{"id":306467,"date":"2020-10-09T07:00:04","date_gmt":"2020-10-09T11:00:04","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/saints-and-scoundrels\/"},"modified":"2020-10-09T07:00:04","modified_gmt":"2020-10-09T11:00:04","slug":"saints-and-scoundrels","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/saints-and-scoundrels\/","title":{"rendered":"Saints and Scoundrels"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Every extended family has in it people who are far from God. But it&#8217;s never too late, says Nancy Guthrie, for God to reach the most self-righteous or the most cynical and hard-hearted.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2020-10-09.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:27:54","filesize":"25.55M","filesize_raw":"26788028","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2906,2821],"tags":[6954],"podcast_series":[],"cwp_profile":[9556],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-306467","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-becoming-a-christian","category-reaching-out","tag-family-dynamics","cwp_profile-nancy-guthrie","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/306467\/saints-and-scoundrels","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/306467\/saints-and-scoundrels","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"OM6hReEDzk\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/saints-and-scoundrels\/\">Saints and Scoundrels<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/saints-and-scoundrels\/embed\/#?secret=OM6hReEDzk\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Saints and Scoundrels&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"OM6hReEDzk\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg",508,508,false]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"kfairris@familylife.com","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/kfairrisfamilylife-com\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"Every extended family has in it people who are far from God. But it's never too late, says Nancy Guthrie, for God to reach the most self-righteous or the most cynical and hard-hearted.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2020-10-09.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Jesus' brother, James, grew up with Him\/lived with Himhis whole life and still did not believe that Jesus was who He claimed to be until Jesus rose from the grave. Nancy Guthrie says James' persistent unbelief, and his ultimate surrender to Jesus as his Lord, gives us hope for what Jesus might do in the life of any of our family members. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy: <\/strong>He can reveal Himself to the most hardened, cynical family member you have in a way that would overcome doubts and overcome their passionate disregard for Jesus, so that they then would become a passionate servant of Jesus. That's what happened in Jesus' family, and I think that gives us hope for our own families. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Friday, October 9<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I'm Bob Lepine. You can find us online at FamilyLifeToday.com. Nancy Guthrie says the Bible is full of stories of both saints and scoundrels. In fact, all of us were scoundrels before we came to faith, and that should give us hope that God \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tcan still work in the lives of <em>any<\/em> of our family members. We'll talk more about that today. Stay with us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to<em> FamilyLife Today.<\/em> Thanks for joining us. Here's a little pro-tip for those of you who are regular listeners: \u201cIf you ever notice, online, that there's a new book coming out from Nancy Guthrie, you can say, \u2018Oh, I wonder when she'll be on <em>FamilyLife Today,\u2019\u201d<\/em>\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014because we love her. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014because anytime there's a new book coming out, the door is open. Nancy, welcome.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>She writes a lot of books; she's going to be on <em>FamilyLife <\/em>a lot. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy: <\/strong>Some people might say that I started talking and won't shut up. [Laughter] You guys put it very nicely, and I really appreciate it. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Nancy is an author and a speaker\u2014and is doing a lot online these days\u2014Bible studies that you can engage with online. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe first chatted with you and your husband more than two decades ago; wasn't it?\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> \u20142002. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014over the loss of your daughter, Hope, and your son, Gabriel. We're just grateful you keep coming back. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy: <\/strong>Thank you for letting me come back. I'm excited to talk to you guys today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>When I saw that you'd written this book about saints and scoundrels in the Bible, and I dug into it, I thought, \u201cJesus' family tree\u2014He comes from a dysfunctional family.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI thought, \u201cWe need to get you here and talk about how interesting it is that the Son of God would enter humanity in the midst of a family, like all of our families, has all kinds of \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tdysfunction.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy: <\/strong>Isn't that true? You know, you and I didn't get to choose what family we were born into. But from the very beginning of this family, you want to say to God, \u201cYou could've done better than this.\u201d [Laughter] I mean, as you go all the way back to Abraham, Isaac\u2014then you get to those 12 sons of Jacob. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh! There's so much dysfunction. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy: <\/strong>Oh <em>my<\/em> goodness. And we know, right then, that this is the family He's chosen He's going to be born into. And then, when we turn the page to the New Testament, Matthew begins his Gospel by giving us a genealogy of Jesus. He wants to show Jesus is this son of Abraham, through whom all the families of the earth will be blessed. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJesus is this son of David, who is the Son who's going to sit on his throne forever. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut I think he's doing a little bit more than that with this genealogy, by who he includes and even who he <em>doesn't<\/em> include. You go through the genealogy; and it's quite surprising that, in a Jewish genealogy, they would mention women <em>at all<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy: <\/strong>The first woman mentioned is Tamar, who was Judah's daughter-in-law, that he slept with, and impregnated her. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>That's not weird at all. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy: <\/strong>Ooh; you've got Rahab, who is running this brothel, basically, when the Israelite spies come in. She ends up marrying into the family. And we discover a couple of generations later, when we get to Boaz\u2014Boaz is her son\u2014and who does Boaz marry?\u2014he marries a <em>Moabitess<\/em>, Ruth. Well, what is a Moabite?\u2014they come from the family of Lot, out of his incestuous relationship with his daughters. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo just so much of this. And then he [Matthew] takes care\u2014it's interesting when he talks about Solomon\u2014that he is the son of David\u2014but he really calls him the son of Bathsheba, wife of the Hittite. It's like a reminder: \u201cYou remember what happened here in regard to David taking her into his household.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd all of those kind of preparing you for Mary. Of course, even though she's a virgin and innocent, there's sexual scandal; is there not [because of people\u2019s presumptions]? It's fascinating what he's doing there.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>What is he doing? Because, you know, I grew up in a church [sporadically]; and I <em>never<\/em> heard any of this. It was all sanitized; it was all\u2014everybody in the line\/everybody in the Bible, almost, was <em>perfect<\/em>. Obviously\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014all the way to the immaculate conception. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Exactly! And so here you are\u2014I mean, your book, <em>Saints and Scoundrels<\/em>\u2014there's scoundrels everywhere. Why is Matthew telling us this? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy: <\/strong>I think there's three things about that genealogy. I think, first of all, if you just look at the form and shape of it, it's organized according to anticipating the king, the king ruling over Israel; and then after exile, and there's no king. He's saying <em>something<\/em> about the Kingship of Jesus; and of course, we know that's what Matthew wants to do in his Gospel.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut then getting back to the family, I think one thing: all of these women, except for Mary, are Gentiles. Well, that would be shocking to this first generation of Jews, who would think that God was <em>all<\/em> about the Jews. Here's Matthew, and in a sense, he's \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tsaying to these proud Jewish people: \u201cGod has <em>always<\/em> been about having a people from every tribe, tongue, and nation. And He's been bringing them into His family\/making them a part of His family since the very beginning of His family.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> So I think that's one thing he's doing. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>That's huge.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> But I think it's also very significant\u2014I guess, when I present this to people, I want to look people in the eyes\u2014and for me, most often, it's women that I am speaking to. You know, you can be in gathering with a group of women, and everybody looks really good; but we know that, no matter what group you're in, there are people who walk in and they have some secrets; and they have some sexual shame in their past. There's a part of them that wonders if they could ever, <em>really<\/em>, be a part of God's family, or if they have gone too far\/if they've done something <em>too<\/em> shameful. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think what we have, when we look at this genealogy from Matthew\u2014we can say: \u201cLet's see: \u2018Do you have some incest in your family?\u2019\u2014well, you can find a home here,\u201d \u201c\u2018Have you experienced an unwanted pregnancy?\u2019\u2014welcome to the family.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy: <\/strong>There is <em>no<\/em> sin that can keep you from becoming a part of the family of <em>Jesus<\/em>!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>That's also true for men; it isn't just women that have that in the lineage. It's like men walk in those rooms, like you're talking about, with the same shame\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Absolutely. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u2014thinking, \u201cI'm too far\u2026\u201d\u2014and then you look at who's in that line; and you're like, \u201cWhoa!\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> You've got Abraham in that list\u2014you know, how he lies about his wife and jeopardizes her.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014several times. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy: <\/strong>David, Judah\u2014I mean, they're all there\u2014it give us hope; doesn't it?\u2014that maybe we could fit into His family. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I wrote a newsletter for our church recently. I said, \u201cWe, as Christians, should be very comfortable wearing masks; because most of us have been doing it for years.\u201d [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>That's true!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I just talked about the fact that the whole idea of mask-wearing\u2014there's a word for it in the Bible\u2014it's the word, \u201chypocrite.\u201d It's putting on a mask so that people don't \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tsee the real <em>you<\/em>. I said, \u201cI understand why there are times we don't want people to see the real us, because we do have this shame. But the good news of the gospel is our shame has been removed; someone else has <em>borne<\/em> our shame for us.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe problem comes\u2014not with: \u201cWill God accept me?\u201d\u2014the problem is: \u201cIf I reveal who I really am\u201d\/\u201cIf people knew this about my family tree, how are the other sinners\/the other scoundrels that I'm having fellowship with, how are they going to react to me?\u201d That's, I think, the challenge why people <em>resist<\/em> being transparent about the reality of the dysfunction of their own families.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy: <\/strong>Absolutely. Isn't it good news for us to know that Jesus welcomes into His family\u2014people, who don't come from the\/and I'm using air quotes: the \u201cright\u201d family\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> \u2014you see that here\u2014and people, who have less than perfect records, which is all of us! He welcomes us in to call us: \u201cbrother\u201d\/\u201csister.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And good for us to know that the person you look at and go, \u201cOh, that's a part of their background?\u201d\u2014well, we probably don't have to dig too far in <em>yours<\/em> before we're going to find some scandals and some messes. We're not as clean as we think we are.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>And what would the church be?\u2014if it was a no-mask\u2014and I know I'm not talking COVID, because we should be wearing masks\u2014but you know, if we could be real and honest, and bring our shame to the cross in a community that everybody\u2019s done that. We could look at each other with love, even though there's sin and guilt. It's in the Bible, and it's in us; and it's been paid for.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy: <\/strong>You know, unfortunately, we can tend to be stingy with extending grace to others. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Why?\u2014do you think?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy: <\/strong>I think some of that's pride. We want to think we're more <em>worthy<\/em> of being included in Jesus' family, maybe, than someone else; or we're the more natural choice. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat I've found, over and over again, as I was scouring the Gospels for these stories of the scoundrels and saints that are part of the story of Jesus\u2014the most significant thing I came away with was the generosity and the open-handedness of the grace of Jesus toward the <em>worst<\/em> of sinners. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat good news we have to share with the world. You know, maybe the world sees the church primarily as a finger pointed out at them\u2014you know, wanting to point out their sin or blame\u2014but boy, what I see in the picture of the Gospels is this open-handed generosity of Jesus, with grace, towards sinners. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Our friend, Ron Deal, has noticed that the blended family dynamic is present in Jesus' family tree as well. And of course, Ron's ministry is to blended families\u2014he just wants to give encouragement to those, who are in blended families, and trying to make beauty from the ashes, whatever those ashes are that have brought them to their blended family. Jesus knows what you're dealing with because that's a part of His background and His lineage as well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tTalk about the nuclear family\u2014Jesus' mother, His father, His siblings\u2014I've always wondered, \u201cWouldn't it have been the <em>worst<\/em> to be Jesus' brother? And have His mother always saying, \u2018Why can't you be more like Jesus?\u2019\u201d [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy: <\/strong>Exactly.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>And when the brother says, \u201cWhy do You always have to seem so perfect?\u201d And Jesus could say, \u201cBecause I am.\u201d [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> Let me talk to parents first, and then we'll talk siblings. When we look at Joseph and Mary, one thing that strikes me is that the first thing we're told about both of them is\u2014Joseph in a dream and an angel speaking to him, and an angel coming to Mary\u2014t's clear, when we read Mary's song\/her Magnificat, that she has some understanding of who this child is going to be. If you examine her song, she's praising God for proving true to His promise to Abraham\/His promise to ancestors; so there's a sense in which she recognizes who this child is\u2014that this is the child, who's been promised ever since Genesis 3:15\/that there was going to be an offspring of the woman, who would crush the head of the serpent\u2014so there's a sense in which she understands that. Joseph seems to understand that\u2014the fact that he listens to the angel and takes Mary as his wife\u2014and he's told this is Immanuel\/\u201dGod with us.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut then we read the story of when Jesus is 12 years old, and they go to Jerusalem. Jesus gets left behind at the temple; they come back and they're saying, \u201cWhat are you doing?\u201d And Jesus' answer is: \u201cDon't you know that I must be in My Father's house?\u201d I guess what I saw about Joseph and Mary is there's a sense in which they understood who Jesus was; but then there's this gap, as well\u2014a lack of <em>full<\/em> and complete understanding.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI found hope in that, too; because all of us\u2014we have some understanding, perhaps, of who Jesus is\u2014but maybe there are still some gaps. That's really good news; because what it says is\u2014and I just want to say this to anyone who, maybe you've been exploring a little bit about who Jesus is, but you think, \u201cI don't have Him figured out yet; so I can't be ready to take hold of Him by faith,\u201d or \u201cI can't get in because I don't <em>know<\/em> enough\/I don't understand enough,\u201d\u2014<em>not at all<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> Jesus welcomes into His family people who understand some about Him, but don't yet understand Him fully.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>The people closest to Him, who should have known the most about Him, didn't understand.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy: <\/strong>And yet, they were part of His family. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So He did have brothers and sisters.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> He did; we don't know a lot about them. The brother's names are listed. And it says that He had sisters. What we know about them\/what's revealed <em>most<\/em> of all is\u2014we read this little phrase\u2014and honestly, when I read it, it makes me terribly sad\u2014because it says about His brothers: \u201cThey didn't believe in Him.\u201d I'm with you: \u201cWhat was it like to grow up with a sibling, who <em>never<\/em> talked back to mom and dad?\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy: <\/strong>\u2014\u201cand <em>always<\/em> responded in love.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere's a part of me that I do have that thought of like\u2014any of us, who had a sibling, and like if their good behavior is making you look worse, that's <em>annoying<\/em>\u2014but how could you miss that He <em>always<\/em> loved you perfectly?\u2014you know, that He was always selfless, that He always spoke the best of people. I mean, it's hard for me to imagine how they didn't see something dramatically different in Him and that that would cause them to believe in Him; but they didn't. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn fact, you know, when He comes home to Nazareth\u2014and He opens up the scroll in the synagogue, and basically is claiming to be the Messiah that Isaiah had written about\u2014and everybody wants to throw Jesus off a cliff\u2014they want to put Him away\/\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> \u2014you know, carry Him off to the crazy bin. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, it's interesting\u2014in the Gospel of John, it tells us, at one point, that they're kind of pushing Jesus out the door to go to Jerusalem for the feast; because they say, \u201cYou can do your miracles there, because there's going to be lots of people there.\u201d That's kind of curious; it's like they think, \u201cWe don't believe in You or anything; but if we can maybe ride on your coattails to some greatness\/if You're going to do these miracles, let's go do them where lots of people can see them.\u201d And so, they kind of pushed Jesus out the door to do that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut then, this <em>amazing<\/em> thing happens. It's not stated clearly\u2014but we read in Acts and then later in 1 Corinthians\u2014it says that James is one of those who saw Him after the resurrection. It doesn't tell, right there, that it's talking about Jesus' brother; but we discover that <em>later<\/em>. How great is it that Jesus would reveal Himself\u2014the risen resurrected Jesus\u2014would reveal Himself to His brother, James? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd then, of course, we get to this book of the Bible, written by James, followed by a book of the Bible written by Jude\u2014these two half-siblings [of Jesus]\u2014and what really fascinates me, when I get to those books\u2014now, if I'd been in that family, and I was going to write a book, I would start it: \u201cI, Nancy, sister of Jesus\u201d; because I want to assert my credibility out there; right? No\u2014not James and not Jude\u2014they begin: \u201cJames, servant of the Lord Jesus Christ\u201d; and Jude does the same thing. Their credibility is <em>not<\/em> built on being a sibling to Him, but having Him as their <em>Savior<\/em> and being a <em>servant<\/em> to Him. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>That's<\/em> really encouraging to me for a number of things. I think it should be encouragement to <em>everyone<\/em> who reads it. I mean, don't all of us have someone in our family, who has not yet taken hold of Jesus Christ by faith?\u2014that they would fall into that line if they did not believe. Maybe we're thinking: \u201cYou know what? If I were a better example\u2026\u201d\/\u201cIf I were a better witness...\u201d\/\u201cIf I knew how to explain things better\u2026then that family member would come to Christ.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think the <em>good<\/em> news in seeing these siblings of Jesus is to recognize: \u201cIt's <em>not<\/em> too late!\u201d And that to come to believe late is <em>possible<\/em>\u2014a better-late-than-never believer. It gives us a sense of hope that maybe, that person has not yet believed, but God is <em>not<\/em> done; and that He can reveal Himself to the most hardened, cynical family member you have in a way that would overcome doubts and overcome everything\u2014overcome their passionate disregard for Jesus\u2014so that they become a passionate servant of Jesus\/a passionate sharer of Jesus. That's what happened in Jesus' family, and I think that gives us hope for our own families. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I can't imagine, first of all, I think we all have family members that we may be embarrassed about. I'm thinking these brothers and sisters could have embarrassed\u2014like, \u201cOh, this is the <em>crazy<\/em> brother.\u201d And then to think of the <em>shame<\/em> that they would carry, and the grace of Jesus visiting them <em>after<\/em>\u2014James\u2014<em>after<\/em> His resurrection. Can you imagine having the thought: \u201cI grew up with Him. I saw Him\u201d?\u2014and he probably reflected back on: \u201cNow, it all makes sense.\u201d But the shame and the grace\u2014that combination would be hard. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI love their humbleness of these brothers, talking about that; because I think we all have that. And even when you say, \u201cscoundrels,\u201d have you experienced that in your own life?\u2014of people rejecting Jesus in your family members?\u2014or even thinking it's silly what you're doing? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy: <\/strong>I certainly have family members that I think have not gone from spiritual death to spiritual life; and so, in this, I find hope. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>If Jesus' personal model and His own speaking was not sufficient for His brothers and sisters to go, \u201cClearly, You are the Son of God,\u201d\u2014then our model and our speaking\u2014we shouldn't expect that it will be sufficient. To your point\u2014it is the work of God in somebody's life, which means we still speak and we still model; but we recognize that it's up to God to do the work in someone's life. That's why we pray; that's why we trust in Him.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI keep thinking that maybe one of the reasons the brothers and sisters kind of didn't want anything to do with Jesus is because there are some people I've been around, who are so godly, that I don't want anything to do with them; because it shows up my own shame.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Are you talking about Dave and me? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>That\u2019s what I meant; yes! [Laughter] You've been around people, where it's like\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cI can't be around him, because it just reminds me of how far away from God I am.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Nancy started here\u2014I think the beauty of the entire story is the grace that we see Jesus live and then model for us. There's scoundrels all around us\u2014we're scoundrels\u2014and yet, He never let that stop the grace of\u2014right?\u2014I mean, that's\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy:<\/strong> \u201cWhile we were yet enemies\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Right; right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Nancy: \u201c<\/strong>Christ died for us.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; you've written about, not only about Jesus' family tree, but other saints and scoundrels in the Bible in your book. You've also done a video series on this book\u2014a lot of people watching this, either on their own, or in a small group. In COVID days, this is a great way to virtually connect around a Bible study.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you go to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com, there's information about Nancy's book, \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>Saints and Scoundrels in the Story of Jesus.<\/em> You can order the book from us, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to order. There's also a link on our website to Nancy's website if you want to find out more about the video series. Again, our website is FamilyLifeToday.com; you can order Nancy Guthrie\u2019s book, <em>Saints and Scoundrels in the Story of Jesus<\/em> from us. Or you can order by calling 1-800-358-6329\u2014that's 1-800-\u201dF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tEverything we do here, at FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, is anchored in what we've talked about today. It's anchored in the truth of God's Word\u2014going deep into what the Scriptures teach us about how we're to live with one another, how we're to love one another in our marriage\/our family.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou stop and think about it\u2014Jesus said that the great commandment is to love God first and then the second is like it\u2014love your neighbor. And the neighbors we're with most often are the ones who share an address with us: our spouse\/our kids\u2014our immediate family. We need to make sure we're doing a good job of loving one another <em>well<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>is here to provide you with practical biblical help and hope, encouragement, coaching\u2014all designed to effectively develop godly marriages and families. We could not do what we do if it were not for listeners, like you, who say, \u201cThis is important for me; it's important in our community\/in our world. I want to invest in this ministry. I want to see FamilyLife reach more people, more often, with this kind of practical biblical help and hope.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou make this happen when you donate. I want to thank those of you who donate regularly\u2014our monthly Legacy Partners\u2014and those of you who occasionally make a donation. If you're a longtime listener, and you've never donated or it's been a while, why not donate today? Go to FamilyLifeToday.com and make an investment in the lives of hundreds of thousands of people, who are impacted by this ministry everyday. Donate online or call to donate: 1-800-FL-TODAY. Again, the website: FamilyLifeToday.com; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to invest in the work of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thank you, in advance, for partnering with us; we appreciate you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe hope you have a great weekend\u2014hope you and your family are, in some way, able to gather together with your local church for worship. And we hope you can join us back on Monday when we're going to talk about how we get over ourselves\u2014how we get past the focus and obsession on what's going on with us\u2014and start to be a little more other-centered. Jen Oshman's going to be here to help us with that, and I hope you can be here as well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I'm Bob Lepine. See you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2020 FamilyLife. 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