{"id":306402,"date":"2020-09-11T07:00:06","date_gmt":"2020-09-11T11:00:06","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/how-anger-can-save-a-marriage\/"},"modified":"2020-09-11T07:00:06","modified_gmt":"2020-09-11T11:00:06","slug":"how-anger-can-save-a-marriage","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/how-anger-can-save-a-marriage\/","title":{"rendered":"How Anger Can Save A Marriage"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Pastor Scott Sauls coaches listeners with practical insights on using gentle answers in relationships. Learn the six most powerful words in a marriage, and how anger can actually help save a dying marriage.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2020-09-11.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:26:20","filesize":"24.12M","filesize_raw":"25288491","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2848,2821],"tags":[6944],"podcast_series":[8390],"cwp_profile":[3442],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-306402","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-cultural-issues","category-reaching-out","tag-a-gentle-answer","podcast_series-a-gentle-answer","cwp_profile-scott-sauls","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/306402\/how-anger-can-save-a-marriage","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/306402\/how-anger-can-save-a-marriage","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"va7tM0ing4\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/how-anger-can-save-a-marriage\/\">How Anger Can Save A Marriage<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/how-anger-can-save-a-marriage\/embed\/#?secret=va7tM0ing4\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;How Anger Can Save A Marriage&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"va7tM0ing4\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2020-09-11.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2020-09-11.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Have you found yourself getting angry about things that are happening in your family or in our world today? Author and pastor, Scott Sauls, says it may be that you're on solid biblical ground with your anger.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>\u201cBe angry\u201d\u2014imperative; it's a command\u2014\u201cBe angry and do not sin.\u201d What does that mean? Well, if you go to Romans, it describes what that means: \u201cHate what is evil and cling to what is good.\u201d In order to cling to what is good, you have to hate what's evil. Attack the problem, not the people. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for\u00a0 Friday, September 11<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I'm Bob Lepine. You\u2019ll find us online at FamilyLifeToday.com. There is a right way to be angry; and there certainly is a wrong way to be angry, especially in our current climate. We'll talk about the right way and the wrong way today with Pastor Scott Sauls. Stay with us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. Back last spring, I saw a tweet that said, \u201cCritique gently; encourage fiercely.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That's a <em>good<\/em> one. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I said, \u201cThat's a good one.\u201d I retweeted that one and I said, \u201cI wonder how Twitter<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> and the rest of the culture would be transformed if we all started doing that more.\u201d And of course, the tweet came from Scott Sauls, who is with us in the studio.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> He's sitting with us in the studio. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>He is right here with us, again, on <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em> Welcome again.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott:<\/strong> Hey; good to be with you again.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Scott is a pastor from Nashville, Tennessee\/pastor at Christ Presbyterian Church. He's an author and a speaker and has written a new book called <em>A Gentle Answer: Our \u201cSecret Weapon\u201d in an Age of Us Against Them<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe've been talking this week about what gentle answers look like and how we grow in our ability to give them. I've been thinking as we've been having this conversation: \u201cThere's a difference between\u00a0 a gentle answer and a passive\/aggressive response.\u201d I think there are some people, who would say, \u201cWell, I did that; I gave a gentle answer.\u201d And what they were really doing was being passive\/aggressive; right? I mean, you've seen that happen. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott:<\/strong> It's not gentle unless your beneficiary or victim of your gentleness says it's gentle. [Laughter] That's the person who gets to evaluate whether you've been gentle. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>We can give a <em>soft<\/em> answer, and it can still not be gentle; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott:<\/strong> That is correct. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I mean, I've known\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Do you have an example of that, Bob? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, I remember our mutual friend, Bryan Loritts talking about\u2014in marriage, sometimes a husband or wife can be what he called the \u201csecret assassin,\u201d where a wife will say something; and a husband will go, \u201cUh-uh. Okay; alright.\u201d And they don't say anything more. You might say, \u201cWell, that felt like a gentle answer to me; I didn't say anything.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut there's so much behind that, \u201cUh-uh. Okay; alright.\u201d I mean, hidden behind that is: \u201cI'm thinking menacing things about you. I'm plotting my revenge. I'm just not going to give away any of the clues about what's going on.\u201d I think sometimes, in marriage\/in a family, we can say, \u201cWell, I didn't say anything <em>harsh<\/em>.\u201d There's a difference between not saying something harshly and giving a gentle answer. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>So you're saying even the non-verbals can be harsh\u2014<em>rolling<\/em> your eyes\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>That's part of what Scott's been saying\u2014posture, tone\u2014all of those things. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe Bible's telling us\u2014and this is what we've been seeing all week\u2014\u201cThere is relational power in the gentle answer.\u201d When we are in the middle of escalating conflict, and we give a gentle answer, all of a sudden, a lot of the escalating power is drained out of that \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tconflict. We find ourselves in a whole different place, where maybe we can be shoulder to shoulder, rather than standing as opponents to one another. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes; I know one time, in the Detroit Lion's locker room, I was in there for a Bible study\u2014getting ready to go\u2014and there was some\/I don't remember the issue\u2014but something was breaking up between two position groups that locker beside each other, and it was getting <em>heated<\/em>. Again, I wasn't at the beginning of this conversation; I walked in and I <em>saw<\/em> this. My first thought is: \u201cI don't like conflict; I'm going to go into the Bible study room and pray and wait for everybody.\u201d And then I'm like, \u201cNo, no, no; maybe I need to step in as almost a negotiator.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs I got closer to the corner of the locker room\u2014and you know, an NFL locker room is a <em>very<\/em> big room, so it was 20 steps\u2014one of the guys just went like this with his arms\u2014he put them up and said, \u201cOkay; okay. Stop!\u201d People are yelling at this time; there are no coaches there. I'm walking over, thinking I'm going to help; and all of a sudden, the guy puts his arms up and says, \u201cYou're right; I'm wrong. I thought I was right, but I realize I'm wrong; and I'm really sorry. This is all on me. This is <em>not<\/em> your issue. I'm sorry; let's talk.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe whole room went, \u201cPhew!\u201d He was sort of yelling at that point, but his posture was gentle; you know what I'm saying? It was loud, because he needed to be heard; but when he realized the problem in this conflict is\u2014not \u201cyou guys\u201d\u2014\u201cit's me,\u201d and he admitted that\u2014the whole room\/it's almost like the whole locker room went, \u201cOkay; we're all good.\u201d There's unity over there; they're going to sit down and talk through the details. But the <em>posture<\/em> was more important than the words said. It was like he was saying something strong, but it was gentle. I saw the whole\/it's like the whole temperature of the room just went \u201cPhew!\u201d\u00a0 That's what you're talking about?\u2014that kind of thing?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott:<\/strong> The six most powerful words in a marriage are, \u201cI was wrong; I am sorry.\u201d If you want to have a <em>great<\/em> marriage, make sure those words are a regular part of your vocabulary. If those words are absent from the vocabulary, or if just one of you is saying those words consistently, then it's a dysfunctional situation that needs help, and you need a counselor. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Scott, the second half of your book, <em>A Gentle Answer,<\/em> you walk us through things we need to cultivate in order to be gentle responders. The first thing you say is: \u201cWe've got to develop thicker skin.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I thought these were really good, and I kind of graded myself on each of these. I think it gives us a good reminder of what it <em>could<\/em> look like. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So thicker skin means not easily offended? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott:<\/strong> Yes; that's certainly part of it. You know, we are fragile people. I remember a quote from Mariah Carey in an interview once, where she said, \u201cI can hear a thousand praises and one criticism, and that one criticism will destroy the thousand praises in my heart.\u201d I think we're all kind of built that way. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt makes sense that we're built that way; right? We're made in the image of God, and why does God exist first and foremost?\u2014to be glorified and enjoyed. He exists to be glorified and enjoyed by His creation\/by people. We're made in that image; and so there's a very natural right built into us\u2014a godlike desire\u2014to be appreciated, and loved, and all of those things. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut we've also got this problem\u2014you know, called sin\u2014and offensive behavior and things that we need to apologize for. We need to have a posture, Bob, that can be receptive to things that will help us grow. We say, as Christians\u2014which I know is the majority of your audience and is the majority of my audience\u2014we say that we want to grow into the likeness of Christ, but we want to bypass the process; right? We want to get to Easter without Good Friday. We want to get to glory without discipleship. We want to get to heaven without denying ourselves daily\/taking up our cross and following Christ.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe have to reorient our understanding of a disagreement and to see that a disagreement can actually shape us, like the Bible does. What a disagreement does, like the Bible does, it points out blind spots that we have if we're willing to engage with it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMy mentor, Tim Keller\u2014and he got this from John Newton, the guy who wrote <em>Amazing Grace<\/em>, the hymn\u2014he says that, even when we're unfairly criticized\u2014you know that the really grown-up Christian thing to do is to get a quiet moment with somebody we trust and ask them the question: \u201cAre there any kernels of truth in this unfair criticism that I can learn from, and can be an occasion for humility, repentance, and receiving afresh the grace of Jesus Christ?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think if we can develop patterns\u2014it's like exercising; right?\u2014it's going to be <em>really<\/em> hard at the beginning, when you haven't ever done it before\u2014like, \u201cThis is miserable.\u201d And then, after a week, you're like, \u201cThis isn't so bad.\u201d And then after a month, you're like, \u201cOh, this is starting to feel good.\u201d Then after a year, you start to look like Dave; you know, you're just <em>ripped<\/em>. [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Oh, yes; that\u2019s really funny. [Laughter] You hear that, honey?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>You are <em>ripped<\/em>. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>But it's something that has to be cultivated; right? Like the character that can receive constructive feedback\u2014or even negative feedback\u2014the character that can receive that humbly, doesn't cook up in us like in a microwave. It's a crockpot; it takes a long, long series and season of practicing, you know, those steps of humility each time we're confronted with how we're not complete yet. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe say, \u201cI'm a sinner; Christ died for me.\u201d That's like the foundational thing of Christianity. You can't be a Christian if you're not a hypocrite\u2014like you can't have a credible profession of faith unless you own the fact that you're a hypocrite; that you don't live consistently with what you say you believe. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd yet, when we get in disagreements, that is one Christian truth that we <em>deny<\/em>. We might even go to the <em>grave<\/em>, denying it\u2014that we're a hypocrite. Like we'll say to God; we'll say it about ourselves, <em>in general<\/em>, in moments of non-conflict; but in a moment of conflict, we will not drill down\/we dare not drill down to the specifics; but the specifics are where God actually does His work. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I know I read a book, years ago, about Pixar. John Lasseter, one of the CEOs of the company said, \u201cHere's how these movies became blockbusters\u2026\u201d The writers would bring it in to what they called the \u201cbrain trust.\u201d A brain trust is supposed to <em>evaluate<\/em> the script and say, \u201cGo do it,\u201d or \u201cWe've got to change some things.\u201d He said, \u201cI'm going to be honest; every single number-one blockbuster movie you've watched\u2014when it came in, was <em>horrible<\/em>\u2014and the brain trust said, \u2018Here's what you need to change.\u2019\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere was <em>no<\/em> attack on any individual\u2014just: \u201cThis is not going to work, because of these reasons...Go fix it.\u201d His point was that you need a brain trust in your life to help you see things you don't see; because they thought the movie was done until they presented it. Then they went away, and they fixed all those things, and it was a number-one blockbuster. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI remember putting that book down and going, \u201cI'm a bad movie.\u201d I need people in my life to go, \u201cDude, I don't think you know this about yourself\u2026\u201d If I reject that with my arrogance\u2014like you just said, Scott\u2014I'm not a hypocrite. But if I <em>receive<\/em> that, I could be a great movie; God could do something. I think part of God's purpose for marriage is he gives you a partner to say, \u201cI'm going to allow her\/him to sharpen you to become what? \u2014like Christ.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think you're really good at this, honey. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Whatever.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>You are; no, but I've seen you do it with our kids. One of our sons went to the <em>Passion Conference<\/em>; he was in college. He comes back home, and he is fired up for Jesus. He goes to our church service; we go out to lunch after, and it's just the three of us\u2014the son, and Dave, and I. He looks at Dave and he said, \u201cDad; you're <em>dead<\/em>.\u201d [Laughter] I was like, \u201cOh boy; here we go!\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>This is after one of the <em>best<\/em> sermons I'd ever given. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Dave goes, \u201cWhat are you talking about?\u201d And he says, \u201cI just feel like, spiritually, there's not a lot going on right now.\u201d [Laughter] I am like, \u201cOh man; what is going to happen during this lunch?!\u201d I watched Dave put down his fork, lean across the table, \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tand said, \u201cTell me more; what do you mean by that?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI feel like my respect for you, honey\u2014I was <em>amazed<\/em> at your response. And I think the thing that I love most about the conversation is he went back to God and asked God, \u201cIs there truth in what my son said to me?\u201d What I saw happen was a personal revival take place in Dave's life. He wasn't just being defensive; but he asked God, \u201cIs there truth in what my son spoke to me?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I'm thinking of 1 Peter, Chapter 2, where one of the things Peter says about Jesus is: \u201cWhen He was reviled, He did not revile in return.\u201d So cultivating in us a patience, a humility, a not easily provoked\u2014so cultivating a heart that is not quickly and easily wounded is a part of how we grow in being able to give a gentle response.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne of the things you say in the book, Scott, is we also have to learn how to do anger right as opposed to doing it sinfully. Coach us on that: \u201cWhat do we do when our face starts to become flush, and we can feel our blood pressure going up, and we know what's coming next is not healthy or godly? How do we deal with that?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott:<\/strong> I think your listeners might actually, or anybody who opens up the Table of Contents, might look at this book and say, \u201cOh, this looks like a bait and switch\u201d; because when you read the chapter titles, you know, it starts with a section about the gentleness of Christ toward us, but then the second section is the application part. It's five chapters that don't sound like what our image of what gentleness means\u2014you know: \u201cWe Grow Thicker Skin,\u201d \u201cWe Do Anger Well,\u201d \u201cWe Receive Criticism Graciously,\u201d \u201cWe Forgive All the Way,\u201d and \u201cWe Bless Even Our Own Betrayers.\u201d\u00a0 That sounds more gutsy and traumatic even, than our image\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>It doesn't sound like Mr. Rogers. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott:<\/strong> Right? It doesn't, but here's something about Mr. Rogers. You know what made him the way he was?\u2014anger and pain. He's known as one of the most gentle public figures that has ever graced the American screen. He was bullied as a child. He was overweight; his peers called him \u201cFat Fred,\u201d and that really hurt him. He vowed to grow up and be the kind of man, who would reverse that shame narrative for children; because he grew up with it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHis pain drove his gentleness and his anger. He looked around at American society in particular and felt like children do not get taken nearly as seriously as they ought to. Their voices are shut down\u2014you know, \u201cYou should be seen, but not heard,\u201d\u2014you know all of that. And he said that children have some of the greatest things to teach us, and he was <em>mad<\/em> about that [they weren\u2019t taken seriously]. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnger is a destructive energy. But the question isn't: \u201cShould we ever be angry, because it's a destructive energy?\u201d The real question is: \u201cWhat are we trying to <em>destroy<\/em>?\u201d If we're trying to destroy <em>people<\/em>, then our anger is rage; it's transitioned into toxic, unhealthy anger, where we're trying to destroy somebody: we're assassinating their character; we're discrediting them; we're gossiping about them; we're slandering about them; we're buying into far right-\/far left-leaning cable news narratives\u2014we're buying into that. We start committing \u201cassume-icide\u201d; right? We assume caricatures about people, reducing them to the very worst things we can think about them as people. That's <em>rage<\/em>. We have a society that thrives on rage; rage is monetized. You know, the first line in <em>A Gentle Answer,<\/em> the book, is a quote from John Perkins, who says that this generation is the first generation that's learned to turn hate into an asset.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf we are attacking problems, not people\u2014if we are angry at <em>problems<\/em>\u2014that is a <em>very<\/em> godly thing. Part of why God sent Jesus was because God got angry at a <em>problem<\/em> that's destroying us. He didn't get angry at us; He got angry at the problem that's enslaved us\u2014sin\u2014right? And so he sent Jesus out of anger [toward sin]. You know, the Psalms\u2014you know, as well as Ephesians\u2014actually say, \u201cBe angry.\u201d You know, you guys have dabbled somewhere along the way, I'm sure, in Hebrew and Greek, the original languages for the Old and New Testament.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tUnfortunately, I don't know why this happens in English translation sometimes\u2014In John, Chapter 11 [verse 33], Jesus gets <em>infuriated<\/em> at death; but they tone the language down for some reason\u2014it says: \u201cHe was deeply moved in Spirit.\u201d What it really says is: \u201cHe was as mad as a hornet,\u201d\/\u201cHe was as angry as a raging bull,\u201d\u2014is the language. I don't know; maybe we're a little scared to present Him as He actually is. And also, our English translations will say, \u201cIn your anger, do not sin,\u201d\u2014when, in fact, it says\u2014\u201cBe angry\u201d\u2014imperative; it's a command\u2014\u201cBe angry and do not sin.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat does that mean? Well, if you go to Romans, it describes what that means: \u201cHate what is evil and cling to what is good.\u201d In order to cling to what is good, you have to hate what's evil. Attack the <em>problem<\/em>, not the people. You know, even C.S. Lewis\u2014he said that \u201cChristianity is a fighting religion.\u201d In <em>Mere Christianity<\/em>, one of the most famous Christian books every written: \u201cChristianity is a fighting religion. It looks at the world and sees everything that is wrong, and it goes on the attack.\u201d The reason why hospitals exist is because of Christians who got angry at sickness; Christians invented the hospital. The reason why Ivy League universities exist is because Christians got angry about the lack of education in undeveloped minds. You know, the reason why the orphan care movements and the foster care movements got started was because Christians got angry at isolated, unloved kids and orphaned kids. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou could go on and on and on and on\u2014civil rights movement\u2014somebody got angry at the injustices toward black people. That movement was led by a Christian, Martin Luther King, Jr., and the likes of John Perkins, who is spoken about in the book. I could keep going; but anger has fueled so many beautiful movements in the name of Christ over the years, that have attacked <em>problems<\/em> while seeking to rescue people from those problems.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I think about that, in our marriages and our families, and say: \u201cIf we can recognize\u201d\u2014as we've said, for years, at the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> marriage getaway\u2014\u201cyour mate is not your enemy; your mate's your ally. There is an enemy who wants to destroy your marriage, and we should be angry at <em>him<\/em>. There are problems that may exist in your marriage, and you should attack those problems without attacking one another. And when we can figure out how to do anger right,\u201d\u2014one of the things you talk about in the book\u2014\u201cthen we can be on the way to a productive, healthy relationship that can bring honor and glory to God.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And I'm actually hoping there's a husband\/there's a wife, that's angry right now, in a righteous way, at where their marriage may be. You know, it's like: \u201cI've let it drift; I've allowed mediocrity to be the norm of our home.\u201d Listening to you, Scott, and this broadcast right now, they're like, \u201cWhat am I doing? This is the day. I'm mad enough to do something.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOf course, the only way you're going to move into your marriage and make it better is <em>gently<\/em>. You can't storm in there and say, \u201cYou've got to love me like you're supposed to, woman.\u201d You're going to have to walk in gently and tenderly. But anger should be\/it's okay to be the foundation; because, as you just illustrated, it has led to all kinds of great stuff. It can literally change your marriage and your legacy if you gently move in and say: \u201cNo more; this is not going to happen any more. I'm stepping into this marriage like I should, and I'm going to do the right thing.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>Yes; there are two challenges there: one is being\/raging at our spouse; the other is raging at [yourself] through self-loathing\u2014you know: \u201cI'm such a failure,\u201d etc. It's been so many years of this tense undercurrent of anger, maybe toward one another, that they may feel stuck. They may even read the chapter in the book and think, \u201cYou know, this all sounds great; but so much water under the bridge\u2014we feel so stuck.\u201d This is where a really good marriage and family counselor can be just a gift; I highly recommend it. I mean, I think I'm probably in that category of people that have a strong healthy marriage, and we go to a counselor regularly to help us with where we are still not arrived.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd the thing is\u2014we'll never arrive\u2014so we've always got things to work on. Especially, if you're in crisis, you may not have the resources, just the two of you, to undo or reverse eight, ten, twenty, fifty years of [ill-health]. But that doesn't mean there isn't hope; because there are people, who can really help with that stuff. It's worth the money; it's worth the time; it's worth it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Scott, I'm sitting here thinking: \u201cHow marriages would be different in the next four months if we started practicing what you're talking about in this book. If we were angry at the right stuff, if we developed thicker skin, if we started responding gently to one another with humility, how would our family culture be different? How would our marriages be different? How would our country be different?\u2014if we found the way to go through an election season with humility, and gentleness, and wanting to listen to the other side, rather than just to score points.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI hope people will get a copy of your book, and read it and underline it, and share it with one another, and talk about: \u201cHow can we be this kind of person?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThank you for coming over and spending this time with us and helping us think about these things. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>My pleasure; thanks. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>We want to make your book available this week to any <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>listener who can help underwrite the cost of producing and syndicating this program, so that others can hear practical biblical help and hope for their marriage and their families. Day in and day out, you help us reach more people, more often, when you support the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today. <\/em>If you're able to help with a donation today, we'd love to send you Scott's book as a way of saying, \u201cThank you.\u201d The book, again, is called <em>A Gentle Answer: Our \u201cSecret Weapon\u201d in an Age of Us against Them. <\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>\u00a0<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou can donate, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com, or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY; make your donation over the phone. You're really investing in the lives, and the marriages, and the families of hundreds of thousands of people every day, who are turning to <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>on radio, on their mobile device, listening as a podcast, or listening on their Alexa<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> device. They're coming to us for encouragement and to be mentored, and you make that possible when you donate. Again, you can donate, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY. Thanks, in advance, for your support; and we hope you enjoy Scott's book,<em> A Gentle Answer<\/em>. We're happy to send it out to you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe hope you have a great weekend. I hope you and your family are able to worship together in your local church this weekend. And I hope you can join us back on Monday, \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\twhen we're going to talk about what we do when we experience betrayal in marriage, from a family member, or from someone outside our family. How do we respond when we've been betrayed? Phil Waldrep joins us to talk with us about that. I hope you can join us as well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2020 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:26:20"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["24.12M"],"filesize_raw":["25288491"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-306402.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-306402.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom 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Scott Sauls coaches listeners with practical insights on using gentle answers in relationships. Learn the six most powerful words in a marriage, and how anger can actually help save a dying marriage.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2020-09-11.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Have you found yourself getting angry about things that are happening in your family or in our world today? Author and pastor, Scott Sauls, says it may be that you're on solid biblical ground with your anger.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>\u201cBe angry\u201d\u2014imperative; it's a command\u2014\u201cBe angry and do not sin.\u201d What does that mean? Well, if you go to Romans, it describes what that means: \u201cHate what is evil and cling to what is good.\u201d In order to cling to what is good, you have to hate what's evil. Attack the problem, not the people. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for\u00a0 Friday, September 11<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I'm Bob Lepine. You\u2019ll find us online at FamilyLifeToday.com. There is a right way to be angry; and there certainly is a wrong way to be angry, especially in our current climate. We'll talk about the right way and the wrong way today with Pastor Scott Sauls. Stay with us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. Back last spring, I saw a tweet that said, \u201cCritique gently; encourage fiercely.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That's a <em>good<\/em> one. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I said, \u201cThat's a good one.\u201d I retweeted that one and I said, \u201cI wonder how Twitter<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> and the rest of the culture would be transformed if we all started doing that more.\u201d And of course, the tweet came from Scott Sauls, who is with us in the studio.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> He's sitting with us in the studio. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>He is right here with us, again, on <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em> Welcome again.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott:<\/strong> Hey; good to be with you again.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Scott is a pastor from Nashville, Tennessee\/pastor at Christ Presbyterian Church. He's an author and a speaker and has written a new book called <em>A Gentle Answer: Our \u201cSecret Weapon\u201d in an Age of Us Against Them<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe've been talking this week about what gentle answers look like and how we grow in our ability to give them. I've been thinking as we've been having this conversation: \u201cThere's a difference between\u00a0 a gentle answer and a passive\/aggressive response.\u201d I think there are some people, who would say, \u201cWell, I did that; I gave a gentle answer.\u201d And what they were really doing was being passive\/aggressive; right? I mean, you've seen that happen. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott:<\/strong> It's not gentle unless your beneficiary or victim of your gentleness says it's gentle. [Laughter] That's the person who gets to evaluate whether you've been gentle. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>We can give a <em>soft<\/em> answer, and it can still not be gentle; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott:<\/strong> That is correct. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I mean, I've known\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Do you have an example of that, Bob? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, I remember our mutual friend, Bryan Loritts talking about\u2014in marriage, sometimes a husband or wife can be what he called the \u201csecret assassin,\u201d where a wife will say something; and a husband will go, \u201cUh-uh. Okay; alright.\u201d And they don't say anything more. You might say, \u201cWell, that felt like a gentle answer to me; I didn't say anything.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut there's so much behind that, \u201cUh-uh. Okay; alright.\u201d I mean, hidden behind that is: \u201cI'm thinking menacing things about you. I'm plotting my revenge. I'm just not going to give away any of the clues about what's going on.\u201d I think sometimes, in marriage\/in a family, we can say, \u201cWell, I didn't say anything <em>harsh<\/em>.\u201d There's a difference between not saying something harshly and giving a gentle answer. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>So you're saying even the non-verbals can be harsh\u2014<em>rolling<\/em> your eyes\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>That's part of what Scott's been saying\u2014posture, tone\u2014all of those things. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe Bible's telling us\u2014and this is what we've been seeing all week\u2014\u201cThere is relational power in the gentle answer.\u201d When we are in the middle of escalating conflict, and we give a gentle answer, all of a sudden, a lot of the escalating power is drained out of that \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tconflict. We find ourselves in a whole different place, where maybe we can be shoulder to shoulder, rather than standing as opponents to one another. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes; I know one time, in the Detroit Lion's locker room, I was in there for a Bible study\u2014getting ready to go\u2014and there was some\/I don't remember the issue\u2014but something was breaking up between two position groups that locker beside each other, and it was getting <em>heated<\/em>. Again, I wasn't at the beginning of this conversation; I walked in and I <em>saw<\/em> this. My first thought is: \u201cI don't like conflict; I'm going to go into the Bible study room and pray and wait for everybody.\u201d And then I'm like, \u201cNo, no, no; maybe I need to step in as almost a negotiator.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs I got closer to the corner of the locker room\u2014and you know, an NFL locker room is a <em>very<\/em> big room, so it was 20 steps\u2014one of the guys just went like this with his arms\u2014he put them up and said, \u201cOkay; okay. Stop!\u201d People are yelling at this time; there are no coaches there. I'm walking over, thinking I'm going to help; and all of a sudden, the guy puts his arms up and says, \u201cYou're right; I'm wrong. I thought I was right, but I realize I'm wrong; and I'm really sorry. This is all on me. This is <em>not<\/em> your issue. I'm sorry; let's talk.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe whole room went, \u201cPhew!\u201d He was sort of yelling at that point, but his posture was gentle; you know what I'm saying? It was loud, because he needed to be heard; but when he realized the problem in this conflict is\u2014not \u201cyou guys\u201d\u2014\u201cit's me,\u201d and he admitted that\u2014the whole room\/it's almost like the whole locker room went, \u201cOkay; we're all good.\u201d There's unity over there; they're going to sit down and talk through the details. But the <em>posture<\/em> was more important than the words said. It was like he was saying something strong, but it was gentle. I saw the whole\/it's like the whole temperature of the room just went \u201cPhew!\u201d\u00a0 That's what you're talking about?\u2014that kind of thing?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott:<\/strong> The six most powerful words in a marriage are, \u201cI was wrong; I am sorry.\u201d If you want to have a <em>great<\/em> marriage, make sure those words are a regular part of your vocabulary. If those words are absent from the vocabulary, or if just one of you is saying those words consistently, then it's a dysfunctional situation that needs help, and you need a counselor. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Scott, the second half of your book, <em>A Gentle Answer,<\/em> you walk us through things we need to cultivate in order to be gentle responders. The first thing you say is: \u201cWe've got to develop thicker skin.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I thought these were really good, and I kind of graded myself on each of these. I think it gives us a good reminder of what it <em>could<\/em> look like. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>So thicker skin means not easily offended? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott:<\/strong> Yes; that's certainly part of it. You know, we are fragile people. I remember a quote from Mariah Carey in an interview once, where she said, \u201cI can hear a thousand praises and one criticism, and that one criticism will destroy the thousand praises in my heart.\u201d I think we're all kind of built that way. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt makes sense that we're built that way; right? We're made in the image of God, and why does God exist first and foremost?\u2014to be glorified and enjoyed. He exists to be glorified and enjoyed by His creation\/by people. We're made in that image; and so there's a very natural right built into us\u2014a godlike desire\u2014to be appreciated, and loved, and all of those things. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut we've also got this problem\u2014you know, called sin\u2014and offensive behavior and things that we need to apologize for. We need to have a posture, Bob, that can be receptive to things that will help us grow. We say, as Christians\u2014which I know is the majority of your audience and is the majority of my audience\u2014we say that we want to grow into the likeness of Christ, but we want to bypass the process; right? We want to get to Easter without Good Friday. We want to get to glory without discipleship. We want to get to heaven without denying ourselves daily\/taking up our cross and following Christ.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe have to reorient our understanding of a disagreement and to see that a disagreement can actually shape us, like the Bible does. What a disagreement does, like the Bible does, it points out blind spots that we have if we're willing to engage with it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMy mentor, Tim Keller\u2014and he got this from John Newton, the guy who wrote <em>Amazing Grace<\/em>, the hymn\u2014he says that, even when we're unfairly criticized\u2014you know that the really grown-up Christian thing to do is to get a quiet moment with somebody we trust and ask them the question: \u201cAre there any kernels of truth in this unfair criticism that I can learn from, and can be an occasion for humility, repentance, and receiving afresh the grace of Jesus Christ?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think if we can develop patterns\u2014it's like exercising; right?\u2014it's going to be <em>really<\/em> hard at the beginning, when you haven't ever done it before\u2014like, \u201cThis is miserable.\u201d And then, after a week, you're like, \u201cThis isn't so bad.\u201d And then after a month, you're like, \u201cOh, this is starting to feel good.\u201d Then after a year, you start to look like Dave; you know, you're just <em>ripped<\/em>. [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Oh, yes; that\u2019s really funny. [Laughter] You hear that, honey?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>You are <em>ripped<\/em>. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>But it's something that has to be cultivated; right? Like the character that can receive constructive feedback\u2014or even negative feedback\u2014the character that can receive that humbly, doesn't cook up in us like in a microwave. It's a crockpot; it takes a long, long series and season of practicing, you know, those steps of humility each time we're confronted with how we're not complete yet. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe say, \u201cI'm a sinner; Christ died for me.\u201d That's like the foundational thing of Christianity. You can't be a Christian if you're not a hypocrite\u2014like you can't have a credible profession of faith unless you own the fact that you're a hypocrite; that you don't live consistently with what you say you believe. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd yet, when we get in disagreements, that is one Christian truth that we <em>deny<\/em>. We might even go to the <em>grave<\/em>, denying it\u2014that we're a hypocrite. Like we'll say to God; we'll say it about ourselves, <em>in general<\/em>, in moments of non-conflict; but in a moment of conflict, we will not drill down\/we dare not drill down to the specifics; but the specifics are where God actually does His work. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I know I read a book, years ago, about Pixar. John Lasseter, one of the CEOs of the company said, \u201cHere's how these movies became blockbusters\u2026\u201d The writers would bring it in to what they called the \u201cbrain trust.\u201d A brain trust is supposed to <em>evaluate<\/em> the script and say, \u201cGo do it,\u201d or \u201cWe've got to change some things.\u201d He said, \u201cI'm going to be honest; every single number-one blockbuster movie you've watched\u2014when it came in, was <em>horrible<\/em>\u2014and the brain trust said, \u2018Here's what you need to change.\u2019\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere was <em>no<\/em> attack on any individual\u2014just: \u201cThis is not going to work, because of these reasons...Go fix it.\u201d His point was that you need a brain trust in your life to help you see things you don't see; because they thought the movie was done until they presented it. Then they went away, and they fixed all those things, and it was a number-one blockbuster. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI remember putting that book down and going, \u201cI'm a bad movie.\u201d I need people in my life to go, \u201cDude, I don't think you know this about yourself\u2026\u201d If I reject that with my arrogance\u2014like you just said, Scott\u2014I'm not a hypocrite. But if I <em>receive<\/em> that, I could be a great movie; God could do something. I think part of God's purpose for marriage is he gives you a partner to say, \u201cI'm going to allow her\/him to sharpen you to become what? \u2014like Christ.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think you're really good at this, honey. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Whatever.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>You are; no, but I've seen you do it with our kids. One of our sons went to the <em>Passion Conference<\/em>; he was in college. He comes back home, and he is fired up for Jesus. He goes to our church service; we go out to lunch after, and it's just the three of us\u2014the son, and Dave, and I. He looks at Dave and he said, \u201cDad; you're <em>dead<\/em>.\u201d [Laughter] I was like, \u201cOh boy; here we go!\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>This is after one of the <em>best<\/em> sermons I'd ever given. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Dave goes, \u201cWhat are you talking about?\u201d And he says, \u201cI just feel like, spiritually, there's not a lot going on right now.\u201d [Laughter] I am like, \u201cOh man; what is going to happen during this lunch?!\u201d I watched Dave put down his fork, lean across the table, \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tand said, \u201cTell me more; what do you mean by that?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI feel like my respect for you, honey\u2014I was <em>amazed<\/em> at your response. And I think the thing that I love most about the conversation is he went back to God and asked God, \u201cIs there truth in what my son said to me?\u201d What I saw happen was a personal revival take place in Dave's life. He wasn't just being defensive; but he asked God, \u201cIs there truth in what my son spoke to me?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I'm thinking of 1 Peter, Chapter 2, where one of the things Peter says about Jesus is: \u201cWhen He was reviled, He did not revile in return.\u201d So cultivating in us a patience, a humility, a not easily provoked\u2014so cultivating a heart that is not quickly and easily wounded is a part of how we grow in being able to give a gentle response.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne of the things you say in the book, Scott, is we also have to learn how to do anger right as opposed to doing it sinfully. Coach us on that: \u201cWhat do we do when our face starts to become flush, and we can feel our blood pressure going up, and we know what's coming next is not healthy or godly? How do we deal with that?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott:<\/strong> I think your listeners might actually, or anybody who opens up the Table of Contents, might look at this book and say, \u201cOh, this looks like a bait and switch\u201d; because when you read the chapter titles, you know, it starts with a section about the gentleness of Christ toward us, but then the second section is the application part. It's five chapters that don't sound like what our image of what gentleness means\u2014you know: \u201cWe Grow Thicker Skin,\u201d \u201cWe Do Anger Well,\u201d \u201cWe Receive Criticism Graciously,\u201d \u201cWe Forgive All the Way,\u201d and \u201cWe Bless Even Our Own Betrayers.\u201d\u00a0 That sounds more gutsy and traumatic even, than our image\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>It doesn't sound like Mr. Rogers. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott:<\/strong> Right? It doesn't, but here's something about Mr. Rogers. You know what made him the way he was?\u2014anger and pain. He's known as one of the most gentle public figures that has ever graced the American screen. He was bullied as a child. He was overweight; his peers called him \u201cFat Fred,\u201d and that really hurt him. He vowed to grow up and be the kind of man, who would reverse that shame narrative for children; because he grew up with it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHis pain drove his gentleness and his anger. He looked around at American society in particular and felt like children do not get taken nearly as seriously as they ought to. Their voices are shut down\u2014you know, \u201cYou should be seen, but not heard,\u201d\u2014you know all of that. And he said that children have some of the greatest things to teach us, and he was <em>mad<\/em> about that [they weren\u2019t taken seriously]. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnger is a destructive energy. But the question isn't: \u201cShould we ever be angry, because it's a destructive energy?\u201d The real question is: \u201cWhat are we trying to <em>destroy<\/em>?\u201d If we're trying to destroy <em>people<\/em>, then our anger is rage; it's transitioned into toxic, unhealthy anger, where we're trying to destroy somebody: we're assassinating their character; we're discrediting them; we're gossiping about them; we're slandering about them; we're buying into far right-\/far left-leaning cable news narratives\u2014we're buying into that. We start committing \u201cassume-icide\u201d; right? We assume caricatures about people, reducing them to the very worst things we can think about them as people. That's <em>rage<\/em>. We have a society that thrives on rage; rage is monetized. You know, the first line in <em>A Gentle Answer,<\/em> the book, is a quote from John Perkins, who says that this generation is the first generation that's learned to turn hate into an asset.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf we are attacking problems, not people\u2014if we are angry at <em>problems<\/em>\u2014that is a <em>very<\/em> godly thing. Part of why God sent Jesus was because God got angry at a <em>problem<\/em> that's destroying us. He didn't get angry at us; He got angry at the problem that's enslaved us\u2014sin\u2014right? And so he sent Jesus out of anger [toward sin]. You know, the Psalms\u2014you know, as well as Ephesians\u2014actually say, \u201cBe angry.\u201d You know, you guys have dabbled somewhere along the way, I'm sure, in Hebrew and Greek, the original languages for the Old and New Testament.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tUnfortunately, I don't know why this happens in English translation sometimes\u2014In John, Chapter 11 [verse 33], Jesus gets <em>infuriated<\/em> at death; but they tone the language down for some reason\u2014it says: \u201cHe was deeply moved in Spirit.\u201d What it really says is: \u201cHe was as mad as a hornet,\u201d\/\u201cHe was as angry as a raging bull,\u201d\u2014is the language. I don't know; maybe we're a little scared to present Him as He actually is. And also, our English translations will say, \u201cIn your anger, do not sin,\u201d\u2014when, in fact, it says\u2014\u201cBe angry\u201d\u2014imperative; it's a command\u2014\u201cBe angry and do not sin.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat does that mean? Well, if you go to Romans, it describes what that means: \u201cHate what is evil and cling to what is good.\u201d In order to cling to what is good, you have to hate what's evil. Attack the <em>problem<\/em>, not the people. You know, even C.S. Lewis\u2014he said that \u201cChristianity is a fighting religion.\u201d In <em>Mere Christianity<\/em>, one of the most famous Christian books every written: \u201cChristianity is a fighting religion. It looks at the world and sees everything that is wrong, and it goes on the attack.\u201d The reason why hospitals exist is because of Christians who got angry at sickness; Christians invented the hospital. The reason why Ivy League universities exist is because Christians got angry about the lack of education in undeveloped minds. You know, the reason why the orphan care movements and the foster care movements got started was because Christians got angry at isolated, unloved kids and orphaned kids. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou could go on and on and on and on\u2014civil rights movement\u2014somebody got angry at the injustices toward black people. That movement was led by a Christian, Martin Luther King, Jr., and the likes of John Perkins, who is spoken about in the book. I could keep going; but anger has fueled so many beautiful movements in the name of Christ over the years, that have attacked <em>problems<\/em> while seeking to rescue people from those problems.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I think about that, in our marriages and our families, and say: \u201cIf we can recognize\u201d\u2014as we've said, for years, at the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> marriage getaway\u2014\u201cyour mate is not your enemy; your mate's your ally. There is an enemy who wants to destroy your marriage, and we should be angry at <em>him<\/em>. There are problems that may exist in your marriage, and you should attack those problems without attacking one another. And when we can figure out how to do anger right,\u201d\u2014one of the things you talk about in the book\u2014\u201cthen we can be on the way to a productive, healthy relationship that can bring honor and glory to God.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And I'm actually hoping there's a husband\/there's a wife, that's angry right now, in a righteous way, at where their marriage may be. You know, it's like: \u201cI've let it drift; I've allowed mediocrity to be the norm of our home.\u201d Listening to you, Scott, and this broadcast right now, they're like, \u201cWhat am I doing? This is the day. I'm mad enough to do something.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOf course, the only way you're going to move into your marriage and make it better is <em>gently<\/em>. You can't storm in there and say, \u201cYou've got to love me like you're supposed to, woman.\u201d You're going to have to walk in gently and tenderly. But anger should be\/it's okay to be the foundation; because, as you just illustrated, it has led to all kinds of great stuff. It can literally change your marriage and your legacy if you gently move in and say: \u201cNo more; this is not going to happen any more. I'm stepping into this marriage like I should, and I'm going to do the right thing.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>Yes; there are two challenges there: one is being\/raging at our spouse; the other is raging at [yourself] through self-loathing\u2014you know: \u201cI'm such a failure,\u201d etc. It's been so many years of this tense undercurrent of anger, maybe toward one another, that they may feel stuck. They may even read the chapter in the book and think, \u201cYou know, this all sounds great; but so much water under the bridge\u2014we feel so stuck.\u201d This is where a really good marriage and family counselor can be just a gift; I highly recommend it. I mean, I think I'm probably in that category of people that have a strong healthy marriage, and we go to a counselor regularly to help us with where we are still not arrived.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd the thing is\u2014we'll never arrive\u2014so we've always got things to work on. Especially, if you're in crisis, you may not have the resources, just the two of you, to undo or reverse eight, ten, twenty, fifty years of [ill-health]. But that doesn't mean there isn't hope; because there are people, who can really help with that stuff. It's worth the money; it's worth the time; it's worth it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Scott, I'm sitting here thinking: \u201cHow marriages would be different in the next four months if we started practicing what you're talking about in this book. If we were angry at the right stuff, if we developed thicker skin, if we started responding gently to one another with humility, how would our family culture be different? How would our marriages be different? How would our country be different?\u2014if we found the way to go through an election season with humility, and gentleness, and wanting to listen to the other side, rather than just to score points.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI hope people will get a copy of your book, and read it and underline it, and share it with one another, and talk about: \u201cHow can we be this kind of person?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThank you for coming over and spending this time with us and helping us think about these things. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Scott: <\/strong>My pleasure; thanks. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>We want to make your book available this week to any <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>listener who can help underwrite the cost of producing and syndicating this program, so that others can hear practical biblical help and hope for their marriage and their families. Day in and day out, you help us reach more people, more often, when you support the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today. <\/em>If you're able to help with a donation today, we'd love to send you Scott's book as a way of saying, \u201cThank you.\u201d The book, again, is called <em>A Gentle Answer: Our \u201cSecret Weapon\u201d in an Age of Us against Them. <\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>\u00a0<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou can donate, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com, or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY; make your donation over the phone. You're really investing in the lives, and the marriages, and the families of hundreds of thousands of people every day, who are turning to <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>on radio, on their mobile device, listening as a podcast, or listening on their Alexa<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> device. They're coming to us for encouragement and to be mentored, and you make that possible when you donate. Again, you can donate, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY. Thanks, in advance, for your support; and we hope you enjoy Scott's book,<em> A Gentle Answer<\/em>. We're happy to send it out to you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe hope you have a great weekend. I hope you and your family are able to worship together in your local church this weekend. And I hope you can join us back on Monday, \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\twhen we're going to talk about what we do when we experience betrayal in marriage, from a family member, or from someone outside our family. How do we respond when we've been betrayed? Phil Waldrep joins us to talk with us about that. I hope you can join us as well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2020 FamilyLife. 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