{"id":306443,"date":"2020-09-30T07:00:04","date_gmt":"2020-09-30T11:00:04","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/redefining-motherhood\/"},"modified":"2020-09-30T07:00:04","modified_gmt":"2020-09-30T11:00:04","slug":"redefining-motherhood","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/redefining-motherhood\/","title":{"rendered":"Redefining Motherhood"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>When infertility closed the door, Heather DeJesus Yates still trusted God with her dreams. Through a little plant, she realized that she could still live a fruitful life investing in the next generation.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2020-09-30.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:30:25","filesize":"27.86M","filesize_raw":"29210501","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2818,2860],"tags":[4646],"podcast_series":[8395],"cwp_profile":[9658],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-306443","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-adoption-and-orphans","category-hardship-and-suffering","tag-infertility","podcast_series-a-mother-of-thousands","cwp_profile-heather-dejesus-yates","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/306443\/redefining-motherhood","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/306443\/redefining-motherhood","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"73Fu1FY5PO\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/redefining-motherhood\/\">Redefining Motherhood<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/redefining-motherhood\/embed\/#?secret=73Fu1FY5PO\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Redefining Motherhood&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"73Fu1FY5PO\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg",508,508,false]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"kfairris@familylife.com","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/kfairrisfamilylife-com\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"When infertility closed the door, Heather DeJesus Yates still trusted God with her dreams. Through a little plant, she realized that she could still live a fruitful life investing in the next generation.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2020-09-30.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> The Bible says that sorrow may last for a night, but joy comes in the morning. In her journey of infertility and adoption, Heather DeJesus Yates has realized just how true that is. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heather:<\/strong> Had I not wept bitterly, had I not poured out my anger, and my discontentment and my mistrust of God, had I not buckled over in my driveway and yelled like David and poured out the honest places of grief and discouragement with Him, and sat in the company with other women, who could say, \u201cYes, this is hard; this is heavy; this is really heavy,\u201d\u2014had I not had that experience, I would not be on this side with laughter and joy. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Wednesday, September 30<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I\u2019m Bob Lepine. You can find us online at FamilyLifeToday.com. We\u2019ll hear today from Heather DeJesus Yates about her vision for her life and the bigger vision God had for her. Stay with us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. There is a word that is\u2014we find it in the Bible\u2014and it\u2019s a word that we just don\u2019t use very much because I think it\u2019s such a hard, harsh, ugly-sounding word\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Oh, boy. This sounds like the <em>fun<\/em> broadcast, Bob. [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> It\u2019s in the theme of what we\u2019re talking about this week. It\u2019s this word, \u201cbarren\/barrenness\u201d; I mean, just saying the word, it\u2019s almost like you don\u2019t want to say it out loud because the idea carries with it such an emptiness, a loss of hope, an ugliness. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHow can we serve the God, who is the God over all things, and how can barrenness be a part of our experience or a part of our existence? Yet, for a lot of families\/for a lot of husbands and wives, who have longed to have children, barrenness has been a part of their story. They\u2019ve had to enter into that and go, \u201cHow do I meet God in this place?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; I think one of the worst things about that word is\u2014it\u2019s out of your hands. You can\u2019t just like, \u201cOh, I\u2019m going to make myself\u201d\u2014what\u2019s the word?\u2014\u201cun-barren.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You can\u2019t fix it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You can\u2019t. Barren is like\u2014it\u2019s out of your hands, and you have to struggle through. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heather:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We\u2019ve got Heather DeJesus Yates joining us this week to talk about all of this. Heather, welcome back to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heather:<\/strong> Thank you very much. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Heather is a\u2014she is a mother; she is a wife. She has written a book called <em>A Mother of Thousands<\/em>. Tell our listeners about the title of that book. There\u2019s a horticultural connection there; right? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heather:<\/strong> Yes; the irony\u2014because I kill plants like it\u2019s my <em>job<\/em>. [Laughter] Well, when we were going through infertility, adoption, fostering, we had hit a point in our journey, where we\u2019d even had some failed adoptions. We were expecting twin boys for a short time, and then that kind of fell through. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe left, actually, ironically, to go to Athens, Georgia, where my brother and his wife live. They were expecting a baby. They were actually expecting a baby the <em>very<\/em> night we were supposed to go pick up the twin boys, and we were waiting for the call. We got our call, and it went a different direction. We got our call from my sister-in-law, and she had the baby. Those are\u2014those are always wonderful, little gut checks that Hebrews 12:15, \u201cBe careful that no bitter root forms in there.\u201d That\u2019s such a danger, I think, in this journey for women\u2014is to have those bitter roots form. I felt like God gave us that trip, immediately, to go to Athens to hold that baby\/to keep no bitter root from forming in my heart. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe went down there; and prayed the whole way down there, and got there and got to love on my new little niece, got to play with my other niece\u2014and see my little girl toddle around with her cousin\u2014had a busy, hectic, crazy full house of fun for the whole day. Then my husband and I just collapsed in the bed in the guest room. As I was lying there, I just had this peace wash over me. It wasn\u2019t just this exhaustion from being with a newborn\u2014thinking, \u201cPhew; yes, we don\u2019t want another baby; we\u2019re done,\u201d\u2014it wasn\u2019t that at all; because there was so much joy, and there was so much sweetness. It wasn\u2019t\u2014you know?\u2014\u201cNow, I really know we want\/I want to pursue again, because I want another newborn feel.\u201d It wasn\u2019t any of <em>that<\/em>; it was this soul calm. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI leaned over to my husband, and I said, \u201cYou know what? I think I\u2019m <em>good<\/em>.\u201d He just took this <em>deep<\/em> breath; and his chest just swelled up and came back down, and he said, \u201cGood.\u201d It was just this opportunity for both of us to just rest in where we were and not pursue any more and just be a family and enjoy where we were. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe went to sleep that night and I woke up, one eye at a time, thinking, \u201cAm I grieving? Am I grieving that we just aren\u2019t going to pursue any more children? Is this the end of something?\u201d I was okay; I didn\u2019t feel a lot of heavy emotion. He had already woken up; so I got out of the bed, and I clambered out to the kitchen. I was getting my coffee, and my brother is going on and on about these plants that he bought his wife. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe ends with this one sitting on this counter; he said, \u201cNow, this is one of my favorites.\u201d He said, \u201cLook at the ends of it.\u201d It looked kind of like\u2014it is a cactus-like succulent. He said, \u201cOn all the edges of these branches, wherever this plant reaches out, these tiny, little baby plantlets form. The nursery guy said, \u2018Be careful where you plant her because she will take over the yard. All these baby plantlets get heavy, and they drop to the ground, and they reproduce the same kind of plant.\u2019\u201d He said, \u201cThe cool thing is\u2014she doesn\u2019t bear seed of her own.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>Immediately<\/em>, I felt like the Holy Spirit just woke me up to this vision and this <em>joy<\/em>; because I thought [emotion in voice], \u201cThat plant is a picture for me of the hope that I have that, even though I bear no seed of my own; that if you were to plant me, as God has planted me in His kingdom, and I root deep in who I am in Him, He will bear life. It can be revolutionary. We can <em>change<\/em> the landscape by just being faithful with God and Him planting us.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs <em>we<\/em> plant, by faith, into the hearts and the soils of those around us\u2014and we root deep with them in God\u2019s Word\/in His presence with us\u2014He will bear life. It can be <em>way<\/em> beyond anything that I could have <em>ever<\/em> birthed biologically. That plant was called the Mother of Thousands. To have that picture, coming back from that vacation\/from that trip of seeing that baby, God was <em>faithful<\/em> to us to guard against bitterness and to guard against self-pity\u2014and to go into that deep place of: \u201cPoor us that God would hold out from us but be good to other people,\u201d\u2014I think He gave it as a gift to protect us from that danger. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> What I hear you expressing here is that biological birth motherhood is one expression of the life-giving that God calls a woman to\u2014it\u2019s a profound and powerful expression; maybe, the <em>dominant<\/em> expression of that\u2014but it\u2019s not the <em>exclusive<\/em> expression of that. Every woman is called to be a nurturer, a life-giver, a care-er of souls. That, for most wives, is going to look like being a biological mom; but for every wife\u2014whether you\u2019re a biological mom or not\u2014there is a broader expression of what that means and how you can live that out. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heather:<\/strong> Right. I go so far as to say a mother\u2014because you look at a definition of what it means to be a mother, and it\u2019s: \u201cto birth, to raise up, to care affectionately, to be a woman of authority.\u201d There is this place for every woman, in the kingdom of God, to step in and say, \u201cIn Christ, I have life; and it is unstoppable life. He has called me to bear fruit and multiply and fill the earth. This is something that we\u2019ve been made to do.\u201d It\u2019s not unique to women; it is a calling to the believer. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf we have conceived of faith, and the gospel is implanted within us, we have the ability to reproduce faith. The church is multiplying because of the unstoppable nature of the gospel of Jesus Christ. This is something that I would have <em>missed<\/em>, I think, had God not closed my womb. I think I would have <em>missed<\/em> the bigger story and the bigger opportunity here. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m <em>not<\/em> diminishing biological motherhood; I\u2019m not. Would I rejoice if I found out we were expecting?\u2014of course!\u2014and not because \u201cOh, finally, I can be <em>content<\/em>.\u201d No; I am fully content right now. You can have peace; you can be content, even when your world is <em>not<\/em> going the way you wanted it\/even when things don\u2019t look like the way <em>you<\/em> had scripted for yourself. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> It\u2019s interesting, too, Heather, as I hear you speak, Jesus and God are all over your language. He\u2019s a part of you; He\u2019s oozing out of everything in you; He is your life. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heather:<\/strong> He is my life. I became a Christian kind of in a bit of a radical situation. I was ten years old, almost eleven. I had been exposed to quite a few destructive things in my early childhood\u2014very difficult, painful situations for anyone, especially for a child. When I was ten or eleven years old\/in that area, my mom dropped me off at our church. I wasn\u2019t used to being around my peers; I was always wanting to be around my grandparents or older people, so I was very uncomfortable in this space. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThankfully, the lights were down. I was just sitting on the edge; I already had my exit plan\u2014I would go sit in the stall in the bathroom. By that age, I had already been exposed to pornography, and sexual assault, and other things; so I felt about myself, generally, that I was dirty. Church\u2014I didn\u2019t understand a lot of it; I had a lot of questions about it. The whole process of salvation, and justification, and sanctification\u2014it all was just very confusing to me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut this youth pastor\u2014that night, he was sharing the gospel. At the end, he looked in the audience; and he said, \u201cIf any of you out there feel dirty tonight, Jesus can make you clean.\u201d That was the only thing I understood. I understood dirty and clean, and I had <em>tried<\/em> to make myself clean in all my good works, and being a good kid, and good student, and doing everything right. Nothing was taking away that sense of dirty in the middle of my being. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen the lights went up, I ran like a four-legged girl down to the front of the altar to pray and find out, \u201cHow can this Jesus make me clean?\u201d I found out that it was His blood and His sacrifice on a cross for me\u2014that He conquered sin and death, He died and He rose again from the grave, and that resurrection made <em>all<\/em> the difference\u2014that I was clean because He resurrected. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn my faith journey, I <em>knew<\/em> this was a <em>major<\/em> rescue; I had no business being in this kingdom\/in this family. He has adopted me in the <em>biggest<\/em> way, and my life has really been one big thank-you card back to Him for that rescue. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yet, you\u2019ve had broken dreams. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heather:<\/strong> Yes! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And I think <em>everyone<\/em> has broken dreams. I know, when I gave my life to Jesus, I thought, \u201cHe\u2019s going to make my life <em>amazing<\/em>, and I\u2019m going to marry someone <em>rich<\/em>. I\u2019m going to have this lifestyle.\u201d Then it didn\u2019t turn out like that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heather:<\/strong> Right; I have another book idea. The title is: <em>God Has a Great Plan for Your Life<\/em>; and the artwork is of Stephen, the martyr, being stoned to death. [Laughter] I don\u2019t know if my publisher is going to go for it; I don\u2019t think it\u2019s going to sell well, <em>but<\/em> that is something that is really hard to grasp, as a believer. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heather:<\/strong> But I <em>thought<\/em> that, when God\u2019s got a great plan for my life\u2014Jeremiah 29:11\u2014that meant these things were going to go the way [I desired]. Here I was\u2014a Christian woman\u2014I was like: \u201cI\u2019ve done all the right things. We\u2019ve waited for our spouses. We\u2019ve\u201d\u2014you know, check the boxes\u2014\u201cWe\u2019ve worked in ministry,\u201d \u201cWe\u2019ve tithed all of our life,\u201d \u201cWe go to <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup>. [Laughter] Surely, we should have a baby; this baby will be <em>amazing<\/em>. I\u2019ll leave it at the temple like Hannah did.\u201d So, yes; we thought, \u201cNow, isn\u2019t this how God works?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut He\u2019s not a vending machine. He started out with a plan; He\u2019s going to be faithful to the plan. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And it is <em>so much better<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heather:<\/strong> It\u2019s better. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I had <em>no<\/em> idea that to become a pastor\u2019s wife, to live in Detroit\u2014if God would have painted that out to me, I would have thought\u2014\u201cThat sounds <em>terrible<\/em>.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heather:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yet, it\u2019s been the most\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And you just looked at me\u2014[Laughter]\u2014a <em>bald<\/em> pastor. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> It has been the most <em>amazing<\/em> ride that I could ever imagine and hope for because, when we <em>follow<\/em> Him, we don\u2019t know what\u2019s around the next corner; but when we keep our eyes on Him, it becomes the most joy-filled journey. <em>That<\/em> impacts other people. When we can allow our pain to help other people get through their own pain, there is real meaning and purpose in that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heather:<\/strong> Yes; I will say that there was most certainly, in the middle of the journey of infertility, there was no joy. That was not a place of joy. There was no singing of songs\u2014\u201cGod\u2019s plan for me is <em>better<\/em> than my plan for me,\u201d\u2014no; I was not seeing that <em>at<\/em> <em>all<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I don\u2019t think any of us see it in the midst of it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heather:<\/strong> No; I think you make such a good point\u2014is that this is a journey. A lot of the times, it is through the pain, when we <em>don\u2019t<\/em> see God with us and being good to us, that we\u2019re <em>tested<\/em> in that place to trust Him in the midst of the suffering\/with us in the suffering. \u201cIn the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, [from Psalm 23]\u201d\u2014why?\u2014\u201cbecause You are with me. Your rod and your staff\u2014they are going to comfort me.\u201d It is a one-step-at-a-time comfort. It is not: \u201cOh, I\u2019ve got all this great theology,\u201d and \u201cI\u2019ve got all this faith in God. He\u2019s going to gloriously make this into such a beautiful redemption story.\u201d Well, <em>yes<\/em>, because He is faithful; but you don\u2019t get there very quickly. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou need to be honest with where you are at, along the way, in order to have this sincere place of rejoicing and contentment; because had I not wept bitterly, had I not poured out my anger and my discontentment and my mistrust of God, had I not buckled over in my driveway and yelled like David and poured out the honest places of grief and discouragement with Him, and sat in the company of other women, who could say, \u201cYes; this is hard. This is hard; this is heavy; this is really heavy,\u201d\u2014had I not had that experience\u2014I would not be on this side with laughter and joy. I would still be eating all the French fries. [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s a Roman\u2019s road. You\u2019ve got to go through the <em>pain<\/em> of the curse before you can come into the redemption joy of the cross. That is true from the beginning, when God set everything up [in Eden], and we had this <em>beautiful<\/em> experience with God. We had all this true nature of God\u2014goodness, just absolutely abundance, and beauty\u2014\u201cMan, this is what I want; this is the most <em>amazing<\/em> life.\u201d It still wasn\u2019t enough; and bringing in the curse on the earth, and us moving through the curse, and having to <em>wait<\/em> and <em>wait<\/em> and <em>wait<\/em> for the joy of redemption\u2014I really feel like infertility is that picture. It is that picture of: \u201cI <em>feel<\/em> the Garden; I <em>feel<\/em> the curse.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBarrenness was associated with curse; and when you are in that place, and you cannot bear life, and you feel that longing within you\u2014the Old Testament hints at the things that are never satisfied; one of them is a barren womb\u2014there is something in us that wants to create life. We are made in the image of a <em>Creator<\/em>, who creates life; and that is written on our very nature to want to create life. So when you <em>feel<\/em> your nature hit the curse, and you feel that inability to create life in your body, you have to walk through that curse and see what God did to it; He redeemed it with a cross. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s <em>that<\/em> journey, for me, that I can\u2019t imagine going through infertility without the hope of the cross\/without resurrection\u2014without that other symbol that you\u2019re expecting\/that symbol of life that He showed me. Yes; you get the positive sign on a pregnancy test, but it\u2019s the same sign that gives me hope that I have life within me\u2014it\u2019s the cross. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Do you ever find yourself go back? I mean, you\u2019ve\u2014you\u2019re at a place now, sounds like, and you wrote about\u2014you\u2019ve got perspective; you\u2019ve been through that journey. Seems like a valley, and you\u2019re sort of out of it. Do you ever find yourself lying in bed at night, or in a quiet moment of regret, or going back to the pit?\u2014just wondering, \u201cIf that ever happens\u201d\u2014and if your mind starts to go there\u2014\u201cwhat do you do?\u201d I\u2019m thinking a lot of people might <em>struggle<\/em>: \u201cI\u2019m over here now, but\u2026\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heather:<\/strong> Well, I look down at my hand; I still have skin, so I do\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heather:<\/strong> \u2014I still have struggles, and I\u2019ll still go back there. I think I always will. Again, the barren womb will always long\/it will always cry out. There are times\u2014we have an adoption story\u2014and that means there are complex dynamics in our story that are permanent. They are just etched now into our story, and God says it\u2019s good. Sometimes, I just have to trust Him\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heather:<\/strong> \u2014that that is good; because sometimes, it doesn\u2019t <em>feel<\/em> good. It\u2019s a reminder to me, \u201cOh, yes, I didn\u2019t give birth to my little girl.\u201d It takes me back to some of that pain of sorrow\/of really saying, \u201cGod, sometimes, I wish I could just shove her in my belly and I do this over, and take some vectors out of our story.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI come back with those open hands again and surrender: \u201cThat when you say You work all things together for good, You work all kinds of not-good things that don\u2019t taste or feel very good on their own, and you will move them in some mysterious way together to where, all together, they will work out to be this <em>good<\/em> thing\u2014good for me, good you, good for the body, good for the bigger story that You\u2019re telling.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I know that, when I saw your book title, I had <em>no<\/em> idea about this plant\u2014because I don\u2019t know anything about plants\u2014but I had this thought, and then as I read to the end, where you talk about our destiny, I\u2019m like, \u201cOh, there it is\u201d; because when I saw <em>Mother of Thousands<\/em>, I thought, \u201cI\u2019m actually called to be a father of thousands,\u201d\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heather:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014and \u201cWe\u2019re all called, whether we have biological children or not. We can, as you said, \u2018Plant small, root deep, bear life\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heather:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014\u201c\u2019because of Christ in us.\u2019\u201d What a <em>beautiful<\/em> picture of the destiny, and the call, and the mission of every Christ-follower. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heather:<\/strong> Well, you look at Sarah and Abraham\u2019s story. I identify so well with her\u2014and her grief, and her frustration, and the tension it created in her marriage\u2014and I put in the book just some flesh around Sarah. I can\u2019t wait to sit with her and say, \u201cTell me the truth; what happened?\u201d When I look at her story, and I see what God did, God gave them a promise of destiny by faith. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHis descendants\u2014it wasn\u2019t so much about their biology\u2014it is about the <em>faith<\/em>. They were going to be a mother and father of the <em>faith<\/em>\u2014the kingdom of God was going to be built by <em>faith<\/em>; I mean, this was a game-changer. This was a huge paradigm shift. The Hebrews\u2014they were all about lineage and genetics. The kingdom of heaven\u2014genetics are just not going to be a big deal, you know, when we move into that new season of life. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat was a game-changer for me when I realized the <em>big<\/em> story that God was wanting to tell was one of faith\u2014that they were going to become father of many nations\/mother of thousands\u2014that this was going to be about faith. If I keep my head buried in this little story, and I stay consumed in my own grief and on my own pain, I may <em>miss<\/em> the most <em>amazing<\/em> story that God could ever tell in my life; so I don\u2019t want to do that. \u201cLord, You write the story; You write the script. I\u2019ll go where You go. You promise to never leave me no matter where we go.\u201d That, ultimately, is what I want; I want to stay connected to Him. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I love your subtitle, <em>From Barren to Revolutionary<\/em>; because that resonates with my heart: \u201cI want to change the world.\u201d I think you <em>are<\/em> revolutionary. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heather:<\/strong> Well, we\u2019re redefining motherhood, one soul-talk shared with another teenage girl or woman, across the table, at a time. I even created a little t-shirt for our book launch. It defines motherhood as \u201cThe state of being a woman, who shows up to the next generation, trusting God to build His family through her.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Will you pray for other women? We need your prayer. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heather:<\/strong> \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFather, God, we thank You that we have direct access to talk to You about all the things of our hearts, thanks to Your Son Jesus\u2019s sacrifice on the cross for us. Father, we also thank You that we don\u2019t call You adoptive Father. We just call You, \u201cDaddy,\u201d because there is no distinguishing between us and Your Son Jesus. We are co-heirs to You; we are all Your children now. You have paid for us; You have bought us; and You chose us because it was Your delight to choose us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo Father, in this secure place as Your children, we ask for You to bless the wombs of Your children, and not just the physical ones. Father, we pray that You would open the eyes of the blind to see the stories that You are telling in these marriages\u2014that, Father, where they are struggling in these stories of barrenness, of miscarriage, of broken dreams\u2014Father, we pray that You would help them to see Your resurrection. Help them to put their hope in the <em>only<\/em> place that is secure: it\u2019s in Your plan, and Your faithfulness, and Your character as good. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFather, we thank You that the work that You\u2019ve begun in them You are going to <em>finish<\/em> it. Father, if it is Your will for them to bear children, biologically, thank You; thank You that You will see that through. Father, if it\u2019s not, we pray that they would be free from consumption of these small stories and that their eyes would be lifted up to look around to see the world that You\u2019ve given them. Father, we pray that they would be fruitful and multiply\/that they would show up to the next generation, trusting You will build Your family through them. In Jesus\u2019s name we pray. Amen. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Amen. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Amen. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Amen. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Heather, thank you for being on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for being here and sharing with us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heather:<\/strong> Thank you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Let me say to our listeners: \u201cWe would love to send you a copy of Heather\u2019s book. The book is called <em>A Mother of Thousands: From Barren to Revolutionary<\/em>. We\u2019re making it available this week to any of you who can support the work of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. If you have a desire to invest in the marriages and the families of hundreds of thousands of people every day, all around the world, by investing in the work of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, we\u2019d love to have you join the team; and we\u2019d love to bless you with a copy of Heather\u2019s book.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> exists to effectively develop godly marriages and families. We believe godly marriages and families can change the world one home at a time. So we want to encourage to be a part of the team that makes <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> available in your community and online, on our mobile app, through all the channels where <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> can be heard. Help make that happen by making a donation today. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com to donate; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to make a donation, and be sure to ask for your copy of the book, <em>A Mother of Thousands: From Barren to Revolutionary<\/em>, by Heather DeJesus Yates when you make your donation. Thanks, in advance, for joining with us; and we hope you enjoy the book. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe hope you can be with us, again, tomorrow when we\u2019re going to talk about how a wife should respond when her husband just won\u2019t take initiative\/won\u2019t lead when he\u2019s passive. We\u2019ll have that conversation tomorrow. I hope you can join us for that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2020 FamilyLife. 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