{"id":306270,"date":"2020-07-20T07:00:04","date_gmt":"2020-07-20T11:00:04","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/why-couples-struggle-to-talk-about-money\/"},"modified":"2020-07-20T07:00:04","modified_gmt":"2020-07-20T11:00:04","slug":"why-couples-struggle-to-talk-about-money","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/why-couples-struggle-to-talk-about-money\/","title":{"rendered":"Why Couples Struggle to Talk About Money"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Jeff and Shaunti Feldhahn talk about why couples so often fight about money in marriage. The Feldhahns shed light on this and explain why just having conversations about money is the most stressful part.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2020-07-20.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:26:22","filesize":"24.14M","filesize_raw":"25308270","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2851,2862],"tags":[4525],"podcast_series":[8374],"cwp_profile":[9006,3204],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-306270","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-finances","category-understanding-differences","tag-finances","podcast_series-thriving-in-love-and-money","cwp_profile-jeff-feldhahn","cwp_profile-shaunti-feldhahn","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/306270\/why-couples-struggle-to-talk-about-money","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/306270\/why-couples-struggle-to-talk-about-money","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"OVYnKDYBjf\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/why-couples-struggle-to-talk-about-money\/\">Why Couples Struggle to Talk About Money<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/why-couples-struggle-to-talk-about-money\/embed\/#?secret=OVYnKDYBjf\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Why Couples Struggle to Talk About Money&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"OVYnKDYBjf\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg",508,508,false]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"kfairris@familylife.com","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/kfairrisfamilylife-com\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"Jeff and Shaunti Feldhahn talk about why couples so often fight about money in marriage. The Feldhahns shed light on this and explain why just having conversations about money is the most stressful part.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2020-07-20.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Okay; alright. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> No; I mean, honestly, we\u2019re going to talk about this today. It\u2019s a great topic to talk about, but it\u2019s something that\u2019s close to our heart. I bet you every couple would, at least, say, \u201cYes, we\u2019ve had some real doozies over this thing called money.\u201d Do you think? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I used to, at the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, say, \u201cThere are some people who believe that credit cards need fresh air and sunshine every day in order to\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; amen! [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cwhile other people\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019m married to her. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014\u201care more on the thrifty side of the street.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Is that\u2014okay; so now, we\u2019re seeing where the conflict comes in. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, you want to introduce who we\u2019ve got in the studio with us to help us with this discussion? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> We\u2019ve got Jeff and Shaunti Feldhahn in here, and they are our friends. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Welcome. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeff:<\/strong> Great to be here. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shaunti:<\/strong> I\u2019m sorry. We were trying so hard not to laugh\u2014[Laughter]\u2014as you guys were saying that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I also saw you elbowing each other. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; so are there similar patterns in the Feldhahn marriage to what there are in the Wilson marriage? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeff:<\/strong> Well, I like to think of myself as being <em>careful<\/em> with money; perhaps, <em>cheap<\/em> might be the other way of describing that. [Laughter] Shaunti has somewhat of another approach. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shaunti:<\/strong> I was fist-bumping Ann. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; she did. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shaunti:<\/strong> Yes; we did. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So you guys decided: \u201cWe\u2019re going to write a book about this topic called <em>Thriving in Love and Money<\/em>.\u201d Many know you as authors; you have sold many, many books. We, honestly\u2014<em>For Men Only<\/em>; <em>For Women Only<\/em>\u2014two of your best-selling books\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You guys just might have saved our marriage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Thank you!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shaunti: <\/strong>Ah, you\u2019re sweet. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014I don\u2019t want to say it out loud, but we\u2019ve plagiarized you <em>so many<\/em> times. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shaunti:<\/strong> You go do that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> But one of the things we love about you is your books are written based on data; you know? It isn\u2019t just opinions; it\u2019s data-based, and it\u2019s <em>so<\/em> true. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, we didn\u2019t even mention this\u2014I honestly believe the best teenage book I\u2019ve ever read for parents is <em>For Parents Only<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shanti:<\/strong> Well, thanks. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I quote it all the time and tell people to do it. We just wrote a book on parenting, and we used your material all throughout; hopefully, you\u2019ll get a footnote. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shaunti:<\/strong> That\u2019s great. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> How many books have you written? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shaunti:<\/strong> You know, somebody asked us that the other day. This is going to sound horrible; but I\u2019m not sure, actually. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You need to do a research project. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shaunti:<\/strong> Yes; I think, if you like count Bible studies and stuff, maybe, 25? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Wow. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That is amazing. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shaunti:<\/strong> Yes; it\u2019s incredible for me to look back. I mean, my very first book\u2014I sat here, in the studio, 22 years ago. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; hard to believe. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shaunti:<\/strong> Hard to believe what God has done. It\u2019s amazing. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Someone might think: \u201cOkay; the Feldhahns wrote a book on money and marriage. Is that because you have problems in your marriage about money?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeff:<\/strong> I\u2019ll let you start that one, Shaunti. [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shaunti:<\/strong> Actually, to be candid, this never was a topic we even had thought of studying, which tells you just sort of how backward we were in this area. This was the one area in our marriage, after all of these studies which we incorporated into our own, we were so not on the same page on this topic. We didn\u2019t really fight. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeff:<\/strong> Yes; we didn\u2019t fight; we just didn\u2019t <em>talk<\/em> about it. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shaunti:<\/strong> We didn\u2019t; we just avoided it <em>entirely<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> But you had strong feelings about it, based on your faces. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeff:<\/strong> Oh sure; sure. [Laughter] We had <em>assumptions<\/em> about what was going on inside that <em>other<\/em> person. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shaunti:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob:<\/strong> Somehow, you\u2019re managing it. I mean, you may have had strong feelings; were you having months, where you were looking at the checkbook, and going, \u201cWhoops,\u201d or not? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shaunti:<\/strong> Not really. It was more of a: \u201cYou do your thing over there; I\u2019ll do my thing over here, and we\u2019ll just sort of get\u2014we\u2019ll cope; we\u2019ll sort of get by,\u201d\u2014like we talk about it when we have to; but we really don\u2019t like it, because we have such different values in different areas. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> So how in the world did you write a book on this topic? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeff:<\/strong> Why don\u2019t you share that?\u2014because it really was a God-thing. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shaunti:<\/strong> And this was a\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Hey, Jeff, I\u2019m noticing something. You\u2019re throwing all the questions to Shaunti. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeff:<\/strong> I like it when she talks. [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shaunti:<\/strong> Well, to be candid\u2014this, really, honestly\u2014this was a supernatural story, because it was really clear; I feel like God <em>wanted<\/em> us to study this. After our last research-based book was done, we had <em>no clue<\/em> what we were supposed to do. This was the first time in 20 years that we had <em>no idea<\/em>. We started praying very specifically after the previous book launch. March 1 is when I went, \u201cLord, I have no idea.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMarch 9, out of the clear blue sky, we got a call from a company that we had actually never heard of at the time called Thrivent Financial. It\u2019s a financial services company that\u2019s sort of missional; and they said: \u201cLook, we are starting an initiative. We know that money is a huge issue in marriage, and we don\u2019t think it has to be. How would you feel about making this your next research project and us funding it?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Wow. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shaunti:<\/strong> We looked at each other. We started crying; because I\u2019m like, \u201cSo clearly an answer to prayer.\u201d Then we went, \u201cOh <em>shoot<\/em>.\u201d [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s what I\u2019m wondering, \u201cWas there this little sliver of fear that started to come up?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeff:<\/strong> Oh, absolutely. One\u2014I thought as we talked about it\u2014I said: \u201cYou know, we are the <em>perfect<\/em> people to do this. One because we want to get to the answers; we want to do the research; we want to be rigorous; and we\u2019re like case study number one of what <em>not<\/em> to do in how you handle money in a relationship so that your relationship thrives.\u201d Instead, we lived two separate lives\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shaunti:<\/strong> \u2014financially. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeff:<\/strong> \u2014along that way. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat would happen is\u2014even though it was two separate lives, it wasn\u2019t like it was neutral\u2014what would happen is: Shaunti would choose a particular course of action, usually around spending, and mine would be the other. I would have a certain temptation; I would literally, in my mind, would go, \u201cShe\u2019s doing that, because she has a character flaw,\u201d\u2014that\u2019s the bucket I would put it in because, certainly, not spending is the most godly way of approaching <em>anything<\/em>\u2014[Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Amen, brother. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeff:<\/strong> \u2014and it\u2019s the <em>right<\/em> way. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shaunti:<\/strong> It\u2019s really interesting\u2014that\u2019s what we were digging into in the research. It\u2019s not how to have a great budget\u2014because there are plenty of wonderful resources out there\u2014and you wouldn\u2019t want our advice on that anyway. This was: \u201cHow to have a great relationship around money.\u201d It comes down to\/it turns out: understanding all that stuff that you are thinking and all of these sort of underlying factors that are going on under the surface. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Did you have any idea that Jeff thought you had this character flaw? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shaunti:<\/strong> Oh, he had never put it that way. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shaunti:<\/strong> But you see the smirk on the face, and you see the \u201cWhat?!\u201d I would not have been able\u2014he would not have probably been able to articulate it that way until we started doing this. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeff:<\/strong> \u2014started doing the research. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shaunti:<\/strong> I would not have been able to articulate\u2014when you talk about, for example, that spender\/saver dichotomy\u2014which is, by the way, <em>extraordinarily<\/em> common in marriage\u2014because even when you have two savers, usually, one of them is more of a spender than the other\u2014so you almost always see this. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI wouldn\u2019t have been able to articulate: \u201cWell, yes; I want to be wise with money too, of course; but God also says that He\u2019s come to give us abundant life, and\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeff:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cand we can <em>trust<\/em> Him.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shaunti:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cand we can <em>trust<\/em> Him to provide. And what about that guy, who stored up all the money in barns, and then never got to enjoy it? Shouldn\u2019t we be giving ourselves some grace for that?\u201d I never would have been able to articulate that either. That was one of the things that was so transformative for us is\u2014suddenly, we had a language to talk about it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob:<\/strong> I remember talking to a wife, who was <em>so frustrated<\/em> with her husband. This couple was $25,000 in debt at this point in their marriage. It was a source of <em>great<\/em> anxiety for her, much less for him. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThey were at church; and there was somebody at night, who was talking about the work that they were doing in Africa. She watched her husband pull out the checkbook and write $100 check to support this work in Africa. She was <em>freaking out<\/em>, thinking, \u201cWe\u2019re $25,000 in debt, and you think God wants us to spend $100, helping people in Africa when I\u2019ve got credit card people calling me, saying, \u2018When is the next payment going to come due?\u2019\u201d This is how the reality of this works out in <em>so many<\/em> marriages. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shaunti:<\/strong> \u2014so many. Well, here\u2019s basically what we found: the bottom line that was <em>so helpful<\/em> is to recognize, \u201cIf you have <em>any<\/em> tension around money\u201d\u2014which most people do, not everybody\u2014\u201cif you have any tension about it, or avoid it, or whatever, it\u2019s <em>not<\/em> about the money.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; that\u2019s right at the beginning of your book. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> It\u2019s <em>huge<\/em>!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I want to know, \u201cWhat in the world does that mean?\u201d because you found that out from the research. If it\u2019s not about money, what\u2019s it about? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Could you analyze Dave and me while you do this too?\u2014[Laughter] because we need this. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeff:<\/strong> Of course! [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shaunti:<\/strong> Honestly, the thing that was really incredibly <em>powerful<\/em> for us was recognizing that it turns out: it\u2019s about how money makes you <em>feel<\/em>; and how it makes your spouse <em>feel<\/em>; and about all these expectations, running under the surface that you don\u2019t even know were there; and these worries, and insecurities, and beliefs about how money should work\u2014it\u2019s all of this other stuff. Once you understand that stuff\u2014it\u2019s really amazing how talking kind of comes <em>naturally<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeff:<\/strong> The fact is that most of us <em>don\u2019t<\/em> understand that sort of stuff. Statistically, \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t77 percent of couples\u2014the research found this\u2014couldn\u2019t talk about money or money issues without a level of tension and discomfort. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shaunti:<\/strong> So it\u2019s not just you guys. [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeff:<\/strong> For me, as a guy, when I would always hear, \u201cTalking about something helps,\u201d that really didn\u2019t help <em>me<\/em>; because in order to talk about something, one, I need to try to understand my spouse, which I found difficult in a lot of ways. But as a starting point, I had to understand <em>myself<\/em> in order to be able to articulate what I was feeling. I couldn\u2019t do that in this area. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt wasn\u2019t until all of the research\u2014all of the focus groups\/all of the interviews\u2014that I began to hear things from guys, all over the country, that I went: \u201cThat\u2019s <em>me<\/em>! That\u2019s what\u2019s going on inside of <em>me<\/em>. Now, I can talk about it.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shaunti:<\/strong> \u2014and women, too. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeff:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shaunti:<\/strong> One of the things we found is that there were very few things that were gender-related, by the way, in this. There were a few, but it is mostly non-gender-related. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; I know that we got to the point\u2014and again, I never got to the root of this\u2014we didn\u2019t talk about it, except in anger, which was sort of based in fear. Here\u2019s how bad it got for us; again, there wasn\u2019t a surplus of money. When we would pay the bills, back in the day when you wrote checks, I would literally hear Ann paying the bills\u2014the check ripping\u2014and I would have to leave the house; I couldn\u2019t hear that sound. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeff:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I got so scared; I got depressed; \u201cI\u2019m not sure these checks are all going to clear. I wish she was not even paying them\u201d; but of course, we have to pay them. Now, why is she paying them, by the way?\u2014because I can\u2019t even do it; right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Wait; wait. I was going to say\u2014the only reason I started paying the bills was because, when our kids were little, it was Christmas. I used to do our Christmas shopping for the kids in one day. I\u2019ve got this cart that\u2019s just jammed packed at Toys-R-Us or whatever. I get up there; you know, there is a line behind me. I\u2019ve been waiting in line. I get up there; I do my credit card. The cashier gives me this kind of embarrassed look; and she says, \u201cOh, I\u2019m sorry; that credit card didn\u2019t work.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, you\u2019ve got the people behind you; and I\u2019m starting to sweat a little. I hand her another credit card; she says, \u201cOh, I\u2019m sorry.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Okay; that\u2019s enough of that story. [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> So I have to <em>leave<\/em> my cart. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shaunti:<\/strong> Wow. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I go home; and I say to Dave, \u201cNothing worked; what happened?\u201d What happened was we had a bunch of bills that bounced, because there were insufficient funds; because Dave <em>hates<\/em> to pay the bills, because it creates so much stress. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeff:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shaunti:<\/strong> That is <em>so common<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shaunti:<\/strong> You would not believe how common that is. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So we didn\u2019t talk about it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> We just sort of fought little, snippy fights. Then I live in that world, like, \u201cIf we don\u2019t talk about it, that\u2019s okay.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeff:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Ann:<\/strong> So I said, \u201cLet me, at least, do the bills so that they are getting in on time.\u201d Dave would hear the rip and leave. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> That did force us to say, \u201cThis is something we have to talk about.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat does a couple do? How do they start talking about it? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shaunti:<\/strong> Well, the most important thing is to recognize, like I said, \u201cWhat\u2019s going on under the surface?\u201d We identified\u2014most of that, probably, not all of that\u2014but we identified five of these big factors\u2014I guess you\u2019d put it\u2014that tend to be very, very common with people. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s interesting, by the way, Bob, you said the thing about oneness. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shaunti:<\/strong> And that was one of the big factors. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Hey; hey, please don\u2019t\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Please don\u2019t give him\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014be blowing up his head right now. [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shaunti:<\/strong> Well\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> He\u2019s so smart; he already knew. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shaunti:<\/strong> He knows everything comes back to that; right? [Laughter] And it is really interesting\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> In what aspect? What do you mean about oneness? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shaunti:<\/strong> It turns out we are avoiding being one in marriage anyway, and it\u2019s coming out in how we handle money. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Wow. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shaunti:<\/strong> That example of Jeff and me sort of: \u201cI do my thing over here; you do your thing over here,\u201d\u2014I mean, literally, some young couples are like, \u201cCould you Venmo $52 for your half of the gas bill?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Wow. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Was that surprising for you to find out? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeff:<\/strong> <em>Huge<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeff:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shaunti:<\/strong> Yes; that really was surprising. It was just\u2014but it\u2019s taking it to the next level. It\u2019s really interesting. Some people, listening to this, may go: \u201cWell, that\u2019s not me; I don\u2019t have that issue with oneness. We share the same bank account.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMaybe, you don\u2019t; maybe, that\u2019s not a big issue for you; but maybe, ask yourself, \u201cDo you ever try to pull the Amazon package off the front step before your spouse sees it?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So they don\u2019t know what you ordered? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shaunti:<\/strong> That\u2019s the same level of\/ kind of just trying to do what you want to do that causes other people separate accounts entirely. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Why did you have to go there? [Laughter] That is just a little too close to home. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shaunti:<\/strong> Me too; <em>me<\/em> too. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Here is one of the things you said in the book\u2014you said: \u201cHere\u2019s the key. If you aren\u2019t thriving in the love part of love and money, it will be difficult to come together enough to do the money part well.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shaunti:<\/strong> Unfortunately, that right there is where a lot of people live\u2014where in sort of the church world\u2014it has been all about: \u201cHere is the technical ways you do a budget,\u201d\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shaunti:<\/strong> \u2014and \u201cHere is how you get out of debt,\u201d and \u201cHere are some of these principles for building up emergency savings.\u201d All of that is <em>awesome<\/em>; but what we found is that, if you can\u2019t talk about money to begin with, you don\u2019t do any of that stuff well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAll of that is predicated on the ability to talk about it, which, like we said, 77 percent can\u2019t do; 23 percent can. Like, the people who are listening to this who are in that 23 percent\u2014like you happily skip to budget meetings. I\u2019m so jealous of you\u2014I just really am\u2014but the rest of us, we need a little help. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You\u2019ve provided some help, not only in the book, but you\u2019ve got an assessment. In fact, we\u2019ve got a link on our website at FamilyLifeToday.com where people can go and spend a few minutes going through this and get an idea of where are the strengths and weaknesses, where are the challenge points\/the tension points. If you think, \u201cWe\u2019ve got tension here; but I\u2019m not exactly sure what it is, or why it is, or where it is,\u201d the assessment will help you put words to and categories to what it is that you\u2019re experiencing. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Let me just say\u2014I haven\u2019t taken the assessment\u2014but if you\u2019re thinking: \u201cI\u2019m not taking that assessment. I don\u2019t want to know because, if I know, then I won\u2019t like what I see.\u201d [Laughter] I\u2019ve learned enough to know this would be one of the wisest things you do, because it\u2019s going to start a discussion. Yes, it will be scary; it will awkward; it may be really hard. It may even\/you may end up in a fight at some point; but once you get a reality in front of you with your spouse, that discussion\u2014am I right?\u2014leads toward freedom. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeff:<\/strong> It does. You know\u2014I mean, I\u2019m like you, Dave, in that\u2014I kind of liked living in my world, where I was correct in my perceptions of how money should be handled and how Shaunti should adopt my view; but that\u2019s just not reality. What that does is it keeps us from becoming one. It keeps me from learning how God made this person that I\u2019m married to, so differently than me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Besides taking the assessment, give us a little baby step of: \u201cWhat\u2019s something we can do that would just get us started on the right path?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shaunti:<\/strong> Probably, let\u2019s start with taking an audit of where we really are in this oneness thing: \u201cHow much do we really kind of want to do what we want to do with money?\u201d\u2014the assessment, by the way, will help with that. But you won\u2019t just learn on that side\u2014like Dave, what you said, \u201cI don\u2019t want to know what I\u2019m doing wrong,\u201d\u2014it will also identify the things you\u2019re doing <em>well<\/em>\u2014like, \u201cWhat are your areas of strength that you want to keep going on?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhere are you starting? Because, if you guys know, we kind of want to do what we want to do; and that\u2019s a big area to work on. If you all can then go, \u201cOkay; are we willing?\u201d\u2014like especially during a time of economic uncertainty like what we\u2019ve been through\u2014I mean, seriously, a lot of people <em>have<\/em> to talk about money for the very, very first time. They\u2019ve learned that, but they don\u2019t know how. The place to start is going, \u201cAre we willing to do that?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s a good baby step. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It\u2019s pretty amazing in, as you look back, that God brings this money to you to do research. None of us knew what was about to come\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Shaunti:<\/strong> No. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014in our world; and now, you\u2019ve given a gift to the world to say, \u201cWe\u2019re <em>all<\/em> in a struggle\u2014<em>everyone<\/em>\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cand there\u2019s a gift to help you navigate where God wants you to go out of that.\u201d That\u2019s a blessing from God! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And to go, again, to FamilyLifeToday.com to take the assessment online to see how you think differently about money; and then to get a copy of your book, <em>Thriving in Love and Money<\/em>. In fact, we\u2019re making the book available this week to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners. If you\u2019d like to get a copy, get in touch with us; go to FamilyLifeToday.com or call 1-800-FL-TODAY. If you can help with a donation for the ongoing work of this ministry, we\u2019ll send you a copy of Jeff and Shaunti\u2019s book as our thank-you gift for your support of the work we\u2019re doing, here, at <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>The assessment is free online. The book is our gift to you when you donate to support the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Again, you can donate, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or call to donate at 1-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>I think what you guys have written about in the book is going to be a breakthrough for a lot of couples, who find themselves in conflict, and they think money is the issue. This is going to help them see there is more at play here than just your bank balance, so I hope our listeners will get a copy of the book. Again, it\u2019s our gift to you when you make a donation to support <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> this week. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBy the way, because we know that a lot of couples have been under a ton of stress in recent months, we put together, here at FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, an online resource that is called \u201cTaking Your Marriage from Good to Great.\u201d We\u2019re making this content free to anybody who\u2019d like access to it; you can go to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com. There are two online mini-courses: one about resolving conflict in marriage; one called \u201cLightbulb Moments in Marriage.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn addition, you\u2019ll have access to messages from Paul David Tripp, Gary Chapman, Voddie Baucham, and Juli Slattery as well as a number of downloadable resources available. All of these are designed to help you shore up the foundation of your marriage. If your marriage has experienced some stress and pressure\/if you\u2019ve felt that in your marriage, this is a way for you to breathe some fresh air back into your relationship. It\u2019s all available for free; it\u2019s the \u201cTaking Your Marriage from Good to Great\u201d resource. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>When you sign up to get the content, we\u2019re also going to automatically enter you in a giveaway. One couple is going to be chosen to fly to FamilyLife to sit in on a <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> recording session and then to have dinner that night with Dave and Ann Wilson. We thought it might be an extra incentive to try to get you to work a little bit on your marriage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGo to FamilyLifeToday.com to get access to the \u201cTaking Your Marriage from Good to Great\u201d; and then, maybe, we\u2019ll see you here as our guests for a <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> recording session and dinner out with Dave and Ann. Again, all details are available online at FamilyLifeToday.com. No purchase necessary; you can see all the rules online. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow, we want to talk, among other things, about whether our personal view of money and finances is shaped more by our life experiences or by our personality\/our temperament. Jeff and Shaunti Feldhahn will be with us again tomorrow. I hope you can be here with us as well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2020 FamilyLife. 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