{"id":306343,"date":"2020-08-20T07:00:05","date_gmt":"2020-08-20T11:00:05","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/wrestling-with-your-doubts\/"},"modified":"2020-08-20T07:00:05","modified_gmt":"2020-08-20T11:00:05","slug":"wrestling-with-your-doubts","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/wrestling-with-your-doubts\/","title":{"rendered":"Wrestling With Your Doubts"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Shelby Abbott says that doubt is different than unbelief, and while we should not fear doubt, neither should we make it a badge of honor.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2020-08-20.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:26:17","filesize":"24.07M","filesize_raw":"25238000","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2822,2806,2855],"tags":[4299],"podcast_series":[8384],"cwp_profile":[3552],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-306343","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-growing-in-your-faith","category-spiritual-development","category-teens","tag-faith","podcast_series-doubtless","cwp_profile-shelby-abbott","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/306343\/wrestling-with-your-doubts","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/306343\/wrestling-with-your-doubts","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"pCqFB3NLUw\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/wrestling-with-your-doubts\/\">Wrestling With Your Doubts<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/wrestling-with-your-doubts\/embed\/#?secret=pCqFB3NLUw\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Wrestling With Your Doubts&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"pCqFB3NLUw\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2020-08-20.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2020-08-20.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Bob: <\/strong>How is it that young people, who were rock solid about their faith when they were in youth group in high school, wind up, headed to a university, and starting to have doubts? Shelby Abbott explains.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shelby<\/strong>: They sit in class, and they hear from Religion 101 professor, and they've never really thought about their faith on their own. Their professor just blows holes in everything that they thought was true about Christianity. And then they go, \u201cWell, if my professor, who is much smarter than me, doesn't believe it, maybe it's not true.\u201d And then they don't take the time to actually research it themselves.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Thursday, August 20<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I'm Bob Lepine. You\u2019ll find us online at FamilyLifeToday.com. All of us are going to experience challenges to our faith and have seasons where we deal with doubt, so what do we do when that happens? And as parents, how do we help our children deal with their doubts? We'll talk more about that today. Stay with us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. Have you wrestled with doubt in your walk with Jesus? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Did you hear my wife laugh?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> No. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> She laughed! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Why did you laugh?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Because this is a topic that is very relevant to Dave because, yes, doubt has been a big part of his faith.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>More of his than yours?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes. I don't really wrestle with it, but Dave has <em>always<\/em> wrestled with it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I've told my kids: \u201cDoubt is not something that we should fear; you're going to have days where you walk and you go, \u2018Is this for real?\u2014the whole God-thing.\u2019\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>\u2014which, that alone, Bob\u2014what a <em>great<\/em> conversation to have with your kids.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, I've said, \u201cWhen I have that\u2014when I'm driving along, and I think to myself: \u201cOkay; is it a crutch? Do I need something to prop myself up? Is this because I was born in America?\u201d\u2014all of those kinds of things. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd then I look at a tree; and I go, \u201cWe have some pretty amazing technological development in our world, and we still don't know how to make a tree. A tree is pretty basic, but we can't make one of those\u2014even our best scientists don't know how to make a tree.\u201d That re-calibrates me to go, \u201cOkay; when they figure out how to make trees, then my faith will be shaken; but for now, I'm okay with where I am; because I think there's got to be a God, who knows more than we do, who knows how to make trees.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> We were on staff with Cru in our second year\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, yes. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u2014so actually married two years as well. I'm a campus minister\u2014Athletes in Action\u2014going to the University of Nebraska campus. I wake up one day\u2014and again, Ann doesn't struggle with this\u2014so she looked at me like, \u201cWhat?\u201d I go, \u201cWhat are we doing?\u201d She says, \u201cWhat are you talking about?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cWe just threw our lives away for a lie.\u201d She goes, \u201cWhat?!\u201d \u201cHow do we know this stuff's true? I gave my life to Christ four years ago. I never did any research. This whole thing\u2014what are we doing with our lives?\u201d She just looks at me and she goes, \u201cYou'd better find out because I know your brain. You can't live a lie, so you'd better find out.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI went on a journey for the <em>substance<\/em> of it. I welcome doubt; I think doubt's a really healthy thing, because there are answers that are legit; but you've got to go get them. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>One of the things that's interesting in this culture today is that there are some, who are turning doubt almost into a virtue,\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014like\u201d \u201cReal Christians have to doubt; and the more you doubt, maybe the more authentic your faith is.\u201d That, now, starts to get a little dangerous. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe've got a friend, who is joining us again on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>; and we're happy to have him back. Shelby Abbott is here with us. Shelby, welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shelby: <\/strong>Thanks for having me on again. It's good to be with you guys. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Shelby is an author\/a speaker. He's been involved with Cru\u2014how many years have you been with Cru?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shelby: <\/strong>This summer is 21 years. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Wow; so he's been involved\u2014working with college students\/been involved in campus ministry\u2014has written a number of books, including a book called <em>Pressure Point<\/em> and one called<em> I'm a Tool,<\/em> that's all about dating. And he's got a brand-new book that's come out that addresses this issue of doubt. The book is called <em>DoubtLess<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tShelby, talk about your own journey with doubt. Is it something that has been an issue for you? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shelby: <\/strong>Yes; it's been an issue for me, but maybe not in the way it would normally come about with an average believer. It's never really been that much of an intellectual thing with me; it's really been more about my suffering and how my suffering has dictated some of my thinking when it comes to: \u201cWhat is God doing?\u201d \u201cIs He really in control?\u201d \u201cDoes He care?\u201d \u201cDoes He love me?\u201d Then, leading to: \u201cIs He all powerful?\u201d \u201cCan He actually do the stuff that He says He can do?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I was reading something over the weekend about a pastor\u2014that's the issue that derailed him\/led him away from the faith\u2014this whole issue of: \u201cIf an all-powerful, all-loving God exists, then why is there suffering at the level there is in the world?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou were wrestling with it with suffering in your own life, but it didn't derail you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shelby:<\/strong> No; I think it's because, when suffering came around for me, I had already been a Christian for about 15 years. I had deep roots, and being on staff with Cru, I tried\u00a0 to intentionally surround myself with people\u2014who I could learn from and that would pour into me well\u2014that I could wrestle with these in a verbal way and not keep them internal. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd then kind of live my life authentically around people, who have traveled the road ahead of me, both like maybe one stage ahead and then multiple stages ahead. I've tried to have, consistently, inject people into my life who have wrestled with the same things I've wrestled with, who have wisdom in ways that I would never have wisdom. And then I just bury my nose in the Scriptures all the time to try to make sure that that foundation is well attended to. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBecause of that, I never really got to a point where I was like: \u201cLet me just pitch this whole thing.\u201d I've wondered, similar to what you guys were talking about, but mine was really more like: \u201cIf God is good, then why would this happen?\u201d I didn't really wrestle with: \u201c\u2026if God is there.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Shelby, can you share a little bit of what that suffering looked like?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shelby: <\/strong>Yes; in 2009, my wife and I ran a 10-mile race\u2014this is pre-kids\u2014ran a 10-mile race. That was the proverbially straw that broke the camel's back; I had a herniated disc in my lower back that started putting pressure on my sciatic nerve, causing this radiating pain down my leg on a consistent basis. I did everything that I could have done without getting surgery and then I eventually found myself sitting across the table from the top neurosurgeon at Penn Medicine. He said, \u201cYou know, looking at your MRI, I just don't see anything here that I could go in and do that would help you.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAt that moment, I was just like, \u201cGod, You've got to do something here.\u201d That was ten years after the initial injury that happened. I've learned a ton in the process, and my faith has been galvanized in ways that it just never was before. I've looked back at the suffering and thanked God for it, because it's been a gift to me that my roots are even stronger in Him now than they were before\u2014to the point that I felt like I had the audacity to write a book about it. If you don't actually struggle with the things that you're writing about, what's the point? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Talk about what you're seeing on the college campus as you work with students today, because you've observed what I was talking about; haven't you?\u2014where doubt is almost like a badge of honor these days?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shelby: <\/strong>Yes; it is. The culture celebrates it in a way that it's cool to do so. The genesis of this book was a combination of a few things. My brother-in-law\u2014my wife's youngest brother, who is very dear to me\u2014ended up having a two-year long battle with doubt that ended with him walking away from the faith. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat was very, very troubling to me. I started talking about it with a friend of mine\/an older mentor friend of mine; and he was like, \u201cYou need to write about this.\u201d Then right at the same time\u2014there's a summer mission that my wife and I run with Cru\u2014about three years ago, two students came to me at the end of week one of ten weeks on a summer mission and said, \u201cHey, we want to ask you a few questions.\u201d They were very honest about what they were struggling with when it came to their doubts. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBecause of that, I was like: \u201cI need to look into this a little bit more; because they are just a small subset of the college campus that is wrestling with these things,\u201d and \u201cWe've got to get it out into the open; because if you're quiet about this, just like any other thing that you're quiet about, it will fester and grow; and it will eventually lead to where my brother-in-law ended up going to, which is pitching the faith.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>So as you look at\u2014even the title of your book\u2014are you trying to help people doubt less in their faith and taking them on a journey to do that? What was the idea? The subtitle is, obviously: [<em>Because<\/em>]<em> Faith Is Hard<\/em>, and we understand that. But what do you mean by <em>DoubtLess<\/em>?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shelby: <\/strong>Yes; it's a play on words a little bit. It's really an interesting thing, because you have to embrace it in order to get to a different side of it. When you get to that other side, you're able to doubt less. It's pronounced \u201cDoubt Less Because Faith Is Hard.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMy encouragement in the book is to do the opposite of what we're <em>tempted<\/em> to do in the Christian community, which is not talk about it; because we don't want to be labeled as someone who's a troublemaker; or we're afraid to mention it; or we're afraid, if we do mention it, we're going to be someone's project, and they're going to try to argue us back into the faith; or they're going to try to argue away some of the doubts that we're having.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMy whole process with this is like: \u201cHey, let me lean into this in a way that I'm coming around people, and they're helping me through this process; so that, as I doubt\u2014just like a muscle, it gets stronger, and stronger, and stronger the more you work it out\u2014putting the assumption that God is there, that He wants me to run after Him, that He will be there for me as I try to find Him in the search. He's always there; and as a result, my muscle will be stronger at the end; so I will be able to doubt less in the future.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> This is interesting. I don't know about you, Bob\u2014or even Ann\u2014the church I grew up in, as a kid\u2014they never said this\u2014I would have caught\/I think everybody would have caught: \u201cDoubt is sin,\u201d\u2014you know\u2014\u201cIt's sin.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou open the book in your chapter, saying, \u201cDoubt is biblical, and it's common.\u201d As a young boy, I was like\/like we all had questions. You weren't even allowed to ask a <em>question<\/em>\u2014just receive it\/believe it\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>\u2014without being judged, you mean. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Nobody reads the story of doubting Thomas in the Bible and goes, \u201cMan, that's who I want to be. [Laughter] I want to be a guy like <em>that<\/em>, who goes to Jesus and says, \u2018Give me better evidence\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014\u201c\u2019than You just standing here in front of me.\u2019\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHow is doubt biblical, Shelby?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shelby: <\/strong>Yes, there's tons of examples of it. The Psalms are a great place to go to discover the raw reality of what someone's going through and not really believing the best in God. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne of the major characters that I decided to use, at least in the book\u2014instead of running straight to doubting Thomas, which I do talk about him\u2014I thought John the Baptist was a really good example; because if you think about who John the Baptist was: he was the precursor to the Messiah; he was the one who leapt in the womb when he was close to Jesus; he was the one who pointed Jesus out and said, \u201cBehold the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world\u201d; and he <em>baptized<\/em> Jesus.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen he did, literally, God's voice from heaven said, \u201cThis is My Son.\u201d Yet at the end of his life\u2014he's in prison\u2014and he sends two of his disciples to Jesus and says, \u201cGo ask Jesus if He's the One or we should be waiting for another.\u201d And it's like: \u201cReally? You heard God's voice in the sky; you saw the Holy Spirit descend on Him; and you're still doubting?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat does that tell me? That tells me that, if God would give me the \u201cproof\u201d today by showing up in the sky, wearing a flashing jersey that says, \u201cI am Jesus; worship Me,\u201d I'd still probably doubt; I'd still do that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI see these examples of these people\/these characters in the Scriptures. I see the text itself calling into question whether or not God is real, if He's there, if Jesus was who He says He was. I'm like, \u201cI'm in good biblical company. This is really good.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Of course, you turn to the Book of James; and here's James saying, \u201cDon't be like those who doubt\u201d; so there's this rebuke against doubting in James; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shelby: <\/strong>That's one of the beautiful things about Scripture is that you can't just pull quotes here, and here, and here to make it want you want it to say, which is what people do all the time. You have to look at the entirety of Scripture and see examples of this. It's important to look at the Scriptures as a whole. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd you know, even at the Ascension, in Matthew 28\u2014the famous Great Commission\u2014His disciples are there; and it says this one little phrase: \u201c\u2026but some doubted.\u201d \u201c\u2026but some doubted,\u201d\u2014seriously, this is after the resurrection! This is after the resurrection\u2014you know, some doubted still in those moments. It's like: \u201cOkay; Jesus is still patient with us; He cares about us.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDoubt is not the same thing as unbelief; it's not. That's like saying temptation is the same thing as sin; it's not. Doubt is one of those things that can\u2014you know, I ripped this from Tim Keller\u2014it acts like an inoculation almost. If you're doubting, your body is able to create antibodies against it so, when life smacks you in the face\u2014which it will\u2014you're able to not doubt, and you're a lot stronger in the situation; because you've already been inoculated. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>One of the things I thought was interesting, when you were talking about John the Baptist\u2014one of the things that always stuck out to me about John the Baptist\u2014it says he was born with the power of the Holy Spirit in him; and <em>yet<\/em>, he still doubted. Even with the disciples, I can think, \u201cWell, they didn't have the Holy Spirit yet; that's why they were doubting.\u201d And yet, even when we have the power of the Spirit, who helps us discern, we can still have some of that doubt. I feel like that's kind of encouraging. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd one of the things that you talked about, too\u2014which I thought was interesting\u2014you talked about feeding your faith, not your doubts. And even now, like: \u201cOh, that's so good! Because once we get in this doubting kind of space, it's easy to keep going there instead of feeding your faith.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes; walk us through, if somebody listening is going, \u201cI'm wrestling with doubts.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>What's your prescription for them? How do they wrestle well? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shelby: <\/strong>I think that one of the temptations, as a Christian, when we find that people <em>are<\/em> wrestling with doubts, is to give them content in order to <em>negate<\/em> the fact that they are doubting. I've found, especially when you're dealing with people\u2014which is what ministry is\u2014presence is as important, if not more so, than content. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis book is not meant to be an apologetic, per se; there's plenty of other people who have written way better stuff than I have about that kind of thing. Although, I do go into it a little bit with the resurrection; but in general, I think it's an emotional thing\u2014it's a heart thing; it's a communal thing. If you talk about\u2014for example, what you mentioned, Ann: \u201cFeeding your faith and not your doubts,\u201d\u2014I think young people, at least, have the attraction to doubt.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>So then, you're on YouTube<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, watching all the YouTube stuff.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shelby: <\/strong>Yes; and you can find anything on YouTube that will help reinforce your already pre-existing notions about anything; it's there. And so you start to roll that over in your mind. If you remain silent about it, you're going to external sources like YouTube, or reading books, or you're listening to podcasts that reinforce what your doubts are. It just pushes further, and further, and further. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMy exhortation to students is like: \u201cInstead of feeding your doubts, and allowing your faith to starve; why don't you feed your faith, and allow your doubts to starve?\u201d It seems a little bit counterintuitive to think and feel that way, but it's obviously the way \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tthat we should be going\u2014putting the weight of our faith into Jesus during the process of the fact that we're not sure He's going to prop us up. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And I've talked with people for years and said: \u201cThere is going to be a gap between what evidence will support and the ultimate questions you're wrestling with in life. Whatever it is you're wrestling with: \u2018Where did I come from?\u2019 \u2018Why am I here?\u2019 \u2018What happens when I die?\u2019\u2014these kind of big metaphysical questions\u2014to get to an answer, if you're looking for evidence that will be an airtight case that is irrefutable, nobody is ever going to find that.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere's always going to be a gap between what the evidence supports and the conclusion you come to. That gap is the faith gap that we've got to step into. You're either going to step into that and say, \u201cWell, I'm going to believe what the culture says,\u201d or \u201c\u2026what the Bible says. I'm going to fill in the gap, between the evidence and the conclusion, with what I choose to fill it in with.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shelby: <\/strong>Yes; and the beautiful thing about Christianity, among many other beautiful things, is that there's never going to be an airtight argument for Christianity. God didn't give us an airtight argument; he gave us an airtight person, and so that's what we need to concentrate on and lean into in the whole process. There's great evidence for the resurrection. There's great evidence for the historicity of the Bible and the people in the Bible\u2014all that kind of stuff\u2014it's there; it's just that you've got to be willing. This is one of my things with younger people: \u201cYou've got to be willing to <em>look<\/em> for it.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think they sit in class, and they hear from a Religion 101 professor, and they've never really thought about their faith on their own. Their professor just blows holes in everything they thought was true about Christianity. And then they go, \u201cWell, if my professor, who is much smarter than me, doesn't believe it, maybe it's not true.\u201d And then they don't take the time to actually research it themselves.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI'm encouraging people to research it themselves\/to look for the evidence; there is great evidence for the Christian faith. Don't be lazy about it; be intentional; lean into it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd trust that God is going to provide for you in the process of seeking after Him, because He will. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Dave, as a pastor, you've seen people in your churchdoubt. Some have wound up in a stronger place and some have wound up spinning out. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>How have you approached that as people have come to you? What would be the approach you would take?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I think what Shelby said earlier is <em>so<\/em> pivotal. I didn't, initially, even understand it; but presence is so important. You know, I've always said, \u201cIt's not the size of your faith that matters; it's the object.\u201d You can have mustard seed faith, but if you have the right object\u2014I think, like Shelby said, the evidence for the historicity of the Bible\/the evidence of the resurrection is so solid\u2014the object is solid; but you still have to have faith. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI still think most skeptics and most people that struggle with doubt\u2014and I have done that\u2014they want somebody\/they need somebody to walk beside them and love them. But if you're not tender\u2014I don't even think it's doubt that they're wrestling with; they don't like the person that they're walking beside\u2014and they'll use that to say, \u201cYes, I don't believe this is true.\u201d I think it's deeper than that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> It's interesting\u2014I just got a text from a good friend, who lost her 30-some-year-old daughter: \u201cIn church, we were singing this song,\u201d\u2014she said\u2014\u201c<em>You're Never Going to Let Me Down<\/em> [Ann sings a phrase from the song].\u201d And she said, \u201cI couldn't sing that song.\u201d And I said, \u201cI get it.\u201d And she's doubting; she goes, \u201cI'm so struggling right now.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI lost my sister when my sister was 45. I'm telling you\u2014what you said, Shelby, was so true\u2014I had that choice in that moment to feed my faith or to feed my doubts. As you said, Dave, when I connected with other followers of Christ, saying, \u201cI'm really struggling.\u201d I think it's so important for us to continue to always be building on that faith\u2014to saturate ourselves with God's Word\/to be in community with other people. When we can't even stand up, they're holding us up, praying for us. But also, to be able to be vulnerable and real, and have people say, \u201cYes; I get it. Let me pray for you.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>What I love about your book is that it's the kind of book that someone, who is wrestling with doubt, can read to help them know how to address that. It's also a book that moms and dads can be reading to help them understand the doubts that their kids are going to go through\/that their college kids are bombarded with today to help them know: \u201cHow do I walk well alongside my children when they are doubting?\u201d\u2014or help them walk well alongside their friends, who are doubting. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe book Shelby has written is called <em>DoubtLess: Because Faith Is Hard<\/em>. It's brand new; it's just out this week. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com to get a copy of the book, <em>DoubtLess<\/em>; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY. Again, our website is FamilyLifeToday.com; you can order from us online. Or you can call to order the book,<em> DoubtLess<\/em>, by Shelby Abbott; the number to call is 1-800-358-6329\u2014that's 1-800-\u201dF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201c TODAY.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, we are aware that this issue of helping our kids stay on track, spiritually, is the number-one issue moms and dads are losing sleep over these days. It's the issue that matters most to us as followers of Christ. That's what we're trying to address every day on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>\u2014the very real, very practical issues that we face in our marriage relationship, in our parenting, our extended family relationships.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>exists to effectively develop godly marriages and families. We believe that marriages and families are an essential part of a healthy society. When marriages and families are not doing well, the society is not doing well. So if you want to change the world, you change it one home at a time. We are so grateful for those of you who share that vision with us\u2014those of you who made today's program possible by being supporters of this ministry and making donations in the past.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you can help with a donation today, we'd love to say, \u201cThank you,\u201d by sending you a copy of my new book, which is called <em>Love Like You Mean It<\/em>. It's a book for married couples to help us apply the definition of love from 1 Corinthians 13 and build a stronger more durable marriage, because it's built on a solid foundation of what real love should look like in marriage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe book is our thank-you gift to you when you make a donation today to support the ongoing work of <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em> You can donate, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to donate. We're grateful for your past support and your ongoing support of this ministry. We really appreciate you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe hope you can join us, again, tomorrow. We want to talk about what we can do, as parents, to have healthy conversations with our children about their doubts\u2014how to invite them into dialogue about those things. Shelby Abbott will join us, again, tomorrow. I hope you can tune in as well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2020 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:26:17"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["24.07M"],"filesize_raw":["25238000"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-306343.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-306343.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom 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Abbott says that doubt is different than unbelief, and while we should not fear doubt, neither should we make it a badge of honor.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2020-08-20.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>How is it that young people, who were rock solid about their faith when they were in youth group in high school, wind up, headed to a university, and starting to have doubts? Shelby Abbott explains.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shelby<\/strong>: They sit in class, and they hear from Religion 101 professor, and they've never really thought about their faith on their own. Their professor just blows holes in everything that they thought was true about Christianity. And then they go, \u201cWell, if my professor, who is much smarter than me, doesn't believe it, maybe it's not true.\u201d And then they don't take the time to actually research it themselves.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Thursday, August 20<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I'm Bob Lepine. You\u2019ll find us online at FamilyLifeToday.com. All of us are going to experience challenges to our faith and have seasons where we deal with doubt, so what do we do when that happens? And as parents, how do we help our children deal with their doubts? We'll talk more about that today. Stay with us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. Have you wrestled with doubt in your walk with Jesus? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Did you hear my wife laugh?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> No. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> She laughed! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Why did you laugh?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Because this is a topic that is very relevant to Dave because, yes, doubt has been a big part of his faith.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>More of his than yours?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes. I don't really wrestle with it, but Dave has <em>always<\/em> wrestled with it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I've told my kids: \u201cDoubt is not something that we should fear; you're going to have days where you walk and you go, \u2018Is this for real?\u2014the whole God-thing.\u2019\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>\u2014which, that alone, Bob\u2014what a <em>great<\/em> conversation to have with your kids.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, I've said, \u201cWhen I have that\u2014when I'm driving along, and I think to myself: \u201cOkay; is it a crutch? Do I need something to prop myself up? Is this because I was born in America?\u201d\u2014all of those kinds of things. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd then I look at a tree; and I go, \u201cWe have some pretty amazing technological development in our world, and we still don't know how to make a tree. A tree is pretty basic, but we can't make one of those\u2014even our best scientists don't know how to make a tree.\u201d That re-calibrates me to go, \u201cOkay; when they figure out how to make trees, then my faith will be shaken; but for now, I'm okay with where I am; because I think there's got to be a God, who knows more than we do, who knows how to make trees.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> We were on staff with Cru in our second year\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, yes. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u2014so actually married two years as well. I'm a campus minister\u2014Athletes in Action\u2014going to the University of Nebraska campus. I wake up one day\u2014and again, Ann doesn't struggle with this\u2014so she looked at me like, \u201cWhat?\u201d I go, \u201cWhat are we doing?\u201d She says, \u201cWhat are you talking about?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u201cWe just threw our lives away for a lie.\u201d She goes, \u201cWhat?!\u201d \u201cHow do we know this stuff's true? I gave my life to Christ four years ago. I never did any research. This whole thing\u2014what are we doing with our lives?\u201d She just looks at me and she goes, \u201cYou'd better find out because I know your brain. You can't live a lie, so you'd better find out.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI went on a journey for the <em>substance<\/em> of it. I welcome doubt; I think doubt's a really healthy thing, because there are answers that are legit; but you've got to go get them. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>One of the things that's interesting in this culture today is that there are some, who are turning doubt almost into a virtue,\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014like\u201d \u201cReal Christians have to doubt; and the more you doubt, maybe the more authentic your faith is.\u201d That, now, starts to get a little dangerous. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe've got a friend, who is joining us again on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>; and we're happy to have him back. Shelby Abbott is here with us. Shelby, welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shelby: <\/strong>Thanks for having me on again. It's good to be with you guys. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Shelby is an author\/a speaker. He's been involved with Cru\u2014how many years have you been with Cru?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shelby: <\/strong>This summer is 21 years. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Wow; so he's been involved\u2014working with college students\/been involved in campus ministry\u2014has written a number of books, including a book called <em>Pressure Point<\/em> and one called<em> I'm a Tool,<\/em> that's all about dating. And he's got a brand-new book that's come out that addresses this issue of doubt. The book is called <em>DoubtLess<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tShelby, talk about your own journey with doubt. Is it something that has been an issue for you? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shelby: <\/strong>Yes; it's been an issue for me, but maybe not in the way it would normally come about with an average believer. It's never really been that much of an intellectual thing with me; it's really been more about my suffering and how my suffering has dictated some of my thinking when it comes to: \u201cWhat is God doing?\u201d \u201cIs He really in control?\u201d \u201cDoes He care?\u201d \u201cDoes He love me?\u201d Then, leading to: \u201cIs He all powerful?\u201d \u201cCan He actually do the stuff that He says He can do?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I was reading something over the weekend about a pastor\u2014that's the issue that derailed him\/led him away from the faith\u2014this whole issue of: \u201cIf an all-powerful, all-loving God exists, then why is there suffering at the level there is in the world?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou were wrestling with it with suffering in your own life, but it didn't derail you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shelby:<\/strong> No; I think it's because, when suffering came around for me, I had already been a Christian for about 15 years. I had deep roots, and being on staff with Cru, I tried\u00a0 to intentionally surround myself with people\u2014who I could learn from and that would pour into me well\u2014that I could wrestle with these in a verbal way and not keep them internal. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd then kind of live my life authentically around people, who have traveled the road ahead of me, both like maybe one stage ahead and then multiple stages ahead. I've tried to have, consistently, inject people into my life who have wrestled with the same things I've wrestled with, who have wisdom in ways that I would never have wisdom. And then I just bury my nose in the Scriptures all the time to try to make sure that that foundation is well attended to. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBecause of that, I never really got to a point where I was like: \u201cLet me just pitch this whole thing.\u201d I've wondered, similar to what you guys were talking about, but mine was really more like: \u201cIf God is good, then why would this happen?\u201d I didn't really wrestle with: \u201c\u2026if God is there.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Shelby, can you share a little bit of what that suffering looked like?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shelby: <\/strong>Yes; in 2009, my wife and I ran a 10-mile race\u2014this is pre-kids\u2014ran a 10-mile race. That was the proverbially straw that broke the camel's back; I had a herniated disc in my lower back that started putting pressure on my sciatic nerve, causing this radiating pain down my leg on a consistent basis. I did everything that I could have done without getting surgery and then I eventually found myself sitting across the table from the top neurosurgeon at Penn Medicine. He said, \u201cYou know, looking at your MRI, I just don't see anything here that I could go in and do that would help you.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAt that moment, I was just like, \u201cGod, You've got to do something here.\u201d That was ten years after the initial injury that happened. I've learned a ton in the process, and my faith has been galvanized in ways that it just never was before. I've looked back at the suffering and thanked God for it, because it's been a gift to me that my roots are even stronger in Him now than they were before\u2014to the point that I felt like I had the audacity to write a book about it. If you don't actually struggle with the things that you're writing about, what's the point? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Talk about what you're seeing on the college campus as you work with students today, because you've observed what I was talking about; haven't you?\u2014where doubt is almost like a badge of honor these days?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shelby: <\/strong>Yes; it is. The culture celebrates it in a way that it's cool to do so. The genesis of this book was a combination of a few things. My brother-in-law\u2014my wife's youngest brother, who is very dear to me\u2014ended up having a two-year long battle with doubt that ended with him walking away from the faith. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat was very, very troubling to me. I started talking about it with a friend of mine\/an older mentor friend of mine; and he was like, \u201cYou need to write about this.\u201d Then right at the same time\u2014there's a summer mission that my wife and I run with Cru\u2014about three years ago, two students came to me at the end of week one of ten weeks on a summer mission and said, \u201cHey, we want to ask you a few questions.\u201d They were very honest about what they were struggling with when it came to their doubts. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBecause of that, I was like: \u201cI need to look into this a little bit more; because they are just a small subset of the college campus that is wrestling with these things,\u201d and \u201cWe've got to get it out into the open; because if you're quiet about this, just like any other thing that you're quiet about, it will fester and grow; and it will eventually lead to where my brother-in-law ended up going to, which is pitching the faith.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>So as you look at\u2014even the title of your book\u2014are you trying to help people doubt less in their faith and taking them on a journey to do that? What was the idea? The subtitle is, obviously: [<em>Because<\/em>]<em> Faith Is Hard<\/em>, and we understand that. But what do you mean by <em>DoubtLess<\/em>?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shelby: <\/strong>Yes; it's a play on words a little bit. It's really an interesting thing, because you have to embrace it in order to get to a different side of it. When you get to that other side, you're able to doubt less. It's pronounced \u201cDoubt Less Because Faith Is Hard.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMy encouragement in the book is to do the opposite of what we're <em>tempted<\/em> to do in the Christian community, which is not talk about it; because we don't want to be labeled as someone who's a troublemaker; or we're afraid to mention it; or we're afraid, if we do mention it, we're going to be someone's project, and they're going to try to argue us back into the faith; or they're going to try to argue away some of the doubts that we're having.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMy whole process with this is like: \u201cHey, let me lean into this in a way that I'm coming around people, and they're helping me through this process; so that, as I doubt\u2014just like a muscle, it gets stronger, and stronger, and stronger the more you work it out\u2014putting the assumption that God is there, that He wants me to run after Him, that He will be there for me as I try to find Him in the search. He's always there; and as a result, my muscle will be stronger at the end; so I will be able to doubt less in the future.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> This is interesting. I don't know about you, Bob\u2014or even Ann\u2014the church I grew up in, as a kid\u2014they never said this\u2014I would have caught\/I think everybody would have caught: \u201cDoubt is sin,\u201d\u2014you know\u2014\u201cIt's sin.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou open the book in your chapter, saying, \u201cDoubt is biblical, and it's common.\u201d As a young boy, I was like\/like we all had questions. You weren't even allowed to ask a <em>question<\/em>\u2014just receive it\/believe it\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>\u2014without being judged, you mean. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Nobody reads the story of doubting Thomas in the Bible and goes, \u201cMan, that's who I want to be. [Laughter] I want to be a guy like <em>that<\/em>, who goes to Jesus and says, \u2018Give me better evidence\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014\u201c\u2019than You just standing here in front of me.\u2019\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHow is doubt biblical, Shelby?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shelby: <\/strong>Yes, there's tons of examples of it. The Psalms are a great place to go to discover the raw reality of what someone's going through and not really believing the best in God. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne of the major characters that I decided to use, at least in the book\u2014instead of running straight to doubting Thomas, which I do talk about him\u2014I thought John the Baptist was a really good example; because if you think about who John the Baptist was: he was the precursor to the Messiah; he was the one who leapt in the womb when he was close to Jesus; he was the one who pointed Jesus out and said, \u201cBehold the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world\u201d; and he <em>baptized<\/em> Jesus.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen he did, literally, God's voice from heaven said, \u201cThis is My Son.\u201d Yet at the end of his life\u2014he's in prison\u2014and he sends two of his disciples to Jesus and says, \u201cGo ask Jesus if He's the One or we should be waiting for another.\u201d And it's like: \u201cReally? You heard God's voice in the sky; you saw the Holy Spirit descend on Him; and you're still doubting?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat does that tell me? That tells me that, if God would give me the \u201cproof\u201d today by showing up in the sky, wearing a flashing jersey that says, \u201cI am Jesus; worship Me,\u201d I'd still probably doubt; I'd still do that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI see these examples of these people\/these characters in the Scriptures. I see the text itself calling into question whether or not God is real, if He's there, if Jesus was who He says He was. I'm like, \u201cI'm in good biblical company. This is really good.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Of course, you turn to the Book of James; and here's James saying, \u201cDon't be like those who doubt\u201d; so there's this rebuke against doubting in James; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shelby: <\/strong>That's one of the beautiful things about Scripture is that you can't just pull quotes here, and here, and here to make it want you want it to say, which is what people do all the time. You have to look at the entirety of Scripture and see examples of this. It's important to look at the Scriptures as a whole. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd you know, even at the Ascension, in Matthew 28\u2014the famous Great Commission\u2014His disciples are there; and it says this one little phrase: \u201c\u2026but some doubted.\u201d \u201c\u2026but some doubted,\u201d\u2014seriously, this is after the resurrection! This is after the resurrection\u2014you know, some doubted still in those moments. It's like: \u201cOkay; Jesus is still patient with us; He cares about us.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDoubt is not the same thing as unbelief; it's not. That's like saying temptation is the same thing as sin; it's not. Doubt is one of those things that can\u2014you know, I ripped this from Tim Keller\u2014it acts like an inoculation almost. If you're doubting, your body is able to create antibodies against it so, when life smacks you in the face\u2014which it will\u2014you're able to not doubt, and you're a lot stronger in the situation; because you've already been inoculated. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>One of the things I thought was interesting, when you were talking about John the Baptist\u2014one of the things that always stuck out to me about John the Baptist\u2014it says he was born with the power of the Holy Spirit in him; and <em>yet<\/em>, he still doubted. Even with the disciples, I can think, \u201cWell, they didn't have the Holy Spirit yet; that's why they were doubting.\u201d And yet, even when we have the power of the Spirit, who helps us discern, we can still have some of that doubt. I feel like that's kind of encouraging. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd one of the things that you talked about, too\u2014which I thought was interesting\u2014you talked about feeding your faith, not your doubts. And even now, like: \u201cOh, that's so good! Because once we get in this doubting kind of space, it's easy to keep going there instead of feeding your faith.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes; walk us through, if somebody listening is going, \u201cI'm wrestling with doubts.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>What's your prescription for them? How do they wrestle well? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shelby: <\/strong>I think that one of the temptations, as a Christian, when we find that people <em>are<\/em> wrestling with doubts, is to give them content in order to <em>negate<\/em> the fact that they are doubting. I've found, especially when you're dealing with people\u2014which is what ministry is\u2014presence is as important, if not more so, than content. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis book is not meant to be an apologetic, per se; there's plenty of other people who have written way better stuff than I have about that kind of thing. Although, I do go into it a little bit with the resurrection; but in general, I think it's an emotional thing\u2014it's a heart thing; it's a communal thing. If you talk about\u2014for example, what you mentioned, Ann: \u201cFeeding your faith and not your doubts,\u201d\u2014I think young people, at least, have the attraction to doubt.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>So then, you're on YouTube<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, watching all the YouTube stuff.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shelby: <\/strong>Yes; and you can find anything on YouTube that will help reinforce your already pre-existing notions about anything; it's there. And so you start to roll that over in your mind. If you remain silent about it, you're going to external sources like YouTube, or reading books, or you're listening to podcasts that reinforce what your doubts are. It just pushes further, and further, and further. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMy exhortation to students is like: \u201cInstead of feeding your doubts, and allowing your faith to starve; why don't you feed your faith, and allow your doubts to starve?\u201d It seems a little bit counterintuitive to think and feel that way, but it's obviously the way \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tthat we should be going\u2014putting the weight of our faith into Jesus during the process of the fact that we're not sure He's going to prop us up. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And I've talked with people for years and said: \u201cThere is going to be a gap between what evidence will support and the ultimate questions you're wrestling with in life. Whatever it is you're wrestling with: \u2018Where did I come from?\u2019 \u2018Why am I here?\u2019 \u2018What happens when I die?\u2019\u2014these kind of big metaphysical questions\u2014to get to an answer, if you're looking for evidence that will be an airtight case that is irrefutable, nobody is ever going to find that.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere's always going to be a gap between what the evidence supports and the conclusion you come to. That gap is the faith gap that we've got to step into. You're either going to step into that and say, \u201cWell, I'm going to believe what the culture says,\u201d or \u201c\u2026what the Bible says. I'm going to fill in the gap, between the evidence and the conclusion, with what I choose to fill it in with.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shelby: <\/strong>Yes; and the beautiful thing about Christianity, among many other beautiful things, is that there's never going to be an airtight argument for Christianity. God didn't give us an airtight argument; he gave us an airtight person, and so that's what we need to concentrate on and lean into in the whole process. There's great evidence for the resurrection. There's great evidence for the historicity of the Bible and the people in the Bible\u2014all that kind of stuff\u2014it's there; it's just that you've got to be willing. This is one of my things with younger people: \u201cYou've got to be willing to <em>look<\/em> for it.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think they sit in class, and they hear from a Religion 101 professor, and they've never really thought about their faith on their own. Their professor just blows holes in everything they thought was true about Christianity. And then they go, \u201cWell, if my professor, who is much smarter than me, doesn't believe it, maybe it's not true.\u201d And then they don't take the time to actually research it themselves.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI'm encouraging people to research it themselves\/to look for the evidence; there is great evidence for the Christian faith. Don't be lazy about it; be intentional; lean into it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd trust that God is going to provide for you in the process of seeking after Him, because He will. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Dave, as a pastor, you've seen people in your churchdoubt. Some have wound up in a stronger place and some have wound up spinning out. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>How have you approached that as people have come to you? What would be the approach you would take?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I think what Shelby said earlier is <em>so<\/em> pivotal. I didn't, initially, even understand it; but presence is so important. You know, I've always said, \u201cIt's not the size of your faith that matters; it's the object.\u201d You can have mustard seed faith, but if you have the right object\u2014I think, like Shelby said, the evidence for the historicity of the Bible\/the evidence of the resurrection is so solid\u2014the object is solid; but you still have to have faith. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI still think most skeptics and most people that struggle with doubt\u2014and I have done that\u2014they want somebody\/they need somebody to walk beside them and love them. But if you're not tender\u2014I don't even think it's doubt that they're wrestling with; they don't like the person that they're walking beside\u2014and they'll use that to say, \u201cYes, I don't believe this is true.\u201d I think it's deeper than that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> It's interesting\u2014I just got a text from a good friend, who lost her 30-some-year-old daughter: \u201cIn church, we were singing this song,\u201d\u2014she said\u2014\u201c<em>You're Never Going to Let Me Down<\/em> [Ann sings a phrase from the song].\u201d And she said, \u201cI couldn't sing that song.\u201d And I said, \u201cI get it.\u201d And she's doubting; she goes, \u201cI'm so struggling right now.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI lost my sister when my sister was 45. I'm telling you\u2014what you said, Shelby, was so true\u2014I had that choice in that moment to feed my faith or to feed my doubts. As you said, Dave, when I connected with other followers of Christ, saying, \u201cI'm really struggling.\u201d I think it's so important for us to continue to always be building on that faith\u2014to saturate ourselves with God's Word\/to be in community with other people. When we can't even stand up, they're holding us up, praying for us. But also, to be able to be vulnerable and real, and have people say, \u201cYes; I get it. Let me pray for you.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>What I love about your book is that it's the kind of book that someone, who is wrestling with doubt, can read to help them know how to address that. It's also a book that moms and dads can be reading to help them understand the doubts that their kids are going to go through\/that their college kids are bombarded with today to help them know: \u201cHow do I walk well alongside my children when they are doubting?\u201d\u2014or help them walk well alongside their friends, who are doubting. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe book Shelby has written is called <em>DoubtLess: Because Faith Is Hard<\/em>. It's brand new; it's just out this week. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com to get a copy of the book, <em>DoubtLess<\/em>; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY. Again, our website is FamilyLifeToday.com; you can order from us online. Or you can call to order the book,<em> DoubtLess<\/em>, by Shelby Abbott; the number to call is 1-800-358-6329\u2014that's 1-800-\u201dF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201c TODAY.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, we are aware that this issue of helping our kids stay on track, spiritually, is the number-one issue moms and dads are losing sleep over these days. It's the issue that matters most to us as followers of Christ. That's what we're trying to address every day on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>\u2014the very real, very practical issues that we face in our marriage relationship, in our parenting, our extended family relationships.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>exists to effectively develop godly marriages and families. We believe that marriages and families are an essential part of a healthy society. When marriages and families are not doing well, the society is not doing well. So if you want to change the world, you change it one home at a time. We are so grateful for those of you who share that vision with us\u2014those of you who made today's program possible by being supporters of this ministry and making donations in the past.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you can help with a donation today, we'd love to say, \u201cThank you,\u201d by sending you a copy of my new book, which is called <em>Love Like You Mean It<\/em>. It's a book for married couples to help us apply the definition of love from 1 Corinthians 13 and build a stronger more durable marriage, because it's built on a solid foundation of what real love should look like in marriage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe book is our thank-you gift to you when you make a donation today to support the ongoing work of <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em> You can donate, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to donate. We're grateful for your past support and your ongoing support of this ministry. We really appreciate you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe hope you can join us, again, tomorrow. We want to talk about what we can do, as parents, to have healthy conversations with our children about their doubts\u2014how to invite them into dialogue about those things. Shelby Abbott will join us, again, tomorrow. I hope you can tune in as well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2020 FamilyLife. 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