{"id":306501,"date":"2020-10-27T07:00:05","date_gmt":"2020-10-27T11:00:05","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/facing-unemployment-together\/"},"modified":"2020-10-27T07:00:05","modified_gmt":"2020-10-27T11:00:05","slug":"facing-unemployment-together","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/facing-unemployment-together\/","title":{"rendered":"Facing Unemployment Together"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Dale Kreienkamp talks about the realities of being unemployed. His wife, Deb, shares what she felt as she watched her husband struggle and tells what she did to support him in this uncertain season.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2020-10-27.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:29:44","filesize":"27.22M","filesize_raw":"28546494","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2848,2851,2822,2860],"tags":[5203],"podcast_series":[8403],"cwp_profile":[9666],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-306501","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-cultural-issues","category-finances","category-growing-in-your-faith","category-hardship-and-suffering","tag-job-loss","podcast_series-how-long-oh-lord-how-long","cwp_profile-dale-and-deb-kreienkamp","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/306501\/facing-unemployment-together","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/306501\/facing-unemployment-together","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"o2GJizBFrd\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/facing-unemployment-together\/\">Facing Unemployment Together<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/facing-unemployment-together\/embed\/#?secret=o2GJizBFrd\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Facing Unemployment Together&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"o2GJizBFrd\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2020-10-27.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2020-10-27.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Bob: <\/strong>For most of us, a big part of our identity\/how we see ourselves is tied to the work we do. If the work we do\/the job we have goes away, then who are we? Here\u2019s author Dale Kreienkamp.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale: <\/strong>It\u2019s a struggle for people, because we are wrapped up in our job; our job is us. When you cared about the work you did, you cared about the people you worked with; and someone made a decision to take that away from you\u2014it\u2019s just really hard; there\u2019s a lot of pain that goes with that. It\u2019s kind of the part where you have to remember, even though you don\u2019t feel that way, \u201cHey, I\u2019m not junk. It\u2019s not who I am; it\u2019s whose I am. God created me.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Tuesday, October 27<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I'm Bob Lepine. You can find us online at FamilyLifeToday.com. There\u2019s a lot we have to process and have to recalibrate when we lose a job. Among those things, we have to think about who we are. We\u2019re going to talk about that, and more, with Dale Kreienkamp today. Stay with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. I think the word of the year for me, over the last six, seven, eight months: \u201cdisorienting.\u201d Everything in life has felt unstable. You just look around at the world we\u2019re living in, and things that used to be predictable are not predictable anymore. Things you used to be able to depend on you\u2019re not sure you can depend on those things anymore. You thought you had a pretty good idea of what tomorrow would look like; now you don\u2019t have <em>any<\/em> idea what tomorrow\u2019s going to look like. I think all of us are in a season of upheaval. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019re talking this week about those people who have experienced that upheaval in a more direct sense because, for a lot of our listeners, the job they had ten months ago is not what they\u2019re doing today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes; I was thinking the word for me is \u201cuncertain.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I mean, you\u2019re <em>never<\/em> really certain, even though we think we are, in our lives; but this last six months\u2014right?\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Oh, yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u2014you wake up and you don\u2019t know what the day, or the world, or the future is going to be. It\u2019s scary.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>When you don\u2019t have equilibrium\/when you\u2019re going, \u201cIs the floor going to shake on me?\u201d when you step out of bed, it\u2019s hard to know how to function.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>It feels insecure. That never is a great feeling when you don\u2019t know what\u2019s going to happen next.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>We\u2019re talking this week to an old friend of mine, Dale Kreienkamp, who is with us on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>; welcome.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale: <\/strong>Thanks! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Old friend means high school classmates.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>High school buddies!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>That\u2019s right; we were part of the Class of \u201974 at Kirkwood High School\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Wait, wait, wait. You have a song? Is there a fight song?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, I know\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I mean, we have one from our high school; you have to have one.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale: <\/strong>There was an <em>alma mater<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Okay; do you know what it is?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u201cHail Kirkwood High School, unto thee we sing,\u201d\u2014do you know this?\u2014\u201cEver victorious, homage we bring. Through all the ages, all our sons so bold, fight under Kirkwood High School; fight for the red and white.\u201d There you go.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Ooh!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Wow; impressive! [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale: <\/strong>I\u2019d have joined in, but I can\u2019t sing well. [Laughter] On a mic on radio wouldn\u2019t be pretty.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I saw you mouthing the words, though.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale: <\/strong>Yes, we knew them.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Dale and his wife Deb are with us. Deb, welcome.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Deb: <\/strong>Thank you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Deb didn\u2019t go to Kirkwood High, so she can\u2019t join in. She went to Lutheran High, so I don\u2019t know if you had an <em>alma mater<\/em> that you want to sing for us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Deb: <\/strong>I do not want to sing it, but we did have one. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Dale has, for 40 years, been an HR professional, most of it in the medical field; right?\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014and has recently written a devotional book for people, who have been displaced\u2014a book called <em>How Long, O Lord, How Long?<\/em>\u2014to help people through the transition that comes when the job you had is not your job anymore. You were both a displacer and a displaced person\u2014right?\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale: <\/strong>I was.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014twice in your career\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale: <\/strong>Twice.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014that you got displaced?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You described for us earlier the one experience: where it was six words, and the guy leaves the office, and you\u2019re having to process it all on your own. What about the other displacement that happened for you?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale: <\/strong>It was a little bit different; but it ended up with a conversation with: \u201cThis isn\u2019t going to work; we\u2019re going to eliminate your job.\u201d At that point in time, I\u2019d been around it long enough to know that trying to argue to save it isn\u2019t going to do it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes; can I confess?\u2014that in my situation, I entertained thoughts of sabotage and destruction for the people who had let me go. I mean, there\u2019s part of the flesh that just wants to: \u201c\u2026prove you wrong,\u201d and \u201c\u2026prove you just made a big mistake,\u201d and \u201c\u2026undermine what you\u2019re trying to do, and have you fail.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I want to say that, sometimes, the spouse feels that even more.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Deb: <\/strong>I was thinking that too. It\u2019s more that you\u2019re angry at: \u201cDid they not see how good he is and all he\u2019s done for them?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong><em>Exactly<\/em>, and you want to go <em>tell<\/em> them. That\u2019s what I feel like: \u201cDo you have any idea who you just let go?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Deb: <\/strong>That\u2019s right; that\u2019s right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes; so Deb, what was it like for <em>you<\/em>, even as a spouse?\u2014 because so many of our spouses are going through this. How did you support Dale? What\u2019s that look like?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Deb: <\/strong>My support for him changed a lot through it because of all the emotions that he went through. The hardest one to support was his identity\u2014that when he doesn\u2019t feel like he is anyone, that he\u2019s not worthy, he\u2019s not\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>\u2014good enough.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Deb: <\/strong>\u2014good enough for anything\u2014I think that\u2019s the hardest one. That\u2019s such an emotion inside him, and you can\u2019t do anything; you can\u2019t say: \u201cBut you\u2019re good, honey,\u201d \u201cBut you\u2019re smart, honey.\u201d You can\u2019t change that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>That doesn\u2019t really help?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Deb: <\/strong>No; no.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, your wife\u2019s a partisan\u2014she\u2019s paid to say those kinds of\u2014I mean, and you go, \u201cYou\u2019re a biased objector.\u201d You need the external validation; you want the <em>company<\/em> to say, \u201cYou\u2019re really great\u201d; because your wife says that\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>That\u2019s what I\u2019m saying: \u201cA spouse doesn\u2019t do any good. What <em>should<\/em> we do?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Deb: <\/strong>And you can\u2019t control anything that\u2019s happening to him. He gets a phone call and he\u2019s up because of his job offer; and then, you know, two days later, he gets emails, saying, \u201cWe\u2019re not interesting\u201d; and you just dive. You\u2019re just on this emotional roller coaster with him. You have to\u2014your emotions have to almost take a step back. You have to deal with his emotions, and not your emotions at that time; because his emotions are <em>so<\/em> strong.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I think that\u2019s a great point, because a spouse is having his or her own set of emotions\/insecurities: \u201cWhere\u2019s the money going to come from?\u201d or \u201cHow is this going to work?\u201d; and yet, you\u2019re there to be a partner and a support for your spouse. You\u2019re trying to process your own fears, your own anger, your own grief; but you\u2019re also trying to be a support for your spouse in the midst of all of this.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I\u2019m wondering if there\u2019s a time\u2014if it\u2019s gone on for quite awhile\u2014that the spouse, at one point, says, \u201cHey, what about <em>me<\/em> over here? It\u2019s been all about <em>you<\/em> and your pain.\u201d Is there a point where a spouse thinks that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Deb: <\/strong>I think you <em>think<\/em> that. The second part of that is that nobody ever cares for the spouse themselves. I did have a wonderful sister-in-law and a good friend, who were really good to me during that time; but for the most part, you know, they don\u2019t think anything\u2019s happening to the spouse\u2014you know, \u201cNot a big deal.\u201d But dealing with him\/dealing with your spouse, and then dealing with your family, and keeping things all on an even keel\u2014it\u2019s hard.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>What were you going through, Deb?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Deb: <\/strong>I\u2019ve always been the person who was the cheerleader in the group. He\u2019s the extrovert; I\u2019m the introvert. I love supporting him, but sometimes you just lose yourself. You completely lose who you are; because all your energy goes into that spouse, who needs so much, because he\u2019s going through <em>so<\/em> many emotions. It\u2019s a day by day up and down. I always said, \u201cIt\u2019s a rollercoaster that you\u2019re on. You and your spouse\u2014or you and a friend\u2014are the only ones that are on that rollercoaster. You don\u2019t know when the dips are coming; you don\u2019t know when you\u2019re going up and <em>never<\/em> know when it\u2019s going to end.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>In a sense\u2014again, I\u2019m listening to you, thinking, \u201cIt\u2019s almost like Dale\u2019s the one that lost his job, so he\u2019s wounded; and you\u2019re the caretaker. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Deb: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u201cYou\u2019re trying to help; but the fact is, you\u2019re wounded, too\u201d\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Deb: <\/strong>Yes; yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u2014you know?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale: <\/strong>A couple of things that I learned in this process\u2014I didn\u2019t learn, until later on, how few people asked how Deb was doing. I grew up in my home congregation, so everybody knew me. Because I\u2019m an extrovert, I know a lot of people. People would ask her: \u201cHow\u2019s Dale?\u201d \u201cHow\u2019s the search going?\u201d\u2014never saying\u2014\u201cHow are <em>you<\/em> doing with it?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe do often forget the spouse, which I think is really important. If you\u2019re a friend of somebody who\u2019s unemployed, check in with the spouse; see how they\u2019re doing. The spouse part of it, and everything, is one of the reasons for the subtitle on the book\u2014<em>And for Those Who Love Them<\/em>\u2014because the spouse is going through this same journey, but it\u2019s a different lens. For the spouse, this book was to give them a glimpse of what their spouse might be going through; because when you better understand what somebody\u2019s going through, I think you can better help and support. You don\u2019t get as aggravated at them because you go, \u201cOh, yes; I understand that\u2019s happening.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Deb: <\/strong>It doesn\u2019t mean you <em>don\u2019t<\/em> get aggravated. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Talk about the identity thing you mentioned earlier. You know, the identity for a man, especially\u2014and I\u2019m sure it\u2019s true for a woman as well\u2014is connected to that work\/to that job. Talk about that, because that\u2019s significant.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale: <\/strong>Yes; it\u2019s a struggle for people, because we are wrapped up in our job; our job is us. When you cared about the work you did, you cared about the people you worked with; and someone made a decision to take that away from you\u2014it\u2019s just really hard; there\u2019s a lot of pain that goes with that. It\u2019s kind of the part, where you kind of have to remember, even though you don\u2019t feel that way, \u201cHey, I\u2019m not junk. It\u2019s not who I am; it\u2019s whose I am. God created me.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Your book is called <em>How Long, O Lord, How Long?<\/em> I want to talk about that person, who\u2019s in month four or month five of having been displaced\/being out of work. They\u2019ve made the calls; they\u2019ve called everybody they know to call. Nothing\u2019s popping up; and they\u2019re thinking: \u201cI don\u2019t know who I am,\u201d \u201cI don\u2019t know how I\u2019m going to survive.\u201d What do they do in those moments?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale: <\/strong>Some people just shut down, and there\u2019s a danger in that. There\u2019s a danger in just\u2014you kind of quit and bag it, and you don\u2019t do anything\u2014that\u2019s the danger. I always think it\u2019s important to just continue to continue trying to move forward. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt is important, though, that people stop and reevaluate: \u201cWhat are my gifts and my skills?\u201d\u2014which is different than what we often think about as: \u201cWhat were my job duties?\u201d\u2014it\u2019s: \u201cWhat are my gifts, and what are my skills?\u201d\u2014and maybe\u2014\u201cWhat gives me joy?\u201d and \u201cWhat might I do that\u2019s different than what I did?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMost people: \u201cIf I lost my job doing <em>this<\/em>, I want to kind of find <em>that<\/em> in another company.\u201d Yet, this is a time to take stock in who you are and what you do well. Maybe it\u2019s time to reinvent yourself and go in a different direction. It might mean that maybe the pay\u2019s not the same, but we don\u2019t know where God\u2019s going to take it. We have a God that can take it all sorts of places. So we just sometimes need to rethink and move in a different direction.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen you\u2019re unemployed, you\u2019re looking for a couple things. You\u2019re trying to meet people to try and find a job. You can also use that opportunity to meet people to take a look and talk about different career opportunities in different industries, with different skill sets and all that. That\u2019s what I encourage people to do\u2014is take that inventory and use that time to go meet people.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I had that happen when I was let go from a radio sales job, selling commercials on the local radio station. I had a local car dealer call and say, \u201cYou want to sell cars?\u201d\u2014he\u2019d been one of my clients\u2014and I thought, \u201cDo I want to sell cars? Should I get into the car business?\u201d Then I had another ad agency, that I had been selling to; and they said, \u201cDo you want to come join us and help create ad campaigns for local businesses?\u201d\u00a0 I thought, \u201cIs that what I want to do?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI really had to say: \u201cWhat are my skills?\u201d \u201cWhat are my passions?\u201d \u201cWhat do I believe are the good works that God created for me to do that I should walk in?\u201d\u2014that\u2019s \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tEphesians 2:10\u2014\u201cWhat do I think God\u2019s put me on the earth for? What can I do that is going to be most glorifying to him?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne of the challenges we faced was\u2014I could have taken other jobs that would have kept me where we were living\u2014but if I was going to stay in the field I was in, we were going to have to move out of town. Now, all of a sudden, I have a whole different dynamic. This isn\u2019t just me\u2014it\u2019s my wife; it\u2019s our home\u2014it\u2019s all of that. \u201cHow much are you fueled by career motivations versus location?\u201d This is a complicated issue.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale: <\/strong>Right; yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>How did you guys, in the midst of this, bring God into your relationship\/into the situation? I\u2019m guessing, sometimes, there were times you could be mad at God in a way. Did you do anything, as a couple, or try to encourage each other as a couple? I mean, Dale, you wrote a book. [Laughter] You know, it\u2019s a devotional! So you obviously have brought God into this.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Deb: <\/strong>I think part of that was writing the book, but I did his first edits. I think going through that process was a <em>big<\/em> thing\u2014just even the process of getting it published and everything\/working together\u2014that we felt, together, that we were obedient to God\u2019s calling.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale: <\/strong>Yes; I would say, Ann, we were intentional in continuing the disciplines that we had prior. Even though I\u2019m hurt and I\u2019m wounded, I never stopped being there Sunday morning for church. That was a regular discipline, and that\u2019s where I want to be: that\u2019s where my support is; I need to be there. Our daily prayer life together needed to say there. We stayed with those things; that was important to do. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt was, also\u2014you know, it was an example to other people\u2014I was very conscious that other people are watching.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Have there been moments\u2014you know, I\u2019m looking at some of your chapter titles, which are about \u201cFaith Is a Muscle,\u201d \u201cAllowing for God\u2019s Amazing Grace,\u201d \u201cWhere\u2019s My Protector?\u201d\u2014have there been moments similar to the title of your book\u2014\u201cLord, how long?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale: <\/strong>Regularly.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale: <\/strong>Regular moments.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes, what\u2019s that look like?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale: <\/strong>Frustrating: \u201cLord, why don\u2019t You turn Your face toward me? Why am I going through this? What am I supposed to learn?\u201d So yes; there are tears; there are moments you can\u2019t figure it out, and you want to figure it out. I mean, that\u2019s our human nature\u2014is, \u201cI have to figure it out.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cIt\u2019s not mine to figure out,\u201d is the hard part. It is, though, an amazing thing how He uses that time to mold us and shape us. I\u2019d like to say I\u2019m a better person today because of the experiences that I\u2019ve gone through.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Is that true, Deb?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Deb: <\/strong>I think so; I do. He had a good friend, who was having a really hard medical issue. Because he [Dale] wasn\u2019t in a full-time job, and he had some time, he was able to minister to him and to his wife. You know, God puts things out there for us to care for other people.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale: <\/strong>I think the hardest part was just wanting to do something. It\u2019s like you\u2019re the relief pitcher, and you\u2019re waiting to get into a game: \u201cPut me back in, Coach; I\u2019m ready,\u201d\u2014and just wishing you could get in the game and frustrated that you can\u2019t\u2014you don\u2019t know when it\u2019s going to happen.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You know, we talked about how much of our identity is wrapped up in what we\u2019re good at and what we do. Family is part of how we represent identity; job and career is another part. But I\u2019ve just had to recognize that this has to come back to, first and foremost: \u201cYou are a child of God: you are beloved by God; you are a part of His family.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen that becomes where you find your sense of value and worth\u2014not in your career, not even in your family and who they are\u2014that\u2019s <em>never<\/em> going to change. That is what\u2019s <em>most<\/em> important; that\u2019s the <em>eternal<\/em>. Even family is not eternal; there\u2019s no marriage in heaven; right? We have to come back and say, \u201cWhat really matters is this: Who I am, as a child of God, that\u2019s where my value and worth is; and that\u2019s what I\u2019m going to rest in.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>It\u2019s interesting\u2014at the beginning of a Detroit Lions season one year, for a Bible study, I lead a Bible study with all the wives\u2014there were a lot of wives in this room, maybe 16 wives. These women are educated, sharp, gifted, beautiful. They kind of give up their career, their life, their home to follow their husband for his dreams. This one year, I decided to start\u2014and I said, \u201cI want you to introduce yourselves, but I don\u2019t want you to say who you\u2019re married to. I don\u2019t want you to talk about your education or what you\u2019ve done,\u201d\u2014because a lot of them are incredible athletes as well\u2014\u201cI want you to talk about who you are.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere was absolute <em>silence<\/em> in the room, because it\u2019s identity. They didn\u2019t even know what to say, because it\u2019s so contrary to the world: it\u2019s all about who we are: what we\u2019ve done, who we know, how much money we make. One girl started; and she said, \u201cI\u2019m friendly and kind.\u201d They started going through some character traits. That was really interesting for them; they had never done an exercise like that, to say, \u201cWho am I apart from what I do?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen, at the end of that year\u2014and we do this almost every year\u2014we have a woman sit in the middle. We all speak life into her of her gifts, her strengths, her abilities, her character qualities; and then we all gather around her and pray over her that God would use her for His kingdom in all the strengths, gifts, talents that she has, wherever she goes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m thinking\u2014we just did this with our friend, who is out of work\u2014he was at our house just last week. He sat on a chair\u2014we laid our hands on him; we spoke life into him of, \u201cThis is who you are\u2026These are the gifts that you have\u2026This is the impact we see you making,\u201d\u2014and then we prayed for his job, for his future, for his family. I\u2019m thinking, \u201cWhat a great application for family members, if someone has lost a job, to put them in a chair, to pray over them, to remind them who they are, not just what they do.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes; my last thought would be\u2014and Dale and Deb, I\u2019m guessing you\u2019re experiencing this\u2014is you can\u2019t go through this alone.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes, yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>You want to make sure, like you said, \u201cI\u2019m going to church; I\u2019m in community\u201d; you have to have others around you. I know you can easily lose perspective. When somebody speaks into you and says, \u201cYou are a good man,\u201d\/\u201dYou are a good woman,\u201d \u201cYou do have great gifts,\u201d \u201cGod\u2019s in control,\u201d \u201cGod sees you,\u201d \u201cGod\u2019s with you,\u201d \u201cGod has a plan,\u201d\u2014hearing that from somebody else sometimes is what we need, because we lose perspective.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale: <\/strong>Yes; and your friend is blessed to have you guys; because you\u2019re <em>engaged<\/em> friends who care, want to understand, and want to help. I think there are often people, who want to help, but don\u2019t know what to do; so they don\u2019t do anything; they pull back. The person, who\u2019s unemployed can sense that; so it\u2019s like you\u2019re not going to really tell them what\u2019s on your mind; yet deep down, there\u2019s a loneliness to unemployment of nobody understanding what you\u2019re going through.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s one of the interesting things about the book. I\u2019ve had people say, \u201cYou get it. You understand. I know you do, because I\u2019ve read your book.\u201d There\u2019s a desire on our part for people to understand what we\u2019re going through, but so few people want to really listen and understand. They just want it to be okay. So kudos to <em>you<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s one of the things that I would hope we can be\u2014is better friends. We need more people who care and want to get in the middle of it and help.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Talk about having friends\u2014I\u2019m thinking about your book\u2014and I\u2019m thinking about the number of listeners we have, who ought to get multiple copies and be a good friend and say, \u201cI bought a book for you.\u201d You were talking earlier about pastors having a drawer full of these. I\u2019m thinking that\u2019s just smart for a pastor to be able to say, \u201cI want to recommend a book to you; I want to give you a copy of a book.\u201d In fact, if they\u2019re unemployed, <em>don\u2019t<\/em> recommend the book to them; give them a copy of the book!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Buy it for them. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale: <\/strong>Don\u2019t say, \u201cWe have one in the lending library\u201d; they\u2019re not going to go. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Dale, thank you for this time. Thanks for helping us <em>process<\/em> all of this. This has helped <em>so<\/em> many listeners, and we\u2019re grateful for you coming and doing this.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale: <\/strong>Thanks.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Deb, thank you as well.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Deb: <\/strong>Thank you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>We want to encourage our listeners to get a copy of your book, <em>How Long, O Lord, How Long?<\/em> and pass it on to somebody. We\u2019re making the book available this week for a donation of any amount. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com; help support the work we\u2019re doing here at FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>; and you can request your copy of Dale\u2019s devotional to give to a friend, who may be in this very situation. Again, the book is called <em>How Long, O Lord?<\/em> It\u2019s our gift to you when you make a donation to support the ongoing work of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe could not do what we do, day in and day out, if it weren\u2019t for listeners like you, who say, \u201cThis really matters. This is important, and I want more people to have access to this kind of content.\u201d Thanks to those of you, who have supported us in the past. Again, if you make a donation today, you can request your copy of Dale\u2019s book, <em>How Long, O Lord, How Long?<\/em> Donate at FamilyLifeToday.com; it\u2019s easy to do online, or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to make a donation. Thanks for investing in marriages and families all around the world. We appreciate your support and your partnership.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI also want to encourage you\u2014if you are a regular <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listener\u2014and from time to time you miss a program, or you\u2019d like to go back and listen to something you may have missed, we have a brand-new FamilyLife mobile app. You can download it for free when you go to the app store on your device. Just type in \u201cFamilyLife\u201d as one word, and the app will show up. Again, it\u2019s free; and you can download it. That way, when you miss a <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> program, it\u2019s easily accessible on your device.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow, we want to talk about issues of anxiety and depression, especially among teenagers. How can we, as parents, know if what our kids are going through is normal adolescent behavior or if it\u2019s something more serious? Pastor and biblical counselor, David Murray, is going to join us to talk about that tomorrow. I hope you can be with us for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2020 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:29:44"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["27.22M"],"filesize_raw":["28546494"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-306501.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-306501.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom 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Kreienkamp talks about the realities of being unemployed. His wife, Deb, shares what she felt as she watched her husband struggle and tells what she did to support him in this uncertain season.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2020-10-27.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>For most of us, a big part of our identity\/how we see ourselves is tied to the work we do. If the work we do\/the job we have goes away, then who are we? Here\u2019s author Dale Kreienkamp.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale: <\/strong>It\u2019s a struggle for people, because we are wrapped up in our job; our job is us. When you cared about the work you did, you cared about the people you worked with; and someone made a decision to take that away from you\u2014it\u2019s just really hard; there\u2019s a lot of pain that goes with that. It\u2019s kind of the part where you have to remember, even though you don\u2019t feel that way, \u201cHey, I\u2019m not junk. It\u2019s not who I am; it\u2019s whose I am. God created me.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Tuesday, October 27<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I'm Bob Lepine. You can find us online at FamilyLifeToday.com. There\u2019s a lot we have to process and have to recalibrate when we lose a job. Among those things, we have to think about who we are. We\u2019re going to talk about that, and more, with Dale Kreienkamp today. Stay with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. I think the word of the year for me, over the last six, seven, eight months: \u201cdisorienting.\u201d Everything in life has felt unstable. You just look around at the world we\u2019re living in, and things that used to be predictable are not predictable anymore. Things you used to be able to depend on you\u2019re not sure you can depend on those things anymore. You thought you had a pretty good idea of what tomorrow would look like; now you don\u2019t have <em>any<\/em> idea what tomorrow\u2019s going to look like. I think all of us are in a season of upheaval. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019re talking this week about those people who have experienced that upheaval in a more direct sense because, for a lot of our listeners, the job they had ten months ago is not what they\u2019re doing today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes; I was thinking the word for me is \u201cuncertain.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I mean, you\u2019re <em>never<\/em> really certain, even though we think we are, in our lives; but this last six months\u2014right?\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Oh, yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u2014you wake up and you don\u2019t know what the day, or the world, or the future is going to be. It\u2019s scary.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>When you don\u2019t have equilibrium\/when you\u2019re going, \u201cIs the floor going to shake on me?\u201d when you step out of bed, it\u2019s hard to know how to function.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>It feels insecure. That never is a great feeling when you don\u2019t know what\u2019s going to happen next.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>We\u2019re talking this week to an old friend of mine, Dale Kreienkamp, who is with us on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>; welcome.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale: <\/strong>Thanks! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Old friend means high school classmates.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>High school buddies!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>That\u2019s right; we were part of the Class of \u201974 at Kirkwood High School\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Wait, wait, wait. You have a song? Is there a fight song?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, I know\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I mean, we have one from our high school; you have to have one.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale: <\/strong>There was an <em>alma mater<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Okay; do you know what it is?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u201cHail Kirkwood High School, unto thee we sing,\u201d\u2014do you know this?\u2014\u201cEver victorious, homage we bring. Through all the ages, all our sons so bold, fight under Kirkwood High School; fight for the red and white.\u201d There you go.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Ooh!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Wow; impressive! [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale: <\/strong>I\u2019d have joined in, but I can\u2019t sing well. [Laughter] On a mic on radio wouldn\u2019t be pretty.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I saw you mouthing the words, though.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale: <\/strong>Yes, we knew them.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Dale and his wife Deb are with us. Deb, welcome.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Deb: <\/strong>Thank you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Deb didn\u2019t go to Kirkwood High, so she can\u2019t join in. She went to Lutheran High, so I don\u2019t know if you had an <em>alma mater<\/em> that you want to sing for us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Deb: <\/strong>I do not want to sing it, but we did have one. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Dale has, for 40 years, been an HR professional, most of it in the medical field; right?\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014and has recently written a devotional book for people, who have been displaced\u2014a book called <em>How Long, O Lord, How Long?<\/em>\u2014to help people through the transition that comes when the job you had is not your job anymore. You were both a displacer and a displaced person\u2014right?\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale: <\/strong>I was.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014twice in your career\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale: <\/strong>Twice.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014that you got displaced?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You described for us earlier the one experience: where it was six words, and the guy leaves the office, and you\u2019re having to process it all on your own. What about the other displacement that happened for you?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale: <\/strong>It was a little bit different; but it ended up with a conversation with: \u201cThis isn\u2019t going to work; we\u2019re going to eliminate your job.\u201d At that point in time, I\u2019d been around it long enough to know that trying to argue to save it isn\u2019t going to do it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes; can I confess?\u2014that in my situation, I entertained thoughts of sabotage and destruction for the people who had let me go. I mean, there\u2019s part of the flesh that just wants to: \u201c\u2026prove you wrong,\u201d and \u201c\u2026prove you just made a big mistake,\u201d and \u201c\u2026undermine what you\u2019re trying to do, and have you fail.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I want to say that, sometimes, the spouse feels that even more.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Deb: <\/strong>I was thinking that too. It\u2019s more that you\u2019re angry at: \u201cDid they not see how good he is and all he\u2019s done for them?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong><em>Exactly<\/em>, and you want to go <em>tell<\/em> them. That\u2019s what I feel like: \u201cDo you have any idea who you just let go?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Deb: <\/strong>That\u2019s right; that\u2019s right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes; so Deb, what was it like for <em>you<\/em>, even as a spouse?\u2014 because so many of our spouses are going through this. How did you support Dale? What\u2019s that look like?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Deb: <\/strong>My support for him changed a lot through it because of all the emotions that he went through. The hardest one to support was his identity\u2014that when he doesn\u2019t feel like he is anyone, that he\u2019s not worthy, he\u2019s not\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>\u2014good enough.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Deb: <\/strong>\u2014good enough for anything\u2014I think that\u2019s the hardest one. That\u2019s such an emotion inside him, and you can\u2019t do anything; you can\u2019t say: \u201cBut you\u2019re good, honey,\u201d \u201cBut you\u2019re smart, honey.\u201d You can\u2019t change that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>That doesn\u2019t really help?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Deb: <\/strong>No; no.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, your wife\u2019s a partisan\u2014she\u2019s paid to say those kinds of\u2014I mean, and you go, \u201cYou\u2019re a biased objector.\u201d You need the external validation; you want the <em>company<\/em> to say, \u201cYou\u2019re really great\u201d; because your wife says that\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>That\u2019s what I\u2019m saying: \u201cA spouse doesn\u2019t do any good. What <em>should<\/em> we do?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Deb: <\/strong>And you can\u2019t control anything that\u2019s happening to him. He gets a phone call and he\u2019s up because of his job offer; and then, you know, two days later, he gets emails, saying, \u201cWe\u2019re not interesting\u201d; and you just dive. You\u2019re just on this emotional roller coaster with him. You have to\u2014your emotions have to almost take a step back. You have to deal with his emotions, and not your emotions at that time; because his emotions are <em>so<\/em> strong.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I think that\u2019s a great point, because a spouse is having his or her own set of emotions\/insecurities: \u201cWhere\u2019s the money going to come from?\u201d or \u201cHow is this going to work?\u201d; and yet, you\u2019re there to be a partner and a support for your spouse. You\u2019re trying to process your own fears, your own anger, your own grief; but you\u2019re also trying to be a support for your spouse in the midst of all of this.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I\u2019m wondering if there\u2019s a time\u2014if it\u2019s gone on for quite awhile\u2014that the spouse, at one point, says, \u201cHey, what about <em>me<\/em> over here? It\u2019s been all about <em>you<\/em> and your pain.\u201d Is there a point where a spouse thinks that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Deb: <\/strong>I think you <em>think<\/em> that. The second part of that is that nobody ever cares for the spouse themselves. I did have a wonderful sister-in-law and a good friend, who were really good to me during that time; but for the most part, you know, they don\u2019t think anything\u2019s happening to the spouse\u2014you know, \u201cNot a big deal.\u201d But dealing with him\/dealing with your spouse, and then dealing with your family, and keeping things all on an even keel\u2014it\u2019s hard.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>What were you going through, Deb?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Deb: <\/strong>I\u2019ve always been the person who was the cheerleader in the group. He\u2019s the extrovert; I\u2019m the introvert. I love supporting him, but sometimes you just lose yourself. You completely lose who you are; because all your energy goes into that spouse, who needs so much, because he\u2019s going through <em>so<\/em> many emotions. It\u2019s a day by day up and down. I always said, \u201cIt\u2019s a rollercoaster that you\u2019re on. You and your spouse\u2014or you and a friend\u2014are the only ones that are on that rollercoaster. You don\u2019t know when the dips are coming; you don\u2019t know when you\u2019re going up and <em>never<\/em> know when it\u2019s going to end.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>In a sense\u2014again, I\u2019m listening to you, thinking, \u201cIt\u2019s almost like Dale\u2019s the one that lost his job, so he\u2019s wounded; and you\u2019re the caretaker. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Deb: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u201cYou\u2019re trying to help; but the fact is, you\u2019re wounded, too\u201d\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Deb: <\/strong>Yes; yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u2014you know?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale: <\/strong>A couple of things that I learned in this process\u2014I didn\u2019t learn, until later on, how few people asked how Deb was doing. I grew up in my home congregation, so everybody knew me. Because I\u2019m an extrovert, I know a lot of people. People would ask her: \u201cHow\u2019s Dale?\u201d \u201cHow\u2019s the search going?\u201d\u2014never saying\u2014\u201cHow are <em>you<\/em> doing with it?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe do often forget the spouse, which I think is really important. If you\u2019re a friend of somebody who\u2019s unemployed, check in with the spouse; see how they\u2019re doing. The spouse part of it, and everything, is one of the reasons for the subtitle on the book\u2014<em>And for Those Who Love Them<\/em>\u2014because the spouse is going through this same journey, but it\u2019s a different lens. For the spouse, this book was to give them a glimpse of what their spouse might be going through; because when you better understand what somebody\u2019s going through, I think you can better help and support. You don\u2019t get as aggravated at them because you go, \u201cOh, yes; I understand that\u2019s happening.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Deb: <\/strong>It doesn\u2019t mean you <em>don\u2019t<\/em> get aggravated. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Talk about the identity thing you mentioned earlier. You know, the identity for a man, especially\u2014and I\u2019m sure it\u2019s true for a woman as well\u2014is connected to that work\/to that job. Talk about that, because that\u2019s significant.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale: <\/strong>Yes; it\u2019s a struggle for people, because we are wrapped up in our job; our job is us. When you cared about the work you did, you cared about the people you worked with; and someone made a decision to take that away from you\u2014it\u2019s just really hard; there\u2019s a lot of pain that goes with that. It\u2019s kind of the part, where you kind of have to remember, even though you don\u2019t feel that way, \u201cHey, I\u2019m not junk. It\u2019s not who I am; it\u2019s whose I am. God created me.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Your book is called <em>How Long, O Lord, How Long?<\/em> I want to talk about that person, who\u2019s in month four or month five of having been displaced\/being out of work. They\u2019ve made the calls; they\u2019ve called everybody they know to call. Nothing\u2019s popping up; and they\u2019re thinking: \u201cI don\u2019t know who I am,\u201d \u201cI don\u2019t know how I\u2019m going to survive.\u201d What do they do in those moments?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale: <\/strong>Some people just shut down, and there\u2019s a danger in that. There\u2019s a danger in just\u2014you kind of quit and bag it, and you don\u2019t do anything\u2014that\u2019s the danger. I always think it\u2019s important to just continue to continue trying to move forward. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt is important, though, that people stop and reevaluate: \u201cWhat are my gifts and my skills?\u201d\u2014which is different than what we often think about as: \u201cWhat were my job duties?\u201d\u2014it\u2019s: \u201cWhat are my gifts, and what are my skills?\u201d\u2014and maybe\u2014\u201cWhat gives me joy?\u201d and \u201cWhat might I do that\u2019s different than what I did?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMost people: \u201cIf I lost my job doing <em>this<\/em>, I want to kind of find <em>that<\/em> in another company.\u201d Yet, this is a time to take stock in who you are and what you do well. Maybe it\u2019s time to reinvent yourself and go in a different direction. It might mean that maybe the pay\u2019s not the same, but we don\u2019t know where God\u2019s going to take it. We have a God that can take it all sorts of places. So we just sometimes need to rethink and move in a different direction.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen you\u2019re unemployed, you\u2019re looking for a couple things. You\u2019re trying to meet people to try and find a job. You can also use that opportunity to meet people to take a look and talk about different career opportunities in different industries, with different skill sets and all that. That\u2019s what I encourage people to do\u2014is take that inventory and use that time to go meet people.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I had that happen when I was let go from a radio sales job, selling commercials on the local radio station. I had a local car dealer call and say, \u201cYou want to sell cars?\u201d\u2014he\u2019d been one of my clients\u2014and I thought, \u201cDo I want to sell cars? Should I get into the car business?\u201d Then I had another ad agency, that I had been selling to; and they said, \u201cDo you want to come join us and help create ad campaigns for local businesses?\u201d\u00a0 I thought, \u201cIs that what I want to do?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI really had to say: \u201cWhat are my skills?\u201d \u201cWhat are my passions?\u201d \u201cWhat do I believe are the good works that God created for me to do that I should walk in?\u201d\u2014that\u2019s \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tEphesians 2:10\u2014\u201cWhat do I think God\u2019s put me on the earth for? What can I do that is going to be most glorifying to him?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne of the challenges we faced was\u2014I could have taken other jobs that would have kept me where we were living\u2014but if I was going to stay in the field I was in, we were going to have to move out of town. Now, all of a sudden, I have a whole different dynamic. This isn\u2019t just me\u2014it\u2019s my wife; it\u2019s our home\u2014it\u2019s all of that. \u201cHow much are you fueled by career motivations versus location?\u201d This is a complicated issue.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale: <\/strong>Right; yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>How did you guys, in the midst of this, bring God into your relationship\/into the situation? I\u2019m guessing, sometimes, there were times you could be mad at God in a way. Did you do anything, as a couple, or try to encourage each other as a couple? I mean, Dale, you wrote a book. [Laughter] You know, it\u2019s a devotional! So you obviously have brought God into this.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Deb: <\/strong>I think part of that was writing the book, but I did his first edits. I think going through that process was a <em>big<\/em> thing\u2014just even the process of getting it published and everything\/working together\u2014that we felt, together, that we were obedient to God\u2019s calling.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale: <\/strong>Yes; I would say, Ann, we were intentional in continuing the disciplines that we had prior. Even though I\u2019m hurt and I\u2019m wounded, I never stopped being there Sunday morning for church. That was a regular discipline, and that\u2019s where I want to be: that\u2019s where my support is; I need to be there. Our daily prayer life together needed to say there. We stayed with those things; that was important to do. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt was, also\u2014you know, it was an example to other people\u2014I was very conscious that other people are watching.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Have there been moments\u2014you know, I\u2019m looking at some of your chapter titles, which are about \u201cFaith Is a Muscle,\u201d \u201cAllowing for God\u2019s Amazing Grace,\u201d \u201cWhere\u2019s My Protector?\u201d\u2014have there been moments similar to the title of your book\u2014\u201cLord, how long?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale: <\/strong>Regularly.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale: <\/strong>Regular moments.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes, what\u2019s that look like?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale: <\/strong>Frustrating: \u201cLord, why don\u2019t You turn Your face toward me? Why am I going through this? What am I supposed to learn?\u201d So yes; there are tears; there are moments you can\u2019t figure it out, and you want to figure it out. I mean, that\u2019s our human nature\u2014is, \u201cI have to figure it out.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cIt\u2019s not mine to figure out,\u201d is the hard part. It is, though, an amazing thing how He uses that time to mold us and shape us. I\u2019d like to say I\u2019m a better person today because of the experiences that I\u2019ve gone through.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Is that true, Deb?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Deb: <\/strong>I think so; I do. He had a good friend, who was having a really hard medical issue. Because he [Dale] wasn\u2019t in a full-time job, and he had some time, he was able to minister to him and to his wife. You know, God puts things out there for us to care for other people.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale: <\/strong>I think the hardest part was just wanting to do something. It\u2019s like you\u2019re the relief pitcher, and you\u2019re waiting to get into a game: \u201cPut me back in, Coach; I\u2019m ready,\u201d\u2014and just wishing you could get in the game and frustrated that you can\u2019t\u2014you don\u2019t know when it\u2019s going to happen.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You know, we talked about how much of our identity is wrapped up in what we\u2019re good at and what we do. Family is part of how we represent identity; job and career is another part. But I\u2019ve just had to recognize that this has to come back to, first and foremost: \u201cYou are a child of God: you are beloved by God; you are a part of His family.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen that becomes where you find your sense of value and worth\u2014not in your career, not even in your family and who they are\u2014that\u2019s <em>never<\/em> going to change. That is what\u2019s <em>most<\/em> important; that\u2019s the <em>eternal<\/em>. Even family is not eternal; there\u2019s no marriage in heaven; right? We have to come back and say, \u201cWhat really matters is this: Who I am, as a child of God, that\u2019s where my value and worth is; and that\u2019s what I\u2019m going to rest in.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>It\u2019s interesting\u2014at the beginning of a Detroit Lions season one year, for a Bible study, I lead a Bible study with all the wives\u2014there were a lot of wives in this room, maybe 16 wives. These women are educated, sharp, gifted, beautiful. They kind of give up their career, their life, their home to follow their husband for his dreams. This one year, I decided to start\u2014and I said, \u201cI want you to introduce yourselves, but I don\u2019t want you to say who you\u2019re married to. I don\u2019t want you to talk about your education or what you\u2019ve done,\u201d\u2014because a lot of them are incredible athletes as well\u2014\u201cI want you to talk about who you are.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere was absolute <em>silence<\/em> in the room, because it\u2019s identity. They didn\u2019t even know what to say, because it\u2019s so contrary to the world: it\u2019s all about who we are: what we\u2019ve done, who we know, how much money we make. One girl started; and she said, \u201cI\u2019m friendly and kind.\u201d They started going through some character traits. That was really interesting for them; they had never done an exercise like that, to say, \u201cWho am I apart from what I do?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen, at the end of that year\u2014and we do this almost every year\u2014we have a woman sit in the middle. We all speak life into her of her gifts, her strengths, her abilities, her character qualities; and then we all gather around her and pray over her that God would use her for His kingdom in all the strengths, gifts, talents that she has, wherever she goes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m thinking\u2014we just did this with our friend, who is out of work\u2014he was at our house just last week. He sat on a chair\u2014we laid our hands on him; we spoke life into him of, \u201cThis is who you are\u2026These are the gifts that you have\u2026This is the impact we see you making,\u201d\u2014and then we prayed for his job, for his future, for his family. I\u2019m thinking, \u201cWhat a great application for family members, if someone has lost a job, to put them in a chair, to pray over them, to remind them who they are, not just what they do.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes; my last thought would be\u2014and Dale and Deb, I\u2019m guessing you\u2019re experiencing this\u2014is you can\u2019t go through this alone.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes, yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>You want to make sure, like you said, \u201cI\u2019m going to church; I\u2019m in community\u201d; you have to have others around you. I know you can easily lose perspective. When somebody speaks into you and says, \u201cYou are a good man,\u201d\/\u201dYou are a good woman,\u201d \u201cYou do have great gifts,\u201d \u201cGod\u2019s in control,\u201d \u201cGod sees you,\u201d \u201cGod\u2019s with you,\u201d \u201cGod has a plan,\u201d\u2014hearing that from somebody else sometimes is what we need, because we lose perspective.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale: <\/strong>Yes; and your friend is blessed to have you guys; because you\u2019re <em>engaged<\/em> friends who care, want to understand, and want to help. I think there are often people, who want to help, but don\u2019t know what to do; so they don\u2019t do anything; they pull back. The person, who\u2019s unemployed can sense that; so it\u2019s like you\u2019re not going to really tell them what\u2019s on your mind; yet deep down, there\u2019s a loneliness to unemployment of nobody understanding what you\u2019re going through.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s one of the interesting things about the book. I\u2019ve had people say, \u201cYou get it. You understand. I know you do, because I\u2019ve read your book.\u201d There\u2019s a desire on our part for people to understand what we\u2019re going through, but so few people want to really listen and understand. They just want it to be okay. So kudos to <em>you<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s one of the things that I would hope we can be\u2014is better friends. We need more people who care and want to get in the middle of it and help.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Talk about having friends\u2014I\u2019m thinking about your book\u2014and I\u2019m thinking about the number of listeners we have, who ought to get multiple copies and be a good friend and say, \u201cI bought a book for you.\u201d You were talking earlier about pastors having a drawer full of these. I\u2019m thinking that\u2019s just smart for a pastor to be able to say, \u201cI want to recommend a book to you; I want to give you a copy of a book.\u201d In fact, if they\u2019re unemployed, <em>don\u2019t<\/em> recommend the book to them; give them a copy of the book!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Buy it for them. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale: <\/strong>Don\u2019t say, \u201cWe have one in the lending library\u201d; they\u2019re not going to go. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Dale, thank you for this time. Thanks for helping us <em>process<\/em> all of this. This has helped <em>so<\/em> many listeners, and we\u2019re grateful for you coming and doing this.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale: <\/strong>Thanks.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Deb, thank you as well.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Deb: <\/strong>Thank you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>We want to encourage our listeners to get a copy of your book, <em>How Long, O Lord, How Long?<\/em> and pass it on to somebody. We\u2019re making the book available this week for a donation of any amount. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com; help support the work we\u2019re doing here at FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>; and you can request your copy of Dale\u2019s devotional to give to a friend, who may be in this very situation. Again, the book is called <em>How Long, O Lord?<\/em> It\u2019s our gift to you when you make a donation to support the ongoing work of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe could not do what we do, day in and day out, if it weren\u2019t for listeners like you, who say, \u201cThis really matters. This is important, and I want more people to have access to this kind of content.\u201d Thanks to those of you, who have supported us in the past. Again, if you make a donation today, you can request your copy of Dale\u2019s book, <em>How Long, O Lord, How Long?<\/em> Donate at FamilyLifeToday.com; it\u2019s easy to do online, or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to make a donation. Thanks for investing in marriages and families all around the world. We appreciate your support and your partnership.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI also want to encourage you\u2014if you are a regular <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listener\u2014and from time to time you miss a program, or you\u2019d like to go back and listen to something you may have missed, we have a brand-new FamilyLife mobile app. You can download it for free when you go to the app store on your device. Just type in \u201cFamilyLife\u201d as one word, and the app will show up. Again, it\u2019s free; and you can download it. That way, when you miss a <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> program, it\u2019s easily accessible on your device.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow, we want to talk about issues of anxiety and depression, especially among teenagers. How can we, as parents, know if what our kids are going through is normal adolescent behavior or if it\u2019s something more serious? Pastor and biblical counselor, David Murray, is going to join us to talk about that tomorrow. I hope you can be with us for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2020 FamilyLife. 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