{"id":306327,"date":"2020-08-13T07:00:05","date_gmt":"2020-08-13T11:00:05","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/respecting-girls\/"},"modified":"2020-08-13T07:00:05","modified_gmt":"2020-08-13T11:00:05","slug":"respecting-girls","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/respecting-girls\/","title":{"rendered":"Respecting Girls"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Vicki Courtney encourages mothers to talk to their sons about chivalry. Mothers and fathers should also talk to their sons about unplanned pregnancy, sexting, and porn.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2020-08-13.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:33:02","filesize":"30.25M","filesize_raw":"31721297","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2838,2835],"tags":[6929],"podcast_series":[8382],"cwp_profile":[8996],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-306327","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-mothers","category-raising-boys","tag-raising-a-son","podcast_series-five-conversations-you-must-have-with-your-son","cwp_profile-vicki-courtney","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/306327\/respecting-girls","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/306327\/respecting-girls","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"StYhbohe7A\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/respecting-girls\/\">Respecting Girls<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/respecting-girls\/embed\/#?secret=StYhbohe7A\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Respecting Girls&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"StYhbohe7A\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2020-08-13.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2020-08-13.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Bob: <\/strong>As a young man, Vicki Courtney\u2019s son was looking at pornography regularly. She became aware of that, later in his life, after he had broken free from that addiction. She asked him if she had failed him in some way as a mother.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Vicki:<\/strong> He really answered that question to me, like, \u201cWhat could I have done differently?\u201d This may sound hopeless to moms; but he said: \u201cNothing. You did everything you were supposed to do. You were having the conversations. This is how powerful it is.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe said: \u201cBut at the end of the day, let me tell you what I caught from you. I remember <em>your<\/em> story, Mom, of redemption. I remember you telling me how God worked that out in your own life. I remember you telling me that it\u2019s never too late to begin again.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Thursday, August 13<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I'm Bob Lepine. You can find us online at FamilyLifeToday.com. What can we be doing today, as parents, to help prepare our children for those times when they will fall\/when they\u2019ll fail? How do we make sure they understand that God provides forgiveness and redemption? We\u2019ll talk more about that today with Vicki Courtney. Stay with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Am I allowed to talk this time? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You know, you contributed\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> She put her hand up; I like that! You should do that at home more. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Excuse me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You contributed yesterday. So we\u2019ll let you contribute again today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I did; oh, thanks!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I thought we\u2019d start with a little <em>Name That Tune.<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> <em>Name That Tune<\/em>!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>\u00a0<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I\u2019m going to play this song, and let\u2019s see who can get the song first; okay?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Vicki, are you good at this?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> This is one of the conversations we\u2019re supposed to have with our sons?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes, right here; this is the conversation. [Music playing]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Oh, yeah!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Do you know what this is? What is it, Dave? Can you name this tune?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I can\u2019t get the name! [Music continues playing] Got to get to the chorus.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; this is the Cornelius Brothers.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> <em>Treat Her Like a Lady<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So there it is. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Wow; this takes us\u2014Bob, you\u2019re a little older than us\u2014[Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Vicki: <\/strong>That\u2019s too\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u2014you just dated yourself. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Vicki, that\u2019s too <em>old<\/em> for me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Vicki:<\/strong> I remember my parents listening to that song. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Oh, boy! He\u2019s not that old. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> The title of the song is <em>Treat Her Like a Lady<\/em> by the Cornelius Brothers and Sister Rose from back in my day; okay?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u20141935?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Oh, stop it! [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> That was probably early \u201860s.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That\u2019s\u2014let me see.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I would say <em>late<\/em> \u201860s.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I think\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019d say \u201862.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Vicki:<\/strong> I was not in this world.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014\u201962? Hang on.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014\u201870?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This song came out in 1971; okay. It\u2019s not \u201860s; it\u2019s not 1935, like you\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You were like six years old then, too; weren\u2019t you?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> But forget the song. The conversation\u2014teaching our sons\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Okay; \u201cHow to treat a lady.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cHow to treat a young woman with respect and dignity.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Is that what you\u2019re supposed to do?\u2014play the song over and over?\u2014[Laughter]\u2014and tell them: \u201cThat\u2019s how you do it\u201d? Or what is the\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>That\u2019s not how you do it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>That\u2019s why Vicki is here; she\u2019s here to help us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Good thing we have an expert. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> How did you do it? I want to know how you did it with your boys: \u201cHow did you teach your boys to treat girls?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Well, you know, when you have a model in the home, like me, you just say, \u201cBoys, copy this!\u201d [Laughter] Is that how I did it?!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; you were really good at that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> No, I\u2019m kidding; she\u2019s trying to be nice. Vicki said it earlier\u2014I started by sharing mistakes, and how I didn\u2019t treat women the way they should have been treated, as a high school boy, and then later. I started with honesty and then tried to have conversations every day. It wasn\u2019t one conversation that talked about cherishing a woman. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI didn\u2019t <em>know<\/em>, until I became a follower of Christ, that God had a standard that His Word laid out\u2014what it looked like for a man to cherish and love a woman. I was the guy that did it the way the world did\u2014thought that women were objectified and didn\u2019t know any better. I\u2019m not blaming anybody but myself. When you step into Christ, there\u2019s a whole new\u2014you see her as a woman made in the image of God. That changes everything.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You shared mistakes with your boys, like when they were nine and ten? Were you telling them, \u201cI made mistakes with girls\u201d?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes, but not specifics until they were\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014until they were older.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014until they were almost college-age.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014high school. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Vicki:<\/strong> That\u2019s powerful.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> At the same time\u2014you were talking about the fact that you didn\u2019t do it right\u2014Ann, you were involved in trying to help coach your boys on how to treat <em>you<\/em> first; so that they\u2019d know how to treat other women; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Right; even as you have toddlers, who get angry and who will hit, I remember taking their hand and saying, \u201cYou will never hit a woman,\u201d or \u201c\u2026a girl,\u201d or \u201cYour job is to protect girls and to protect women.\u201d Even that\u2014like toddlers\u2014you\u2019re teaching them: \u201cIt\u2019s your job to stand up for us,\u201d \u201c\u2026you\u2019re job to protect.\u201d Even when there\u2019s bickering or fighting, they see their job as being one of protection, of love, of care. We can start those conversations when they\u2019re little.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDave, you <em>were<\/em> great at respecting me, of honoring me, and loving me when the boys were little.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I do remember\u2014I don\u2019t know what day it was\u2014my oldest son, I think\u2014hopefully, he\u2019s not listening right now. I remember him being disrespectful to Ann when he was a teenage boy, probably 15 or 16, in the kitchen. I can see it\u2014just with his words, getting mouthy\/disrespectful\u2014I sort of lost it\u2014like, \u201cYou will <em>never<\/em> speak to your mother\/my wife that way.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn a sense, there was this sense to say, \u201cShe is of value\u2014not just because she\u2019s a mom\u2014but because she\u2019s a woman.\u201d I think that stuck. It caught him off guard, like, \u201cOkay; this is real.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Vicki, what\u2019s your counsel to parents as they think about: \u201cYou are bringing your sons up\u201d? You\u2019ve got to teach them how to respect one another, how boys should respect girls, and how they should handle themselves around these issues. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Vicki:<\/strong> I think we\u2019re talking about chivalry. It\u2019s not a word that you hear much anymore\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s true. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Vicki:<\/strong> \u2014and that\u2019s sad to me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Me too.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Vicki:<\/strong> The conversation has to change. We have to even expand it; because the truth is we\u2019ve got all sorts of things, again, happening in this generation that we didn\u2019t have to deal with in our generation; or maybe, we\u2019re just starting to with our own sons. I think about the trend of sexting; I think about pornography. I know we talked about, in an earlier episode, how teenagers today don\u2019t even think pornography, by and large, is wrong\/that viewing pornography is wrong.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne of the things we need to do with our sons is help them connect the dots that: \u201cWhen you view pornography, you are devaluing a woman. We are made in God\u2019s image. You are showing disrespect and devaluing the dignity of that woman.\u201d It\u2019s not something they necessarily think about; that, at the very least, we need to make sure our boys know that <em>all women<\/em> need to be valued and respected and are made in the image of God. It\u2019s going to get harder and harder for them\u2014just to be honest with them about that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Here\u2019s what you\u2019re saying\u2014you\u2019re saying we start with a baseline of saying: \u201cSon, listen. Girls are God\u2019s daughters. You\u2019ve got to treat them with dignity, and value, and respect.\u201d Then the girls come along, and they say: \u201cOh no, you don\u2019t.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Vicki:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u201cIn fact, treat me the opposite.\u201d Boys hear their dads or their moms saying one thing; and they hear the girls saying, \u201cNo, we can do it this way.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis is where I remember Dennis Rainey had written a book about dads interviewing daughter\u2019s dates. The moms called and said: \u201cThat\u2019s all well and good for trying to protect your daughters. What about my 15-year-old son\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Vicki:<\/strong> I get that a lot.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cwho\u2019s getting these things texted to him? And he\u2019s going, \u2018What am I supposed to do with that?\u2019\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis wrote the book, <em>Aggressive Girls, Clueless Boys<\/em>. He went right to Proverbs 5, 6, and 7, where the Bible says: \u201cYes, there are going to be women who are going to present themselves to boys and say: \u2018You don\u2019t have to treat me with dignity and respect. I\u2019m here for you.\u2019\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s where we\u2019ve got to train our sons\u2014even when the girl is saying, \u201cNo, this is not what I want,\u201d\u2014you have to say, \u201cBut this is what <em>God<\/em> wants, and I\u2019m going to do what <em>God<\/em> wants, not what seems pleasurable to me or even what you\u2019re asking me to do.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Vicki: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It seems, Vicki, you\u2019re saying you stepped in, as a mom; because a lot of moms would punt that conversation to their husband\u2014say: \u201cOkay; this is sort of out of my territory. You\u2019re the man; this is my son.\u201d Yet in your book, one of your conversations is talking about sex respect with your son. How do you do that as a mom?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Vicki:<\/strong> I just never had any problem doing that. I think one of the reasons is I started the conversations, pretty young, with my sons. It sounded something like\u2014you know, by the time they were, probably, eight to ten years old\u2014I was like: \u201cHey, buddy. There\u2019s this word, \u2018sex,\u2019 and you\u2019re going to hear it. You may have heard it already. I want to make sure that you know what it means, because it\u2019s something that God created. It\u2019s beautiful; it\u2019s between a husband and a wife. But you\u2019re going to hear a lot of lies about this word, \u2018sex.\u2019\u201d Just by saying the <em>word<\/em>, and being able to start that conversation with them, at a young age, it reduces any level of shame associated with sex; because when we\u2019re telling them the truth about it, there should be no shame. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne of the things I talk about in this particular conversation is\u2014and maybe it\u2019s because of my own story that I was sensitive to this\u2014I did have sex outside of marriage. It ended up producing a pregnancy. I had an abortion at the age of 17. It\u2019s a painful part of my past, but it\u2019s a part of my past that God has redeemed. I shared, at various times, with each of my children, depending on their level of maturity. I prayed and asked the Holy Spirit to direct me as far as, \u201cYou tell me when I\u2019m supposed to have this conversation.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI was able to share my <em>own<\/em> story: \u201cIt comes with consequences. It\u2019s not as easy as it looks to just \u2018Oh, if somebody\u2019s willing, then,,,\u2019\u2014you know\u2014\u2018Everybody\u2019s doing this.\u2019 I mean, there are consequences. There are consequences of: STD\u2019s that are out there, unplanned pregnancies like what I had; and then, the heartbreak when\u2014at the time, I didn\u2019t think abortion was wrong; I wasn\u2019t a believer\u2014the pain and shame of that came later.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut to also cover with my sons that: \u201cI <em>regret<\/em> that; however, I need you to <em>know<\/em> that God has redeemed my past.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI do think there is some power in our children hearing the regret firsthand from us; but also they need to hear the hope\u2014right?\u2014because the reality is most of them are going to have sex before they are married. We have <em>got<\/em> to be able to talk openly about these things with our children, but to also make sure that they know that God can redeem <em>anything<\/em> in our past. However, that doesn\u2019t mean it doesn\u2019t come without consequences. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> One of the things I found very interesting in your book was your son writes a letter\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Vicki:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014at the end, talking about that a little bit. That was such a beautiful letter and so honest. Talk about that a little bit. What happened there? What did that mean?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Vicki:<\/strong> In between writing the original book and then writing this updated version\u2014and here, mind you, I\u2019m writing a book, <em>Five Conversations You Must Have with Your Son<\/em>\u2014I feel like: \u201cWow! I\u2019m one of few moms out here that\u2019s actually having conversations on a fairly regular basis about the dangers of pornography, sex outside of marriage, casual sex,\u201d\u2014the list goes on.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYet, my son, right after he graduated college, was newly-married, shared with us that he had a porn addiction. He and his wife had to come together in the sense of figuring out, \u201cWhere do we go from here?\u201d Now I will tell you\u2014that was humbling for me; because a mom\u2019s first thought is, \u201cWhere did I go wrong?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Vicki:<\/strong> \u201cWhat part of that conversation did I leave out? Did I not talk about it enough?\u201d I just beat myself up. This letter that you speak of\u2014that I had his permission\u2014he actually <em>asked<\/em> if he could write a letter to moms, which was even more powerful to me. I wept when I read it; because he really answered that question for me, like, \u201cWhat could I have done differently?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis may sound hopeless to moms; but he said: \u201cNothing. You did everything you were supposed to do. You were having the conversations. This is how powerful it is.\u201d He said: \u201cBut at the end of the day, let me tell you what I caught from you. I remember <em>your<\/em> story, Mom, of redemption. I remember <em>you<\/em> telling me that it\u2019s never too late to begin again. I remember you telling me how God worked that out in your own life, so I wasn\u2019t afraid to get help. It\u2019s really one of the main reasons I wanted help at this age, and I didn\u2019t continue in the sin.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat <em>meant<\/em> the world to me because it reminded me that, at the end of the day, we are called to be obedient\u2014to teach our kids these truths, as stewards\u2014they\u2019re just on loan to us. That\u2019s why it\u2019s important that we learn to let go when we need to let go; they belong to the Lord. I was able\u2014even though I think our nature, as moms especially, is to always think: \u201cI could have done more,\u201d \u201cIt wasn\u2019t enough,\u201d\u2014for the most part, I was able to say, \u201cI did the best job I could, and I had these conversations.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut you know what? My son has a story to tell today. My son, at the age of 26, is leading men\u2019s groups at his church. He\u2019s meeting, one on one, with countless men, who have this same addiction, both in the church and outside of the church\u2014some that he\u2019s been able to even talk to them about the gospel and the Lord. He\u2019s walking in truth today. He\u2019ll tell you: \u201cThis will be a lifelong struggle.\u201d He\u2019s very honest about it: \u201cThis is a lifelong struggle.\u201d It\u2019s why he\u2019s not on social media; he\u2019s got a phone on lockdown; he knows his triggers, his limits\u2014all of that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe has a son, now; so that\u2019s powerful for him to be also able to tell his story someday, to his own son. I think sometimes we put pressure on ourselves that our kids can\u2019t handle this. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I remember a guest on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, years ago. Michael DeMarco said most Christian parents are trying to teach their kids how to be sin avoiders and sin concealers.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Vicki:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes; so true. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And we do want our kids to avoid sin; right?\u2014that\u2019s one of the things we should teach them\u2014but sin concealers are not what we want them to be. Remember what David said? \u201cWhen I concealed my sins\u201d\u2014what happened?\u2014\u201cmy bones\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u201c\u2014wasted away.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So he said what we\u2019re not teaching our kids to do is how to be sin confessors and sin repenters. The way we teach our kids how to be sin confessors and sin repenters is by demonstrating to them what that looks like: confessing of our own sin, repenting of our own sins; so that they see what your son saw\u2014your story of redemption. He knew that God had worked in your life and he saw, \u201cI can be honest about my issue, and God can still work in and through that.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think, with our kids\u2014as we raise them\/as we have these conversations: \u201cHere\u2019s how you treat a young woman,\u201d \u201cHere\u2019s what the boundaries should be when it comes to sex\u2026\u201d \u201cHere\u2019s what\u2026\u201d\u2014in that\u2019s, got to be, \u201cAnd when you fail\/when you make mistakes\u2026\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014because they are going to fail, and <em>we<\/em> are going to fail. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014whether that\u2019s looking at pornography or whether that\u2019s lusting in their heart, which Jesus says that is committing adultery; right? Whatever it is, they\u2019ve got to be able to say: \u201cHere\u2019s what it looks like to confess that in a safe place, and here\u2019s what it looks like to turn from that,\u201d and \u201cHere\u2019s where I can find hope. Here\u2019s where I can find freedom.\u201d They\u2019ve got to learn that pattern in their lives. That\u2019s one of the conversations that we can have with our kids as we\u2019re raising them. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Vicki:<\/strong> Yes; I actually did tell him, in his high school years, after reading so many of the statistics, terrified about the fall, so I\u2019d say: \u201cIf you ever find yourself in this situation, I would want you to know you can come to me or your father. We will get you the help that you need. There\u2019s no shame in that.\u201d He said that helped, too, just to be able to hear that. I wasn\u2019t endorsing sin concealing; [but rather]: \u201cGo ahead\u2014we\u2019re in this together. We can help you.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne of the things that came to mind, as you were sharing that, Bob, is that a lot of the time, I feel like we\u2019re good at behavior modification strategies with our kids. We like a checklist; don\u2019t we? Even\u2014I think I share at the beginning of these books\u2014I know for a lot of moms\u2014I would be one of them\u2014\u201cJust give me the formula. I want to check off the boxes.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Wouldn\u2019t that be nice?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Vicki:<\/strong> Wouldn\u2019t it be nice if then you knew \u201cGuaranteed; money back return\u201d?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u201cFollow this recipe; it\u2019ll always turn out great.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Vicki:<\/strong> Yes, yes! I see where I wish my son hadn\u2019t had that struggle, but yet look who he is today! And look at the impact he\u2019s having on other men\u2019s lives and marriages that are being saved. More importantly, his faith\u2014he has a relationship with the Lord that is <em>so solid<\/em>\u2014that he might not have had\/he <em>would<\/em> <em>not<\/em> have had, because he was concealing sin. We all know that our relationship is fractured when we\u2019re hiding sin.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Vicki:<\/strong> One of the things I talk about, at the very end of the book, is this whole idea of behavior modification. It\u2019s like, when your kids leave with car keys\u2014and you\u2019re terrified, of course\u2014I would always yell this ridiculous phrase like, \u201cMake good choices!\u201d [Laughter] I thought a lot about this. My youngest child\u2014the one I\u2019m speaking of; he\u2019s my mini-me\u2014he\u2019s really the one\u2014I made poor decisions in high school and college, so I could relate to a lot of what I saw in him. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI knew that the \u201cMake good choices!\u201d worked with my daughter because, naturally, she was a do-gooder. I would say this to my son; and then it hit me one day: \u201cBehavior modification is not the right incentive to even be a good kid\u201d; right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI talked to him, one day about: \u201cInstead of yelling behind you, Make good choices!\u2019\u201d\u2014because really, at the end of the day, how many kids, when they show up at the party and they discover all their friends are drinking, and somebody hands them a shot glass, say: \u201cOh, no thanks. I\u2019m going to pass because, right before I left, my mom told me to make good choices.\u201d [Laughter] They\u2019re just not going to do it. But I would tell my son, \u201cRemember the cross. Remember the cross.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis whole idea of: \u201cAre we going to focus more on behavior modification or heart examination?\u201d When I sat down with my son and said, \u201cYou have to come to a place, Hayden, where you care more about the condition of your heart than I do. That has to be <em>your<\/em> decision\u2014that you truly\/you must guard your heart; it is the wellspring of life. <em>You<\/em> have to decide that you want to guard and protect your heart; it has to mean more to <em>you<\/em>. In doing so, the best way is to: \u2018Remember the cross\u2019; because when we remember the cross, we can\u2019t help but go back to what He did for us, personally.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s not going to work, like I said, every time; but if you can, at least, get your kids thinking along the lines of remembering the cross rather than focusing more on this list of: \u201cThis is how you treat women with respect,\u201d \u201cThis is\u2026\u201d\u2014if they\u2019re doing that: examining their hearts on a daily basis as an exercise\/spiritual exercise in their lives\u2014all of that\u2019s going to fall into place.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u201cWhen we survey the wondrous cross on which the Prince of glory died, all the vain things that charm us most, we sacrifice them to His blood,\u201d\u2014right?\u2014that\u2019s what the hymn-writer said. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tVicki, you\u2019ve given a lot of moms and dads a lot of courage on these conversations we need to be having with our kids. These books are a great tool. Thank you for being with us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Vicki:<\/strong> Thank you for having me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Thanks for writing the books. We have copies of both <em>Five Conversations You Must Have with Your Son<\/em> and <em>Five Conversations You Must Have with Your Daughter<\/em>. Go to our FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> Resource Center, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com. You can order the book from us, online; or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY to order. Again, the website is FamilyLifeToday.com; or call 1-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d Get a copy of either or both of Vicki\u2019s books, and start having these conversations with your kids.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOur hope, here, at FamilyLife is that these kinds of conversations that you get to sit in on and be a part of are providing you with practical biblical help and hope as you raise your kids. David Robbins, who is the president of FamilyLife is here with us. Wherever you are in your parenting or grandparenting journey, we need help; don\u2019t we?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> Yes; I feel it every day; that\u2019s for sure. I reflect back, listening to this conversation, on the months leading up to me becoming president of FamilyLife. Dennis Rainey was introducing me to a variety of influential Christian leaders. As I spent time with each one, I would ask them the question, \u201cFrom their perspective, what was FamilyLife\u2019s greatest contribution to the body of Christ and to God\u2019s kingdom?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne leader that I really respected, very candidly said: \u201cFamilyLife\u201d\u2014to him\u2014\u201cwas there to practically guide us in those moments and those places in life, where you just stop and go: \u2018Oh, boy. I\u2019ve never been here before, and I have no clue what to do.\u2019\u201d At FamilyLife, it is part of who we are to help you engage your closest relationships\u2014to help have conversations with your spouse and to, certainly, help you have conversations with kids\u2014those moments, where you go: \u201cOh, no! What do I do?\u201d\u2014we\u2019re here to help you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And you\u2019re exactly right. This is what we\u2019re all about, here, at FamilyLife\u2014to help you navigate these moments in a marriage and in a family when you need someone who can coach you\/who can offer practical biblical help and hope for your marriage and for your family. That\u2019s what FamilyLife is all about. We\u2019re grateful, by the way, for those of you who have partnered with us over the years so that we can reach more people, more often, and effectively develop godly marriages and families. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you can help with a donation today, we\u2019d love to say, \u201cThank you,\u201d by sending you a copy of my new book, which is called <em>Love Like You Mean It<\/em>. It\u2019s all about understanding love at a biblical level rather than thinking about it in cultural terms. I\u2019m convinced that, if couples can wrap their heads around a biblical view of love, they can have the kind of marriage that God has always intended for them to have; and it\u2019s a deeper level of love than most of us have every experienced in marriage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe book is our thank-you gift when you make a donation to support the ongoing work of this ministry. You can donate, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY to make a donation and get your copy of the book, <em>Love Like You Mean It<\/em>. Thanks, in advance, for whatever you are able to do. We appreciate hearing from you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we hope you can join us, again, tomorrow when we\u2019re going to talk about the challenge it is for a young person, who is growing up in a situation, where you spend a couple of weeks with mom and a couple of weeks with dad\u2014and they live in separate locations\u2014and maybe, there are stepparents involved. What happens when the values in the homes are different? That\u2019s what Melody Fabian experienced, and she joins Ron Deal tomorrow to talk about how she experienced that. I hope you can tune in. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<sup>\u00a9<\/sup>Song:\u00a0 <em>Treat Her Like a Lady<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tArtist:\u00a0\u00a0 Cornelius Brothers and Sister Rose\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAlbum:\u00a0 <em>Heart of Soul: Too Late to Turn Back Now<\/em> <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 1996 Capitol Records, Inc.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2020 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:33:02"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["30.25M"],"filesize_raw":["31721297"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-306327.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-306327.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom 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Courtney encourages mothers to talk to their sons about chivalry. Mothers and fathers should also talk to their sons about unplanned pregnancy, sexting, and porn.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2020-08-13.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>As a young man, Vicki Courtney\u2019s son was looking at pornography regularly. She became aware of that, later in his life, after he had broken free from that addiction. She asked him if she had failed him in some way as a mother.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Vicki:<\/strong> He really answered that question to me, like, \u201cWhat could I have done differently?\u201d This may sound hopeless to moms; but he said: \u201cNothing. You did everything you were supposed to do. You were having the conversations. This is how powerful it is.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe said: \u201cBut at the end of the day, let me tell you what I caught from you. I remember <em>your<\/em> story, Mom, of redemption. I remember you telling me how God worked that out in your own life. I remember you telling me that it\u2019s never too late to begin again.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Thursday, August 13<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I'm Bob Lepine. You can find us online at FamilyLifeToday.com. What can we be doing today, as parents, to help prepare our children for those times when they will fall\/when they\u2019ll fail? How do we make sure they understand that God provides forgiveness and redemption? We\u2019ll talk more about that today with Vicki Courtney. Stay with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Am I allowed to talk this time? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You know, you contributed\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> She put her hand up; I like that! You should do that at home more. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Excuse me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You contributed yesterday. So we\u2019ll let you contribute again today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I did; oh, thanks!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I thought we\u2019d start with a little <em>Name That Tune.<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> <em>Name That Tune<\/em>!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>\u00a0<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I\u2019m going to play this song, and let\u2019s see who can get the song first; okay?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Vicki, are you good at this?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> This is one of the conversations we\u2019re supposed to have with our sons?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes, right here; this is the conversation. [Music playing]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Oh, yeah!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Do you know what this is? What is it, Dave? Can you name this tune?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I can\u2019t get the name! [Music continues playing] Got to get to the chorus.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; this is the Cornelius Brothers.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> <em>Treat Her Like a Lady<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So there it is. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Wow; this takes us\u2014Bob, you\u2019re a little older than us\u2014[Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Vicki: <\/strong>That\u2019s too\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u2014you just dated yourself. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Vicki, that\u2019s too <em>old<\/em> for me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Vicki:<\/strong> I remember my parents listening to that song. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Oh, boy! He\u2019s not that old. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> The title of the song is <em>Treat Her Like a Lady<\/em> by the Cornelius Brothers and Sister Rose from back in my day; okay?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u20141935?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Oh, stop it! [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> That was probably early \u201860s.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That\u2019s\u2014let me see.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I would say <em>late<\/em> \u201860s.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I think\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019d say \u201862.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Vicki:<\/strong> I was not in this world.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014\u201962? Hang on.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014\u201870?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This song came out in 1971; okay. It\u2019s not \u201860s; it\u2019s not 1935, like you\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You were like six years old then, too; weren\u2019t you?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> But forget the song. The conversation\u2014teaching our sons\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Okay; \u201cHow to treat a lady.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cHow to treat a young woman with respect and dignity.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Is that what you\u2019re supposed to do?\u2014play the song over and over?\u2014[Laughter]\u2014and tell them: \u201cThat\u2019s how you do it\u201d? Or what is the\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>That\u2019s not how you do it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>That\u2019s why Vicki is here; she\u2019s here to help us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Good thing we have an expert. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> How did you do it? I want to know how you did it with your boys: \u201cHow did you teach your boys to treat girls?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Well, you know, when you have a model in the home, like me, you just say, \u201cBoys, copy this!\u201d [Laughter] Is that how I did it?!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; you were really good at that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> No, I\u2019m kidding; she\u2019s trying to be nice. Vicki said it earlier\u2014I started by sharing mistakes, and how I didn\u2019t treat women the way they should have been treated, as a high school boy, and then later. I started with honesty and then tried to have conversations every day. It wasn\u2019t one conversation that talked about cherishing a woman. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI didn\u2019t <em>know<\/em>, until I became a follower of Christ, that God had a standard that His Word laid out\u2014what it looked like for a man to cherish and love a woman. I was the guy that did it the way the world did\u2014thought that women were objectified and didn\u2019t know any better. I\u2019m not blaming anybody but myself. When you step into Christ, there\u2019s a whole new\u2014you see her as a woman made in the image of God. That changes everything.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You shared mistakes with your boys, like when they were nine and ten? Were you telling them, \u201cI made mistakes with girls\u201d?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes, but not specifics until they were\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014until they were older.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014until they were almost college-age.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014high school. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Vicki:<\/strong> That\u2019s powerful.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> At the same time\u2014you were talking about the fact that you didn\u2019t do it right\u2014Ann, you were involved in trying to help coach your boys on how to treat <em>you<\/em> first; so that they\u2019d know how to treat other women; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Right; even as you have toddlers, who get angry and who will hit, I remember taking their hand and saying, \u201cYou will never hit a woman,\u201d or \u201c\u2026a girl,\u201d or \u201cYour job is to protect girls and to protect women.\u201d Even that\u2014like toddlers\u2014you\u2019re teaching them: \u201cIt\u2019s your job to stand up for us,\u201d \u201c\u2026you\u2019re job to protect.\u201d Even when there\u2019s bickering or fighting, they see their job as being one of protection, of love, of care. We can start those conversations when they\u2019re little.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDave, you <em>were<\/em> great at respecting me, of honoring me, and loving me when the boys were little.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I do remember\u2014I don\u2019t know what day it was\u2014my oldest son, I think\u2014hopefully, he\u2019s not listening right now. I remember him being disrespectful to Ann when he was a teenage boy, probably 15 or 16, in the kitchen. I can see it\u2014just with his words, getting mouthy\/disrespectful\u2014I sort of lost it\u2014like, \u201cYou will <em>never<\/em> speak to your mother\/my wife that way.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn a sense, there was this sense to say, \u201cShe is of value\u2014not just because she\u2019s a mom\u2014but because she\u2019s a woman.\u201d I think that stuck. It caught him off guard, like, \u201cOkay; this is real.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Vicki, what\u2019s your counsel to parents as they think about: \u201cYou are bringing your sons up\u201d? You\u2019ve got to teach them how to respect one another, how boys should respect girls, and how they should handle themselves around these issues. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Vicki:<\/strong> I think we\u2019re talking about chivalry. It\u2019s not a word that you hear much anymore\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s true. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Vicki:<\/strong> \u2014and that\u2019s sad to me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Me too.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Vicki:<\/strong> The conversation has to change. We have to even expand it; because the truth is we\u2019ve got all sorts of things, again, happening in this generation that we didn\u2019t have to deal with in our generation; or maybe, we\u2019re just starting to with our own sons. I think about the trend of sexting; I think about pornography. I know we talked about, in an earlier episode, how teenagers today don\u2019t even think pornography, by and large, is wrong\/that viewing pornography is wrong.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne of the things we need to do with our sons is help them connect the dots that: \u201cWhen you view pornography, you are devaluing a woman. We are made in God\u2019s image. You are showing disrespect and devaluing the dignity of that woman.\u201d It\u2019s not something they necessarily think about; that, at the very least, we need to make sure our boys know that <em>all women<\/em> need to be valued and respected and are made in the image of God. It\u2019s going to get harder and harder for them\u2014just to be honest with them about that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Here\u2019s what you\u2019re saying\u2014you\u2019re saying we start with a baseline of saying: \u201cSon, listen. Girls are God\u2019s daughters. You\u2019ve got to treat them with dignity, and value, and respect.\u201d Then the girls come along, and they say: \u201cOh no, you don\u2019t.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Vicki:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u201cIn fact, treat me the opposite.\u201d Boys hear their dads or their moms saying one thing; and they hear the girls saying, \u201cNo, we can do it this way.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis is where I remember Dennis Rainey had written a book about dads interviewing daughter\u2019s dates. The moms called and said: \u201cThat\u2019s all well and good for trying to protect your daughters. What about my 15-year-old son\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Vicki:<\/strong> I get that a lot.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cwho\u2019s getting these things texted to him? And he\u2019s going, \u2018What am I supposed to do with that?\u2019\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDennis wrote the book, <em>Aggressive Girls, Clueless Boys<\/em>. He went right to Proverbs 5, 6, and 7, where the Bible says: \u201cYes, there are going to be women who are going to present themselves to boys and say: \u2018You don\u2019t have to treat me with dignity and respect. I\u2019m here for you.\u2019\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s where we\u2019ve got to train our sons\u2014even when the girl is saying, \u201cNo, this is not what I want,\u201d\u2014you have to say, \u201cBut this is what <em>God<\/em> wants, and I\u2019m going to do what <em>God<\/em> wants, not what seems pleasurable to me or even what you\u2019re asking me to do.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Vicki: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It seems, Vicki, you\u2019re saying you stepped in, as a mom; because a lot of moms would punt that conversation to their husband\u2014say: \u201cOkay; this is sort of out of my territory. You\u2019re the man; this is my son.\u201d Yet in your book, one of your conversations is talking about sex respect with your son. How do you do that as a mom?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Vicki:<\/strong> I just never had any problem doing that. I think one of the reasons is I started the conversations, pretty young, with my sons. It sounded something like\u2014you know, by the time they were, probably, eight to ten years old\u2014I was like: \u201cHey, buddy. There\u2019s this word, \u2018sex,\u2019 and you\u2019re going to hear it. You may have heard it already. I want to make sure that you know what it means, because it\u2019s something that God created. It\u2019s beautiful; it\u2019s between a husband and a wife. But you\u2019re going to hear a lot of lies about this word, \u2018sex.\u2019\u201d Just by saying the <em>word<\/em>, and being able to start that conversation with them, at a young age, it reduces any level of shame associated with sex; because when we\u2019re telling them the truth about it, there should be no shame. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne of the things I talk about in this particular conversation is\u2014and maybe it\u2019s because of my own story that I was sensitive to this\u2014I did have sex outside of marriage. It ended up producing a pregnancy. I had an abortion at the age of 17. It\u2019s a painful part of my past, but it\u2019s a part of my past that God has redeemed. I shared, at various times, with each of my children, depending on their level of maturity. I prayed and asked the Holy Spirit to direct me as far as, \u201cYou tell me when I\u2019m supposed to have this conversation.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI was able to share my <em>own<\/em> story: \u201cIt comes with consequences. It\u2019s not as easy as it looks to just \u2018Oh, if somebody\u2019s willing, then,,,\u2019\u2014you know\u2014\u2018Everybody\u2019s doing this.\u2019 I mean, there are consequences. There are consequences of: STD\u2019s that are out there, unplanned pregnancies like what I had; and then, the heartbreak when\u2014at the time, I didn\u2019t think abortion was wrong; I wasn\u2019t a believer\u2014the pain and shame of that came later.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut to also cover with my sons that: \u201cI <em>regret<\/em> that; however, I need you to <em>know<\/em> that God has redeemed my past.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI do think there is some power in our children hearing the regret firsthand from us; but also they need to hear the hope\u2014right?\u2014because the reality is most of them are going to have sex before they are married. We have <em>got<\/em> to be able to talk openly about these things with our children, but to also make sure that they know that God can redeem <em>anything<\/em> in our past. However, that doesn\u2019t mean it doesn\u2019t come without consequences. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> One of the things I found very interesting in your book was your son writes a letter\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Vicki:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014at the end, talking about that a little bit. That was such a beautiful letter and so honest. Talk about that a little bit. What happened there? What did that mean?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Vicki:<\/strong> In between writing the original book and then writing this updated version\u2014and here, mind you, I\u2019m writing a book, <em>Five Conversations You Must Have with Your Son<\/em>\u2014I feel like: \u201cWow! I\u2019m one of few moms out here that\u2019s actually having conversations on a fairly regular basis about the dangers of pornography, sex outside of marriage, casual sex,\u201d\u2014the list goes on.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYet, my son, right after he graduated college, was newly-married, shared with us that he had a porn addiction. He and his wife had to come together in the sense of figuring out, \u201cWhere do we go from here?\u201d Now I will tell you\u2014that was humbling for me; because a mom\u2019s first thought is, \u201cWhere did I go wrong?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Vicki:<\/strong> \u201cWhat part of that conversation did I leave out? Did I not talk about it enough?\u201d I just beat myself up. This letter that you speak of\u2014that I had his permission\u2014he actually <em>asked<\/em> if he could write a letter to moms, which was even more powerful to me. I wept when I read it; because he really answered that question for me, like, \u201cWhat could I have done differently?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis may sound hopeless to moms; but he said: \u201cNothing. You did everything you were supposed to do. You were having the conversations. This is how powerful it is.\u201d He said: \u201cBut at the end of the day, let me tell you what I caught from you. I remember <em>your<\/em> story, Mom, of redemption. I remember <em>you<\/em> telling me that it\u2019s never too late to begin again. I remember you telling me how God worked that out in your own life, so I wasn\u2019t afraid to get help. It\u2019s really one of the main reasons I wanted help at this age, and I didn\u2019t continue in the sin.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat <em>meant<\/em> the world to me because it reminded me that, at the end of the day, we are called to be obedient\u2014to teach our kids these truths, as stewards\u2014they\u2019re just on loan to us. That\u2019s why it\u2019s important that we learn to let go when we need to let go; they belong to the Lord. I was able\u2014even though I think our nature, as moms especially, is to always think: \u201cI could have done more,\u201d \u201cIt wasn\u2019t enough,\u201d\u2014for the most part, I was able to say, \u201cI did the best job I could, and I had these conversations.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut you know what? My son has a story to tell today. My son, at the age of 26, is leading men\u2019s groups at his church. He\u2019s meeting, one on one, with countless men, who have this same addiction, both in the church and outside of the church\u2014some that he\u2019s been able to even talk to them about the gospel and the Lord. He\u2019s walking in truth today. He\u2019ll tell you: \u201cThis will be a lifelong struggle.\u201d He\u2019s very honest about it: \u201cThis is a lifelong struggle.\u201d It\u2019s why he\u2019s not on social media; he\u2019s got a phone on lockdown; he knows his triggers, his limits\u2014all of that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe has a son, now; so that\u2019s powerful for him to be also able to tell his story someday, to his own son. I think sometimes we put pressure on ourselves that our kids can\u2019t handle this. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I remember a guest on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, years ago. Michael DeMarco said most Christian parents are trying to teach their kids how to be sin avoiders and sin concealers.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Vicki:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes; so true. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And we do want our kids to avoid sin; right?\u2014that\u2019s one of the things we should teach them\u2014but sin concealers are not what we want them to be. Remember what David said? \u201cWhen I concealed my sins\u201d\u2014what happened?\u2014\u201cmy bones\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u201c\u2014wasted away.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So he said what we\u2019re not teaching our kids to do is how to be sin confessors and sin repenters. The way we teach our kids how to be sin confessors and sin repenters is by demonstrating to them what that looks like: confessing of our own sin, repenting of our own sins; so that they see what your son saw\u2014your story of redemption. He knew that God had worked in your life and he saw, \u201cI can be honest about my issue, and God can still work in and through that.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think, with our kids\u2014as we raise them\/as we have these conversations: \u201cHere\u2019s how you treat a young woman,\u201d \u201cHere\u2019s what the boundaries should be when it comes to sex\u2026\u201d \u201cHere\u2019s what\u2026\u201d\u2014in that\u2019s, got to be, \u201cAnd when you fail\/when you make mistakes\u2026\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014because they are going to fail, and <em>we<\/em> are going to fail. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014whether that\u2019s looking at pornography or whether that\u2019s lusting in their heart, which Jesus says that is committing adultery; right? Whatever it is, they\u2019ve got to be able to say: \u201cHere\u2019s what it looks like to confess that in a safe place, and here\u2019s what it looks like to turn from that,\u201d and \u201cHere\u2019s where I can find hope. Here\u2019s where I can find freedom.\u201d They\u2019ve got to learn that pattern in their lives. That\u2019s one of the conversations that we can have with our kids as we\u2019re raising them. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Vicki:<\/strong> Yes; I actually did tell him, in his high school years, after reading so many of the statistics, terrified about the fall, so I\u2019d say: \u201cIf you ever find yourself in this situation, I would want you to know you can come to me or your father. We will get you the help that you need. There\u2019s no shame in that.\u201d He said that helped, too, just to be able to hear that. I wasn\u2019t endorsing sin concealing; [but rather]: \u201cGo ahead\u2014we\u2019re in this together. We can help you.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne of the things that came to mind, as you were sharing that, Bob, is that a lot of the time, I feel like we\u2019re good at behavior modification strategies with our kids. We like a checklist; don\u2019t we? Even\u2014I think I share at the beginning of these books\u2014I know for a lot of moms\u2014I would be one of them\u2014\u201cJust give me the formula. I want to check off the boxes.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Wouldn\u2019t that be nice?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Vicki:<\/strong> Wouldn\u2019t it be nice if then you knew \u201cGuaranteed; money back return\u201d?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u201cFollow this recipe; it\u2019ll always turn out great.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Vicki:<\/strong> Yes, yes! I see where I wish my son hadn\u2019t had that struggle, but yet look who he is today! And look at the impact he\u2019s having on other men\u2019s lives and marriages that are being saved. More importantly, his faith\u2014he has a relationship with the Lord that is <em>so solid<\/em>\u2014that he might not have had\/he <em>would<\/em> <em>not<\/em> have had, because he was concealing sin. We all know that our relationship is fractured when we\u2019re hiding sin.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Vicki:<\/strong> One of the things I talk about, at the very end of the book, is this whole idea of behavior modification. It\u2019s like, when your kids leave with car keys\u2014and you\u2019re terrified, of course\u2014I would always yell this ridiculous phrase like, \u201cMake good choices!\u201d [Laughter] I thought a lot about this. My youngest child\u2014the one I\u2019m speaking of; he\u2019s my mini-me\u2014he\u2019s really the one\u2014I made poor decisions in high school and college, so I could relate to a lot of what I saw in him. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI knew that the \u201cMake good choices!\u201d worked with my daughter because, naturally, she was a do-gooder. I would say this to my son; and then it hit me one day: \u201cBehavior modification is not the right incentive to even be a good kid\u201d; right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI talked to him, one day about: \u201cInstead of yelling behind you, Make good choices!\u2019\u201d\u2014because really, at the end of the day, how many kids, when they show up at the party and they discover all their friends are drinking, and somebody hands them a shot glass, say: \u201cOh, no thanks. I\u2019m going to pass because, right before I left, my mom told me to make good choices.\u201d [Laughter] They\u2019re just not going to do it. But I would tell my son, \u201cRemember the cross. Remember the cross.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis whole idea of: \u201cAre we going to focus more on behavior modification or heart examination?\u201d When I sat down with my son and said, \u201cYou have to come to a place, Hayden, where you care more about the condition of your heart than I do. That has to be <em>your<\/em> decision\u2014that you truly\/you must guard your heart; it is the wellspring of life. <em>You<\/em> have to decide that you want to guard and protect your heart; it has to mean more to <em>you<\/em>. In doing so, the best way is to: \u2018Remember the cross\u2019; because when we remember the cross, we can\u2019t help but go back to what He did for us, personally.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s not going to work, like I said, every time; but if you can, at least, get your kids thinking along the lines of remembering the cross rather than focusing more on this list of: \u201cThis is how you treat women with respect,\u201d \u201cThis is\u2026\u201d\u2014if they\u2019re doing that: examining their hearts on a daily basis as an exercise\/spiritual exercise in their lives\u2014all of that\u2019s going to fall into place.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u201cWhen we survey the wondrous cross on which the Prince of glory died, all the vain things that charm us most, we sacrifice them to His blood,\u201d\u2014right?\u2014that\u2019s what the hymn-writer said. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tVicki, you\u2019ve given a lot of moms and dads a lot of courage on these conversations we need to be having with our kids. These books are a great tool. Thank you for being with us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Vicki:<\/strong> Thank you for having me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Thanks for writing the books. We have copies of both <em>Five Conversations You Must Have with Your Son<\/em> and <em>Five Conversations You Must Have with Your Daughter<\/em>. Go to our FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> Resource Center, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com. You can order the book from us, online; or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY to order. Again, the website is FamilyLifeToday.com; or call 1-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d Get a copy of either or both of Vicki\u2019s books, and start having these conversations with your kids.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOur hope, here, at FamilyLife is that these kinds of conversations that you get to sit in on and be a part of are providing you with practical biblical help and hope as you raise your kids. David Robbins, who is the president of FamilyLife is here with us. Wherever you are in your parenting or grandparenting journey, we need help; don\u2019t we?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> Yes; I feel it every day; that\u2019s for sure. I reflect back, listening to this conversation, on the months leading up to me becoming president of FamilyLife. Dennis Rainey was introducing me to a variety of influential Christian leaders. As I spent time with each one, I would ask them the question, \u201cFrom their perspective, what was FamilyLife\u2019s greatest contribution to the body of Christ and to God\u2019s kingdom?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne leader that I really respected, very candidly said: \u201cFamilyLife\u201d\u2014to him\u2014\u201cwas there to practically guide us in those moments and those places in life, where you just stop and go: \u2018Oh, boy. I\u2019ve never been here before, and I have no clue what to do.\u2019\u201d At FamilyLife, it is part of who we are to help you engage your closest relationships\u2014to help have conversations with your spouse and to, certainly, help you have conversations with kids\u2014those moments, where you go: \u201cOh, no! What do I do?\u201d\u2014we\u2019re here to help you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And you\u2019re exactly right. This is what we\u2019re all about, here, at FamilyLife\u2014to help you navigate these moments in a marriage and in a family when you need someone who can coach you\/who can offer practical biblical help and hope for your marriage and for your family. That\u2019s what FamilyLife is all about. We\u2019re grateful, by the way, for those of you who have partnered with us over the years so that we can reach more people, more often, and effectively develop godly marriages and families. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you can help with a donation today, we\u2019d love to say, \u201cThank you,\u201d by sending you a copy of my new book, which is called <em>Love Like You Mean It<\/em>. It\u2019s all about understanding love at a biblical level rather than thinking about it in cultural terms. I\u2019m convinced that, if couples can wrap their heads around a biblical view of love, they can have the kind of marriage that God has always intended for them to have; and it\u2019s a deeper level of love than most of us have every experienced in marriage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe book is our thank-you gift when you make a donation to support the ongoing work of this ministry. You can donate, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY to make a donation and get your copy of the book, <em>Love Like You Mean It<\/em>. Thanks, in advance, for whatever you are able to do. We appreciate hearing from you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we hope you can join us, again, tomorrow when we\u2019re going to talk about the challenge it is for a young person, who is growing up in a situation, where you spend a couple of weeks with mom and a couple of weeks with dad\u2014and they live in separate locations\u2014and maybe, there are stepparents involved. What happens when the values in the homes are different? That\u2019s what Melody Fabian experienced, and she joins Ron Deal tomorrow to talk about how she experienced that. I hope you can tune in. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<sup>\u00a9<\/sup>Song:\u00a0 <em>Treat Her Like a Lady<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tArtist:\u00a0\u00a0 Cornelius Brothers and Sister Rose\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAlbum:\u00a0 <em>Heart of Soul: Too Late to Turn Back Now<\/em> <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 1996 Capitol Records, Inc.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2020 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/306327","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=306327"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=306327"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=306327"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=306327"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=306327"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=306327"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=306327"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}