{"id":306277,"date":"2020-07-22T07:01:07","date_gmt":"2020-07-22T11:01:07","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/its-not-about-the-money\/"},"modified":"2020-07-22T07:01:07","modified_gmt":"2020-07-22T11:01:07","slug":"its-not-about-the-money","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/its-not-about-the-money\/","title":{"rendered":"It&#8217;s Not About the Money"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Do you and your spouse fight about money? How do you stack up to other couples in this area? Jeff and Shaunti Feldhahn share discoveries from their research and reveal the gender trends behind it all.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2020-07-22.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:29:13","filesize":"26.76M","filesize_raw":"28059252","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2851,2862],"tags":[4525],"podcast_series":[8374],"cwp_profile":[9006,3204],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-306277","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-finances","category-understanding-differences","tag-finances","podcast_series-thriving-in-love-and-money","cwp_profile-jeff-feldhahn","cwp_profile-shaunti-feldhahn","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/306277\/its-not-about-the-money","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/306277\/its-not-about-the-money","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"DGtHFTj2mJ\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/its-not-about-the-money\/\">It&#8217;s Not About the Money<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/its-not-about-the-money\/embed\/#?secret=DGtHFTj2mJ\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;It&#8217;s Not About the Money&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"DGtHFTj2mJ\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg",508,508,false]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"kfairris@familylife.com","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/kfairrisfamilylife-com\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"Do you and your spouse fight about money? How do you stack up to other couples in this area? Jeff and Shaunti Feldhahn share discoveries from their research and reveal the gender trends behind it all.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2020-07-22.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> When life gets stressful, husbands and wives often respond to that stress differently. Researcher and author, Shaunti Feldhahn, says when the stress is around money, those different ways of dealing with it can cause isolation in a marriage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shaunti:<\/strong> When you\u2019ve lived through times of economic uncertainty, like many of us have lived through, and when you talk to women, they are like, \u201cMy husband is walking around with the black cloud of <em>doom<\/em> over his head. He\u2019s stressed; and he\u2019s tense; and he\u2019s never here, and we\u2019re missing all this time as a family.\u201d The answer in a lot of men\u2014they are backing away from the cliff by spending a lot of hours at work or taking all the extra overtime hours they possibly can. Well, that takes them away from the family. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Wednesday, July 22<sup>nd<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I\u2019m Bob Lepine. You can find us online at FamilyLifeToday.com. Often, when there is conflict in a relationship about money, the real issue isn\u2019t the money; it\u2019s what the financial pressure is doing to <em>us<\/em>. We\u2019re going to talk more about that today with Jeff and Shaunti Feldhahn. Stay with us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. One of the misconceptions I think people have about issues related to money in marriage is that, if you have lots of money, you won\u2019t have money problems. You\u2019ve worked for years with professional athletes, many of whom, have plenty of money\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014and you\u2019ve seen them still have plenty of money issues in their marriage; right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Actually, Bob, it\u2019s true: \u201cIf you have more money, you don\u2019t have money problems\u201d; that\u2019s the truth. You didn\u2019t know that? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I didn\u2019t know! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I actually believed that; I actually had that [mentality]. I didn\u2019t know it as a child; but I really thought, \u201cIf you just have enough in the bank\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cyou\u2019ll have the security that, even if you have problems, they are not that bad.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou\u2019re exactly right, Bob\u2014working with millionaire athletes\/some of them multi-multi-millionaires\u2014it\u2019s no <em>different<\/em>; they have money problems\u2014it\u2019s spending or not having the money in the bank. There are fights; there are tensions; there are fears. It\u2019s really no different; is it? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; we\u2019ve seen that for years, so it\u2019s deeper than money, as we\u2019ve already been talking about. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We have been talking this week about money and love and how all of that works out. We\u2019ve got some friends\u2014friends of yours and friends of mine\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; they are friends of <em>all<\/em> of us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> We <em>all<\/em> love them. [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> How can you not be friends with the Feldhahns? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Jeff and Shaunti Feldhahn back with us on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Welcome back, guys. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeff:<\/strong> It\u2019s a pleasure. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I\u2019m thinking of how many of our listeners have benefitted, over the years, from the books that Jeff and Shaunti have worked on together. Shaunti started with <em>For Women Only<\/em> years ago. Then there was <em>For Men Only<\/em>, and then there was <em>For Parents Only<\/em>, and then <em>The Kindness Challenge<\/em>, and <em>Good News About Marriage<\/em>. I\u2019m thinking of all of the things we\u2019ve talked about over the years because you guys really are kindred spirits with who we are, here at FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>,\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shaunti:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014and our goal here at FamilyLife. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn writing this book, your goal was to help people pursue the goal of oneness\/pursue love in the midst of challenges that finances can throw our way and the issues that get revealed with that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeff:<\/strong> You know, it\u2019s interesting\u2014with your lead-in story about the professional athletes\u2014it <em>isn\u2019t<\/em> about the money, and you still have money problems if you are wealthy. There was one interesting thing that we <em>did<\/em> find out as far as there is a certain threshold of how much money and cushion that you have. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shaunti:<\/strong> What we found, actually, was interesting\u2014is it <em>doesn\u2019t<\/em> matter how much money you make\u2014because that\u2019s the big lie: \u201cIf we just had more, we wouldn\u2019t be fighting,\u201d\u2014you know, whatever. It turns out that\u2019s <em>not<\/em> true. It doesn\u2019t matter the <em>level<\/em> of income you make. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat matters, for your relationship, is whether you are living below that line. It matters whether you are building up some sort of a cushion and have some sort of margin. Because it turns out, it\u2019s not just protective for your finances to have emergency savings, for example; it\u2019s protective for your marriage, it turns out. If your car breaks, you don\u2019t start fighting with your spouse about whether you should have spent all their tips on that new pair of shoes; you know? It\u2019s wise for finances; but a lot of us didn\u2019t realize it was actually good for the marriage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe key, though, is that to build up a cushion, what we found is even <em>more<\/em> important\u2014that <em>trumps<\/em> building the cushion\u2014is being able to talk about it. You will find this fascinating, Dave, with all the multi-millionaires you guys have worked with over the years\u2014is that we actually found, statistically\u2014<em>if<\/em> you have more cushion, but yet <em>can\u2019t<\/em> talk about money, your relationship is <em>worse<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Wow. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shaunti:<\/strong> I looked at the statistics that came back on some of these spreadsheets and I went: \u201cWait; that has to be a calculation error. It\u2019s showing that your relationship, statistically, is <em>worse<\/em> than if you had way less money but you could talk about it.\u201d Ran it again; and nope, it was true. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I was in a small group study with couples, years ago, and we asked the question: \u201cIf things got really terrible, and you had to go into survival mode as a family, how much would you need just to survive?\u201d I said: \u201cWe\u2019re going to take your house out of the equation and figure you own your house, so mortgage is off the table.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shaunti:<\/strong> \u201cLet\u2019s just pretend you own your house\u201d; okay. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; this is: \u201cWhat do you need just to get by?\u201d I was curious to see as these numbers\/everybody submitted their numbers independently. The low number from the group was: \u201cWe could get by on $400 a month if we, in our family\/if we had to\u2014we\u2019re just down to: \u2018Okay; we\u2019re going to do mac and cheese and rice and beans. We\u2019re going to survive with what we\u2019ve got.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe high number was [$]3,000 a month: \u201cWe would need [$]3,000 a month to survive.\u201d I\u2019m thinking to myself: \u201cYou guys have no idea. There are people in the world who have never seen [$]3,000 a month\u201d\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014in their lifetime; yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cand you think that\u2019s what it would take you to survive? You have a miscalculation about what survival means.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut we all have that kind of calibration in our head, and this goes to something you talk about in the book. Some of this is not related to: \u201cHow much would I need?\u201d Some of this is: \u201cHow much would make me feel <em>safe<\/em>?\u201d When does fear kick into the equation? That\u2019s one of the key findings from this; right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shaunti:<\/strong> It really is. We found that, when you talk about\u2014like we said before\u2014when you are having the tension around money or avoiding it, it\u2019s not about the money; it\u2019s about all this other stuff. One of those other-stuff things is that it turns out that there is, under the surface, a very kind of hidden, I guess\u2014you don\u2019t necessarily talk about them\u2014is these fears, and worries, and insecurities that run under the surface. Half of the time, we don\u2019t even know they are there. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt turns out those\u2014even though we said earlier money things are not statistically gender-related most of the time at all\u2014there is one that is actually quite correlated with gender. It\u2019s not 100 percent of the time; we found, roughly about 70 to 80-ish of the time, men and women tend to have different insecurities and different <em>fears<\/em>. It\u2019s like a raw nerve that\u2019s being hit by the other person, because they <em>don\u2019t<\/em> have that same fear. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So what are guys afraid of? What does the research show? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shaunti:<\/strong> It shows that men\u2014the thing that is the most pulling at them is this feeling of: \u201cAm I going to be able to provide for the family?\u201d\u2014it\u2019s there <em>so deep<\/em>. It\u2019s almost like\u2014the analogy that we use in the book is it\u2019s like a cliff\u2014like you know that feeling, \u201cMaybe, I\u2019m the only one.\u201d But you know that feeling, when you\u2019re afraid of heights and you\u2019re standing on the edge of a cliff; and you sort of feel like it magnetically pulling at you. Like it\u2019s\u2014you\u2019re going to somehow fall over the edge and die, so you try to back away from the edge. You try to put a lot of distance so that you don\u2019t feel that pull, like it\u2019s about to happen. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMen and women tend to have two different cliffs. Men feel this: \u201cAm I going to be able to provide for the family?\u201d <em>pulling<\/em> at them. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Do you guys all feel that? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; oh, yes; sure. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeff:<\/strong> Oh; oh, yes. It\u2019s multiple times a day\u2014even though it wouldn\u2019t necessarily be something that I\u2019d be able to say, \u201cYes, it\u2019s in the front part of my brain\u201d; but it\u2019s <em>definitely<\/em> there in the back of my mind. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> It\u2019s always there. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeff:<\/strong> All the time. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It\u2019s amazing to me to think that women don\u2019t\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeff:<\/strong> Yes! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014have the same level of fear. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shaunti:<\/strong> Well, here is the thing. Women\u2014because some women listening to this might go, \u201cWell, I\u2019m just as worried about money,\u201d\u2014like, \u201cI\u2019m the saver; he\u2019s the spender.\u201d Yes, okay; that\u2019s a different thing; believe it or not. We can be just as likely to be worried about money and not have this gut-level sense we are about to die because this is a very guy feeling. Again, this is not 100 percent; this is like 70 to 80 percent. There are exceptions; but <em>most<\/em> of the time, the feeling in a man is, \u201cI\u2019m not going to be <em>enough<\/em> to keep my family from falling.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe, as women, tend not to have that. We may worry about the technicalities but not because, \u201cI\u2019m not enough.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So what\u2019s your fear\/for women? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shaunti:<\/strong> So, our cliff, it turns out, is not: \u201cAre we financially okay?\u201d\u2014but\u2014\u201cAre <em>we<\/em> okay? Am I <em>enough<\/em> to keep my husband engaged by me?\u201d\u2014like: \u201cDoes he <em>really<\/em> love me?\u201d \u201cAre the kids feeling loved?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you\u2019re in a season\u2014and this happens in normal prosperity times, much less when you\u2019ve lived through times of economic uncertainty, like many of us have lived through\u2014that there is in a lot of men\/they are backing away from the cliff by spending a lot of hours at work or taking all the extra overtime hours they possibly can in order to put distance. Well, that takes them away from the family. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen you talk to women, and they are like: \u201cMy husband is walking around with a black cloud of <em>doom<\/em> over his head. He is stressed; he\u2019s tense; he\u2019s never here, and we\u2019re missing all this time as a family,\u201d\u2014the answer to: \u201cAre we okay?\u201d is \u201cNo.\u201d So what a woman will often do, to try to build that <em>emotional<\/em> security in the relationship\/that sense that: \u201cWe\u2019re better,\u201d\/\u201dWe\u2019re okay,\u201d\u2014she\u2019ll want to <em>do<\/em> things together. She\u2019ll <em>want<\/em> to do things like go out to eat; she\u2019ll want to do stuff\u2014to go on vacation\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014to draw you <em>closer<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shaunti:<\/strong> \u2014to <em>draw<\/em> you closer. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, guess what? That stuff often involves spending money, so that pushes <em>him<\/em> closer to his cliff! So he tries to back away more and spend more hours at the office. Then she\u2019s like, \u201cWe need a bigger vacation.\u201d This is literally just us not recognizing\u2014like the guy not recognizing: \u201cWait; you mean you really <em>feel<\/em> like we might be pulled over the edge of our relationship and die?\u201d \u201cWait; just because I drove away angry, after that argument this morning, you really are worried?! It was just an argument.\u201d To <em>her<\/em>: \u201cNo; like this is a real thing.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> This explains so much. [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeff:<\/strong> Can I\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes, yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeff:<\/strong> \u2014share a quick, little story with you from our own life? I mean, our kids, now, are 20 and 17 years old. We\u2019re self-employed; we\u2019re entrepreneurs, so we don\u2019t have the typical\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shaunti:<\/strong> We\u2019ve been running this ministry for a <em>long time<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeff:<\/strong> \u2014we don\u2019t have the typical health insurance. It\u2019s basically every doctor\u2019s visit is out-of-pocket for us. We have high deductibles\u2014all that sort of stuff. Over the course of our marriage, as the kids are growing up, eventually, once every couple of months, a kid would come into our bedroom, late at night, and say, \u201cMom, my throat hurts,\u201d to which Shaunti goes into overdrive mode\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeff:<\/strong> \u2014and thinks, \u201cI need to call the pediatrician; take them to get a strep test in the morning.\u201d I\u2019m thinking\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes, yes. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeff:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cThe last ten strep tests have shown <em>negative<\/em>.[Laughter] So, therefore,\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Ching; ching. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeff:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cthis will likely be negative; and it will cost us $100 to find out that it\u2019s negative.\u201d [Laughter] I would tell her, \u201cLook, pioneer children didn\u2019t run off to the ER every time they had a sore throat.\u201d [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shaunti:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cand they died\u2014[Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeff:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shaunti:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cof rheumatic fever; they died.\u201d [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeff:<\/strong> It didn\u2019t work so well. I\u2019m still working on my next\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You need a better one.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeff:<\/strong> \u2014illustration for that one. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shaunti: <\/strong>\u2014pioneers!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeff: <\/strong>But what happens is\u2014what I didn\u2019t realize\u2014was that she was being <em>pulled<\/em> over her cliff that something is going to happen to the kids. She\u2019s letting all of these thoughts, that begin to cascade in her mind of all these awful things\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Sure. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeff:<\/strong> \u2014that could happen if we don\u2019t identify and get them better from this strep. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shaunti:<\/strong> And it\u2019s not just that. What I was willing to do was\u2014I was willing to pay money to really be reassured; to me, it\u2019s not wasted. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> It\u2019s worth it! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shaunti:<\/strong> It\u2019s totally worth it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeff:<\/strong> See, for me, I\u2019m thinking that that $100 spent in the strep test, coming back negative\u2014it was wasted\u2014not like I would have rejoiced if it would have come back positive, because I would have gotten our money\u2019s worth\u2014[Laughter]\u2014but nevertheless, I didn\u2019t struggle with the same things she was struggling with; so I didn\u2019t understand her motivation. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shaunti:<\/strong> You didn\u2019t know what I was paying for. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeff:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shaunti:<\/strong> I wasn\u2019t paying just for the strep test. I was paying to be reassured that they didn\u2019t have strep; and then I wouldn\u2019t have to spend the next couple of days, going: \u201cShould they be going to school?\u201d \u201cAre they infecting other people?\u201d \u201cIf they are staying home from school, I\u2019m going to have to get somebody to be with them, because I have a big business meeting I have to go to,\u201d\u2014blah, blah, blah\u2014like there are all of these things that pop up. Paying that money to be reassured that they are okay, and that I don\u2019t need to do all of that, is totally worth it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Young marrieds, I hope you are tuning in to this stuff; this is good. [Laughter] Even as you guys share that heaviness of providing, my heart wants to get beside you and partner with you. I think that that\u2019s really important, even for young couples. I\u2019m thinking, even as we coach these young couples and these young Shauntis and these young Jeffs, you know, what would you say to <em>them<\/em>, if you had to go back into your young years, what would you have done differently? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeff:<\/strong> Well, you know, quite frankly, what Shaunti actually <em>did do<\/em> a few of those times was: \u201cWhat is it? Okay; so this is what you are struggling with; this is what you\u2019re kind of fearful of happening. How can I alleviate that? What can we do? Let\u2019s sit down and be able to talk about some things that we spend money on that you think that I think is a necessity; but I would be fine with cutting it out of our budget\/cutting it out of our life. What are those things that will lessen that pressure on you that we have this nut to cover every month? How can we reduce the size of that nut for you?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shaunti:<\/strong> Well, and it wasn\u2019t just the technical thing. One of the things that made all the difference, Jeff said, is when he was working all these bazillions of hours in New York, trying to pay down our student loan debt\u2014I never saw him\u2014we were newlyweds; it was really emotionally difficult, as you can imagine. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFinally, he said, \u201cDo you think I want to be working this much? I\u2019m doing it <em>because<\/em> I care about you,\u201d\u2014right?\u2014which is what I wasn\u2019t feeling\u2014loved. I said, \u201cHoney, I want you to know\u201d\u2014because he\u2019s like\u2014\u201cYou wanted to live in a doorman building, and you wanted this, and you wanted that.\u201d I\u2019m like: \u201cHoney, I will go live with you on a farm in Iowa and be together. As long as we are together, I don\u2019t need the doorman building, and I don\u2019t need this. I want <em>you<\/em> more than anything you can provide.\u201d That changed his emotional, sort of, feeling of pressure to some degree. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeff:<\/strong> It\u2014and I believed her, and she <em>meant<\/em> it. I knew that she was for me and that she was willing to do <em>anything<\/em> to get me to a position, where I didn\u2019t feel that struggle as <em>intensely<\/em>. Now, it\u2019s just because of the way I\u2019m wired; I\u2019m going to <em>feel<\/em> it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeff:<\/strong> It\u2019s <em>there<\/em>; but its intensity was certainly lessened by that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shaunti:<\/strong> And it made you want to have that same kind of understanding back to honor some of the things that really mattered to me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> How beautiful it would be\u2014you know, if you think about Philippians 2; I\u2019m sure you remember that passage\u2014and Paul\u2019s writing this to a church about unity, but it\u2019s what we\u2019re talking about. Look at this: Philippians 2:1: \u201cSo if there is any encouragement in Christ, any comfort from love, any participation in the Spirit, any affection and sympathy\u201d\u2014look at this\u2014\u201ccomplete my joy by being of the same mind, having the same love, being in full accord and of one mind.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMan, of all areas of our marriage of being of one mind, it is\u2014like you said, it\u2019s not about money; but it is about money\u2014but it\u2019s understanding one another in regards to this area in our marriage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Do you think the enemy really tries to get a foothold in this area? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shaunti:<\/strong> Oh, I think it\u2019s <em>huge<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shaunti: <\/strong>When we talk about Satan being the prince of the power of the air, it\u2019s like I say something; it travels through the air; and suddenly, you hear something different\u2014[Laughter]\u2014like, \u201cI didn\u2019t mean it that way,\u201d\u2014like how often have we said that? That\u2019s why it\u2019s so crucial to <em>start<\/em> from the understanding and believe the best of the other person\u2019s intentions. They love you; they <em>care<\/em> about you\u2014you have to <em>assume<\/em> that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeff:<\/strong> Here\u2019s one of the advantages that we have as people of faith. People who don\u2019t have any sort of a faith relationship: they can take this information, and they can apply it in their marriage; and it will help. There are kind of techniques and tips that can be gained, and you can apply them; and it will help. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut how much <em>more<\/em> should we be <em>rejoicing<\/em> because we, not only have the research and the information, we have the Holy Spirit that is sent to lead us into all truth? That is truth about who God is\u2014but also about who my wife is; or who my husband, in her case\u2014we can rely on that Holy Spirit to help us understand and convict us when we are wrong. I mean, what an <em>amazing<\/em> thing to have! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I also think, you know, as I\u2019m old enough\u2014I think we all are; don\u2019t want to date us\u2014[Laughter]\u2014but I think\/I\u2019m guessing\u2014and granted I don\u2019t even know all of your story\u2014but at the end of the day, what I\u2019ve learned over 40-some years now, walking with Jesus and the Holy Spirit alive in my life, is all those fears I had about money, and not wanting to talk about it, and almost hiding in those and carrying it myself\u2014I look back now, and I realize; and I\u2019ve said it\/I\u2019ve preached it\u2014but I had to feel it and know it: \u201cGod can be trusted in our finances.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI can remember <em>all<\/em> those nights\u2014literally, cannot sleep, eyes wide open\u2014she is sound asleep beside me; she\u2019s not thinking about this\/worried about this. I\u2019m thinking\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I\u2019m only awake when our relationship isn\u2019t doing well.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shaunti: <\/strong>That\u2019s it! Exactly. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> That\u2019s true! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> She\u2019s awake <em>then<\/em>; but she\u2014I look over: \u201cHow in the world can she not be feeling the college: \u2018How can we pay for college?\u2019 \u2018How are we going to pay the mortgage?\u2019\u201d I look back; and I\u2019m like, \u201cEvery, single money fear\u2014God met,\u201d\u2014sometimes, in <em>miraculous<\/em> ways; but sometimes, it was I took a speaking gig or whatever\u2014but it was\/I look back and say, \u201cHe can be trusted.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to say that to <em>you <\/em>[the listener]: \u201cHe can be trusted.\u201d I know you are laying there in bed at night, just like me: \u201cHe can be trusted.\u201d Talk about it; you need to talk about it. It shouldn\u2019t be hidden; it should be talked about; but at the end of the day, you\u2019ve got to get on your knees and say, \u201cGod, please take care of us.\u201d I\u2019m telling you\u2014He will! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> My other thought, Dave\u2014which I think that is <em>so good<\/em> that you shared\u2014is I think, for me a lot of times, I needed to come to you and apologize\u2014like apologize like, \u201cI get it.\u201d I think maybe some of us, as listeners, can think, \u201cOh, I may need to go to my husband or wife and say: \u2018I just didn\u2019t get it. I thought this was about money, and it\u2019s much deeper. I\u2019m wondering if we can start a conversation.\u2019\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> If you take the assessment that is online, that will help you understand how you both think, and what your fears are, and what the issues are. I mean, some people are going, \u201cI\u2019m not taking that assessment, because that\u2019s just going to open a whole can of worms; and I\u2019d just rather sweep it under the rug.\u201d Well, okay; that\u2019s a strategy. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> How\u2019s that working for you? [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> But the other strategy is: \u201cLet\u2019s pursue the kind of oneness in our marriage that you were describing from Philippians 2.\u201d That\u2019s going to take being honest with one another, and opening up on some things, and confronting some things in our own lives; but look, the payoff there is worth it. That\u2019s what the book is all about; that\u2019s what the assessment is about\u2014is to help couples find love and money working together. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGuys, thank you for the book; and thanks for being here and helping us go through all of this. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeff:<\/strong> Thank you, Bob. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shaunti:<\/strong> Thanks. It\u2019s a pleasure\u2014always. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I hope our listeners will get a copy of your book. We\u2019re making it available this week to any <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listener who would like a copy. If you can help with a donation to support the work of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, the book is our way of saying, \u201cThank you for your ongoing support of this ministry.\u201d Again, the title of the book is <em>Thriving in Love and Money<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019d suggest this: in addition to the book, make sure you take the online assessment at FamilyLifeToday.com. That will give you insight into the different ways you approach money and think about money in your marriage relationship. Then the book is a great guidebook to help you have some good conversations about all of this. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, the book is our thank-you gift when you donate to support the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. We are listener-supported; your donations are what have made today\u2019s program possible. We want to say, \u201cThanks,\u201d in advance, for helping to make tomorrow\u2019s program possible when you donate today. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to make your donation to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. We look forward to hearing from you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDavid Robbins, who is the president of FamilyLife, is joining us here today. Money tension in marriage\/relationship tension\u2014this been an issue for you and Meg ever? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> I think money is always an issue in most marriages. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> It certainly has been for us at times. Yes; I want to admit that, at times, we find ourselves in that 70 percent, where we\u2019re not being intentional talking about it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob:<\/strong> Just stuff it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> We stuff it; yes. Right now, we\u2019re in a season where we\u2019re talking about it, because we\u2019re in the process of moving. There is house decisions, living out our values: \u201cAre we making wise investments?\u201d \u201cTo what extent do we want to put into it?\u201d \u201cTo what extent do we want to save?\u201d There is the whole reality that I have a really old car that I\u2019m just trying to make keep going and how we approach that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHere\u2019s the bottom line for us, though: we\u2019re going to prioritize oneness in our marriage. Money is more of a heart issue than a finance issue. Therefore, talking about money and continuing to cultivate oneness in that space is really important; because our view of money is a window into a <em>much deeper<\/em> part of our heart. It brings up issues of fear, and hopes, and dreams, and how we think reality works. For Meg and I, in this season, we are fighting hard not to let the enemy draw a wedge between us, like he would want to so much. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; this is where I think the assessment we\u2019ve talked about, that Jeff and Shaunti have put together on this issue, can help so many couples. Again, it\u2019s available online at FamilyLifeToday.com. I hope our listeners will take advantage of that resource and the other resources we\u2019re making available this week. Thank you, David. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow, we\u2019re going to talk about how we can lovingly correct our kids when they need correction, because there are times when they do. We need to make sure we are doing it in a way that\u2019s pleasing to the Lord. Sam Crabtree is going to be here to coach us through that. I hope you can be back with us for that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2020 FamilyLife. 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