{"id":306435,"date":"2020-09-26T07:00:04","date_gmt":"2020-09-26T11:00:04","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/the-heart-of-a-pastor\/"},"modified":"2020-09-26T07:00:04","modified_gmt":"2020-09-26T11:00:04","slug":"the-heart-of-a-pastor","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-this-week\/the-heart-of-a-pastor\/","title":{"rendered":"The Heart of a Pastor"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>As a worship pastor, Justin Unger feels the call and the challenge to lead a congregation in worship. He shares the twists and turns of his own story that drew him to minister to pastors.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":0,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/d2c17sq0nj1f7e.cloudfront.net\/flw2020-09-26.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:28:01","filesize":"25.66M","filesize_raw":"26904801","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2867,2822,2821],"tags":[4170],"podcast_series":[],"cwp_profile":[9657],"series":[10388],"class_list":["post-306435","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","hentry","category-church-involvement","category-growing-in-your-faith","category-reaching-out","tag-worship","cwp_profile-justin-unger","series-familylife-this-week"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":false,"episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/10\/FLTW-Podcast-Cover-2-1400x1400-1-300x300-1.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/dts.podtrac.com\/redirect.mp3\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/306435\/the-heart-of-a-pastor","player_link":"https:\/\/dts.podtrac.com\/redirect.mp3\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/306435\/the-heart-of-a-pastor","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-this-week","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"FUAnuahHtB\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-this-week\/the-heart-of-a-pastor\/\">The Heart of a Pastor<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-this-week\/the-heart-of-a-pastor\/embed\/#?secret=FUAnuahHtB\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;The Heart of a Pastor&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"FUAnuahHtB\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":false},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"kfairris@familylife.com","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/kfairrisfamilylife-com\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"As a worship pastor, Justin Unger feels the call and the challenge to lead a congregation in worship. He shares the twists and turns of his own story that drew him to minister to pastors.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/flw\/flw2020-09-26.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> You may have heard the name, Justin Unger. You may know him as an artist, or a performer, or maybe even as a worship pastor. But according to Justin, he considers himself something else, like a sheepdog?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> If you look at a flock of sheep coming down a hillside\u2014say there are a thousand of them\u2014if you get your binoculars out and look really close, you\u2019ll see, on the outskirts of the entire flock, these white sheepdogs that actually almost blend in with them. Anytime one of the little sheep run out of the flock, those dogs will come out and nip on their heel to bring them back together. The purpose of the sheepdog is to keep the sheep unified, going in the direction that the shepherd appointed them to go. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s what I find the most gratifying part of being a pastor\u2014is being able to work under the Chief Shepherd as a sheepdog to keep the body united and together.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> We\u2019re going to talk about the role of a sheepdog\u2014or worship pastor\/<em>your<\/em> worship pastor\u2014with Justin Unger, on this edition of <em>FamilyLife This Week<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWelcome to <em>FamilyLife This Week.<\/em> I\u2019m Michelle Hill. Did you know that there\u2019s someone in your life who is under extreme pressure? Well, of course; you\u2019re like, \u201cMichelle! We\u2019re living in such <em>weird<\/em> times. These last few months have just been almost unbearable. How are we going to live through this?\u201d But there is one person, who probably has a little extra-heavy weight around their shoulders right now. It\u2019s someone you know\u2014someone you usually see every Sunday and might even receive a phone call from them every so often\u2014someone who cares more for your soul than you know; it\u2019s your pastor. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe stress that he is walking through right now is just incredible. He\u2019s trying to shepherd a church through a pandemic that has people freaked out, fighting with each other, and struggling to stay alive, and in some cases, even dying. You know, October is Pastor Appreciation Month. Now, I know that\u2019s still a few days away; but we wanted to set aside today to just talk about the role of a pastor, and especially the role of a worship pastor.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019re going to hear from a worship pastor today, who <em>trains<\/em> worship pastors; but those weren\u2019t always his goals. I\u2019m going to let Justin tell you all about that. Here\u2019s my conversation with Justin Unger.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Previous Interview]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> When I was a junior in high school\u2014I had just finished my junior year\u2014I was entered into a contest in Estes Park, Colorado, which was for the Christian music industry\/Gospel Music Association. I had been writing songs with my grandfather. I ended up winning the entire grand prize for the entire event, which kind of blew all of our minds and caught us all off-guard. That won me a record contract in Nashville.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Wow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> So before I even went into my senior year, I had already been making plans to move to Nashville, Tennessee. I moved to Nashville; signed with Warner Brothers\u2019 Christian division. After about five years of being on the road, I kind of burned out in the music industry\u2014just didn\u2019t feel like being on the road was the best thing for me, as a husband. My wife and I had just found out that we were going to have a baby; so I just didn\u2019t feel like it was the right season for us to be on the road like that and to be raising a family.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> That\u2019s when I felt the call as a worship pastor. A church in northern Arizona reached out to me and said, \u201cHey, we heard that you\u2019re not doing the Nashville-thing anymore,\u201d and \u201cWe really love your music; we love your heart for the Word of God. Would you consider coming on our staff as a worship pastor?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI had never led worship, really, in my life; I had only been performing as a musician, so that was quite a transition for me. I realized that I had a deep love for the local church. Once I got involved in pastoral ministry, I started, much more, enjoying getting people to sing <em>with<\/em> me than performing for them, if that makes sense.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> That makes total sense! What was that like\u2014that first Sunday out on stage\u2014leading a congregation? Was there a weight to it, or was it freeing? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> It almost felt like a weight was lifted off, because I would say the pressure of performing musically got lifted off. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd then different kind of pressures, then, were put <em>on<\/em>; meaning, the pastoral pressures of caring for these people, and measuring what success is as a worship pastor, and knowing that my job is accomplished, as a worship leader, when everybody else is singing. That was\u2014it was kind of a both\/and\u2014I mean, it was the freedom; but then there was this new burden of caring for people and getting them to sing together; yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> How did you make that transition to, all of a sudden, being on stage\u2014you kind of have an audience\u2014but you\u2019re leading people? How did you make that transition?\u2014because that has to be a difficult transition to make.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> It\u2019s very difficult. A lot of worship artists still struggle with it; that\u2019s one of the reasons why our ministry exists\u2014is we\u2019re trying to get the rock star out of the worship pastor. We\u2019re trying to make a change in our church culture these days that keeps us from being performance-driven in our worship leading and being more pastoral\/shepherd-driven. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFor me, personally, it started to come naturally once the Lord started building this passion and this fire in my life for His people and His kingdom. It took me a little while; because, as an artist, I was kind of building my own kingdom. I know this kind of sounds a little edgy, but I felt like I was building this career; and I was on the throne of this kingdom. As long as everyone in this kingdom was doing what I needed them to do, I would be happy.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut being in the church changed that, because it put God back on the throne; and it allowed me to measure success in building <em>His<\/em> kingdom and serving <em>His<\/em> people, and knowing that the best way for me to do that would be completely humbling myself and getting out of the limelight, so that God could be in that light.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> I\u2019m just curious as to\u2014you mention about shepherding people. We always think of those who shepherd people as the lead pastor. How does the worship pastor <em>shepherd<\/em> the congregation and the flock?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> Yes, that\u2019s probably the most beautiful part about being, first, made in the image of God; but then, being able to cultivate the gifting and the community that He\u2019s called me to cultivate and work with. There\u2019s this burden in my heart, as a worship pastor, to keep people together. One of the best observations I can explain of <em>any<\/em> pastor is to consider myself as a sheepdog. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI know that sounds, maybe, degrading a little bit, as it should. When I think about a pastor\u2014if you look at a flock of sheep coming down a hillside\u2014say there are a thousand of them\u2014if you get your binoculars out and look really close, you\u2019ll see, on the outskirts of the entire flock, these white sheepdogs that actually almost blend in with them. Anytime one of the little sheep run out of the flock, those dogs will come out and nip on their heel to bring them back together. The purpose of the sheepdog is to keep the sheep unified, going in the direction that the shepherd appointed them to go. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s what I find the most gratifying part of being a pastor\u2014is being able to work under the Chief Shepherd, as a sheepdog, to keep the body united and together. That\u2019s what the gift of music does too. I mean, as you know, music has a supernatural, unifying\u2014there are hardly words that I can put to it\u2014but it\u2019s almost like glue. Singing and worshiping together glues us together as the body. It\u2019s an honor to be one of the sheepdogs, who can kind of bring everyone together in that way.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> That is a beautiful picture; I mean, of the sheepdog, because you\u2019re right! If you look at a big herd of sheep that\u2019s going down the hill, like you just said, you have those dogs, who are just trying to keep them going <em>this<\/em> way.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> As a pastor, how seriously do you take your job, day in and day out?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> Oh, it\u2019s a very heavy burden; but I try to keep it in balance. One of the other reasons why our ministry, Likewise Worship, exists is to be preventative for worship pastors, who actually are taking their job <em>too<\/em> seriously. I burned out in the church, because I considered my position too important and more important than I should have. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI try to keep pastoral ministry in balance, knowing that the measure of success is honoring the Lord\u2014whether it\u2019s for a church of 20 people, or 2,000, or 20,000\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> \u2014feeding His sheep, tending His flock, taking care of His lambs\u2014that is the goal, no matter how big or small. It\u2019s a heavy burden; it\u2019s a great responsibility, and it\u2019s honestly an honor to be able to serve the Lord as a pastor and caring for people.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Now, you just mentioned Likewise Worship as a ministry that you\u2019re also involved with.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Tell us a little bit about that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> Yes; that\u2019s actually where I spend most of my time nowadays. It\u2019s a ministry that <em>pastors<\/em>\u2014pastors. We pour into the pastors who have been burning out because of the expectations that they find in the church. We also have become a preventative ministry for the next generation of worship leaders coming up, giving them preventative measures to take care of themselves: and to put their walk with the Lord first; their health, physically, and their families before their jobs and careers.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt's basically a discipleship-based ministry; and that\u2019s where the name, \u201cLikewise,\u201d comes from\/it\u2019s: \u201cGo and do likewise.\u201d This is what we\u2019ve seen from those, who have gone before us\u2014especially in Scripture as we look at King David as a worship pastor\/as we look at all these other men in Scripture\u2014going and doing as they did, all for God\u2019s glory. It\u2019s a pretty simple ministry that\u2019s based on discipleship, caring for the pastors that really need someone to come alongside them and guide them.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Studio]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Such encouragement from Justin Unger. You know, if you are a pastor or a worship pastor, and you want to know more information about Likewise and what Justin is doing with worship pastors, go to our website, FamilyLifeThisWeek.com; that\u2019s FamilyLifeThisWeek.com. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe need to take a break; but when we come back, we\u2019ll continue talking with Justin about how we can appreciate the pastors in our lives. Stay tuned. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Radio Station Spot Break]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Welcome back to <em>FamilyLife This Week. <\/em>I\u2019m Michelle Hill. We are talking with Justin Unger today, and he is a worship pastor. I started probing to find out: \u201cJust where is his heart with the local church?\u2014in today\u2019s kind of cultural skew and, really, preferences and what people decide what they want from <em>their<\/em> church.\u201d Here\u2019s Part Two of my conversation with Justin.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Previous Interview]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Okay, I want to go back to when you left Nashville and started working in the local church. You mentioned that God gave you a unique passion for the local church. What was that, and what have you seen grow?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> Yes; I think, when we line up with what God\u2019s heart is for the church\u2014a lot of people will go to church\/they\u2019ll bounce around to different churches; they\u2019re trying to find <em>their<\/em> heart language. Part of my dream and my passion is to help God\u2019s people line back up with what <em>God\u2019s<\/em> heart language is\u2014because when we become preference-driven and consumer-driven with church, and going to different various churches, or trying to find a place that feeds us\u2014I think we\u2019re missing the mark. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat we are passionate about is uniting the body under the banner of God\u2019s heart language. What is God\u2019s heart language? In the Book of John, we hear Jesus praying for us that we would be one\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> \u2014that we would be unified. That\u2019s my greatest passion\u2014is to see the body of Christ unified. Right now, we live in a culture\u2014I think it\u2019s probably worse than we\u2019ve ever seen in America, where the church is divided\u2014there has been, even with the pandemic and even with some of the social injustice stuff\u2014a lot of this stuff has <em>divided<\/em> the body. When it comes to my personal passion\u2014is that the body would be one. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s why I\u2019m so passionate about worship; because there\u2019s one thing, that we can all agree on, that unifies us; it\u2019s when we sing together. We feel connected with one another in a way that most of us can\u2019t even explain. My goal would be to get God\u2019s people singing together, which means that I have to lay aside my preferences, even with songs and music.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> A lot of folks have their traditions: \u201cI want the hymns!\u201d [Laughter] \u201cWell, I want the modern stuff!\u201d They\u2019ll argue and argue, but the church gathering\/the Sunday gathering isn\u2019t supposed to be for us to get our own needs met; it\u2019s: \u201cwhat are the needs of others?\u201d and \u201cWhat is God\u2019s heart language?\u201d If that means I need to sacrifice my own style preference or song preference to be unified, I\u2019m going to have to do that; because that\u2019s what God\u2019s heart language is\u2014that we would be one\u2014as Christ and the Father are one.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Last March, a pandemic hit. Churches were asked, like everything else, to close the doors for a bit. Things changed for you, I\u2019m sure, as a pastor and as a shepherd of the people in the congregation. What was that like?\u2014to, all of a sudden, be removed from the people you\u2019re ministering to.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> Yes; well, from our ministry\u2019s perspective, it was a little chaotic; because we are caring for over 200 pastors\u2014here on the West Coast: Arizona\/northern Arizona; Orange County, California; and now, San Diego. We kind of saw a lot of worship pastors go into panic mode; because you know, it was a good reality check for everybody. Because so many of us, especially musicians, find our identity in what they <em>do<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt was a really good teaching moment for me to be able to remind all of our leaders that: \u201cWhat you do isn\u2019t who you are,\u201d and reminding them that the Lord is fully aware of what\u2019s going on and how we need to navigate through this. We gave them lots of tools to become more involved in caring for the people in their church in a different way. You don\u2019t get to be together; you don\u2019t get to make the eye contact that you usually do or hear all the voices singing together for this season. Teaching them and showing them new ways to interact with their congregations through\u2014whether it\u2019s\u00a0 Zoom calls, or personal phone calls, or sending them hand-written letters\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> \u2014you know, just the things that make someone feel cared for and loved. It\u2019s been a really good pastoral moment for a lot of the worship pastors. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe one thing it\u2019s been hard to watch, for some senior pastors, is that it\u2019s created a lot of fear. They wonder all of the \u201cWhat ifs\u2026\u201d: \u201cWhat if we <em>never<\/em> go back to normal?\u201d \u201cWhat if people stop giving?\u201d and \u201cWhat do we do when this happens?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> You know, people fearful for their jobs. It\u2019s been our job, at Likewise, to get people back to the main thing: \u201cWhy are we here? We are made in the image of God.\u201d Remembering that we have an incredible\/incredible opportunity to point people toward hope and faith in a very fearful world\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> \u2014and reminding them that God\u2019s people are looking to <em>us<\/em> in ministry leadership.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> \u201cHey! Where do we go? What do we do?\u201d Sheep naturally are kind of directionless.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> They\u2019re quick to wander astray; so they need strong leadership to keep them on track, and together, and unified. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> You know what I mean?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> I like what you just said about sheep being directionless. I\u2019ve been reading through Exodus. You know\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> Yes!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> \u2014just the reminder that the Israelites just kept looking from one side to the next, even though God was performing all these miracles.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> Yes!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Do you ever feel like, as the sheep are wandering, do you ever feel like you have a thankless job?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> Oh, all the time. You know, part of that\u2014my ego will sometimes get in the way, where I want that affirmation; you know? And that\u2019s\u2014sometimes I would say\u2014even the enemy, who is trying to make me feel like this is about <em>me<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> But the sooner I can get off of that and remember, \u201cHey, my identity isn\u2019t in what people think of me; but my identity is: \u2018Is what I\u2019m doing pleasing to my Father?\u2019\u201d That\u2019s what we work really hard to remind all of our leaders. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut yes, it is, in essence, a thankless job; because sheep, as you know\u2014they\u2019re just kind of needy. They just need someone to point them in the right direction. Once they get in that right direction, you know, they feel good for a moment; but then, like the Israelites, we are very forgetful people. As God\u2019s sheep, we are; I mean, we see a miracle happen before our eyes; and then, a week later, we\u2019re building an idol\/we\u2019re building a golden calf; you know?[Laughter] We all have our different ways that we do that, but we are just like the Israelites in that way. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs a worship leader, I love having the opportunity to help people remember\u2014that\u2019s what worship does so well\u2014helping us remember, with hearts of thankfulness, what God has done, and what He\u2019s going to do, and what His promises are.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> \u2014to remember\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> \u2014that is such a good word\/such a good word: \u201cto remember.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Justin, as we are heading into Pastor Appreciation Month this month of October, how can congregations come alongside of their pastors? How can we pray for you? How can we support you?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> That\u2019s awesome! Yes, I would say the best way to connect with the heart of the pastor is through just encouraging notes, especially on Mondays; okay? Most pastors will agree with me: there are these doldrums on Mondays after a high-adrenaline\/high-momentum day on the weekend\u2014you feel appreciated and loved on Sunday\u2014but Monday comes, and it\u2019s almost like the war begins. Mondays are great days just to send a text, or an email, or a hand-written note, or anything just to encourage those who are in leadership in the church. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd then having grace and patience in a season of unknowns. A lot of people expect pastors to have all the answers, and we don\u2019t! [Laughter] I mean, a lot of the leaders that I\u2019m talking to\u2014people can fake it for a while\/the whole \u201cFake it \u2018til you make it\u201d kind of thing with church leadership\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> \u2014but we\u2019re navigating through uncharted territory right now\u2014everybody! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere\u2019s actually a Scripture, if there are any pastors listening, that\u2019s kind of our mission passage for Likewise Worship: it\u2019s Hebrews, Chapter 6, verse 10, where it says, \u201cFor God is not unjust so as to forget your work and the love which you have shown toward His name in having ministered and in still ministering to the saints. We desire that each one of you show the same diligence so as to realize the full assurance of hope until the end so that you will not become sluggish, but be imitators of those, who through faith and patience, inherit the promises.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s kind of our \u201cDo likewise\u201d passage: \u201c\u2026be imitators of those who\u2019ve been obedient, and those who\u2019ve gone before us; but also, not to become lazy\/don\u2019t become sluggish in this time.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFor a lot of us in ministry, and even in\u2014you know, I guess one thing I would love to say to everybody, who bears the name of Christ\u2014especially husbands and fathers: you <em>are<\/em> a pastor!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> You have a small group, at home, of people that you are called to pastor and care for. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s the thing I love about FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, is the home is so important\/it\u2019s the highest importance; and it\u2019s the most beautiful picture of the gospel that we can present to a broken and lost world. If we can pastor our wives, and we can pastor our kids\u2014which means \u201cshepherd\u201d\/it\u2019s shepherding them, guiding them, and protecting them\u2014I think that\u2019s going to be the win\/win; because when we have that shepherding heart, then it\u2019s just going to ooze out onto everyone around us; and then, I believe, the gospel is going to be clearly seen in our lives. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI don\u2019t know if that was a way-long answer to your question.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> No, it was perfect! It was perfect. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJustin, our time is over for today. I have so appreciated just seeing the passion that you have for what you do.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> Oh, thanks.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> It\u2019s obvious that God has put that in your life and in your heart, so thank you for leading the church and leading the charge.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Justin:<\/strong> Thank you! Thank you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Studio]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> What an encouraging conversation to have with Justin Unger. To get more information on what he is doing, and maybe even hear a few new songs, go to our website, FamilyLifeThisWeek.com; that\u2019s FamilyLifeThisWeek.com. We have ways to connect with him.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAlso, as we head into Pastor Appreciation Month, be thinking how you can encourage your pastor or pastors, as Justin said, especially on Monday during those Monday doldrums. You know, they work harder than you think; and they are under pressures that you may not see. Especially, during this month, pray for them; maybe write a card of encouragement and thank them. You know, maybe even brainstorm with your small group or others in your church and just talk through, \u201cWhat can [we] do for our pastor and his family this month?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHey, have you ever been through a hard season in life?\u2014you know, someone badly hurt you. I\u2019m sure you can think of an instance\/maybe even a few, and you had to forgive; it was not easy. Maybe it\u2019s still there. Next week, we are going to hear from a man, whose wife was killed in the Charleston church shooting five years ago. God took him on a journey of forgiveness. You\u2019ll want to tune in to our interview with Reverend Anthony Thompson next week on <em>FamilyLife This Week. <\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>\u00a0<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHey, thanks for listening! I want to thank the president of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, David Robbins, along with our station partners around the country. A big \u201cThank you!\u201d to our engineer today, Keith Lynch. Thanks to our producer, Marques Holt. Justin Adams is our mastering engineer, and Megan Martin is our production coordinator.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOur program is a production of FamilyLife, and our mission is to effectively develop godly families who change the world one home at a time.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI'm Michelle Hill, inviting you to join us again next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife This Week.<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"about:blank\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2020 FamilyLife. 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