{"id":306268,"date":"2020-07-18T07:00:06","date_gmt":"2020-07-18T11:00:06","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/grieving-the-loss-of-loved-ones\/"},"modified":"2025-05-13T16:51:14","modified_gmt":"2025-05-13T20:51:14","slug":"grieving-the-loss-of-loved-ones","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-this-week\/grieving-the-loss-of-loved-ones\/","title":{"rendered":"Grieving the Loss of Loved Ones"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">It&#8217;s a devastating loss when a loved one dies, especially when it is unexpected. Al Hsu talks about the complex grief he experienced when his father took his own life. Ron and Nan Deal talk about the sudden loss of their son, Connor.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>It&#8217;s a devastating loss when a loved one dies, especially when it is unexpected. Al Hsu talks about the complex grief he experienced when his father took his own life. Ron and Nan Deal talk about the sudden loss of their son, Connor.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294950,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"audio","audio_file":"https:\/\/d2c17sq0nj1f7e.cloudfront.net\/flw2020-07-18.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:28:00","filesize":"25.64M","filesize_raw":"26883105","date_recorded":"2020-07-18 07:00:06","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2847,2845,2879],"tags":[2343,4125],"podcast_series":[],"cwp_profile":[8854,3629,3300],"series":[10388],"class_list":["post-306268","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-death-and-dying","category-loss-of-a-child-life-issues","category-loss-of-a-child","tag-grief","tag-loss","cwp_profile-albert-hsu","cwp_profile-nan-deal","cwp_profile-ron-deal","series-familylife-this-week"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/10\/FLTW-Podcast-Cover-2-1400x1400-1-300x300-1.jpg?w=300","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/10\/FLTW-Podcast-Cover-2-1400x1400-1-300x300-1.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/dts.podtrac.com\/redirect.mp3\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/306268\/grieving-the-loss-of-loved-ones","player_link":"https:\/\/dts.podtrac.com\/redirect.mp3\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/306268\/grieving-the-loss-of-loved-ones","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-this-week","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"pODMDccF8v\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-this-week\/grieving-the-loss-of-loved-ones\/\">Grieving the Loss of Loved Ones<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-this-week\/grieving-the-loss-of-loved-ones\/embed\/#?secret=pODMDccF8v\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Grieving the Loss of Loved Ones&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"pODMDccF8v\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/flw\/flw2020-07-18.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/d2c17sq0nj1f7e.cloudfront.net\/flw2020-07-18.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<p><strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Have you ever ignored someone\u2019s pain or grief because you were afraid you didn\u2019t know what to say? Ron Deal says it\u2019s not helpful for anyone to ignore the obvious.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> If I walked in to work one day and said, \u201cHey, Michelle!\u201d and you turned to look toward me and I was missing a leg, how long would you go without ever just going, \u201cRon! What happened?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> That\u2019s exactly what has happened. There\u2019s been a huge amputation in this person\u2019s world. You can\u2019t just dance around it all day long.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Today, I\u2019m going to talk with my friend and counselor, Ron Deal, about grieving the loss of a loved one, on this edition of <em>FamilyLife This Week. <\/em><\/p>\n<p>Welcome to <em>FamilyLife This Week. <\/em>I\u2019m Michelle Hill. You know, grieving, whether over a lost expectation or over death\u2014it\u2019s painful. If you\u2019ve been there, or maybe you\u2019re there right now, you know that this loss can, in some ways, paralyze you. It weighs you down; it encompasses you; and it holds you back, or so it seems. If you\u2019re there right now, I want to gently remind you that you will one day be comforted, because that\u2019s what Jesus promised in Matthew. In Matthew, Chapter 5, verse 4, He says, \u201cBlessed are those who mourn, for they will be comforted.\u201d That\u2019s a <em>great <\/em>promise!<\/p>\n<p>You know, last year, I sat down with Ron Deal and talked about grief. Given the way things have been recently, I thought it would be a good idea to revisit our conversation. As you know, Ron is a therapist. He\u2019s also an expert on blended families. He gives leadership to FamilyLife Blended<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, and Ron also knows loss intimately, because he lost his son, Connor. We\u2019re going to talk about that later.<\/p>\n<p>But first, there\u2019s a grief that haunts me from time to time, and that\u2019s the loss of a family member, but not a loss due to death. I want you to join my conversation with Ron as we begin our time talking about the elusive losses, and then we\u2019ll talk about grieving actual death. Here\u2019s our conversation.<\/p>\n<p>[Previous Interview]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Michelle:<\/strong> My family has walked through what we would consider trauma and tragedy, although we have not gone through the death of a family member. We\u2019ve gone through a prodigal, who has walked out on the family. We have <em>no<\/em> idea where he is or where his family is\/his children are.<\/p>\n<p>We have had to learn a new normal. We\u2019ve had to learn a new normal without a small young family around our Christmas table. That\u2019s been hard to watch my parents grieve through that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Michelle:<\/strong> And there were so many times, at the very beginning with the pain that they walked through, of just going, \u201cGod, we know You\u2019re sovereign!\u201d This is where faith helped them through the pain. \u201cWe know You\u2019re sovereign; we know You\u2019re in control, but this is <em>not <\/em>how life is supposed to be!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Michelle:<\/strong> \u201cYou created us as a family of five, with three children, and now we are a family of four, with two children.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Michelle:<\/strong> \u201cWe are missing a son, a daughter-in-law, and two grandchildren.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Michelle:<\/strong> It\u2019s been <em>so hard<\/em> to walk through that. To help my parents, I have quoted Revelation so many times to them, saying, \u201cOne day, He will wipe away all of our tears.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Michelle:<\/strong> And yet that doesn\u2019t answer the question of the loss.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Michelle:<\/strong> That doesn\u2019t answer the question of, \u201cWhere is he?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> That\u2019s a good example of ambiguous loss: \u201cWe don\u2019t know. We sit at the table at Thanksgiving with more questions than we have answers. We don\u2019t know where to put this. Do we bring it up? Do we not bring it up? The last time we brought it up, it led to the big, long discussion, and somebody got mad, and somebody else walked out. I don\u2019t want to go there again, so maybe we should just <em>not <\/em>bring it up.\u201d \u201cWell, okay, we\u2019ve been together three times now, and we\u2019re still not bringing it up. Is it time?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>You know, I think those are all <em>really <\/em>challenging questions with a situation like that. Again, our Western view of grief is, \u201cWe should be able to control this somehow! We should be able to tackle this; pull ourselves up by our bootstraps, move on past it, get done.\u201d That\u2019s not the way it works!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> Sometimes, we live with the ambiguity. We wrestle, and we struggle, and we do the best we can.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Michelle:<\/strong> There\u2019s a gentleman who\u2019s been living with ambiguity for quite a while now. He\u2019s name is Albert Hsu. He lost his dad due to suicide. He\u2019s been asking some very tough questions, of course, because, \u201cWhy? Why would God take his dad?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Michelle:<\/strong> But \u201cWhy would his dad take his own life?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>[Previous <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em><sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Broadcast]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Albert:<\/strong> I don\u2019t think any of us ever fully get over anything like this. I was talking to another person, who lost their dad to suicide. She said, \u201cIt\u2019s been 25 years, and I still grieve him every day.\u201d Just this week, actually, I talked to another person who lost a friend in high school to suicide. There were some recent things that had just triggered some memories, and she\u2019s still grieving that particular loss in a very powerful way.<\/p>\n<p>It does stay with us for a very long time. It does change, though, over the years. When I lost my dad, in my 20s, I grieved him as a father at that stage of life. I wished he would have been there, present as a dad. But now, 20 years later, I grieve him in my 40s as the grandfather that my sons have never known. I lament all the birthdays, and celebrations, and family things that he was not part of. That\u2019s another layer of grieving that we do in this area.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> And any of us, who have lost parents for any reason, experience that level of grief. How is it compounded, do you think, for those when the grieving has a suicide connected to it?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Albert:<\/strong> Suicide heightens and intensifies the regular grief. If it\u2019s a child\/a teenager that dies by suicide, what would <em>already <\/em>be a very sad teen death, is heightened and even more painful\u2014teen suicide. It introduces all different layers of complexity as far as, not only is this person no longer with us, [but] it is also that we have to grapple with <em>how <\/em>they left us. If it had been a car accident, or cancer, or something like that, we could blame the drunk driver; we could blame the cancer.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Albert:<\/strong> If it had been a murderer, we could rage against the murderer. But in this case, our loved one died at his own hand. We grieve them with all the sadness, and love, and pain that would be normal; but we also rage against them, and we are angry with them. We hate them for doing this to themselves.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Bob, I\u2019m thinking, how prepared were you, in your early 20s, to come alongside Mary Ann\u2014me alongside Barbara\u2014if there\u2019d been a suicide? To even know\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014to know what to do!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014to even know what to say, how to be there, how to just provide that shoulder to cry on?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> I think that\u2019s where a lot of people feel inadequate in the moment, whatever age they are. When they hear about a friend, they go, \u201cI don\u2019t know what to say! I don\u2019t know what to do.\u201d And so, that\u2019s where they withdraw. So if you\u2019re coaching someone to know what to say or do, what do they say or do?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Albert:<\/strong> Well, one phrase or one question that has been helpful is, \u201cWhat do you want to remember about your loved one?\u201d because often, we are grieving in the moment. We\u2019re thinking about those awful last days\/those awful last moments, and we forget that is just only one chapter of a fuller life.<\/p>\n<p>If you are able to invite somebody to tell their story\/tell their family story and to practice remembrance. This is a very biblical practice of remembering how God has been faithful in the past; how this person has lived and loved. Their story is bigger than just how they died.<\/p>\n<p>My dad was a very private man. He was an introvert. I was impressed, at the funeral, how many people he was connected to that came and gave their tributes. All of our lives are interconnected in ways that we don\u2019t always realize. The impact and ripple effects that we have are significant.<\/p>\n<p>Losing my dad to suicide is the hardest thing I\u2019ve ever experienced, but I hope that it has changed me in a way that has made me more available to other people in their own grief and suffering.<\/p>\n<p>[Studio]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Michelle:<\/strong> That\u2019s Albert Hsu, and he has written a book about his father to help others walk through the suffering and the grief of suicide.<\/p>\n<p>[Previous Interview]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Michelle: <\/strong>Ron, just as we\u2019ve been talking through similar and different griefs, and similar and different pains, obviously we\u2019ve turned a corner now to talk about loss of a loved one.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Michelle:<\/strong> As I listen to Albert, I can\u2019t help but think of the <em>complexity<\/em> of the grief that he is walking through. He\u2019s walking through the loss of a dad that he dearly, dearly loved, but also, the questions of\u2014not just, \u201cWhy, God, did You take him away?\u201d\u2014but \u201cWhy?!\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> I think that\u2019s the layer that is so unique when there\u2019s been a suicide\u2014is making sense of the person, and why they chose to do that, and trying to understand their inner world, what was going on with them. I think sometimes, as believers, there are questions about eternity for them to complicate this. Sometimes, there\u2019s shame around how that person died that just makes you not want to tell the story, as if people would judge that loved one for their decision. Those are all things that I think drive people to be more isolated in their grief.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> And we, as the community of Christ, have to find ways to enter into their grief or, at least, give them the opportunity to share. I <em>loved<\/em> what he said as a suggestion: \u201cWhat do you want to remember about them?\u201d That just helps expand the thinking of the person\u2014not just remembering the suicide\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> \u2014but remembering their <em>entire<\/em> life. I think that\u2019s a helpful exercise for somebody to go through. I would caution our listeners: \u201cDon\u2019t ask that question to someone, <em>hoping<\/em> that that\u2019s going to somehow take their grief away.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> \u201cDon\u2019t think that that\u2019s a magic bullet and, somehow, that\u2019s going to move them into a better place; and they\u2019re not going to wrestle with this anymore.\u201d No; that\u2019s just going to be one layer to their journey and their experience. There\u2019s no silver bullet.<\/p>\n<p>Ask; talk; enter into their grief. Don\u2019t be afraid of listening. Michelle, if I walked in to work one day and said, \u201cHey, Michelle!\u201d and you turned to look toward me, and I was missing a leg, and I had crutches, and I\u2019m hobbling. How long would you go without ever just going, \u201cRon! What happened?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Right. I\u2019d be like, \u201cSomething\u2019s different! Okay, so what went on? What happened?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> Imagine how much emotional work it would take for you and me\u2014for us\u2014to work together\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Michelle:<\/strong> \u2014and ignore it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> \u2014occasionally or every day, and totally ignore it\u2014never, <em>never<\/em> bring it up. That\u2019s just stupid! I mean, when you say it out loud like that, that\u2019s exactly what\u2019s happening. There\u2019s been a huge amputation in this person\u2019s world. You can\u2019t just dance around it all day long. At some point, you need to step into that space.<\/p>\n<p>Now, that doesn\u2019t mean you\u2019re their counselor. It doesn\u2019t mean that you\u2019re trying to move into\u2014no! But you\u2019re being a friend, and you\u2019re acknowledging what is. Then, say to them, \u201cLook, I\u2019m more than happy to talk with you about this at any particular time that you wish. I realize it\u2019s very personal and private, but I just want you to know it would be okay with me if it\u2019s okay with you.\u201d You\u2019re still giving them permission to make a decision about what they share, and when, and how; but you\u2019re also setting up an environment where, if they need that from you, they can get it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> You know, if you enter into that space a few times, over time, you are helping to define for them your willingness to go there.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> And then they can be in charge of whether or not they go there with you.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Michelle:<\/strong> So is it okay if we talk about Connor?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes, yes. I love talking about Connor! Is it painful? Yes, but I <em>love<\/em> it!<\/p>\n<p>[Studio]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Michelle:<\/strong> We need to take a break, but when we come back, we\u2019re going to hear about Connor\u2014Ron and Nan\u2019s [second] son\u2014who tragically passed away when he was 12. Stay tuned. We\u2019ll talk about Connor next.<\/p>\n<p>[Radio Station Spot Break]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Michelle: <\/strong>Welcome back to <em>FamilyLife This Week<\/em>. I'm Michelle Hill. Today, we\u2019ve been talking with Ron Deal about grief and loss. This is an issue that Ron knows well. He and his wife, Nan, lost their son, Connor, when he was just 12 years old.<\/p>\n<p>[Previous Interview]<\/p>\n<p>Let\u2019s actually start our time talking about Connor, by going back to an interview that you had with Dennis Rainey and Bob Lepine. Your wife Nan also joined you; so let\u2019s start our time off that way.<\/p>\n<p>[Previous <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>Broadcast]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> I can\u2019t say enough about how people came alongside us. We haven\u2019t mentioned my sister, who, the first year after Connor died, flew halfway across the country\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> \u2014every month!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> \u2014and spent time in our home. When Aunt Cherilyn would show up, our other two boys would say, \u201cOh! We get to eat!\u201d [Laughter] I mean, we forgot to feed our kids, guys. We were in <em>such<\/em> grief and just paralyzed. We didn\u2019t <em>function<\/em> for two years, as parents.<\/p>\n<p>I mean, if there\u2019s a call I have on my heart to the church\/to people listening right now, it\u2019s like, you know somebody who\u2019s gone through a <em>significant<\/em> loss in their life. Please bring it up! Please ask how they\u2019re doing. Please say the name of the person you know they\u2019ve lost.<\/p>\n<p>This is a marathon, not a sprint; and they need you at mile five, and at mile ten, and at mile twenty; not just at mile one. You <em>have to<\/em> walk alongside people. And the church, honestly, has to find ways of coming alongside people, so that we don\u2019t just throw platitudes and a good funeral, and feed them for six weeks, and then abandon them to figure it out.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> I have sat with so many grieving parents, and it\u2019s the same story, either in their community or their faith community. They\u2019ve just been lost or left. I know it\u2019s a hard loss to face. I know that it\u2019s difficult when it is a child, but it is a common tale for all of us, and it\u2019s isolating. I think the church, and the Christian community, and the Western world could do a better job with grief.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis:<\/strong> There\u2019s something you said earlier: \u201cLeave a legacy that matches the depths of your pain.\u201d I think that is a <em>great<\/em> challenge! To that person who\u2019s lost a loved one, take a step back and go, \u201cWhat\u2019s the level of my pain?\u201d And then begin to ask God, \u201cWould You show me how I can honor the life that I experienced with this person by matching that depth with a glorious declaration of God\u2019s grace? Of doing something positive for other people, and not to take your eyes off yourself so that you stop grieving\u2014keep doing that\u2014but get your eyes focused on the horizon to think, \u2018Who can we help?\u2019\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I <em>love<\/em> it that you\u2019re helping kids in Africa.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> Dennis, I have a video on my phone of my wife picking up a ten-year-old child, carrying him out of a village in West Africa, across a lake on a boat to safety, where that child is now growing up today cared for, getting educated, and learning about the Lord. [Emotion in voice] Every time I think about how Connor was taken, I think about her taking back that child.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> It reminds me that, even though we sometimes feel alone in our grief, like, \u201cGod, where are You?\u201d I want people to remember that God is <em>always<\/em> working behind the scenes. He is <em>always<\/em> orchestrating on our behalf, and He is weeping with us over the things that we weep about\u2014that <em>should not be<\/em>! He didn\u2019t create death; He didn\u2019t create things like this to happen. It just does. He\u2019s sad with us, and He has <em>not<\/em> forgotten us.<\/p>\n<p>[Previous Interview]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Michelle:<\/strong> That\u2019s Ron and Nan Deal sharing about the loss of their son, Connor. Ron, thank you to you and Nan for being so vulnerable in sharing with us, because I think that that helps us who have lost, but also helps us who haven\u2019t lost, to understand how we can come alongside.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Michelle:<\/strong> There was a part in there, where Dennis was talking about how you got your eyes off yourself and you were able to get them on the horizon.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Michelle:<\/strong> How hard was that to do?\u2014to get your eyes on the horizon? Because your other two sons didn\u2019t eat for a while! [Laughter] I mean, you admitted that!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes, we weren\u2019t functioning, in many ways.<\/p>\n<p>You know, it\u2019s interesting, Michelle. For us in our journey, it didn\u2019t turn out to be too difficult to do that. It\u2019s not to our credit, but it\u2019s to the credit of some people who came alongside us. About a year in, we had some people come alongside us that had also lost a child and had found their way through their pain by doing for others.<\/p>\n<p>We didn\u2019t realize they were mentoring us into this, but they were. It was a byproduct. They basically were just loving on us\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> \u2014as fellow parents who have lost a child, and introduced us into a community of parents who do that. We got into serving trafficked kids in Ghana, West Africa, because of how others showed us this road. That\u2019s one reason we\u2019re so passionate about talking about it, because we know what it\u2019s done for us. We\u2019ve seen what it\u2019s done for others. I just think it is one of the pieces to help us grieve.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Yes. How is this\u2014I guess, legacy that Connor left\u2014how is this living out now?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> Well, it continues. Nan and I go to Ghana every year; physically, we go. Sometimes we take a team of people, who are pouring into the children for a short period of time. We have an ongoing therapeutic arts center there that we support. We provide, kind of, management from the United States point of view in funding and just helping to give guidance to the work that\u2019s happening there on an ongoing basis.<\/p>\n<p>By the way, our arts center has now been the inspiration for three more. What we did for Connor and those children, we didn\u2019t know would expand. [Emotion in voice] Connor really loved little kids. He never went to Ghana. He never went to Cambodia or Thailand, but I know he loves this!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> So the definition of grace is giving you what you don\u2019t deserve, and giving you more than that\u2014things you couldn\u2019t even imagine. [Emotion in voice] I never wanted this road, but if I\u2019ve got to walk it, I\u2019m going to do something with it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> And what God has done is <em>far more<\/em> than I ever dreamed.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Michelle:<\/strong> What do you remember most about Connor?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> Where do I start?! He was our creative kid. He thought in colors and design, and building and constructing, and narrating and writing stories, creating movies; you know? We used to see him jumping around on the trampoline in the backyard. We\u2019d be like, \u201cConnor, what are you doing?\u201d He goes, \u201cWait! Just wait, Dad. Let me finish!\u201d [Laughter] I would wait there, and he would come around, and he goes, \u201cI was orchestrating a fight scene for my movie that I\u2019m going to create one day.\u201d [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>You know, he was always creating stuff and imagining. He saw things in people. He was insightful, intuitive. Hated vegetables\u2014[Laughter]\u2014we used to have those battles all the time: \u201cYou\u2019re not leaving the table until you finish some green beans.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Michelle:<\/strong> \u201cNo, no, no!\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> He was, at times, very selfish. He recognized that, and he started working on that\/praying about that. And he could sing; he could sing!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Ron, thank you for your transparency. Thank you for helping us, today, understand pain and loss, and helping us learn how to rest with others.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Michelle:<\/strong> And learn how to listen well, and learn how to process well.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> Well, I appreciate you asking, and let\u2019s just help the listener learn something from what you\u2019ve been doing the last ten minutes.<\/p>\n<p>(A), you asked me, \u201cIs it okay to talk about Connor?\u201d You gave me that power, and I said, \u201cYes.\u201d And then, as we started talking, and I started crying, and I needed time to get through a sentence or two, you gave me space, and you gave me an opportunity. You slowed down; you were patient. You didn\u2019t rush me. You didn\u2019t change the subject to relieve my tears, as if that would be helpful.<\/p>\n<p>You just sat in the space, and you let me cry. You cried a little along with me, and that is how grief gets processed: in community with others, putting words on it; and sometimes the words are crazy and irrational.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> And yet, I shared that with you and with the listeners, and that somehow helps. I don\u2019t even know that I can explain how that helps, but I believe it has something to do with how God has created us to live life and exist in community. As made in His image\u2014He is a communal being, the trinity of God Himself. We, too, are made in that. It\u2019s only in the expression of hard things, in the midst of community, that we can find any sort of sense of resolution about it\/perspective about it, and somehow, it is lessened. You just took a little of my pain and carried it with me.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> Thank you.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Michelle:<\/strong> You\u2019re welcome.<\/p>\n<p>[Studio]<\/p>\n<p>Wow; that was a difficult conversation, but I really enjoyed hearing Ron\u2019s perspective on grief and loss. If you would like to hear the full interview of Ron and Nan Deal with Dennis Rainey and Bob Lepine, go to our website. We\u2019ll have a link there: FamilyLifeThisWeek.com; that\u2019s FamilyLifeThisWeek.com.<\/p>\n<p>You know, grief and loss are very difficult things. They\u2019re hard to walk through and, really, we\u2019re not made to walk through these things alone. We need community. We need others who will uphold us, who will encourage us in our faith, and who will keep reminding us of the hope that we have in Christ.<\/p>\n<p>Once again, I just want to remind you that at our website\u2014FamilyLifeThisWeek.com\u2014we have other helpful resources for grief. We have the three-day series that Ron and I did on grief\u2014on elusive grief and on other griefs\u2014so go to our website, FamilyLifeThisWeek.com.<\/p>\n<p>Hey, thanks for listening! I want to thank the president of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, David Robbins, along with our station partners around the country. A big \u201cThank you!\u201d to our engineer today, Keith Lynch. Thanks to our producer, Marques Holt. Justin Adams is our mastering engineer, and Megan Martin is our faithful production coordinator.<\/p>\n<p>Our program is a production of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, and our mission is to effectively develop godly families who change the world one home at a time.<\/p>\n<p>I'm Michelle Hill, inviting you to join us again next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife This Week.<\/em><\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>We are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"blank\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?<\/p>\n<p>Copyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2020 FamilyLife. 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});\";s:18:\"current_block_list\";a:17:{i:0;s:14:\"core\/paragraph\";i:1;s:14:\"uagb\/container\";i:2;s:12:\"core\/heading\";i:3;s:9:\"core\/html\";i:4;s:10:\"core\/group\";i:7;s:21:\"uagb\/advanced-heading\";i:8;s:14:\"uagb\/separator\";i:9;s:14:\"uagb\/icon-list\";i:10;s:20:\"uagb\/icon-list-child\";i:11;s:11:\"core\/search\";i:14;s:18:\"core\/legacy-widget\";i:17;s:10:\"uagb\/image\";i:18;s:17:\"core\/social-links\";i:19;s:16:\"core\/social-link\";i:20;s:30:\"meta-box\/fl-conditional-blocks\";i:21;s:12:\"uagb\/buttons\";i:22;s:18:\"uagb\/buttons-child\";}s:8:\"uag_flag\";b:1;s:11:\"uag_version\";i:1776470598;s:6:\"gfonts\";a:1:{s:7:\"Default\";a:2:{s:10:\"fontfamily\";s:7:\"Default\";s:12:\"fontvariants\";a:0:{}}}s:10:\"gfonts_url\";s:71:\"\/\/fonts.googleapis.com\/css?family=Default&subset=latin&display=fallback\";s:12:\"gfonts_files\";a:0:{}s:14:\"uag_faq_layout\";b:0;}"]},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/10\/FLTW-Podcast-Cover-2-1400x1400-1-300x300-1.jpg",300,300,false]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"kfairris@familylife.com","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/kfairrisfamilylife-com\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"It's a devastating loss when a loved one dies, especially when it is unexpected. Al Hsu talks about the complex grief he experienced when his father took his own life. Ron and Nan Deal talk about the sudden loss of their son, Connor.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/flw\/flw2020-07-18.pdf","transcript_content":"<p><strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Have you ever ignored someone\u2019s pain or grief because you were afraid you didn\u2019t know what to say? Ron Deal says it\u2019s not helpful for anyone to ignore the obvious.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> If I walked in to work one day and said, \u201cHey, Michelle!\u201d and you turned to look toward me and I was missing a leg, how long would you go without ever just going, \u201cRon! What happened?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> That\u2019s exactly what has happened. There\u2019s been a huge amputation in this person\u2019s world. You can\u2019t just dance around it all day long.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Today, I\u2019m going to talk with my friend and counselor, Ron Deal, about grieving the loss of a loved one, on this edition of <em>FamilyLife This Week. <\/em><\/p>\n<p>Welcome to <em>FamilyLife This Week. <\/em>I\u2019m Michelle Hill. You know, grieving, whether over a lost expectation or over death\u2014it\u2019s painful. If you\u2019ve been there, or maybe you\u2019re there right now, you know that this loss can, in some ways, paralyze you. It weighs you down; it encompasses you; and it holds you back, or so it seems. If you\u2019re there right now, I want to gently remind you that you will one day be comforted, because that\u2019s what Jesus promised in Matthew. In Matthew, Chapter 5, verse 4, He says, \u201cBlessed are those who mourn, for they will be comforted.\u201d That\u2019s a <em>great <\/em>promise!<\/p>\n<p>You know, last year, I sat down with Ron Deal and talked about grief. Given the way things have been recently, I thought it would be a good idea to revisit our conversation. As you know, Ron is a therapist. He\u2019s also an expert on blended families. He gives leadership to FamilyLife Blended<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, and Ron also knows loss intimately, because he lost his son, Connor. We\u2019re going to talk about that later.<\/p>\n<p>But first, there\u2019s a grief that haunts me from time to time, and that\u2019s the loss of a family member, but not a loss due to death. I want you to join my conversation with Ron as we begin our time talking about the elusive losses, and then we\u2019ll talk about grieving actual death. Here\u2019s our conversation.<\/p>\n<p>[Previous Interview]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Michelle:<\/strong> My family has walked through what we would consider trauma and tragedy, although we have not gone through the death of a family member. We\u2019ve gone through a prodigal, who has walked out on the family. We have <em>no<\/em> idea where he is or where his family is\/his children are.<\/p>\n<p>We have had to learn a new normal. We\u2019ve had to learn a new normal without a small young family around our Christmas table. That\u2019s been hard to watch my parents grieve through that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Michelle:<\/strong> And there were so many times, at the very beginning with the pain that they walked through, of just going, \u201cGod, we know You\u2019re sovereign!\u201d This is where faith helped them through the pain. \u201cWe know You\u2019re sovereign; we know You\u2019re in control, but this is <em>not <\/em>how life is supposed to be!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Michelle:<\/strong> \u201cYou created us as a family of five, with three children, and now we are a family of four, with two children.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Michelle:<\/strong> \u201cWe are missing a son, a daughter-in-law, and two grandchildren.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Michelle:<\/strong> It\u2019s been <em>so hard<\/em> to walk through that. To help my parents, I have quoted Revelation so many times to them, saying, \u201cOne day, He will wipe away all of our tears.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Michelle:<\/strong> And yet that doesn\u2019t answer the question of the loss.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Michelle:<\/strong> That doesn\u2019t answer the question of, \u201cWhere is he?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> That\u2019s a good example of ambiguous loss: \u201cWe don\u2019t know. We sit at the table at Thanksgiving with more questions than we have answers. We don\u2019t know where to put this. Do we bring it up? Do we not bring it up? The last time we brought it up, it led to the big, long discussion, and somebody got mad, and somebody else walked out. I don\u2019t want to go there again, so maybe we should just <em>not <\/em>bring it up.\u201d \u201cWell, okay, we\u2019ve been together three times now, and we\u2019re still not bringing it up. Is it time?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>You know, I think those are all <em>really <\/em>challenging questions with a situation like that. Again, our Western view of grief is, \u201cWe should be able to control this somehow! We should be able to tackle this; pull ourselves up by our bootstraps, move on past it, get done.\u201d That\u2019s not the way it works!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> Sometimes, we live with the ambiguity. We wrestle, and we struggle, and we do the best we can.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Michelle:<\/strong> There\u2019s a gentleman who\u2019s been living with ambiguity for quite a while now. He\u2019s name is Albert Hsu. He lost his dad due to suicide. He\u2019s been asking some very tough questions, of course, because, \u201cWhy? Why would God take his dad?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Michelle:<\/strong> But \u201cWhy would his dad take his own life?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>[Previous <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em><sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Broadcast]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Albert:<\/strong> I don\u2019t think any of us ever fully get over anything like this. I was talking to another person, who lost their dad to suicide. She said, \u201cIt\u2019s been 25 years, and I still grieve him every day.\u201d Just this week, actually, I talked to another person who lost a friend in high school to suicide. There were some recent things that had just triggered some memories, and she\u2019s still grieving that particular loss in a very powerful way.<\/p>\n<p>It does stay with us for a very long time. It does change, though, over the years. When I lost my dad, in my 20s, I grieved him as a father at that stage of life. I wished he would have been there, present as a dad. But now, 20 years later, I grieve him in my 40s as the grandfather that my sons have never known. I lament all the birthdays, and celebrations, and family things that he was not part of. That\u2019s another layer of grieving that we do in this area.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> And any of us, who have lost parents for any reason, experience that level of grief. How is it compounded, do you think, for those when the grieving has a suicide connected to it?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Albert:<\/strong> Suicide heightens and intensifies the regular grief. If it\u2019s a child\/a teenager that dies by suicide, what would <em>already <\/em>be a very sad teen death, is heightened and even more painful\u2014teen suicide. It introduces all different layers of complexity as far as, not only is this person no longer with us, [but] it is also that we have to grapple with <em>how <\/em>they left us. If it had been a car accident, or cancer, or something like that, we could blame the drunk driver; we could blame the cancer.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Albert:<\/strong> If it had been a murderer, we could rage against the murderer. But in this case, our loved one died at his own hand. We grieve them with all the sadness, and love, and pain that would be normal; but we also rage against them, and we are angry with them. We hate them for doing this to themselves.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Bob, I\u2019m thinking, how prepared were you, in your early 20s, to come alongside Mary Ann\u2014me alongside Barbara\u2014if there\u2019d been a suicide? To even know\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014to know what to do!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014to even know what to say, how to be there, how to just provide that shoulder to cry on?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> I think that\u2019s where a lot of people feel inadequate in the moment, whatever age they are. When they hear about a friend, they go, \u201cI don\u2019t know what to say! I don\u2019t know what to do.\u201d And so, that\u2019s where they withdraw. So if you\u2019re coaching someone to know what to say or do, what do they say or do?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Albert:<\/strong> Well, one phrase or one question that has been helpful is, \u201cWhat do you want to remember about your loved one?\u201d because often, we are grieving in the moment. We\u2019re thinking about those awful last days\/those awful last moments, and we forget that is just only one chapter of a fuller life.<\/p>\n<p>If you are able to invite somebody to tell their story\/tell their family story and to practice remembrance. This is a very biblical practice of remembering how God has been faithful in the past; how this person has lived and loved. Their story is bigger than just how they died.<\/p>\n<p>My dad was a very private man. He was an introvert. I was impressed, at the funeral, how many people he was connected to that came and gave their tributes. All of our lives are interconnected in ways that we don\u2019t always realize. The impact and ripple effects that we have are significant.<\/p>\n<p>Losing my dad to suicide is the hardest thing I\u2019ve ever experienced, but I hope that it has changed me in a way that has made me more available to other people in their own grief and suffering.<\/p>\n<p>[Studio]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Michelle:<\/strong> That\u2019s Albert Hsu, and he has written a book about his father to help others walk through the suffering and the grief of suicide.<\/p>\n<p>[Previous Interview]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Michelle: <\/strong>Ron, just as we\u2019ve been talking through similar and different griefs, and similar and different pains, obviously we\u2019ve turned a corner now to talk about loss of a loved one.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Michelle:<\/strong> As I listen to Albert, I can\u2019t help but think of the <em>complexity<\/em> of the grief that he is walking through. He\u2019s walking through the loss of a dad that he dearly, dearly loved, but also, the questions of\u2014not just, \u201cWhy, God, did You take him away?\u201d\u2014but \u201cWhy?!\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> I think that\u2019s the layer that is so unique when there\u2019s been a suicide\u2014is making sense of the person, and why they chose to do that, and trying to understand their inner world, what was going on with them. I think sometimes, as believers, there are questions about eternity for them to complicate this. Sometimes, there\u2019s shame around how that person died that just makes you not want to tell the story, as if people would judge that loved one for their decision. Those are all things that I think drive people to be more isolated in their grief.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> And we, as the community of Christ, have to find ways to enter into their grief or, at least, give them the opportunity to share. I <em>loved<\/em> what he said as a suggestion: \u201cWhat do you want to remember about them?\u201d That just helps expand the thinking of the person\u2014not just remembering the suicide\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> \u2014but remembering their <em>entire<\/em> life. I think that\u2019s a helpful exercise for somebody to go through. I would caution our listeners: \u201cDon\u2019t ask that question to someone, <em>hoping<\/em> that that\u2019s going to somehow take their grief away.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> \u201cDon\u2019t think that that\u2019s a magic bullet and, somehow, that\u2019s going to move them into a better place; and they\u2019re not going to wrestle with this anymore.\u201d No; that\u2019s just going to be one layer to their journey and their experience. There\u2019s no silver bullet.<\/p>\n<p>Ask; talk; enter into their grief. Don\u2019t be afraid of listening. Michelle, if I walked in to work one day and said, \u201cHey, Michelle!\u201d and you turned to look toward me, and I was missing a leg, and I had crutches, and I\u2019m hobbling. How long would you go without ever just going, \u201cRon! What happened?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Right. I\u2019d be like, \u201cSomething\u2019s different! Okay, so what went on? What happened?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> Imagine how much emotional work it would take for you and me\u2014for us\u2014to work together\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Michelle:<\/strong> \u2014and ignore it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> \u2014occasionally or every day, and totally ignore it\u2014never, <em>never<\/em> bring it up. That\u2019s just stupid! I mean, when you say it out loud like that, that\u2019s exactly what\u2019s happening. There\u2019s been a huge amputation in this person\u2019s world. You can\u2019t just dance around it all day long. At some point, you need to step into that space.<\/p>\n<p>Now, that doesn\u2019t mean you\u2019re their counselor. It doesn\u2019t mean that you\u2019re trying to move into\u2014no! But you\u2019re being a friend, and you\u2019re acknowledging what is. Then, say to them, \u201cLook, I\u2019m more than happy to talk with you about this at any particular time that you wish. I realize it\u2019s very personal and private, but I just want you to know it would be okay with me if it\u2019s okay with you.\u201d You\u2019re still giving them permission to make a decision about what they share, and when, and how; but you\u2019re also setting up an environment where, if they need that from you, they can get it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> You know, if you enter into that space a few times, over time, you are helping to define for them your willingness to go there.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> And then they can be in charge of whether or not they go there with you.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Michelle:<\/strong> So is it okay if we talk about Connor?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes, yes. I love talking about Connor! Is it painful? Yes, but I <em>love<\/em> it!<\/p>\n<p>[Studio]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Michelle:<\/strong> We need to take a break, but when we come back, we\u2019re going to hear about Connor\u2014Ron and Nan\u2019s [second] son\u2014who tragically passed away when he was 12. Stay tuned. We\u2019ll talk about Connor next.<\/p>\n<p>[Radio Station Spot Break]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Michelle: <\/strong>Welcome back to <em>FamilyLife This Week<\/em>. I'm Michelle Hill. Today, we\u2019ve been talking with Ron Deal about grief and loss. This is an issue that Ron knows well. He and his wife, Nan, lost their son, Connor, when he was just 12 years old.<\/p>\n<p>[Previous Interview]<\/p>\n<p>Let\u2019s actually start our time talking about Connor, by going back to an interview that you had with Dennis Rainey and Bob Lepine. Your wife Nan also joined you; so let\u2019s start our time off that way.<\/p>\n<p>[Previous <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>Broadcast]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> I can\u2019t say enough about how people came alongside us. We haven\u2019t mentioned my sister, who, the first year after Connor died, flew halfway across the country\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> \u2014every month!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> \u2014and spent time in our home. When Aunt Cherilyn would show up, our other two boys would say, \u201cOh! We get to eat!\u201d [Laughter] I mean, we forgot to feed our kids, guys. We were in <em>such<\/em> grief and just paralyzed. We didn\u2019t <em>function<\/em> for two years, as parents.<\/p>\n<p>I mean, if there\u2019s a call I have on my heart to the church\/to people listening right now, it\u2019s like, you know somebody who\u2019s gone through a <em>significant<\/em> loss in their life. Please bring it up! Please ask how they\u2019re doing. Please say the name of the person you know they\u2019ve lost.<\/p>\n<p>This is a marathon, not a sprint; and they need you at mile five, and at mile ten, and at mile twenty; not just at mile one. You <em>have to<\/em> walk alongside people. And the church, honestly, has to find ways of coming alongside people, so that we don\u2019t just throw platitudes and a good funeral, and feed them for six weeks, and then abandon them to figure it out.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nan:<\/strong> I have sat with so many grieving parents, and it\u2019s the same story, either in their community or their faith community. They\u2019ve just been lost or left. I know it\u2019s a hard loss to face. I know that it\u2019s difficult when it is a child, but it is a common tale for all of us, and it\u2019s isolating. I think the church, and the Christian community, and the Western world could do a better job with grief.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis:<\/strong> There\u2019s something you said earlier: \u201cLeave a legacy that matches the depths of your pain.\u201d I think that is a <em>great<\/em> challenge! To that person who\u2019s lost a loved one, take a step back and go, \u201cWhat\u2019s the level of my pain?\u201d And then begin to ask God, \u201cWould You show me how I can honor the life that I experienced with this person by matching that depth with a glorious declaration of God\u2019s grace? Of doing something positive for other people, and not to take your eyes off yourself so that you stop grieving\u2014keep doing that\u2014but get your eyes focused on the horizon to think, \u2018Who can we help?\u2019\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I <em>love<\/em> it that you\u2019re helping kids in Africa.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> Dennis, I have a video on my phone of my wife picking up a ten-year-old child, carrying him out of a village in West Africa, across a lake on a boat to safety, where that child is now growing up today cared for, getting educated, and learning about the Lord. [Emotion in voice] Every time I think about how Connor was taken, I think about her taking back that child.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> It reminds me that, even though we sometimes feel alone in our grief, like, \u201cGod, where are You?\u201d I want people to remember that God is <em>always<\/em> working behind the scenes. He is <em>always<\/em> orchestrating on our behalf, and He is weeping with us over the things that we weep about\u2014that <em>should not be<\/em>! He didn\u2019t create death; He didn\u2019t create things like this to happen. It just does. He\u2019s sad with us, and He has <em>not<\/em> forgotten us.<\/p>\n<p>[Previous Interview]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Michelle:<\/strong> That\u2019s Ron and Nan Deal sharing about the loss of their son, Connor. Ron, thank you to you and Nan for being so vulnerable in sharing with us, because I think that that helps us who have lost, but also helps us who haven\u2019t lost, to understand how we can come alongside.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Michelle:<\/strong> There was a part in there, where Dennis was talking about how you got your eyes off yourself and you were able to get them on the horizon.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Michelle:<\/strong> How hard was that to do?\u2014to get your eyes on the horizon? Because your other two sons didn\u2019t eat for a while! [Laughter] I mean, you admitted that!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes, we weren\u2019t functioning, in many ways.<\/p>\n<p>You know, it\u2019s interesting, Michelle. For us in our journey, it didn\u2019t turn out to be too difficult to do that. It\u2019s not to our credit, but it\u2019s to the credit of some people who came alongside us. About a year in, we had some people come alongside us that had also lost a child and had found their way through their pain by doing for others.<\/p>\n<p>We didn\u2019t realize they were mentoring us into this, but they were. It was a byproduct. They basically were just loving on us\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> \u2014as fellow parents who have lost a child, and introduced us into a community of parents who do that. We got into serving trafficked kids in Ghana, West Africa, because of how others showed us this road. That\u2019s one reason we\u2019re so passionate about talking about it, because we know what it\u2019s done for us. We\u2019ve seen what it\u2019s done for others. I just think it is one of the pieces to help us grieve.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Yes. How is this\u2014I guess, legacy that Connor left\u2014how is this living out now?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> Well, it continues. Nan and I go to Ghana every year; physically, we go. Sometimes we take a team of people, who are pouring into the children for a short period of time. We have an ongoing therapeutic arts center there that we support. We provide, kind of, management from the United States point of view in funding and just helping to give guidance to the work that\u2019s happening there on an ongoing basis.<\/p>\n<p>By the way, our arts center has now been the inspiration for three more. What we did for Connor and those children, we didn\u2019t know would expand. [Emotion in voice] Connor really loved little kids. He never went to Ghana. He never went to Cambodia or Thailand, but I know he loves this!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> So the definition of grace is giving you what you don\u2019t deserve, and giving you more than that\u2014things you couldn\u2019t even imagine. [Emotion in voice] I never wanted this road, but if I\u2019ve got to walk it, I\u2019m going to do something with it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> And what God has done is <em>far more<\/em> than I ever dreamed.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Michelle:<\/strong> What do you remember most about Connor?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> Where do I start?! He was our creative kid. He thought in colors and design, and building and constructing, and narrating and writing stories, creating movies; you know? We used to see him jumping around on the trampoline in the backyard. We\u2019d be like, \u201cConnor, what are you doing?\u201d He goes, \u201cWait! Just wait, Dad. Let me finish!\u201d [Laughter] I would wait there, and he would come around, and he goes, \u201cI was orchestrating a fight scene for my movie that I\u2019m going to create one day.\u201d [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>You know, he was always creating stuff and imagining. He saw things in people. He was insightful, intuitive. Hated vegetables\u2014[Laughter]\u2014we used to have those battles all the time: \u201cYou\u2019re not leaving the table until you finish some green beans.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Michelle:<\/strong> \u201cNo, no, no!\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> He was, at times, very selfish. He recognized that, and he started working on that\/praying about that. And he could sing; he could sing!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Ron, thank you for your transparency. Thank you for helping us, today, understand pain and loss, and helping us learn how to rest with others.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Michelle:<\/strong> And learn how to listen well, and learn how to process well.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> Well, I appreciate you asking, and let\u2019s just help the listener learn something from what you\u2019ve been doing the last ten minutes.<\/p>\n<p>(A), you asked me, \u201cIs it okay to talk about Connor?\u201d You gave me that power, and I said, \u201cYes.\u201d And then, as we started talking, and I started crying, and I needed time to get through a sentence or two, you gave me space, and you gave me an opportunity. You slowed down; you were patient. You didn\u2019t rush me. You didn\u2019t change the subject to relieve my tears, as if that would be helpful.<\/p>\n<p>You just sat in the space, and you let me cry. You cried a little along with me, and that is how grief gets processed: in community with others, putting words on it; and sometimes the words are crazy and irrational.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> And yet, I shared that with you and with the listeners, and that somehow helps. I don\u2019t even know that I can explain how that helps, but I believe it has something to do with how God has created us to live life and exist in community. As made in His image\u2014He is a communal being, the trinity of God Himself. We, too, are made in that. It\u2019s only in the expression of hard things, in the midst of community, that we can find any sort of sense of resolution about it\/perspective about it, and somehow, it is lessened. You just took a little of my pain and carried it with me.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ron:<\/strong> Thank you.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Michelle:<\/strong> You\u2019re welcome.<\/p>\n<p>[Studio]<\/p>\n<p>Wow; that was a difficult conversation, but I really enjoyed hearing Ron\u2019s perspective on grief and loss. If you would like to hear the full interview of Ron and Nan Deal with Dennis Rainey and Bob Lepine, go to our website. We\u2019ll have a link there: FamilyLifeThisWeek.com; that\u2019s FamilyLifeThisWeek.com.<\/p>\n<p>You know, grief and loss are very difficult things. They\u2019re hard to walk through and, really, we\u2019re not made to walk through these things alone. We need community. We need others who will uphold us, who will encourage us in our faith, and who will keep reminding us of the hope that we have in Christ.<\/p>\n<p>Once again, I just want to remind you that at our website\u2014FamilyLifeThisWeek.com\u2014we have other helpful resources for grief. We have the three-day series that Ron and I did on grief\u2014on elusive grief and on other griefs\u2014so go to our website, FamilyLifeThisWeek.com.<\/p>\n<p>Hey, thanks for listening! I want to thank the president of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, David Robbins, along with our station partners around the country. A big \u201cThank you!\u201d to our engineer today, Keith Lynch. Thanks to our producer, Marques Holt. Justin Adams is our mastering engineer, and Megan Martin is our faithful production coordinator.<\/p>\n<p>Our program is a production of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, and our mission is to effectively develop godly families who change the world one home at a time.<\/p>\n<p>I'm Michelle Hill, inviting you to join us again next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife This Week.<\/em><\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>We are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"blank\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?<\/p>\n<p>Copyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2020 FamilyLife. 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