{"id":306245,"date":"2020-07-10T07:00:05","date_gmt":"2020-07-10T11:00:05","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/hope-when-evil-is-under-your-own-roof\/"},"modified":"2020-07-10T07:00:05","modified_gmt":"2020-07-10T11:00:05","slug":"hope-when-evil-is-under-your-own-roof","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/hope-when-evil-is-under-your-own-roof\/","title":{"rendered":"Hope When Evil Is Under Your Own Roof"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>How can Jennifer Greenberg, a trained opera singer, still sing and find joy despite growing up with a father who was abusive? Hear the source of Jennifer&#8217;s defiant belief in a God who never leaves nor forsakes you.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2020-07-10.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:29:47","filesize":"27.28M","filesize_raw":"28601154","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2906,2822,2873],"tags":[2949],"podcast_series":[8372],"cwp_profile":[9635],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-306245","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-becoming-a-christian","category-growing-in-your-faith","category-mental-and-emotional-issues","tag-abuse","podcast_series-not-forsaken","cwp_profile-jennifer-michelle-greenberg","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/306245\/hope-when-evil-is-under-your-own-roof","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/306245\/hope-when-evil-is-under-your-own-roof","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"um9ddKUC2n\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/hope-when-evil-is-under-your-own-roof\/\">Hope When Evil Is Under Your Own Roof<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/hope-when-evil-is-under-your-own-roof\/embed\/#?secret=um9ddKUC2n\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Hope When Evil Is Under Your Own Roof&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"um9ddKUC2n\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2020-07-10.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2020-07-10.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> When you grow up experiencing abuse as a child\u2014physical abuse\u2014you\u2019re not aware later, as you get married, of how those memories, those experiences, those traumas come with you into marriage. That was Jennifer Michelle Greenberg\u2019s experience. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> A weird thing happened to me when I got married to Jason; because suddenly, I was living with a godly man and a patient man; he was interested in my hobbies; and he wanted to know how I felt about things; he wanted to know my opinion. So, yes; in our early marriage, I had to really grow through and unravel a lot of these preconceived notions and acclimate to being loved and acclimate to a <em>godly<\/em> relationship.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Friday, July 10<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I\u2019m Bob Lepine. You can find us online at FamilyLifeToday.com. We\u2019re going to hear today about a God who can bring redemption, and healing, and hope out of the tragedy and trauma of childhood abuse. Stay with us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us on the Friday edition. We\u2019re talking about a subject this week that I know is difficult for a lot of listeners as we\u2019re hearing descriptions about child abuse. I just\/I want to warn our listeners about this. If this is hard for you, you may want to not listen today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think, sometimes, we forget the level of evil that exists in our world; because we\u2019re not confronted with it <em>daily<\/em>. We see hints of it; you can turn on the news and see something that is going on and go, \u201cThat\u2019s just wrong,\u201d and \u201cHow could somebody do that?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere is probably more happening behind closed doors in homes than most of us realize; and some of our listeners know, firsthand, about evil that they\u2019ve experienced. That\u2019s the subject we\u2019re visiting this week. It\u2019s a subject that I think we have to acknowledge; because as we\u2019ve said, \u201cWhen you bring evil to light\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cthat\u2019s where it can be redeemed.\u201d One of my favorite verses I keep coming back to\u2014Isaiah 61\u2014where God says, \u201cI bring beauty from ashes.\u201d We\u2019re going to go near some ashes today and find the beauty that is there. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; and when evil is out in the world or out in the city, and it\u2019s not in your home, it\u2019s one thing\u2014you can start to separate, or detach, or sort of standoff\u2014but when it\u2019s under your roof, and you have to look at it every day and be a victim of it, it\u2019s another deal. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Jennifer Michelle Greenberg is joining us this week on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Jennifer, welcome. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Thank you so much. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Jennifer is a wife and a mom; lives in Houston, Texas. She is an opera singer, and you\u2019ve got a CD that is coming out; right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> I do; yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Is it opera, or is it pop songs or what? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Well, I\u2019m opera trained. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Yes; so there is a difference. It\u2019s more along the lines\u2014I mean, it\u2019s\u2014obviously, I\u2019m a Christian. It\u2019s more along the lines of, maybe, like Tori Amos or Sarah McLachlan.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Okay. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> But it\u2019s kind of vintage, too; I play the piano and write my own songs. There is kind\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> So you\u2019ve written all of them? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> The fact that you can still sing and find joy\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014is pretty remarkable; because as you\u2019ve shared with us already this week, you grew up in a home, where there was physical violence and abuse\/where your dad was mean and violent; your mom was somewhat complicit in this in that she was an enabler of your dad and said: \u201cWe\u2019re not going to tell people about this,\u201d and \u201cWe\u2019re going to keep up appearances.\u201d You had younger sisters who, undoubtedly, experienced some of the same things you experienced. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Yes; even just\u2014I mean, having a child witness\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> \u2014something that traumatic is child abuse. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Can you isolate what you think was the worst beating\/the worst abuse you ever experienced, growing up? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Oh goodness! The incident that I shared previously\u2014when my dad beat me in the living room and left hand-shaped bruises all over me\u2014that was, I think, the most violent and one of the most traumatic moments of my childhood. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> The story that struck me, too, was about your neighbor\u2019s dog\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014coming into your yard. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Well, we lived out in the country in Austin. There were no fences, and people generally kept their dog on a rope. Our neighbor boy had this dog that was just really prolific at escaping. This dog would wander into our yard and eat our dog\u2019s dog food. I remember, one time, my dad came home from work; and he said, \u201cOh, that bleep neighbor\u2019s dog is in our backyard again.\u201d He said, \u201cShould I shoot it?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI was [thinking] like, \u201cYou\u2019ve got to be kidding\u201d; right? I said [speaking sarcastically], \u201cSure, Dad; go ahead. Shoot the neighbor\u2019s dog; that\u2019s a <em>fabulous<\/em> idea.\u201d He got this weird look on his face, and he went over into his bedroom. I knew that something was wrong, so I followed him in there. By the time I got in there, he had already gotten out his .357 magnum. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Wow! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> He opened the sliding glass door in their bedroom; he aimed, and he shot the neighbor\u2019s dog. The bullet hit the dog\u2019s side and just blew its legs out from underneath it. This dog just twisted in the air, slammed against the ground, and screamed like nothing I\u2019ve ever heard, and ran on three legs back to his home. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI remember my mom running into the room and saying, \u201cDid you just shoot the neighbor\u2019s dog?\u201d and just screaming; and my little sisters were crying. Then 10\/15 minutes later, the neighbor comes pounding on our door and just attacked my dad. They had this fist fight in our living room. I said, \u201cI\u2019m going to call the police\u201d; they broke it up. I think, later, my parents agreed to pay for the vet bills; and we brought them a casserole for dinner. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Wow! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> But it never got reported. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Even in the book, you said, when you asked your dad why he had done that,\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Oh, yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014he said, \u201cYou told me to.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Yes; he blamed <em>me<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> The intimidating impact of that\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Oh, it was terrifying. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014as a child, you watch your dad shoot a dog; and you wonder\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> You <em>know<\/em> what that gun does\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> \u2014and my dad would threaten to shoot me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis is the other thing you have to understand; I mean, this was a <em>demonstration<\/em>. My dad would tell me stories like\u2014for example, he would say\u2014I remember another time he came home from work. We were getting ready to have dinner; and he said, \u201cHey, did you hear that story on the news today?\u201d I was like, \u201cNo; Dad, what are you talking about?\u201d He goes, \u201cWell, this guy came home from work; and he caught his wife and his children packing to leave, so he shot them all dead. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> \u201cAnd then he killed himself.\u201d Then he looked me straight in the eye; and he just said, \u201cYou better never try to leave me.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen I was about 21, he told me that same story again. Jason and I were engaged; and he didn\u2019t want me to get married, so he told me that story. He rehashed that stupid story again. I was just done; so the next day, while he was at work, I snuck into his bedroom. I took his gun out of the gun case, and I wrapped it in a towel. I snuck it downstairs, past my mom; and I hid it in a box of craft supplies in my bedroom. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI remember he came home that night, and everything was normal. Then he went into his bedroom, and he came back out, and he just <em>glared<\/em> at me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Like he knew? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> He <em>knew<\/em>; he absolutely <em>knew<\/em>. Talk about walking on egg shells; it was like that for my entire life. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tActually, when I ended up getting married to Jason\u2014you know, he\u2019s this quiet, calm, sweet guy, who likes to help out with chores and play guitar\u2014he\u2019s a cat person. I mean, he\u2019s just like\u2014he is the exact <em>opposite<\/em> of my dad. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Well, take us back. Did you ever report your dad? Did you ever say anything to anyone at church, or was that too scary? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> No, I did; I tried to talk to my pastor. I made some excuse that I was interested in dating boys, and I wanted to meet him for lunch. This was kind of an excuse I told my parents to kind of get around their little paranoia of me reporting. We met up for lunch, and I told him my dad threw an iron at my head the other day. I had just finished ironing his shirts, and he was mad that I left the ironing board out. He just threw the iron at my head. I ducked just in time, and it hit the wall behind me, and it dented the wall. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe got really quiet; and he said, \u201cWell, we should really pray for your dad\u2019s anger issues.\u201d I remember just, in my head, thinking: \u201cWhoa! That wasn\u2019t the reaction I was expecting.\u201d I mean, I was expecting him to not take me back home\/to call the police. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; \u201cTell me more.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Yes; \u201cTell me more. Let\u2019s go; why don\u2019t we set you up\u201d\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014to rescue you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Right! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> \u2014set me up so I can stay at an elder\u2019s house. I\u2019d even like\u2014I already picked out, in my head, which elder I wanted to stay at\/stay with when he took me away from my home. Instead, he dropped me back off at my house. It was unbelievable. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> What did that say to you, as that young teenager? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> That what I had experienced was normal and that <em>no one<\/em> would believe me. That just\u2014it reaffirmed every worst fear that I had. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> It was in your college years that you decided: \u201cI\u2019m not going to live in fear anymore. I\u2019m going to confront my parents.\u201d That\u2019s a bold, courageous choice to make. There had to be some trepidation in even making that choice. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> There was a lot. I <em>knew<\/em> that it would probably be what tore apart their marriage. I knew that it was going to be really difficult for my younger siblings. I realized that after I left\/after I got married and moved out, he was going to pick a new victim. I wasn\u2019t going to be the main victim anymore, and I decided I wasn\u2019t going to let that happen. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI wrote him a letter, and I told him: \u201cI\u2019m giving you a week. If you don\u2019t talk to a pastor, get counseling, go to therapy, tell Mom the truth\u2014if you don\u2019t face up to what you\u2019ve done, I am going to tell.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You were\u2014how old? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Twenty\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Twenty years old. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> \u2014twenty-one, yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So how did he respond? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Completely ignored it. He never did anything. He pretended that he had never seen it. I told my mom; everything began to implode. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Did she not know? Was she not aware of a lot of it? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> I think she was in a lot of heavy denial. She was a victim as well. It\u2019s very hard for me to reconcile in my head what all was going on in <em>her<\/em> head. That\u2019s been a really hard thing for me to deal with. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You decided, not only to bring this to light with your mom and in your family, but at some point, you made the decision to tell this story publicly. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Oh, yes; I told our pastor. I started speaking to various women\u2019s shelters. I got involved with RAINN, which is the Rape and Incest National Network. You know, I started talking to them and telling my story. I put on a few fundraisers and little fundraisers for local women\u2019s shelters, and I\u2019d share my story. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> How did you get so strong? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> I don\u2019t know! You know, it\u2019s really God; it really is. I also\/because I grew up in that environment, I don\u2019t think I realized how strong I was being. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, I was recently talking to a group of pastors at a church conference in Oklahoma. I made the example of: \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s like when you\u2019re in a hot tub. You kind of get used to how hot the water is, and it doesn\u2019t feel that hot to you; but then you go jump in a swimming pool, and it feels like it\u2019s <em>freezing<\/em>; because you\u2019re not acclimated to it yet. Then if you go and acclimate to that pool, if you get out of that cold pool and try to go back into the hot tub, it\u2019s going to feel really hot again. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAbuse is kind of the same way. You get acclimated to abuse; it feels normal to <em>you<\/em>. Not much surprises you when you\u2019re acclimated to violence and perversion, and you really think this is normal. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tA weird thing happened to me when I got married to Jason; because suddenly, I was living with a godly man and a patient man; he was interested in my hobbies; and he wanted to know how I felt about things; he wanted to know my opinion. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI remember there was this one time when he was doing the dishes. The only time I had ever seen my dad do the dishes was when he was furious at my mom. He was telling her what an awful wife she was and how useless she was. He was actually washing the dishes, but he was also breaking a lot of them and throwing things. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI saw Jason washing the dishes and I was like, \u201cI have <em>failed<\/em> as a wife!\u201d; and I remember just grabbing him by the arm, and crying, and saying: \u201cNo; no; I can do this. It\u2019s going to be okay.\u201d Him just looking at me like\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u201cWhat\u2019s wrong?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> \u201cWhat\u2019s happening?! [Laughter] \u201d So yes; in our early marriage, you know, I had to really grow through and unravel a lot of these preconceived notions\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014and learn to be loved. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> \u2014learn to be loved, and acclimate to being loved, and acclimate to a <em>godly<\/em> relationship.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And today, you are not in communication with your mom or your dad\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> No. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014or your siblings. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Most of them, no. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Is that <em>because<\/em> you told the story? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Oh, there is kind of a different story with each person. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Okay. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> I mean, it happened over the course of many years. Obviously, my dad\u2014I cut him off 12 years ago. But you know, there is still\u2014some of them still have limited contact with my dad and relationships with him and with my mom. It is very painful for a lot of my siblings; I mean, they still love my parents\u2014you know?\u2014some of them. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tTelling the truth about abuse\u2014it\u2019s like pulling a thread in a cloth; everything comes unraveled. You\u2019ve got to kind of reinvent who you are, and you\u2019ve got to rebuild your relationships. A lot of those relationships\u2014they used to be structured\u2014they were built in an abusive environment and around abusive behavior. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOnce you take out that abuse\/once you pull the rug out from under that relationship, it\u2019s like, \u201cWell, who are we?\u201d We used to\u2014like I remember me and one of my sisters\u2014we used to be thick as thieves. We would stand up for each other, and we would defend each other. That was the basis of our relationship\u2014we were constantly protecting each other\u2014so now, that we don\u2019t have to protect each other, and we\u2019re actually bumping heads about how to deal with our trauma, it\u2019s like, \u201cHow do we do this?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u201cHow did you forgive?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> That also I really chalk up to God. One of the things that I\u2019ve learned, both through Scripture and also just through experience, is there is really two different varieties of forgiveness. There is boundary forgiveness, where we let go of our anger; but we still hold that person accountable\u2014we\u2019re not going to let them babysit our kids; maybe, we may still file that police report\u2014we\u2019re going to protect ourselves from that person. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dave:<\/strong> We have boundaries. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> We have boundaries, but we\u2019re not living in that state of constant pain; you know? We\u2019ve grown through\/we\u2019ve processed our anger. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen there is also reconciliatory forgiveness; and that\u2019s where, by God\u2019s grace, He has worked in that person\u2019s heart; they\u2019ve shown the fruits for repentance. I\u2019m not just talking about they\u2019ve said they are sorry; because a lot of abusers will say that they are sorry, and then go right back to what they\u2019ve been doing. We need to see the fruits of the Spirit in that person\u2019s life; we need to see them want to make amends. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, a truly repentant person\/a truly repentant abuser will say: \u201cYou know what? I was so evil to you. I totally understand why you don\u2019t want to see me anymore. I totally understand why seeing me again would cause you to have flashbacks or would make you stressed; and I don\u2019t want to make you stressed. I want you to grow in grace; I want you to heal, so I\u2019m going to step out of your life.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tA truly repentant abuser will be willing to sacrifice their \u201creputation.\u201d They\u2019ll be willing to acknowledge\/say: \u201cYou know what? Yes, I\u2019m untrustworthy; I\u2019ve been untrustworthy, and I don\u2019t deserve these people\u2019s trust.\u201d Until you see that fruit of repentance, you know, you\u2019ve just got to be very wary. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You\u2019re talking about the difference between forgiveness and trust. There is a separation between those two. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Oh, absolutely. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We can decide not to punish someone for how they have wounded us. We talk about burying the hatchet; and we go, \u201cWell, why was there a hatchet in your hand in the first place?\u201d\u2014right? Bury the hatchet means \u201cI\u2019m going to give up the right to punish you for what you\u2019ve done to me,\u201d\u2014that\u2019s one level. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, rebuilding trust and saying, \u201cWe can have a relationship\u201d\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> \u2014totally different. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014it is a totally different thing. That can happen over time, if there is repentance and the fruit of repentance, and you see that. But you can still forgive someone and pray for reconciliation but need to see some things happen before reconciliation takes place. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Absolutely. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So, now, you are setting a new legacy. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Yes! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You\u2019re a mom; Jason\u2019s a dad. You\u2019ve got three daughters. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> When you look at them, thinking back to when you were that little girl, what do you see? What do you think? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> My real Father is God. That biological guy\u2014he was a stranger\u2014you know? It\u2019s like the words of Jesus when Mary and His brothers came to try to dissuade Him from preaching and dissuade Him from sharing the truth\/the gospel. He said, \u201cWho is My mother, and who are My brothers?\u201d\u2014then pointing to those around them\u2014\u201cThese people; these people, who love my Father in heaven, are My mother and My brothers and My sisters.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s really true for me, too; you know? The people who love God\u2014the people who repent of their sins, who grow in grace, who love our Father in heaven\u2014this is my family. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Jennifer, would you mind praying for listeners that might be struggling in a situation where, maybe, they can\u2019t forgive; or they\u2019re in a situation where they are stuck, and they don\u2019t know what to do? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Absolutely. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLord, You are our Mighty Counselor. You are our Savior and our Redeemer. Lord, You are recovery. And You know what? Jesus Christ, You are the ultimate survivor. You suffered betrayal; You suffered false accusations, beatings; You were nailed to a cross. You know what it\u2019s like to be hated, to be abused, to be\u00a0 abandoned and betrayed. Lord, You know every person who is listening right now. You know everything that\u2019s ever happened to them. You know every tear they\u2019ve ever cried. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd Lord, we don\u2019t just have a God who died for our sins and rose from the dead. We have a God who can relate with us on a personal level\u2014who can look into our situation, our suffering, our pain\u2014and when we say, \u201cMy God, my God, why have You forsaken me?\u201d\u2014Lord, You know what that\u2019s like. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, Lord, I would just ask that You bless everyone, who is listening, with the comfort of knowing that You understand\/that You know our deepest fears, our darkest experiences, our most fierce anger and pain. Lord, because You have felt these things too, and You know everything, and You are sovereign, and You are just and good.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI would just ask that you would bless everyone with peace, that You bless me with peace; and that, Lord, as Joseph said in \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGenesis 50:20: \u201cThese abusers\u2014they intended to harm [me]\u2014but You can and You will use all things together for good for Your glory and for the saving of many lives.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLord, I would ask that You knit us together. Lord, You knit us together in our mother\u2019s womb; You can knit together our broken hearts. I would ask that You heal us\/that You would enable us to use our stories to glorify You, to help others, to be the wonderful parents, friends, and children of God that You designed us to be. Lord, I thank You for Your faithfulness and Your justice. Amen. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Amen. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Amen. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Jennifer, we thank you\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014for your story and for your willingness to tell it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLike you, we pray that God will use the exposure of this to bring hope and healing to those who have experienced this in their past or those who are still wrestling with this. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Thank you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014and that they\u2019ll be brave enough to go get help\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Absolutely. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014and to <em>expose<\/em> what needs to be exposed. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Bring that light into darkness, yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Jennifer\u2019s book is called <em>Not Forsaken: A Story of Life After Abuse: How Faith Brought One Woman from Victim to Survivor<\/em>. You can order the book from us, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to get a copy. Again, our website is FamilyLifeToday.com. You can order Jennifer\u2019s book online; or you can call us to get a copy of the book, <em>Not Forsaken<\/em>; our number is 1-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tListening to Jennifer\u2019s story this week, it\u2019s been hard to hear. David Robbins, the president of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, is here with us. I think, maybe, things like this are more common than we realize. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> Yes; situations like this can be more common. It\u2019s also a message of hope for every one of us, no matter the situations that we are walking through. If God met Jennifer in such evil\/in such darkness\u2014and if He has helped her experience, so intimately, that He is always with her and will never forsake her\/that He is her Father\u2014if that is true in the most difficult circumstances we could <em>imagine<\/em>, what about you in your circumstances? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYour situation may not be as shocking, but it doesn\u2019t diminish that you are experiencing it and feeling it deeply. Perhaps, you feel isolated and alone, and like no one can really understand. God\u2019s commitment to you is exactly the same; He is always with you. He never will forsake you. He weeps with you\u2014has a righteous anger of the unrighteousness you\u2019ve experienced\u2014and He <em>loves<\/em> you deeply. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That is so important. That\u2019s a great reminder, David; thank you for that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd with that, we\u2019ve got to wrap things up for this week. Thanks for joining us. I hope you have a <em>great<\/em> weekend. I hope you and your family are able to be together with your local church this weekend for worship. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd I hope you can join us back on Monday, especially if you are in the dating years\u2014or if you know somebody who is, have them tune in\u2014Shelby Abbott joins us to talk about how to navigate those years effectively\/successfully. I hope you can be here for that conversation. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2020 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:29:47"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["27.28M"],"filesize_raw":["28601154"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-306245.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-306245.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom 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can Jennifer Greenberg, a trained opera singer, still sing and find joy despite growing up with a father who was abusive? Hear the source of Jennifer's defiant belief in a God who never leaves nor forsakes you.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2020-07-10.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> When you grow up experiencing abuse as a child\u2014physical abuse\u2014you\u2019re not aware later, as you get married, of how those memories, those experiences, those traumas come with you into marriage. That was Jennifer Michelle Greenberg\u2019s experience. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> A weird thing happened to me when I got married to Jason; because suddenly, I was living with a godly man and a patient man; he was interested in my hobbies; and he wanted to know how I felt about things; he wanted to know my opinion. So, yes; in our early marriage, I had to really grow through and unravel a lot of these preconceived notions and acclimate to being loved and acclimate to a <em>godly<\/em> relationship.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Friday, July 10<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I\u2019m Bob Lepine. You can find us online at FamilyLifeToday.com. We\u2019re going to hear today about a God who can bring redemption, and healing, and hope out of the tragedy and trauma of childhood abuse. Stay with us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us on the Friday edition. We\u2019re talking about a subject this week that I know is difficult for a lot of listeners as we\u2019re hearing descriptions about child abuse. I just\/I want to warn our listeners about this. If this is hard for you, you may want to not listen today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think, sometimes, we forget the level of evil that exists in our world; because we\u2019re not confronted with it <em>daily<\/em>. We see hints of it; you can turn on the news and see something that is going on and go, \u201cThat\u2019s just wrong,\u201d and \u201cHow could somebody do that?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere is probably more happening behind closed doors in homes than most of us realize; and some of our listeners know, firsthand, about evil that they\u2019ve experienced. That\u2019s the subject we\u2019re visiting this week. It\u2019s a subject that I think we have to acknowledge; because as we\u2019ve said, \u201cWhen you bring evil to light\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cthat\u2019s where it can be redeemed.\u201d One of my favorite verses I keep coming back to\u2014Isaiah 61\u2014where God says, \u201cI bring beauty from ashes.\u201d We\u2019re going to go near some ashes today and find the beauty that is there. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; and when evil is out in the world or out in the city, and it\u2019s not in your home, it\u2019s one thing\u2014you can start to separate, or detach, or sort of standoff\u2014but when it\u2019s under your roof, and you have to look at it every day and be a victim of it, it\u2019s another deal. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Jennifer Michelle Greenberg is joining us this week on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Jennifer, welcome. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Thank you so much. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Jennifer is a wife and a mom; lives in Houston, Texas. She is an opera singer, and you\u2019ve got a CD that is coming out; right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> I do; yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Is it opera, or is it pop songs or what? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Well, I\u2019m opera trained. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Yes; so there is a difference. It\u2019s more along the lines\u2014I mean, it\u2019s\u2014obviously, I\u2019m a Christian. It\u2019s more along the lines of, maybe, like Tori Amos or Sarah McLachlan.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Okay. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> But it\u2019s kind of vintage, too; I play the piano and write my own songs. There is kind\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> So you\u2019ve written all of them? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> The fact that you can still sing and find joy\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014is pretty remarkable; because as you\u2019ve shared with us already this week, you grew up in a home, where there was physical violence and abuse\/where your dad was mean and violent; your mom was somewhat complicit in this in that she was an enabler of your dad and said: \u201cWe\u2019re not going to tell people about this,\u201d and \u201cWe\u2019re going to keep up appearances.\u201d You had younger sisters who, undoubtedly, experienced some of the same things you experienced. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Yes; even just\u2014I mean, having a child witness\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> \u2014something that traumatic is child abuse. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Can you isolate what you think was the worst beating\/the worst abuse you ever experienced, growing up? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Oh goodness! The incident that I shared previously\u2014when my dad beat me in the living room and left hand-shaped bruises all over me\u2014that was, I think, the most violent and one of the most traumatic moments of my childhood. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> The story that struck me, too, was about your neighbor\u2019s dog\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014coming into your yard. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Well, we lived out in the country in Austin. There were no fences, and people generally kept their dog on a rope. Our neighbor boy had this dog that was just really prolific at escaping. This dog would wander into our yard and eat our dog\u2019s dog food. I remember, one time, my dad came home from work; and he said, \u201cOh, that bleep neighbor\u2019s dog is in our backyard again.\u201d He said, \u201cShould I shoot it?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI was [thinking] like, \u201cYou\u2019ve got to be kidding\u201d; right? I said [speaking sarcastically], \u201cSure, Dad; go ahead. Shoot the neighbor\u2019s dog; that\u2019s a <em>fabulous<\/em> idea.\u201d He got this weird look on his face, and he went over into his bedroom. I knew that something was wrong, so I followed him in there. By the time I got in there, he had already gotten out his .357 magnum. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Wow! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> He opened the sliding glass door in their bedroom; he aimed, and he shot the neighbor\u2019s dog. The bullet hit the dog\u2019s side and just blew its legs out from underneath it. This dog just twisted in the air, slammed against the ground, and screamed like nothing I\u2019ve ever heard, and ran on three legs back to his home. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI remember my mom running into the room and saying, \u201cDid you just shoot the neighbor\u2019s dog?\u201d and just screaming; and my little sisters were crying. Then 10\/15 minutes later, the neighbor comes pounding on our door and just attacked my dad. They had this fist fight in our living room. I said, \u201cI\u2019m going to call the police\u201d; they broke it up. I think, later, my parents agreed to pay for the vet bills; and we brought them a casserole for dinner. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Wow! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> But it never got reported. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Even in the book, you said, when you asked your dad why he had done that,\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Oh, yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014he said, \u201cYou told me to.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Yes; he blamed <em>me<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> The intimidating impact of that\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Oh, it was terrifying. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014as a child, you watch your dad shoot a dog; and you wonder\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> You <em>know<\/em> what that gun does\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> \u2014and my dad would threaten to shoot me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis is the other thing you have to understand; I mean, this was a <em>demonstration<\/em>. My dad would tell me stories like\u2014for example, he would say\u2014I remember another time he came home from work. We were getting ready to have dinner; and he said, \u201cHey, did you hear that story on the news today?\u201d I was like, \u201cNo; Dad, what are you talking about?\u201d He goes, \u201cWell, this guy came home from work; and he caught his wife and his children packing to leave, so he shot them all dead. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> \u201cAnd then he killed himself.\u201d Then he looked me straight in the eye; and he just said, \u201cYou better never try to leave me.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen I was about 21, he told me that same story again. Jason and I were engaged; and he didn\u2019t want me to get married, so he told me that story. He rehashed that stupid story again. I was just done; so the next day, while he was at work, I snuck into his bedroom. I took his gun out of the gun case, and I wrapped it in a towel. I snuck it downstairs, past my mom; and I hid it in a box of craft supplies in my bedroom. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI remember he came home that night, and everything was normal. Then he went into his bedroom, and he came back out, and he just <em>glared<\/em> at me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Like he knew? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> He <em>knew<\/em>; he absolutely <em>knew<\/em>. Talk about walking on egg shells; it was like that for my entire life. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tActually, when I ended up getting married to Jason\u2014you know, he\u2019s this quiet, calm, sweet guy, who likes to help out with chores and play guitar\u2014he\u2019s a cat person. I mean, he\u2019s just like\u2014he is the exact <em>opposite<\/em> of my dad. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Well, take us back. Did you ever report your dad? Did you ever say anything to anyone at church, or was that too scary? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> No, I did; I tried to talk to my pastor. I made some excuse that I was interested in dating boys, and I wanted to meet him for lunch. This was kind of an excuse I told my parents to kind of get around their little paranoia of me reporting. We met up for lunch, and I told him my dad threw an iron at my head the other day. I had just finished ironing his shirts, and he was mad that I left the ironing board out. He just threw the iron at my head. I ducked just in time, and it hit the wall behind me, and it dented the wall. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe got really quiet; and he said, \u201cWell, we should really pray for your dad\u2019s anger issues.\u201d I remember just, in my head, thinking: \u201cWhoa! That wasn\u2019t the reaction I was expecting.\u201d I mean, I was expecting him to not take me back home\/to call the police. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; \u201cTell me more.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Yes; \u201cTell me more. Let\u2019s go; why don\u2019t we set you up\u201d\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014to rescue you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Right! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> \u2014set me up so I can stay at an elder\u2019s house. I\u2019d even like\u2014I already picked out, in my head, which elder I wanted to stay at\/stay with when he took me away from my home. Instead, he dropped me back off at my house. It was unbelievable. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> What did that say to you, as that young teenager? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> That what I had experienced was normal and that <em>no one<\/em> would believe me. That just\u2014it reaffirmed every worst fear that I had. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> It was in your college years that you decided: \u201cI\u2019m not going to live in fear anymore. I\u2019m going to confront my parents.\u201d That\u2019s a bold, courageous choice to make. There had to be some trepidation in even making that choice. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> There was a lot. I <em>knew<\/em> that it would probably be what tore apart their marriage. I knew that it was going to be really difficult for my younger siblings. I realized that after I left\/after I got married and moved out, he was going to pick a new victim. I wasn\u2019t going to be the main victim anymore, and I decided I wasn\u2019t going to let that happen. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI wrote him a letter, and I told him: \u201cI\u2019m giving you a week. If you don\u2019t talk to a pastor, get counseling, go to therapy, tell Mom the truth\u2014if you don\u2019t face up to what you\u2019ve done, I am going to tell.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You were\u2014how old? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Twenty\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Twenty years old. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> \u2014twenty-one, yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So how did he respond? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Completely ignored it. He never did anything. He pretended that he had never seen it. I told my mom; everything began to implode. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Did she not know? Was she not aware of a lot of it? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> I think she was in a lot of heavy denial. She was a victim as well. It\u2019s very hard for me to reconcile in my head what all was going on in <em>her<\/em> head. That\u2019s been a really hard thing for me to deal with. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You decided, not only to bring this to light with your mom and in your family, but at some point, you made the decision to tell this story publicly. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Oh, yes; I told our pastor. I started speaking to various women\u2019s shelters. I got involved with RAINN, which is the Rape and Incest National Network. You know, I started talking to them and telling my story. I put on a few fundraisers and little fundraisers for local women\u2019s shelters, and I\u2019d share my story. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> How did you get so strong? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> I don\u2019t know! You know, it\u2019s really God; it really is. I also\/because I grew up in that environment, I don\u2019t think I realized how strong I was being. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, I was recently talking to a group of pastors at a church conference in Oklahoma. I made the example of: \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s like when you\u2019re in a hot tub. You kind of get used to how hot the water is, and it doesn\u2019t feel that hot to you; but then you go jump in a swimming pool, and it feels like it\u2019s <em>freezing<\/em>; because you\u2019re not acclimated to it yet. Then if you go and acclimate to that pool, if you get out of that cold pool and try to go back into the hot tub, it\u2019s going to feel really hot again. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAbuse is kind of the same way. You get acclimated to abuse; it feels normal to <em>you<\/em>. Not much surprises you when you\u2019re acclimated to violence and perversion, and you really think this is normal. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tA weird thing happened to me when I got married to Jason; because suddenly, I was living with a godly man and a patient man; he was interested in my hobbies; and he wanted to know how I felt about things; he wanted to know my opinion. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI remember there was this one time when he was doing the dishes. The only time I had ever seen my dad do the dishes was when he was furious at my mom. He was telling her what an awful wife she was and how useless she was. He was actually washing the dishes, but he was also breaking a lot of them and throwing things. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI saw Jason washing the dishes and I was like, \u201cI have <em>failed<\/em> as a wife!\u201d; and I remember just grabbing him by the arm, and crying, and saying: \u201cNo; no; I can do this. It\u2019s going to be okay.\u201d Him just looking at me like\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u201cWhat\u2019s wrong?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> \u201cWhat\u2019s happening?! [Laughter] \u201d So yes; in our early marriage, you know, I had to really grow through and unravel a lot of these preconceived notions\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014and learn to be loved. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> \u2014learn to be loved, and acclimate to being loved, and acclimate to a <em>godly<\/em> relationship.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And today, you are not in communication with your mom or your dad\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> No. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014or your siblings. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Most of them, no. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Is that <em>because<\/em> you told the story? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Oh, there is kind of a different story with each person. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Okay. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> I mean, it happened over the course of many years. Obviously, my dad\u2014I cut him off 12 years ago. But you know, there is still\u2014some of them still have limited contact with my dad and relationships with him and with my mom. It is very painful for a lot of my siblings; I mean, they still love my parents\u2014you know?\u2014some of them. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tTelling the truth about abuse\u2014it\u2019s like pulling a thread in a cloth; everything comes unraveled. You\u2019ve got to kind of reinvent who you are, and you\u2019ve got to rebuild your relationships. A lot of those relationships\u2014they used to be structured\u2014they were built in an abusive environment and around abusive behavior. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOnce you take out that abuse\/once you pull the rug out from under that relationship, it\u2019s like, \u201cWell, who are we?\u201d We used to\u2014like I remember me and one of my sisters\u2014we used to be thick as thieves. We would stand up for each other, and we would defend each other. That was the basis of our relationship\u2014we were constantly protecting each other\u2014so now, that we don\u2019t have to protect each other, and we\u2019re actually bumping heads about how to deal with our trauma, it\u2019s like, \u201cHow do we do this?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u201cHow did you forgive?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> That also I really chalk up to God. One of the things that I\u2019ve learned, both through Scripture and also just through experience, is there is really two different varieties of forgiveness. There is boundary forgiveness, where we let go of our anger; but we still hold that person accountable\u2014we\u2019re not going to let them babysit our kids; maybe, we may still file that police report\u2014we\u2019re going to protect ourselves from that person. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dave:<\/strong> We have boundaries. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> We have boundaries, but we\u2019re not living in that state of constant pain; you know? We\u2019ve grown through\/we\u2019ve processed our anger. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen there is also reconciliatory forgiveness; and that\u2019s where, by God\u2019s grace, He has worked in that person\u2019s heart; they\u2019ve shown the fruits for repentance. I\u2019m not just talking about they\u2019ve said they are sorry; because a lot of abusers will say that they are sorry, and then go right back to what they\u2019ve been doing. We need to see the fruits of the Spirit in that person\u2019s life; we need to see them want to make amends. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, a truly repentant person\/a truly repentant abuser will say: \u201cYou know what? I was so evil to you. I totally understand why you don\u2019t want to see me anymore. I totally understand why seeing me again would cause you to have flashbacks or would make you stressed; and I don\u2019t want to make you stressed. I want you to grow in grace; I want you to heal, so I\u2019m going to step out of your life.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tA truly repentant abuser will be willing to sacrifice their \u201creputation.\u201d They\u2019ll be willing to acknowledge\/say: \u201cYou know what? Yes, I\u2019m untrustworthy; I\u2019ve been untrustworthy, and I don\u2019t deserve these people\u2019s trust.\u201d Until you see that fruit of repentance, you know, you\u2019ve just got to be very wary. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You\u2019re talking about the difference between forgiveness and trust. There is a separation between those two. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Oh, absolutely. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We can decide not to punish someone for how they have wounded us. We talk about burying the hatchet; and we go, \u201cWell, why was there a hatchet in your hand in the first place?\u201d\u2014right? Bury the hatchet means \u201cI\u2019m going to give up the right to punish you for what you\u2019ve done to me,\u201d\u2014that\u2019s one level. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, rebuilding trust and saying, \u201cWe can have a relationship\u201d\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> \u2014totally different. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014it is a totally different thing. That can happen over time, if there is repentance and the fruit of repentance, and you see that. But you can still forgive someone and pray for reconciliation but need to see some things happen before reconciliation takes place. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Absolutely. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So, now, you are setting a new legacy. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Yes! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You\u2019re a mom; Jason\u2019s a dad. You\u2019ve got three daughters. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> When you look at them, thinking back to when you were that little girl, what do you see? What do you think? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> My real Father is God. That biological guy\u2014he was a stranger\u2014you know? It\u2019s like the words of Jesus when Mary and His brothers came to try to dissuade Him from preaching and dissuade Him from sharing the truth\/the gospel. He said, \u201cWho is My mother, and who are My brothers?\u201d\u2014then pointing to those around them\u2014\u201cThese people; these people, who love my Father in heaven, are My mother and My brothers and My sisters.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s really true for me, too; you know? The people who love God\u2014the people who repent of their sins, who grow in grace, who love our Father in heaven\u2014this is my family. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Jennifer, would you mind praying for listeners that might be struggling in a situation where, maybe, they can\u2019t forgive; or they\u2019re in a situation where they are stuck, and they don\u2019t know what to do? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Absolutely. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLord, You are our Mighty Counselor. You are our Savior and our Redeemer. Lord, You are recovery. And You know what? Jesus Christ, You are the ultimate survivor. You suffered betrayal; You suffered false accusations, beatings; You were nailed to a cross. You know what it\u2019s like to be hated, to be abused, to be\u00a0 abandoned and betrayed. Lord, You know every person who is listening right now. You know everything that\u2019s ever happened to them. You know every tear they\u2019ve ever cried. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd Lord, we don\u2019t just have a God who died for our sins and rose from the dead. We have a God who can relate with us on a personal level\u2014who can look into our situation, our suffering, our pain\u2014and when we say, \u201cMy God, my God, why have You forsaken me?\u201d\u2014Lord, You know what that\u2019s like. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, Lord, I would just ask that You bless everyone, who is listening, with the comfort of knowing that You understand\/that You know our deepest fears, our darkest experiences, our most fierce anger and pain. Lord, because You have felt these things too, and You know everything, and You are sovereign, and You are just and good.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI would just ask that you would bless everyone with peace, that You bless me with peace; and that, Lord, as Joseph said in \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGenesis 50:20: \u201cThese abusers\u2014they intended to harm [me]\u2014but You can and You will use all things together for good for Your glory and for the saving of many lives.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLord, I would ask that You knit us together. Lord, You knit us together in our mother\u2019s womb; You can knit together our broken hearts. I would ask that You heal us\/that You would enable us to use our stories to glorify You, to help others, to be the wonderful parents, friends, and children of God that You designed us to be. Lord, I thank You for Your faithfulness and Your justice. Amen. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Amen. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Amen. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Jennifer, we thank you\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014for your story and for your willingness to tell it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLike you, we pray that God will use the exposure of this to bring hope and healing to those who have experienced this in their past or those who are still wrestling with this. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Thank you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014and that they\u2019ll be brave enough to go get help\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Absolutely. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014and to <em>expose<\/em> what needs to be exposed. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Bring that light into darkness, yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Jennifer\u2019s book is called <em>Not Forsaken: A Story of Life After Abuse: How Faith Brought One Woman from Victim to Survivor<\/em>. You can order the book from us, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to get a copy. Again, our website is FamilyLifeToday.com. You can order Jennifer\u2019s book online; or you can call us to get a copy of the book, <em>Not Forsaken<\/em>; our number is 1-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tListening to Jennifer\u2019s story this week, it\u2019s been hard to hear. David Robbins, the president of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, is here with us. I think, maybe, things like this are more common than we realize. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> Yes; situations like this can be more common. It\u2019s also a message of hope for every one of us, no matter the situations that we are walking through. If God met Jennifer in such evil\/in such darkness\u2014and if He has helped her experience, so intimately, that He is always with her and will never forsake her\/that He is her Father\u2014if that is true in the most difficult circumstances we could <em>imagine<\/em>, what about you in your circumstances? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYour situation may not be as shocking, but it doesn\u2019t diminish that you are experiencing it and feeling it deeply. Perhaps, you feel isolated and alone, and like no one can really understand. God\u2019s commitment to you is exactly the same; He is always with you. He never will forsake you. He weeps with you\u2014has a righteous anger of the unrighteousness you\u2019ve experienced\u2014and He <em>loves<\/em> you deeply. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That is so important. That\u2019s a great reminder, David; thank you for that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd with that, we\u2019ve got to wrap things up for this week. Thanks for joining us. I hope you have a <em>great<\/em> weekend. I hope you and your family are able to be together with your local church this weekend for worship. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd I hope you can join us back on Monday, especially if you are in the dating years\u2014or if you know somebody who is, have them tune in\u2014Shelby Abbott joins us to talk about how to navigate those years effectively\/successfully. I hope you can be here for that conversation. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2020 FamilyLife. 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