{"id":306546,"date":"2020-11-13T07:00:05","date_gmt":"2020-11-13T12:00:05","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/the-marks-of-a-man\/"},"modified":"2020-11-13T07:00:05","modified_gmt":"2020-11-13T12:00:05","slug":"the-marks-of-a-man","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/the-marks-of-a-man\/","title":{"rendered":"The Marks of a Man"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Nathan Clarkson, points out 15 characteristics that join together to define a good man, including adventurous, devout, heroic, and emotional. He coaches parents who might be raising an artistic child like he was.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2020-11-13.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:26:42","filesize":"24.46M","filesize_raw":"25643002","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2826,2835,2090],"tags":[4698],"podcast_series":[8409],"cwp_profile":[9671],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-306546","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-men","category-raising-boys","category-special-needs-child","tag-manhood","podcast_series-good-man","cwp_profile-nathan-clarkson","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/306546\/the-marks-of-a-man","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/306546\/the-marks-of-a-man","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"2fKfLQ6cxv\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/the-marks-of-a-man\/\">The Marks of a Man<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/the-marks-of-a-man\/embed\/#?secret=2fKfLQ6cxv\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;The Marks of a Man&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"2fKfLQ6cxv\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2020-11-13.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2020-11-13.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> When we think about godly masculinity, Nathan Clarkson says there is not a one-size-fits-all portrait of what that\u2019s supposed to look like. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nathan:<\/strong> It\u2019s not about the clothes we wear; it\u2019s not about how tall we are; it\u2019s not about how muscular we are; it\u2019s not about if we can play sports, or if we can be in a play. Being a good man is an inward position. In whatever you love\/whatever your passion is\u2014be that football or drama\u2014God has put that desire in you. To be a good man, you have to live that out in the best way possible to use it for Him\/to use it to make the world a better place. That is what a good man does. It\u2019s going to look different for everyone. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Friday, November 13<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I\u2019m Bob Lepine. You can find us online at FamilyLifeToday.com. What is the part God wants <em>you<\/em> to play\/what God wants your sons to play in helping to make the world a better place? Do they have a vision for that? We\u2019ll talk more about that with Nathan Clarkson today. Stay with us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. You think you\u2019ve got manhood figured out yet? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Oh, yes; of course, Bob. I had it figured out at about 11 years old. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Did you? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes, I\u2019m one of those guys. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Wow; kind of a savant. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> No; I\u2019m a little older than 11, and I\u2019m still on that journey. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I think this is a perpetual journey for all of us\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014as guys. We\u2019re continuing to figure it out as life goes on. You don\u2019t get to a point, where you go, \u201cOkay; I\u2019ve got it\u201d; do you? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; it\u2019s interesting\u2014I mean, literally, in the last month, I sat down for the first time in my life with like a life coach\/counselor. Part of my journey was\u2014I\u2019m 62 years old\u2014I even said to him, \u201cI think it\u2019s too late,\u201d\u2014[Laughter]\u2014you know? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nathan:<\/strong> I\u2019m 31 and feel like that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I mean, I did; I was like, \u201cWhy am I doing this at this age?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI was sitting with two of my sons, three nights ago, and they both looked at me and said, \u201cWay to go, Dad. We are so proud that you\u2019re taking this journey at this age.\u201d I said, \u201cDon\u2019t you think it\u2019s a little too late?\u201d They were like, \u201cNo; I mean, we look forward to the next 20\/30 years with you in this insight,\u201d and \u201cThis journey is going to be..\u201d I thought, \u201cNo man has really ever figured it out. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> No woman has either.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cIt\u2019s always a journey.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes, I think it\u2019s both. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> No; women have figured it out <em>for<\/em> us men. [Laughter] That\u2019s how that works! [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> We <em>think<\/em> we have <em>you<\/em> figured out more than we have <em>ourselves<\/em> figured out. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Figuring it out, though, involves continuing to be on the journey\u2014continuing to explore themes\/continuing to look at these issues. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn fact, that\u2019s what we are talking about this week. Nathan Clarkson is joining us. Nathan, welcome back. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nathan:<\/strong> Thanks so much. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Nathan is an actor, a filmmaker; he\u2019s a writer. We mentioned that he\u2019s the son of a famous Christian author, Sally Clarkson. He has written a book called <em>Good Man<\/em>, which is a part of your attempt to say, \u201cWhat is it that I want to be as a man? What is it that God\u2019s calling me to be? \u2018I am His workmanship, created in Christ for good works which He prepared beforehand.\u2019 How do I live that out? How do I walk in these?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou\u2019ve identified characteristics that are the kinds of characteristics that you want to be true about your own life, your own journey, and your own pursuit. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nathan:<\/strong> Absolutely. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That\u2019s what this book is all about. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It\u2019s interesting\u2014I hadn\u2019t thought of it earlier\u2014but that scene\/we talked about movies\u2014very emotional scene in <em>Saving Private Ryan<\/em>, I think\u2014I should pull it up\u2014but it\u2019s that moment when he goes back to the tombstone. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nathan:<\/strong> Oh, yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> He looks at his wife and says, \u201cWas I a good man?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen the question becomes, \u201cWhat do you mean good man? What is it?\u201d You\u2019ve said, Nathan, \u201cI\u2019m going to write a book and try to hit the attributes, from God\u2019s perspective, of what a good man is.\u201d Give us some of those. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nathan:<\/strong> You know, I can never fully encompass everything God has asked us to be; but these are the ones that I have found in my life that fully\/kind of got from each angle what I wanted to be that got me close to the directions I wanted to walk in my life: there are things like adventurous; I think that men were born to tell a story, and we\u2019ve talked about that; I think wise\/I think men have to take hold of their own wisdom to study, to learn, to grow mentally; I think emotional is one of the chapters\u2014it talks about how men need to be in touch with their emotions\u2014that God created us with emotions. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Now, that is interesting. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nathan:<\/strong> Yes; you know, it\u2019s\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I can\u2019t believe my wife stopped you right there. [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I just have to stop you there\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Here we go! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I\u2019m stopping, as a woman, because we\u2019re like, \u201cOoh,\u201d because I think a lot of women: we want our men, not to be an emotional mess, but to show emotion. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nathan:<\/strong> Absolutely; I think emotions are human. You look at Jesus; Jesus wept, and I think that\u2019s one of my favorite verses in the Bible\u2014because it shows that Jesus wasn\u2019t just a monolithic: \u201cI\u2019m just strong and always do the right\u2026\u201d\u2014He showed that He had emotions, and He felt the pain that exists in this world. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think we all go through pain that exists in this world, and we have things that are hard and difficult. I think, if we don\u2019t process those, they are only going to have negative effects on our life. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So, why is it, Ann\u2014the only woman sitting in this room\u2014that you\u2014and I\u2019m guessing you represent a lot of women\u2014want your man to be emotional? Why is it that a <em>good<\/em> thing? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think what we want is your <em>heart<\/em>; we want to know what you\u2019re feeling\/why you are feeling\u2014for you to be able to express it. If I ask you, \u201cHow are you doing?\u201d and you\u2019re saying, \u201cFine,\u201d\u2014but we can <em>tell<\/em> that things are going on that you are mad, or frustrated, or sad\u2014we want to partner with you in that. Just to be strong and say, \u201cI\u2019m fine,\u201d\u2014it doesn\u2019t feel like you\u2019re our partner. Does that make sense? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nathan:<\/strong> Absolutely. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; what is it about a man that sort of wants to stuff it or not let it out, even to my wife, who I love more than anybody? What is it about us that\u2019s like, \u201cI don\u2019t know if I want to go there\u201d? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nathan:<\/strong> I think it\u2019s a multitude of reasons; but very often, when I look at my own life and why I say, \u201cI\u2019m fine,\u201d it\u2019s because I want to be seen as someone who has it together, who can figure this out, who can do it. Also, I take pressure on myself; because I want to help other people. I think, \u201cIf I show my weakness, then I can\u2019t be strong for them.\u201d I think there are a multitude of reasons. There is also just pride. I don\u2019t want people to see me as weak. I want to look strong in front of people. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI cover these kinds of things in other chapters\u2014like a chapter about honesty\u2014how men need to be honest. Part of that is acknowledging what we feel. Then authentic\u2014part of being authentic is being real about our humanity, and our mistakes, and our doubts, and our fears, and our failures. These all lead into men being truthful about who we are and the world we live in. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Let me ask you about the artistic side\/the creative side. This is very much a part of how God made <em>you<\/em> to be. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Nathan:<\/strong> Absolutely. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Sometimes, guys, who are artistic and creative, are seen as being less manly. Did you feel that, growing up? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nathan:<\/strong> Yes; not in <em>my<\/em> family\/my family is all very artistic and outside of the box. We play music and draw. I felt very at home in my family, so that was encouraging. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI remember I would go to school. When I became a teenager and moved into a new town, I wanted to experience and find friends and be with my peers. I remember being surprised at the very intense amount of bullying I received\u2014because I would sing\u2014because I would dance\u2014my hair was crazy, and I loved artistic things. I remember being surprised by that; because all I had ever experienced was: \u201cCreativity is good and beautiful.\u201d I remember being surprised by how much bullying there was as a result of creativity. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s interesting to see that men, oftentimes, have experienced bullying or negative reactions by living into, maybe, even into the way they were made to be that just doesn\u2019t fit the cultural mold of what they feel like they are supposed to look like. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dave:<\/strong> It\u2019s really sad that that sort of a cultural mold\u2014I mean, I know it was when I was in high school\u2014I think it is still there. I actually gave into the peer pressure; I mean, Bob, when you asked that question, I\u2019m like, \u201cOh my goodness!\u201d I was a creative, artistic guy; I was an athlete\u2014it was a really unique blend\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nathan:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014because that doesn\u2019t usually go. I remember I was in the high school orchestra\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nathan:<\/strong> Cool. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014played upright bass. I remember I played that because my mom made me when I was in sixth grade; she\u2019s like, \u201cYou\u2019re going to play this.\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cIt\u2019s the biggest thing, and we\u2019ve got to put it in the car.\u201d She got a special car with a flip down seat in the back\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nathan:<\/strong> Good mom. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014in the \u201870s; you know? I started playing [hums]; you know?\u2014Beethoven\u2014really getting a cultural exposure I <em>never<\/em> would have got. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tToday, I play electric bass, and it\u2019s because of that. That\u2019s cool\u2014electric bass is cool\u2014but upright bass\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nathan:<\/strong> Really cool; totally. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019ll never forget\u2014I was the quarterback of the high school football team. I talked all of my buddies on the team to come to a symphony orchestra concert at our high school. I\u2019m <em>proud<\/em>; I\u2019m up there, second chair\u2014I should have been first chair\u2014but I was second chair. [Laughter] Susie Cupp was first chair. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nathan:<\/strong> Little Susie. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019m playing beside her, and the cello is in front of us. We\u2019re playing this orchestral stuff in a bow tie and a tux; you know? I mean, I walked out afterwards, like, \u201cHey, man, what did you think?\u201d They were like, \u201cDude! What was that?!\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cWhat?\u201d \u201cYou are the most feminine\u201d\u2014they ripped me; I <em>quit<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nathan:<\/strong> Wow. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I was thinking, now, \u201cWow! The peer pressure from those guys, thinking I wasn\u2019t manly because I was artistic, stopped me.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Think about\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> How sad; you know? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014think about the 14-year-old in high school today, who hears on the announcements\u2014do they still do announcements once at the beginning of the school day? I don\u2019t know. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I don\u2019t know. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Do they have school, Bob? [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> But he hears, \u201cThis afternoon, if you\u2019re interested in trying out for the choir, there are choir tryouts in the gym,\u201d or \u201cThe play is having auditions if you want to be in the play,\u201d or \u201cThe cross country team is trying out.\u201d You think, \u201cOkay; those are my choices. I could go to choir rehearsal, or I could go to the play rehearsal, or I could go to cross country.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen you start to process, \u201cWhat are my friends going to think, based on those choices that I make?\u201d This is how the cultural mold of: \u201cWhat is real manhood?\u201d starts to push guys in a direction that may not be who they are supposed to be. Instead of leaning into, \u201cThis is who God made me to be. How can I, to His glory, be creative and artistic and be involved in music, or drama, or whatever else, instead of going out for the cross country team?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I think the culture has changed. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I do too. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Do you? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You look at one of the most manly men in movies today\u2014is an artist. Yet, you would say, \u201cOh, the Rock\u2014he\u2019s a man!\u201d He\u2019s an artist; he\u2019s an actor, who is really skilled at what he does. Obviously, he spends a lot of time in the gym; but I mean, I think it has changed, in some ways, for the good. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Well, Nathan, how would you coach a son? You don\u2019t have a son, yet; but if you have a son, how will you coach him to be himself if he is artistic, having gone through the bullying that you went through? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nathan:<\/strong> I think what I will remind him is that the world\u2019s always going to want to give an outward image as to what we should be; and this goes for men, for women, for everything. But you look at the verse that God says, \u201cMan looks at the outward appearance, but God looks at the heart.\u201d Ultimately, what I want to convey through this book is that: \u201cA good man will look different from man to man.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMy brother and I are almost complete opposites, but both of us have a desire to be a good man. I think that, when we have that in mind, and we realize that good man is an inward position\u2014it\u2019s an inward position towards God and who He has called us to be\u2014that it\u2019s not about the clothes we wear; it\u2019s not about how tall we are; it\u2019s not about how muscular we are; it\u2019s not about if we can play sports, or if we can be in a play\u2014that being a good man is an inward position. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI would tell him, \u201cWhatever you love\/whatever your passion is\u2014be that football or drama\u2014God has put that desire in you. To be a good man, you have to live that out in the best way possible\u2014to use it for Him, to use it to help\/use it make the world a better place. That is what a good man does. It\u2019s going to look different for everyone.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Do you feel any of it today as a man; because you\u2019re an actor\/you\u2019re involved in the arts today? Do you feel like\u2014if people say, \u201cSo what do you do?\u201d and you say, \u201cI\u2019m an actor,\u201d\u2014do you feel like people are automatically making a judgment about your manhood? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nathan:<\/strong> Not anymore. I definitely\u2014when I was younger\/when I was looking into what I wanted to do with the rest of my life\u2014I think there were things that I would judge my manhood off of\u2014you know, if my friend would go into financing, or this person would be doing this kind of thing, or that kind of thing\u2014I would think, \u201cWell, acting isn\u2019t what a real man does.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tEven just culturally, I went to acting school, and my friends went to college. I\u2019ve been insecure about: \u201cI don\u2019t have the college degree that everyone else has; so maybe, I\u2019m not as much of a real man.\u201d I think there is a lot tied up with what a real man is and isn\u2019t; but I always return to, ultimately, what God tells real men are is a heart position: \u201cHow are you going to use your skills?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And this is where, as parents and as\u2014even in our own assessment of our manhood\u2014we\u2019ve got to recognize we don\u2019t take our cues from what the culture says\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nathan:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014manhood is. We look at: \u201cWhat does the Scripture say?\u201d You keep coming back to 1 Samuel: \u201cMen look at the externals; God looks at the heart.\u201d Your book is full of character qualities that are godly character qualities; and \u201cA real man is a man who is a man after God\u2019s own heart and\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nathan:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cwho is trying to line his life up with: \u2018Who has God made me to be?\u2019 Whatever the outward expression of that\u2014if it\u2019s godliness\u2014then that\u2019s what we celebrate.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; and I think it\u2019s interesting\u2014you said earlier that, as you began to say, \u201cOkay; what\u2019s a good man?\u201d you said, \u201cJesus a good man.\u201d Was there any of these qualities or characteristics that sort of surprised you?\u2014like, \u201cBoy; I didn\u2019t expect to find that!\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nathan:<\/strong> Yes; I know, actually, many of them. There are a few of them that we\u2019ve heard of often: \u201cadventurous\u201d\u2014and we think of that and \u201cOf course, that\u2019s a manly quality,\u201d\u2014but some of these did take me by surprise as I went back and looked at the aspects of Jesus that inspired me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe ones like \u201csimple\u201d; because I think, as men, we want to gain, and achieve, and show, and have trophies and things of accomplishment. Jesus was a simple man; He barely left the town He grew up in. He would hang out with very simple people, and loved children and the people very near Him.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think the one: \u201cemotional.\u201d We\u2019ve gone over that; but that\u2019s not something you think of when you think of a strong man is one who can be brave enough to be emotional. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think \u201cauthentic,\u201d the one who is willing to be honest about his humanity. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThese are all the ones that surprised me, because they are so different than what the image of men we\u2019ve been given from many places, both\u2014often, our churches and in culture\u2014of what we\u2019re supposed to look like. When I look at Jesus, that is an entirely different picture than what I\u2019ve been given, very often. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> One that I found in there that surprised <em>me<\/em>\u2014I mean, I like it\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014was romantic? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; that\u2019s it! [Laughter] I knew she would get it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nathan:<\/strong> You knew it! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> She was going to jump on it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> It\u2019s like, \u201cOoh, what\u2019s that one about?!\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; so talk about that a little bit, because the cultural image is men are about sex\u2014they have many sex partners. There is even an aspect that a real man has money,\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nathan:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014has women, has success. I mean, that\u2019s the culture. I mean, I\u2014obviously, 33 years in the NFL, working with men\u2014that was their vision: \u201cI mean, I\u2019m now a man; I have the car.\u201d There is a peer pressure in the NFL locker room that\u2019s just like in middle school. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nathan:<\/strong> Oh, yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cOh, dude; you\u2019d better go get the car,\u201d \u201cLike, yesterday, I was in college,\u201d \u201cYes; but you just got the bonus check. Let\u2019s go!\u201d You can see these rookies, like, \u201cGo where? Why? I don\u2019t need the..\u201d\u2014\u201cLet\u2019s go!\u201d They come driving back with a $100,000 car, and then \u201cLet\u2019s go to the strip club.\u201d Literally, land the plane from a road trip; guys will go to the strip clubs\u2014married men. It\u2019s like this peer pressure was like\u2014they had to fight against it\u2014but that was like, \u201cThis is what men are.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nathan:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You\u2019re saying: \u201cNo; that\u2019s not what a man is. Romance is totally different than a sexual-driven crazy man.\u201d What\u2019s it mean to be a good man, who is romantic?\u2014all the women are asking. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> [whispering] Yes; we are. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nathan:<\/strong> This was an interesting chapter to write because it\u2019s so nuanced. There are so many feelings about it from every different angle. Romance and love is such a big part of the human experience\u2014either the lack thereof or people who have it and are in relationships\u2014we know what an important aspect and a meaningful one this is to the human experience. To ignore it\u2014when talking about men, and their journeys, and their lives\u2014would be disingenuous. So I wanted to explore this and \u201cHow do we do this right?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, it goes back to that creation aspect. God created something beautiful; that\u2019s romance, love, sexuality. These are wonderful things that God created; but to fully live into the way He made them to be lived out\u2014to enjoy them and to live them out in the way He created them\u2014we have to go back to His design and to look at it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn the world today, we see that men have walked away, in large part, from everything that God has created all of these things for\u2014that\u2019s very sad I think\u2014because, one, I think you end up with a lot of destruction from both women and men, who have fallen into the world\u2019s very cheap and low view of romance, relationships, sexuality, etc. It leads to a lot of really hurt people, and I think we see that every single day. Two, I think that all these things are made to be a blessing\/to be beautiful things in our lives. When we use them in ways that God has not created them for, we\u2019ll never get to live fully into that beautiful blessing that He\u2019s given. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think this is a really important thing that I see men struggling with every day. I think\u2014you look at the statistics, even with Christian men\/even with pastors\u2014about pornography. You look at\u2014I lived in Los Angeles and New York\u2014I have for the past over a decade now. I\u2019m surrounded by men who abuse women\u2014who objectify them\/who hurt them\u2014but they take it very lightly in the hookup culture. You see these hearts being broken <em>daily<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI look around, and I see how men <em>think<\/em> about relationships and love. It really is sad, because you see this have a really negative effect on culture and the lives of the people engaging in this culture. I wanted to look and say: \u201cWhat did God create love to be?\u201d and \u201cHow does that bless a man\u2019s life?\u201d and \u201cHow can he bless the world through how he carries out romance, love, attraction, sexuality?\u201d\u2014all these things are so intrinsic to being a man, because I think they are <em>really<\/em> important. I think men are reeling from the destruction of using God\u2019s gift in an incorrect way. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; there\u2019s part of me that thinks\u2014tell me if I am right\u2014and you\u2019ve got it in your book in a different way\u2014but I was listening to you, thinking, \u201cA real man\/a good man is intimate.\u201d You say it: \u201cemotional\u201d \u201cauthentic.\u201d But I think it\u2019s a real struggle for men; it is for me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nathan:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Intimate means \u201cI will be vulnerable,\u201d and you\u2019re not going to be that with \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t100 people. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nathan:<\/strong> No; no. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You\u2019re going to be that with a few\u2014but especially my wife, or a good friend, or two\u2014which means I\u2019m going to share weakness; I\u2019m going to go places that are really scary with my struggle, and share that with my wife or with a best friend. I think men are <em>terrified<\/em>. I know I\u2019m <em>terrified<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Why? What\u2019s terrifying about that? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It\u2019s <em>scary<\/em> to be that weak and that vulnerable. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, it feels <em>weak<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It\u2019s weak. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nathan:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It\u2019s like, \u201cI don\u2019t know where this may go. What if I really expose the inner\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nathan:<\/strong> \u201cWhat if I get hurt?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u201cI don\u2019t know if I can trust you.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nathan:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Even your wife, after all these years; so you don\u2019t go there. She is <em>longing<\/em> for it, but you don\u2019t go there. Because you\u2019re not going there, or afraid to go there, or unwilling, you go to porn\u2014cheap form of intimacy. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nathan:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It\u2019s not intimate\u2014it seems like it is, but it isn\u2019t\u2014that\u2019s easier. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nathan:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It\u2019s a defense mechanism to cope with: \u201cI can\u2019t be the good man God has called me to be.\u201d Yet, if I will\u2014oh my goodness\u2014when I thrive as a man, my marriage will thrive; my brotherly relationships will; everything will thrive\u2014but it\u2019s a <em>risk<\/em> that\u2019s scary for men to take. If I do it, guess what?\u2014I\u2019ll be more romantic than ever, because I\u2019m going to\u2014romance is about loving and serving <em>her<\/em> needs, not mine\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nathan:<\/strong> \u2014giving. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014and thinking outside of myself. That comes out of being able to be truly intimate. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You know, a couple years ago, Dennis Rainey wrote a book called <em>Stepping Up: A Call to Courageous Manhood<\/em>. We did a video series around this because we knew guys were wrestling with something inside of them, saying, \u201cI want to be a godly man; I just don\u2019t know exactly how to do that.\u201d We tried to get guys together; create a roadmap; help guys out with this. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne of the things I remember Voddie Baucham saying in that series is that guys tend to define manhood around three areas; he said, \u201cIt\u2019s around the billfold, around the ball field, and around the bedroom.\u201d He said, \u201cThey think that\u2019s what real manhood is,\u201d\u2014your success with your billfold, on the ball field, and in the bedroom. He said, \u201cThat\u2019s not God\u2019s design for manhood.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNathan, what you are doing with this book is\u2014you\u2019re taking us into that same territory and saying, \u201cLet\u2019s not buy the cultural picture here. Let\u2019s renew our minds with a biblical approach to what it means to be a man as God created us to be men.\u201d I think this is going to be so helpful for guys today. I\u2019m grateful you\u2019d come and talk with us about it and help us spend some time exploring this. I hope a lot of guys will dive into your book. Thanks for being here. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nathan:<\/strong> Thank you so much for having me. It\u2019s been an honor. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You can find out more about Nathan\u2019s book when you go to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com. The book is called <em>Good Man: An Honest Journey into Discovering What Men Were Actually Created to Be<\/em>. Order the book from us at FamilyLifeToday.com; or call to order: 1-800-FL-TODAY is our number. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAlso, check out the video series called <em>Stepping Up<\/em><em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup><\/em><em>: A Call to Courageous Manhood<\/em>, based on Dennis Rainey\u2019s book by the same title. That video series is available for groups of guys to go through together or for fathers to go through with their sons. Find out more at FamilyLifeToday.com, or order Nathan\u2019s book or the video series when you call us at 1-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSpeaking of small groups and video series, we are, this week, beginning to take preorders for the brand-new <em>Love Like You Mean It<\/em> small group series for couples. This is a ten-part series that\u2019s based on my book, <em>Love Like You Mean It<\/em>, which is all about what 1 Corinthians 13 tells us about what love is supposed to look like in a marriage relationship. We\u2019ve been very encouraged by the response to the book, and that\u2019s why we created this video series so that couples can go through this with other couples. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere is an assessment each of you can take to help you get an idea of where you\u2019re winning and where you could use some help when it comes to loving one another. David Robbins, who is the president of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> is here with us. David, we\u2019ve been talking about guys being good men today. A guy who would say to his wife, \u201cYou know, let\u2019s go through this study together with some other couples,\u201d\u2014that\u2019s what good men ought to do; don\u2019t you think? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> No doubt; and I think, if you want to be a man that leads your wife, then, being someone who rejects passivity and steps in and says, \u201cLet\u2019s do this together with a few other friends,\u201d\u2014there is <em>nothing<\/em> more attractive to a wife than that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob, you have done an <em>amazing<\/em> job setting up a series of conversations for a couple to have with other couples. We know\u2014we\u2019ve seen it time and time again, at FamilyLife\u2014that there is transformation when married couples join in with a few others and spend time together over timeless truth. You end up getting different perspectives in the mix\u2014people drive home, or in the Zoom call, talking about things that they don\u2019t normally talk about\u2014and transformation happens. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, again, we\u2019d encourage you to go to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com, for more information about the <em>Love Like You Mean It<\/em> video series; or call us if you have any questions at 1-800-FL-TODAY. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe hope you have a great weekend. I hope you and your family are able to worship together in your local church\u2014one way or another\u2014this weekend. I hope you can join us back on Monday when we\u2019re going to continue to look at what the Bible tells us about what real love looks like; specifically, we\u2019ll talk about the fact that love is kind, not just <em>nice<\/em> but kind. I hope you can tune in for that conversation on Monday. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back Monday for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2020 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:26:42"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["24.46M"],"filesize_raw":["25643002"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-306546.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-306546.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom 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Clarkson, points out 15 characteristics that join together to define a good man, including adventurous, devout, heroic, and emotional. He coaches parents who might be raising an artistic child like he was.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2020-11-13.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> When we think about godly masculinity, Nathan Clarkson says there is not a one-size-fits-all portrait of what that\u2019s supposed to look like. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nathan:<\/strong> It\u2019s not about the clothes we wear; it\u2019s not about how tall we are; it\u2019s not about how muscular we are; it\u2019s not about if we can play sports, or if we can be in a play. Being a good man is an inward position. In whatever you love\/whatever your passion is\u2014be that football or drama\u2014God has put that desire in you. To be a good man, you have to live that out in the best way possible to use it for Him\/to use it to make the world a better place. That is what a good man does. It\u2019s going to look different for everyone. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Friday, November 13<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I\u2019m Bob Lepine. You can find us online at FamilyLifeToday.com. What is the part God wants <em>you<\/em> to play\/what God wants your sons to play in helping to make the world a better place? Do they have a vision for that? We\u2019ll talk more about that with Nathan Clarkson today. Stay with us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. You think you\u2019ve got manhood figured out yet? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Oh, yes; of course, Bob. I had it figured out at about 11 years old. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Did you? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes, I\u2019m one of those guys. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Wow; kind of a savant. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> No; I\u2019m a little older than 11, and I\u2019m still on that journey. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I think this is a perpetual journey for all of us\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014as guys. We\u2019re continuing to figure it out as life goes on. You don\u2019t get to a point, where you go, \u201cOkay; I\u2019ve got it\u201d; do you? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; it\u2019s interesting\u2014I mean, literally, in the last month, I sat down for the first time in my life with like a life coach\/counselor. Part of my journey was\u2014I\u2019m 62 years old\u2014I even said to him, \u201cI think it\u2019s too late,\u201d\u2014[Laughter]\u2014you know? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nathan:<\/strong> I\u2019m 31 and feel like that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I mean, I did; I was like, \u201cWhy am I doing this at this age?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI was sitting with two of my sons, three nights ago, and they both looked at me and said, \u201cWay to go, Dad. We are so proud that you\u2019re taking this journey at this age.\u201d I said, \u201cDon\u2019t you think it\u2019s a little too late?\u201d They were like, \u201cNo; I mean, we look forward to the next 20\/30 years with you in this insight,\u201d and \u201cThis journey is going to be..\u201d I thought, \u201cNo man has really ever figured it out. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> No woman has either.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cIt\u2019s always a journey.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes, I think it\u2019s both. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> No; women have figured it out <em>for<\/em> us men. [Laughter] That\u2019s how that works! [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> We <em>think<\/em> we have <em>you<\/em> figured out more than we have <em>ourselves<\/em> figured out. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Figuring it out, though, involves continuing to be on the journey\u2014continuing to explore themes\/continuing to look at these issues. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn fact, that\u2019s what we are talking about this week. Nathan Clarkson is joining us. Nathan, welcome back. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nathan:<\/strong> Thanks so much. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Nathan is an actor, a filmmaker; he\u2019s a writer. We mentioned that he\u2019s the son of a famous Christian author, Sally Clarkson. He has written a book called <em>Good Man<\/em>, which is a part of your attempt to say, \u201cWhat is it that I want to be as a man? What is it that God\u2019s calling me to be? \u2018I am His workmanship, created in Christ for good works which He prepared beforehand.\u2019 How do I live that out? How do I walk in these?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou\u2019ve identified characteristics that are the kinds of characteristics that you want to be true about your own life, your own journey, and your own pursuit. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nathan:<\/strong> Absolutely. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That\u2019s what this book is all about. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It\u2019s interesting\u2014I hadn\u2019t thought of it earlier\u2014but that scene\/we talked about movies\u2014very emotional scene in <em>Saving Private Ryan<\/em>, I think\u2014I should pull it up\u2014but it\u2019s that moment when he goes back to the tombstone. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nathan:<\/strong> Oh, yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> He looks at his wife and says, \u201cWas I a good man?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen the question becomes, \u201cWhat do you mean good man? What is it?\u201d You\u2019ve said, Nathan, \u201cI\u2019m going to write a book and try to hit the attributes, from God\u2019s perspective, of what a good man is.\u201d Give us some of those. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nathan:<\/strong> You know, I can never fully encompass everything God has asked us to be; but these are the ones that I have found in my life that fully\/kind of got from each angle what I wanted to be that got me close to the directions I wanted to walk in my life: there are things like adventurous; I think that men were born to tell a story, and we\u2019ve talked about that; I think wise\/I think men have to take hold of their own wisdom to study, to learn, to grow mentally; I think emotional is one of the chapters\u2014it talks about how men need to be in touch with their emotions\u2014that God created us with emotions. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Now, that is interesting. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nathan:<\/strong> Yes; you know, it\u2019s\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I can\u2019t believe my wife stopped you right there. [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I just have to stop you there\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Here we go! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I\u2019m stopping, as a woman, because we\u2019re like, \u201cOoh,\u201d because I think a lot of women: we want our men, not to be an emotional mess, but to show emotion. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nathan:<\/strong> Absolutely; I think emotions are human. You look at Jesus; Jesus wept, and I think that\u2019s one of my favorite verses in the Bible\u2014because it shows that Jesus wasn\u2019t just a monolithic: \u201cI\u2019m just strong and always do the right\u2026\u201d\u2014He showed that He had emotions, and He felt the pain that exists in this world. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think we all go through pain that exists in this world, and we have things that are hard and difficult. I think, if we don\u2019t process those, they are only going to have negative effects on our life. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So, why is it, Ann\u2014the only woman sitting in this room\u2014that you\u2014and I\u2019m guessing you represent a lot of women\u2014want your man to be emotional? Why is it that a <em>good<\/em> thing? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think what we want is your <em>heart<\/em>; we want to know what you\u2019re feeling\/why you are feeling\u2014for you to be able to express it. If I ask you, \u201cHow are you doing?\u201d and you\u2019re saying, \u201cFine,\u201d\u2014but we can <em>tell<\/em> that things are going on that you are mad, or frustrated, or sad\u2014we want to partner with you in that. Just to be strong and say, \u201cI\u2019m fine,\u201d\u2014it doesn\u2019t feel like you\u2019re our partner. Does that make sense? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nathan:<\/strong> Absolutely. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; what is it about a man that sort of wants to stuff it or not let it out, even to my wife, who I love more than anybody? What is it about us that\u2019s like, \u201cI don\u2019t know if I want to go there\u201d? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nathan:<\/strong> I think it\u2019s a multitude of reasons; but very often, when I look at my own life and why I say, \u201cI\u2019m fine,\u201d it\u2019s because I want to be seen as someone who has it together, who can figure this out, who can do it. Also, I take pressure on myself; because I want to help other people. I think, \u201cIf I show my weakness, then I can\u2019t be strong for them.\u201d I think there are a multitude of reasons. There is also just pride. I don\u2019t want people to see me as weak. I want to look strong in front of people. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI cover these kinds of things in other chapters\u2014like a chapter about honesty\u2014how men need to be honest. Part of that is acknowledging what we feel. Then authentic\u2014part of being authentic is being real about our humanity, and our mistakes, and our doubts, and our fears, and our failures. These all lead into men being truthful about who we are and the world we live in. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Let me ask you about the artistic side\/the creative side. This is very much a part of how God made <em>you<\/em> to be. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Nathan:<\/strong> Absolutely. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Sometimes, guys, who are artistic and creative, are seen as being less manly. Did you feel that, growing up? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nathan:<\/strong> Yes; not in <em>my<\/em> family\/my family is all very artistic and outside of the box. We play music and draw. I felt very at home in my family, so that was encouraging. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI remember I would go to school. When I became a teenager and moved into a new town, I wanted to experience and find friends and be with my peers. I remember being surprised at the very intense amount of bullying I received\u2014because I would sing\u2014because I would dance\u2014my hair was crazy, and I loved artistic things. I remember being surprised by that; because all I had ever experienced was: \u201cCreativity is good and beautiful.\u201d I remember being surprised by how much bullying there was as a result of creativity. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s interesting to see that men, oftentimes, have experienced bullying or negative reactions by living into, maybe, even into the way they were made to be that just doesn\u2019t fit the cultural mold of what they feel like they are supposed to look like. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dave:<\/strong> It\u2019s really sad that that sort of a cultural mold\u2014I mean, I know it was when I was in high school\u2014I think it is still there. I actually gave into the peer pressure; I mean, Bob, when you asked that question, I\u2019m like, \u201cOh my goodness!\u201d I was a creative, artistic guy; I was an athlete\u2014it was a really unique blend\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nathan:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014because that doesn\u2019t usually go. I remember I was in the high school orchestra\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nathan:<\/strong> Cool. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014played upright bass. I remember I played that because my mom made me when I was in sixth grade; she\u2019s like, \u201cYou\u2019re going to play this.\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cIt\u2019s the biggest thing, and we\u2019ve got to put it in the car.\u201d She got a special car with a flip down seat in the back\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nathan:<\/strong> Good mom. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014in the \u201870s; you know? I started playing [hums]; you know?\u2014Beethoven\u2014really getting a cultural exposure I <em>never<\/em> would have got. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tToday, I play electric bass, and it\u2019s because of that. That\u2019s cool\u2014electric bass is cool\u2014but upright bass\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nathan:<\/strong> Really cool; totally. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019ll never forget\u2014I was the quarterback of the high school football team. I talked all of my buddies on the team to come to a symphony orchestra concert at our high school. I\u2019m <em>proud<\/em>; I\u2019m up there, second chair\u2014I should have been first chair\u2014but I was second chair. [Laughter] Susie Cupp was first chair. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nathan:<\/strong> Little Susie. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019m playing beside her, and the cello is in front of us. We\u2019re playing this orchestral stuff in a bow tie and a tux; you know? I mean, I walked out afterwards, like, \u201cHey, man, what did you think?\u201d They were like, \u201cDude! What was that?!\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cWhat?\u201d \u201cYou are the most feminine\u201d\u2014they ripped me; I <em>quit<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nathan:<\/strong> Wow. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I was thinking, now, \u201cWow! The peer pressure from those guys, thinking I wasn\u2019t manly because I was artistic, stopped me.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Think about\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> How sad; you know? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014think about the 14-year-old in high school today, who hears on the announcements\u2014do they still do announcements once at the beginning of the school day? I don\u2019t know. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I don\u2019t know. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Do they have school, Bob? [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> But he hears, \u201cThis afternoon, if you\u2019re interested in trying out for the choir, there are choir tryouts in the gym,\u201d or \u201cThe play is having auditions if you want to be in the play,\u201d or \u201cThe cross country team is trying out.\u201d You think, \u201cOkay; those are my choices. I could go to choir rehearsal, or I could go to the play rehearsal, or I could go to cross country.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen you start to process, \u201cWhat are my friends going to think, based on those choices that I make?\u201d This is how the cultural mold of: \u201cWhat is real manhood?\u201d starts to push guys in a direction that may not be who they are supposed to be. Instead of leaning into, \u201cThis is who God made me to be. How can I, to His glory, be creative and artistic and be involved in music, or drama, or whatever else, instead of going out for the cross country team?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I think the culture has changed. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I do too. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Do you? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You look at one of the most manly men in movies today\u2014is an artist. Yet, you would say, \u201cOh, the Rock\u2014he\u2019s a man!\u201d He\u2019s an artist; he\u2019s an actor, who is really skilled at what he does. Obviously, he spends a lot of time in the gym; but I mean, I think it has changed, in some ways, for the good. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Well, Nathan, how would you coach a son? You don\u2019t have a son, yet; but if you have a son, how will you coach him to be himself if he is artistic, having gone through the bullying that you went through? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nathan:<\/strong> I think what I will remind him is that the world\u2019s always going to want to give an outward image as to what we should be; and this goes for men, for women, for everything. But you look at the verse that God says, \u201cMan looks at the outward appearance, but God looks at the heart.\u201d Ultimately, what I want to convey through this book is that: \u201cA good man will look different from man to man.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMy brother and I are almost complete opposites, but both of us have a desire to be a good man. I think that, when we have that in mind, and we realize that good man is an inward position\u2014it\u2019s an inward position towards God and who He has called us to be\u2014that it\u2019s not about the clothes we wear; it\u2019s not about how tall we are; it\u2019s not about how muscular we are; it\u2019s not about if we can play sports, or if we can be in a play\u2014that being a good man is an inward position. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI would tell him, \u201cWhatever you love\/whatever your passion is\u2014be that football or drama\u2014God has put that desire in you. To be a good man, you have to live that out in the best way possible\u2014to use it for Him, to use it to help\/use it make the world a better place. That is what a good man does. It\u2019s going to look different for everyone.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Do you feel any of it today as a man; because you\u2019re an actor\/you\u2019re involved in the arts today? Do you feel like\u2014if people say, \u201cSo what do you do?\u201d and you say, \u201cI\u2019m an actor,\u201d\u2014do you feel like people are automatically making a judgment about your manhood? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nathan:<\/strong> Not anymore. I definitely\u2014when I was younger\/when I was looking into what I wanted to do with the rest of my life\u2014I think there were things that I would judge my manhood off of\u2014you know, if my friend would go into financing, or this person would be doing this kind of thing, or that kind of thing\u2014I would think, \u201cWell, acting isn\u2019t what a real man does.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tEven just culturally, I went to acting school, and my friends went to college. I\u2019ve been insecure about: \u201cI don\u2019t have the college degree that everyone else has; so maybe, I\u2019m not as much of a real man.\u201d I think there is a lot tied up with what a real man is and isn\u2019t; but I always return to, ultimately, what God tells real men are is a heart position: \u201cHow are you going to use your skills?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And this is where, as parents and as\u2014even in our own assessment of our manhood\u2014we\u2019ve got to recognize we don\u2019t take our cues from what the culture says\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nathan:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014manhood is. We look at: \u201cWhat does the Scripture say?\u201d You keep coming back to 1 Samuel: \u201cMen look at the externals; God looks at the heart.\u201d Your book is full of character qualities that are godly character qualities; and \u201cA real man is a man who is a man after God\u2019s own heart and\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nathan:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cwho is trying to line his life up with: \u2018Who has God made me to be?\u2019 Whatever the outward expression of that\u2014if it\u2019s godliness\u2014then that\u2019s what we celebrate.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; and I think it\u2019s interesting\u2014you said earlier that, as you began to say, \u201cOkay; what\u2019s a good man?\u201d you said, \u201cJesus a good man.\u201d Was there any of these qualities or characteristics that sort of surprised you?\u2014like, \u201cBoy; I didn\u2019t expect to find that!\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nathan:<\/strong> Yes; I know, actually, many of them. There are a few of them that we\u2019ve heard of often: \u201cadventurous\u201d\u2014and we think of that and \u201cOf course, that\u2019s a manly quality,\u201d\u2014but some of these did take me by surprise as I went back and looked at the aspects of Jesus that inspired me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe ones like \u201csimple\u201d; because I think, as men, we want to gain, and achieve, and show, and have trophies and things of accomplishment. Jesus was a simple man; He barely left the town He grew up in. He would hang out with very simple people, and loved children and the people very near Him.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think the one: \u201cemotional.\u201d We\u2019ve gone over that; but that\u2019s not something you think of when you think of a strong man is one who can be brave enough to be emotional. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think \u201cauthentic,\u201d the one who is willing to be honest about his humanity. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThese are all the ones that surprised me, because they are so different than what the image of men we\u2019ve been given from many places, both\u2014often, our churches and in culture\u2014of what we\u2019re supposed to look like. When I look at Jesus, that is an entirely different picture than what I\u2019ve been given, very often. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> One that I found in there that surprised <em>me<\/em>\u2014I mean, I like it\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014was romantic? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; that\u2019s it! [Laughter] I knew she would get it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nathan:<\/strong> You knew it! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> She was going to jump on it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> It\u2019s like, \u201cOoh, what\u2019s that one about?!\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; so talk about that a little bit, because the cultural image is men are about sex\u2014they have many sex partners. There is even an aspect that a real man has money,\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nathan:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014has women, has success. I mean, that\u2019s the culture. I mean, I\u2014obviously, 33 years in the NFL, working with men\u2014that was their vision: \u201cI mean, I\u2019m now a man; I have the car.\u201d There is a peer pressure in the NFL locker room that\u2019s just like in middle school. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nathan:<\/strong> Oh, yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cOh, dude; you\u2019d better go get the car,\u201d \u201cLike, yesterday, I was in college,\u201d \u201cYes; but you just got the bonus check. Let\u2019s go!\u201d You can see these rookies, like, \u201cGo where? Why? I don\u2019t need the..\u201d\u2014\u201cLet\u2019s go!\u201d They come driving back with a $100,000 car, and then \u201cLet\u2019s go to the strip club.\u201d Literally, land the plane from a road trip; guys will go to the strip clubs\u2014married men. It\u2019s like this peer pressure was like\u2014they had to fight against it\u2014but that was like, \u201cThis is what men are.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nathan:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You\u2019re saying: \u201cNo; that\u2019s not what a man is. Romance is totally different than a sexual-driven crazy man.\u201d What\u2019s it mean to be a good man, who is romantic?\u2014all the women are asking. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> [whispering] Yes; we are. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nathan:<\/strong> This was an interesting chapter to write because it\u2019s so nuanced. There are so many feelings about it from every different angle. Romance and love is such a big part of the human experience\u2014either the lack thereof or people who have it and are in relationships\u2014we know what an important aspect and a meaningful one this is to the human experience. To ignore it\u2014when talking about men, and their journeys, and their lives\u2014would be disingenuous. So I wanted to explore this and \u201cHow do we do this right?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, it goes back to that creation aspect. God created something beautiful; that\u2019s romance, love, sexuality. These are wonderful things that God created; but to fully live into the way He made them to be lived out\u2014to enjoy them and to live them out in the way He created them\u2014we have to go back to His design and to look at it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn the world today, we see that men have walked away, in large part, from everything that God has created all of these things for\u2014that\u2019s very sad I think\u2014because, one, I think you end up with a lot of destruction from both women and men, who have fallen into the world\u2019s very cheap and low view of romance, relationships, sexuality, etc. It leads to a lot of really hurt people, and I think we see that every single day. Two, I think that all these things are made to be a blessing\/to be beautiful things in our lives. When we use them in ways that God has not created them for, we\u2019ll never get to live fully into that beautiful blessing that He\u2019s given. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think this is a really important thing that I see men struggling with every day. I think\u2014you look at the statistics, even with Christian men\/even with pastors\u2014about pornography. You look at\u2014I lived in Los Angeles and New York\u2014I have for the past over a decade now. I\u2019m surrounded by men who abuse women\u2014who objectify them\/who hurt them\u2014but they take it very lightly in the hookup culture. You see these hearts being broken <em>daily<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI look around, and I see how men <em>think<\/em> about relationships and love. It really is sad, because you see this have a really negative effect on culture and the lives of the people engaging in this culture. I wanted to look and say: \u201cWhat did God create love to be?\u201d and \u201cHow does that bless a man\u2019s life?\u201d and \u201cHow can he bless the world through how he carries out romance, love, attraction, sexuality?\u201d\u2014all these things are so intrinsic to being a man, because I think they are <em>really<\/em> important. I think men are reeling from the destruction of using God\u2019s gift in an incorrect way. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; there\u2019s part of me that thinks\u2014tell me if I am right\u2014and you\u2019ve got it in your book in a different way\u2014but I was listening to you, thinking, \u201cA real man\/a good man is intimate.\u201d You say it: \u201cemotional\u201d \u201cauthentic.\u201d But I think it\u2019s a real struggle for men; it is for me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nathan:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Intimate means \u201cI will be vulnerable,\u201d and you\u2019re not going to be that with \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t100 people. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nathan:<\/strong> No; no. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You\u2019re going to be that with a few\u2014but especially my wife, or a good friend, or two\u2014which means I\u2019m going to share weakness; I\u2019m going to go places that are really scary with my struggle, and share that with my wife or with a best friend. I think men are <em>terrified<\/em>. I know I\u2019m <em>terrified<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Why? What\u2019s terrifying about that? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It\u2019s <em>scary<\/em> to be that weak and that vulnerable. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, it feels <em>weak<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It\u2019s weak. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nathan:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It\u2019s like, \u201cI don\u2019t know where this may go. What if I really expose the inner\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nathan:<\/strong> \u201cWhat if I get hurt?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u201cI don\u2019t know if I can trust you.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nathan:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Even your wife, after all these years; so you don\u2019t go there. She is <em>longing<\/em> for it, but you don\u2019t go there. Because you\u2019re not going there, or afraid to go there, or unwilling, you go to porn\u2014cheap form of intimacy. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nathan:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It\u2019s not intimate\u2014it seems like it is, but it isn\u2019t\u2014that\u2019s easier. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nathan:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It\u2019s a defense mechanism to cope with: \u201cI can\u2019t be the good man God has called me to be.\u201d Yet, if I will\u2014oh my goodness\u2014when I thrive as a man, my marriage will thrive; my brotherly relationships will; everything will thrive\u2014but it\u2019s a <em>risk<\/em> that\u2019s scary for men to take. If I do it, guess what?\u2014I\u2019ll be more romantic than ever, because I\u2019m going to\u2014romance is about loving and serving <em>her<\/em> needs, not mine\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nathan:<\/strong> \u2014giving. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014and thinking outside of myself. That comes out of being able to be truly intimate. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You know, a couple years ago, Dennis Rainey wrote a book called <em>Stepping Up: A Call to Courageous Manhood<\/em>. We did a video series around this because we knew guys were wrestling with something inside of them, saying, \u201cI want to be a godly man; I just don\u2019t know exactly how to do that.\u201d We tried to get guys together; create a roadmap; help guys out with this. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne of the things I remember Voddie Baucham saying in that series is that guys tend to define manhood around three areas; he said, \u201cIt\u2019s around the billfold, around the ball field, and around the bedroom.\u201d He said, \u201cThey think that\u2019s what real manhood is,\u201d\u2014your success with your billfold, on the ball field, and in the bedroom. He said, \u201cThat\u2019s not God\u2019s design for manhood.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNathan, what you are doing with this book is\u2014you\u2019re taking us into that same territory and saying, \u201cLet\u2019s not buy the cultural picture here. Let\u2019s renew our minds with a biblical approach to what it means to be a man as God created us to be men.\u201d I think this is going to be so helpful for guys today. I\u2019m grateful you\u2019d come and talk with us about it and help us spend some time exploring this. I hope a lot of guys will dive into your book. Thanks for being here. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nathan:<\/strong> Thank you so much for having me. It\u2019s been an honor. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You can find out more about Nathan\u2019s book when you go to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com. The book is called <em>Good Man: An Honest Journey into Discovering What Men Were Actually Created to Be<\/em>. Order the book from us at FamilyLifeToday.com; or call to order: 1-800-FL-TODAY is our number. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAlso, check out the video series called <em>Stepping Up<\/em><em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup><\/em><em>: A Call to Courageous Manhood<\/em>, based on Dennis Rainey\u2019s book by the same title. That video series is available for groups of guys to go through together or for fathers to go through with their sons. Find out more at FamilyLifeToday.com, or order Nathan\u2019s book or the video series when you call us at 1-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSpeaking of small groups and video series, we are, this week, beginning to take preorders for the brand-new <em>Love Like You Mean It<\/em> small group series for couples. This is a ten-part series that\u2019s based on my book, <em>Love Like You Mean It<\/em>, which is all about what 1 Corinthians 13 tells us about what love is supposed to look like in a marriage relationship. We\u2019ve been very encouraged by the response to the book, and that\u2019s why we created this video series so that couples can go through this with other couples. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere is an assessment each of you can take to help you get an idea of where you\u2019re winning and where you could use some help when it comes to loving one another. David Robbins, who is the president of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> is here with us. David, we\u2019ve been talking about guys being good men today. A guy who would say to his wife, \u201cYou know, let\u2019s go through this study together with some other couples,\u201d\u2014that\u2019s what good men ought to do; don\u2019t you think? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> No doubt; and I think, if you want to be a man that leads your wife, then, being someone who rejects passivity and steps in and says, \u201cLet\u2019s do this together with a few other friends,\u201d\u2014there is <em>nothing<\/em> more attractive to a wife than that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob, you have done an <em>amazing<\/em> job setting up a series of conversations for a couple to have with other couples. We know\u2014we\u2019ve seen it time and time again, at FamilyLife\u2014that there is transformation when married couples join in with a few others and spend time together over timeless truth. You end up getting different perspectives in the mix\u2014people drive home, or in the Zoom call, talking about things that they don\u2019t normally talk about\u2014and transformation happens. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, again, we\u2019d encourage you to go to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com, for more information about the <em>Love Like You Mean It<\/em> video series; or call us if you have any questions at 1-800-FL-TODAY. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe hope you have a great weekend. I hope you and your family are able to worship together in your local church\u2014one way or another\u2014this weekend. I hope you can join us back on Monday when we\u2019re going to continue to look at what the Bible tells us about what real love looks like; specifically, we\u2019ll talk about the fact that love is kind, not just <em>nice<\/em> but kind. I hope you can tune in for that conversation on Monday. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back Monday for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2020 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/306546","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=306546"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=306546"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=306546"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=306546"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=306546"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=306546"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=306546"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}