{"id":306437,"date":"2020-09-28T07:00:05","date_gmt":"2020-09-28T11:00:05","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/trusting-god-with-your-barrenness\/"},"modified":"2020-09-28T07:00:05","modified_gmt":"2020-09-28T11:00:05","slug":"trusting-god-with-your-barrenness","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/trusting-god-with-your-barrenness\/","title":{"rendered":"Trusting God with Your Barrenness"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Heather DeJesus Yates talks about her longing to have children and the despair she experienced struggling with infertility. Yates reminds us that Jesus offers us empathy for our pain.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2020-09-28.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:29:32","filesize":"27.05M","filesize_raw":"28359880","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2818,2860],"tags":[4646],"podcast_series":[8395],"cwp_profile":[9658],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-306437","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-adoption-and-orphans","category-hardship-and-suffering","tag-infertility","podcast_series-a-mother-of-thousands","cwp_profile-heather-dejesus-yates","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/306437\/trusting-god-with-your-barrenness","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/306437\/trusting-god-with-your-barrenness","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"yWgShRNtW9\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/trusting-god-with-your-barrenness\/\">Trusting God with Your Barrenness<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/trusting-god-with-your-barrenness\/embed\/#?secret=yWgShRNtW9\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Trusting God with Your Barrenness&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"yWgShRNtW9\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg",508,508,false]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"kfairris@familylife.com","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/kfairrisfamilylife-com\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"Heather DeJesus Yates talks about her longing to have children and the despair she experienced struggling with infertility. Yates reminds us that Jesus offers us empathy for our pain.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2020-09-28.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>After months of hoping, praying, trying to become pregnant, Heather DeJesus Yates was sitting with her obstetrician, who told her it was time to see a fertility specialist. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heather:<\/strong> My heart sank; I was just disoriented. I couldn\u2019t figure out: \u201cHow did we get here? How did this happen?\u201d That was the beginning, for us, of this conversation that I had <em>no<\/em> context for. I had <em>never<\/em> considered infertility\u2014not really. I had never imagined the word, \u201cbarren,\u201d in my story. I don\u2019t think many women do sit in the chapter of: \u201cWhat if we do go down this road?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Monday, September 28<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I'm Bob Lepine. You\u2019ll find us online at FamilyLifeToday.com. What does it look like for a husband and wife to begin to imagine a future for themselves, as an infertile couple? We\u2019re going to talk more with Heather DeJesus Yates about that today. Stay with us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. I got married when I was 23; Mary Ann was 25. I don\u2019t think I realized it at the time, but we hadn\u2019t been married long when Mary Ann was ready to be a mama. She was ready for us to get pregnant. We\u2019d been attempting to get pregnant for more than a year, and it had not happened. I think the classical definition of infertility is, if you\u2019re having unprotected relations and you\u2019re not pregnant within a year, that you\u2019re at least momentarily infertile. Whether you\u2019re permanently infertile, nobody knows; you fall into that category of infertility. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI remember being on a trip with her; we were driving up to see my parents from our home in Tulsa to where they lived in Kansas City. This was the first time I was aware of the longing in my wife\u2019s heart. She was crying and mad at God because why would God give her a desire\/a strong desire for a good thing and then withhold it from her? I\u2019m, at this point, 24 years old; I don\u2019t have a good answer to that question.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> What did you feel, Bob? Was that a struggle for <em>you<\/em>?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I was a happy-go-lucky, \u201cIt\u2019ll happen when it happens,\u201d roll with the punches\/whatever kind of guy. I was not feeling it the way she was feeling it. I was a little blindsided by the depth of emotion that she was going through. But I remember it, and remember how profoundly deep this was in her. That\u2019s part of what we\u2019re going to tackle as we dive into this today. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019ve got a friend, who\u2019s joining us to help us navigate this conversation. Heather DeJesus Yates joins us; welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em> \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heather:<\/strong> This is such a privilege. I\u2019m so excited. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We\u2019re thrilled to have you here. You\u2019ve written a book called <em>Mother of Thousands<\/em> that is part memoir, but it\u2019s also a challenge to everyone to recognize that God has more for you than you may have recognized God has for you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heather:<\/strong> Yes; it flows from my personal journey, and the winding road that my husband and I walked through with infertility, and that became a journey through adoption as well as fostering. The awakening that God did in my own soul, and the pivot of my eyes and my vision from the small story that I was tempted to be consumed with\u2014of pregnancy\u2014into the bigger story that He was telling through that shadow\/through what pregnancy points us to, as believers. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Heather, this is a topic, if women haven\u2019t experienced, they know someone who\u2019s gone through this, or who has lost a baby, or who has struggled with infertility. It is gut-wrenching and painful. Walk us through <em>your<\/em> journey and your story. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heather:<\/strong> I was 30 when I met my husband. I\u2019m also a year-and-a-half\/almost two years older than my husband. We met when I was 30\u2014got married, actually\/had just turned 31\u2014I was thinking <em>a lot<\/em> about having a kid. I was looking at a clock and thinking, \u201cWe don\u2019t have a lot of time to wait around and enjoy being married for a whole long time.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBecause we\u2019d been single for so long, and we\u2019d been praying for God to bring us a spouse, and we\u2019d been faithful in that journey\u2014but we were so excited to be married\u2014we knew we wanted to give it some time to be able to be with each other, and enjoy marriage, and let that root solid in our experience before we added children. It wasn\u2019t a huge conversation right when we were married, but it was <em>before<\/em> we got married. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019d worked in adoption law, and I\u2019d, actually, already had some really wonderful experiences with adoption in practice that I knew I wanted to adopt some day. I told my husband, at the time when we were in courtship\/I said, \u201cI\u2019d love to adopt someday, but I\u2019d also love to have biological children as well.\u201d He said, \u201cYes; adoption\u2019s great. That\u2019s fun; that\u2019s fine for someday, but\u2026\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe wasn\u2019t as passionate about it as I was, but we were on the same page; we were on the same page with wanting children. We had actually done the FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> resource, <em>Preparing for Marriage<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup>. That was our premarital counseling tool over 12 years ago. It\u2019s still the best one we\u2019ve ever found. We\u00a0 use it for other couples all the time. That really helped us flesh out what our expectations were around building our family and around having children and adopting. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe were married about a year\/a year-and-a-half. We had told ourselves, \u201cWe can wait maybe a couple of years and then maybe start trying to have a family.\u201d We had waited a year-and-a-half. Ultimately, we trusted God with that\u2014we had prayed, too: \u201cIf we\u2019re missing something, overrule us. We\u2019re not trying to be willful, and rebellious, and self-focused.\u201d We really want what God wants for us, no matter what. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe two-year mark came, and with joy, we both began to move forward into\u00a0 preparing for a family. Like you said, infertility\u2014the traditional definition is the failure to conceive after 12 months of effort. The months went on. We did have a couple times, where we thought we were expecting. We were really excited, and then it just wasn\u2019t the case. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAfter that first year, I went back for my physical\u2014and was hoping that this\u00a0 physical was the one, where we were doing ultrasound\/preparing for a very different conversation\u2014it wasn\u2019t. So when the end of the conversation landed with, \u201cYes, you need to see a specialist; you need to go in and see someone who specializes in fertility,\u201d my heart sank; I just was disoriented. I couldn\u2019t figure out: \u201cHow did we get here? How did this happen?\u201d That was the beginning for us of this conversation that I had <em>no<\/em> context for. I had <em>never<\/em> considered infertility\u2014not really. I had never imagined the word, \u201cbarren,\u201d in my story. I don\u2019t think many women do sit in the chapter of: \u201cWhat if we do go down this road?\u201d I think we don\u2019t put ourselves in stories we don\u2019t want to happen. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Did this recommendation that you move to a specialist\u2014are you still thinking, \u201cWell, okay; they\u2019ll be able to diagnose what\u2019s going on and fix things.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heather:<\/strong> Right; that was certainly my husband\u2019s perspective. He was, \u201cCheck the box\u2014get the number; let\u2019s set the appointment\u2014Let\u2019s do this; what do we need to do?\u201d That was helpful for me to keep it that clean and that clear and not get in the bog of emotion. I was moving around in kind of a shock. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI did; I set up the appointment; we went to the appointment. The staff were wonderful; they were caring people. They sketched out for us what our options were and what those paths could look like. They encouraged us to reach out to some people, who had experienced each of those paths to find out what that was like and put some skin on it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe left, and we made plans to start the IUI journey, which is the intrauterine insemination. It required a little bit of medication; it wasn\u2019t as intensive as IVF as far as medication is concerned. But you don\u2019t know your body\u2014you don\u2019t know how things are going to react\u2014so there was some anxiety around that. That was our first efforts\u2014IUI\u2014and we did two rounds of that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHonestly, I stepped into that, starting to get hopeful again, thinking, \u201cSurely this will work now; surely this is what we needed, and it\u2019ll just be really quick.\u201d I thought it would take the first time, and it didn\u2019t. And then thought, \u201cHe does up to three rounds, so maybe the second round is it.\u201d The second time came; and then I thought, \u201cWell, third one\u2019s the charm! This has got to be it.\u201d Then, he called\/the doctor called and said, \u201cWe\u2019re not going to do that third round, because we\u2019re pretty suspicious you have endometriosis. We recommend you having surgery, because it\u2019s not going to make a difference for you if we keep pursuing this path.\u201d That was another heartbreak.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Where was God in this? What were you feeling about Him?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heather:<\/strong> I certainly wondered; I certainly wondered. I had had a few points in my journey\u2014I shared this in the first book that I wrote that really tells more of my faith journey\u2014I had some crisis of faith moments, where all that I knew of God meant suffering. Then, got to hear His voice in truth and in love, and in stability, and giving me assurances of His presence. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis was one of those moments, where I had to meet Him again. I had to reframe how I was experiencing Him and seeing Him, and align it with what is true about Him, and not let the pain and the suffering shape Him into something <em>less<\/em> than He is.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> What did your prayers sound like?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heather:<\/strong> My prayer continued to be the same. It started in my 20s, when I was single, and I saw my family shrinking from death and divorce. I was working in a law practice and had found out about another loss in my family. I went and sat at a park, and I swung on the swings; and I said, \u201cGod, You know that my longing is for family. You know that my longing is to be married, and have children, and have a big family, where we can grow and pass down stories of Your faithfulness. The dream of being married and having children\u2014it just seems to be getting farther and farther the older that I get.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tA prayer was put into my heart: \u201cPray that I would grow your family in quality and in quantity.\u201d That became my prayer. When we got married, that was our prayer: \u201cGrow us in quality and in quantity.\u201d During this time, I kept bringing that prayer back to Him: \u201cGod, You have been faithful to grow me in quantity with a husband. You\u2019ve been growing us in quality\/growing in our faith in You. But I feel like I need to push further in this prayer.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt was during this infertility journey that I feel like He shifted that prayer; and He said, \u201cThat is My heart: You grow My family in quality and in quantity\u2014this is what <em>I<\/em> want for My family\u2014I want them to grow. You grow My family; I will grow yours.\u201d I didn\u2019t feel like it was a quid pro quo, that He was promising me children; but I did believe that God was giving me a vision for something that was bigger than the story I was wanting Him to sit in with <em>me<\/em>\u2014that I was wanting Him to just give me a baby\u2014and He was wanting to give me more than that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cSo where was God in this?\u201d I felt like He was calling me to trust Him with no answers; trust Him with no baby; trust Him with no solutions as far as I saw them. I didn\u2019t share that with a lot of people, because it felt kind of trite. It felt like, \u201cOh, this is a Jesus answer; but there\u2019s nothing really here about it; she\u2019s denying her pain.\u201d I felt incredible pain; I had lots of grief and lots of sorrow going on that I was getting out with God and with my husband. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI went into surgery and came out of surgery\u2014was back, again\u2014expecting this to fix all of our problems, reproductively. We had hope again that this is going to happen. Right out of the gates again, we thought, \u201cMaybe this is happening.\u201d We had some signs of it; then there weren\u2019t. It was shut down again; we went through the six months with no baby. We came back to the table of: \u201cOkay; now, what?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMy husband and I\u2014again, back to that adoption\/the story before we got married\u2014I <em>knew<\/em> that God had put that desire in my heart. My husband was open to it, but I <em>did not<\/em> want to do anything unless it was a joy overflowing his heart. This wasn\u2019t something I wanted to sell my husband on. This was something I\u2019d seen and heard wisdom enough to know to wait until my husband was 100 percent on board\/excited about it. I didn\u2019t want any resentment to be there, down the road. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDuring that time, we came back to the table to consider IVF. Ironically, within the same month, April of 2013, we had two appointments scheduled. We had one appointment with an adoption agency scheduled to be able to find out: \u201cFor our region, what do next steps look like for us down that road?\u201d We also had an appointment scheduled with the infertility specialist to consider IVF. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe went into the adoption agency meeting feeling pretty confident that this was going to be a very positive experience, and we\u2019ll get a lot of good information. It actually ended up being <em>horrible<\/em>. It was a <em>horrible<\/em> experience\/very hard on our souls to be in that room. A lot of families in there already had biological children. It was a very hard environment to be in, talking so loosely about adding children to your family. Whew! It was just a hard space.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen, finding out statistics, and weights, and all of the hurdles we\u2019d have to clear. It had been a long time since I\u2019d practiced adoption law; a lot of things have changed. Just looking at the road ahead, it felt daunting; and it felt long; and it felt overwhelming\u2014lots of steps along the way\u2014just require a lot of you; just a lot of things to consider. We left there, and we went through a Chick-Fil-A<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> drive through, and I ordered all the French fries\u2014I mean, all of them. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014because that <em>cures<\/em> everything. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heather:<\/strong> That was how I was handling some of my pain during that season; I ate all of my French fries that night. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe went back home, and we tabled that. Then, we had the other appointment for IVF that I had assumed, \u201cThis is not going to go well, and it\u2019s going to be super clear we\u2019re going to go back to adoption.\u201d We went to that, and it was actually a <em>\u00a0<\/em><em>wonderful<\/em> appointment! It was very pleasant; it was not as scary as I thought it would be. It was very informative, very encouraging, very hopeful.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHere it was <em>not<\/em> what I thought. I thought this was going to be our off-ramp from infertility treatment and an on-ramp for adoption. The data and the experiences were not making the path very clear. My husband and I\/we decided to table the issue for two weeks and not talk about it at all. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019m guessing it was the <em>talk<\/em> of every day\u2014right?\u2014before that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heather:<\/strong> \u2014every room, every space, every meal\u2014to not talk about it was the most uncomfortable thing; because we were consumed with that conversation: our family, our friends\/people would ask. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen we went into the two-week holding pattern, to not talk about it, God knew that I probably would not obey our boundaries well. He took Jonathan far away to a river in the middle of the country, that had not cell phone service at all, with some of his friends for half of that two-week period. So, he was out there in the middle of a river, in a boat, between two men that he\u2019s known for years for a good part of our two-week window. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMeanwhile, for me, every single day, everywhere I went, even though I wouldn\u2019t bring up the conversation, the conversation would steer to adoption in some way. I would hear something\/see something; someone would bring something up, and I wouldn\u2019t even bring it up\u2014it would be about adoption. That was happening for me every single day. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFor him, without me knowing, it was happening for him, too, even out on that boat between those two men. They\u2019re sitting there fishing, and the one guy in the back shows his cell phone, and says, \u201cHey, look at this! This is my <em>son<\/em>.\u201d Jonathan said, \u201cYour son! You\u2019re an empty nester. What are you talking about?\u201d He said, \u201cWe\u2019re adopting him from Haiti; isn\u2019t he beautiful?\u201d The guy at the front of the boat, that my husband had known fairly recently, \u201cYou don\u2019t know this, but I\u2019m adopted. That is so awesome!\u201d Jonathan said, \u201cI\u2019m out of the boat!\u201d [Laughter] He\u2019s like, \u201cEverything in me was wanting to jump out of the boat.\u201d He\u2019s like, \u201cI was surrounded\/literally, surrounded.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen he came home from his trip, I was sitting there trying to hold my hands and not blurt out everything that had been happening to me for two weeks. I\u2019m waiting, and waiting, and waiting. Finally, he says, \u201cWell, I know one thing; God has called us to adopt.\u201d I said, \u201cHurray!\u201d [Laughter] I think, for me, it wasn\u2019t just because we were going to adopt; it was that <em>God has been faithful<\/em>: \u201cLook at what God has done! He has given us <em>direction<\/em>. We had <em>no<\/em> idea; we could not trust the road signs. The experiences we were having were telling us conflicting things. He has overridden everything and made it simple for simple people.\u201d [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Heather, I want to go back to that cycle that you were in that some of our listeners are in right now\u2014that is the cycle of a month of hopefulness, and longing, and expectation\u2014and then disappointment and grieving\u2014that happens month after month, when you\u2019re thinking, \u201cI want to be a mom; we want to be parents. Maybe this is the month; we think this is the month.\u201d Maybe there are signs; then, all of a sudden, you have your period and you go, \u201cOkay; this wasn\u2019t the month.\u201d You\u2019re in tears again and wondering, \u201cHow long do we go through this?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHow do you counsel a woman today, who is in that moment, to handle the hope, and the grief, and the emotional cycle that she\u2019s in?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heather:<\/strong> Yes; I get those women, and they sit in the basement with me on a couch. We cry, and we grieve. We cry out like David did: \u201cHow long, O Lord? How long, O Lord?\u201d I think that\u2019s a <em>big<\/em> thing. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf I could go back to Heather\u2014back in those months, when it was just up and down, up and down\u2014whiplash of the soul, just really having a hard time orienting: \u201cWhere do I put my hope? Where do I hang this thing?\u201d; because it\u2019s falling off the rack every month. Seeing that I can hang my hope on a God who weeps\/He weeps with me. I don\u2019t have to hold my tears back; I don\u2019t have to be a woman of this rock-solid faith that just believes He\u2019s good, even when everything around me feels <em>bad<\/em>. I think creating that space for someone to really <em>hate<\/em> it\u2014and to say\/to help her put language to it\u2014\u201cI <em>hate<\/em> this!\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You\u2019re helping her lament.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heather:<\/strong> Yes, yes; I think we need that. Even in the Old Testament, it says, \u201cCall the wailing women, and those women are to train up other women in wailing.\u201d I feel like, \u201cIf we wailed better\/if we wailed more\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014like Hannah. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heather:<\/strong> Yes!\u2014if we wailed\/if we brought our lament to God\u2014she took it to the temple\u2014if we bring our grief to God, it\u2019s this offering of, \u201cI want to be yielded to You, but this is <em>killing me<\/em>.\u201d That is what\u2019s happening: there\u2019s a death of self; there\u2019s a death of will there. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I hear both of you saying, \u201cDon\u2019t do this on your own. Don\u2019t go through this cycle and this process on your own. You need some women, alongside you, who will be the wailing women with you and go through this journey with you.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Heather:<\/strong> And that is <em>not<\/em> my nature; it is <em>not<\/em> my nature to experience vulnerability with another woman: \u201cI have my own issues\/my own story,\u201d\u2014like a lot of us, we have our wounds and those moments we feel like, \u201cI\u2019ll never be able to trust my heart in this context.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFor me to come into a space with another woman\u2014and share with her this vulnerable grief\/this doubt that I have of God\u2019s goodness. Especially if I\u2019m carrying this sense of failure\u2014failure to conceive?\u2014\u201cI\u2019ve <em>failed<\/em>?\u201d\u2014that\u2019s a heavy weight my personality doesn\u2019t wear that well. To come into a vulnerable position with another woman and say, \u201cI feel like a <em>failure<\/em>, and I\u2019m <em>angry<\/em>. I\u2019m embarrassed that I\u2019m angry. I feel like a Christian woman\u2019s not allowed to be angry. I feel like I\u2019m wanting to control something; yet, I\u2019m wanting to be a women who yields. I don\u2019t even know where to put my hope anymore. I say that Jesus resurrects dead things, and yet this feels like it\u2019s too powerful for Him.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tTo have a space with another person that I can be that open with\u2014in the beginning, didn\u2019t feel safe\u2014it didn\u2019t feel like they could handle my declarations of doubt in a mature way, that they would still trust that I <em>was<\/em> secure in who God was, but I was in that place\/a dark night of the soul, I guess you could say. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I think what our listeners need to hear us recognizing is what I started to recognize, as a young husband, watching my wife grieve this. The pain of this is real. The questions are questions that we won\u2019t get answered on this side of heaven. We have to learn to be okay with not knowing the purposes of God in some of these situations. Ultimately, this is a question of: \u201cDo we trust Him with the story He\u2019s writing?\u201d or do we say, \u201cIf His story is not our story, we reject Him because we\u2019re committed to our story and not His story\u201d?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI will tell you\u2014pursuing your story and rejecting God is not the path to liberation, and freedom, and joy. It\u2019s a path of destruction that you put yourself on. Ultimately, you have to get to a place, where you say, \u201cEven though I don\u2019t understand what\u2019s going on here\/even though this is contrary to the longings of my own heart and soul, I will trust God.\u201d I think of Job, who\u2019s wife came to him and said, \u201cWith all of the stuff that\u2019s going on in our lives, why don\u2019t you just curse God and die?\u201d He said, \u201cThough He slay me, still will I trust Him.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHeather, we\u2019re offering to listeners this week your book, which is called <em>A Mother of Thousands: From Barren to Revolutionary.<\/em> I\u2019m thinking of listeners, who are tuned in and they go, \u201cThis is not <em>my<\/em> story, but I know someone. I have a friend at church,\u201d or \u201c\u2026someone at the office, who is in the middle of this difficult journey, who needs to hear from God on this.\u201d Get a copy of Heather\u2019s book, <em>A Mother of Thousands<\/em>, and give it to your friend as a gift. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019re making it available this week to those of you who can support the ministry of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> with a donation. We depend on those donations to be able to continue the work of this daily program. Your support is making these kind of conversations possible for hundreds of thousands of people every day, who tune in to listen to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> on their local radio station, via podcast, on our app\u2014wherever they find us. You make that possible when you support the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em> \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you can help with a donation, be sure to ask for a copy of Heather DeJesus Yates\u2019 book, <em>A Mother of Thousands: From Barren to Revolutionary<\/em>. It\u2019s our thank-you gift to you when you support the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em> You can do that, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can donate by calling 1-800-FL-TODAY\u20141-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tTomorrow, we\u2019re going to continue to follow Heather DeJesus Yates on the journey God took her on from infertility, ultimately, to adoption. We\u2019ll hear more about that tomorrow. I hope you can tune in for that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back tomorrow for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2020 FamilyLife. 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