{"id":306593,"date":"2020-12-03T07:00:04","date_gmt":"2020-12-03T12:00:04","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/talking-to-my-family-about-transgenderism\/"},"modified":"2020-12-03T07:00:04","modified_gmt":"2020-12-03T12:00:04","slug":"talking-to-my-family-about-transgenderism","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/talking-to-my-family-about-transgenderism\/","title":{"rendered":"Talking to My Family About Transgenderism"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>How do I talk to my family about transgender issues?&#8221; J. Alan Branch gives direction for families, affected by confusion and brokenness over this issue, in how to lead with truth and grace.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2020-12-03.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:27:23","filesize":"25.08M","filesize_raw":"26294063","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2896,2873,2821],"tags":[6963],"podcast_series":[8413],"cwp_profile":[9677],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-306593","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-lgbt","category-mental-and-emotional-issues","category-reaching-out","tag-transgenderism","podcast_series-affirming-gods-image","cwp_profile-j-alan-branch","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/306593\/talking-to-my-family-about-transgenderism","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/306593\/talking-to-my-family-about-transgenderism","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"p4bKz2VDuK\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/talking-to-my-family-about-transgenderism\/\">Talking to My Family About Transgenderism<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/talking-to-my-family-about-transgenderism\/embed\/#?secret=p4bKz2VDuK\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Talking to My Family About Transgenderism&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"p4bKz2VDuK\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2020-12-03.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2020-12-03.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is Bob Lepine from <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. We are, again, going to be dealing today with a very sensitive subject\u2014the subject of transgenderism. For people, who are experiencing gender dysphoria, is there an alternative to hormone blockers and gender-reassignment surgery? Alan Branch says there is. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Alan:<\/strong> At some point, we just have to stop and say, \u201cWait a minute! How many surgeries are we going to do? Isn\u2019t it a better game plan to say, \u2018We understand you feel this way, and we grieve with you. We know it hurts, and we love you; but let\u2019s find a way to try to embrace the image that God gave you. Let\u2019s find a way to embrace that. You\u2019ve got a fight the rest of us don\u2019t have, but we love you. We\u2019re going to be with you through this, but we\u2019re not going to mutilate your body to achieve this goal\u2019?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Thursday, December 3<sup>rd<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I\u2019m Bob Lepine. You can find us online at FamilyLifeToday.com. What does it look like for us to respond to the issue of gender confusion or gender dysphoria with both grace and truth? We\u2019ll talk with J. Alan Branch about that today. Stay with us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. Ann, you grew up in a house full of brothers. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I did. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And there were times, as you were growing up, where you kind of wished you were a boy. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I <em>said<\/em> those exact words to my mom. I was out playing football. I think I was nine years old\u2014eight or nine. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Let me tell you\u2014this girl can play some football. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Is that right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019m telling you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I was the only girl playing with all the neighborhood boys. I thought I was really good; [Laughter] I don\u2019t know if I was. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> She was. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> But I thought I was. I remember coming in, because somebody didn\u2019t want me to play\u2014one of the boys\u2014they didn\u2019t think I was as good. I walked in the house; I was <em>mad<\/em>. I told my mom, \u201cI don\u2019t want to be a girl! I want to be a boy! I don\u2019t know why God would make me a girl, because it\u2019s dumb being a girl,\u201d\u2014you know that kind of talk. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I was glad that my mom didn\u2019t freak out. I felt like I wasn\u2019t like most of the girls; I wasn\u2019t the girlie girl. I was more of a tomboy; I liked all the things the boys did. I didn\u2019t like thinking about the pain of childbirth; and I just thought, \u201cThis is terrible. Boys have it so much better.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMy mom\u2019s reaction\u2014I\u2019ll never forget it\u2014because she just sat, and she listened. She said, \u201cOh, honey, I used to feel like that once in a while.\u201d She said, \u201cBut then, when you get older, and you have kids, and you do these things that boys <em>can\u2019t<\/em> do,\u201d and \u201cYou\u2019re going to be <em>amazing<\/em> at being a mom, or a wife, or a career, or whatever it is you\u2019re going to do\u2014you\u2019re going to be really good at it.\u201d That just settled my heart; that was it. But as I got older, I never even thought about it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You have to wonder, \u201cIf you had that feeling as a child today, and gone on YouTube, and found the videos\u201d\u2014I mean, we\u2019re talking about the issue of transgender today. This is a whole different era for boys and girls to start to be figuring out, \u201cWhat does it mean to be a boy or a girl?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think it would be very confusing, and I wasn\u2019t confused in that day. I was just <em>mad<\/em> in the moment, and I wanted to beat all the boys; but today, it could make it very confusing for so many kids. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I mean, when you\u2014I mean, we all do\u2014but you search for truth: \u201cCan somebody give me truth?\u201d\u2014your mom was able to do that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> We believed in Jesus, but I wouldn\u2019t call us a Christ-reared family in terms of biblical teaching. If someone would have brought the Bible to me, I would have been hungry to know what God said. I wonder if more people are than we realize. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, we\u2019ve got Alan Branch joining us today on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Welcome back to the program. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Alan:<\/strong> I\u2019m so glad to be here. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Alan is a professor of Christian Ethics at Midwestern Seminary in Kansas City and has written a book on this subject that\u2019s very helpful. It\u2019s called <em>Affirming God\u2019s Image: Addressing the Transgender Question with Both Science and Scripture<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Alan, I\u2019m interested\u2014I mean, this isn\u2019t a light topic\u2014how did you decide to tackle this? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Alan:<\/strong> Well, part of it is that God\u2019s called me to teach at the seminary. This is a huge issue in the culture. It\u2019s\/I feel like part of my responsibility is serving the body of Christ and serving my denomination to answer these issues. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019ve encountered folks in life that experienced either same-sex attraction, somewhere across the LGBTQ spectrum, or in particular, had family members that wanted to say they were transgender. I have a buddy\u2014now, we\u2019re both veterans\u2014and sometimes, we go eat at Cracker Barrel together. He has a brother that, now, identifies as a woman. These are real people\u2014people we go to church with. Their family members are saying, \u201cWhat do you do?\u201d So to try to bring something to the body of Christ that is helpful and gives people a way of thinking and, at least, a grid to think through these things and [answer]: \u201cHow do I talk to my family member that says their transgender? What do I say? What do I do?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think the central verse\u2014I do want to make sure we mention this out of <em>Affirming God\u2019s Image<\/em>\u2014there is a reason why the book is titled that. It comes from Genesis 1:26-27, so all humans are made in the image of God. Then the next verse, though, is very interesting; it\u2019s Genesis 1:27. It says, \u201cGod created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female, He created them.\u201d Our sex, being male or female, is not an accident. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI talked about this distinction between sex and gender that secular people make. The Bible doesn\u2019t really make that distinction. The Bible just assumes that you are going to act in an appropriate ways that match your sex. It\u2019s not a bad thing to be born a boy; it\u2019s not a bad thing to be born a girl\u2014it\u2019s a very, very good thing\u2014so we want to <em>affirm<\/em> the image of God. We want to <em>affirm<\/em> what God has done, so that\u2019s why we called the book <em>Affirming God\u2019s Image<\/em>. Some of the things we\u2019ve talked about for parents, at a very early age, affirming the children: \u201cIt\u2019s so good God made you a boy,\u201d and \u201cIt\u2019s so good God made you a girl.\u201d That\u2019s where the idea of <em>Affirming God\u2019s Image<\/em> comes from. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> As we talk about this, I\u2019ve had this question come up as I\u2019ve talked with people about this\u2014they say, \u201cWhat about intersex people?\u201d\u2014people who have genital confusion is about the only way I know how to describe it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Alan:<\/strong> I\u2019m so glad\/I\u2019m really so glad you asked that. So let me\/let\u2019s talk about that. First of all, some of the listeners may not know the term Bob just used. Intersex refers to someone who has ambiguous genitalia\u2014the popular term is intersex\u2014the technical term is disorders of sex development. Transgender activists frequently use this as evidence. What they want to say is\u2014they want to say, \u201cAh! Look, the existence of people with a disorder of sex development proves that gender is very fluid; it\u2019s not a binary. This gender binary you\u2019ve been trying to force upon us is just wrong.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, I think there are some very important differences between modern-day transgenderism and disorders of sex development. Let me give them to you. First of all, a disorder of sex development can be clearly diagnosed. Usually, they are some genetic problem that is taking place, and they can trace it down to the gene. That\u2019s very different from modern-day transgenderism; modern-day transgenderism is all subjective\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Alan:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cWell, this is how I feel.\u201d \u201cOkay, I\u2019m trusting what you\u2019re telling me; I have no objective diagnosis,\u201d\u2014we need to be clear about this. There is no way that you can do a genetic test and look at a baby, genetically, and say, \u201cAha! This baby is going to be transgender,\u201d\u2014the science has no predictive value about that. There is no way you can do a brain exam and say, \u201cAha! This is a transgender brain,\u201d\u2014the science has no predictive value. We\u2019re all basing this on subjective evidence, which is a major, major distinction. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne of the key points in ethics is you want to treat different cases differently. A DSD [difference in sex development] is a different issue\u2014disorder of sex development is a different issue from transgenderism. All of us deal with effects of the fall in our body; right? Kids with a DSD deal with it much more profoundly, much earlier, so they need our grace and our mercy; but that doesn\u2019t mean that gender is not binary. In fact, the gender\u2014this is a case where the exception <em>proves<\/em> the rule\u2014the only reason we know that these kids have a DSD is because the rule is: \u201cThe gender binary, male and female,\u201d\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Alan:<\/strong> \u2014so the exception actually proves the rule. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Now, you have been studying this for\u2014how many years? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Alan:<\/strong> Oh, you know, for the last five years, I\u2019ve really made an intensive study of transgenderism. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You know, when I was reading your book. I\u2019m reading things I\u2019ve <em>never<\/em> read\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Alan:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014even the surgery and how that\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Alan:<\/strong> Oh, yes; it\u2019s painful. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014I mean, quite a chapter\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Alan:<\/strong> It\u2019s brutal. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014to read. What about the results? I mean, as people take hormone therapy or they go in and have surgery to change their\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014reassignment surgery. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Alan:<\/strong> Yes, that\u2019s right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014reassignment surgery\u2014what are the results? I mean, I don\u2019t know. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Alan:<\/strong> That\u2019s a great question. First of all, usually, what they\u2019ll tell you\u2014someone who has had gender-reassignment surgery\u2014is\/they will usually say they are pleased with the aesthetic results afterwards, because they look differently. They are usually pleased with that; but the data on the other comorbid psychological issues that go along with transgenderism\u2014here is what you need to know. Transgenderism has a whole bag of other problems that come with it\u2014depression\/suicidal ideation\u2014are very, very common. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLet me go ahead and tell you about this. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014even after the surgery? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Alan:<\/strong> Yes, it\u2019s common after the surgery. This\/let me explain what\u2019s going on. Here\u2019s what is happening. The secular people will say: \u201cWell, yes; people who have transgender identity have a higher level of suicidal ideation. Here is why; preachers at churches are saying things about sin, and that gives people guilt. They self-internalize the guilt, and they loathe, and they hate themselves.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, there was a huge study, coming out of Sweden. You will not find a more transgender-affirming country in the world than Sweden. They were looking at about 300-plus folks, who had gender-reassignment surgery\u2014this is 2011, I believe it was\u2014they were looking at what were the mental health outcomes after they had the surgery. What you found was: they were pleased with the aesthetics of the surgery; the suicidal ideation didn\u2019t go away; the mental health problems didn\u2019t go away. They were not in Southern United States\/the Bible belt; they were in Sweden. What you find is the comorbid mental health issues, that the surgery is supposed to fix, is not fixing the issue. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; in fact, there is a book that has come out recently by a left-leaning, gay-affirming, non-Christian\u2014and I bring that up only to say this is not somebody, who would be in our camp\u2014but she\u2019s written a book called <em>Irreversible Damage: The Transgender Craze that Is Seducing Our Daughters<\/em>. She\u2019s looking at the data\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Alan:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014and saying, \u201cBoy, there is something going on here, where girls, in particular, are being seduced into hormone replacement therapy and surgery.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Alan:<\/strong> Right; the other issue is puberty-suppressing drugs; this is brutal. These drugs were developed, years ago, to address kids who have precocious puberty. There are some children, for reasons we don\u2019t know, they go through puberty really, really early ages; and it\u2019s not the best scenario, because you want puberty to happen at the right age, where they can emotionally process things. Some drugs were developed in the early \u201880\u2019s to suppress puberty for those kids. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>I want to be clear; the drugs were developed for a morally-permissible use. Well, some folks in Holland started saying, \u201cHey, wait a minute. Some of these kids that are transgender\u2014what if we gave these drugs to them, and we just kept them from going through puberty?\u201d The idea is\/they say, \u201cPart of the problem\/he anticipatory burden of going through puberty is too great for these transgender kids. They don\u2019t want to go through these changes in their body, so we\u2019re just going to suppress puberty.\u201d What they\u2019ll tell you is this is completely reversible and that this gives the child to make up their mind if they want to embrace transgenderism or embrace their birth sex. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>The data shows that\u2019s not what happens. If they start taking the puberty-suppression drugs, they go to transgender. I mean, it\u2019s overwhelming data. Let me just tell you\u2014that\u2019s a <em>bad<\/em> idea. Children have lots of anticipatory burdens about a lot of things in puberty; but to suppress puberty\u2014and for the boys who want to become girls\u2014it gets very vicious. Let me explain what happens in gender-reassignment surgery. This is why puberty suppression is such a bad idea. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe physicians will take the boy\u2019s genitalia, and they will invert it into his body to create an artificial girl\u2019s genitalia. However, a boy who has been through puberty suppression, his body doesn\u2019t grow as large as it normally would; and there is not enough material there to do that. So then, what happens is they have to go and bisect a piece of the colon or of the intestine and use that to create an artificial female organ. This is brutal surgery; it\u2019s extensive\u2014all in the name of an expansive notion of transgender identity. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, at some point, we just have to stop and say, \u201cWait a minute! Isn\u2019t it a better game plan to say, \u2018We understand you feel this way, and we grieve with you. We know it hurts, and we love you; but let\u2019s find a way to try to embrace the image that God gave you. You\u2019ve got a fight the rest of us don\u2019t have, but we love you. We\u2019re going to be with you through this; but we\u2019re not going to mutilate your body to achieve this goal\u2019?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Now, I found it interesting\u2014and maybe, I\u2019m understanding this wrong in your book\u2014but it sounded like, when doctors even presented that to the person coming in, like, \u201cHey, this is how it\u2019s going to go, and I would discourage it,\u201d it seemed like you were hearing\/they said, \u201cI still want to go ahead.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Alan:<\/strong> If we\u2019re trying to understand transgenderism, these are real people; and we don\u2019t want to objectify them just as some sort of object. These are not\/these are human beings. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Alan:<\/strong> Some of them are, honestly, brothers and sisters in Christ, who experience gender dysphoria for whatever reason; okay. The challenge is\u2014if someone knows, up-front, how brutal the surgery is,\u00a0 but they still want to go through it, that should give us some idea of how terrible this distress is. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> They are desperate. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Alan:<\/strong> They are desperate; yes. That should cause us to have mercy and to show kindness. Now, the world says, \u201cWell, if you really want to be kind and merciful, then help them through this surgery.\u201d We\u2019re saying, \u201cNo, no; that\u2019s not the merciful and that\u2019s not the kind thing to do; but we do love you, and we don\u2019t hate you. We want to be kind to you.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob:<\/strong> I\u2019m thinking about parents, who are raising kids, who aren\u2019t experiencing any kind of gender dysphoria. But here is what they are experiencing: at age 13, or 14, or 15 in their school\u2014if they are not pro-transgender\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Alan:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014they are cancelled; they are haters;\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Alan:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014they are outcasts. How do we help our sons and daughters understand that it is <em>loving<\/em> to say, \u201cThis is not going to be good for these people. I think this is wrong, because it\u2019s going to hurt them and hurt them for the rest of their lives.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Alan:<\/strong> Well, truth is never popular in many cases; right? What we want to do, as Christians, is share the truth in love; and our demeanor does mean much. I think part of the challenge we have\u2014particularly in America, when it comes to issues just like you described, Bob, about \u201cHow do we stand for the right thing in the right way and endure the fact that we are very unpopular for it?\u201d\u2014it is we have a bit of challenge because this country had such a rich Christian tradition, where Christianity was celebrated as a good thing; but we\u2019re living in a day today, if you get saved, \u201cOh, well, you joined the haters\u201d; right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Alan:<\/strong> I think what we have to teach our kids today is, frankly: \u201cYou are now stepping into what Christianity is like for the rest of Christians outside of the United States around the world. Christians in Iran already face this. Christians in China already face this for other reasons\u2014it\u2019s not for transgenderism\u2014but it\u2019s for other reasons.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tTeach our kids that: \u201cIf you\u2019re going to live for Jesus, here is the truth: \u2018Yes, you can have a victorious life\u2019; here is the truth: \u2018The world is not going to be happy. Part of being a Christian is loving your enemies. We never have the liberty to be unkind; we never have the liberty to respond in hatred. We just have to tell our friends, \u201cI love you; I care for you. Jesus loves you. I know you are mad at me; I\u2019m not mad at you, and I care about you.\u201d\u2019\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think, more than ever before, we have to have these discussions with our kids\/with our families. We are in a culture now that we have to know where we are, where we stand, what God\u2019s Word says; and we have to disciple our kids and love them. I <em>love<\/em> that you\u2019re teaching our kids\/that we\u2019re teaching our kids: \u201cWe need to love people better, but also be firm in our stance in our biblical worldview.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Alan:<\/strong> That\u2019s true. It\u2019s true for churches as well because, listen, ministry is messy. I believe in evangelism, and I want people to share their faith in Christ; but sometimes, we forget that, when somebody gets saved, God doesn\u2019t immediately take away everything at once. Life can be really, really messy. Ministry is messy. If you are going to minister to people anywhere across the LGBTQ spectrum, it\u2019s going to be messy. They are going to have questions you didn\u2019t have to deal with before. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think the best thing that could happen for some churches is, right now\u2014they are arguing about the color of the carpet; or how we should do church government; or the preacher preaching too long, or expository, or topical\u2014they are grumbling about these things. What they need is for somebody, across the LGBTQ spectrum, to get saved and to come to church; and at Bible study, say, \u201cI\u2019ve got a question. I feel like I\u2019m still a male, but I\u2019m a female. What do I do with that?\u201d\u00a0 I mean, they are not going to be worried about the church governance anymore. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> The carpet won\u2019t matter. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Alan:<\/strong> Right; it won\u2019t matter. But in all seriousness, ministry is messy just like that. Jesus came into a messy world; so the church comes into all this mess, and we reach out to people in their brokenness. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere is a fabulous Japanese art form, where they take broken vases, and then they glue them back together with gold. Something that was broken is now more valuable when it\u2019s put back together than what it was when it was in its original state, because of the beautiful art form. <br><br>Well, this is what Christ does with people\u2019s lives. Across the LGBTQ spectrum\u2014and especially, people who have gone through gender-reassignment surgery\u2014what do you do?\u2014they\u2019ve gotten saved, and they kind of want to join the church. Well, God can take that brokenness and bring beauty out of it; the gospel is sufficient for that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Beauty from ashes\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Alan:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014is what Isaiah says. That\u2019s the glorious truth of the gospel. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And it may be messy\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Alan:<\/strong> It\u2019s <em>going<\/em> to be messy. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> It may not be a step by step: \u201cOh look, they are totally perfect now\u201d; it can be messy along the way. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I mean, you\u2019ve said it; I think it\u2019s key that we <em>lead<\/em> with grace. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Alan:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You\u2019ve got to have truth and grace. I think they are not going to listen to truth\u2014I mean, they\/anybody\u2014unless we <em>lead<\/em> with love\/<em>lead<\/em> with compassion. You\u2019ve been so compassionate every time you\u2019ve talked about this. That\u2019s where you have to start\u2014that they feel loved by the love of Christ, that they would be interested in knowing, \u201cIs there a truth that I\u2019m not seeing?\u201d\u2014\u201cYes, it is here\u201d; and \u201cBoth are equal,\u201d and \u201cIt\u2019s actually possible to be truth <em>and<\/em> grace.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Here is how we\u2019ve got to coach and train our kids\u2014because stop and think about it\u2014every parent, when your child is eight\/nine years old, you want your kids to have friends\u2014friends that they can connect with. They want to have friends and want to be popular. When you recognize that the rules of friendship and popularity today may require compromise to your faith in order to have friends and be popular, you can\u2019t be a Christian. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, what do you care more about\u2014that your kids follow Christ or that they have friends?\u2014here\u2019s what we\u2019ve got to be able to sit down with our kids and say, \u201cYou know what? Late elementary\/middle school, these are going to be <em>very hard<\/em> years. What\u2019s going to be in your heart, more than anything else, is you\u2019re going to want the other kids to like you. There may be things that you believe\/that we believe, as a family, that your friends are going to say, \u2018You can\u2019t believe that; you can\u2019t follow that and be popular.\u2019\u201d You\u2019ve got to prepare them for what\u2019s ahead. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> We <em>have<\/em> to disciple our kids, and we can\u2019t be passive in it\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014because the culture and social media\/they <em>are<\/em> discipling our children. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Alan:<\/strong> That\u2019s right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And it all starts with relationship. It\u2019s not: \u201cHere are the rules, and here is what we\u2019re going to do.\u201d It is: we are loving them; we are talking to them; we are teaching them God\u2019s blueprint and God\u2019s plan; and \u201cMan, we can be the light of the world.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Alan, this conversation has been so helpful\/so good. Thank you for the book. Thanks for being here and for coaching us on all of this. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Alan:<\/strong> It\u2019s been a great honor to be here, and I want to remind everyone that is listening that the gospel is sufficient for these things. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; thank you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI hope our listeners will get a copy of your book. The book is called <em>Affirming God\u2019s Image: Addressing the Transgender Question with Science and Scripture<\/em>. You can order the book from us, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY. Again, the title of the book by J. Alan Branch is <em>Affirming God\u2019s Image: Addressing the Transgender Question with Science and Scripture<\/em>. Order, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or call to order: 1-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLet me ask you to take just a minute and think back over the last 12 months. I mean, most of us would rather not think back over the last 12 months; it\u2019s been that kind of year; right? But my question for you is: \u201cHas <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> in some way been used by God in your life this year, with whatever you\u2019ve been going through\u2014in your marriage; raising your kids; extended family relationships; maybe, it\u2019s something you heard on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>; maybe, it\u2019s a resource you found on our website\u2014has God used this ministry to have an impact in your life this year?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf so, we want to ask you to make a generous yearend contribution to this ministry. Honestly, we need you; we need you to step forward and make a donation to be as generous as you can be in 2020 so that we can finish out this year in a healthy place financially. <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is dependent upon your donations for this program to be heard on this local station and for all that we do, here, at FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>. That\u2019s why we want to ask you to make a yearend contribution. When you do make a donation during the month of December, that donation is going to be matched, dollar for dollar, up to a total of $2 million. We hope to take full advantage of that matching-gift opportunity that has been presented to us this month by some friends of the ministry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen you make a yearend donation, we\u2019d like to say, \u201cThank you,\u201d by sending you, first, a flash drive that has the top 100 <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> programs from the last \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t28 years. We\u2019ve gone through and selected the best programs from the last 28 years \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\ton marriage and parenting\/some powerful interviews we\u2019ve done with people, whose names you would know. This flash drive will include the top 100 programs. It\u2019s our gift to you when you make a yearend donation. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019ll also include a copy of, when you request it, my book, <em>Love Like You Mean It<\/em>, which is all about 1 Corinthians 13 and how those verses on love can be applied in a marriage relationship. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com to make an online donation, or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to donate. Again, your donation will be matched, dollar for dollar. You\u2019ll get the USB drive with the 100 top programs from <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> and a copy of my book, <em>Love Like You Mean It<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou\u2019ll be helping tens of thousands of married couples all around the world\/moms and dads as they raise the next generation. Thanks for your investment in this ministry at yearend. We look forward to hearing from you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow, we\u2019re going to hear a unique adoption story. In fact, I\u2019ve heard a lot of adoption stories over the years; and I don\u2019t know that I\u2019ve heard one quite like this. We\u2019ll introduce you to Holley and Mark Gerth tomorrow, and we\u2019ll hear their story. I hope you can join us for that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2020 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:27:23"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["25.08M"],"filesize_raw":["26294063"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-306593.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-306593.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom 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do I talk to my family about transgender issues?\" J. Alan Branch gives direction for families, affected by confusion and brokenness over this issue, in how to lead with truth and grace.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2020-12-03.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is Bob Lepine from <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. We are, again, going to be dealing today with a very sensitive subject\u2014the subject of transgenderism. For people, who are experiencing gender dysphoria, is there an alternative to hormone blockers and gender-reassignment surgery? Alan Branch says there is. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Alan:<\/strong> At some point, we just have to stop and say, \u201cWait a minute! How many surgeries are we going to do? Isn\u2019t it a better game plan to say, \u2018We understand you feel this way, and we grieve with you. We know it hurts, and we love you; but let\u2019s find a way to try to embrace the image that God gave you. Let\u2019s find a way to embrace that. You\u2019ve got a fight the rest of us don\u2019t have, but we love you. We\u2019re going to be with you through this, but we\u2019re not going to mutilate your body to achieve this goal\u2019?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Thursday, December 3<sup>rd<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I\u2019m Bob Lepine. You can find us online at FamilyLifeToday.com. What does it look like for us to respond to the issue of gender confusion or gender dysphoria with both grace and truth? We\u2019ll talk with J. Alan Branch about that today. Stay with us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. Ann, you grew up in a house full of brothers. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I did. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And there were times, as you were growing up, where you kind of wished you were a boy. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I <em>said<\/em> those exact words to my mom. I was out playing football. I think I was nine years old\u2014eight or nine. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Let me tell you\u2014this girl can play some football. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Is that right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019m telling you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I was the only girl playing with all the neighborhood boys. I thought I was really good; [Laughter] I don\u2019t know if I was. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> She was. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> But I thought I was. I remember coming in, because somebody didn\u2019t want me to play\u2014one of the boys\u2014they didn\u2019t think I was as good. I walked in the house; I was <em>mad<\/em>. I told my mom, \u201cI don\u2019t want to be a girl! I want to be a boy! I don\u2019t know why God would make me a girl, because it\u2019s dumb being a girl,\u201d\u2014you know that kind of talk. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I was glad that my mom didn\u2019t freak out. I felt like I wasn\u2019t like most of the girls; I wasn\u2019t the girlie girl. I was more of a tomboy; I liked all the things the boys did. I didn\u2019t like thinking about the pain of childbirth; and I just thought, \u201cThis is terrible. Boys have it so much better.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMy mom\u2019s reaction\u2014I\u2019ll never forget it\u2014because she just sat, and she listened. She said, \u201cOh, honey, I used to feel like that once in a while.\u201d She said, \u201cBut then, when you get older, and you have kids, and you do these things that boys <em>can\u2019t<\/em> do,\u201d and \u201cYou\u2019re going to be <em>amazing<\/em> at being a mom, or a wife, or a career, or whatever it is you\u2019re going to do\u2014you\u2019re going to be really good at it.\u201d That just settled my heart; that was it. But as I got older, I never even thought about it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You have to wonder, \u201cIf you had that feeling as a child today, and gone on YouTube, and found the videos\u201d\u2014I mean, we\u2019re talking about the issue of transgender today. This is a whole different era for boys and girls to start to be figuring out, \u201cWhat does it mean to be a boy or a girl?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think it would be very confusing, and I wasn\u2019t confused in that day. I was just <em>mad<\/em> in the moment, and I wanted to beat all the boys; but today, it could make it very confusing for so many kids. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I mean, when you\u2014I mean, we all do\u2014but you search for truth: \u201cCan somebody give me truth?\u201d\u2014your mom was able to do that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> We believed in Jesus, but I wouldn\u2019t call us a Christ-reared family in terms of biblical teaching. If someone would have brought the Bible to me, I would have been hungry to know what God said. I wonder if more people are than we realize. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, we\u2019ve got Alan Branch joining us today on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Welcome back to the program. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Alan:<\/strong> I\u2019m so glad to be here. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Alan is a professor of Christian Ethics at Midwestern Seminary in Kansas City and has written a book on this subject that\u2019s very helpful. It\u2019s called <em>Affirming God\u2019s Image: Addressing the Transgender Question with Both Science and Scripture<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Alan, I\u2019m interested\u2014I mean, this isn\u2019t a light topic\u2014how did you decide to tackle this? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Alan:<\/strong> Well, part of it is that God\u2019s called me to teach at the seminary. This is a huge issue in the culture. It\u2019s\/I feel like part of my responsibility is serving the body of Christ and serving my denomination to answer these issues. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019ve encountered folks in life that experienced either same-sex attraction, somewhere across the LGBTQ spectrum, or in particular, had family members that wanted to say they were transgender. I have a buddy\u2014now, we\u2019re both veterans\u2014and sometimes, we go eat at Cracker Barrel together. He has a brother that, now, identifies as a woman. These are real people\u2014people we go to church with. Their family members are saying, \u201cWhat do you do?\u201d So to try to bring something to the body of Christ that is helpful and gives people a way of thinking and, at least, a grid to think through these things and [answer]: \u201cHow do I talk to my family member that says their transgender? What do I say? What do I do?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think the central verse\u2014I do want to make sure we mention this out of <em>Affirming God\u2019s Image<\/em>\u2014there is a reason why the book is titled that. It comes from Genesis 1:26-27, so all humans are made in the image of God. Then the next verse, though, is very interesting; it\u2019s Genesis 1:27. It says, \u201cGod created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female, He created them.\u201d Our sex, being male or female, is not an accident. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI talked about this distinction between sex and gender that secular people make. The Bible doesn\u2019t really make that distinction. The Bible just assumes that you are going to act in an appropriate ways that match your sex. It\u2019s not a bad thing to be born a boy; it\u2019s not a bad thing to be born a girl\u2014it\u2019s a very, very good thing\u2014so we want to <em>affirm<\/em> the image of God. We want to <em>affirm<\/em> what God has done, so that\u2019s why we called the book <em>Affirming God\u2019s Image<\/em>. Some of the things we\u2019ve talked about for parents, at a very early age, affirming the children: \u201cIt\u2019s so good God made you a boy,\u201d and \u201cIt\u2019s so good God made you a girl.\u201d That\u2019s where the idea of <em>Affirming God\u2019s Image<\/em> comes from. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> As we talk about this, I\u2019ve had this question come up as I\u2019ve talked with people about this\u2014they say, \u201cWhat about intersex people?\u201d\u2014people who have genital confusion is about the only way I know how to describe it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Alan:<\/strong> I\u2019m so glad\/I\u2019m really so glad you asked that. So let me\/let\u2019s talk about that. First of all, some of the listeners may not know the term Bob just used. Intersex refers to someone who has ambiguous genitalia\u2014the popular term is intersex\u2014the technical term is disorders of sex development. Transgender activists frequently use this as evidence. What they want to say is\u2014they want to say, \u201cAh! Look, the existence of people with a disorder of sex development proves that gender is very fluid; it\u2019s not a binary. This gender binary you\u2019ve been trying to force upon us is just wrong.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, I think there are some very important differences between modern-day transgenderism and disorders of sex development. Let me give them to you. First of all, a disorder of sex development can be clearly diagnosed. Usually, they are some genetic problem that is taking place, and they can trace it down to the gene. That\u2019s very different from modern-day transgenderism; modern-day transgenderism is all subjective\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Alan:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cWell, this is how I feel.\u201d \u201cOkay, I\u2019m trusting what you\u2019re telling me; I have no objective diagnosis,\u201d\u2014we need to be clear about this. There is no way that you can do a genetic test and look at a baby, genetically, and say, \u201cAha! This baby is going to be transgender,\u201d\u2014the science has no predictive value about that. There is no way you can do a brain exam and say, \u201cAha! This is a transgender brain,\u201d\u2014the science has no predictive value. We\u2019re all basing this on subjective evidence, which is a major, major distinction. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne of the key points in ethics is you want to treat different cases differently. A DSD [difference in sex development] is a different issue\u2014disorder of sex development is a different issue from transgenderism. All of us deal with effects of the fall in our body; right? Kids with a DSD deal with it much more profoundly, much earlier, so they need our grace and our mercy; but that doesn\u2019t mean that gender is not binary. In fact, the gender\u2014this is a case where the exception <em>proves<\/em> the rule\u2014the only reason we know that these kids have a DSD is because the rule is: \u201cThe gender binary, male and female,\u201d\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Alan:<\/strong> \u2014so the exception actually proves the rule. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Now, you have been studying this for\u2014how many years? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Alan:<\/strong> Oh, you know, for the last five years, I\u2019ve really made an intensive study of transgenderism. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You know, when I was reading your book. I\u2019m reading things I\u2019ve <em>never<\/em> read\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Alan:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014even the surgery and how that\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Alan:<\/strong> Oh, yes; it\u2019s painful. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014I mean, quite a chapter\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Alan:<\/strong> It\u2019s brutal. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014to read. What about the results? I mean, as people take hormone therapy or they go in and have surgery to change their\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014reassignment surgery. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Alan:<\/strong> Yes, that\u2019s right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014reassignment surgery\u2014what are the results? I mean, I don\u2019t know. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Alan:<\/strong> That\u2019s a great question. First of all, usually, what they\u2019ll tell you\u2014someone who has had gender-reassignment surgery\u2014is\/they will usually say they are pleased with the aesthetic results afterwards, because they look differently. They are usually pleased with that; but the data on the other comorbid psychological issues that go along with transgenderism\u2014here is what you need to know. Transgenderism has a whole bag of other problems that come with it\u2014depression\/suicidal ideation\u2014are very, very common. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLet me go ahead and tell you about this. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014even after the surgery? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Alan:<\/strong> Yes, it\u2019s common after the surgery. This\/let me explain what\u2019s going on. Here\u2019s what is happening. The secular people will say: \u201cWell, yes; people who have transgender identity have a higher level of suicidal ideation. Here is why; preachers at churches are saying things about sin, and that gives people guilt. They self-internalize the guilt, and they loathe, and they hate themselves.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, there was a huge study, coming out of Sweden. You will not find a more transgender-affirming country in the world than Sweden. They were looking at about 300-plus folks, who had gender-reassignment surgery\u2014this is 2011, I believe it was\u2014they were looking at what were the mental health outcomes after they had the surgery. What you found was: they were pleased with the aesthetics of the surgery; the suicidal ideation didn\u2019t go away; the mental health problems didn\u2019t go away. They were not in Southern United States\/the Bible belt; they were in Sweden. What you find is the comorbid mental health issues, that the surgery is supposed to fix, is not fixing the issue. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; in fact, there is a book that has come out recently by a left-leaning, gay-affirming, non-Christian\u2014and I bring that up only to say this is not somebody, who would be in our camp\u2014but she\u2019s written a book called <em>Irreversible Damage: The Transgender Craze that Is Seducing Our Daughters<\/em>. She\u2019s looking at the data\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Alan:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014and saying, \u201cBoy, there is something going on here, where girls, in particular, are being seduced into hormone replacement therapy and surgery.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Alan:<\/strong> Right; the other issue is puberty-suppressing drugs; this is brutal. These drugs were developed, years ago, to address kids who have precocious puberty. There are some children, for reasons we don\u2019t know, they go through puberty really, really early ages; and it\u2019s not the best scenario, because you want puberty to happen at the right age, where they can emotionally process things. Some drugs were developed in the early \u201880\u2019s to suppress puberty for those kids. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>I want to be clear; the drugs were developed for a morally-permissible use. Well, some folks in Holland started saying, \u201cHey, wait a minute. Some of these kids that are transgender\u2014what if we gave these drugs to them, and we just kept them from going through puberty?\u201d The idea is\/they say, \u201cPart of the problem\/he anticipatory burden of going through puberty is too great for these transgender kids. They don\u2019t want to go through these changes in their body, so we\u2019re just going to suppress puberty.\u201d What they\u2019ll tell you is this is completely reversible and that this gives the child to make up their mind if they want to embrace transgenderism or embrace their birth sex. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>The data shows that\u2019s not what happens. If they start taking the puberty-suppression drugs, they go to transgender. I mean, it\u2019s overwhelming data. Let me just tell you\u2014that\u2019s a <em>bad<\/em> idea. Children have lots of anticipatory burdens about a lot of things in puberty; but to suppress puberty\u2014and for the boys who want to become girls\u2014it gets very vicious. Let me explain what happens in gender-reassignment surgery. This is why puberty suppression is such a bad idea. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe physicians will take the boy\u2019s genitalia, and they will invert it into his body to create an artificial girl\u2019s genitalia. However, a boy who has been through puberty suppression, his body doesn\u2019t grow as large as it normally would; and there is not enough material there to do that. So then, what happens is they have to go and bisect a piece of the colon or of the intestine and use that to create an artificial female organ. This is brutal surgery; it\u2019s extensive\u2014all in the name of an expansive notion of transgender identity. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, at some point, we just have to stop and say, \u201cWait a minute! Isn\u2019t it a better game plan to say, \u2018We understand you feel this way, and we grieve with you. We know it hurts, and we love you; but let\u2019s find a way to try to embrace the image that God gave you. You\u2019ve got a fight the rest of us don\u2019t have, but we love you. We\u2019re going to be with you through this; but we\u2019re not going to mutilate your body to achieve this goal\u2019?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Now, I found it interesting\u2014and maybe, I\u2019m understanding this wrong in your book\u2014but it sounded like, when doctors even presented that to the person coming in, like, \u201cHey, this is how it\u2019s going to go, and I would discourage it,\u201d it seemed like you were hearing\/they said, \u201cI still want to go ahead.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Alan:<\/strong> If we\u2019re trying to understand transgenderism, these are real people; and we don\u2019t want to objectify them just as some sort of object. These are not\/these are human beings. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Alan:<\/strong> Some of them are, honestly, brothers and sisters in Christ, who experience gender dysphoria for whatever reason; okay. The challenge is\u2014if someone knows, up-front, how brutal the surgery is,\u00a0 but they still want to go through it, that should give us some idea of how terrible this distress is. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> They are desperate. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Alan:<\/strong> They are desperate; yes. That should cause us to have mercy and to show kindness. Now, the world says, \u201cWell, if you really want to be kind and merciful, then help them through this surgery.\u201d We\u2019re saying, \u201cNo, no; that\u2019s not the merciful and that\u2019s not the kind thing to do; but we do love you, and we don\u2019t hate you. We want to be kind to you.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob:<\/strong> I\u2019m thinking about parents, who are raising kids, who aren\u2019t experiencing any kind of gender dysphoria. But here is what they are experiencing: at age 13, or 14, or 15 in their school\u2014if they are not pro-transgender\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Alan:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014they are cancelled; they are haters;\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Alan:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014they are outcasts. How do we help our sons and daughters understand that it is <em>loving<\/em> to say, \u201cThis is not going to be good for these people. I think this is wrong, because it\u2019s going to hurt them and hurt them for the rest of their lives.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Alan:<\/strong> Well, truth is never popular in many cases; right? What we want to do, as Christians, is share the truth in love; and our demeanor does mean much. I think part of the challenge we have\u2014particularly in America, when it comes to issues just like you described, Bob, about \u201cHow do we stand for the right thing in the right way and endure the fact that we are very unpopular for it?\u201d\u2014it is we have a bit of challenge because this country had such a rich Christian tradition, where Christianity was celebrated as a good thing; but we\u2019re living in a day today, if you get saved, \u201cOh, well, you joined the haters\u201d; right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Alan:<\/strong> I think what we have to teach our kids today is, frankly: \u201cYou are now stepping into what Christianity is like for the rest of Christians outside of the United States around the world. Christians in Iran already face this. Christians in China already face this for other reasons\u2014it\u2019s not for transgenderism\u2014but it\u2019s for other reasons.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tTeach our kids that: \u201cIf you\u2019re going to live for Jesus, here is the truth: \u2018Yes, you can have a victorious life\u2019; here is the truth: \u2018The world is not going to be happy. Part of being a Christian is loving your enemies. We never have the liberty to be unkind; we never have the liberty to respond in hatred. We just have to tell our friends, \u201cI love you; I care for you. Jesus loves you. I know you are mad at me; I\u2019m not mad at you, and I care about you.\u201d\u2019\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think, more than ever before, we have to have these discussions with our kids\/with our families. We are in a culture now that we have to know where we are, where we stand, what God\u2019s Word says; and we have to disciple our kids and love them. I <em>love<\/em> that you\u2019re teaching our kids\/that we\u2019re teaching our kids: \u201cWe need to love people better, but also be firm in our stance in our biblical worldview.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Alan:<\/strong> That\u2019s true. It\u2019s true for churches as well because, listen, ministry is messy. I believe in evangelism, and I want people to share their faith in Christ; but sometimes, we forget that, when somebody gets saved, God doesn\u2019t immediately take away everything at once. Life can be really, really messy. Ministry is messy. If you are going to minister to people anywhere across the LGBTQ spectrum, it\u2019s going to be messy. They are going to have questions you didn\u2019t have to deal with before. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think the best thing that could happen for some churches is, right now\u2014they are arguing about the color of the carpet; or how we should do church government; or the preacher preaching too long, or expository, or topical\u2014they are grumbling about these things. What they need is for somebody, across the LGBTQ spectrum, to get saved and to come to church; and at Bible study, say, \u201cI\u2019ve got a question. I feel like I\u2019m still a male, but I\u2019m a female. What do I do with that?\u201d\u00a0 I mean, they are not going to be worried about the church governance anymore. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> The carpet won\u2019t matter. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Alan:<\/strong> Right; it won\u2019t matter. But in all seriousness, ministry is messy just like that. Jesus came into a messy world; so the church comes into all this mess, and we reach out to people in their brokenness. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere is a fabulous Japanese art form, where they take broken vases, and then they glue them back together with gold. Something that was broken is now more valuable when it\u2019s put back together than what it was when it was in its original state, because of the beautiful art form. <br><br>Well, this is what Christ does with people\u2019s lives. Across the LGBTQ spectrum\u2014and especially, people who have gone through gender-reassignment surgery\u2014what do you do?\u2014they\u2019ve gotten saved, and they kind of want to join the church. Well, God can take that brokenness and bring beauty out of it; the gospel is sufficient for that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Beauty from ashes\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Alan:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014is what Isaiah says. That\u2019s the glorious truth of the gospel. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And it may be messy\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Alan:<\/strong> It\u2019s <em>going<\/em> to be messy. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> It may not be a step by step: \u201cOh look, they are totally perfect now\u201d; it can be messy along the way. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I mean, you\u2019ve said it; I think it\u2019s key that we <em>lead<\/em> with grace. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Alan:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You\u2019ve got to have truth and grace. I think they are not going to listen to truth\u2014I mean, they\/anybody\u2014unless we <em>lead<\/em> with love\/<em>lead<\/em> with compassion. You\u2019ve been so compassionate every time you\u2019ve talked about this. That\u2019s where you have to start\u2014that they feel loved by the love of Christ, that they would be interested in knowing, \u201cIs there a truth that I\u2019m not seeing?\u201d\u2014\u201cYes, it is here\u201d; and \u201cBoth are equal,\u201d and \u201cIt\u2019s actually possible to be truth <em>and<\/em> grace.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Here is how we\u2019ve got to coach and train our kids\u2014because stop and think about it\u2014every parent, when your child is eight\/nine years old, you want your kids to have friends\u2014friends that they can connect with. They want to have friends and want to be popular. When you recognize that the rules of friendship and popularity today may require compromise to your faith in order to have friends and be popular, you can\u2019t be a Christian. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, what do you care more about\u2014that your kids follow Christ or that they have friends?\u2014here\u2019s what we\u2019ve got to be able to sit down with our kids and say, \u201cYou know what? Late elementary\/middle school, these are going to be <em>very hard<\/em> years. What\u2019s going to be in your heart, more than anything else, is you\u2019re going to want the other kids to like you. There may be things that you believe\/that we believe, as a family, that your friends are going to say, \u2018You can\u2019t believe that; you can\u2019t follow that and be popular.\u2019\u201d You\u2019ve got to prepare them for what\u2019s ahead. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> We <em>have<\/em> to disciple our kids, and we can\u2019t be passive in it\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014because the culture and social media\/they <em>are<\/em> discipling our children. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Alan:<\/strong> That\u2019s right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And it all starts with relationship. It\u2019s not: \u201cHere are the rules, and here is what we\u2019re going to do.\u201d It is: we are loving them; we are talking to them; we are teaching them God\u2019s blueprint and God\u2019s plan; and \u201cMan, we can be the light of the world.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Alan, this conversation has been so helpful\/so good. Thank you for the book. Thanks for being here and for coaching us on all of this. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Alan:<\/strong> It\u2019s been a great honor to be here, and I want to remind everyone that is listening that the gospel is sufficient for these things. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; thank you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI hope our listeners will get a copy of your book. The book is called <em>Affirming God\u2019s Image: Addressing the Transgender Question with Science and Scripture<\/em>. You can order the book from us, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY. Again, the title of the book by J. Alan Branch is <em>Affirming God\u2019s Image: Addressing the Transgender Question with Science and Scripture<\/em>. Order, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or call to order: 1-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLet me ask you to take just a minute and think back over the last 12 months. I mean, most of us would rather not think back over the last 12 months; it\u2019s been that kind of year; right? But my question for you is: \u201cHas <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> in some way been used by God in your life this year, with whatever you\u2019ve been going through\u2014in your marriage; raising your kids; extended family relationships; maybe, it\u2019s something you heard on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>; maybe, it\u2019s a resource you found on our website\u2014has God used this ministry to have an impact in your life this year?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf so, we want to ask you to make a generous yearend contribution to this ministry. Honestly, we need you; we need you to step forward and make a donation to be as generous as you can be in 2020 so that we can finish out this year in a healthy place financially. <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is dependent upon your donations for this program to be heard on this local station and for all that we do, here, at FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>. That\u2019s why we want to ask you to make a yearend contribution. When you do make a donation during the month of December, that donation is going to be matched, dollar for dollar, up to a total of $2 million. We hope to take full advantage of that matching-gift opportunity that has been presented to us this month by some friends of the ministry. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen you make a yearend donation, we\u2019d like to say, \u201cThank you,\u201d by sending you, first, a flash drive that has the top 100 <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> programs from the last \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t28 years. We\u2019ve gone through and selected the best programs from the last 28 years \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\ton marriage and parenting\/some powerful interviews we\u2019ve done with people, whose names you would know. This flash drive will include the top 100 programs. It\u2019s our gift to you when you make a yearend donation. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019ll also include a copy of, when you request it, my book, <em>Love Like You Mean It<\/em>, which is all about 1 Corinthians 13 and how those verses on love can be applied in a marriage relationship. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com to make an online donation, or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to donate. Again, your donation will be matched, dollar for dollar. You\u2019ll get the USB drive with the 100 top programs from <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> and a copy of my book, <em>Love Like You Mean It<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou\u2019ll be helping tens of thousands of married couples all around the world\/moms and dads as they raise the next generation. Thanks for your investment in this ministry at yearend. We look forward to hearing from you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow, we\u2019re going to hear a unique adoption story. In fact, I\u2019ve heard a lot of adoption stories over the years; and I don\u2019t know that I\u2019ve heard one quite like this. We\u2019ll introduce you to Holley and Mark Gerth tomorrow, and we\u2019ll hear their story. I hope you can join us for that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2020 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/306593","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=306593"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=306593"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=306593"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=306593"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=306593"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=306593"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=306593"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}