{"id":306518,"date":"2020-11-03T07:00:04","date_gmt":"2020-11-03T12:00:04","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/parenting-as-discipleship\/"},"modified":"2020-11-03T07:00:04","modified_gmt":"2020-11-03T12:00:04","slug":"parenting-as-discipleship","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/parenting-as-discipleship\/","title":{"rendered":"Parenting as Discipleship"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>A Christian&#8217;s calling is to make disciples, and for a parent your first disciples are your kids. Author Adam Griffin joins us to talk about a parent&#8217;s responsibility to love and disciple his\/her children. As seen in Deuteronomy, the Hebrews were commanded to talk to their children about the things of God at every opportunity. The key is for parents to live out their faith with passion. This doesn&#8217;t mean setting a perfect example, but modeling repentance and forgiveness when we fail.<br \/>\nShow Notes and Resources<\/p>\n<p> \tDownload FamilyLife&#8217;s new app! https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/app\/<br \/>\n \tFind resources from this podcast at https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/Products.aspx?categoryid=95.<br \/>\n \tCheck out all that&#8217;s available on the FamilyLife Podcast Network.\u00a0 https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/familylife-podcast-network\/<br \/>\n \tHave the FamilyLife Today\u00ae podcast and resources helped you?\u00a0 Consider becoming a Legacy Partner, a monthly supporter of FamilyLife.\u00a0https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/legacy<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Adam Griffin joins us to talk about a parent&#8217;s responsibility to love and disciple his or her children. This doesn&#8217;t mean setting a perfect example, but modeling repentance and forgiveness when we fail.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2020-11-03.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:25:22","filesize":"23.23M","filesize_raw":"24360780","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2891,2834,2806],"tags":[6962],"podcast_series":[8405],"cwp_profile":[9668],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-306518","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-making-memories","category-praying-for-your-children","category-spiritual-development","tag-raising-godly-kids","podcast_series-growing-in-family-discipleship","cwp_profile-adam-griffin","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/306518\/parenting-as-discipleship","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/306518\/parenting-as-discipleship","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"KCyCaThhye\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/parenting-as-discipleship\/\">Parenting as Discipleship<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/parenting-as-discipleship\/embed\/#?secret=KCyCaThhye\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Parenting as Discipleship&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"KCyCaThhye\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2020-11-03.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2020-11-03.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Who is most responsible for the spiritual training of your teenager? Is it you, as mom and dad, or is it the youth pastor at church? Adam Griffin says discipling our children is a team effort.\n\n<strong>Adam: <\/strong>The typical student minister is this 20-something, who can relate to kids; and he\u2019s super cool. There\u2019s not a problem with that, per se, unless you\u2019re missing out on what the Bible\u2019s called us to. The Bible\u2019s called us to equip the saints for ministry, including parents for the ministry they\u2019re called to, which is ministering alongside their teenagers. I believe church has a role there, but so does family. If we start to get those things mixed up, or we start to outsource to each other, then sometimes the kids get missed entirely; because the parents are counting on the church to do it, and maybe the church is counting on the parents to do it.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Tuesday, November 3<sup>rd<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I'm Bob Lepine. You\u2019ll find us online at FamilyLifeToday.com. How can parents and local churches work together more effectively for the spiritual development of children?\u2014and what is our particular role to play as parents? We\u2019ll talk more about that today with Adam Griffin. Stay with us.\n\nAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. Do you think there\u2019s a difference between parenting and discipleship? I mean, are they two <em>different<\/em> ideas?\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Wow, way to start deep.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Isn\u2019t that an interesting\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>That\u2019s deep.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014I was thinking about this; because of what we\u2019re talking about this week, family discipleship. I thought: \u201cIs parenting just making disciples? Is there <em>more<\/em> to parenting than making disciples?\u201d I guess there\u2019s the nuts and bolts of teaching somebody how to tie their shoes; but at some level, that\u2019s discipleship\u2014it\u2019s skill for living\u2014right?\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I mean, when you ask that question\u2014at first, I thought it\u2019d be an easy one, Bob; thanks!\u2014but I thought, \u201cNo, I think it is very closely the same thing. If you understand as a Christian father\/mother that your job is to make disciples, from Jesus\u2019 command to us, then they\u2019re very similar\/almost the same thing. Obviously, there\u2019s the parent aspect\u2014you\u2019re not their friend; you\u2019re their parent\u2014but you are called\u2014right?\u2014to be a mentor\u2014and you\u2019re discipling them one way or the other.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u201cAre you thinking through, \u2018This is my\u00a0 mission\u2019?\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I think, for the Hebrew culture, it was one and the same. Parenting <em>is<\/em> discipling\u2014it\u2019s like Deuteronomy 6\u2014\u201c\u2026as you talk about going along the way, as you lie down, as you rise up,\u201d\u2014that it\u2019s always a part of you, talking about Jesus\u2014and that goes right along with: \u201cThat is parenting.\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Adam Griffin is joining us this week on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>The expert; we can get the right answer! [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>That\u2019s right! Adam, welcome back.\n\n<strong>Adam: <\/strong>Thanks; it\u2019s great to be here!\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Adam is a pastor in east Dallas. He is an author\/has written a book with Matt Chandler called <em>Family Discipleship<\/em>.\n\nActually, I guess \u201cdisciple\u201d just means \u201cstudent\u201d; right?\n\n<strong>Adam: <\/strong>Yes; I think the one distinction I would make\u2014I think you\u2019re exactly right; you are <em>always<\/em> discipling, no matter if you believe in God or not\u2014you are discipling your kid in something they\u2019re learning to follow. The difference for the Christian is we don\u2019t just want a kid to follow <em>us<\/em>; we\u2019re trying to make a disciple of Jesus Christ. That\u2019s going to take some intentionality, to say, \u201cI don\u2019t want you to grow up and just be like your dad,\u201d\/\u201dI don\u2019t want you to grow up and just be like your mom. I want you to grow up and be like Jesus. That means\u2014since I am going to fall flat on that\/I\u2019m not going to make it all the way on that\u2014I\u2019m going to have to, also, demonstrate how your mom or your dad is going to be following Jesus as well.\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>How long has you been married?\n\n<strong>Adam: <\/strong>I\u2019ve been married for ten years.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Ten years; three boys at home, who are ages eight, seven, six.\n\n<strong>Adam: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Did you and your wife start off with a business plan for: \u201cWhen we have kids, this is what we\u2019re going to be doing\u201d? Did you have a discipleship plan in place?\n\n<strong>Adam: <\/strong>You know, when we first had our first son\u2014and I bet this is the experience of a lot of Christian parents\u2014we\u2019re like, \u201cWe\u2019ve heard all these stories about family devotionals and family worship; but now you have an infant, who doesn\u2019t speak English\/who can\u2019t use the bathroom. How do you disciple a kid when you can\u2019t have a conversation?\u201d\n\nWe talked about and had some great mentoring from my brother and some people in our lives, who said, \u201cYou know, when your children are born, their needs are very simple. That includes, spiritually, their needs are very simple. You\u2019re going to change them when they\u2019re wet; you\u2019re going to feed them when they\u2019re hungry; you\u2019re going to put them to sleep when you\u2019re tired; and you\u2019re going to pray for them when you\u2019re near them. You\u2019re going to think about them. You\u2019re going to read Scripture and bless them, and understand that they\u2019re not participating much in it.\u201d\n\nAs a parent, you get to start very, spiritually, simply with a child. As they get complicated and they get older, hopefully you also grow in your ability to lead that child as well. I feel like that\u2019s true for the Griffin family.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Part of what you were doing, even when your kids were little, was you were building into your <em>own<\/em> rhythm. You were habituating for yourself praying for your kids\/reading Scripture to your kids\u2014and making this a part of the organic practice of\u2014\u201cThis is just what we do, as a family.\u201d\n\n<strong>Adam: <\/strong>Absolutely. And it changed the way for me, personally, even without them involved\u2014a part of the milestone plan I have for my boys: I have a journal Bible for each one of them that I read through; I put notes in, and prayers in, and little insights into the Scripture that change the way I was interacting with the Lord; because I\u2019m now reading the Word, thinking about, \u201cWhat do I hope my sons know of God?\u201d Even before they\u2019re old enough to hear it from me, I am creating something that I\u2019m going to give them that\u2019s going to remind them of all the things their dad wants for them in the Lord.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>You have three Bibles you\u2019re doing that in right now?\n\n<strong>Adam: <\/strong>That\u2019s correct; yes.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Wow.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I like the idea, as we\u2019re talking about this, I think our walk with God does shift; because it becomes out loud in a way. Maybe you had your own quiet time and your devotional time\u2014you\u2019re reading Scripture alone\u2014but suddenly; I realized, \u201cI need to talk about this out loud with them, what\u2019s going on in my head. My prayers aren\u2019t silent anymore; they\u2019re out loud, in front of the kids, no matter what we\u2019re going through.\u201d\n\nThat could be just a simple step\u2014like you\u2019re just vocalizing more what you\u2019re feeling\u2014you\u2019re praying; you\u2019re seeing things. We would drive to school and I\u2019d be like: \u201cLook at this tree! Is God not <em>amazing<\/em> in the fall when it\u2019s this bright red?\u201d or \u201cLook at it snowing!\u201d and then we\u2019re praying on the way to school. It becomes more of a rhythm of: every day, we\u2019re just bringing God into the everyday.\n\n<strong>Adam: <\/strong>Absolutely. I think the dangerous side of that is that we might tempt parents to <em>fake<\/em> a version of that\u2014to say, \u201cHey, maybe you can put on a fa\u00e7ade that makes it look like you\u2019re some kind of super-Christian or that you are really impressed with a tree that you\u2019re not,\u201d\u2014[Laughter]\u2014no! There\u2019s a version of that that we\u2019re not trying to foster; we want people to <em>genuinely<\/em> be following the Lord. If you are an adult, who\u2019s genuinely following the Lord, why don\u2019t you do that in proximity to your kids and invite them into how that\u2019s happening?\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Let\u2019s talk about that; because one of the big problems that we\u2019re seeing with kids, who grow up in Christian homes and then hit young adulthood, is that a lot of them are spinning out. They\u2019re reporting back to us they were aware of hypocrisy in the home. If mom and dad really love their kids, and want their kids to follow Jesus, mom and dad need to be serious about their own faith walk.\n\n<strong>Adam: <\/strong>Yes! If you want to love your kids well, the first step is loving your God well. If you feel like, between you and God, there\u2019s something there that\u2019s not great, then you need discipleship in your life. You, as a parent, are not supposed to be this arrived\u2014just because you had a kid now, you\u2019re a full-grown adult with no problems\u2014no; <em>you<\/em>, too, need the Lord. I want to see a <em>genuine<\/em> walk with the Lord from any mom or dad, who\u2019s trying to disciple their kids. That includes somebody who\u2019s fluent and quick to repent: both to their kids, who they sinned against; but also to the Lord for where we made mistakes.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>As a parent, you\u2019re looking at your kids. I think all of us, as parents, have a longing for our kids to do well; we want them to thrive; we want them to do better than we\u2019ve done in life. We typically look at our own spiritual development and think, \u201cWell, this is about my walk with Jesus.\u201d\n\nNow it\u2019s bigger than that; now it\u2019s about your kids\u2019 walk with Jesus. Your walk with Jesus is going to be a key part of how well your kids do. It\u2019s not just: \u201cDoes this work for me?\u201d; but it\u2019s: \u201cI have to grow closer to Jesus; because I love my kids, and I want them to grow closer to Jesus.\u201d\n\n<strong>Adam: <\/strong>At the same time, we don\u2019t want a kid-centered version of my walk with Jesus. I don\u2019t want to read my Bible in front of my kids <em>just<\/em> so they\u2019ll see it. I\u2019m going to read my Bible because <em>I<\/em> am genuinely pursuing the Lord, and not hide that from my kids; but at the same time, not fake it just so they witness a version of it.\n\nThe marriage should be a place where we\u2019re pursuing the Lord together: praying for one another and demonstrating that to one another in sincerity.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>That puts a huge weight, in some ways, on the mom and dad; think about it. I remember\u2014boy, it had to be 20\/15 years ago\u2014as a pastor of a church, trying to help understand our youth ministry: \u201cHow do we get these high school kids to be on fire for Christ? Maybe it\u2019s not Sunday night we need; maybe it\u2019s Monday night. Maybe we should meet three nights a week!\u201d\u2014I\u2019m seeing all these different strategies\n\nThen, when you look at the actual data, to say, \u201cWhat kind of youth ministries produce adult men and women, who are walking with Christ?\u201d\u2014you know what the answer is? I\u2019m sure you know; it\u2019s youth ministries that, when they go home, they see it in their home. It really isn\u2019t: \u201cMeet Sunday night,\u201d or \u201cMeet Wednesday night,\u201d \u201cDo this in your meeting,\u201d or \u201cDon\u2019t do this\u2026\u201d\u2014I mean, those things obviously <em>matter<\/em>; you need to have a good church strategy\u2014but if they go home and they don\u2019t see it; or they see, like Bob said, hypocrisy\u2014there\u2019s a tendency that they do what they saw in their home.\n\nAgain, not that your church doesn\u2019t matter\u2014it\u2019s a <em>blending<\/em>\u2014but when I saw that, it\u2019s like, \u201cOh my goodness; it\u2019s on <em>us<\/em> [as parents].\u201d\n\n<strong>Adam: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>You know, we want to make disciples; we have to <em>be<\/em> disciples. Again, not perfect\u2014but they need see a mom and dad, or a mom <em>or<\/em> dad, or a blended family that\u2019s actually living this out\u2014it\u2019s going to help them live it out. Am I right?\n\n<strong>Adam: <\/strong>Yes; I could talk about that all day\u2014just the peer-centered student ministry idea we have, where: \u201cIf we just get them together with their friends, that\u2019s the best version of ministry,\u201d versus a home-centered student ministry that really thinks about: \u201cIf I want kids to know the Lord, as a pastor, I\u2019m going to invest in moms and dads <em>and<\/em> students,\u201d and \u201cI want to see that together.\u201d\n\nThe typical student minister is this 20-something, who can relate to kids; and he\u2019s super cool. There\u2019s not a problem with that, per se, unless you\u2019re missing out on what the Bible\u2019s called us to when you\u2019re telling your church that: \u201cThis is how we\u2019re going to minister to teenagers\u201d; because the Bible\u2019s called us to equip the saints for ministry, including parents for the ministry they\u2019re called to, which is ministering alongside their teenagers.\n\nI believe church has a role there, but so does family. If we start to get those things mixed up, or we start to outsource to each other, then sometimes the kids get missed entirely; because the parents are counting on the church to do it, and maybe the church is counting on the parents to do it. Then you have teenagers, growing up, going, \u201cAll I did was have buddies I got in trouble with at church. We went on trips; we did parties; but\u2026\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I think, too, as parents\u2014I know that I felt this as a young mom\u2014there is a sense, at times, of failing so often that I felt unworthy. I think parents can feel that. They think, \u201cWell, the church and the youth leader will be much better than I am at discipling my kids.\u201d Yet God is calling us to show, authentically, what the Christian life is like.\n\nI think, as we talk about the repentance piece, for kids to see our own mistakes\u2014and it happens early; I\u2019ve talked about this before\u2014but I mean, Dave was traveling a lot with the Lions; he was a pastor, starting a church. We were so busy; he was gone a lot. It was a night\u2014I think the boys were four, seven, and ten\u2014somewhere around there\u2014doing homework.\n\nYou know, Adam, this is crazy time, with three little boys. They\u2019re busy and they\u2019re active. I was at my wits\u2019 end; I was thinking, \u201cWhere\u2019s my husband? Why isn\u2019t he home?!\u201d That kind of takes you off on another whole spin. I had lost my patience. Something was spilled, and I got so <em>frustrated<\/em> that I put my hands in the air and was like, \u201cOh my goodness!\u201d I kicked the wall; and my foot went into the wall\/got stuck inside the wall.\n\nSuddenly, it\u2019s total quiet. They [sons] run to the wall; no one says anything. I am filled with so much shame, guilt, remorse\u2014everything you can think of as a parent\u2014and my youngest son says, \u201cMom, we had no idea that you were this strong!\u201d [Laughter] The next thing I thought was, \u201cMy husband\u2019s going to come home and see this,\u201d\u2014the pastor! I went to bed that night, and I\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Tell them what you did! Before you went to bed that night, she ran upstairs and got wallpaper and covered up the hole.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes!\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Just perfectly!\n\n<strong>Adam: <\/strong>Just the hole?\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Just the hole!\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I would have never known; it was just the wall.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>So Dave comes in. They all run to Dave and say, \u201cDad, it was the best night! Mom kicked a hole in the wall!\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>They pointed at it; put their finger through it. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Oh, it was <em>terrible<\/em>. But I think this is what parents go through; at least, I know a lot of moms go through this. I laid in bed that night and I thought, \u201cI am the <em>worst<\/em> mom; I am the worst <em>model<\/em>. I shouldn\u2019t even talk about <em>Jesus<\/em>; they\u2019re going to turn away from Jesus, because I messed up so much.\u201d\n\nI had already asked their forgiveness: \u201cYou guys, I\u2019m so sorry. This was <em>wrong<\/em>; I lost my patience. I shouldn\u2019t have done that.\u201d I prayed in front of them: \u201cJesus, I\u2019m so\u2026\u201d But what you fear is they will think it\u2019s <em>their<\/em> fault; they will think this is on them.\n\nI remember I kicked myself for about a week. I think, as parents, we just get into this rut, like, \u201cI can\u2019t do it; I\u2019m terrible.\u201d Yet, I think that there\u2019s a spiritual battle going on, where Satan\/the enemy of our soul speaks lies; we have our own lies that we\u2019re listening to. I think it\u2019s important that\u2014when your kids are quick to forgive, they\u2019re quick to see, \u201cOf course, you make mistakes!\u201d\u2014they see their own mistakes too. I think that\u2019s good\u2014that prayer and repentance\u2014we\u2019re not going to be perfect.\n\nBut don\u2019t live\u2014that\u2019s what I would say to parents\u2014\u201cDon\u2019t live in the shame and the condemnation. We are forgiven for that; Christ has forgiven us,\u201d and \u201cOur kids need to see us make mistakes and go back to apologize, and really, confess those.\u201d\n\n<strong>Adam: <\/strong>Amen. You\u2019re talking about being an <em>honest<\/em> parent\u2014and you\u2019re talking about being a strong parent\u2014I mean, you\u2019re kicking walls down. [Laughter] When you say, \u201c\u2026kicking yourself for a week,\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cMan, that must have hurt.\u201d [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes, exactly! Worse!\n\n<strong>Adam: <\/strong>Yes; but we\u2019re talking about being an honest parent and being honest about the mistakes you make.\n\nI should say, as a qualifier, there are versions of parental mistakes that I do believe can disqualify a person from being in a parental relationship of authority in somebody\u2019s life. I\u2019m not advocating that, no matter who your mom or dad is, you need to give them room to be in authority in your life. I think a lot of us can testify to that kind of background.\n\nBut when we think about the opposite\u2014if we let our mistakes be used against us, or we harass ourselves with them, or torment ourselves with them\u2014that causes us to inaction or to nonchalance to what we\u2019re called to; we disqualify ourselves. Then what are we resigning ourselves to?\u2014we\u2019re saying, \u201cMy kids would be better without me,\u201d\u2014we know that\u2019s a lie\u2014\u201cI shouldn\u2019t be their mom\u201d or \u201c\u2026dad,\u201d or \u201cThey need a different mom,\u201d or \u201c\u2026dad,\u201d or \u201cThis is not the kid that I want; I want a different version of this kid.\u201d\n\nLike you\u2019re saying: \u201cThese are lies that are so convincing\u201d; it\u2019s so easy to tend towards shame. Even though we could apply grace to somebody else, it\u2019s <em>really<\/em> hard sometimes to apply it to our own heart, especially in parenting; because we care so much. We love our kids so much that we want it to go so well; so when we make a mistake, it hurts <em>so<\/em> badly. Nobody can help or hurt a kid like a parent can; parents are so powerful, so it makes it seem almost insurmountable when we make a mistake.\n\nBut the beautiful thing is: one, there is no lost cause for the gospel of Jesus Christ, including in any parenting mistakes that we might make. Our kids can be often more forgiving than we give them credit for if we invite them into that honest relationship. They get that level of anger, and they understand that. Maybe they hold it against us, too, in their immaturity; but we have to take those things to the foot of the cross and say, \u201cLord, You have called me to this, so I need You to empower me for it; because You are going to be perfect in it, and I am not.\u201d\n\nNow, like you, you get to point to this\u2014I mean, I\u2019m sure you\u2019ve used this in a sermon illustration; it\u2019s so perfect\u2014the hiding of the sin behind the wallpaper. [Laughter] But now you point back to that, and now it\u2019s a milestone for your family: \u201cRemember the time Mom kicked the wall so hard she put a hole in it?\u201d You get to point back to the faithfulness of God in that moment\u2014that at the moment, you thought that was your low point\u2014and now the Lord points back to that and says, \u201cNo; this was the high point, where I\u2019m teaching you that you\u2019re not perfect; but your kids are going to remember how much you cared about them.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Can you come and live with us? [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Adam: <\/strong>Yes!\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Good!\n\n<strong>Adam: <\/strong>I\u2019m auditioning today to move in. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Is there a Griffin milestone? Are there stories like that from your family, that you point\u2014I mean, your family\u2019s still young\u2014but have you had some of those highlights?\n\n<strong>Adam: <\/strong>Milestones, we talk about in the book, sometimes for families are the greatest thing that\u2019s happened and sometimes it\u2019s the worst. You know, a milestone for your family can be when you lost a loved one or your kids\u2019 first funeral. It\u2019s not always a happy experience.\n\nThere are things\u2014I mentioned the journal Bibles\u2014there are things I\u2019m working on now for future\u2014but there are also things we do together. I think our kids would point back to some of the vacations or trips we\u2019ve taken as a family. As a pastor, I\u2019ve gotten to speak at camps; and my kids will sometimes get to go with me. They\u2019ll point to those moments of getting to sit in a room, where they hear me share the gospel with teenagers; and they get to spend the day with those teenagers, swimming in the pool or going hiking in the mountains. For <em>them<\/em>, that\u2019s the environment that I want to make the most grand impression on them, as a family.\n\nBut I think, to what you\u2019re talking about, Ann, I\u2019m always afraid that the memories they\u2019ll have are of my worst moments.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>Adam: <\/strong>That I could have a <em>hundred<\/em> great nights with my kids; but the one night I lose my temper, they\u2019ll grow up and be like, \u201cI remember my dad yelling.\u201d Every family has some version of dysfunction; so to pretend that there\u2019s a family out there, who doesn\u2019t, is also to believe a lie. Every family has some version\/and every person has some version of dysfunction.\n\nBut I want my kids to remember what\u2019s broken about me only in the sense of that I, too, in my humility, will admit that: \u201cYou\u2019re right; that was a problem that Dad had,\u201d or \u201cThat is a mistake that Dad made,\u201d and to remember those in the context of repentance, as a man, who follows the Lord imperfectly.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I think what you\u2019re saying\u2014it makes me think how important it is\u2014Ann said it\u2014to confess and repent so your children can see it. Again, you don\u2019t make up sin to do that; but I think real discipleship is authentic, honest, living in front of them. Don\u2019t hide\u2014and of course, it has to be age-appropriate as they get older; but being able to say, \u201cI struggled with this today\u201d; or maybe it\u2019s something they see readily, like a hole in the drywall; but maybe it\u2019s something that\u2019s more private.\n\nBut especially, as your boys\u2014I didn\u2019t have daughters\u2014as they\u2019re old enough to process, as a teenage mind, to say: \u201cLet me tell you something I doubted today with God,\u201d and \u201cHere\u2019s how I reconciled it, and got to a place where I\u2019m okay,\u201d <em>or<\/em> \u201cBoy, right now, I\u2019m going through something so hard; I\u2019m struggling believing God is good.\u201d Start a conversation, because you know they are\/they just don\u2019t believe Dad or Mom ever thinks like that\u2014but they do\u2014and God\u2019s there, and God meets them.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>We had a guest on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, awhile back, who said, \u201cAt family dinner, sometimes I will say, \u2018Let\u2019s talk about how we sinned today.\u2019\u201d He would always say, \u201cAnd I\u2019ll go first.\u201d He\u2019s trying to build a rhythm into what\u2019s going on in the family, where confession is normal\/where we\u2019re open and transparent about what we\u2019re dealing with.\n\nBy modeling it: \u201cI\u2019ll go first; here\u2019s what I struggled with\u2026\u201d and \u201cHere\u2019s how I responded..\u201d\/\u201dHere\u2019s what I had to do\u2026\u201d\u2014\u201cAnybody else?\u201d It\u2019s not that everybody has to do a confession there; but he\u2019s watched his kids start to feel comfortable, saying, \u201cWell, I did this\u2026\u201d or \u201cI was aware of that\u2026\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>That\u2019s so much better than we did! I would always be like, \u201cLet\u2019s talk about how Mom sinned today.\u201d [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Adam: <\/strong>\u201cMom put another hole in the house!\u201d [Laughter]\n\nI think what you\u2019re pointing out that he talked about\u2014is one of the things we talk about as we define family discipleship in the book\u2014is that the best version of it is mostly ordinary. It\u2019s not some superlative version of Christianity on display in your house; it\u2019s the normal\u2014you make it <em>normal<\/em> in your rhythm.\n\nIf I were now, with my kids\u2019 ages\u2014or if you guys were with your kids\u2019 ages\u2014the first time you sit down and say, \u201cHey, we\u2019re confessing sin at dinner tonight,\u201d that would be very abnormal, maybe, and very difficult. [Laughter] But if there\u2019s a way to build in a rhythm, where you don\u2019t give up, it\u2019s like anything else\u2014the first couple times you try something, it\u2019s going to be as difficult as it will ever be.\n\nBut the more ordinary it becomes\/the more normal it becomes\u2014to point out the beauty in nature, like you pointed out, Ann, this tree\u2014if that becomes a normal part of hanging out with Mom; or to point out confession at the dinner table; or point out Mom\u2019s sin, if we\u2019re doing that on a regular basis\u2014[Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Which I have to say, you <em>never<\/em> did that!\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>No, I <em>never<\/em> did that. [Laughter]\n\nWell, I\u2019ve shared it here on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> before\u2014and I won\u2019t go into it, but\u2014and it\u2019s in our parenting book\u2014the first time we found porn on the family computer\u2014and it wasn\u2019t me. Ann initially came to me and said, \u201cIs this you?\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cNo, so that means it\u2019s one of these three boys.\u201d\n\nThen, when the one confessed, it was that moment, like, \u201cOkay, here we are.\u201d I remember thinking my whole life, \u201cWhat will I do in that moment?\u201d I thought I would discipline or I\u2019d\u2014I wept; because I was like, \u201cSon, I\u2019ve been down this road; and here\u2019s what the road looks like,\u201d and \u201cHere\u2019s how a dad wins. Let\u2019s journey together.\u201d I think he was 13 at the time.\n\nAgain, looking back, I don\u2019t know what he would say about that moment; but it was a moment where Dad was real: \u201cThis is part of living, and here\u2019s a victory plan. You can\u2019t hide this. If you keep this in the dark, the dark will win. Once it\u2019s out into the light, Jesus can say, \u2018Let\u2019s heal, and let\u2019s work.\u2019\u201d That\u2019s a family discipleship moment.\n\n<strong>Adam: <\/strong>Exactly right. I think what\u2019s beautiful about what you just shared is\u2014not this\/you didn\u2019t prepare a sermon about how you\u2019re going to approach this with your son; you didn\u2019t come up with a version of, \u201cWhat\u2019s the perfect thing that Dad did here?\u201d\u2014it was how you responded to sin. If we think about family discipleship as modeling, as spending time, as leveraging these moments, how we respond to sin is going to be an opportunity we are going to have over, and over, and over again\u2014sin in our own hearts and the sin of our kids.\n\nI think about, in Scripture, where Christ talks about leadership. He says there\u2019s a version of leadership that the Gentiles do, where they use their authority is to lord it over others. We do that in parenting all the time: \u201cI have authority; I\u2019m going to lord it over you.\u201d But He says the difference in Christian leadership is to think of yourself as a servant. We think about: \u201cHow are we going to serve our kids?\u201d \u201cHow does my kid need to be loved in this tender moment\/this opportunity, where he\u2019s <em>busted<\/em>?\u201d Is it going to be: \u201cI\u2019m going to come down like the hammer\u201d?\u2014maybe, in some things, it is\u2014in this case, you\u2019re going gently and empathetically, like Christ\/like an empathetic high priest, saying, \u201cI know what it is like to walk in darkness; and we\u2019re going to walk in the light together, buddy.\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is one of the reasons why I think your book is so helpful for us, as parents, is because you help us think through things that we might not naturally think about. We have to be purposeful and intentional in these areas, and we need some coaching. Your book, <em>Family Discipleship<\/em>, does that.\n\nIn fact, we\u2019re making your book available this week to any <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listener, who would like a copy. If you\u2019re able to help with a donation to support the ongoing work of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, we\u2019ll send you Adam\u2019s book, <em>Family Discipleship: Leading Your Home Through Time, Moments, and Milestones. <\/em>It\u2019s our thank-you gift when you donate, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com or when you call to donate at 1-800-FL-TODAY.\n\nWhat you\u2019re supporting, when you make a donation, is the ongoing equipping and discipling of moms and dads and husbands and wives, in cities and in locations all around the world. People are connecting with <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> in so many ways; and you, as a listener, make that happen every time you make a donation. So thank you for your support; Adam\u2019s book is our thank-you gift if you can make a donation today. Again, the book is called <em>Family Discipleship<\/em>; and you can donate, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can call to donate at 1-800-FL-TODAY.\n\nNow, tomorrow, we want to talk about how we raise kids who can connect with their peers but may not always fit in; in fact, they shouldn\u2019t always fit in. How do we raise kids, who know how to stand for their faith, in the midst of peer pressure and influence? That\u2019s what they\u2019re facing today. I hope you can tune in for that tomorrow.\n\nI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\n<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\nWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\nCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2020 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\n<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\n\n1"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:25:22"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["23.23M"],"filesize_raw":["24360780"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-306518.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-306518.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f 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Griffin joins us to talk about a parent's responsibility to love and disciple his or her children. This doesn't mean setting a perfect example, but modeling repentance and forgiveness when we fail.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2020-11-03.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Who is most responsible for the spiritual training of your teenager? Is it you, as mom and dad, or is it the youth pastor at church? Adam Griffin says discipling our children is a team effort.\n\n<strong>Adam: <\/strong>The typical student minister is this 20-something, who can relate to kids; and he\u2019s super cool. There\u2019s not a problem with that, per se, unless you\u2019re missing out on what the Bible\u2019s called us to. The Bible\u2019s called us to equip the saints for ministry, including parents for the ministry they\u2019re called to, which is ministering alongside their teenagers. I believe church has a role there, but so does family. If we start to get those things mixed up, or we start to outsource to each other, then sometimes the kids get missed entirely; because the parents are counting on the church to do it, and maybe the church is counting on the parents to do it.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Tuesday, November 3<sup>rd<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I'm Bob Lepine. You\u2019ll find us online at FamilyLifeToday.com. How can parents and local churches work together more effectively for the spiritual development of children?\u2014and what is our particular role to play as parents? We\u2019ll talk more about that today with Adam Griffin. Stay with us.\n\nAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. Do you think there\u2019s a difference between parenting and discipleship? I mean, are they two <em>different<\/em> ideas?\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Wow, way to start deep.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Isn\u2019t that an interesting\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>That\u2019s deep.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014I was thinking about this; because of what we\u2019re talking about this week, family discipleship. I thought: \u201cIs parenting just making disciples? Is there <em>more<\/em> to parenting than making disciples?\u201d I guess there\u2019s the nuts and bolts of teaching somebody how to tie their shoes; but at some level, that\u2019s discipleship\u2014it\u2019s skill for living\u2014right?\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I mean, when you ask that question\u2014at first, I thought it\u2019d be an easy one, Bob; thanks!\u2014but I thought, \u201cNo, I think it is very closely the same thing. If you understand as a Christian father\/mother that your job is to make disciples, from Jesus\u2019 command to us, then they\u2019re very similar\/almost the same thing. Obviously, there\u2019s the parent aspect\u2014you\u2019re not their friend; you\u2019re their parent\u2014but you are called\u2014right?\u2014to be a mentor\u2014and you\u2019re discipling them one way or the other.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u201cAre you thinking through, \u2018This is my\u00a0 mission\u2019?\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I think, for the Hebrew culture, it was one and the same. Parenting <em>is<\/em> discipling\u2014it\u2019s like Deuteronomy 6\u2014\u201c\u2026as you talk about going along the way, as you lie down, as you rise up,\u201d\u2014that it\u2019s always a part of you, talking about Jesus\u2014and that goes right along with: \u201cThat is parenting.\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Adam Griffin is joining us this week on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>The expert; we can get the right answer! [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>That\u2019s right! Adam, welcome back.\n\n<strong>Adam: <\/strong>Thanks; it\u2019s great to be here!\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Adam is a pastor in east Dallas. He is an author\/has written a book with Matt Chandler called <em>Family Discipleship<\/em>.\n\nActually, I guess \u201cdisciple\u201d just means \u201cstudent\u201d; right?\n\n<strong>Adam: <\/strong>Yes; I think the one distinction I would make\u2014I think you\u2019re exactly right; you are <em>always<\/em> discipling, no matter if you believe in God or not\u2014you are discipling your kid in something they\u2019re learning to follow. The difference for the Christian is we don\u2019t just want a kid to follow <em>us<\/em>; we\u2019re trying to make a disciple of Jesus Christ. That\u2019s going to take some intentionality, to say, \u201cI don\u2019t want you to grow up and just be like your dad,\u201d\/\u201dI don\u2019t want you to grow up and just be like your mom. I want you to grow up and be like Jesus. That means\u2014since I am going to fall flat on that\/I\u2019m not going to make it all the way on that\u2014I\u2019m going to have to, also, demonstrate how your mom or your dad is going to be following Jesus as well.\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>How long has you been married?\n\n<strong>Adam: <\/strong>I\u2019ve been married for ten years.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Ten years; three boys at home, who are ages eight, seven, six.\n\n<strong>Adam: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Did you and your wife start off with a business plan for: \u201cWhen we have kids, this is what we\u2019re going to be doing\u201d? Did you have a discipleship plan in place?\n\n<strong>Adam: <\/strong>You know, when we first had our first son\u2014and I bet this is the experience of a lot of Christian parents\u2014we\u2019re like, \u201cWe\u2019ve heard all these stories about family devotionals and family worship; but now you have an infant, who doesn\u2019t speak English\/who can\u2019t use the bathroom. How do you disciple a kid when you can\u2019t have a conversation?\u201d\n\nWe talked about and had some great mentoring from my brother and some people in our lives, who said, \u201cYou know, when your children are born, their needs are very simple. That includes, spiritually, their needs are very simple. You\u2019re going to change them when they\u2019re wet; you\u2019re going to feed them when they\u2019re hungry; you\u2019re going to put them to sleep when you\u2019re tired; and you\u2019re going to pray for them when you\u2019re near them. You\u2019re going to think about them. You\u2019re going to read Scripture and bless them, and understand that they\u2019re not participating much in it.\u201d\n\nAs a parent, you get to start very, spiritually, simply with a child. As they get complicated and they get older, hopefully you also grow in your ability to lead that child as well. I feel like that\u2019s true for the Griffin family.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Part of what you were doing, even when your kids were little, was you were building into your <em>own<\/em> rhythm. You were habituating for yourself praying for your kids\/reading Scripture to your kids\u2014and making this a part of the organic practice of\u2014\u201cThis is just what we do, as a family.\u201d\n\n<strong>Adam: <\/strong>Absolutely. And it changed the way for me, personally, even without them involved\u2014a part of the milestone plan I have for my boys: I have a journal Bible for each one of them that I read through; I put notes in, and prayers in, and little insights into the Scripture that change the way I was interacting with the Lord; because I\u2019m now reading the Word, thinking about, \u201cWhat do I hope my sons know of God?\u201d Even before they\u2019re old enough to hear it from me, I am creating something that I\u2019m going to give them that\u2019s going to remind them of all the things their dad wants for them in the Lord.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>You have three Bibles you\u2019re doing that in right now?\n\n<strong>Adam: <\/strong>That\u2019s correct; yes.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Wow.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I like the idea, as we\u2019re talking about this, I think our walk with God does shift; because it becomes out loud in a way. Maybe you had your own quiet time and your devotional time\u2014you\u2019re reading Scripture alone\u2014but suddenly; I realized, \u201cI need to talk about this out loud with them, what\u2019s going on in my head. My prayers aren\u2019t silent anymore; they\u2019re out loud, in front of the kids, no matter what we\u2019re going through.\u201d\n\nThat could be just a simple step\u2014like you\u2019re just vocalizing more what you\u2019re feeling\u2014you\u2019re praying; you\u2019re seeing things. We would drive to school and I\u2019d be like: \u201cLook at this tree! Is God not <em>amazing<\/em> in the fall when it\u2019s this bright red?\u201d or \u201cLook at it snowing!\u201d and then we\u2019re praying on the way to school. It becomes more of a rhythm of: every day, we\u2019re just bringing God into the everyday.\n\n<strong>Adam: <\/strong>Absolutely. I think the dangerous side of that is that we might tempt parents to <em>fake<\/em> a version of that\u2014to say, \u201cHey, maybe you can put on a fa\u00e7ade that makes it look like you\u2019re some kind of super-Christian or that you are really impressed with a tree that you\u2019re not,\u201d\u2014[Laughter]\u2014no! There\u2019s a version of that that we\u2019re not trying to foster; we want people to <em>genuinely<\/em> be following the Lord. If you are an adult, who\u2019s genuinely following the Lord, why don\u2019t you do that in proximity to your kids and invite them into how that\u2019s happening?\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Let\u2019s talk about that; because one of the big problems that we\u2019re seeing with kids, who grow up in Christian homes and then hit young adulthood, is that a lot of them are spinning out. They\u2019re reporting back to us they were aware of hypocrisy in the home. If mom and dad really love their kids, and want their kids to follow Jesus, mom and dad need to be serious about their own faith walk.\n\n<strong>Adam: <\/strong>Yes! If you want to love your kids well, the first step is loving your God well. If you feel like, between you and God, there\u2019s something there that\u2019s not great, then you need discipleship in your life. You, as a parent, are not supposed to be this arrived\u2014just because you had a kid now, you\u2019re a full-grown adult with no problems\u2014no; <em>you<\/em>, too, need the Lord. I want to see a <em>genuine<\/em> walk with the Lord from any mom or dad, who\u2019s trying to disciple their kids. That includes somebody who\u2019s fluent and quick to repent: both to their kids, who they sinned against; but also to the Lord for where we made mistakes.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>As a parent, you\u2019re looking at your kids. I think all of us, as parents, have a longing for our kids to do well; we want them to thrive; we want them to do better than we\u2019ve done in life. We typically look at our own spiritual development and think, \u201cWell, this is about my walk with Jesus.\u201d\n\nNow it\u2019s bigger than that; now it\u2019s about your kids\u2019 walk with Jesus. Your walk with Jesus is going to be a key part of how well your kids do. It\u2019s not just: \u201cDoes this work for me?\u201d; but it\u2019s: \u201cI have to grow closer to Jesus; because I love my kids, and I want them to grow closer to Jesus.\u201d\n\n<strong>Adam: <\/strong>At the same time, we don\u2019t want a kid-centered version of my walk with Jesus. I don\u2019t want to read my Bible in front of my kids <em>just<\/em> so they\u2019ll see it. I\u2019m going to read my Bible because <em>I<\/em> am genuinely pursuing the Lord, and not hide that from my kids; but at the same time, not fake it just so they witness a version of it.\n\nThe marriage should be a place where we\u2019re pursuing the Lord together: praying for one another and demonstrating that to one another in sincerity.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>That puts a huge weight, in some ways, on the mom and dad; think about it. I remember\u2014boy, it had to be 20\/15 years ago\u2014as a pastor of a church, trying to help understand our youth ministry: \u201cHow do we get these high school kids to be on fire for Christ? Maybe it\u2019s not Sunday night we need; maybe it\u2019s Monday night. Maybe we should meet three nights a week!\u201d\u2014I\u2019m seeing all these different strategies\n\nThen, when you look at the actual data, to say, \u201cWhat kind of youth ministries produce adult men and women, who are walking with Christ?\u201d\u2014you know what the answer is? I\u2019m sure you know; it\u2019s youth ministries that, when they go home, they see it in their home. It really isn\u2019t: \u201cMeet Sunday night,\u201d or \u201cMeet Wednesday night,\u201d \u201cDo this in your meeting,\u201d or \u201cDon\u2019t do this\u2026\u201d\u2014I mean, those things obviously <em>matter<\/em>; you need to have a good church strategy\u2014but if they go home and they don\u2019t see it; or they see, like Bob said, hypocrisy\u2014there\u2019s a tendency that they do what they saw in their home.\n\nAgain, not that your church doesn\u2019t matter\u2014it\u2019s a <em>blending<\/em>\u2014but when I saw that, it\u2019s like, \u201cOh my goodness; it\u2019s on <em>us<\/em> [as parents].\u201d\n\n<strong>Adam: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>You know, we want to make disciples; we have to <em>be<\/em> disciples. Again, not perfect\u2014but they need see a mom and dad, or a mom <em>or<\/em> dad, or a blended family that\u2019s actually living this out\u2014it\u2019s going to help them live it out. Am I right?\n\n<strong>Adam: <\/strong>Yes; I could talk about that all day\u2014just the peer-centered student ministry idea we have, where: \u201cIf we just get them together with their friends, that\u2019s the best version of ministry,\u201d versus a home-centered student ministry that really thinks about: \u201cIf I want kids to know the Lord, as a pastor, I\u2019m going to invest in moms and dads <em>and<\/em> students,\u201d and \u201cI want to see that together.\u201d\n\nThe typical student minister is this 20-something, who can relate to kids; and he\u2019s super cool. There\u2019s not a problem with that, per se, unless you\u2019re missing out on what the Bible\u2019s called us to when you\u2019re telling your church that: \u201cThis is how we\u2019re going to minister to teenagers\u201d; because the Bible\u2019s called us to equip the saints for ministry, including parents for the ministry they\u2019re called to, which is ministering alongside their teenagers.\n\nI believe church has a role there, but so does family. If we start to get those things mixed up, or we start to outsource to each other, then sometimes the kids get missed entirely; because the parents are counting on the church to do it, and maybe the church is counting on the parents to do it. Then you have teenagers, growing up, going, \u201cAll I did was have buddies I got in trouble with at church. We went on trips; we did parties; but\u2026\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I think, too, as parents\u2014I know that I felt this as a young mom\u2014there is a sense, at times, of failing so often that I felt unworthy. I think parents can feel that. They think, \u201cWell, the church and the youth leader will be much better than I am at discipling my kids.\u201d Yet God is calling us to show, authentically, what the Christian life is like.\n\nI think, as we talk about the repentance piece, for kids to see our own mistakes\u2014and it happens early; I\u2019ve talked about this before\u2014but I mean, Dave was traveling a lot with the Lions; he was a pastor, starting a church. We were so busy; he was gone a lot. It was a night\u2014I think the boys were four, seven, and ten\u2014somewhere around there\u2014doing homework.\n\nYou know, Adam, this is crazy time, with three little boys. They\u2019re busy and they\u2019re active. I was at my wits\u2019 end; I was thinking, \u201cWhere\u2019s my husband? Why isn\u2019t he home?!\u201d That kind of takes you off on another whole spin. I had lost my patience. Something was spilled, and I got so <em>frustrated<\/em> that I put my hands in the air and was like, \u201cOh my goodness!\u201d I kicked the wall; and my foot went into the wall\/got stuck inside the wall.\n\nSuddenly, it\u2019s total quiet. They [sons] run to the wall; no one says anything. I am filled with so much shame, guilt, remorse\u2014everything you can think of as a parent\u2014and my youngest son says, \u201cMom, we had no idea that you were this strong!\u201d [Laughter] The next thing I thought was, \u201cMy husband\u2019s going to come home and see this,\u201d\u2014the pastor! I went to bed that night, and I\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Tell them what you did! Before you went to bed that night, she ran upstairs and got wallpaper and covered up the hole.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes!\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Just perfectly!\n\n<strong>Adam: <\/strong>Just the hole?\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Just the hole!\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I would have never known; it was just the wall.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>So Dave comes in. They all run to Dave and say, \u201cDad, it was the best night! Mom kicked a hole in the wall!\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>They pointed at it; put their finger through it. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Oh, it was <em>terrible<\/em>. But I think this is what parents go through; at least, I know a lot of moms go through this. I laid in bed that night and I thought, \u201cI am the <em>worst<\/em> mom; I am the worst <em>model<\/em>. I shouldn\u2019t even talk about <em>Jesus<\/em>; they\u2019re going to turn away from Jesus, because I messed up so much.\u201d\n\nI had already asked their forgiveness: \u201cYou guys, I\u2019m so sorry. This was <em>wrong<\/em>; I lost my patience. I shouldn\u2019t have done that.\u201d I prayed in front of them: \u201cJesus, I\u2019m so\u2026\u201d But what you fear is they will think it\u2019s <em>their<\/em> fault; they will think this is on them.\n\nI remember I kicked myself for about a week. I think, as parents, we just get into this rut, like, \u201cI can\u2019t do it; I\u2019m terrible.\u201d Yet, I think that there\u2019s a spiritual battle going on, where Satan\/the enemy of our soul speaks lies; we have our own lies that we\u2019re listening to. I think it\u2019s important that\u2014when your kids are quick to forgive, they\u2019re quick to see, \u201cOf course, you make mistakes!\u201d\u2014they see their own mistakes too. I think that\u2019s good\u2014that prayer and repentance\u2014we\u2019re not going to be perfect.\n\nBut don\u2019t live\u2014that\u2019s what I would say to parents\u2014\u201cDon\u2019t live in the shame and the condemnation. We are forgiven for that; Christ has forgiven us,\u201d and \u201cOur kids need to see us make mistakes and go back to apologize, and really, confess those.\u201d\n\n<strong>Adam: <\/strong>Amen. You\u2019re talking about being an <em>honest<\/em> parent\u2014and you\u2019re talking about being a strong parent\u2014I mean, you\u2019re kicking walls down. [Laughter] When you say, \u201c\u2026kicking yourself for a week,\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cMan, that must have hurt.\u201d [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes, exactly! Worse!\n\n<strong>Adam: <\/strong>Yes; but we\u2019re talking about being an honest parent and being honest about the mistakes you make.\n\nI should say, as a qualifier, there are versions of parental mistakes that I do believe can disqualify a person from being in a parental relationship of authority in somebody\u2019s life. I\u2019m not advocating that, no matter who your mom or dad is, you need to give them room to be in authority in your life. I think a lot of us can testify to that kind of background.\n\nBut when we think about the opposite\u2014if we let our mistakes be used against us, or we harass ourselves with them, or torment ourselves with them\u2014that causes us to inaction or to nonchalance to what we\u2019re called to; we disqualify ourselves. Then what are we resigning ourselves to?\u2014we\u2019re saying, \u201cMy kids would be better without me,\u201d\u2014we know that\u2019s a lie\u2014\u201cI shouldn\u2019t be their mom\u201d or \u201c\u2026dad,\u201d or \u201cThey need a different mom,\u201d or \u201c\u2026dad,\u201d or \u201cThis is not the kid that I want; I want a different version of this kid.\u201d\n\nLike you\u2019re saying: \u201cThese are lies that are so convincing\u201d; it\u2019s so easy to tend towards shame. Even though we could apply grace to somebody else, it\u2019s <em>really<\/em> hard sometimes to apply it to our own heart, especially in parenting; because we care so much. We love our kids so much that we want it to go so well; so when we make a mistake, it hurts <em>so<\/em> badly. Nobody can help or hurt a kid like a parent can; parents are so powerful, so it makes it seem almost insurmountable when we make a mistake.\n\nBut the beautiful thing is: one, there is no lost cause for the gospel of Jesus Christ, including in any parenting mistakes that we might make. Our kids can be often more forgiving than we give them credit for if we invite them into that honest relationship. They get that level of anger, and they understand that. Maybe they hold it against us, too, in their immaturity; but we have to take those things to the foot of the cross and say, \u201cLord, You have called me to this, so I need You to empower me for it; because You are going to be perfect in it, and I am not.\u201d\n\nNow, like you, you get to point to this\u2014I mean, I\u2019m sure you\u2019ve used this in a sermon illustration; it\u2019s so perfect\u2014the hiding of the sin behind the wallpaper. [Laughter] But now you point back to that, and now it\u2019s a milestone for your family: \u201cRemember the time Mom kicked the wall so hard she put a hole in it?\u201d You get to point back to the faithfulness of God in that moment\u2014that at the moment, you thought that was your low point\u2014and now the Lord points back to that and says, \u201cNo; this was the high point, where I\u2019m teaching you that you\u2019re not perfect; but your kids are going to remember how much you cared about them.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Can you come and live with us? [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Adam: <\/strong>Yes!\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Good!\n\n<strong>Adam: <\/strong>I\u2019m auditioning today to move in. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Is there a Griffin milestone? Are there stories like that from your family, that you point\u2014I mean, your family\u2019s still young\u2014but have you had some of those highlights?\n\n<strong>Adam: <\/strong>Milestones, we talk about in the book, sometimes for families are the greatest thing that\u2019s happened and sometimes it\u2019s the worst. You know, a milestone for your family can be when you lost a loved one or your kids\u2019 first funeral. It\u2019s not always a happy experience.\n\nThere are things\u2014I mentioned the journal Bibles\u2014there are things I\u2019m working on now for future\u2014but there are also things we do together. I think our kids would point back to some of the vacations or trips we\u2019ve taken as a family. As a pastor, I\u2019ve gotten to speak at camps; and my kids will sometimes get to go with me. They\u2019ll point to those moments of getting to sit in a room, where they hear me share the gospel with teenagers; and they get to spend the day with those teenagers, swimming in the pool or going hiking in the mountains. For <em>them<\/em>, that\u2019s the environment that I want to make the most grand impression on them, as a family.\n\nBut I think, to what you\u2019re talking about, Ann, I\u2019m always afraid that the memories they\u2019ll have are of my worst moments.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>Adam: <\/strong>That I could have a <em>hundred<\/em> great nights with my kids; but the one night I lose my temper, they\u2019ll grow up and be like, \u201cI remember my dad yelling.\u201d Every family has some version of dysfunction; so to pretend that there\u2019s a family out there, who doesn\u2019t, is also to believe a lie. Every family has some version\/and every person has some version of dysfunction.\n\nBut I want my kids to remember what\u2019s broken about me only in the sense of that I, too, in my humility, will admit that: \u201cYou\u2019re right; that was a problem that Dad had,\u201d or \u201cThat is a mistake that Dad made,\u201d and to remember those in the context of repentance, as a man, who follows the Lord imperfectly.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I think what you\u2019re saying\u2014it makes me think how important it is\u2014Ann said it\u2014to confess and repent so your children can see it. Again, you don\u2019t make up sin to do that; but I think real discipleship is authentic, honest, living in front of them. Don\u2019t hide\u2014and of course, it has to be age-appropriate as they get older; but being able to say, \u201cI struggled with this today\u201d; or maybe it\u2019s something they see readily, like a hole in the drywall; but maybe it\u2019s something that\u2019s more private.\n\nBut especially, as your boys\u2014I didn\u2019t have daughters\u2014as they\u2019re old enough to process, as a teenage mind, to say: \u201cLet me tell you something I doubted today with God,\u201d and \u201cHere\u2019s how I reconciled it, and got to a place where I\u2019m okay,\u201d <em>or<\/em> \u201cBoy, right now, I\u2019m going through something so hard; I\u2019m struggling believing God is good.\u201d Start a conversation, because you know they are\/they just don\u2019t believe Dad or Mom ever thinks like that\u2014but they do\u2014and God\u2019s there, and God meets them.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>We had a guest on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, awhile back, who said, \u201cAt family dinner, sometimes I will say, \u2018Let\u2019s talk about how we sinned today.\u2019\u201d He would always say, \u201cAnd I\u2019ll go first.\u201d He\u2019s trying to build a rhythm into what\u2019s going on in the family, where confession is normal\/where we\u2019re open and transparent about what we\u2019re dealing with.\n\nBy modeling it: \u201cI\u2019ll go first; here\u2019s what I struggled with\u2026\u201d and \u201cHere\u2019s how I responded..\u201d\/\u201dHere\u2019s what I had to do\u2026\u201d\u2014\u201cAnybody else?\u201d It\u2019s not that everybody has to do a confession there; but he\u2019s watched his kids start to feel comfortable, saying, \u201cWell, I did this\u2026\u201d or \u201cI was aware of that\u2026\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>That\u2019s so much better than we did! I would always be like, \u201cLet\u2019s talk about how Mom sinned today.\u201d [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Adam: <\/strong>\u201cMom put another hole in the house!\u201d [Laughter]\n\nI think what you\u2019re pointing out that he talked about\u2014is one of the things we talk about as we define family discipleship in the book\u2014is that the best version of it is mostly ordinary. It\u2019s not some superlative version of Christianity on display in your house; it\u2019s the normal\u2014you make it <em>normal<\/em> in your rhythm.\n\nIf I were now, with my kids\u2019 ages\u2014or if you guys were with your kids\u2019 ages\u2014the first time you sit down and say, \u201cHey, we\u2019re confessing sin at dinner tonight,\u201d that would be very abnormal, maybe, and very difficult. [Laughter] But if there\u2019s a way to build in a rhythm, where you don\u2019t give up, it\u2019s like anything else\u2014the first couple times you try something, it\u2019s going to be as difficult as it will ever be.\n\nBut the more ordinary it becomes\/the more normal it becomes\u2014to point out the beauty in nature, like you pointed out, Ann, this tree\u2014if that becomes a normal part of hanging out with Mom; or to point out confession at the dinner table; or point out Mom\u2019s sin, if we\u2019re doing that on a regular basis\u2014[Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Which I have to say, you <em>never<\/em> did that!\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>No, I <em>never<\/em> did that. [Laughter]\n\nWell, I\u2019ve shared it here on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> before\u2014and I won\u2019t go into it, but\u2014and it\u2019s in our parenting book\u2014the first time we found porn on the family computer\u2014and it wasn\u2019t me. Ann initially came to me and said, \u201cIs this you?\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cNo, so that means it\u2019s one of these three boys.\u201d\n\nThen, when the one confessed, it was that moment, like, \u201cOkay, here we are.\u201d I remember thinking my whole life, \u201cWhat will I do in that moment?\u201d I thought I would discipline or I\u2019d\u2014I wept; because I was like, \u201cSon, I\u2019ve been down this road; and here\u2019s what the road looks like,\u201d and \u201cHere\u2019s how a dad wins. Let\u2019s journey together.\u201d I think he was 13 at the time.\n\nAgain, looking back, I don\u2019t know what he would say about that moment; but it was a moment where Dad was real: \u201cThis is part of living, and here\u2019s a victory plan. You can\u2019t hide this. If you keep this in the dark, the dark will win. Once it\u2019s out into the light, Jesus can say, \u2018Let\u2019s heal, and let\u2019s work.\u2019\u201d That\u2019s a family discipleship moment.\n\n<strong>Adam: <\/strong>Exactly right. I think what\u2019s beautiful about what you just shared is\u2014not this\/you didn\u2019t prepare a sermon about how you\u2019re going to approach this with your son; you didn\u2019t come up with a version of, \u201cWhat\u2019s the perfect thing that Dad did here?\u201d\u2014it was how you responded to sin. If we think about family discipleship as modeling, as spending time, as leveraging these moments, how we respond to sin is going to be an opportunity we are going to have over, and over, and over again\u2014sin in our own hearts and the sin of our kids.\n\nI think about, in Scripture, where Christ talks about leadership. He says there\u2019s a version of leadership that the Gentiles do, where they use their authority is to lord it over others. We do that in parenting all the time: \u201cI have authority; I\u2019m going to lord it over you.\u201d But He says the difference in Christian leadership is to think of yourself as a servant. We think about: \u201cHow are we going to serve our kids?\u201d \u201cHow does my kid need to be loved in this tender moment\/this opportunity, where he\u2019s <em>busted<\/em>?\u201d Is it going to be: \u201cI\u2019m going to come down like the hammer\u201d?\u2014maybe, in some things, it is\u2014in this case, you\u2019re going gently and empathetically, like Christ\/like an empathetic high priest, saying, \u201cI know what it is like to walk in darkness; and we\u2019re going to walk in the light together, buddy.\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is one of the reasons why I think your book is so helpful for us, as parents, is because you help us think through things that we might not naturally think about. We have to be purposeful and intentional in these areas, and we need some coaching. Your book, <em>Family Discipleship<\/em>, does that.\n\nIn fact, we\u2019re making your book available this week to any <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listener, who would like a copy. If you\u2019re able to help with a donation to support the ongoing work of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, we\u2019ll send you Adam\u2019s book, <em>Family Discipleship: Leading Your Home Through Time, Moments, and Milestones. <\/em>It\u2019s our thank-you gift when you donate, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com or when you call to donate at 1-800-FL-TODAY.\n\nWhat you\u2019re supporting, when you make a donation, is the ongoing equipping and discipling of moms and dads and husbands and wives, in cities and in locations all around the world. People are connecting with <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> in so many ways; and you, as a listener, make that happen every time you make a donation. So thank you for your support; Adam\u2019s book is our thank-you gift if you can make a donation today. Again, the book is called <em>Family Discipleship<\/em>; and you can donate, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can call to donate at 1-800-FL-TODAY.\n\nNow, tomorrow, we want to talk about how we raise kids who can connect with their peers but may not always fit in; in fact, they shouldn\u2019t always fit in. How do we raise kids, who know how to stand for their faith, in the midst of peer pressure and influence? That\u2019s what they\u2019re facing today. I hope you can tune in for that tomorrow.\n\nI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\n<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\nWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\nCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2020 FamilyLife. 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