{"id":306584,"date":"2020-11-28T07:00:05","date_gmt":"2020-11-28T12:00:05","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/combatting-stress-in-marriage\/"},"modified":"2020-11-28T07:00:05","modified_gmt":"2020-11-28T12:00:05","slug":"combatting-stress-in-marriage","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-this-week\/combatting-stress-in-marriage\/","title":{"rendered":"Combatting Stress in Marriage"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>The year 2020 has been a year of forced togetherness&#8211;or forced isolation&#8211;paired with additional stress. Greg Smalley gives suggestions for ways to manage stress in marriage and grow together, rather than apart.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":0,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/d2c17sq0nj1f7e.cloudfront.net\/flw2020-11-28.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:28:00","filesize":"25.64M","filesize_raw":"26883143","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[10361,2860],"tags":[6768],"podcast_series":[],"cwp_profile":[9492],"series":[10388],"class_list":["post-306584","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","hentry","category-busyness-and-stress","category-hardship-and-suffering","tag-stress-in-marriage","cwp_profile-greg-smalley","series-familylife-this-week"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":false,"episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/10\/FLTW-Podcast-Cover-2-1400x1400-1-300x300-1.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/dts.podtrac.com\/redirect.mp3\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/306584\/combatting-stress-in-marriage","player_link":"https:\/\/dts.podtrac.com\/redirect.mp3\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/306584\/combatting-stress-in-marriage","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-this-week","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"dQTVE3VD31\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-this-week\/combatting-stress-in-marriage\/\">Combatting Stress in Marriage<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-this-week\/combatting-stress-in-marriage\/embed\/#?secret=dQTVE3VD31\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Combatting Stress in Marriage&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"dQTVE3VD31\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":false},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"kfairris@familylife.com","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/kfairrisfamilylife-com\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"The year 2020 has been a year of forced togetherness--or forced isolation--paired with additional stress. Greg Smalley gives suggestions for ways to manage stress in marriage and grow together, rather than apart.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/flw\/flw2020-11-28.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> In this season of the craziness of 2020, do you find yourself fighting more with those who are closest to you? Greg Smalley says there is a reason.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Greg:<\/strong> Anytime there\u2019s prolonged stress, and intense stress\u2014so a job loss\/health issues\u2014when you combine those, it increases conflict; it increases the bickering. We start to prescribe problems around the relationship, like, \u201cMaybe we didn\u2019t have a good marriage after all. Maybe we need to rethink this whole thing.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Does that sound a little familiar to you? Well, we\u2019re going to talk about the effect that this season has on marriages and relationships on this edition of <em>FamilyLife This Week.<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>\u00a0<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWelcome to <em>FamilyLife This Week. <\/em>I\u2019m Michelle Hill. You know, it was back in the 1950\u2019s\u2014there was a popular TV show by the name of <em>I Love Lucy<\/em>. You might have heard of it, or even have watched a few episodes, like when Lucy takes on the chocolate factory, or the one where Lucy stars in a commercial that has a health tonic; there\u2019s a little too much alcohol in it, and her husband didn\u2019t want her to star in it anyway. And then there\u2019s the one, where Lucy\u2019s husband, Ricky, is off of work for one week. Lucy decides that he needs to care for Ricky, Jr. Of course, you know, it\u2019s fun watching a dad bond with his child, but then comes bedtime. Ricky, Jr., didn\u2019t want to sleep at all. Moms, what would you do?\u2014would you step in?\u2014or would you just watch dad flame out?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, this idea brings up an interesting conversation; because it\u2019s what we\u2019ve been facing for much of this year. For a multitude of reasons, you moms and dads are working from home or you\u2019re just at home right now. Husbands and wives are having to figure out: how to do life, how to share responsibilities of the kids\/the house, how to communicate, how to live in close proximity. I know this is a strain. It\u2019s a stress that you want to keep your marriage strong; but it seems right now that that is on the back burner when there are so many other negative things that are vying for your attention, whether it\u2019s COVID, or social unrest, or other crazies that the year 2020 has brought up. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI wanted our conversation today to include Greg Smalley. Greg is the VP of Marriage at Focus on the Family<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>. He is married to Erin; and on non-COVID years, they are traveling a lot to talk to people about marriage; but this year, like you, Greg found himself at home, trying to figure out how to make things work smoothly with his relationships. Here\u2019s my conversation with Greg Smalley.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Previous Interview]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> How has that been for you?\u2014working from home.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Greg:<\/strong> Well, as an introvert, it\u2019s like I\u2019ve died and gone to heaven. [Laughter] I love it! When COVID first hit, it\u2019s incredible, like, \u201cReally? I don\u2019t have to go be around a bunch of people? I can be home.\u201d I\u2019m a homebody, so I love being at home. For me, it was just a matter of Erin and I\u2014my wife\u2014figuring out, sort of, who\u2019s going where; who\u2019s going to help manage the kids. Our youngest daughter is\u2014one left at home\u2014so who\u2019s going to help her with her homework and all that kind of stuff.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tErin\u2019s a therapist, so she took the nice office; because she does all of her therapy clients on Zoom. I\u2019m actually in the basement\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Okay!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Greg:<\/strong> \u2014which I love\u2014that probably sounds worse than it is. No; I love it. I\u2019ve got my own little set-up. I\u2019ve got a comfy chair, and I collect old sports antiques; I\u2019m surrounded by all of that. It\u2019s kind of like the man cave, so I\u2019m loving it. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> But did you have to work through\/did you and Erin have to work through some\u2014like, \u201cHey, this is how we\u2019re going to work it out\u201d? I mean, was that difficult when, all of a sudden, you\u2019re both working from home and your daughter\u2019s at home?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Greg:<\/strong> We did; we had to work through a lot of issues. I mean, we\u2019re both marriage therapists; we both run the marriage department of Focus on the Family; and yet, we realized there were a couple things that we\u2019ve done a good job to kind of keep buried. We\u2019ve had to deal with that; actually, started going to a counselor back in March\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Oh, wow!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Greg:<\/strong> \u2014you know, via Zoom.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Yes, yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Greg:<\/strong> We just went, \u201cOkay, we\u2019ve got to deal with this now,\u201d and \u201cWhy not now?\u201d I mean, we\u2019re off the road; we\u2019re not traveling; we\u2019re not doing all of the things that we would use to distract. It\u2019s been amazing! We\u2019ve grown; we\u2019ve learned; we\u2019ve dealt with some things. We had to dig into some past hurt between us and just figure it out! I love that we\u2019ve done the work, and we\u2019ve <em>grown<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYet simple things like figuring out who\u2019s going to\/you know, how are we going to manage our daughter? At the time, our son was a senior in high school; I mean, just all of that. You know, we\u2019ve had to talk through all of that and figure out things that feel good to both of us: \u201cWho\u2019s going to\u2026\u201d \u201cYes; are you going to be in the office, and I\u2019m going to be in the basement?\u201d It made more sense for me to do that, so it wasn\u2019t a big deal; but for others, there have been a lot of these conflicts that have been building up.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think, for so many couples, they\u2019re so good at avoiding their issues; and they\u2019ve created a life full of distractions\u2014kids, work, leaving the home, going out, spending times with friends\u2014that they\u2019ve been able to sort of not deal with issues. Being stuck together\/being quarantined together, has brought all of those to light; and they haven\u2019t been able to cope with them in the same way. It\u2019s caused couples to go, \u201cWe\u2019ve got to figure this out.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Greg:<\/strong> It\u2019s interesting.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> It\u2019s amazing to hear you talk; because what I\u2019m hearing is that, for the last six months, as we\u2019ve been going through COVID, and through some of the other stressors in life, you and Erin have used it to move <em>closer<\/em> to each other. Unfortunately, there have been a lot of couples, who have used it to grow <em>apart<\/em> from each other and magnify some of those issues that you guys have had to work through.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Greg:<\/strong> Yes; we\u2019ve felt fortunate in that. I think, for a lot of couples, the perfect storm through COVID has been\u2014any time there\u2019s prolonged stress, or chronic stress that lasts for a long time, and intense stress\u2014so a job loss\/health issues\u2014when you combine those, that puts <em>a lot <\/em>of strain and pressure on the individuals and <em>then<\/em> the marriage. So now, it increases conflict; it increases, you know, the bickering. We start to prescribe problems around the relationship, like, \u201cMaybe we didn\u2019t have a good marriage after all. Maybe we need to rethink this whole thing.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think, for a lot of couples, it has forced them to come to terms with: \u201cOkay, there are things that we\u2019ve buried,\u201d <em>or<\/em> \u201cThis is really stressful, and we\u2019ve got to figure out a new way to manage this stress.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Right; what do you say to those people, who are disconnected, and just don\u2019t know what to do next? They\u2019re just bickering all the time, and this has just brought up deeper, and deeper, and deeper issues.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Greg:<\/strong> Part of it is\u2014I think that in this quarantine season, for a lot of us, we\u2019re not really sure how to really take good care of ourselves. You know, I think about the things that I\u2019ve done typically just to figure out rest and what brings me life. For me, you know, being out\/going out hiking, fishing. You know, those things, typically, I do to take good care of myself; well, for so many months, I wasn\u2019t able to do those things.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019ve heard, again, people just talking about that: \u201cI don\u2019t <em>know<\/em> how to take good care of myself. Here\u2019s what I used to do; those things aren\u2019t available.\u201d You know, for Erin, my wife, Spin<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> Class was a <em>huge<\/em> part of how she just recharged and stayed full. Well, she couldn\u2019t do that. I think part of it is, we\u2019ve got to, first and foremost, figure out, \u201cHow do I need to take care of myself?\u201d It\u2019s not Erin\u2019s job; it\u2019s <em>my<\/em> job. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn the midst of all the stress\u2014like men and women handle stress very differently. Typically, for women, there\u2019s a thing called the tend-and-befriend phenomenon. When oxytocin and stress are both present, women tend to befriend and seek out their female friends, and they draw closer to their children. For men\u2014interesting\u2014when we get stressed, that\u2019s not exactly what we do; we typically want to isolate; we go into the cave. [Laughter] Even for me, you know, I\u2019m working in my cave\/my basement at home. I\u2019m having to realize that it\u2019s really tempting for me to stay here; to just disconnect and manage the stress that way. It\u2019s just not healthy! I\u2019ve had to be intentional to figure out different ways to do this. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, Erin and I\u2014one of the blessings has been that we\u2019ve started walking together. You know, we exercised alone; we did that a little bit differently prior to COVID. But one of the things that we\u2019ve been doing is walking together; that\u2019s where we catch up. That\u2019s where we\u2019ve been intentional to ask questions: \u201cWhat was the high of your day?\u201d \u201cWhat was the low of your day?\u201d \u201cWhat\u2019s one thing God has been teaching you?\u201d \u201cHow are you feeling?\u201d What I\u2019ve noticed is, for us as a couple, that\u2019s been something that\u2019s really, really connected us. Something about getting out of the house\/walking together\u2014the intentionality of us using that time just to stay connected, stay updated, stay current, and see what\u2019s going on. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe other part of how we use that walk time is just to keep working through the grief. <em>All of us<\/em> have experienced grief. You think about the losses; we\u2019ve <em>all<\/em> experienced losses. For some, it\u2019s <em>huge<\/em> job losses, health issues, death of loved ones; you couldn\u2019t be a part of the funeral. Our son, who was a senior in high school when COVID first hit, his basketball team made it to the Final Four first time in school history. They never got to play, and they were picked to win; that was a <em>huge<\/em> loss for him\/a <em>huge<\/em> loss for us. Vacations\/trips\u2014I mean, just stuff that we were going to do\u2014all of those losses compile. It keeps people frustrated; it keeps them on edge. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat Erin and I have been doing is\u2014on our walk, we just say, \u201cWhat\u2019s one loss you\u2019ve experienced?\u201d \u201cOh, really? Tell me more about that.\u201d And it has really made a big difference that we\u2019ve been able to <em>talk<\/em> about those, not to fix it! You know, in this uncertainty, there are no solutions that we can rely on; but what we can rely on is the fact that we know we\u2019re going to get out and walk together. We\u2019re just going to take 20\/30 minutes and just talk. It\u2019s something that has so connected us in a very different way.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat was part of what we had to <em>learn<\/em>\u2014is that hen Erin and I\/we do a lot of marriage seminars throughout the year. We realized that we were using traveling to events as a way to keep our marriage strong: we\u2019re off doing ministry together; we\u2019re staying in hotels; there are no kids; you know, we\u2019re exploring. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut at home, we weren\u2019t really being intentional with our marriage, going, \u201cHey, in three weeks, we go to another event, so let\u2019s plug into friends,\u201d \u201c\u2026let\u2019s really give our attention to the kids.\u201d Well, when our travel went away, we were like, \u201cWe don\u2019t even really know how to keep our marriage strong when we\u2019re <em>home<\/em>.\u201d Isn\u2019t it funny? That\u2019s, for us, what stood out. We had to figure out a new way, and that\u2019s why the walks have been <em>huge<\/em> for us. You know, I mean, date nights are still a little wonky; but the walking has really been <em>huge<\/em> for us. So just little things like that\u2014we have to figure out how to stay connected, and that\u2019s one of the things that really helped us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Studio]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> We\u2019re talking today with Greg Smalley about navigating those stresses in marriage during this hard season. We need to take a break; but when we come back, Greg is going to get practical with some <em>great<\/em> advice on how to lower the stress. We\u2019ll be back in two minutes. Stay tuned.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Radio Station Spot Break]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle: <\/strong>Welcome back to <em>FamilyLife This Week<\/em>. Today, we are talking about marriage and stress during this hard season. I am talking with Greg Smalley, Vice President of Marriage at Focus on the Family. He\u2019s also a marriage counselor, so he <em>knows<\/em> what he\u2019s talking about. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Previous Interview]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle: <\/strong>So how else can we lower the stresses in our lives right now? There have got to be other ways. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Greg:<\/strong> Continuing to figure out how we stay connected to church\u2014that\u2019s been hard for all of us. You know, a lot of churches are still meeting via whatever online platform. There\u2019s just a lot of disconnect; a lot of us feel disconnected from friends. I think the more that we can figure out: \u201cHow do we stay connected to our church family?\u201d and really choose to do that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m noticing <em>that<\/em> it\u2019s easy to get up and go, \u201cOkay; we\u2019ve got to watch church. There\u2019s this really cool preacher I heard about the other day; let\u2019s watch that!\u201d Erin and I have just been flipping around to different really awesome preachers and listening there; but that\u2019s not helping us to stay connected to our own church family. We try to do both; but I wouldn\u2019t lie and say, \u201cOh, yes, we do both every Sunday.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere have just been things\u2014like as social distancing has lifted a little bit\u2014we\u2019re, on the weekends, going hiking; and now I\u2019m fishing again. We have probably not done the greatest job of staying connected to our church family. That\u2019s a big part of how we cope with stress and, you know, keep growing, spiritually, with our church community. I know that <em>we<\/em> have to keep figuring it out. We haven\u2019t solved that, but I know that\u2019s a big area. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWith our friends, this has been a really hard season for extroverts, especially my wife\u2014huge extrovert\u2014you talk about the pain of just feeling confined at home. Like I said, I\u2019m an introvert, so I\u2019m like, \u201cWoo; woo! Another year of this!\u2014I vote for that!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> I never knew\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Greg:<\/strong> Yet, that\u2019s been really hard.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> \u2014I thought I <em>was<\/em> an introvert; because I expend all my energy at the office, and then I go home\u2014or maybe I\u2019m at Bible study or whatever\u2014I thought I was an introvert; because I would go home and be like [sigh], \u201cOkay!\u201d and not talk to anybody. Now, during COVID and all of this, I\u2019m realizing that I\u2019m the biggest extrovert that was ever alive. I think we\u2019re learning things about each other and ourselves\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Greg:<\/strong> Yes; amen.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> \u2014a lot during this time.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Greg:<\/strong> What great insight.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYes; I still am okay to be at home, and to hang out with my daughter\/hang out with my wife. We have a dog; she goes on the walks with us. But that\u2019s not healthy for me. That\u2019s, again, a part of me understanding: \u201cHow do I recharge? How do I take good care of myself?\u201d I\u2019ve had to be intentional with some of my guy-friends to go, \u201cHey, why don\u2019t you come over, masked-up, and let\u2019s watch a sports game,\u201d\u2014finally, they\u2019re back on\u2014or \u201cLet\u2019s watch a movie or something.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tTypically, I wouldn\u2019t do that; because, like you\u2019re saying, I get a lot of my social needs met at work\u2014just having to figure this out. I think what\u2019s important is that we just have to use this time to be aware\/just to notice. You know, if I\u2019m feeling depressed\/you know, if I\u2019m feeling anxious: \u201cWhat is that about?\u201d That\u2019s what I love\u2014that Erin and I\u2014on our walks, we can talk about these things.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m noticing how important it is for me to initiate: \u201cHere\u2019s what I\u2019m noticing about me; I\u2019ve noticed that I\u2019m kind of lonely. It\u2019s not about you; I think I miss some guy friends.\u201d I don\u2019t do that well. Erin\u2019s really insightful; she seems to be much more aware of where she is emotionally\/spiritually\u2014all of that\u2014than I am. It\u2019s just something that I\u2019ve had to be more intentional about\/is just to kind of think about: \u201cOkay; where am I? What\u2019s going on?\u201d and making sure that, as I talk to Erin, then we talk about: \u201cOkay, yes; I\u2019m going to go out tonight. Why don\u2019t you go out tomorrow night?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s hard for me, because I have to, then, call up a guy\/initiate that connection. It just takes effort, but I know now why that\u2019s important.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> You know, Greg, what I\u2019m hearing from you is that we are best when we are a full-orbed person\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Greg:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> \u2014you know, when we are working with our spouse, working through issues, and becoming best friends with them; but that we are also friends with other people. We need church; we need to be active in church. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhere is God in this? Because I have heard from a lot of friends, going, \u201cGod is silent right now.\u201d Help us tap into that. Where is He in all of this?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Greg:<\/strong> That was one of the things that we\u2019ve talked a lot about on our walks. I was hearing people say, \u201cMan, this has been the most <em>amazing<\/em> spiritual growth of my life!\u201d You know, \u201cI\u2019m less busy! I\u2019m less distracted, and I\u2019m so plugged into God. I\u2019m growing! I <em>feel<\/em> that.\u201d I was just going, \u201cReally?!\u201d because I\u2019ve never felt more distance in\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Greg:<\/strong> \u2014in, you know, I think, for Erin and I\/we did a good job of giving each other permission to be wherever. You know, God can certainly handle any of that. We know He\u2019s there; but it\u2019s been a hard season of just not understanding, \u201cWhat on earth? What happened to our country?\u201d And now, the civil unrest, and racial issues, and all of that. I can tell you this: \u201cI, 100 percent, know and trust that God is so present.\u201d You know, I love King David; and this is something that I just keep saying and repeating in Psalms, where King David says, \u201cYour beauty and love chase after me all the days of my life.\u201d What I love about that is that God is pursuing me; He\u2019s pursuing my wife; He\u2019s pursuing us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDo I know what exactly that looks like?\u2014I don\u2019t know\u2014I mean, there are moments I don\u2019t feel that; but I know that that\u2019s true, and so I <em>trust<\/em> that. I\u2019m not worried about the season; I know that God loves me; He\u2019s chasing me; He\u2019s going to grow me. And then I look around, and I think, \u201cMan, I\u2019ve grown as an individual in this season,\u201d\u2014having counseling\/went through some personal counseling\u2014Erin and I are growing. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf we don\u2019t like the way our marriage is right now: \u201cDo something about it.\u201d You know, there\u2019s always so much good help. Look at the ministry you guys have. You know, look what we\u2019re doing at Focus on the Family. There\u2019s so much good help out there, so pick an online course. There are so many good online events to go through; sit down as a couple; be intentional.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Greg, what would you say to a spouse, who is in a marriage where, especially, the pressures of all that we\u2019re facing now, that other spouse has checked out and has said, \u201cI\u2019m not going to get help; I\u2019m just checking out\u201d? How would you encourage them or even challenge them?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Greg:<\/strong> When you\u2019re in that season, the hardest thing that you have to understand is going on is\u2014that the more and more you feel the disconnect\/the more and more isolation you feel, the more disheartened you get. Understand that your heart continues to close. The wrecking ball of marriage is a hardened heart. You can\u2019t control your spouse\u2019s heart\u2014if it\u2019s open to you or not\u2014but you can control <em>yours<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI say that to go, \u201cThe first place that you have to work\/what you have to guard, King Solomon said, in Proverbs said, \u2018Above all else, guard your heart.\u2019\u201d What he\u2019s saying is: \u201cGuard it from closing.\u201d Part of your work has to be giving effort\/energy to: \u201cHow do I stay open? I\u2019m discouraged; I\u2019m tired of this; I\u2019m worn out; so what do I need to do to be sure that I\u2019m well cared for? What am I doing to rest? How am I finding life?\u2014things that give me life? How am I reaching out for support? How am I staying plugged in at church?\u201d All of those things you can control. What that\u2019s going to do is keep your heart open, so that you can keep working at this marriage. You don\u2019t have control of your spouse, but you can choose how you show up. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMy wife is the one, who will come and say, \u201cHey, let\u2019s go for a walk.\u201d I\u2019d be lying if I said I\u2019m so good at initiating that. [Laughter] She wants to connect with me. Instead of saying, \u201cHey, I feel disconnected,\u201d or \u201cGuy, why aren\u2019t you initiating connection?\u201d she comes and says, \u201cHey, let\u2019s go for a walk.\u201d \u201cWell\u2026\u201c \u201cNo; come on. Let\u2019s do it!\u201d \u201cOkay.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLook for ways to connect, whether that\u2019s simple things like cooking together, going for a walk, sharing the highs and lows of your day, to watching a movie together, to where you\u2019re just having fun\u2014just keep looking for ways. That\u2019s not a long-term solution; I get that; but if you stay well cared for, and make sure your heart stays open, boy, you can hang in there for a long, long time. God is a God of miracles, and we don\u2019t know what tomorrow\u2019s going to bring. If you keep pursuing your spouse, and asking for the kinds of things that you need and want, and doing those things in your marriage, you never know how that\u2019s going to turn the heart of your spouse around, or what God\u2019s going to do in their life.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, I can\u2019t predict what that outcome is going to be, but I can tell you this: \u201cYou\u2019ll be well cared for. That continues to buy you time. As long as you stay working at this, you just never know what\u2019s going to happen.\u201d That\u2019s, I think, the very best that you can hope for in this hard season.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Excellent words; <em>wonderful<\/em> advice. I feel encouraged! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGreg, thank you so much for taking the time to chat with me today; because as hard as life has been and all the stressors that have been thrown at us, I feel like your words today have encouraged me. I hope they\u2019ve encouraged some of my friends too.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Greg:<\/strong> Thank you so much. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Thank you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Greg:<\/strong> Thank you for your ministry. Thank you for your heart and passion for marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Studio]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Solid advice from Greg Smalley. I hope you are encouraged; and if, for some reason, this season with your spouse is exceptionally hard, take Greg\u2019s advice\u2014maybe seek counseling. If that\u2019s not possible, lean hard on God. Worry about <em>you<\/em>. Life is hard\u2014and I would never say that it\u2019s not\u2014but with God, all things are possible. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know that popular song right now?\u2014<em>Way Maker<\/em>. He <em>is<\/em> our way-maker. Always go back to 1 Corinthians 13. I know I\u2019ve been going through this riff a lot lately on <em>FamilyLife This Week<\/em>; but \u201cLove is patient. Love is kind. It does not envy. It does not boast. It is not proud. It does not dishonor others. It is not self-seeking. It is not easily angered. It keeps no record of wrongs.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThanks, again, to Greg Smalley for joining me today. If you\u2019d like, go to our website, FamilyLifeThisWeek.com\u2014that\u2019s FamilyLifeThisWeek.com. We have an interview with Greg and his father, the late Gary Smalley. The topic isn\u2019t about marriage; but it is fun to hear Greg interact with his dad, Gary, someone whom we all think very fondly of; because we\u2019ve learned from both Greg and Gary. Again, that\u2019s at FamilyLifeThisWeek.com.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOkay; so it\u2019s after Thanksgiving, and it\u2019s time to start thinking about Christmas. You may already have your tree up, and maybe the lights are twinkling. Well, next week, Bob Lepine is going to join me, and we\u2019re going to talk through <em>my<\/em> Christmas list this year. It\u2019s the year 2020, so anything could be on it! I hope you\u2019ll join us for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThanks for listening! I want to thank the president of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, David Robbins, along with our station partners around the country. And a big \u201cThank you!\u201d to our engineer today, Keith Lynch. Thanks to our producers, Marques Holt and Bruce Goff. Justin Adams is our mastering engineer, and Megan Martin is our production coordinator.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOur program is a production of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, and our mission is to effectively develop godly families who change the world one home at a time.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI'm Michelle Hill, inviting you to join us again next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife This Week.<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2020 FamilyLife. 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