{"id":306374,"date":"2020-08-28T07:00:05","date_gmt":"2020-08-28T11:00:05","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/a-different-type-of-love-story\/"},"modified":"2020-08-28T07:00:05","modified_gmt":"2020-08-28T11:00:05","slug":"a-different-type-of-love-story","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/a-different-type-of-love-story\/","title":{"rendered":"A Different Type of Love Story"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>How did a same-sex attracted atheist college student become a devout Christian mom raising a child within a loving heterosexual marriage? Dave and Ann Wilson, along with co-host Bob Lepine, find out from guest Rachel Gilson, author of the book &#8220;Born Again This Way.&#8221; Discover what the Christian community can learn from Rachel&#8217;s ongoing struggle against sexual brokenness. And find out the best things we can do to enter into this important cultural conversation with love and wisdom as Christians and as parents.<\/p>\n<p>Show Notes and Resources<\/p>\n<p> \tFind resources from this podcast at https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/Products.aspx?categoryid=95.<br \/>\n \tCheck out all that&#8217;s available on the FamilyLife Podcast Network.\u00a0 https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/familylife-podcast-network\/<br \/>\n \tHave the FamilyLife Today\u00ae podcast and resources helped you?\u00a0 Consider becoming a Legacy Partner, a monthly supporter of FamilyLife.\u00a0https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/legacy<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Rachel Gilson shares about her ongoing struggle against sexual brokenness. She suggests some helpful things Christians can do to enter into this important cultural conversation with love and wisdom.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2020-08-28.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:27:51","filesize":"25.49M","filesize_raw":"26733138","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2906,2805,2896],"tags":[4129],"podcast_series":[8386],"cwp_profile":[9644],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-306374","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-becoming-a-christian","category-gods-plan-for-marriage","category-lgbt","tag-homosexuality","podcast_series-born-again-this-way","cwp_profile-rachel-gilson","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/306374\/a-different-type-of-love-story","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/306374\/a-different-type-of-love-story","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"HVJHi5nR2U\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/a-different-type-of-love-story\/\">A Different Type of Love Story<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/a-different-type-of-love-story\/embed\/#?secret=HVJHi5nR2U\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;A Different Type of Love Story&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"HVJHi5nR2U\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2020-08-28.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2020-08-28.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> After experiencing same-sex attraction, as a young adult and living that out, Rachel Gilson found herself in a relationship with a young man, who wanted to marry her. She had to think long and hard about God\u2019s design for marriage and what it would mean for her to be this man\u2019s wife. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Rachel:<\/strong> Marriage isn\u2019t like a little quick weekend project\u2014like, \u201cI need to stain the deck\u201d; you know? It\u2019s a long-term building project\u2014like, \u201cI need to build a cathedral to worship the Lord.\u201d I think it was really good for me to actually soberly consider, \u201cDo Andrew and I have what it takes to build this partnership in the gospel, long-term?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Friday, August 28<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I\u2019m Bob Lepine. You can find us online at FamilyLifeToday.com. There is a lot all of us can learn about marriage from someone who has lived with same-sex attraction and had to think about marriage in some new ways. We\u2019ll hear from Rachel Gilson about that today. Stay with us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. Dave, you\u2019re in pastoral ministry; you\u2019ve been in pastoral ministry for 30 years. Anyone who is in pastoral ministry, in the year of our Lord 2020, is going to be confronted with questions about what we\u2019re talking about this week\/issues related to gender and sexuality. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Some of those questions coming from people, who are struggling\u2014some of those coming from people, who aren\u2019t struggling\u2014who are saying, \u201cNo; I\u2019m fine with how I\u2019m living. I want this and Jesus too.\u201d Have you had to have some hard conversations? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; definitely\u2014I think loving conversations; you know? I think there is a desire\u2014and I think it\u2019s a good desire\u2014for clarity: \u201cOkay; what\u2019s God\u2019s heart?\u201d \u201cWhat does Scripture say?\u201d \u201cWhat is true? What is untrue?\u201d \u201cWhat should be our response to a son or a daughter, who is asking those questions as well as a person in our church?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI hate to say it\u2014I sort of get excited, you know, about talking about those kind of questions because\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014you\u2019re excited for honesty. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You\u2019re excited when people don\u2019t put up a veneer, and they are willing to talk about real issues that they are facing. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cDon\u2019t hide. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cPlease don\u2019t hide, and let\u2019s talk,\u201d\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014you know? I hope I can be a representative of the heart of Jesus. You have to go back to Jesus, and back to His Word, to say, \u201cOkay; what does it say?\u201d and \u201cWhat does that mean for me?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We\u2019ve been having a good honest conversation this week with Rachel Gilson, who is joining us on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Hello, Rachel; welcome back. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Rachel:<\/strong> It has been honest, and I think it has been gospel-centered. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That\u2019s how we want it to be. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRachel is an author; she\u2019s a speaker. She provides theological guidance and oversight for all of us, who are a part of Cru<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, and has written a book that is part memoir and part, as I said, coaching manual for all of us in the culture to know, \u201cHow do we respond to the questions related to gender and sexuality in our friends\u2019 lives, in our kids\u2019 lives, in the lives of people we love in the church or outside the church?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHer book is called <em>Born Again This Way<\/em>; and it tells about your own experience with same-sex attraction, coming to Christ on the Yale campus, recognizing that you were going to have to put your sexual desires under the lordship of Christ if you were going to follow Christ. Ultimately, as we\u2019ve already talked about this week, you making the decision to marry a man and to now be the mother of\u2014is it one child or\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Rachel:<\/strong> \u2014one child. I want to be like an excellent college basketball player\u2014one and done. [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014one [daughter.] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRachel, tell us a little bit about how somebody, who in high school found yourself attracted\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Wait; wait; wait. I have to get into this; because I underlined and highlighted this in your book, because it\u2019s not something you read every day\u2014it says: \u201cIn 2007, I married a man; but it wasn\u2019t because I had fallen in love.\u201d That\u2019s not something you read every day; tell us about <em>that<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Rachel:<\/strong> Well, as a campus minister, I work with a lot of young college women. They kind of\u2014they get starry-eyed\u2014and they are like, \u201cTell me your love story!\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cOoh, you might be a little disappointed.\u201d [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And that\u2014because it\u2019s not typical\u2014it\u2019s not what you read, and it\u2019s not what our culture tells us is normal or should be normal. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Rachel:<\/strong> No; we\u2019re presented with the idea that romance is the on-ramp into marriage. I never felt romantic with men; I\u2019ve enjoyed the company of men, but that hadn\u2019t been an avenue. I happened to meet a young man named Andrew, who had a bad haircut and wore clothes that were a little too big; but he was really Jesus-centered and <em>really<\/em> delightful. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe started pursuing me, and this thing that was growing with Andrew really was <em>real<\/em>. I could tell: \u201cOur lives are centered in the same way. I really like him,\u201d\u2014I felt a lot of affection\u2014\u201cI think there\u2019s even some attraction here\u201d; but it felt kind of like a little flame that you have to cup your hands around to protect it. I thought, \u201cOh my goodness! Can I build a marriage on <em>that<\/em>?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, it drew me back to the Scriptures: \u201cWell, what does the Word say?\u201d I had to examine marriage again. What I saw as God\u2019s picture for marriage is that marriage does <em>one thing<\/em>: it is designed to explain\u2014in living, breathing pictures, around the world, over the course of history\u2014the gospel. It is a picture of God\u2019s relationship with His people. Part of that is faithfulness; part of that is sexual pleasure; part of that is procreation; part of that is male\/female\u2014and that you can have romance be a part of that picture\u2014but actually, you don\u2019t <em>need<\/em> romance to be a part of that picture. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMarriage isn\u2019t like a little quick weekend project\u2014like, \u201cI need to stain the deck\u201d; you know? It is a long-term building project\u2014like, \u201cI need to build a cathedral to worship the Lord.\u201d I think it was really good for me to actually soberly consider, \u201cDo Andrew and I have what it takes to build this partnership in the gospel, long-term?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHonestly, I kind of wish <em>more<\/em> of my students would have that kind of clarity as they sat down and considered what marriage is for instead of just being\/letting infatuation be the gateway into marriage, because it\u2019s a long-term thing. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Rachel, I just finished writing a book that has just been released called <em>Love Like You Mean It<\/em>; and it\u2019s 1 Corinthians 13 applied to marriage. It\u2019s exactly what you\u2019re saying\u2014it\u2019s saying, \u201cIf we approach this with the romantic comedy mentality\/with a pop song mentality, we\u2019re majoring on a minor part of the love relationship.\u201d Paul makes it clear\u2014under the inspiration of the Spirit, he puts hard words to what love is\u2014words like: patience, and kindness, and not self-seeking, and bearing all things, and hoping all things, and enduring all things. This is what we are signing up for when we stand and say, \u201cI will love, honor, and cherish you for the rest of my life.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Rachel:<\/strong> I\u2019m not sure how any husband decides to be a husband when they read Ephesians 5. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Rachel:<\/strong> It\u2019s like, \u201cOh, just love exactly like Christ did\u201d\u2014you know\u2014\u201cby <em>dying<\/em> to yourself.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> But what about <em>Andrew<\/em>? That had to be a little disconcerting to him\u2014it\u2019s not fireworks\u2014\u201cIs she attracted to me?\u201d What was <em>he<\/em> feeling? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; \u201cYou remind me of a little flame,\u201d\u2014not fireworks\u2014\u201cI\u2019m drawn to you like a little flame.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I\u2019m not sure how excited Dave would have been had I said, \u201cYes; I think there is a little something, maybe, there.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Rachel:<\/strong> Well, Andrew, luckily, is very secure as a human being. I remember trying to put him off when he first asked me out. He knew everything about my story before he even got involved, which I think was really important. He just looked at me very realistically; he was like, \u201cWell, Jesus has forgiven you; so how could I possibly hold that against you?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe thing about Andrew is that he loves Jesus just as much as I do, and he looks at everything through the gospel lens as well. I do think there have been times\u2014especially early in marriage, when you\u2019re still figuring out the sexual relationship\u2014so I think it\u2019s important that we talk about sex in marriage realistically because, actually, sex takes work. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> How much\u2014if you could be honest to say, how much did your past affect your sexual relationship in your marriage? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Rachel:<\/strong> You know, honestly, my sexual relationship in marriage has brought so much healing to my sexuality that it actually has nothing to do with my attractional patterns but has to do with some other major places, where I had experienced sexual brokenness. I had to realize, over time, \u201cOoh, my sexuality is tied into some things that are really unhelpful and really unbiblical\u201d; and actually, experiencing the safety and the joy in a committed sexual relationship with one person has been such a blessing to me. I\u2019ve actually experienced healing in kind of\u2014I\u2019m picturing like a wall with deep cracks\u2014like healing that gets poured deep down into those places; so for me, it\u2019s been a lot of joy. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think, too, as we think about our marriage\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> We\u2019re going to talk about our marriage now? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014yes; Dave and I have been married 40 years. Bob and Mary Ann just had 41 years for their anniversary. You know what?\u2014I\u2019m going to be honest\u2014it\u2019s not a big bonfire all the time; it seldom is, actually. [Laughter] Yet, that little flame that keeps going\u2014that has warmed my soul and continues to\u2014that steadfast love that Jesus has and the bond of Christ that we have together\u2014it\u2019s living for something bigger than <em>yourself<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Rachel:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Isn\u2019t that what we all need? Because when I\u2019m living for Dave, he will be <em>so<\/em> disappointed; because there is not a whole lot there; but if we\u2019re living on mission together\u2014and that\u2019s what it sounds like you and Andrew have\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Rachel:<\/strong> Our lives were oriented in the same direction. And you know, I was just reading Nancy Percy\u2019s book, <em>Love Thy Body<\/em>. She was reporting a statistic I\u2019ve seen other places, where it turns out the happiest people, sexually, are middle-aged, married Christians. I think there is something very realistic about saying, \u201cOh, sex doesn\u2019t have to be this movie scene all the time\u201d; and yet, it can still be a place of such intimacy, and joy, and promise, and connection. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Let\u2019s talk about, too: \u201cHow do we as a church\u201d\u2014there are so many blind spots that we carry\u2014\u201cHow do we lovingly help our friends that are same-sex attracted? What are the do\u2019s and don\u2019ts?\u201d I think we\u2019re walking on eggshells, so nobody will say anything in fear of hurting or offending. What do you think, Rachel? What are some steps that we can take in the church, as a body of Christ, but also as friends and even as parents? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Rachel:<\/strong> Yes; well, of course, some of our churches are in really different places. You know, you have some churches, where love and acceptance is really high; but knowledge of the Bible is really, really low. Then you have other churches, where knowledge of the Bible is really strong; but there is maybe insecurity about what having same-sex attracted people in the congregation would look like. Different churches are facing different realities as they come to the topic. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne of the number-one things we can do to love same-sex attracted people is just to listen. Let\u2019s say for a moment we\u2019re just talking about same-sex attracted people, who are disciples\/who are Christians. You just want to <em>listen<\/em> to their story; because many people, who experience same-sex attraction, grew up in the church and were wounded in some way by the church. It\u2019s really helpful for us to take the time to listen to the stories; sometimes, to apologize where necessary and to try to learn. Listening is such an <em>important<\/em> act of love. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen I think, too, another thing we can do is we can talk very honestly about whether a life of long-term singleness looks like a prison or looks like a place of thriving in our church community; because so many disciples, who experience same-sex attraction, will be called to long-term singleness. If singleness looks like the Sahara Desert, then we are not living up to what Jesus has talked about. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe said, very clearly, \u201cYou will leave fathers and mothers and children and lands for my sake, but you will receive a hundred times more, not just in the life to come, but now.\u201d The church is designed to be a family <em>now<\/em>\u2014and marrieds and singles\u2014we <em>need<\/em> each other; we need each other. Sometimes, the only view of singleness in the church has been, \u201cIn your early 20s, let\u2019s just try to figure out how to pair you off; because our only vision of the good life is the married life.\u201d Well, what do we say about Jesus Christ, Himself, who was an unmarried man, where that was <em>extremely<\/em> abnormal\u2014or to Paul? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think we need to <em>keep<\/em> the dignity of marriage and <em>recover<\/em> the dignity of singleness\u2014and have honest conversations with our children, with our young adults, with our older adults\u2014about how both of those life stages are a part of God\u2019s vision for the way that He is glorified on earth. I think, also, just being able to say, \u201cI experience same-sex attraction,\u201d and have that be okay in the church. We\u2019re not looking for a place to be celebrated, like, \u201cYay! You\u2019re so fantastic because you experience same-sex attraction\u201d; but how in the world can I get support for an issue in my life if I feel like I can\u2019t talk about it; right? If we practice speaking about all types of sexual temptation, as things that people really face, we\u2019ll create space for people to be open and honest. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Rachel, there is\u2014you know this\u2014a little bit of a debate among whether the desire\/the same-sex desire is something that will be perpetual\/a lifetime phenomenon or whether it ought to be\u2014the expectation ought to be that it\u2019s lessening over time as you grow in grace and in sanctification. What\u2019s your thinking on that? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Rachel:<\/strong> Sometimes, God comes in and completely removes a set of temptations to prove that He has all power in the universe. I know people whose attractions have been entirely changed, either immediately or slowly over time; I think that demonstrates God\u2019s power. There are also plenty of people, who have earnestly sought change, and haven\u2019t received it. A lot of those people have quoted back to me when Paul asked three times for the thorn in his flesh to be removed; and what God said is, \u201cYour weakness will show My strength; My grace is sufficient for you.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think, at other times, God allows same-sex attraction to remain. He allows temptations to remain because when I say, \u201cI\u2019m going to say, \u2018No,\u2019 to this very strong desire so that I can say, \u2018Yes,\u2019 to Jesus,\u201d what I am saying is: \u201cJesus is worth saying, \u2018Yes,\u2019 to.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s good. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Rachel:<\/strong> Maybe, it doesn\u2019t demonstrate power in the same way; but it demonstrates His <em>worth and His beauty<\/em>. I think He calls some Christians to be that kind of light in the world; because our culture thinks you are literally insane if you say, \u201cNo,\u201d to this. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Rachel:<\/strong> They\u2019ll tell me: \u201cYou\u2019re repressed,\u201d \u201cYou\u2019re homophobic,\u201d\u2014or these types of things\u2014I\u2019m saying, \u201cI\u2019m not any of those things. I\u2019ve <em>never<\/em> been repressed. What I am is in love with the God who made me.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That\u2019s good. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs a mother of a six-year-old in a part of the country, where public schools are rapidly embracing a cultural view of sexuality,\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Rachel:<\/strong> My daughter\u2019s kindergarten teacher is a woman who is married to another woman. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014so how are you thinking about this as you think about raising a six-year-old and then a 16-year-old eventually? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Rachel:<\/strong> What we do is\u2014we just don\u2019t talk about it and hope it all resolves itself. [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s what we all want to do. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Rachel:<\/strong> Well, it\u2019s been a big challenge. I just want to be very clear that\u2014partially, I feel like I\u2019m flying blind; because I wasn\u2019t raised in the Christian household. I don\u2019t really have a lot of great examples to look to; so I\u2019m just trying to rely on God\u2019s Spirit, and God\u2019s Word, and God\u2019s people. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne of the things I want to do over and over again\u2014and I try to practice with my daughter\u2014is we make it clear that Christians are not better than non-Christians. Actually, we are <em>all<\/em>\u2014<em>all<\/em>\u2014<em>all<\/em> sinners in need of the grace and truth of Jesus; and that the first thing we want to see happen in someone\u2019s life is that they say, \u201cYes,\u201d to the gospel; because if you don\u2019t say, \u201cYes,\u201d to the gospel, well, what good is it to live up to the externals of religion if you don\u2019t have the <em>Person<\/em> who it is all about? I try to talk about that with my daughter all the time. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>Then I try to explain to her the <em>positive<\/em> vision for sexuality. I try to explain to her that husbands and wives are a picture of the gospel. Now, I\u2019ve been talking to her about this since she was two or three; basically, because I didn\u2019t know what to do. I figured if I just talked to her about sex really early, maybe I\u2019ll catch it before it becomes awkward. [Laughter] I do think it\u2019s brought some fruit. She does understand there is a major link between our bodies and procreation. Now, could she explain that as articulately as me?\u2014I don\u2019t think so\u2014but I think there is power and safety in being honest, because she\u2019s going to hear it on the playground. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>The youngest age of boys being exposed to pornography right now is nine. If I\u2019m waiting until after nine years old to talk about what sexuality is, I have lost the game. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And how did you explain her teacher being married to a woman of the same sex? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Rachel:<\/strong> She actually just found out pretty recently, because her teacher\u2019s wife gave birth to a child. My daughter came home: \u201cDid you know that she is married to a woman?\u201d \u201cOh, I did know.\u201d She was like, \u201cHow did they have a baby? How does that happen?\u201d We talked about: \u201cWell, you know that they can\u2019t,\u201d\u2014because she knew those two women couldn\u2019t take their bodies and make a baby. I was like, \u201cRight; so they had to go <em>outside<\/em> their marriage.\u201d She was kind of quickly like, \u201cIs that wrong?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI was like, \u201cRight; we understand that there is only one place where sexual expression\u201d\u2014I forget; she likes to refer to it as connecting bodies\u2014that\u2019s the phrase she\u2019s locked onto. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> It\u2019s a good one. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Rachel:<\/strong> It\u2019s a good one; right? So like: \u201cThere is only one place where God sanctions that; but we have to remember: \u2018Your teacher isn\u2019t a terrible person just because this is how she is living her life. Her <em>main<\/em> issue is that she needs the gospel.\u2019\u201d I mean, I love the quote Rosaria Butterfield has said, \u201cA non-Christian gay person\u2019s problem isn\u2019t that they are gay; it\u2019s their <em>unbelief<\/em>.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You know, Rachel, none of us in this room were ever having conversations with our six-year-olds about the things you\u2019re having to have conversations with your six-year-old about. I applaud <em>you<\/em> and the moms and dads, who are in the middle of a cultural tsunami, and trying to hang on for dear life and grasp for air in the process. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Rachel:<\/strong> I think there is a lot of reason why parents of my age, with kids who are young, we\u2019re feeling overwhelmed\/we\u2019re feeling afraid; because we haven\u2019t really had to do this in this culture. However, the gospel shines <em>extremely<\/em> bright in the darkness. The gospel is the power of salvation for everyone who believes, and it actually makes the best sense of the world. If we equip our children with a worldview that actually explains who we are, what our bodies are for, and there is Someone who made us and loves us, it is actually more compelling than everything else that is happening in the world outside. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> This is not an easy book to write; you have been incredibly vulnerable and real. That takes incredible courage, knowing that there are going to be people who don\u2019t agree with you. You are a grace-giver and a truth-teller in a beautiful way. Thank you! This helps us, and we need this in a time, where we are pointing people to Jesus. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Rachel:<\/strong> Well, if any of that\u2019s true, to Him be the glory. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We believe it is true. Again, thank you for being with us. We want to let our listeners know how they can get a copy of Rachel\u2019s book; it\u2019s called <em>Born Again This Way<\/em>. We\u2019ve got copies in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. I\u2019d encourage you to get it, and to read it, and to share it with others. Go online to FamilyLifeToday.com to get your copy, or call 1-800-FL-TODAY. Again, the title of Rachel\u2019s book, <em>Born Again This Way: Coming Out, Coming to Faith, and What Comes Next<\/em>. Order online at FamilyLifeToday.com, or call 1-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, today is the last day of the week. It\u2019s the last day I have to encourage you to join the <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Legacy Partner team. I\u2019ve mentioned this earlier this week; we\u2019ve had some friends of the ministry who came to us, knowing that we need some new families to join with us to be monthly contributors to the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, to provide the financial footing that makes this program possible. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>They have agreed that they will match every donation that we receive from a new Legacy Partner\u2014somebody who signs on this week\u2014they\u2019ll match your donations for the next 12 months, dollar for dollar. You become a Legacy Partner and say, \u201cWe\u2019ll give $50 a month to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>\u201d; they are going to match that with an additional $50 a month every month for the next 12 months. That\u2019s a great opportunity for us\/a great opportunity for <em>you<\/em> for your giving to go even farther. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you sign on today, as a new Legacy Partner, we would like to say, \u201cThank you,\u201d by sending you, first of all, a copy of my new book, <em>Love Like You Mean It<\/em>. It\u2019s about what the Bible says real love in a marriage should look like. Then we\u2019re going to send you three episodes of the new TV show, <em>Slugs &amp; Bugs<\/em>, featuring Randall Goodgame. Randall was a guest with us earlier this week. It\u2019s a great kids\u2019 program for your children or for your grandchildren. Finally, we\u2019ll send you a gift card that you can use to cover the registration costs for a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> marriage getaway. That card is good anytime once the getaways are back happening\u2014once we get the \u201cAll clear,\u201d and can start hosting them again. You can use the getaway for yourself, or you can pass it along to a friend. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAll three of those items come to you when you become a <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Legacy Partner, and you can do that easily. You can sign up, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY. Let me encourage you to do it today so that your donations will be doubled for the next 12 months. Thanks, in advance, for joining the Legacy Partner team. We appreciate you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWith that, we have to wrap things up for today. Thanks for being with us. Hope you have a great weekend. Hope you and your family are able, one way or another, to worship together with your local church this weekend. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI hope you can join us back on Monday when we\u2019re going to talk about how important it is for you, as parents, not just to be praying <em>for<\/em> your children as they head back to school this year, but to be praying <em>with<\/em> them as they head to school this year. Holly Melton will be here to talk about how she\u2019s been doing that with her kids, and she\u2019s got some great ideas for all of us, as moms and dads. I hope you can tune in for that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a CruMinistry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2020 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:27:51"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["25.49M"],"filesize_raw":["26733138"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-306374.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-306374.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom 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Gilson shares about her ongoing struggle against sexual brokenness. She suggests some helpful things Christians can do to enter into this important cultural conversation with love and wisdom.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2020-08-28.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> After experiencing same-sex attraction, as a young adult and living that out, Rachel Gilson found herself in a relationship with a young man, who wanted to marry her. She had to think long and hard about God\u2019s design for marriage and what it would mean for her to be this man\u2019s wife. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Rachel:<\/strong> Marriage isn\u2019t like a little quick weekend project\u2014like, \u201cI need to stain the deck\u201d; you know? It\u2019s a long-term building project\u2014like, \u201cI need to build a cathedral to worship the Lord.\u201d I think it was really good for me to actually soberly consider, \u201cDo Andrew and I have what it takes to build this partnership in the gospel, long-term?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Friday, August 28<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I\u2019m Bob Lepine. You can find us online at FamilyLifeToday.com. There is a lot all of us can learn about marriage from someone who has lived with same-sex attraction and had to think about marriage in some new ways. We\u2019ll hear from Rachel Gilson about that today. Stay with us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. Dave, you\u2019re in pastoral ministry; you\u2019ve been in pastoral ministry for 30 years. Anyone who is in pastoral ministry, in the year of our Lord 2020, is going to be confronted with questions about what we\u2019re talking about this week\/issues related to gender and sexuality. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Some of those questions coming from people, who are struggling\u2014some of those coming from people, who aren\u2019t struggling\u2014who are saying, \u201cNo; I\u2019m fine with how I\u2019m living. I want this and Jesus too.\u201d Have you had to have some hard conversations? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; definitely\u2014I think loving conversations; you know? I think there is a desire\u2014and I think it\u2019s a good desire\u2014for clarity: \u201cOkay; what\u2019s God\u2019s heart?\u201d \u201cWhat does Scripture say?\u201d \u201cWhat is true? What is untrue?\u201d \u201cWhat should be our response to a son or a daughter, who is asking those questions as well as a person in our church?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI hate to say it\u2014I sort of get excited, you know, about talking about those kind of questions because\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014you\u2019re excited for honesty. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You\u2019re excited when people don\u2019t put up a veneer, and they are willing to talk about real issues that they are facing. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cDon\u2019t hide. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cPlease don\u2019t hide, and let\u2019s talk,\u201d\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014you know? I hope I can be a representative of the heart of Jesus. You have to go back to Jesus, and back to His Word, to say, \u201cOkay; what does it say?\u201d and \u201cWhat does that mean for me?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We\u2019ve been having a good honest conversation this week with Rachel Gilson, who is joining us on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Hello, Rachel; welcome back. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Rachel:<\/strong> It has been honest, and I think it has been gospel-centered. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That\u2019s how we want it to be. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRachel is an author; she\u2019s a speaker. She provides theological guidance and oversight for all of us, who are a part of Cru<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, and has written a book that is part memoir and part, as I said, coaching manual for all of us in the culture to know, \u201cHow do we respond to the questions related to gender and sexuality in our friends\u2019 lives, in our kids\u2019 lives, in the lives of people we love in the church or outside the church?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHer book is called <em>Born Again This Way<\/em>; and it tells about your own experience with same-sex attraction, coming to Christ on the Yale campus, recognizing that you were going to have to put your sexual desires under the lordship of Christ if you were going to follow Christ. Ultimately, as we\u2019ve already talked about this week, you making the decision to marry a man and to now be the mother of\u2014is it one child or\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Rachel:<\/strong> \u2014one child. I want to be like an excellent college basketball player\u2014one and done. [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014one [daughter.] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRachel, tell us a little bit about how somebody, who in high school found yourself attracted\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Wait; wait; wait. I have to get into this; because I underlined and highlighted this in your book, because it\u2019s not something you read every day\u2014it says: \u201cIn 2007, I married a man; but it wasn\u2019t because I had fallen in love.\u201d That\u2019s not something you read every day; tell us about <em>that<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Rachel:<\/strong> Well, as a campus minister, I work with a lot of young college women. They kind of\u2014they get starry-eyed\u2014and they are like, \u201cTell me your love story!\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cOoh, you might be a little disappointed.\u201d [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And that\u2014because it\u2019s not typical\u2014it\u2019s not what you read, and it\u2019s not what our culture tells us is normal or should be normal. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Rachel:<\/strong> No; we\u2019re presented with the idea that romance is the on-ramp into marriage. I never felt romantic with men; I\u2019ve enjoyed the company of men, but that hadn\u2019t been an avenue. I happened to meet a young man named Andrew, who had a bad haircut and wore clothes that were a little too big; but he was really Jesus-centered and <em>really<\/em> delightful. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe started pursuing me, and this thing that was growing with Andrew really was <em>real<\/em>. I could tell: \u201cOur lives are centered in the same way. I really like him,\u201d\u2014I felt a lot of affection\u2014\u201cI think there\u2019s even some attraction here\u201d; but it felt kind of like a little flame that you have to cup your hands around to protect it. I thought, \u201cOh my goodness! Can I build a marriage on <em>that<\/em>?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, it drew me back to the Scriptures: \u201cWell, what does the Word say?\u201d I had to examine marriage again. What I saw as God\u2019s picture for marriage is that marriage does <em>one thing<\/em>: it is designed to explain\u2014in living, breathing pictures, around the world, over the course of history\u2014the gospel. It is a picture of God\u2019s relationship with His people. Part of that is faithfulness; part of that is sexual pleasure; part of that is procreation; part of that is male\/female\u2014and that you can have romance be a part of that picture\u2014but actually, you don\u2019t <em>need<\/em> romance to be a part of that picture. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMarriage isn\u2019t like a little quick weekend project\u2014like, \u201cI need to stain the deck\u201d; you know? It is a long-term building project\u2014like, \u201cI need to build a cathedral to worship the Lord.\u201d I think it was really good for me to actually soberly consider, \u201cDo Andrew and I have what it takes to build this partnership in the gospel, long-term?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHonestly, I kind of wish <em>more<\/em> of my students would have that kind of clarity as they sat down and considered what marriage is for instead of just being\/letting infatuation be the gateway into marriage, because it\u2019s a long-term thing. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Rachel, I just finished writing a book that has just been released called <em>Love Like You Mean It<\/em>; and it\u2019s 1 Corinthians 13 applied to marriage. It\u2019s exactly what you\u2019re saying\u2014it\u2019s saying, \u201cIf we approach this with the romantic comedy mentality\/with a pop song mentality, we\u2019re majoring on a minor part of the love relationship.\u201d Paul makes it clear\u2014under the inspiration of the Spirit, he puts hard words to what love is\u2014words like: patience, and kindness, and not self-seeking, and bearing all things, and hoping all things, and enduring all things. This is what we are signing up for when we stand and say, \u201cI will love, honor, and cherish you for the rest of my life.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Rachel:<\/strong> I\u2019m not sure how any husband decides to be a husband when they read Ephesians 5. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Rachel:<\/strong> It\u2019s like, \u201cOh, just love exactly like Christ did\u201d\u2014you know\u2014\u201cby <em>dying<\/em> to yourself.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> But what about <em>Andrew<\/em>? That had to be a little disconcerting to him\u2014it\u2019s not fireworks\u2014\u201cIs she attracted to me?\u201d What was <em>he<\/em> feeling? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; \u201cYou remind me of a little flame,\u201d\u2014not fireworks\u2014\u201cI\u2019m drawn to you like a little flame.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I\u2019m not sure how excited Dave would have been had I said, \u201cYes; I think there is a little something, maybe, there.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Rachel:<\/strong> Well, Andrew, luckily, is very secure as a human being. I remember trying to put him off when he first asked me out. He knew everything about my story before he even got involved, which I think was really important. He just looked at me very realistically; he was like, \u201cWell, Jesus has forgiven you; so how could I possibly hold that against you?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe thing about Andrew is that he loves Jesus just as much as I do, and he looks at everything through the gospel lens as well. I do think there have been times\u2014especially early in marriage, when you\u2019re still figuring out the sexual relationship\u2014so I think it\u2019s important that we talk about sex in marriage realistically because, actually, sex takes work. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> How much\u2014if you could be honest to say, how much did your past affect your sexual relationship in your marriage? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Rachel:<\/strong> You know, honestly, my sexual relationship in marriage has brought so much healing to my sexuality that it actually has nothing to do with my attractional patterns but has to do with some other major places, where I had experienced sexual brokenness. I had to realize, over time, \u201cOoh, my sexuality is tied into some things that are really unhelpful and really unbiblical\u201d; and actually, experiencing the safety and the joy in a committed sexual relationship with one person has been such a blessing to me. I\u2019ve actually experienced healing in kind of\u2014I\u2019m picturing like a wall with deep cracks\u2014like healing that gets poured deep down into those places; so for me, it\u2019s been a lot of joy. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think, too, as we think about our marriage\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> We\u2019re going to talk about our marriage now? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014yes; Dave and I have been married 40 years. Bob and Mary Ann just had 41 years for their anniversary. You know what?\u2014I\u2019m going to be honest\u2014it\u2019s not a big bonfire all the time; it seldom is, actually. [Laughter] Yet, that little flame that keeps going\u2014that has warmed my soul and continues to\u2014that steadfast love that Jesus has and the bond of Christ that we have together\u2014it\u2019s living for something bigger than <em>yourself<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Rachel:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Isn\u2019t that what we all need? Because when I\u2019m living for Dave, he will be <em>so<\/em> disappointed; because there is not a whole lot there; but if we\u2019re living on mission together\u2014and that\u2019s what it sounds like you and Andrew have\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Rachel:<\/strong> Our lives were oriented in the same direction. And you know, I was just reading Nancy Percy\u2019s book, <em>Love Thy Body<\/em>. She was reporting a statistic I\u2019ve seen other places, where it turns out the happiest people, sexually, are middle-aged, married Christians. I think there is something very realistic about saying, \u201cOh, sex doesn\u2019t have to be this movie scene all the time\u201d; and yet, it can still be a place of such intimacy, and joy, and promise, and connection. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Let\u2019s talk about, too: \u201cHow do we as a church\u201d\u2014there are so many blind spots that we carry\u2014\u201cHow do we lovingly help our friends that are same-sex attracted? What are the do\u2019s and don\u2019ts?\u201d I think we\u2019re walking on eggshells, so nobody will say anything in fear of hurting or offending. What do you think, Rachel? What are some steps that we can take in the church, as a body of Christ, but also as friends and even as parents? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Rachel:<\/strong> Yes; well, of course, some of our churches are in really different places. You know, you have some churches, where love and acceptance is really high; but knowledge of the Bible is really, really low. Then you have other churches, where knowledge of the Bible is really strong; but there is maybe insecurity about what having same-sex attracted people in the congregation would look like. Different churches are facing different realities as they come to the topic. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne of the number-one things we can do to love same-sex attracted people is just to listen. Let\u2019s say for a moment we\u2019re just talking about same-sex attracted people, who are disciples\/who are Christians. You just want to <em>listen<\/em> to their story; because many people, who experience same-sex attraction, grew up in the church and were wounded in some way by the church. It\u2019s really helpful for us to take the time to listen to the stories; sometimes, to apologize where necessary and to try to learn. Listening is such an <em>important<\/em> act of love. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen I think, too, another thing we can do is we can talk very honestly about whether a life of long-term singleness looks like a prison or looks like a place of thriving in our church community; because so many disciples, who experience same-sex attraction, will be called to long-term singleness. If singleness looks like the Sahara Desert, then we are not living up to what Jesus has talked about. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe said, very clearly, \u201cYou will leave fathers and mothers and children and lands for my sake, but you will receive a hundred times more, not just in the life to come, but now.\u201d The church is designed to be a family <em>now<\/em>\u2014and marrieds and singles\u2014we <em>need<\/em> each other; we need each other. Sometimes, the only view of singleness in the church has been, \u201cIn your early 20s, let\u2019s just try to figure out how to pair you off; because our only vision of the good life is the married life.\u201d Well, what do we say about Jesus Christ, Himself, who was an unmarried man, where that was <em>extremely<\/em> abnormal\u2014or to Paul? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think we need to <em>keep<\/em> the dignity of marriage and <em>recover<\/em> the dignity of singleness\u2014and have honest conversations with our children, with our young adults, with our older adults\u2014about how both of those life stages are a part of God\u2019s vision for the way that He is glorified on earth. I think, also, just being able to say, \u201cI experience same-sex attraction,\u201d and have that be okay in the church. We\u2019re not looking for a place to be celebrated, like, \u201cYay! You\u2019re so fantastic because you experience same-sex attraction\u201d; but how in the world can I get support for an issue in my life if I feel like I can\u2019t talk about it; right? If we practice speaking about all types of sexual temptation, as things that people really face, we\u2019ll create space for people to be open and honest. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Rachel, there is\u2014you know this\u2014a little bit of a debate among whether the desire\/the same-sex desire is something that will be perpetual\/a lifetime phenomenon or whether it ought to be\u2014the expectation ought to be that it\u2019s lessening over time as you grow in grace and in sanctification. What\u2019s your thinking on that? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Rachel:<\/strong> Sometimes, God comes in and completely removes a set of temptations to prove that He has all power in the universe. I know people whose attractions have been entirely changed, either immediately or slowly over time; I think that demonstrates God\u2019s power. There are also plenty of people, who have earnestly sought change, and haven\u2019t received it. A lot of those people have quoted back to me when Paul asked three times for the thorn in his flesh to be removed; and what God said is, \u201cYour weakness will show My strength; My grace is sufficient for you.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think, at other times, God allows same-sex attraction to remain. He allows temptations to remain because when I say, \u201cI\u2019m going to say, \u2018No,\u2019 to this very strong desire so that I can say, \u2018Yes,\u2019 to Jesus,\u201d what I am saying is: \u201cJesus is worth saying, \u2018Yes,\u2019 to.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s good. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Rachel:<\/strong> Maybe, it doesn\u2019t demonstrate power in the same way; but it demonstrates His <em>worth and His beauty<\/em>. I think He calls some Christians to be that kind of light in the world; because our culture thinks you are literally insane if you say, \u201cNo,\u201d to this. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Rachel:<\/strong> They\u2019ll tell me: \u201cYou\u2019re repressed,\u201d \u201cYou\u2019re homophobic,\u201d\u2014or these types of things\u2014I\u2019m saying, \u201cI\u2019m not any of those things. I\u2019ve <em>never<\/em> been repressed. What I am is in love with the God who made me.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That\u2019s good. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAs a mother of a six-year-old in a part of the country, where public schools are rapidly embracing a cultural view of sexuality,\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Rachel:<\/strong> My daughter\u2019s kindergarten teacher is a woman who is married to another woman. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014so how are you thinking about this as you think about raising a six-year-old and then a 16-year-old eventually? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Rachel:<\/strong> What we do is\u2014we just don\u2019t talk about it and hope it all resolves itself. [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s what we all want to do. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Rachel:<\/strong> Well, it\u2019s been a big challenge. I just want to be very clear that\u2014partially, I feel like I\u2019m flying blind; because I wasn\u2019t raised in the Christian household. I don\u2019t really have a lot of great examples to look to; so I\u2019m just trying to rely on God\u2019s Spirit, and God\u2019s Word, and God\u2019s people. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne of the things I want to do over and over again\u2014and I try to practice with my daughter\u2014is we make it clear that Christians are not better than non-Christians. Actually, we are <em>all<\/em>\u2014<em>all<\/em>\u2014<em>all<\/em> sinners in need of the grace and truth of Jesus; and that the first thing we want to see happen in someone\u2019s life is that they say, \u201cYes,\u201d to the gospel; because if you don\u2019t say, \u201cYes,\u201d to the gospel, well, what good is it to live up to the externals of religion if you don\u2019t have the <em>Person<\/em> who it is all about? I try to talk about that with my daughter all the time. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>Then I try to explain to her the <em>positive<\/em> vision for sexuality. I try to explain to her that husbands and wives are a picture of the gospel. Now, I\u2019ve been talking to her about this since she was two or three; basically, because I didn\u2019t know what to do. I figured if I just talked to her about sex really early, maybe I\u2019ll catch it before it becomes awkward. [Laughter] I do think it\u2019s brought some fruit. She does understand there is a major link between our bodies and procreation. Now, could she explain that as articulately as me?\u2014I don\u2019t think so\u2014but I think there is power and safety in being honest, because she\u2019s going to hear it on the playground. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>The youngest age of boys being exposed to pornography right now is nine. If I\u2019m waiting until after nine years old to talk about what sexuality is, I have lost the game. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And how did you explain her teacher being married to a woman of the same sex? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Rachel:<\/strong> She actually just found out pretty recently, because her teacher\u2019s wife gave birth to a child. My daughter came home: \u201cDid you know that she is married to a woman?\u201d \u201cOh, I did know.\u201d She was like, \u201cHow did they have a baby? How does that happen?\u201d We talked about: \u201cWell, you know that they can\u2019t,\u201d\u2014because she knew those two women couldn\u2019t take their bodies and make a baby. I was like, \u201cRight; so they had to go <em>outside<\/em> their marriage.\u201d She was kind of quickly like, \u201cIs that wrong?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI was like, \u201cRight; we understand that there is only one place where sexual expression\u201d\u2014I forget; she likes to refer to it as connecting bodies\u2014that\u2019s the phrase she\u2019s locked onto. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> It\u2019s a good one. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Rachel:<\/strong> It\u2019s a good one; right? So like: \u201cThere is only one place where God sanctions that; but we have to remember: \u2018Your teacher isn\u2019t a terrible person just because this is how she is living her life. Her <em>main<\/em> issue is that she needs the gospel.\u2019\u201d I mean, I love the quote Rosaria Butterfield has said, \u201cA non-Christian gay person\u2019s problem isn\u2019t that they are gay; it\u2019s their <em>unbelief<\/em>.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You know, Rachel, none of us in this room were ever having conversations with our six-year-olds about the things you\u2019re having to have conversations with your six-year-old about. I applaud <em>you<\/em> and the moms and dads, who are in the middle of a cultural tsunami, and trying to hang on for dear life and grasp for air in the process. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Rachel:<\/strong> I think there is a lot of reason why parents of my age, with kids who are young, we\u2019re feeling overwhelmed\/we\u2019re feeling afraid; because we haven\u2019t really had to do this in this culture. However, the gospel shines <em>extremely<\/em> bright in the darkness. The gospel is the power of salvation for everyone who believes, and it actually makes the best sense of the world. If we equip our children with a worldview that actually explains who we are, what our bodies are for, and there is Someone who made us and loves us, it is actually more compelling than everything else that is happening in the world outside. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> This is not an easy book to write; you have been incredibly vulnerable and real. That takes incredible courage, knowing that there are going to be people who don\u2019t agree with you. You are a grace-giver and a truth-teller in a beautiful way. Thank you! This helps us, and we need this in a time, where we are pointing people to Jesus. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Rachel:<\/strong> Well, if any of that\u2019s true, to Him be the glory. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We believe it is true. Again, thank you for being with us. We want to let our listeners know how they can get a copy of Rachel\u2019s book; it\u2019s called <em>Born Again This Way<\/em>. We\u2019ve got copies in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. I\u2019d encourage you to get it, and to read it, and to share it with others. Go online to FamilyLifeToday.com to get your copy, or call 1-800-FL-TODAY. Again, the title of Rachel\u2019s book, <em>Born Again This Way: Coming Out, Coming to Faith, and What Comes Next<\/em>. Order online at FamilyLifeToday.com, or call 1-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, today is the last day of the week. It\u2019s the last day I have to encourage you to join the <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Legacy Partner team. I\u2019ve mentioned this earlier this week; we\u2019ve had some friends of the ministry who came to us, knowing that we need some new families to join with us to be monthly contributors to the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, to provide the financial footing that makes this program possible. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>They have agreed that they will match every donation that we receive from a new Legacy Partner\u2014somebody who signs on this week\u2014they\u2019ll match your donations for the next 12 months, dollar for dollar. You become a Legacy Partner and say, \u201cWe\u2019ll give $50 a month to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>\u201d; they are going to match that with an additional $50 a month every month for the next 12 months. That\u2019s a great opportunity for us\/a great opportunity for <em>you<\/em> for your giving to go even farther. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you sign on today, as a new Legacy Partner, we would like to say, \u201cThank you,\u201d by sending you, first of all, a copy of my new book, <em>Love Like You Mean It<\/em>. It\u2019s about what the Bible says real love in a marriage should look like. Then we\u2019re going to send you three episodes of the new TV show, <em>Slugs &amp; Bugs<\/em>, featuring Randall Goodgame. Randall was a guest with us earlier this week. It\u2019s a great kids\u2019 program for your children or for your grandchildren. Finally, we\u2019ll send you a gift card that you can use to cover the registration costs for a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> marriage getaway. That card is good anytime once the getaways are back happening\u2014once we get the \u201cAll clear,\u201d and can start hosting them again. You can use the getaway for yourself, or you can pass it along to a friend. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAll three of those items come to you when you become a <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Legacy Partner, and you can do that easily. You can sign up, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY. Let me encourage you to do it today so that your donations will be doubled for the next 12 months. Thanks, in advance, for joining the Legacy Partner team. We appreciate you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWith that, we have to wrap things up for today. Thanks for being with us. Hope you have a great weekend. Hope you and your family are able, one way or another, to worship together with your local church this weekend. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI hope you can join us back on Monday when we\u2019re going to talk about how important it is for you, as parents, not just to be praying <em>for<\/em> your children as they head back to school this year, but to be praying <em>with<\/em> them as they head to school this year. Holly Melton will be here to talk about how she\u2019s been doing that with her kids, and she\u2019s got some great ideas for all of us, as moms and dads. I hope you can tune in for that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a CruMinistry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2020 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/306374","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=306374"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=306374"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=306374"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=306374"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=306374"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=306374"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=306374"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}