{"id":306498,"date":"2020-10-26T07:00:05","date_gmt":"2020-10-26T11:00:05","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/the-shock-of-being-let-go\/"},"modified":"2020-10-26T07:00:05","modified_gmt":"2020-10-26T11:00:05","slug":"the-shock-of-being-let-go","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/the-shock-of-being-let-go\/","title":{"rendered":"The Shock of Being Let Go"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Dale Kreienkamp talks about the variety of emotions a person feels after being laid off. He reminds those who are unemployed that it&#8217;s going to be okay, but it will be hard, with emotional highs and lows. Ultimately, you&#8217;ll see God&#8217;s hand of provision in your life.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2020-10-26.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:27:36","filesize":"25.28M","filesize_raw":"26502890","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2848,2851,2822,2860],"tags":[5203],"podcast_series":[8403],"cwp_profile":[9666],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-306498","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-cultural-issues","category-finances","category-growing-in-your-faith","category-hardship-and-suffering","tag-job-loss","podcast_series-how-long-oh-lord-how-long","cwp_profile-dale-and-deb-kreienkamp","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/306498\/the-shock-of-being-let-go","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/306498\/the-shock-of-being-let-go","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"UpcisRCF8X\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/the-shock-of-being-let-go\/\">The Shock of Being Let Go<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/the-shock-of-being-let-go\/embed\/#?secret=UpcisRCF8X\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;The Shock of Being Let Go&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"UpcisRCF8X\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2020-10-26.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2020-10-26.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Dale Kreienkamp spent many years as the head of Human Resources for a large company. That company was facing a layoff; 25 people were going to be let go. It was Dale\u2019s job to have to break the news. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale:<\/strong> I was with my Chief Operating Officer, who I reported to at the time; he was with us about a year. He stood behind his chair and said, \u201cThank you.\u201d And then he said, \u201cOh, by the way, your name is on the list.\u201d And in those six little words, I became the 26<sup>th<\/sup> person. For me, I\u2019d been there for 25 years; so six words ended 25 years. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Monday, October 26<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I'm Bob Lepine. You can find us online at FamilyLifeToday.com. A lot of people in the last several months have experienced what Dale experienced\u2014being laid off from a long-time job. How do you deal with that? We\u2019ll talk with Dale about that today. Stay with us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. You\u2019ve never had this happen; I\u2019ve had this happen to me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I don\u2019t know what you\u2019re talking about. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> It was a Monday morning; I came to work, working at a radio station. The boss said, \u201cCan you come into the office for a moment?\u201d I said, \u201cSure.\u201d I came into his office and sat down. He took a deep breath and sighed and said, \u201cI\u2019ve decided it\u2019s in your best interest and in the best interest of the station for us to let you go,\u201d\u2014completely out of the blue. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You had <em>no<\/em> idea. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> No clue. I\u2019d been salesman of the month two months before; it was just a complete stunner\/shocker. Called my wife and said, \u201cI\u2019m going to be home early today, and be there tomorrow, and be there the next day.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Did you have kids at the time?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Oh, yes; in fact, we had one. We found out, a month later, Mary Ann was pregnant with number two. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> So that\u2019s even more scary. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> It was disorienting; right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen, a couple years later, another situation: I had an employer call and say, \u201cWe don\u2019t think this is working out.\u201d What I learned is that he had hired me for a job; the guy he really wanted for the job was not available. Nine months later, the guy he really wanted for the job became available. The fact that it wasn\u2019t working out was really the other thing <em>was <\/em>working out. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019ve been through\u2014you\u2019ve never\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; the first thought I had was that I had a job in high school\u2014Ann doesn\u2019t even know this\u2014I was a dishwasher at Marathon Oil Company in Finley, Ohio. I got fired because I wasn\u2019t a very good dishwasher. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I didn\u2019t know that! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I was 16; it was one of my first jobs ever; I loved it. Anyway, I guess I wasn\u2019t very good at it. I think I was there about a week. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I\u2019ve told my kids\u2014that if I were their boss, I would fire them, many times. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019ve heard her say that. They had a lawn business: the Wilson Boys\u2019 Lawn and Deck Business. She would be out there, yelling at them, \u201cYou\u2019re the worst workers!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> No, I didn\u2019t say that. [Laughter] But I did say, \u201cI would fire you today if I could!\u201d [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> A lot of our listeners, over the last 12 months, have had this new experience\/this unexpected experience of finding themselves disoriented because they\u2019re no longer working, where they thought they were secure and ensconced. We\u2019re going to spend some time digging into that today with an old friend. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> This is sort of exciting. We\u2019ve got a buddy, from high school, of Bob Lepine\u2019s.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Did you guys graduate the same year?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; same year, yes. This is Dale Kreienkamp. Dale, welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale:<\/strong> Thanks. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Dale\u2019s wife Deb is joining us. Welcome.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Deb:<\/strong> Thank you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We were Class of \u201974 back at Kirkwood High School in St. Louis.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Home of the Fighting\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014Pioneers. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014Pioneers.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oooh.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Did you guys know each other?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We did. It was a big class; we had 800 people in our graduating class. There were some people you knew really well, and some people you knew because\u2014I don\u2019t remember; do you know if we had classes together?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale:<\/strong> We had some classes, but not much. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> It\u2019s one of those\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> All I want to know is: \u201cDale, did you know Bob? Tell us about Bob; what was his reputation?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You have any dirt\/anything?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014anything?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Our listeners are not interested in this. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale:<\/strong> Bob was the <em>coolest<\/em> kid. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, Dale! We needed a <em>little<\/em> dirt. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That was the best $20 I ever spent, right there\u2014was to slip that to Dale and say\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> He had a band; he had hair; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale:<\/strong> He did have hair. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>He did have hair; that\u2019s what you remember. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale:<\/strong> We all did, back then. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes. Dale, has, since graduation, gone on\u2014you spent 25\/30 years in the health care industry; is that right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale:<\/strong> Actually, closer to 40, with two different organizations. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014and involved in HR. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You\u2019ve been on both sides of this issue we\u2019re talking about. You\u2019ve had to call people into your office and say, \u201cI\u2019m sorry; this isn\u2019t working out.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You\u2019ve had <em>your<\/em> employer call you in and say, \u201cWe\u2019re making a shift.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You know a little bit about the disorientation we\u2019re talking about. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale:<\/strong> Oh, absolutely. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> When did it dawn on you, as part of your career, that this is a significant, life-altering moment in anybody\u2019s life, when what they thought was solid is no longer solid underneath them? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale:<\/strong> I think it was relatively early in my career. As we began to make some changes, periodically, I would get involved in that. It\u2019s not one of those things they taught you in school in terms of, \u201cOkay; here\u2019s how we say goodbye to people.\u201d For me, it became very important, not only how we said goodbye, but \u201cHow do we support those people as they exit?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMost often, they did nothing wrong. These were people that were faithful to the organization\/ faithful to the work that they did. For whatever set of circumstances, often economic, there just wasn\u2019t the need that there was before; and we needed to make a decision, and we needed to make a move. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> It\u2019s a different situation if you\u2019re terminating for cause. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> But if there\u2019s a downsize, or if there\u2019s a change in direction, and you\u2019ve got good, faithful people, and you\u2019re having to say, \u201cThis doesn\u2019t work for the corporate objective anymore,\u201d that\u2019s got to be: \u201cWho wants that job?\u201d\/\u201cWho wants <em>your<\/em> job?\u201d is what I\u2019m thinking. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale:<\/strong> Nobody wanted it; nobody wanted it. It\u2019s not one that you\u2019ll ever get people, who walk up to you and say, \u201cThank you; you did that really nice.\u201d That\u2019s not what happens. I\u2019ve had people come back later and say, \u201cYou did about the best that you could. I was angry, but not at you; it was the circumstances.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSometimes it\u2019s even the source of blame\u2014when something happens to us, we want to blame somebody: \u201cWho do we blame?\u201d We\u2019re going to blame the people that had the conversation with us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014the middle man\/the messenger. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> As you process this\u2014in fact, you\u2019ve written a book\/a very helpful book\u2014a devotional for people who are unemployed and for those who are married to the unemployed\u2014it\u2019s a book called <em>How Long, O Lord, How Long?<\/em> Psalm 13, I think, is the one that starts out, \u201cHow long, O Lord, how long will you forget me?\u201d It\u2019s that whole feeling: you talk about anger, and anxiety, and embarrassment, your sense of identity, purpose, your self-confidence, your questioning, despair. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014just a few things. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This triggers such a range of emotion. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale:<\/strong> Yes, it really does; and they aren\u2019t emotions that people think they\u2019re going to experience when they get that message. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob, when you were told, \u201cWe no longer need you. We\u2019re making a change\/a decision\u2026\u201d we often think: \u201cOkay; I\u2019ll find something,\u201d \u201cThis will be good; I\u2019ve got it,\u201d \u201cI\u2019m in control; we\u2019re fine,\u201d\u2014all of that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen, as time goes on\u2014especially if that journey lasts longer than you expect it to\u2014because we often have expectations that are, \u201cOkay; I\u2019ll find something in three months.\u201d If you\u2019re four months into it, you\u2019re starting to say, \u201cOkay; what\u2019s wrong with me?\u201d Those emotions creep in, and we don\u2019t know what to do with them. We even deny that they\u2019re really there. Those emotions are what can trip us up. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; let\u2019s go back to the moment when the earthquake happens\/when the explosion goes off. What\u2019s going on in somebody\u2019s heart and soul in that moment when they\u2019re trying to process what just happened? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale:<\/strong> I think the first thing I\u2019ll say is that it\u2019s shock. For most people, it is shock. Even if you had an understanding that it could happen, it\u2019s still the shock that it <em>did<\/em> happen. All of a sudden, it\u2019s the reality that it changes. Mine was probably, in some ways, like a lot of other people, yet a little bit different because I\u2019m on both sides of that equation. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI was at a large medical center. As head of Human Resources, I had three responsibilities, going into a restructuring. We made the decision that 25 leaders were going to lose their job, and it was going to happen the following Monday. I had to prepare those leaders to have the conversations with those 25 people. I had to figure out: \u201cHow do we support those 25 people that got that unexpected message of: \u2018I don\u2019t have a job\u2019?\u201d And then: \u201cHow do we communicate to an organization\u201d\u2014which had 4,000 employees; probably 1,000 on the medical staff\/volunteers\u2014\u201cwhat does this mean?\u201d Because once that gets announced, everybody\u2019s saying, \u201cWhat\u2019s next? What does this mean?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI was with my Chief Operating Officer, who I reported to at the time; he was with us about a year. He was the one pushing this. I kind of laid out, \u201cHere are all the plans.\u201d He stood behind his chair and said, \u201cThank you.\u201d And then he said, \u201cOh, by the way, your name is on the list.\u201d And in those six little words, I became the 26<sup>th<\/sup> person. Then he said, \u201cYou can stay through this event next week and finish your work if you want. If you want to leave today, I\u2019ll figure out how to deal with it\u201d; and he walked out the door. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Wow; really?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> So Deb, he comes home that night.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014or that day. Did you walk out that day?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale:<\/strong> No, I stayed. I wanted to make sure that we did that well\/that we handled that as best we could. I think I called her. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Deb:<\/strong> My heart just <em>sank<\/em>. And it sank for <em>him<\/em> and for me. I felt like he was so stressed in the job that this was God talking to him that he needed to get out of there. But then it was the reality of the emotions and everything that put us on this rollercoaster of: \u201cWhat\u2019s next?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> When you got the call, your first impulse wasn\u2019t a panic: \u201cHow are we going to pay the bills?\u201d or \u201cWhat\u2019s going to happen?\u201d or \u201cHow does this affect me?\u201d You were thinking, \u201cHow does this affect my husband?\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Deb:<\/strong> Oh, yes; oh, yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014\u201chis emotions?\u2014his sense of self-dignity?\u201d\u2014all of that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Deb:<\/strong> Yes, definitely.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Is that common, do you think, Dale\u2014for a wife or a spouse, who learns about their husband or wife getting fired, do they react with empathy; or do they react with protection for themselves?\u2014or maybe both impulses are there. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale:<\/strong> I think it depends upon that relationship and where it is. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014and I think the character of the man. I\u2019m looking at you, Deb, and I think, \u201cYou trusted Dale in terms of his character, his provision, and who he was, as a man and a man of God.\u201d Is that kind of true?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Deb:<\/strong> Definitely; definitely. I knew he was altogether\u2014I knew that he cared about the people; I knew that he worked so hard\u2014that he would find something else. But I knew it would be so hurtful, because he loved the organization.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019m guessing not every wife responds as admirably as Deb did. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale:<\/strong> No; no they don\u2019t. [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFor me, I\u2019d been there 25 years; so 6 words ended 25 years. I had more or less grown up there. There was a lot to process as well as trying to figure out: \u201cHow do we still hold it together to make it good for the people we had to meet with and do?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And in the back of your mind, had you thought at all, with the 25 people being removed, that maybe your job was on the bubble?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale:<\/strong> I\u2019ve always known that; but again, the project the year before, and this Chief Operating Officer was looking at efficiency statistics. My division was in the top ten percent of every benchmark we looked at, so it wasn\u2019t like you\u2019d have a reason. Ultimately, he told me later\u2014he said, \u201cYou have a great team, and you have a good number too. You make more money than them, so I\u2019m saving money.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Wow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Walk us through the stages in the emotions that you went through. I\u2019m assuming you were angry and hurt, especially at first, or maybe shocked. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale: <\/strong>I was hurt. I was hurt because I had given my life to that place. To see it end that way just didn\u2019t seem right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I\u2019m angry <em>for<\/em> you. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale:<\/strong> Then, it\u2019s: \u201cHow do you tell people?\u201d I had a meeting the following Monday with my staff. The rumors started to swirl that there was something else going on that was coming up. That was hard to tell people that had come from other organizations to work for me, or that I had brought into their career and mentored. All of a sudden to say that \u201cI\u2019m not going to be here,\u201d was <em>hard<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDid my position\u2014so Dave, let\u2019s go to you\u2014there\u2019s only so many football teams that have chaplains. If you really wanted to continue a career as a chaplain, where are you going to go to do football as a chaplain?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> All the other teams were calling me. Just that day, they all started calling. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale:<\/strong> \u201cHe\u2019s available,\u201d \u201cHe\u2019s available!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014because you had such a winning record. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I had such a great winning record; nobody was calling. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale:<\/strong> We were one of the top 35 employers in the metropolitan area, so you knew the type of job that I had. Those don\u2019t grow on trees. I wanted to stay in St. Louis: that\u2019s where family was; that\u2019s where kids and everybody else were. At that time, we had two sons in college and one in private high school. These were what we call the heavy cash-flow years.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Oh! Yes!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> We\u2019re feeling it for you. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale:<\/strong> There\u2019s just so much that goes through your head at that point in time. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I remember, when I got fired the first time from a job, first of all, calling Mary Ann. In the back of my mind, I thought, \u201cIs she going to think there\u2019s something defective about me? Is she going to think, \u2018What did you do? This is your fault\u2019\u201d? I\u2019m feeling the weight of keeping my job is my responsibility, and I just dropped the ball. \u201cIs she going to think less of me as a husband?\u201d Then, telling friends.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014it\u2019s embarrassing. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Sure, it\u2019s embarrassing. They say, \u201cWhat happened?\u201d There\u2019s this instinct to want to say, \u201cIt wasn\u2019t me; I didn\u2019t\u2026.\u201d But you also don\u2019t want to be saying, \u201cWell, this lousy company...\u201d It\u2019s a <em>very<\/em> awkward place to be. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale:<\/strong> And people <em>don\u2019t<\/em> talk about it, Bob; that is the challenge. That\u2019s why unemployment is kind of the elephant in the room. People know about it, but the person who loses their job doesn\u2019t talk about it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And why is that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale:<\/strong> I think it\u2019s the embarrassment\/the shame that it happened. I got cut from the baseball team in high school. It was before social media, so I didn\u2019t have anything to post; but I wasn\u2019t going to come home, pick up the phone and start calling all my friends to say, \u201cHey, guys; I got cut from the baseball team.\u201d You let that information drift out when it can. People just don\u2019t talk about it; they just kind of let it go. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThose conversations aren\u2019t easy conversations. How do you say, \u201cI\u2019m okay\u201d?\u2014because you know they\u2019re worried about you. How do you say, \u201cI don\u2019t know what\u2019s next, but I\u2019m okay with that,\u201d even when maybe I\u2019m not okay with that because you\u2019re trying to reassure other people. We have this instinct to want to reassure everybody that we\u2019re okay. Then, inside, you\u2019re going, \u201cWhat\u2019s next? I don\u2019t know!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I was looking at the back of your book: the Kubler Ross Change Curve. I\u2019m looking\/I\u2019m thinking, \u201cAt the very beginning, shock, confusion, fear, denial; and then anger\u2014and it keeps going.\u201d I\u2019ve been there. I\u2019m sure you were there; I\u2019m sure you were there. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne thing that was interesting\u2014being in the Lions locker room for 33 seasons\u2014is watching players get fired. They call it \u201ccut\u201d in the NFL, but it\u2019s <em>fired<\/em>. It\u2019s <em>traumatic<\/em> for these young men. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> We also had a son that had gone through it\u2014three times?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; Cody played for the Lions\u2014our youngest\u2014and was fired three different times and rehired. He has four different Detroit Lions jersey numbers; because each time he came back, they gave him a different number. Three of them were injuries, and he healed and came back. Watching him go through it\/but watching players go through it\u2014all that\u2014there\u2019s shock; there\u2019s confusion. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI can remember being in locker rooms before games. Guys would be all fired up; I\u2019d walk over and go, \u201cDude, man, you are like ready to go.\u201d He goes, \u201cThey cut me last year\u2014that team cut me!\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cOh, this is more than just \u2018I want to win a football game\u2019; \u2018I\u2019m going to prove to my old employer that they never should have fired me.\u2019\u201d It\u2019s <em>anger<\/em> in a locker room. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou experienced that. Everybody experiences that\u2014right?\u2014that confusion, that shock, that fear. Here\u2019s the big one I want to know about: <em>fear<\/em>. There\u2019s real fear that you feel, especially as a man, if you\u2019re a provider: \u201cI have to provide.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014and a woman\/even a single mom.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale: <\/strong>True.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> There you go. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale:<\/strong> I think that is the interesting thing. There is a lot of single parents that are losing jobs. They\u2019re by themselves, which is exceptionally hard on them. Fear is there, because we love certainty. Being unemployed is uncertain. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf I told you, \u201cAnn, you\u2019ve lost your job; but you\u2019re going to have a new job in four months,\u201d you\u2019d say, \u201cOkay; that\u2019s longer than I want; but mentally, I can handle it.\u201d There\u2019s just uncertainty as to when that\u2019s going to be\/when it\u2019s going to happen. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe don\u2019t know when it\u2019s going to happen\u2014that brings in the fear as you try and figure it out. People then go into what I call the \u201cwill\u201d questions. They start saying to themselves: \u201cWill I ever find another job?\u201d \u201cWill it pay as much as the last job?\u201d \u201cWill I be successful?\u201d \u201cWill I have to move to another city?\u201d \u201cWill I lose my house?\u201d There aren\u2019t answers for those questions. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen I talk to people about it, I tell them\u2014I saw a poster one time; which was really good\u2014it said: \u201cWorry is a conversation we have with ourselves about things we can\u2019t change. Prayer is a conversation with God about things that He can.\u201d It\u2019s a reminder to people that: \u201cIn the midst of those fears, we\u2019ve got to give it to God; because we can\u2019t do it. We don\u2019t have the answers.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> How did your faith help you in the midst of this earthquake that was going on?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale:<\/strong> If I didn\u2019t have it\u2014and I didn\u2019t have Deb\u2014I would have been a basket case. [Laughter] It did\/it starts to attack everything. One of the <em>worst<\/em> things we do is we compare. If the four of us were in the same organization, and we all were told on the same day our jobs are gone\u2014which has happened to a lot of people today with COVID\u2014if Dave finds a job in three months, and you find a job in four months, and Ann in five\u2014and I\u2019m still there at six\u2014I\u2019m going, \u201cWhat\u2019s wrong with me? Why did they get a job, and I didn\u2019t get a job?\u201d It tears at the fabric of who we are. That\u2019s when the confidence starts to fall. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> We\u2019ve got somebody sitting right now, listening to this broadcast, either on a radio station or a podcast, they\u2019re out of work or furloughed because of COVID or other reasons for, maybe, months. What would you say to them?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale:<\/strong> \u201cIt\u2019s going to be okay; God\u2019s got you. But you\u2019re going to go through some difficult times. This is a roller coaster, so strap yourself in. It is going to be emotional highs and lows that you don\u2019t expect. But God\u2019s got you; He\u2019s not going to let you fall. Out of this, you\u2019re going to look back, and you\u2019re going to be <em>amazed<\/em> at His hand in it; but when you\u2019re in the barrel, it\u2019s not going to be easy. But God\u2019s got you.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I\u2019ve looked back on the two firings and can see now that, in both of those situations, I wound up somewhere better that I never would\u2019ve gone on my own. It was God dislodging me from where I would\u2019ve stayed because of what He had next for me. You can\u2019t see that in the moment. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> No; I\u2019m thinking the same thing. I\u2019m sitting in this chair right here with Ann at <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> because I\u2019m not working with the Lions. I don\u2019t think I would\u2019ve been able to do both. At the moment, I was like, \u201cI can\u2019t believe they fired the best chaplain in the NFL! [Laughter] What were they thinking?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale:<\/strong> Everybody is wondering that. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>But here we are; God had a plan behind the whole thing. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; this is where, in the moment, to have someone who can coach <em>you<\/em> in the midst of what you\u2019re going through, I think it\u2019s so helpful. And this, Dale, is why I love what you\u2019ve done in the devotional you\u2019ve written: <em>How Long, O Lord, How Long?<\/em>: <em>Devotions for the Unemployed and Those Who Love Them<\/em>. This is such an important book. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe want to make it available this week to any of our listeners who can make a donation to help support the work of <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em> Your donations make these kind of conversations possible. You help us reach hundreds of thousands of people every day with practical biblical help and hope for the challenges they face in their marriages and in their families\u2014the challenges like the challenge of being unemployed. When you make a donation today, be sure to request your copy of the book, <em>How Long, O Lord, How Long?<\/em> \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLet me say\u2014you ought to get a copy of this book and pass it on to someone you know who has been laid off. Help them out\u2014reach out and give them a gift\u2014a copy of Dale\u2019s book. Again, the book is our way of saying, \u201cThanks,\u201d when you make a donation to support the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Request it when you go online at FamilyLifeToday.com to donate or when you call 1-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you are a regular <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listener, and from time to time, you miss one of our programs because of your schedule, you can download the new FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> mobile app on any of your devices; and you can listen whenever it\u2019s convenient for you. Or you can listen to past programs. The app is brand new; it\u2019s easy to use. All you have to do is go to your app store, type in the name \u201cFamilyLife\u201d; you\u2019ll find it there. It\u2019s free to download. Again, look for the FamilyLife mobile app in your app store. Download it, and you can catch up on programs you may have missed over the past several weeks. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe hope you can join us, again, tomorrow. We\u2019re going to talk about how our job is connected to our sense of self and how we can experience some real emotional disequilibrium when we lose a job. Dale Kreienkamp will be back, again, with us tomorrow. I hope you can be with us as well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2020 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:27:36"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["25.28M"],"filesize_raw":["26502890"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-306498.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-306498.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom 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Kreienkamp talks about the variety of emotions a person feels after being laid off. He reminds those who are unemployed that it's going to be okay, but it will be hard, with emotional highs and lows. Ultimately, you'll see God's hand of provision in your life.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2020-10-26.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Dale Kreienkamp spent many years as the head of Human Resources for a large company. That company was facing a layoff; 25 people were going to be let go. It was Dale\u2019s job to have to break the news. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale:<\/strong> I was with my Chief Operating Officer, who I reported to at the time; he was with us about a year. He stood behind his chair and said, \u201cThank you.\u201d And then he said, \u201cOh, by the way, your name is on the list.\u201d And in those six little words, I became the 26<sup>th<\/sup> person. For me, I\u2019d been there for 25 years; so six words ended 25 years. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Monday, October 26<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I'm Bob Lepine. You can find us online at FamilyLifeToday.com. A lot of people in the last several months have experienced what Dale experienced\u2014being laid off from a long-time job. How do you deal with that? We\u2019ll talk with Dale about that today. Stay with us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. You\u2019ve never had this happen; I\u2019ve had this happen to me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I don\u2019t know what you\u2019re talking about. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> It was a Monday morning; I came to work, working at a radio station. The boss said, \u201cCan you come into the office for a moment?\u201d I said, \u201cSure.\u201d I came into his office and sat down. He took a deep breath and sighed and said, \u201cI\u2019ve decided it\u2019s in your best interest and in the best interest of the station for us to let you go,\u201d\u2014completely out of the blue. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You had <em>no<\/em> idea. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> No clue. I\u2019d been salesman of the month two months before; it was just a complete stunner\/shocker. Called my wife and said, \u201cI\u2019m going to be home early today, and be there tomorrow, and be there the next day.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Did you have kids at the time?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Oh, yes; in fact, we had one. We found out, a month later, Mary Ann was pregnant with number two. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> So that\u2019s even more scary. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> It was disorienting; right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen, a couple years later, another situation: I had an employer call and say, \u201cWe don\u2019t think this is working out.\u201d What I learned is that he had hired me for a job; the guy he really wanted for the job was not available. Nine months later, the guy he really wanted for the job became available. The fact that it wasn\u2019t working out was really the other thing <em>was <\/em>working out. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019ve been through\u2014you\u2019ve never\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; the first thought I had was that I had a job in high school\u2014Ann doesn\u2019t even know this\u2014I was a dishwasher at Marathon Oil Company in Finley, Ohio. I got fired because I wasn\u2019t a very good dishwasher. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I didn\u2019t know that! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I was 16; it was one of my first jobs ever; I loved it. Anyway, I guess I wasn\u2019t very good at it. I think I was there about a week. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I\u2019ve told my kids\u2014that if I were their boss, I would fire them, many times. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019ve heard her say that. They had a lawn business: the Wilson Boys\u2019 Lawn and Deck Business. She would be out there, yelling at them, \u201cYou\u2019re the worst workers!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> No, I didn\u2019t say that. [Laughter] But I did say, \u201cI would fire you today if I could!\u201d [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> A lot of our listeners, over the last 12 months, have had this new experience\/this unexpected experience of finding themselves disoriented because they\u2019re no longer working, where they thought they were secure and ensconced. We\u2019re going to spend some time digging into that today with an old friend. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> This is sort of exciting. We\u2019ve got a buddy, from high school, of Bob Lepine\u2019s.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Did you guys graduate the same year?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; same year, yes. This is Dale Kreienkamp. Dale, welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale:<\/strong> Thanks. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Dale\u2019s wife Deb is joining us. Welcome.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Deb:<\/strong> Thank you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We were Class of \u201974 back at Kirkwood High School in St. Louis.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Home of the Fighting\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014Pioneers. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014Pioneers.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oooh.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Did you guys know each other?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We did. It was a big class; we had 800 people in our graduating class. There were some people you knew really well, and some people you knew because\u2014I don\u2019t remember; do you know if we had classes together?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale:<\/strong> We had some classes, but not much. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> It\u2019s one of those\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> All I want to know is: \u201cDale, did you know Bob? Tell us about Bob; what was his reputation?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You have any dirt\/anything?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014anything?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Our listeners are not interested in this. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale:<\/strong> Bob was the <em>coolest<\/em> kid. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, Dale! We needed a <em>little<\/em> dirt. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That was the best $20 I ever spent, right there\u2014was to slip that to Dale and say\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> He had a band; he had hair; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale:<\/strong> He did have hair. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>He did have hair; that\u2019s what you remember. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale:<\/strong> We all did, back then. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes. Dale, has, since graduation, gone on\u2014you spent 25\/30 years in the health care industry; is that right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale:<\/strong> Actually, closer to 40, with two different organizations. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014and involved in HR. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You\u2019ve been on both sides of this issue we\u2019re talking about. You\u2019ve had to call people into your office and say, \u201cI\u2019m sorry; this isn\u2019t working out.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You\u2019ve had <em>your<\/em> employer call you in and say, \u201cWe\u2019re making a shift.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You know a little bit about the disorientation we\u2019re talking about. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale:<\/strong> Oh, absolutely. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> When did it dawn on you, as part of your career, that this is a significant, life-altering moment in anybody\u2019s life, when what they thought was solid is no longer solid underneath them? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale:<\/strong> I think it was relatively early in my career. As we began to make some changes, periodically, I would get involved in that. It\u2019s not one of those things they taught you in school in terms of, \u201cOkay; here\u2019s how we say goodbye to people.\u201d For me, it became very important, not only how we said goodbye, but \u201cHow do we support those people as they exit?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMost often, they did nothing wrong. These were people that were faithful to the organization\/ faithful to the work that they did. For whatever set of circumstances, often economic, there just wasn\u2019t the need that there was before; and we needed to make a decision, and we needed to make a move. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> It\u2019s a different situation if you\u2019re terminating for cause. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> But if there\u2019s a downsize, or if there\u2019s a change in direction, and you\u2019ve got good, faithful people, and you\u2019re having to say, \u201cThis doesn\u2019t work for the corporate objective anymore,\u201d that\u2019s got to be: \u201cWho wants that job?\u201d\/\u201cWho wants <em>your<\/em> job?\u201d is what I\u2019m thinking. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale:<\/strong> Nobody wanted it; nobody wanted it. It\u2019s not one that you\u2019ll ever get people, who walk up to you and say, \u201cThank you; you did that really nice.\u201d That\u2019s not what happens. I\u2019ve had people come back later and say, \u201cYou did about the best that you could. I was angry, but not at you; it was the circumstances.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSometimes it\u2019s even the source of blame\u2014when something happens to us, we want to blame somebody: \u201cWho do we blame?\u201d We\u2019re going to blame the people that had the conversation with us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014the middle man\/the messenger. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> As you process this\u2014in fact, you\u2019ve written a book\/a very helpful book\u2014a devotional for people who are unemployed and for those who are married to the unemployed\u2014it\u2019s a book called <em>How Long, O Lord, How Long?<\/em> Psalm 13, I think, is the one that starts out, \u201cHow long, O Lord, how long will you forget me?\u201d It\u2019s that whole feeling: you talk about anger, and anxiety, and embarrassment, your sense of identity, purpose, your self-confidence, your questioning, despair. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014just a few things. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This triggers such a range of emotion. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale:<\/strong> Yes, it really does; and they aren\u2019t emotions that people think they\u2019re going to experience when they get that message. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBob, when you were told, \u201cWe no longer need you. We\u2019re making a change\/a decision\u2026\u201d we often think: \u201cOkay; I\u2019ll find something,\u201d \u201cThis will be good; I\u2019ve got it,\u201d \u201cI\u2019m in control; we\u2019re fine,\u201d\u2014all of that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen, as time goes on\u2014especially if that journey lasts longer than you expect it to\u2014because we often have expectations that are, \u201cOkay; I\u2019ll find something in three months.\u201d If you\u2019re four months into it, you\u2019re starting to say, \u201cOkay; what\u2019s wrong with me?\u201d Those emotions creep in, and we don\u2019t know what to do with them. We even deny that they\u2019re really there. Those emotions are what can trip us up. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; let\u2019s go back to the moment when the earthquake happens\/when the explosion goes off. What\u2019s going on in somebody\u2019s heart and soul in that moment when they\u2019re trying to process what just happened? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale:<\/strong> I think the first thing I\u2019ll say is that it\u2019s shock. For most people, it is shock. Even if you had an understanding that it could happen, it\u2019s still the shock that it <em>did<\/em> happen. All of a sudden, it\u2019s the reality that it changes. Mine was probably, in some ways, like a lot of other people, yet a little bit different because I\u2019m on both sides of that equation. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI was at a large medical center. As head of Human Resources, I had three responsibilities, going into a restructuring. We made the decision that 25 leaders were going to lose their job, and it was going to happen the following Monday. I had to prepare those leaders to have the conversations with those 25 people. I had to figure out: \u201cHow do we support those 25 people that got that unexpected message of: \u2018I don\u2019t have a job\u2019?\u201d And then: \u201cHow do we communicate to an organization\u201d\u2014which had 4,000 employees; probably 1,000 on the medical staff\/volunteers\u2014\u201cwhat does this mean?\u201d Because once that gets announced, everybody\u2019s saying, \u201cWhat\u2019s next? What does this mean?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI was with my Chief Operating Officer, who I reported to at the time; he was with us about a year. He was the one pushing this. I kind of laid out, \u201cHere are all the plans.\u201d He stood behind his chair and said, \u201cThank you.\u201d And then he said, \u201cOh, by the way, your name is on the list.\u201d And in those six little words, I became the 26<sup>th<\/sup> person. Then he said, \u201cYou can stay through this event next week and finish your work if you want. If you want to leave today, I\u2019ll figure out how to deal with it\u201d; and he walked out the door. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Wow; really?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> So Deb, he comes home that night.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014or that day. Did you walk out that day?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale:<\/strong> No, I stayed. I wanted to make sure that we did that well\/that we handled that as best we could. I think I called her. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Deb:<\/strong> My heart just <em>sank<\/em>. And it sank for <em>him<\/em> and for me. I felt like he was so stressed in the job that this was God talking to him that he needed to get out of there. But then it was the reality of the emotions and everything that put us on this rollercoaster of: \u201cWhat\u2019s next?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> When you got the call, your first impulse wasn\u2019t a panic: \u201cHow are we going to pay the bills?\u201d or \u201cWhat\u2019s going to happen?\u201d or \u201cHow does this affect me?\u201d You were thinking, \u201cHow does this affect my husband?\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Deb:<\/strong> Oh, yes; oh, yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014\u201chis emotions?\u2014his sense of self-dignity?\u201d\u2014all of that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Deb:<\/strong> Yes, definitely.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Is that common, do you think, Dale\u2014for a wife or a spouse, who learns about their husband or wife getting fired, do they react with empathy; or do they react with protection for themselves?\u2014or maybe both impulses are there. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale:<\/strong> I think it depends upon that relationship and where it is. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014and I think the character of the man. I\u2019m looking at you, Deb, and I think, \u201cYou trusted Dale in terms of his character, his provision, and who he was, as a man and a man of God.\u201d Is that kind of true?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Deb:<\/strong> Definitely; definitely. I knew he was altogether\u2014I knew that he cared about the people; I knew that he worked so hard\u2014that he would find something else. But I knew it would be so hurtful, because he loved the organization.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019m guessing not every wife responds as admirably as Deb did. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale:<\/strong> No; no they don\u2019t. [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFor me, I\u2019d been there 25 years; so 6 words ended 25 years. I had more or less grown up there. There was a lot to process as well as trying to figure out: \u201cHow do we still hold it together to make it good for the people we had to meet with and do?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And in the back of your mind, had you thought at all, with the 25 people being removed, that maybe your job was on the bubble?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale:<\/strong> I\u2019ve always known that; but again, the project the year before, and this Chief Operating Officer was looking at efficiency statistics. My division was in the top ten percent of every benchmark we looked at, so it wasn\u2019t like you\u2019d have a reason. Ultimately, he told me later\u2014he said, \u201cYou have a great team, and you have a good number too. You make more money than them, so I\u2019m saving money.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Wow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Walk us through the stages in the emotions that you went through. I\u2019m assuming you were angry and hurt, especially at first, or maybe shocked. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale: <\/strong>I was hurt. I was hurt because I had given my life to that place. To see it end that way just didn\u2019t seem right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I\u2019m angry <em>for<\/em> you. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale:<\/strong> Then, it\u2019s: \u201cHow do you tell people?\u201d I had a meeting the following Monday with my staff. The rumors started to swirl that there was something else going on that was coming up. That was hard to tell people that had come from other organizations to work for me, or that I had brought into their career and mentored. All of a sudden to say that \u201cI\u2019m not going to be here,\u201d was <em>hard<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDid my position\u2014so Dave, let\u2019s go to you\u2014there\u2019s only so many football teams that have chaplains. If you really wanted to continue a career as a chaplain, where are you going to go to do football as a chaplain?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> All the other teams were calling me. Just that day, they all started calling. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale:<\/strong> \u201cHe\u2019s available,\u201d \u201cHe\u2019s available!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014because you had such a winning record. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I had such a great winning record; nobody was calling. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale:<\/strong> We were one of the top 35 employers in the metropolitan area, so you knew the type of job that I had. Those don\u2019t grow on trees. I wanted to stay in St. Louis: that\u2019s where family was; that\u2019s where kids and everybody else were. At that time, we had two sons in college and one in private high school. These were what we call the heavy cash-flow years.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Oh! Yes!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> We\u2019re feeling it for you. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale:<\/strong> There\u2019s just so much that goes through your head at that point in time. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I remember, when I got fired the first time from a job, first of all, calling Mary Ann. In the back of my mind, I thought, \u201cIs she going to think there\u2019s something defective about me? Is she going to think, \u2018What did you do? This is your fault\u2019\u201d? I\u2019m feeling the weight of keeping my job is my responsibility, and I just dropped the ball. \u201cIs she going to think less of me as a husband?\u201d Then, telling friends.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014it\u2019s embarrassing. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Sure, it\u2019s embarrassing. They say, \u201cWhat happened?\u201d There\u2019s this instinct to want to say, \u201cIt wasn\u2019t me; I didn\u2019t\u2026.\u201d But you also don\u2019t want to be saying, \u201cWell, this lousy company...\u201d It\u2019s a <em>very<\/em> awkward place to be. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale:<\/strong> And people <em>don\u2019t<\/em> talk about it, Bob; that is the challenge. That\u2019s why unemployment is kind of the elephant in the room. People know about it, but the person who loses their job doesn\u2019t talk about it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And why is that?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale:<\/strong> I think it\u2019s the embarrassment\/the shame that it happened. I got cut from the baseball team in high school. It was before social media, so I didn\u2019t have anything to post; but I wasn\u2019t going to come home, pick up the phone and start calling all my friends to say, \u201cHey, guys; I got cut from the baseball team.\u201d You let that information drift out when it can. People just don\u2019t talk about it; they just kind of let it go. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThose conversations aren\u2019t easy conversations. How do you say, \u201cI\u2019m okay\u201d?\u2014because you know they\u2019re worried about you. How do you say, \u201cI don\u2019t know what\u2019s next, but I\u2019m okay with that,\u201d even when maybe I\u2019m not okay with that because you\u2019re trying to reassure other people. We have this instinct to want to reassure everybody that we\u2019re okay. Then, inside, you\u2019re going, \u201cWhat\u2019s next? I don\u2019t know!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I was looking at the back of your book: the Kubler Ross Change Curve. I\u2019m looking\/I\u2019m thinking, \u201cAt the very beginning, shock, confusion, fear, denial; and then anger\u2014and it keeps going.\u201d I\u2019ve been there. I\u2019m sure you were there; I\u2019m sure you were there. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne thing that was interesting\u2014being in the Lions locker room for 33 seasons\u2014is watching players get fired. They call it \u201ccut\u201d in the NFL, but it\u2019s <em>fired<\/em>. It\u2019s <em>traumatic<\/em> for these young men. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> We also had a son that had gone through it\u2014three times?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; Cody played for the Lions\u2014our youngest\u2014and was fired three different times and rehired. He has four different Detroit Lions jersey numbers; because each time he came back, they gave him a different number. Three of them were injuries, and he healed and came back. Watching him go through it\/but watching players go through it\u2014all that\u2014there\u2019s shock; there\u2019s confusion. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI can remember being in locker rooms before games. Guys would be all fired up; I\u2019d walk over and go, \u201cDude, man, you are like ready to go.\u201d He goes, \u201cThey cut me last year\u2014that team cut me!\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cOh, this is more than just \u2018I want to win a football game\u2019; \u2018I\u2019m going to prove to my old employer that they never should have fired me.\u2019\u201d It\u2019s <em>anger<\/em> in a locker room. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou experienced that. Everybody experiences that\u2014right?\u2014that confusion, that shock, that fear. Here\u2019s the big one I want to know about: <em>fear<\/em>. There\u2019s real fear that you feel, especially as a man, if you\u2019re a provider: \u201cI have to provide.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014and a woman\/even a single mom.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale: <\/strong>True.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> There you go. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale:<\/strong> I think that is the interesting thing. There is a lot of single parents that are losing jobs. They\u2019re by themselves, which is exceptionally hard on them. Fear is there, because we love certainty. Being unemployed is uncertain. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf I told you, \u201cAnn, you\u2019ve lost your job; but you\u2019re going to have a new job in four months,\u201d you\u2019d say, \u201cOkay; that\u2019s longer than I want; but mentally, I can handle it.\u201d There\u2019s just uncertainty as to when that\u2019s going to be\/when it\u2019s going to happen. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe don\u2019t know when it\u2019s going to happen\u2014that brings in the fear as you try and figure it out. People then go into what I call the \u201cwill\u201d questions. They start saying to themselves: \u201cWill I ever find another job?\u201d \u201cWill it pay as much as the last job?\u201d \u201cWill I be successful?\u201d \u201cWill I have to move to another city?\u201d \u201cWill I lose my house?\u201d There aren\u2019t answers for those questions. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen I talk to people about it, I tell them\u2014I saw a poster one time; which was really good\u2014it said: \u201cWorry is a conversation we have with ourselves about things we can\u2019t change. Prayer is a conversation with God about things that He can.\u201d It\u2019s a reminder to people that: \u201cIn the midst of those fears, we\u2019ve got to give it to God; because we can\u2019t do it. We don\u2019t have the answers.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> How did your faith help you in the midst of this earthquake that was going on?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale:<\/strong> If I didn\u2019t have it\u2014and I didn\u2019t have Deb\u2014I would have been a basket case. [Laughter] It did\/it starts to attack everything. One of the <em>worst<\/em> things we do is we compare. If the four of us were in the same organization, and we all were told on the same day our jobs are gone\u2014which has happened to a lot of people today with COVID\u2014if Dave finds a job in three months, and you find a job in four months, and Ann in five\u2014and I\u2019m still there at six\u2014I\u2019m going, \u201cWhat\u2019s wrong with me? Why did they get a job, and I didn\u2019t get a job?\u201d It tears at the fabric of who we are. That\u2019s when the confidence starts to fall. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> We\u2019ve got somebody sitting right now, listening to this broadcast, either on a radio station or a podcast, they\u2019re out of work or furloughed because of COVID or other reasons for, maybe, months. What would you say to them?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale:<\/strong> \u201cIt\u2019s going to be okay; God\u2019s got you. But you\u2019re going to go through some difficult times. This is a roller coaster, so strap yourself in. It is going to be emotional highs and lows that you don\u2019t expect. But God\u2019s got you; He\u2019s not going to let you fall. Out of this, you\u2019re going to look back, and you\u2019re going to be <em>amazed<\/em> at His hand in it; but when you\u2019re in the barrel, it\u2019s not going to be easy. But God\u2019s got you.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I\u2019ve looked back on the two firings and can see now that, in both of those situations, I wound up somewhere better that I never would\u2019ve gone on my own. It was God dislodging me from where I would\u2019ve stayed because of what He had next for me. You can\u2019t see that in the moment. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> No; I\u2019m thinking the same thing. I\u2019m sitting in this chair right here with Ann at <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> because I\u2019m not working with the Lions. I don\u2019t think I would\u2019ve been able to do both. At the moment, I was like, \u201cI can\u2019t believe they fired the best chaplain in the NFL! [Laughter] What were they thinking?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dale:<\/strong> Everybody is wondering that. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>But here we are; God had a plan behind the whole thing. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; this is where, in the moment, to have someone who can coach <em>you<\/em> in the midst of what you\u2019re going through, I think it\u2019s so helpful. And this, Dale, is why I love what you\u2019ve done in the devotional you\u2019ve written: <em>How Long, O Lord, How Long?<\/em>: <em>Devotions for the Unemployed and Those Who Love Them<\/em>. This is such an important book. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe want to make it available this week to any of our listeners who can make a donation to help support the work of <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em> Your donations make these kind of conversations possible. You help us reach hundreds of thousands of people every day with practical biblical help and hope for the challenges they face in their marriages and in their families\u2014the challenges like the challenge of being unemployed. When you make a donation today, be sure to request your copy of the book, <em>How Long, O Lord, How Long?<\/em> \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLet me say\u2014you ought to get a copy of this book and pass it on to someone you know who has been laid off. Help them out\u2014reach out and give them a gift\u2014a copy of Dale\u2019s book. Again, the book is our way of saying, \u201cThanks,\u201d when you make a donation to support the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Request it when you go online at FamilyLifeToday.com to donate or when you call 1-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you are a regular <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listener, and from time to time, you miss one of our programs because of your schedule, you can download the new FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> mobile app on any of your devices; and you can listen whenever it\u2019s convenient for you. Or you can listen to past programs. The app is brand new; it\u2019s easy to use. All you have to do is go to your app store, type in the name \u201cFamilyLife\u201d; you\u2019ll find it there. It\u2019s free to download. Again, look for the FamilyLife mobile app in your app store. Download it, and you can catch up on programs you may have missed over the past several weeks. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe hope you can join us, again, tomorrow. We\u2019re going to talk about how our job is connected to our sense of self and how we can experience some real emotional disequilibrium when we lose a job. Dale Kreienkamp will be back, again, with us tomorrow. I hope you can be with us as well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2020 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/306498","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=306498"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=306498"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=306498"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=306498"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=306498"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=306498"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=306498"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}