here in this room; right? But we can get along and love one another, so can we do that with our kids on those secondary and tertiary issues?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> What would be a first-ring issue?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> A first-ring issue is that they believe there are many ways to God\u2014not just \u201cJesus is the only way.\u201d We\u2019d have to come back and say, \u201cThe Bible is really clear, so now you\u2019re going outside the Bible for wisdom.\u201d That would be an issue that we would say, \u201cThere\u2019s not unity in the Spirit around that.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> So what happens if your kids come home and this talk comes about at the table, and they\u2019re on that\/they\u2019re there; and you\u2019re like, \u201cNo; Jesus is the only Way.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Do you just avoid that conversation?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Gentleness is the operative word.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I would, in that situation, go, \u201cJust share with me how you came to that conclusion.\u201d I would start by asking questions: \u201cThat\u2019s really interesting; because as I\u2019ve read the Bible, I\u2019ve come to a different conclusion. How did you come to that conclusion?\u201d \u201cWell, I read this book by this guy, and he says that.\u201d I go, \u201cHuh; so what do you do\/or what does he do\u2014the guy in the book\u2014what does he do with John 14:6, \u2018I am the Way and the Truth and the Life; nobody comes to the Father but by Me\u2019? How do you reconcile that in your own mind?\u201d\u2014I mean, I\u2019m curious. I\u2019m not trying to fix him; I\u2019m not saying, \u201cWell, you know, John 14:6 says this\u2026!\u201d\u2014but just\u2014\u201cYou\u2019re a smart child; what do you do with that verse?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd then, after some questions, I go, \u201cWell, that\u2019s interesting. I\u2019m going to need to think about that some more.\u201d Just back off, and let the thing breathe a little bit. Let them know that they were heard, and we may pick it up two weeks from now\u2014or who knows when we\u2019d get a chance to pick it up\u2014but I\u2019m going to be very careful and not blow up the bridge\/the relationship bridge so I can never have another conversation with him about this.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So what about\u2014it\u2019s not theology\u2014it\u2019s more politics?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes, right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> There\u2019s a big one!\u2014or just morality or cultural differences with your kids.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; so look at this slide. This is evangelical Millennials and their views [compared to] their elders\u2014\u201cFavoring same-sex marriage\u201d: older evangelicals, only 23 percent; so if you were born before \u201981, 23 percent would favor same-sex marriage. If you\u2019re a Millennial, it\u2019s 45 percent\u2014\u201cHomosexuality should be accepted by society\u201d: 32 versus 51; I mean, there\u2019s a gap; isn\u2019t there? And some of you know this, because your kids are on different sides of this equation. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs we\u2019ve had these conversations with our kids, who are trying to figure it out for themselves and come up with their own way of embracing this or thinking about it, we\u2019ll have the conversation. I want to make sure that they know what I believe and why I believe it, and then I want to hear what they believe and why they believe it. I want to demonstrate some respect for that. Once we\u2019ve had that conversation, and we\u2019re kind of clear on where we are on that, we\u2019re not going to revisit that every time they\u2019re home for Thanksgiving dinner; right? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s good.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> There may be a time in the course of a year when I would say, \u201cI just read this article that I thought was really interesting; I\u2019d love your feedback on it\u201d; I\u2019ll send it to them. It\u2019s something that would represent my viewpoint that I know would conflict with their viewpoint: \u201cI\u2019m just curious what your take on this article is.\u201d It\u2019s always helpful when it\u2019s a third person, who\u2019s arguing your case, rather than you arguing your case; right? I do things like that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And I\u2019ve also found that you\u2019ve got to be careful with that. It\u2019s important, and you can do it strategically; but if they start seeing that happen every week\/it drops in their email; right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I said it earlier as a joke, but we\u2019ve realized there are some topics we just don\u2019t bring up anymore unless they do. Even if they do, we\u2019re like, \u201cAre you sure you want to go there?\u201d because we <em>differ<\/em>; and it\u2019s not helped it. I\u2019ve seen, as we\u2019ve started to go there\u2014because I was na\u00efve; I would bring it up\u2014they came over next week: \u201cLet\u2019s go there again! We can punch a little bit into the darkness;\u201d\u2014[Laughter]\u2014you know?\u2014\u201cand finally, some light\u2019s going to come on.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI saw their spirit closing; and so I realized, \u201cOh, I need to be gentle, humble, love them, bear with them; and pray like crazy.\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cand then let God work.\u201d Maybe it will come up later; but I\u2019m not going to be the one, often, to initiate it anymore.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> The other thing that makes it a little more complicated is when in-laws come into the picture. We have a son that we go there in conversations. I\u2019m fascinated by the way his mind works; he\u2019s intelligent\u2014he always has these great thoughts\/great ideas\u2014he reads a lot, and so we have these <em>great<\/em> conversations. Sometimes, they can even get loud; but we really appreciate one another, and how we\u2019re thinking. We\u2019re very truthful and honest, but humble and gentle.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, he gets married; and his wife sees us having this conversation, and she\u2019s so distraught; she\u2019s walking around the house. I said, \u201cRobin, what\u2019s wrong?\u201d She goes, \u201cI can\u2019t do this! What\u2019s happening?\u201d Because of her background, when she had those conversations with <em>her<\/em> parents, it was always: \u201c<em>This<\/em> is how you should believe\u201d; so she gets worked up.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And C.J., our son, is like, \u201cWe do this all the time! We <em>love<\/em> each other. This is <em>awesome<\/em>!\u201d It just changes the dynamics when you have your in-laws come into the picture.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You know, there may be some of you in the room, where we\u2019re not in agreement on issues of gender and sexuality; I mean, the country is divided. I wouldn\u2019t just presume that everybody on the <em>Love Like You Mean It<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> marriage cruise is thinking like I\u2019m thinking\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014about marriage or about sexuality. I\u2019d want to honor you; I\u2019d want to hear your views; I\u2019d want to be able to interact with you about that; and I\u2019d want, at the end of the time, that we would part and you would go, \u201cWe don\u2019t agree; but at least, there\u2019s respect there.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI was talking to a young woman recently, and here\u2019s the story she related to me: she said: \u201cMy cousin is getting married to her partner,\u201d\u2014same-sex marriage\u2014\u201cMy mom has said she\u2019s not going to the wedding. My older sister sent an email to all of the siblings and said, \u2018We need to confront Mom, because she\u2019s a homophone and a bigot.\u2019 And then the sister said, \u2018And I presume all of you are going to the wedding too.\u2019 And the sister said, \u2018I\u2019m never letting Mom watch my kids again by herself.\u2019\u201d This is the world that we\u2019re living in!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe younger sister, who had gotten this email, is reading this, going, \u201cWe\u2019re about to have a fractured, polarized family all around this issue; because one person in the family has really made this the litmus test of \u2018\u2026whether I can be friends with you.\u2019 I don\u2019t want my kids to think that there\u2019s a cultural, political, or even a biblical litmus test that puts them outside of a relationship with me; because I want to be able to have relationships with unbelievers or people who think differently than me, even if I\u2019m related to them\u201d; right? I think that\u2019s important for us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Well, you\u2019ve got your daughter, Amy\u2019s, comments about you in her book. It\u2019s really beautiful. Talk about that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Our daughter, Amy\u2014is our oldest daughter\u2014very bright. She\u2019s just written a second book; it\u2019s just come out. She sent me the manuscript ahead of time. Now, she sent it to all of her siblings and all of us. She said, \u201cIf you have time, I\u2019d love for you to read the manuscript; I\u2019d love your thoughts on it.\u201d I read the manuscript.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFirst, I wrote to her and said, \u201cHow would you like me to engage with your manuscript? Would you like me to read it critically, and would you like comments like I would do if it were any other author? I mean, I know you\u2019re not just any other author\u2014I\u2019m your dad; you\u2019re my daughter\u2014so comments from me are going to come differently than they\u2019d come from a professional colleague\u201d; right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tShe said, \u201cNo, Dad; gloves off. Talk about it.\u201d Well, I\u2019m still going to be gentle and humble in doing this; but I read her manuscript, and there was stuff in there I didn\u2019t agree with. I wrote her; and I would say, \u201cThe way you express this on Page 42 sounds like what you\u2019re saying is this\u2026There are going to be people, who read it this way; they\u2019re going to <em>think<\/em> what you believe is this\u2026Is that how you want to come across?\u2014is that really what you\u2019re trying to say?\u201d I had about nine pages of notes\u2014[Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Wow!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014going through it; I mean, I sent her a whole ton of stuff on this and just said, \u201cIf I\u2019m a garden-variety evangelical, this is how it\u2019s going to be read by evangelicals.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Bob, have you and Amy always had a pretty honest relationship? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We\u2019ve always had a good relationship\u2014been able to dialogue\u2014it\u2019s always been good; but I went and asked, \u201cHow do you want me to interact with it?\u201d And then I interacted with it; I sent it to her. She said, \u201cGot it; thanks!\u201d And that\u2019s the last conversation we had about it. [Laughter] And that\u2019s okay. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI didn\u2019t go back, and I didn\u2019t check and say, \u201cWell, did you fix that part I talked about in here?\u201d; right? She asked; she invited. I was the consultant; I gave her my thoughts. We still have a great relationship, even though there\u2019s stuff in the book that I read and go, \u201cYou think <em>that<\/em>?!\u201d I mean, she knows that! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> But I bet you also said a lot of good things about it as well.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I did; yes, I had chances to affirm stuff in there as well. When I got a copy of the book\u2014she sent us a copy of the book, and she didn\u2019t say anything\u2014I opened the book; I started looking through it. I got to the dedication page, and it\u2019s dedicated to me. I called her and I said, \u201cThank you. It\u2019s a sweet dedication. Thank you for that.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tShe said, \u201cWell, thanks for the way we\u2019ve interacted on this.\u201d And then she wrote a blog post, where she announced to the world, \u201cMy book is coming out. I dedicated it to my dad, and I want to tell you why.\u201d Here\u2019s what she said\u2014she said, \u201cPeople always ask, or often, ask me to write about my relationship with my parents, especially my dad. They want to know how we remain close\u2014when we are not politically aligned and when our theological inclinations diverge more every year\u2014and we are both publicly vocal Christians. The answer is grace; the rest of the answer is complicated.\u201d [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut she says, \u201cHere\u2019s part of it. When I was a teenager, Dad never discouraged my questions and never required my agreement. When I wrote an essay for an ACLU-sponsored essay contest, about whether schools should be allowed to search students\u2019 lockers\u201d\u2014of course, they should! [Laughter]\u2014\u201cI came to a different conclusion than Dad came to, but he respected my work and the argument I made.\u201d And I did!\u2014I just didn\u2019t agree with the conclusion she came to. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNumber two, she said, \u201cThat\u2019s a fairly impersonal example. It\u2019s probably safe to say that part of our solution is there are a number of things we simply don\u2019t talk about or, at least, we don\u2019t rehash over and over again. I think this has a lot to do with our mutual respect. We work to believe the best about each other\u2019s decision-making processes and intellectual integrity. Even more than that, it\u2019s the result of something Dad taught me when I was very young: \u2018In essentials, unity; in doubtful matters, liberty; and in all things, charity,\u2019\u201d\u2014you\u2019ve heard that before; right?\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014and that\u2019s back to first-ring, second-ring, third-ring\u2014\u201cIf Dad and I were disagreeing about a point in the Nicene Creed, that would be something to talk about; but in everything else, liberty and charity must reign. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNumber three, she said, \u201cDad read me stories nearly every night of my childhood: <em>Narnia, Betsy-Tacy, Little Women, Rebecca of Sunnybrook Farm, At the Back of the North Wind. <\/em>These stories opened my eyes to a world that was wider and more complicated than the one I knew so far. And he shared music and film with me, giving me Simon and Garfunkel and Joni Mitchell,\u201d\u2014okay, I\u2019m sorry; I\u2019m a child of the \u201860s\u2014right? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cTaking me to see the movie\u201d\u2014this is a longer story\u2014I took her to see <em>Good Will Hunting <\/em>her senior year in high school, even though I read online that it had the most F-bombs in it of any movie that had come out so far. She is a senior in high school; she says, \u201cCan I go see this? Everybody in my class has gone to see it,\u201d I\u2019m thinking, \u201cSix months from now, when she\u2019s in college, she\u2019s going to see any movie she wants!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I said, \u201cOkay; let\u2019s go together.\u201d About 20 minutes in, I\u2019m going, \u201cI should grab her and say, \u2018We\u2019re out of here!\u2019\u201d [Laughter] And then I thought, \u201cNo; you\u2019re a coach. Is this one\/are you going to bench her for this?\u201d We watched the whole thing. She said, \u201cHe took me to see <em>Good Will Hunting <\/em>when I was a senior in high school, because there were redemptive themes in it. Art and beauty bound us together as much as theology or biology did.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tShe said, \u201cHe taught me\u201d\u2014this is number four\u2014\u201cHe taught me that people would fail me, but Jesus wouldn\u2019t. So when Christian leaders disappointed me, I was shocked\u2014but not that shocked\u2014because I knew what my foundation was. And most of all,\u201d\u2014she said\u2014\u201cI\u2019ve never, for a minute, had any reason to doubt that he loves me unconditionally or that I\u2019m his favorite child. Sorry everyone else!\u201d [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd I\u2019ll tell you this\u2014with our kids, every time I was with them individually\u2014I would say to them, \u201cNow, listen, you\u2019re my favorite; don\u2019t tell your siblings; okay?\u201d [Laughter] I told it to all of them! And they <em>knew<\/em>; it got to be the family joke; so she\u2019s playing the family joke card. But I think there was something inside of them, where they\u2019re thinking, \u201cI think maybe I really am!\u201d [Laughter] I wanted them to believe that; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> That is <em>really<\/em> beautiful!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That is a beautiful tribute. [Applause]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It is; well done!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Studio]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, it\u2019s great to hear those words again. Even as I was sharing it with those families, that\u2019s what we long for; isn\u2019t it?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, Bob! I mean, I was teary, listening to that. That\u2019s what every parent <em>dreams<\/em> of.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I want to call my boys and say, \u201cWhy didn\u2019t you write me something like that?\u201d [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Because they haven\u2019t written a book! [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, again, we know how hard this is for parents and for a lot of adult children. I\u2019d encourage you to download the entire workshop that we did. The audio is available on our website at FamilyLifeToday.com. Maybe listen to a podcast that we did several months ago with our friend, Jim Burns; he\u2019s written a book called <em>Doing Life with Your Adult Children. <\/em>The subtitle\u2014we love the subtitle\u2014<em>Keep Your Mouth Shut and the Welcome Mat Out.<\/em> The link to the podcast is available on our website at FamilyLifeToday.com. You can also order the book from us online. Once again, the website is FamilyLifeToday.com. If you\u2019d like to call to order Jim\u2019s book, the number is 1-800-FL-TODAY\u20141-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHey, we have some Christmas gifts we would like to send you today. We\u2019ve been inviting <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>listeners to join us, here at yearend, to make as generous a donation as you can make to help support the ongoing work of this ministry. If you\u2019re able to help with a yearend donation, we\u2019d love to send you a copy of my book, <em>Love Like You Mean It, <\/em>that\u2019s all about how to apply the biblical understanding of love that we find in 1 Corinthians 13 to a marriage relationship\/what we can do to increase the love that we have for one another in marriage. We\u2019d also like to send you a flash drive that has more than 100 of the best of <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>from 28 years\u2014programs with Dennis and Barbara Rainey\/with Dave and Ann Wilson; guests we\u2019ve had on over the years; programs about marriage and parenting\u2014these are our thank-you gifts\/our thank-you Christmas gifts for you when you make a donation today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe good news, as we mentioned earlier\u2014when you donate, your donation is going to be matched, dollar for dollar, up to a total of $2 million. Your donation goes even further, here at yearend, when you donate today. You can donate, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to donate. Thanks, in advance, for whatever you\u2019re able to do. We appreciate you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we hope you can join us, again, tomorrow when we\u2019re going to hear a <em>powerful<\/em> story of a young woman, whose life and worldview was radically altered when she was confronted with the claims of Christ, while she was a student at Oxford. Carolyn Weber joins us tomorrow. I hope you can be here with us for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We\u2019ll see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2020 FamilyLife. 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