{"id":306615,"date":"2020-12-12T07:00:05","date_gmt":"2020-12-12T12:00:05","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/making-it-through-the-storms-of-life\/"},"modified":"2020-12-12T07:00:05","modified_gmt":"2020-12-12T12:00:05","slug":"making-it-through-the-storms-of-life","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-this-week\/making-it-through-the-storms-of-life\/","title":{"rendered":"Making it Through the Storms of Life"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>In this life you will have trouble, but take heart, I have overcome the world. Jesus gave these words of hope to his disciples before ascending into Heaven. We reflect on His words as we share &#8220;storm stories&#8221; of other believers, and how they walked through their own storms with hope in Christ alone.<br \/>\nShow Notes and Resources<\/p>\n<p> \tMore from John and Donna Bishop. https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/guest\/john-and-donna-bishop\/<br \/>\n \tDepression: A Stubborn Darkness with Ed Welch and Leslie Vernick.\u00a0 https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/series\/depression-a-stubborn-darkness\/<br \/>\n \tKara Tippetts&#8217; blog. https:\/\/www.mundanefaithfulness.com\/ and books including &#8220;Just Show Up&#8221; https:\/\/www.mundanefaithfulness.com\/books\/<br \/>\n \tCheck out all that&#8217;s available on the FamilyLife Podcast Network.\u00a0 https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/familylife-podcast-network\/<br \/>\n \tLearn more about becoming a Legacy Partner, a monthly supporter of FamilyLife. https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/legacy<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>We share &#8220;storm stories&#8221; of other believers, and how they walked through their own storms with hope in Christ alone.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":0,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/d2c17sq0nj1f7e.cloudfront.net\/flw2020-12-12.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:33:56","filesize":"31.06M","filesize_raw":"32572895","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2847,10442,2846,2860],"tags":[2216],"podcast_series":[],"cwp_profile":[9480,9004,9135,3229],"series":[10388],"class_list":["post-306615","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","hentry","category-death-and-dying","category-death-of-a-spouse","category-depression","category-hardship-and-suffering","tag-suffering","cwp_profile-chonda-pierce","cwp_profile-ed-welch","cwp_profile-john-and-donna-bishop","cwp_profile-leslie-vernick","series-familylife-this-week"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":false,"episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/10\/FLTW-Podcast-Cover-2-1400x1400-1-300x300-1.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/dts.podtrac.com\/redirect.mp3\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/306615\/making-it-through-the-storms-of-life","player_link":"https:\/\/dts.podtrac.com\/redirect.mp3\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/306615\/making-it-through-the-storms-of-life","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-this-week","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"xNOo8gubqL\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-this-week\/making-it-through-the-storms-of-life\/\">Making it Through the Storms of Life<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-this-week\/making-it-through-the-storms-of-life\/embed\/#?secret=xNOo8gubqL\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Making it Through the Storms of Life&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"xNOo8gubqL\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/flw\/flw2020-12-12.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/d2c17sq0nj1f7e.cloudfront.net\/flw2020-12-12.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> So what does life look like for you right now?\u2014is it sunshine and roses?\u2014or is there a storm brewing? Here is Chonda Pierce.\n\n<strong>Chonda:<\/strong> It\u2019s one thing to say how much you love Jesus when everything is going right and good. It\u2019s another to really feel His love when everything is going wrong; but it\u2019s when your heart is broken, and your feelings are raw, you go straight to the Word of God; and you have to trust that those words are true.\n\n<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> There is a saying: \u201cEvery storm eventually runs out of rain.\u201d We\u2019re going to talk about getting through the storms on this edition of <em>FamilyLife This Week<\/em>.\n\nWelcome to <em>FamilyLife This Week<\/em>. I\u2019m Michelle Hill. You know, I <em>love<\/em> a good thunderstorm. I love when it rolls and shakes the earth a little bit; but pretty soon, I\u2019m ready for it to get over with. I don\u2019t want it to last day in and day out. You know, suffering is like that; most of us want it to be over pretty quick. Paul, the writer of Romans in the Bible\/he says, \u201cRejoice in our sufferings knowing that suffering produces endurance,\u00a0 endurance produces character, character produces hope.\u201d That hope\u2014it doesn\u2019t disappoint.\n\nA while back, Dennis Rainey and Bob Lepine talked with a couple who had one of those stories. Now, this is an <em>amazing<\/em> story; I\u2019ve never heard one like it. This story is about John and Donna Bishop, who have been married for over 40 years. They have raised three sons. The Bishops live near Heber Springs, Arkansas, where John is a pastor. You\u2019ve heard the saying: \u201cChanged in the blink of an eye\u201d; well, the Bishops know that well.\n\n[Previous <em>FamilyLife <\/em>Today<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> Interview]\n\n<strong>Donna:<\/strong> We were pastoring a church there in Heber Springs, and we had a good church. I say it was a perfect life. You know, everything was great; we were just having a great time serving the Lord. All of a sudden, that night, he got sick. He was sitting in his rocking chair; he had his devotions over in the rocking chair. He just kept sitting and sitting there; I went over and shook him. He couldn\u2019t wake up\u2014he couldn\u2019t\u2014he was just kind of staring off. I said, \u201cJohn, what\u2019s the matter, John?\u201d I was talking to him; he just couldn\u2019t answer me.\n\n<strong>John:<\/strong> When I woke up from meningitis, I did not know her. I didn\u2019t know me\/my name. I didn\u2019t know\u2014I really didn\u2019t know anything. I had a very unusual case of amnesia. I didn\u2019t just forget names and people; I forgot everything. I didn\u2019t know what words were; that\u2019s why I couldn\u2019t read or write. I remember, when she told me what the Bible was\u2014see, I didn\u2019t know what I was either\u2014I said, \u201cWhat am I?\u201d She said, \u201cYou\u2019re a preacher.\u201d I said, \u201cWhat a preacher is?\u201d [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Donna:<\/strong> I kept thinking, \u201cOkay, now, he\u2019ll get it back.\u201d He didn\u2019t remember marriage or wedding, so I get a photo album out. I said, \u201cDon\u2019t you remember?\u201d I tried to trick him to see, \u201cOkay; I <em>know<\/em> he can remember <em>something<\/em>.\u201d We just\/I just kept <em>trying<\/em> to go back and\u2014but he just doesn\u2019t have anything.\n\n<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Now, what our listeners don\u2019t know is the length of time this story took. I mean, we\u2019re not talking about 30 days in rehab, back to John getting to normal. John, give our listeners an idea here of the timeline we\u2019re talking about here.\n\n<strong>John:<\/strong> Well, for several weeks, she had to do <em>everything<\/em> for me. You know what I mean\u2014I say <em>everything<\/em>\u2014I was like a baby. This went on for weeks and weeks. Like I say, it took me near two years to where I could walk. I had to work at, work at, and so forth; but it was just <em>incredible<\/em> how good she was to me. I remember one day, she finishing cleaning me up again. I look at her; I say, \u201cDonna, why so good to me?\u201d\n\nShe said, \u201cWell, two reasons.\u201d I said, \u201cWhat that?\u201d She said, \u201cOne, I promised I would.\u201d I said, \u201cPromise? I don\u2019t remember promise.\u201d She went and got our marriage vows, and she brought them. She said, \u201cJohn, we got married. I said, \u2018\u2026in sickness and health\/better or worse.\u2019\u201d I remember I said, \u201cDonna, I\u2019m so sorry at this worse but thank you keeping promise. Thank you.\u201d\n\nThen, she said, \u201cBut second reason is\u201d\u2014and she gave me big hug\u2014and says, \u201cI <em>love<\/em> you.\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> John, when you started losing your eyesight, eight months ago, you had to think, \u201cLord, haven\u2019t I had enough? I mean, couldn\u2019t we just keep the eyes? That would sure be helpful.\u201d\n\n<strong>John:<\/strong> Yes; oh, Bob, that was one of the biggest struggles. I should have been able to ace that one after what I\u2019ve been through; but I tell you\u2014I struggled. At first, I couldn\u2019t believe it happening. I thought, \u201cSurely not.\u201d Then I thought, \u201cOh, this just be two\/three week; and the Lord say, \u201cOkay; I just testing you\u201d; but it went on, and on, and on.\n\nI remember I tell God, \u201cOkay; Lord, not my will, Thine be done.\u201d Then I had to tell Him, \u201cI sorry, Lord. I didn\u2019t mean it,\u201d\u2014like I needed to tell Him; but I mean, I knew I would just saying the words\u2014\u201cOh, God, I\u2019m so sorry.\u201d I finally got a point, \u201cOkay, God; if You want the eyes too, that is okay. I really do mean it.\u201d That really was a big struggle for me. I should have been stronger, but I wasn\u2019t.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You know, the name of your ministry\u2014\n\n<strong>John:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> God Is So Good Ministries.\n\n<strong>John:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> John, some of our listeners are going to hear this and say, \u201cHow can you, with all you\u2019ve been through, testify to the <em>goodness<\/em> of God? If God was good, why would He <em>allow<\/em> all of this to happen to <em>you<\/em>?\u201d\n\n<strong>John:<\/strong> Yes; those questions were going through my mind. I needed to get hold of something; the truth I got hold of. I was listening to Bible on tape; but I really loved the Book of Psalms, because David been through some trials too. He kept saying, though, \u201cThe Lord is good,\u201d\u2014I\u2019m not saying that all that God is: He is also holy; and He is just; and He is righteous\u2014but the two things that stand out to me is He is good and He is right, no matter what happens. He is <em>always<\/em> good, and He\u2019s <em>always<\/em> right.\n\nOur God put Himself through pain when He gave His Son. They say one of the greatest pains a person can go through is the death of a child; but yet, He let Him go through greatest pain anybody ever through because something better. Now, I don\u2019t have to know what all the better is; but I know I can trust this God because He let Himself hurt. Jesus suffered more than any of us will ever know; and if God love His Son, and let Him go through that, because He knew something better for everybody, I\u2019m going to trust Him that He got something better for me and everybody too. You can trust a God like that, because He is a good God.\n\n[Studio]\n\n<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Oh! Can you imagine losing everything and having to retrain and relearn <em>everything<\/em>? It\u2019s almost a Job-like suffering. He had to learn the patience of Job, and to have faith, and trust that God would work, and heal, and redeem His life. That\u2019s hard to have that Job-like faith.\n\nYou know, even\u2014there are some kinds of sufferings that we don\u2019t understand, like depression. We\u2019re going to talk about depression. A while back, Ed Welch and Leslie Vernick had a chance to sit down with Bob and Dennis. Ed\u2019s been a counselor for over 30 years, and he\u2019s also the author of <em>Depression: Looking up from the Stubborn Darkness<\/em>. Leslie Vernick is a clinical licensed social worker; and she has written the book, <em>Getting Over the Blues<\/em>. Now, Ed knows, firsthand, what it is like to live with someone who has depression; here he is explaining life with his dad.\n\n[Previous <em>FamilyLife <\/em>Today Interview]\n\n<strong>Ed:<\/strong> I grew up with a man, who went through some of the early shock treatments in the United States. I had an opportunity to see depression fairly consistently\u2014episodes that were very deep, at least, a couple of times a year\u2014but I had a man who lived before me a persistent, preserving faith in the midst of those difficulties.\n\n<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> How was he heroic?\n\n<strong>Ed:<\/strong> He was heroic in the sense that his faith, <em>unbelievably<\/em>, didn\u2019t seem to falter in the midst of that\u2014which if people, who are depressed, they would find that heroic as well. As I see other people, who struggle with depression, that word, \u201cheroic,\u201d comes up to me all the time; because to seek, in a meek and humble way\/to try to see Christ in the midst of that kind of pain is\u2014demands a kind of faith that very few people have.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So when a person\u2014I mean, here is how we normally think: \u201cI\u2019m a Christian. I\u2019m experiencing depression. Those two should not go together; because \u2018The joy of the Lord is my strength.\u2019 I should be rejoicing in the Lord always\u2014\u2018Again, I say rejoice,\u2019\u2014all of these statements\u2014\u2018The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy\u2026\u2019\u201d We keep hearing\/we think a Christian ought to be one whose life is characterized by joy: \u201cIf I\u2019m not feeling that\/if I\u2019m not experiencing that, is there something spiritually wrong with me?\u201d\n\n<strong>Leslie:<\/strong> Well, James tells us that we are to consider it all joy whenever we face troubles. If we face depression, how do we face it with joy? I\u2019ll just do kind of a silly example; but when you are working out at the gym, nobody finds that pleasurable, for the most part. If you\u2019re working hard enough, you\u2019re not finding it pleasurable.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Amen!\n\n<strong>Leslie:<\/strong> You\u2019re suffering.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Amen!\n\n<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Bob, you\u2019ve never even been to the gym. [Laughter] Don\u2019t act like you\u2019ve been there and experienced that. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Leslie:<\/strong> The way I kind of get my hands around this concept of joy is what keeps you enduring in the midst of that suffering is that mindset that something good is happening in you. You\u2019re developing\u2014\n\n<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014that there is purpose.\n\n<strong>Leslie:<\/strong> \u2014there is purpose; you\u2019re developing strength; you\u2019re developing muscle. Even if it\u2019s for vanity\u2019s sake, you are developing something inside of you; but spiritually, James uses that metaphor to help us to understand that joy isn\u2019t this pleasurable, emotional high. It\u2019s an inner sense of calm; it\u2019s an inner sense of knowing that something good is happening in the midst of great suffering.\n\n<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You know, one of the things that, as we talk about depression, that hit me as I was reading both of your books, is depression is a form of suffering.\n\nNow, Ed, I want to take you back to your dad. How did you see your dad suffer well?\u2014because ultimately, that\u2019s what you\u2019re saying he did and how he practiced an heroic faith.\n\n<strong>Ed:<\/strong> One, he would ask for help. Believe it or not, he would ask me, as a teenager, for help. He would ask me, as a teenager, to pray for him in the midst of his depression and feeling so miserable, which\u2014I mean, how many fathers ask their son\/how many fathers have the humility to ask their son to help them in such a way? That\u2019s certainly one thing that I saw.\n\nI mentioned his outward-ness. There was a persistent generosity in my father, financial and in terms of time, to people. This is not unusual to people, who were miserable people: miserable in that they <em>felt<\/em> miserable or their circumstances were miserable. He had a keen eye for people who felt like that.\n\nOne big old man I had a chance to speak to\u2014a 75-year-old man\u2014he has been depressed his <em>entire<\/em> life. There was the kind of person\u2014you want to talk to him and just glean the wisdom he has received\u2014his wisdom was really fairly simple. The question was: \u201cWhy did you get up every morning?\u201d He said, \u201cThe reason I got up every morning was because I was called to love people, and I would look to love somebody every single day.\u201d There, you want to take your shoes off and say, \u201cI\u2019m on holy ground.\n\n<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Ed:<\/strong> \u201cThe Spirit is here.\u201d\n\n<strong>Leslie:<\/strong> Well, certainly, I think that one of the things that depression does\u2014and Ed, you speak to this quite well in your book\u2014is that it really turns a person in on themselves. They become overly analytical\/overly introspective. They examine every flaw that they have in life and everything that is wrong with them; but God wants us to look outward, fixing our eyes on <em>Christ<\/em>. Jesus did that as our example, so we\u2019re to do that as well.\n\n<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Whether it\u2019s steps or whether it\u2019s strategies, both of you write about this. I\u2019d like to explore some that you talk about in both of your books. Ed, you have\u2014I\u2019m looking here; you have 20 practical strategies that really appeal to me, as a man,\u2014\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014as a fixer. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014who wants to fix it. [Laughter]\n\nNow, I know we\u2019re laughing about it, and I know we\u2019re not just going to fix it; but there really are some good practical helps here. Again, Leslie, you have steps; so I want both of you to just share some practical strategies and steps.\n\n<strong>Ed:<\/strong> Right; these strategies come from people, who have been depressed; so they\u2019ve been used by folks. Here is one: \u201cBe suspicious of how you feel. Be suspicious of how you feel.\u201d In other words: \u201cI <em>feel<\/em> like nobody loves me,\u201d \u201cI <em>feel<\/em> like God doesn\u2019t love me.\u201d Feelings\u2014when they are as pronounced as they are in depression\u2014they demand our allegiance; they demand some sort of interpretive power. \u201cI <em>feel<\/em> like no one loves me,\u201d <em>becomes<\/em> \u201cNo one loves me.\u201d There is a <em>huge<\/em> difference between the two.\n\nSo number one: \u201cHow can we be <em>suspicious<\/em> of how we\u2019re feeling?\u201d Here is something, again, that demands great faith. How can we bring a humility to the process?\u2014because depression is saying: \u201cThere is no hope,\u201d \u201cThere is no purpose,\u201d \u201cThere is no joy.\u201d Essentially, what we\u2019re doing is\u2014we\u2019re asking the person to have a <em>protest<\/em> against that and to say, \u201c<em>No<\/em>! There is hope; there is purpose; there is joy.\u201d That protest <em>demands<\/em> immense humility.\n\n<strong>Leslie:<\/strong> One of the things dovetailing on Ed\u2019s strategy is\u2014I talk about our heart being comprised of our feelings, which is important to recognize; but also, the thought\/feeling connection; because for example, the psalmist says in Psalm 55:2, \u201cMy thoughts trouble me, and I am distraught.\u201d Our thoughts affect our feelings. When a person <em>feels<\/em> like they are abandoned, it\u2019s because they are thinking that they have been abandoned. It\u2019s very important for us to understand that, just because we <em>think<\/em> something is true, it doesn\u2019t necessarily make it true. God\u2019s Word is our plumb line for truth.\n\nEven the Israelites felt abandoned by God in Isaiah 49, because they were telling themselves that God abandoned them. God took pains in that passage of Scripture to say, \u201cThough you think this, it\u2019s not true.\u201d It\u2019s very important for us to be able to understand that our heart can deceive us, and our thoughts and our feelings; and also, our heart is comprised of our will. That\u2019s where the psalmist says, \u201cAs for me, I will\u2026\u201d So partly, learning to battle depression is an exercise in strengthening our will so that we can begin to say, \u201cAs for me, I will continue to have hope in God.\u201d\n\n[Studio]\n\n<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> That was Leslie Vernick, along with Ed Welch, talking to us about the pain and suffering of walking through depression.\n\nYou know, I\u2019ve been reading a book lately; it\u2019s called <em>Just Show Up: The Dance of Walking through Suffering Together<\/em>. What is hard for me is knowing: \u201cHow to help during these times?\u201d You see, I\u2019m a fixer; I\u2019m a get \u2019er done. What I\u2019m learning, from some of <em>my<\/em> struggles, and also from this book I\u2019ve been reading, is that relationship is <em>so<\/em> important. Sometimes, it\u2019s not about helping or fixing; it\u2019s just about being there\/about showing up. We\u2019re going to talk more about this on the other side of the break. I\u2019ll be chatting with a lady, who knows a lot about suffering and depression; yet, she can still laugh at the days to come.\n\n<strong>Chonda:<\/strong> \u201cHowwddyy\u201d [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Chonda Pierce joins us next on <em>FamilyLife This Week<\/em>; so stay tuned.\n\n[Radio Station Spot Break]\n\n<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Welcome back to <em>FamilyLife This Week<\/em>. I\u2019m Michelle Hill. I am <em>excited<\/em> today; I am on the phone with Chonda Pierce. Chonda is America\u2019s number-one female comedian, and she\u2019s been making audiences <em>laugh<\/em> for decades. She\u2019s written eight books, including, <em>Laughing in the Dark<\/em>. Last fall, her movie entitled, also, <em>Laughing in the Dark<\/em> came out. Chonda, you are one busy lady; that\u2019s for sure. [Laughter]\n\nBefore we get totally started here, can you give us your Minnie Pearl impersonation? [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Chonda:<\/strong> Oh, I might make the dogs come running. I haven\u2019t done this in a while; okay? Everybody hold your ears: \u201cHowwddyy!\u201d [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Well, you are known for your sass and your wit, but I\u2019m going to turn the corner here and just ask you a question: \u201cThese last five years\u2014\n\n<strong>Chonda:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cthey haven\u2019t been that easy on you, and you\u2019ve\u2014\n\n<strong>Chonda:<\/strong> No, no; they haven\u2019t.\n\n<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cwalked through some <em>hard<\/em>, <em>hard<\/em>, deep waters. Can you tell us about that?\u201d\n\n<strong>Chonda:<\/strong> I grew up in church. You know, as a teenager, I lost both of my sisters; my parents divorced. I thought that was the extent of my pain and dysfunction for all time. Then the last five years, I\u2019ve lost my mother; and my husband spiraled heavily into addiction. I think a lot of the beginning of that, for his pain, was just a trauma we had at home with one of our kids and a great disappointment that families go through with stuff like that.\n\nMy foundation was, thank God, the Word of God was just so deep and heavy in my heart, even though I\u2019m not a perfect Christian; but I just knew where to run when it got bad. I thank the Lord for that. My mother passed away; I became very estranged from a child of mine; and then my husband died. It\/I have been through some stuff\u2014I tell you, Michelle\u2014but losing my husband has been <em>the<\/em> <em>hardest<\/em> thing I have ever faced in my life.\n\n<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> I bet.\n\n<strong>Chonda:<\/strong> It has been a trial like none other, and it\u2019s given me a sweet love and appreciation for those who are widowed and how they navigate life again. You know, it\u2019s like a\u2014it\u2019s like finding out who you are all over again.\n\n<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Oh, yes.\n\n<strong>Chonda:<\/strong> For 31 years, I was the wife of a sweet man, named David, and a teacher. He was a teacher, and he was my children\u2019s father, and just the greatest best friend I\u2019ve ever had. Now, I have to figure out: \u201cWho is Chonda Pierce alone?\u201d\n\n<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> That\u2019s so hard. Because, even though our identity is supposed to always be found in Christ, it\u2019s <em>hard<\/em> because we do take on identities of those around us or our roles in life and who we are; and you were his wife. You were David Pierce\u2019s wife.\n\n<strong>Chonda:<\/strong> Yes; that was my\u2014you know on the road, I\u2019m Chonda Pierce, the comedian; it\u2019s great\u2014but I\/as much as I love my job, I don\u2019t live for ya\u2019ll. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Now, Chonda, today on the show we\u2019ve been talking about suffering, and we\u2019ve talked about depression. Can you help us understand how to come alongside those, who are walking in those dark valleys?\n\n<strong>Chonda:<\/strong> Sometimes, you don\u2019t have to have a verse, or an answer, or a cheer. Sometimes, just sit with somebody. Go\u2014\n\n<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Chonda:<\/strong> \u2014have a meal together.\n\n<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> That\u2019s great.\n\n<strong>Chonda:<\/strong> Just take a walk; you know? It\u2019s the presence of another body in the room that is so tender for that person to just be able to have fellowship with. I think, sometimes, we are intimidated by the broken person; that\u2019s because we\u2019re afraid we\u2019re not going to have the right words. You don\u2019t need to have the right words; you just need to be the right ears, and that changes everything.\n\nI just can remember\u2014my sweet brother is a wonderful counselor and psychologist\u2014and I\u2019m so lucky to have him. He, of course, still charges me; but that\u2019s a whole \u2018nother story. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> He\u2019s family! He\u2019s family! [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Chonda:<\/strong> I don\u2019t get a family discount. [Laughter] What\u2019s so sweet is there have been times he will come by; and he\u2019ll just say, \u201cI didn\u2019t have anything to say or do. Just wanted to sit with you for a little while\u201d; you know? We\u2019ll sit, or we\u2019ll take a walk in the woods out on the farm; and man, that\u2019s such a blessing. That\u2019s the key\u2014is just be\u2014\n\n<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Chonda:<\/strong> \u2014just be with someone.\n\nWhen you can figure\/when you can <em>allow<\/em> yourself to do that, then being around the broken person, or the person who is struggling with depression or grief, then, it\u2019s like, \u201cOkay; that\u2019s easy. I can do that.\u201d But we get so afraid there\u2019s\/that we\u2019ve got to do, do, do something to help them through it. Sometimes, just time is all that will help them through it. Give them time, and you just be there; you know?\n\n<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> That is <em>great<\/em> advice. Well, Chonda, thank you <em>so much<\/em> for bringing some sparkle, and life, and joy. I know that those, who go to your concerts, they leave, giggling and laughing. There is just a lightness\/a lightness that happens that God brings through you.\n\n<strong>Chonda:<\/strong> I pray that, and I <em>love<\/em> my job for that very reason. Depression\/you know, I suffer from clinical depression. I always tell people every night, \u201cThe healing power of Jesus and 150 milligram Effexor made this night possible.\u201d [Laughter] It\u2019s true, but what you have to start to rely on is the black and white\u2014is just the written page\u2014because when your heart is broken, and your feelings are raw, you go straight to the Word of God; and then you have to trust that those words are true, because you cannot live by emotions.\n\n<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Amen.\n\n<strong>Chonda:<\/strong> Amen.\n\n<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Chonda, it was such a joy and an honor to talk with you today.\n\n<strong>Chonda:<\/strong> Have a wonderful day.\n\n<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Bye, bye.\n\nThat was Chonda Pierce. What a joy! She knows how to spin laughter into those tough situations.\n\nHey, this Christmas, FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> has a <em>special<\/em> gift just for you. It\u2019s <em>really<\/em> easy; it\u2019s the FamilyLife app. You can get it wherever you get your favorite apps at the app store. Download that app; open it up; and at your fingertips are all the podcasts on the FamilyLife Podcast Network. There are helpful articles there; there are other great resources. And here\u2019s the best part: it\u2019s free; but yet, the value of the content is <em>priceless<\/em>. This is our Christmas gift for you; it\u2019s the FamilyLife app.\n\nHey, also at Christmastime, it\u2019s the time where we: \u201cDeck the halls with boughs of holly, fa la la la la la la la.\u201d Well, if you are in a blended family, or you know one, you know that Christmases can be a hard season to deck those halls. Well, Ron Deal is going to join me next week; and he is going to help us prepare our hearts for this Christmas season. I hope you can join us for that.\n\nThanks for listening! I want to thank the president of FamilyLife, David Robbins, along with our station partners around the country. And a big \u201cThank you!\u201d to our engineer today, Keith Lynch. Thanks to our producers, Marques Holt and Phil Krause. Justin\n\nAdams is our mastering engineer, and Megan Martin is our production coordinator.\n\nOur program is a production of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, and our mission is to effectively develop godly families who change the world one home at a time.\n\nI'm Michelle Hill, inviting you to join us again next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife This Week<\/em>.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\nWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\nCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2020 FamilyLife. 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share \"storm stories\" of other believers, and how they walked through their own storms with hope in Christ alone.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/flw\/flw2020-12-12.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> So what does life look like for you right now?\u2014is it sunshine and roses?\u2014or is there a storm brewing? Here is Chonda Pierce.\n\n<strong>Chonda:<\/strong> It\u2019s one thing to say how much you love Jesus when everything is going right and good. It\u2019s another to really feel His love when everything is going wrong; but it\u2019s when your heart is broken, and your feelings are raw, you go straight to the Word of God; and you have to trust that those words are true.\n\n<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> There is a saying: \u201cEvery storm eventually runs out of rain.\u201d We\u2019re going to talk about getting through the storms on this edition of <em>FamilyLife This Week<\/em>.\n\nWelcome to <em>FamilyLife This Week<\/em>. I\u2019m Michelle Hill. You know, I <em>love<\/em> a good thunderstorm. I love when it rolls and shakes the earth a little bit; but pretty soon, I\u2019m ready for it to get over with. I don\u2019t want it to last day in and day out. You know, suffering is like that; most of us want it to be over pretty quick. Paul, the writer of Romans in the Bible\/he says, \u201cRejoice in our sufferings knowing that suffering produces endurance,\u00a0 endurance produces character, character produces hope.\u201d That hope\u2014it doesn\u2019t disappoint.\n\nA while back, Dennis Rainey and Bob Lepine talked with a couple who had one of those stories. Now, this is an <em>amazing<\/em> story; I\u2019ve never heard one like it. This story is about John and Donna Bishop, who have been married for over 40 years. They have raised three sons. The Bishops live near Heber Springs, Arkansas, where John is a pastor. You\u2019ve heard the saying: \u201cChanged in the blink of an eye\u201d; well, the Bishops know that well.\n\n[Previous <em>FamilyLife <\/em>Today<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> Interview]\n\n<strong>Donna:<\/strong> We were pastoring a church there in Heber Springs, and we had a good church. I say it was a perfect life. You know, everything was great; we were just having a great time serving the Lord. All of a sudden, that night, he got sick. He was sitting in his rocking chair; he had his devotions over in the rocking chair. He just kept sitting and sitting there; I went over and shook him. He couldn\u2019t wake up\u2014he couldn\u2019t\u2014he was just kind of staring off. I said, \u201cJohn, what\u2019s the matter, John?\u201d I was talking to him; he just couldn\u2019t answer me.\n\n<strong>John:<\/strong> When I woke up from meningitis, I did not know her. I didn\u2019t know me\/my name. I didn\u2019t know\u2014I really didn\u2019t know anything. I had a very unusual case of amnesia. I didn\u2019t just forget names and people; I forgot everything. I didn\u2019t know what words were; that\u2019s why I couldn\u2019t read or write. I remember, when she told me what the Bible was\u2014see, I didn\u2019t know what I was either\u2014I said, \u201cWhat am I?\u201d She said, \u201cYou\u2019re a preacher.\u201d I said, \u201cWhat a preacher is?\u201d [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Donna:<\/strong> I kept thinking, \u201cOkay, now, he\u2019ll get it back.\u201d He didn\u2019t remember marriage or wedding, so I get a photo album out. I said, \u201cDon\u2019t you remember?\u201d I tried to trick him to see, \u201cOkay; I <em>know<\/em> he can remember <em>something<\/em>.\u201d We just\/I just kept <em>trying<\/em> to go back and\u2014but he just doesn\u2019t have anything.\n\n<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Now, what our listeners don\u2019t know is the length of time this story took. I mean, we\u2019re not talking about 30 days in rehab, back to John getting to normal. John, give our listeners an idea here of the timeline we\u2019re talking about here.\n\n<strong>John:<\/strong> Well, for several weeks, she had to do <em>everything<\/em> for me. You know what I mean\u2014I say <em>everything<\/em>\u2014I was like a baby. This went on for weeks and weeks. Like I say, it took me near two years to where I could walk. I had to work at, work at, and so forth; but it was just <em>incredible<\/em> how good she was to me. I remember one day, she finishing cleaning me up again. I look at her; I say, \u201cDonna, why so good to me?\u201d\n\nShe said, \u201cWell, two reasons.\u201d I said, \u201cWhat that?\u201d She said, \u201cOne, I promised I would.\u201d I said, \u201cPromise? I don\u2019t remember promise.\u201d She went and got our marriage vows, and she brought them. She said, \u201cJohn, we got married. I said, \u2018\u2026in sickness and health\/better or worse.\u2019\u201d I remember I said, \u201cDonna, I\u2019m so sorry at this worse but thank you keeping promise. Thank you.\u201d\n\nThen, she said, \u201cBut second reason is\u201d\u2014and she gave me big hug\u2014and says, \u201cI <em>love<\/em> you.\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> John, when you started losing your eyesight, eight months ago, you had to think, \u201cLord, haven\u2019t I had enough? I mean, couldn\u2019t we just keep the eyes? That would sure be helpful.\u201d\n\n<strong>John:<\/strong> Yes; oh, Bob, that was one of the biggest struggles. I should have been able to ace that one after what I\u2019ve been through; but I tell you\u2014I struggled. At first, I couldn\u2019t believe it happening. I thought, \u201cSurely not.\u201d Then I thought, \u201cOh, this just be two\/three week; and the Lord say, \u201cOkay; I just testing you\u201d; but it went on, and on, and on.\n\nI remember I tell God, \u201cOkay; Lord, not my will, Thine be done.\u201d Then I had to tell Him, \u201cI sorry, Lord. I didn\u2019t mean it,\u201d\u2014like I needed to tell Him; but I mean, I knew I would just saying the words\u2014\u201cOh, God, I\u2019m so sorry.\u201d I finally got a point, \u201cOkay, God; if You want the eyes too, that is okay. I really do mean it.\u201d That really was a big struggle for me. I should have been stronger, but I wasn\u2019t.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You know, the name of your ministry\u2014\n\n<strong>John:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> God Is So Good Ministries.\n\n<strong>John:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> John, some of our listeners are going to hear this and say, \u201cHow can you, with all you\u2019ve been through, testify to the <em>goodness<\/em> of God? If God was good, why would He <em>allow<\/em> all of this to happen to <em>you<\/em>?\u201d\n\n<strong>John:<\/strong> Yes; those questions were going through my mind. I needed to get hold of something; the truth I got hold of. I was listening to Bible on tape; but I really loved the Book of Psalms, because David been through some trials too. He kept saying, though, \u201cThe Lord is good,\u201d\u2014I\u2019m not saying that all that God is: He is also holy; and He is just; and He is righteous\u2014but the two things that stand out to me is He is good and He is right, no matter what happens. He is <em>always<\/em> good, and He\u2019s <em>always<\/em> right.\n\nOur God put Himself through pain when He gave His Son. They say one of the greatest pains a person can go through is the death of a child; but yet, He let Him go through greatest pain anybody ever through because something better. Now, I don\u2019t have to know what all the better is; but I know I can trust this God because He let Himself hurt. Jesus suffered more than any of us will ever know; and if God love His Son, and let Him go through that, because He knew something better for everybody, I\u2019m going to trust Him that He got something better for me and everybody too. You can trust a God like that, because He is a good God.\n\n[Studio]\n\n<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Oh! Can you imagine losing everything and having to retrain and relearn <em>everything<\/em>? It\u2019s almost a Job-like suffering. He had to learn the patience of Job, and to have faith, and trust that God would work, and heal, and redeem His life. That\u2019s hard to have that Job-like faith.\n\nYou know, even\u2014there are some kinds of sufferings that we don\u2019t understand, like depression. We\u2019re going to talk about depression. A while back, Ed Welch and Leslie Vernick had a chance to sit down with Bob and Dennis. Ed\u2019s been a counselor for over 30 years, and he\u2019s also the author of <em>Depression: Looking up from the Stubborn Darkness<\/em>. Leslie Vernick is a clinical licensed social worker; and she has written the book, <em>Getting Over the Blues<\/em>. Now, Ed knows, firsthand, what it is like to live with someone who has depression; here he is explaining life with his dad.\n\n[Previous <em>FamilyLife <\/em>Today Interview]\n\n<strong>Ed:<\/strong> I grew up with a man, who went through some of the early shock treatments in the United States. I had an opportunity to see depression fairly consistently\u2014episodes that were very deep, at least, a couple of times a year\u2014but I had a man who lived before me a persistent, preserving faith in the midst of those difficulties.\n\n<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> How was he heroic?\n\n<strong>Ed:<\/strong> He was heroic in the sense that his faith, <em>unbelievably<\/em>, didn\u2019t seem to falter in the midst of that\u2014which if people, who are depressed, they would find that heroic as well. As I see other people, who struggle with depression, that word, \u201cheroic,\u201d comes up to me all the time; because to seek, in a meek and humble way\/to try to see Christ in the midst of that kind of pain is\u2014demands a kind of faith that very few people have.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So when a person\u2014I mean, here is how we normally think: \u201cI\u2019m a Christian. I\u2019m experiencing depression. Those two should not go together; because \u2018The joy of the Lord is my strength.\u2019 I should be rejoicing in the Lord always\u2014\u2018Again, I say rejoice,\u2019\u2014all of these statements\u2014\u2018The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy\u2026\u2019\u201d We keep hearing\/we think a Christian ought to be one whose life is characterized by joy: \u201cIf I\u2019m not feeling that\/if I\u2019m not experiencing that, is there something spiritually wrong with me?\u201d\n\n<strong>Leslie:<\/strong> Well, James tells us that we are to consider it all joy whenever we face troubles. If we face depression, how do we face it with joy? I\u2019ll just do kind of a silly example; but when you are working out at the gym, nobody finds that pleasurable, for the most part. If you\u2019re working hard enough, you\u2019re not finding it pleasurable.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Amen!\n\n<strong>Leslie:<\/strong> You\u2019re suffering.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Amen!\n\n<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Bob, you\u2019ve never even been to the gym. [Laughter] Don\u2019t act like you\u2019ve been there and experienced that. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Leslie:<\/strong> The way I kind of get my hands around this concept of joy is what keeps you enduring in the midst of that suffering is that mindset that something good is happening in you. You\u2019re developing\u2014\n\n<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014that there is purpose.\n\n<strong>Leslie:<\/strong> \u2014there is purpose; you\u2019re developing strength; you\u2019re developing muscle. Even if it\u2019s for vanity\u2019s sake, you are developing something inside of you; but spiritually, James uses that metaphor to help us to understand that joy isn\u2019t this pleasurable, emotional high. It\u2019s an inner sense of calm; it\u2019s an inner sense of knowing that something good is happening in the midst of great suffering.\n\n<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You know, one of the things that, as we talk about depression, that hit me as I was reading both of your books, is depression is a form of suffering.\n\nNow, Ed, I want to take you back to your dad. How did you see your dad suffer well?\u2014because ultimately, that\u2019s what you\u2019re saying he did and how he practiced an heroic faith.\n\n<strong>Ed:<\/strong> One, he would ask for help. Believe it or not, he would ask me, as a teenager, for help. He would ask me, as a teenager, to pray for him in the midst of his depression and feeling so miserable, which\u2014I mean, how many fathers ask their son\/how many fathers have the humility to ask their son to help them in such a way? That\u2019s certainly one thing that I saw.\n\nI mentioned his outward-ness. There was a persistent generosity in my father, financial and in terms of time, to people. This is not unusual to people, who were miserable people: miserable in that they <em>felt<\/em> miserable or their circumstances were miserable. He had a keen eye for people who felt like that.\n\nOne big old man I had a chance to speak to\u2014a 75-year-old man\u2014he has been depressed his <em>entire<\/em> life. There was the kind of person\u2014you want to talk to him and just glean the wisdom he has received\u2014his wisdom was really fairly simple. The question was: \u201cWhy did you get up every morning?\u201d He said, \u201cThe reason I got up every morning was because I was called to love people, and I would look to love somebody every single day.\u201d There, you want to take your shoes off and say, \u201cI\u2019m on holy ground.\n\n<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Ed:<\/strong> \u201cThe Spirit is here.\u201d\n\n<strong>Leslie:<\/strong> Well, certainly, I think that one of the things that depression does\u2014and Ed, you speak to this quite well in your book\u2014is that it really turns a person in on themselves. They become overly analytical\/overly introspective. They examine every flaw that they have in life and everything that is wrong with them; but God wants us to look outward, fixing our eyes on <em>Christ<\/em>. Jesus did that as our example, so we\u2019re to do that as well.\n\n<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Whether it\u2019s steps or whether it\u2019s strategies, both of you write about this. I\u2019d like to explore some that you talk about in both of your books. Ed, you have\u2014I\u2019m looking here; you have 20 practical strategies that really appeal to me, as a man,\u2014\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014as a fixer. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014who wants to fix it. [Laughter]\n\nNow, I know we\u2019re laughing about it, and I know we\u2019re not just going to fix it; but there really are some good practical helps here. Again, Leslie, you have steps; so I want both of you to just share some practical strategies and steps.\n\n<strong>Ed:<\/strong> Right; these strategies come from people, who have been depressed; so they\u2019ve been used by folks. Here is one: \u201cBe suspicious of how you feel. Be suspicious of how you feel.\u201d In other words: \u201cI <em>feel<\/em> like nobody loves me,\u201d \u201cI <em>feel<\/em> like God doesn\u2019t love me.\u201d Feelings\u2014when they are as pronounced as they are in depression\u2014they demand our allegiance; they demand some sort of interpretive power. \u201cI <em>feel<\/em> like no one loves me,\u201d <em>becomes<\/em> \u201cNo one loves me.\u201d There is a <em>huge<\/em> difference between the two.\n\nSo number one: \u201cHow can we be <em>suspicious<\/em> of how we\u2019re feeling?\u201d Here is something, again, that demands great faith. How can we bring a humility to the process?\u2014because depression is saying: \u201cThere is no hope,\u201d \u201cThere is no purpose,\u201d \u201cThere is no joy.\u201d Essentially, what we\u2019re doing is\u2014we\u2019re asking the person to have a <em>protest<\/em> against that and to say, \u201c<em>No<\/em>! There is hope; there is purpose; there is joy.\u201d That protest <em>demands<\/em> immense humility.\n\n<strong>Leslie:<\/strong> One of the things dovetailing on Ed\u2019s strategy is\u2014I talk about our heart being comprised of our feelings, which is important to recognize; but also, the thought\/feeling connection; because for example, the psalmist says in Psalm 55:2, \u201cMy thoughts trouble me, and I am distraught.\u201d Our thoughts affect our feelings. When a person <em>feels<\/em> like they are abandoned, it\u2019s because they are thinking that they have been abandoned. It\u2019s very important for us to understand that, just because we <em>think<\/em> something is true, it doesn\u2019t necessarily make it true. God\u2019s Word is our plumb line for truth.\n\nEven the Israelites felt abandoned by God in Isaiah 49, because they were telling themselves that God abandoned them. God took pains in that passage of Scripture to say, \u201cThough you think this, it\u2019s not true.\u201d It\u2019s very important for us to be able to understand that our heart can deceive us, and our thoughts and our feelings; and also, our heart is comprised of our will. That\u2019s where the psalmist says, \u201cAs for me, I will\u2026\u201d So partly, learning to battle depression is an exercise in strengthening our will so that we can begin to say, \u201cAs for me, I will continue to have hope in God.\u201d\n\n[Studio]\n\n<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> That was Leslie Vernick, along with Ed Welch, talking to us about the pain and suffering of walking through depression.\n\nYou know, I\u2019ve been reading a book lately; it\u2019s called <em>Just Show Up: The Dance of Walking through Suffering Together<\/em>. What is hard for me is knowing: \u201cHow to help during these times?\u201d You see, I\u2019m a fixer; I\u2019m a get \u2019er done. What I\u2019m learning, from some of <em>my<\/em> struggles, and also from this book I\u2019ve been reading, is that relationship is <em>so<\/em> important. Sometimes, it\u2019s not about helping or fixing; it\u2019s just about being there\/about showing up. We\u2019re going to talk more about this on the other side of the break. I\u2019ll be chatting with a lady, who knows a lot about suffering and depression; yet, she can still laugh at the days to come.\n\n<strong>Chonda:<\/strong> \u201cHowwddyy\u201d [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Chonda Pierce joins us next on <em>FamilyLife This Week<\/em>; so stay tuned.\n\n[Radio Station Spot Break]\n\n<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Welcome back to <em>FamilyLife This Week<\/em>. I\u2019m Michelle Hill. I am <em>excited<\/em> today; I am on the phone with Chonda Pierce. Chonda is America\u2019s number-one female comedian, and she\u2019s been making audiences <em>laugh<\/em> for decades. She\u2019s written eight books, including, <em>Laughing in the Dark<\/em>. Last fall, her movie entitled, also, <em>Laughing in the Dark<\/em> came out. Chonda, you are one busy lady; that\u2019s for sure. [Laughter]\n\nBefore we get totally started here, can you give us your Minnie Pearl impersonation? [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Chonda:<\/strong> Oh, I might make the dogs come running. I haven\u2019t done this in a while; okay? Everybody hold your ears: \u201cHowwddyy!\u201d [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Well, you are known for your sass and your wit, but I\u2019m going to turn the corner here and just ask you a question: \u201cThese last five years\u2014\n\n<strong>Chonda:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cthey haven\u2019t been that easy on you, and you\u2019ve\u2014\n\n<strong>Chonda:<\/strong> No, no; they haven\u2019t.\n\n<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cwalked through some <em>hard<\/em>, <em>hard<\/em>, deep waters. Can you tell us about that?\u201d\n\n<strong>Chonda:<\/strong> I grew up in church. You know, as a teenager, I lost both of my sisters; my parents divorced. I thought that was the extent of my pain and dysfunction for all time. Then the last five years, I\u2019ve lost my mother; and my husband spiraled heavily into addiction. I think a lot of the beginning of that, for his pain, was just a trauma we had at home with one of our kids and a great disappointment that families go through with stuff like that.\n\nMy foundation was, thank God, the Word of God was just so deep and heavy in my heart, even though I\u2019m not a perfect Christian; but I just knew where to run when it got bad. I thank the Lord for that. My mother passed away; I became very estranged from a child of mine; and then my husband died. It\/I have been through some stuff\u2014I tell you, Michelle\u2014but losing my husband has been <em>the<\/em> <em>hardest<\/em> thing I have ever faced in my life.\n\n<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> I bet.\n\n<strong>Chonda:<\/strong> It has been a trial like none other, and it\u2019s given me a sweet love and appreciation for those who are widowed and how they navigate life again. You know, it\u2019s like a\u2014it\u2019s like finding out who you are all over again.\n\n<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Oh, yes.\n\n<strong>Chonda:<\/strong> For 31 years, I was the wife of a sweet man, named David, and a teacher. He was a teacher, and he was my children\u2019s father, and just the greatest best friend I\u2019ve ever had. Now, I have to figure out: \u201cWho is Chonda Pierce alone?\u201d\n\n<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> That\u2019s so hard. Because, even though our identity is supposed to always be found in Christ, it\u2019s <em>hard<\/em> because we do take on identities of those around us or our roles in life and who we are; and you were his wife. You were David Pierce\u2019s wife.\n\n<strong>Chonda:<\/strong> Yes; that was my\u2014you know on the road, I\u2019m Chonda Pierce, the comedian; it\u2019s great\u2014but I\/as much as I love my job, I don\u2019t live for ya\u2019ll. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Now, Chonda, today on the show we\u2019ve been talking about suffering, and we\u2019ve talked about depression. Can you help us understand how to come alongside those, who are walking in those dark valleys?\n\n<strong>Chonda:<\/strong> Sometimes, you don\u2019t have to have a verse, or an answer, or a cheer. Sometimes, just sit with somebody. Go\u2014\n\n<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Chonda:<\/strong> \u2014have a meal together.\n\n<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> That\u2019s great.\n\n<strong>Chonda:<\/strong> Just take a walk; you know? It\u2019s the presence of another body in the room that is so tender for that person to just be able to have fellowship with. I think, sometimes, we are intimidated by the broken person; that\u2019s because we\u2019re afraid we\u2019re not going to have the right words. You don\u2019t need to have the right words; you just need to be the right ears, and that changes everything.\n\nI just can remember\u2014my sweet brother is a wonderful counselor and psychologist\u2014and I\u2019m so lucky to have him. He, of course, still charges me; but that\u2019s a whole \u2018nother story. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> He\u2019s family! He\u2019s family! [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Chonda:<\/strong> I don\u2019t get a family discount. [Laughter] What\u2019s so sweet is there have been times he will come by; and he\u2019ll just say, \u201cI didn\u2019t have anything to say or do. Just wanted to sit with you for a little while\u201d; you know? We\u2019ll sit, or we\u2019ll take a walk in the woods out on the farm; and man, that\u2019s such a blessing. That\u2019s the key\u2014is just be\u2014\n\n<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Chonda:<\/strong> \u2014just be with someone.\n\nWhen you can figure\/when you can <em>allow<\/em> yourself to do that, then being around the broken person, or the person who is struggling with depression or grief, then, it\u2019s like, \u201cOkay; that\u2019s easy. I can do that.\u201d But we get so afraid there\u2019s\/that we\u2019ve got to do, do, do something to help them through it. Sometimes, just time is all that will help them through it. Give them time, and you just be there; you know?\n\n<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> That is <em>great<\/em> advice. Well, Chonda, thank you <em>so much<\/em> for bringing some sparkle, and life, and joy. I know that those, who go to your concerts, they leave, giggling and laughing. There is just a lightness\/a lightness that happens that God brings through you.\n\n<strong>Chonda:<\/strong> I pray that, and I <em>love<\/em> my job for that very reason. Depression\/you know, I suffer from clinical depression. I always tell people every night, \u201cThe healing power of Jesus and 150 milligram Effexor made this night possible.\u201d [Laughter] It\u2019s true, but what you have to start to rely on is the black and white\u2014is just the written page\u2014because when your heart is broken, and your feelings are raw, you go straight to the Word of God; and then you have to trust that those words are true, because you cannot live by emotions.\n\n<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Amen.\n\n<strong>Chonda:<\/strong> Amen.\n\n<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Chonda, it was such a joy and an honor to talk with you today.\n\n<strong>Chonda:<\/strong> Have a wonderful day.\n\n<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Bye, bye.\n\nThat was Chonda Pierce. What a joy! She knows how to spin laughter into those tough situations.\n\nHey, this Christmas, FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> has a <em>special<\/em> gift just for you. It\u2019s <em>really<\/em> easy; it\u2019s the FamilyLife app. You can get it wherever you get your favorite apps at the app store. Download that app; open it up; and at your fingertips are all the podcasts on the FamilyLife Podcast Network. There are helpful articles there; there are other great resources. And here\u2019s the best part: it\u2019s free; but yet, the value of the content is <em>priceless<\/em>. This is our Christmas gift for you; it\u2019s the FamilyLife app.\n\nHey, also at Christmastime, it\u2019s the time where we: \u201cDeck the halls with boughs of holly, fa la la la la la la la.\u201d Well, if you are in a blended family, or you know one, you know that Christmases can be a hard season to deck those halls. Well, Ron Deal is going to join me next week; and he is going to help us prepare our hearts for this Christmas season. I hope you can join us for that.\n\nThanks for listening! I want to thank the president of FamilyLife, David Robbins, along with our station partners around the country. And a big \u201cThank you!\u201d to our engineer today, Keith Lynch. Thanks to our producers, Marques Holt and Phil Krause. Justin\n\nAdams is our mastering engineer, and Megan Martin is our production coordinator.\n\nOur program is a production of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, and our mission is to effectively develop godly families who change the world one home at a time.\n\nI'm Michelle Hill, inviting you to join us again next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife This Week<\/em>.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\nWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\nCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2020 FamilyLife. 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