{"id":306241,"date":"2020-07-09T07:00:05","date_gmt":"2020-07-09T11:00:05","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/abused-but-not-forsaken\/"},"modified":"2020-07-09T07:00:05","modified_gmt":"2020-07-09T11:00:05","slug":"abused-but-not-forsaken","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/abused-but-not-forsaken\/","title":{"rendered":"Abused but Not Forsaken"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Jennifer Greenberg tells her story of growing up with an abusive father. Hear how Jennifer found hope in Genesis 50:20, &#8220;You meant evil against me, but God meant it for good.&#8221;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2020-07-09.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:27:39","filesize":"25.32M","filesize_raw":"26549810","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2906,2822,2873],"tags":[2949],"podcast_series":[8372],"cwp_profile":[9635],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-306241","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-becoming-a-christian","category-growing-in-your-faith","category-mental-and-emotional-issues","tag-abuse","podcast_series-not-forsaken","cwp_profile-jennifer-michelle-greenberg","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/306241\/abused-but-not-forsaken","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/306241\/abused-but-not-forsaken","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"N6YN7IkdjF\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/abused-but-not-forsaken\/\">Abused but Not Forsaken<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/abused-but-not-forsaken\/embed\/#?secret=N6YN7IkdjF\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Abused but Not Forsaken&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"N6YN7IkdjF\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2020-07-09.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2020-07-09.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> It wasn\u2019t until she was a young adult that Jennifer Michelle Greenberg realized that there was something wrong with her family dynamic. Her dad, who was an elder in his local church, also abused her physically when they were home. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> He would be one person in public\/at church and then a completely different person in private. Growing up, I thought this was normal; and I actually thought that everyone lived like this. They\u2019d be one person at church\u2014you\u2019d put on your Sunday smile\u2014and then you\u2019d go home; and you\u2019d lose your temper; and you\u2019d cuss; and you\u2019d\u2014whatever else people did. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2014part of that was part of the reason I didn\u2019t report for a long time because I did think it was normal. I had no reason to believe that the men at our church weren\u2019t totally different people at home. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Thursday, July 9<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I\u2019m Bob Lepine. You can find us online at FamilyLifeToday.com. Jennifer Michelle Greenberg\u2019s childhood was the kind of childhood we would want no child to have to experience. She shares her story with us today. Stay with us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us on the Thursday edition. There may be some listeners who want to be careful with today\u2019s program, because it contains some descriptions of abuse\/physical violence that may be hard for people to hear. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI was thinking about the verse in Ephesians that says that we are to have nothing to do with the unfruitful works of darkness; but instead, we are to expose them. You think about that, and you ask the question: \u201cSo why are we to expose darkness?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Because why do you want to bring darkness to light? Why reveal the unpleasantness, especially when it\u2019s been <em>horrible<\/em>? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think that Satan does his best work in the darkness and in hiding. When we bring it into the light, then God can expose the darkness and show us truth. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, and I think, as well, we have a clearer understanding of what is light and darkness\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014when we can see darkness brought to light. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Absolutely. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And we\u2019re bringing that up because we\u2019ve got a guest joining us today whose life was full of unfruitful works of darkness. Jennifer Michelle Greenberg joining us on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Welcome. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Thank you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Jennifer is a mom; she\u2019s a wife. She lives in Houston, Texas; mom of three daughters. She and Jason have been married for 13 years. She is also a musician\/a vocalist. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Opera singer. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So, you\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Can we get a little? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> No. [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I wouldn\u2019t do that either. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You want to hear us? We can\u2014[feigns singing]. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> No; they don\u2019t want\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> They want to continually do this. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014nobody wants to hear us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> No; it\u2019s not going to happen. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You have written a book called <em>Not Forsaken<\/em>. That is a memoir, and it\u2019s a memoir about the darkness you grew up in. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I\u2019m sure, as you thought about this book, you thought, \u201cThis will be therapeutic for me to write this down\u201d; but to go public and to tell the world what happened in your home\u2014especially when you\u2019ve got parents, and siblings, and others who were a part of this, who are still living\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014that\u2019s a tough decision to have to wrestle with. Tell us how you wrestled with that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> It was really tough. You know, there are so many parts of the book that were cathartic and therapeutic; but at the same time, they were incredibly <em>painful<\/em> to write. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> You know, I had to go back over old memories that I had already packed away and tucked away in the back of my head, and hadn\u2019t really processed a lot of the grief. A lot of times, I felt like I was kind of on an archaeological dig in my brain\u2014you know?\u2014digging up these old tragedies\/these old crimes, and dusting them off, and identifying them and calling them what they were, and exposing them to the light, as you said. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut you know, one of the Bible stories that I really clung to, as I was writing, was the story of Joseph and how his brothers abused him. He was sold into slavery; he was falsely accused, and falsely imprisoned, and just treated so badly by everyone; but God put him in a position, where he was over many people. He was\/he had the opportunity to help a lot of people, because of the things that he\u2019d been through. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe says in Genesis 50, verse 20: \u201cYou intended to harm me, but God intended it for good to accomplish what is now being done, the saving of many lives.\u201d That has been my hope\u2014that God would use what He brought me through, and what He healed me from, to save many lives. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Your book is called <em>Not Forsaken<\/em>. It\u2019s the story of life after abuse\u2014how faith brought you from being a victim to being a survivor. As our listeners are going to hear, you experienced significant physical abuse at the hands of your father\u2014emotional abuse\/verbal abuse from him\u2014and manipulation and abuse from your mom. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; I don\u2019t think I\u2019ve read a book, where my emotions were <em>so extreme<\/em>\u2014I mean, I felt hopeless; and then, by the end, hopeful. I mean the fact that you\u2019re sitting here right now\u2014it is Joseph\u2019s story; it\u2019s <em>amazing<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI felt <em>extreme<\/em> anger. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Me too. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I wanted to throw the book against the wall at what happened to you; and yet, forgiveness and compassion. It\u2019s going to be a journey today to take our listeners through your life. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Thank you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Are your earliest memories of growing up memories of abuse? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> The majority of them; yes. I think part of that is because traumatic memories stick with us for so long. For example, I think of a story when my dad threw an iron at my head; and those are the kind of details that just get burned into your mind. It\u2019s very hard to reconcile\u2014especially, now that I have kids\u2014I think, you know, as I look at my own children and I\u2014no matter what they ever do, I can\u2019t imagine treating them that way. I can no longer say of my dad, \u201cWell, maybe, he was just having a bad day,\u201d because I know, as a parent, I would <em>never<\/em> do that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Your dad was reading a book on theology\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014and you were making too much noise. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob:<\/strong> What do you remember?\u2014how old were you at this time? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> I had to have been ten or eleven years old, because we had recently moved to our house in Austin. I was playing with my dolls in the living room. It would have been a Saturday or a Sunday, because my dad was home from work. He was sitting on the couch, reading a theology book. I remember him telling me to be quiet, and I don\u2019t know if I was noisy or not; but whatever happened, suddenly, he grabbed me from behind, and he jerked me around, and he just started hitting me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI remember thinking, as a kid: \u201cIt\u2019s going to be okay. This is just a regular spanking. He\u2019ll hit me two or three times; it\u2019ll be over, and I can go back to playing\u201d; but he just kept hitting me, and he wasn\u2019t stopping. I started <em>screaming<\/em>. Finally, my mom ran in; and she said, \u201cWhat are you doing?!\u201d He dropped me, and I didn\u2019t even bother getting my toys or anything. I just <em>ran<\/em> as fast as I could into my bedroom, and I hid. I just kind of huddled by the closet on the floor. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI remember hearing them yelling, and I remember just waiting for someone to come and take care of me. I waited a long time; I just sat there. I remember looking at my arm and seeing bruises already showing up. I remember comparing the size of my hands to those bruise marks and thinking, \u201cThis is how big my dad\u2019s hands are,\u201d and just realizing, in that moment, that I was really in a lot of danger. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think that was the one time that I ever remember my dad apologizing to me. I want to say it was one\/two\/three days later, but he called me on the phone from work. He basically told me, \u201cI\u2019m sorry that that happened\u201d; but I had overheard them yelling and arguing, and I <em>knew<\/em> that my mom had threatened to tell our pastor if he didn\u2019t say, \u201cSorry.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> So you were going to church as a family. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And would your parents say they were believers and Christians? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Yes; absolutely. In fact, my dad\u2014he would teach Sunday school. He\u2019s <em>incredibly<\/em> smart; he has a PhD in biology. He\u2019s just\/he\u2019s a very intellectual, academic guy. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Was that the first time that he had lost his temper with you? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Oh, no; not at\u2014at home, he was a very different person. He would be one person in public\/at church\u2014and I assume at work\u2014and then a completely different person in private. Growing up, I thought this was normal. I actually thought that everyone lived like this. They\u2019d be one person at church\u2014you\u2019d put on your Sunday smile\u2014and then you\u2019d go home; and you\u2019d lose your temper; and you\u2019d cuss; and you\u2019d look at porn or whatever else people did. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tPart of that was part of the reason I didn\u2019t report for a long time, because I did think it was normal. I had no reason to believe that the men at our church weren\u2019t totally different people at home. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> What you just described in terms of physical abuse\u2014you talked about cussing and porn\u2014this was all a part of your dad\u2019s behavior; right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Absolutely; yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Again, you thought, \u201cIt\u2019s normal.\u201d It\u2019s what you had grown up with. Had you ever feared for your safety, or did you just think you were getting bad spankings as a child? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> I constantly feared for my safety. In fact, I would have recurring nightmares about being raped or being murdered; and for a long time, as a child\u2014and I think this is because I thought this was a normal way to live\u2014I didn\u2019t expect to live until I was 21; I expected to die. The reason was because I thought that all men were as violent as my dad. I thought he was normal. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Did you think he was going to kill you? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> I did; I did. I thought if he didn\u2019t kill me, then I would probably get so depressed that I would kill myself; and that if I ever got married, I would marry a man who was violent. I just\u2014again, this was my normal. It was how I thought everyone was. Based on my experiences, I didn\u2019t see how I was going to survive. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; you opened the book with several stories. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> One of them you just told, but the other one with the razor blade\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014talk about that. I mean, that\u2019s just\u2014I\u2019ve never read a book, where it started that way; and then we\u2019re introduced to you. It\u2019s like, \u201cOh my goodness!\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> When I was a teenager\u201415\/16\u2014I overheard my dad talking to my mom. He was telling her what a beautiful figure he thought I was developing. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014and you\u2019re the oldest. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> I\u2019m the oldest; yes. I had been inundated with his perverse comments and his sexual abuse for so long; and I think just as a teenager, I was starting to look at my situation with less of a childish perspective and more of an adult perspective. There was just\u2014there\u2019s a maturity going on; there\u2019s a hormonal development. I was starting to understand more what sexuality was; and suddenly, I realized that my dad was a sexual predator and that I was his prey. I wanted to <em>die<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Emotion in voice] For a long time, I had kind of thought: \u201cWell, I just need to make it until I\u2019m 18. I can leave. I can get out of here. I can go to college. I can start my own life. I\u2019ll get a little apartment by myself\u201d; but at that point in my life, I just didn\u2019t think I could make it another three years. I went and got a razor blade out of my mom\u2019s art supplies, and I took it up to my bedroom. I just sat on my bed, and I prayed. I told God, \u201cI can\u2019t stand this anymore, so I really need a sign from You that You love me and that You\u2019re not going to abandon me.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI was just weeping and praying for I don\u2019t know how long. Suddenly, for lack of a better word, I think I really just had something of a vision. I heard a voice say, \u201cI will never leave you or forsake you.\u201d I <em>knew<\/em> that it was God, and I can\u2019t tell you how I knew that. Part of it is because I <em>knew<\/em> those words from the Bible; and I saw [in my mind] my mom find my body, and I saw my little sisters huddled by the bedroom door. I remember thinking: \u201cWhat is this going to do to my mom?\u201d and \u201cWhat is this going to do to my little sisters if I leave like this?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI dropped the razor blade, and I kind of came back to this reality. In that moment, I decided to live. I was still grief-stricken; I was still terrified, but I knew that I had a Father who loves me, and who is faithful, and merciful, and just. There\u2019s no statute of limitations in His court room. He doesn\u2019t need DNA evidence, and He doesn\u2019t need police reports. He doesn\u2019t even need my testimony, because He was there. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m not saying you shouldn\u2019t report to the police, but just <em>knowing<\/em> that He had me at that moment\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014which is this beautiful miracle\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> It is. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014because your view of a father was so <em>opposite<\/em>\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014and horrific. Yet, you saw God as this <em>loving<\/em> Father, who would care for you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> It really is a miracle. You know, I\u2019ve been asked by people\u2014it\u2019s really funny\u2014one my pastors, actually, when we were joining a new church, because we had just moved\u2014I told him my story. He just looked at me, point blank, and he said, \u201cHow are you so normal?!\u201d [Laughter] I was like, \u201cI don\u2019t know! [Laughter] It was just God!\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014or \u201cHow are you still a Christian?\u201d\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Yes, yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014because a lot of people, growing up in what you grew up in,\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014would say, \u201cIf this is what it means to be a follower of Christ\u2014my dad\u2019s reading theology books one minute and beating me\u201d\u2014that\u2019s not where you\u2019re going to turn\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014for hope or help. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> No, that\u2019s uber-hypocrisy. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So for you to cling to faith in the midst of that, that\u2019s not been the path all your siblings have been on. It\u2019s the grace of God that kept you held in a relationship with Him in the midst of all of this. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Absolutely; yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You started sharing that story by talking about the dad that you loved and believed was a Christian. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> At 15, with a long history of abuse and hypocrisy, you still loved your dad. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Yes; and you know, I think in some sense, I still do. It\u2019s very <em>hard<\/em>\u2014I mean, a person is always going to be your parent no matter how evil they are. As a child, I think in particular, we look at our parents as superheroes. I think part of this is just being a loving person; we try to see the best in people. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI remember growing up and just seeing the amazing potential he had and the potential he had to be a godly teacher. I remember just praying that God would put godly men in his life, who would influence him. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Jennifer, like that is <em>remarkable<\/em> that you\u2019re not just filled with <em>hatred<\/em>; because of the things like that. It such a purity of heart, which is <em>beautiful<\/em>, but also shows the need of a child\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014to be loved; but you\u2019re <em>extending<\/em> grace and love to him. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> I think, also, though, it needs to be balanced with there is anger. In fact, I think that, you know, for a long time, I did struggle with anger and hate; but there is such a thing as righteous anger. We are called to be angry at the wicked. In the one sense, I love my dad in the sense that I dearly wish that God would work in his heart; I wish God would soften his heart and change him; but at the same time, I\u2019m angry at my dad, because of all the terrible things that he has done. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Did you ever express that to your dad? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Oh, absolutely; it was after all the abuse had kind of hit the fan. The church knew about it; he\u2019d been excommunicated. My parents were going through a divorce, and I was still\/it was like I was mad at him on the one hand, but I dearly wanted him to repent on the other. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe would do this thing, where he would go back and forth. Sometimes, he would apologize; and he\u2019d be like, \u201cI\u2019m so sorry; anything I can do to help you heal, I will do.\u201d Then, a week or a month later, he\u2019d deny that any of that had ever happened. He didn\u2019t remember apologizing. He didn\u2019t understand why I was mad at him. Eventually, it was really a mind game\u2014you know?\u2014because he\u2019s\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014or like multiple personalities. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> \u2014that\u2019s what it felt like. I told him over the phone\u2014I said, \u201cLook, Dad, I can either believe that you are <em>crazy<\/em>\u2014and you <em>didn\u2019t<\/em> understand what you were doing, and you still don\u2019t understand it; you\u2019re out of your mind\u2014or I can believe that you are evil, and you know <em>exactly<\/em> what you are doing.\u201d He said, \u201cWell, I am not crazy; so you\u2019re just going to have to accept that I am evil.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Wow! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> At that point, I was just <em>stunned<\/em>. It was the most honest thing he\u2019d ever said. I think the gravity of that hit me; but also, just the gravity of his sin\/the depth of what he was saying and that it was true. I just said: \u201cI can\u2019t do this anymore. I need you to get out of my life.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> What you\u2019re sharing today is causing some listeners to relive\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Sure. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014moments from their own childhood. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> There is pain, and there is grief; there\u2019s despair, and there is anger. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Yes; absolutely. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> What do they do with that? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> I would say take great comfort in knowing that God is angry with you [about the wrong done to you] and Jesus weeps with us. [Emotion in voice] The shortest verse in the Bible is that Jesus weeps. You know, there is this idea that Jesus\u2014even now, in the throne room of heaven, He is not sitting around having a party, relaxing with His friends\u2014He is interceding for us; He\u2019s praying for us; He is concerned for us; He\u2019s praying for us by name; He is weeping for me; and He is weeping for you. God is angry with the wicked. It\u2019s okay to grieve; we can weep with Christ. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI came to a place in my life where, even though I knew that my anger was justified, I also knew that I needed to feel joy again, and I needed to rest and focus on my kids and my marriage, and not be so torn apart all the time about what my dad had done. I told God\u2014I was like: \u201cLook, Jesus, You took my sins to the cross; You carried them to the cross; so I know that you can carry my anger, too, even though my anger isn\u2019t necessarily sinful\u2014You know I may express it in sinful ways sometimes\u2014but being angry with evil is not sinful. But at the same time, I know that You can feel this for me.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI said, \u201cJesus, I need You to carry this burden for me because it\u2019s ruining my life.\u201d It was amazing because, after praying that, I was able to rest in God and to kind of just give that to Him. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019ve always loved Psalm 34:18; it says \u201cThe Lord is close to the brokenhearted\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cand saves those who are crushed in spirit.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> As I hear your story, I\u2019m like, \u201cBoy, oh, boy; you talk about a broken-hearted Christian spirit.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Absolutely. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yet, you sit here today, and I hope a listener goes: \u201cThere\u2019s hope. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Yes; absolutely. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cMy story is as dark as hers, and here she is renewed in Christ.\u201d There\u2019s <em>hope<\/em> for anyone. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Also, Psalm 56:8: \u201cYou keep track of all my sorrows. You have collected all my tears in Your bottle. You have recorded each one in Your book.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> \u2014each one\/each tear. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014each tear. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> It\u2019s not just every crying episode\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> \u2014every tear. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I would think those who can relate to your story would find some level of healing in reading your book. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> I hope so. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We have the book available. You can go to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com, to order the book, <em>Not Forsaken: A Story of Life After Abuse: How Faith Brought One Woman from Victim to Survivor<\/em>, by Jennifer Michelle Greenberg. Again, order it from us online at FamilyLifeToday.com; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to get a copy. The website, again, is FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can order Jennifer\u2019s book by calling 1-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d I know this is going to be a hard book for some people to read; but again, we hope it will be a healing book for folks as well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI know you guys [Dave and Ann] are aware; because we see the prayer requests that come in regularly, here, at FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> from listeners, who get in touch with us, asking us to pray for very difficult marriage and family situations\/for relationships that are strained\u2014issues related to substance abuse to domestic violence like we\u2019ve talked about\u2014all kinds of issues that are fracturing families. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHere, at FamilyLife, our goal\/our mission is to try to effectively develop godly marriages and families. We believe\u2014when marriages and families are anchored in what God\u2019s Word teaches, when people are surrendered to Jesus\/living for Him and living humbly with one another\u2014God does a transforming work in our lives and in those relationships, and we reflect His goodness and His glory to a watching world. That\u2019s our goal here, at FamilyLife, to provide you with practical biblical help and hope for the issues you are facing in your marriage. <br>\u00a0\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThanks to those of you who make this ministry possible through your financial support. You are the ones who cover the cost of producing and syndicating this program\/this podcast\u2014all of the ways that FamilyLife is being accessed these days. Your donations are making this program available to tens of thousands of people all around the world every day. We\u2019re grateful for your partnership with us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you\u2019re a regular listener, and you\u2019ve never made a donation, today is a great day to join the team and to show your support for the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Go online at FamilyLifeToday.com to donate, or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to donate. Thanks, in advance, for whatever you are able to do. It\u2019s great to be in partnership with you. We appreciate you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow, Jennifer joins us again to share about how she has processed, as an adult\/as a wife and a mom now, her experience of childhood abuse and how God is bringing healing in her life. I hope you can tune in for that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2020 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:27:39"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["25.32M"],"filesize_raw":["26549810"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-306241.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-306241.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom 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Greenberg tells her story of growing up with an abusive father. Hear how Jennifer found hope in Genesis 50:20, \"You meant evil against me, but God meant it for good.\"","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2020-07-09.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> It wasn\u2019t until she was a young adult that Jennifer Michelle Greenberg realized that there was something wrong with her family dynamic. Her dad, who was an elder in his local church, also abused her physically when they were home. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> He would be one person in public\/at church and then a completely different person in private. Growing up, I thought this was normal; and I actually thought that everyone lived like this. They\u2019d be one person at church\u2014you\u2019d put on your Sunday smile\u2014and then you\u2019d go home; and you\u2019d lose your temper; and you\u2019d cuss; and you\u2019d\u2014whatever else people did. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2014part of that was part of the reason I didn\u2019t report for a long time because I did think it was normal. I had no reason to believe that the men at our church weren\u2019t totally different people at home. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Thursday, July 9<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I\u2019m Bob Lepine. You can find us online at FamilyLifeToday.com. Jennifer Michelle Greenberg\u2019s childhood was the kind of childhood we would want no child to have to experience. She shares her story with us today. Stay with us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us on the Thursday edition. There may be some listeners who want to be careful with today\u2019s program, because it contains some descriptions of abuse\/physical violence that may be hard for people to hear. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI was thinking about the verse in Ephesians that says that we are to have nothing to do with the unfruitful works of darkness; but instead, we are to expose them. You think about that, and you ask the question: \u201cSo why are we to expose darkness?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Because why do you want to bring darkness to light? Why reveal the unpleasantness, especially when it\u2019s been <em>horrible<\/em>? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think that Satan does his best work in the darkness and in hiding. When we bring it into the light, then God can expose the darkness and show us truth. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, and I think, as well, we have a clearer understanding of what is light and darkness\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014when we can see darkness brought to light. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Absolutely. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And we\u2019re bringing that up because we\u2019ve got a guest joining us today whose life was full of unfruitful works of darkness. Jennifer Michelle Greenberg joining us on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Welcome. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Thank you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Jennifer is a mom; she\u2019s a wife. She lives in Houston, Texas; mom of three daughters. She and Jason have been married for 13 years. She is also a musician\/a vocalist. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Opera singer. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So, you\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Can we get a little? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> No. [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I wouldn\u2019t do that either. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You want to hear us? We can\u2014[feigns singing]. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> No; they don\u2019t want\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> They want to continually do this. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014nobody wants to hear us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> No; it\u2019s not going to happen. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You have written a book called <em>Not Forsaken<\/em>. That is a memoir, and it\u2019s a memoir about the darkness you grew up in. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I\u2019m sure, as you thought about this book, you thought, \u201cThis will be therapeutic for me to write this down\u201d; but to go public and to tell the world what happened in your home\u2014especially when you\u2019ve got parents, and siblings, and others who were a part of this, who are still living\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014that\u2019s a tough decision to have to wrestle with. Tell us how you wrestled with that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> It was really tough. You know, there are so many parts of the book that were cathartic and therapeutic; but at the same time, they were incredibly <em>painful<\/em> to write. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> You know, I had to go back over old memories that I had already packed away and tucked away in the back of my head, and hadn\u2019t really processed a lot of the grief. A lot of times, I felt like I was kind of on an archaeological dig in my brain\u2014you know?\u2014digging up these old tragedies\/these old crimes, and dusting them off, and identifying them and calling them what they were, and exposing them to the light, as you said. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut you know, one of the Bible stories that I really clung to, as I was writing, was the story of Joseph and how his brothers abused him. He was sold into slavery; he was falsely accused, and falsely imprisoned, and just treated so badly by everyone; but God put him in a position, where he was over many people. He was\/he had the opportunity to help a lot of people, because of the things that he\u2019d been through. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe says in Genesis 50, verse 20: \u201cYou intended to harm me, but God intended it for good to accomplish what is now being done, the saving of many lives.\u201d That has been my hope\u2014that God would use what He brought me through, and what He healed me from, to save many lives. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Your book is called <em>Not Forsaken<\/em>. It\u2019s the story of life after abuse\u2014how faith brought you from being a victim to being a survivor. As our listeners are going to hear, you experienced significant physical abuse at the hands of your father\u2014emotional abuse\/verbal abuse from him\u2014and manipulation and abuse from your mom. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; I don\u2019t think I\u2019ve read a book, where my emotions were <em>so extreme<\/em>\u2014I mean, I felt hopeless; and then, by the end, hopeful. I mean the fact that you\u2019re sitting here right now\u2014it is Joseph\u2019s story; it\u2019s <em>amazing<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI felt <em>extreme<\/em> anger. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Me too. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I wanted to throw the book against the wall at what happened to you; and yet, forgiveness and compassion. It\u2019s going to be a journey today to take our listeners through your life. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Thank you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Are your earliest memories of growing up memories of abuse? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> The majority of them; yes. I think part of that is because traumatic memories stick with us for so long. For example, I think of a story when my dad threw an iron at my head; and those are the kind of details that just get burned into your mind. It\u2019s very hard to reconcile\u2014especially, now that I have kids\u2014I think, you know, as I look at my own children and I\u2014no matter what they ever do, I can\u2019t imagine treating them that way. I can no longer say of my dad, \u201cWell, maybe, he was just having a bad day,\u201d because I know, as a parent, I would <em>never<\/em> do that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Your dad was reading a book on theology\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014and you were making too much noise. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Bob:<\/strong> What do you remember?\u2014how old were you at this time? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> I had to have been ten or eleven years old, because we had recently moved to our house in Austin. I was playing with my dolls in the living room. It would have been a Saturday or a Sunday, because my dad was home from work. He was sitting on the couch, reading a theology book. I remember him telling me to be quiet, and I don\u2019t know if I was noisy or not; but whatever happened, suddenly, he grabbed me from behind, and he jerked me around, and he just started hitting me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI remember thinking, as a kid: \u201cIt\u2019s going to be okay. This is just a regular spanking. He\u2019ll hit me two or three times; it\u2019ll be over, and I can go back to playing\u201d; but he just kept hitting me, and he wasn\u2019t stopping. I started <em>screaming<\/em>. Finally, my mom ran in; and she said, \u201cWhat are you doing?!\u201d He dropped me, and I didn\u2019t even bother getting my toys or anything. I just <em>ran<\/em> as fast as I could into my bedroom, and I hid. I just kind of huddled by the closet on the floor. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI remember hearing them yelling, and I remember just waiting for someone to come and take care of me. I waited a long time; I just sat there. I remember looking at my arm and seeing bruises already showing up. I remember comparing the size of my hands to those bruise marks and thinking, \u201cThis is how big my dad\u2019s hands are,\u201d and just realizing, in that moment, that I was really in a lot of danger. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think that was the one time that I ever remember my dad apologizing to me. I want to say it was one\/two\/three days later, but he called me on the phone from work. He basically told me, \u201cI\u2019m sorry that that happened\u201d; but I had overheard them yelling and arguing, and I <em>knew<\/em> that my mom had threatened to tell our pastor if he didn\u2019t say, \u201cSorry.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> So you were going to church as a family. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And would your parents say they were believers and Christians? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Yes; absolutely. In fact, my dad\u2014he would teach Sunday school. He\u2019s <em>incredibly<\/em> smart; he has a PhD in biology. He\u2019s just\/he\u2019s a very intellectual, academic guy. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Was that the first time that he had lost his temper with you? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Oh, no; not at\u2014at home, he was a very different person. He would be one person in public\/at church\u2014and I assume at work\u2014and then a completely different person in private. Growing up, I thought this was normal. I actually thought that everyone lived like this. They\u2019d be one person at church\u2014you\u2019d put on your Sunday smile\u2014and then you\u2019d go home; and you\u2019d lose your temper; and you\u2019d cuss; and you\u2019d look at porn or whatever else people did. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tPart of that was part of the reason I didn\u2019t report for a long time, because I did think it was normal. I had no reason to believe that the men at our church weren\u2019t totally different people at home. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> What you just described in terms of physical abuse\u2014you talked about cussing and porn\u2014this was all a part of your dad\u2019s behavior; right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Absolutely; yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Again, you thought, \u201cIt\u2019s normal.\u201d It\u2019s what you had grown up with. Had you ever feared for your safety, or did you just think you were getting bad spankings as a child? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> I constantly feared for my safety. In fact, I would have recurring nightmares about being raped or being murdered; and for a long time, as a child\u2014and I think this is because I thought this was a normal way to live\u2014I didn\u2019t expect to live until I was 21; I expected to die. The reason was because I thought that all men were as violent as my dad. I thought he was normal. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Did you think he was going to kill you? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> I did; I did. I thought if he didn\u2019t kill me, then I would probably get so depressed that I would kill myself; and that if I ever got married, I would marry a man who was violent. I just\u2014again, this was my normal. It was how I thought everyone was. Based on my experiences, I didn\u2019t see how I was going to survive. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; you opened the book with several stories. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> One of them you just told, but the other one with the razor blade\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014talk about that. I mean, that\u2019s just\u2014I\u2019ve never read a book, where it started that way; and then we\u2019re introduced to you. It\u2019s like, \u201cOh my goodness!\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> When I was a teenager\u201415\/16\u2014I overheard my dad talking to my mom. He was telling her what a beautiful figure he thought I was developing. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014and you\u2019re the oldest. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> I\u2019m the oldest; yes. I had been inundated with his perverse comments and his sexual abuse for so long; and I think just as a teenager, I was starting to look at my situation with less of a childish perspective and more of an adult perspective. There was just\u2014there\u2019s a maturity going on; there\u2019s a hormonal development. I was starting to understand more what sexuality was; and suddenly, I realized that my dad was a sexual predator and that I was his prey. I wanted to <em>die<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Emotion in voice] For a long time, I had kind of thought: \u201cWell, I just need to make it until I\u2019m 18. I can leave. I can get out of here. I can go to college. I can start my own life. I\u2019ll get a little apartment by myself\u201d; but at that point in my life, I just didn\u2019t think I could make it another three years. I went and got a razor blade out of my mom\u2019s art supplies, and I took it up to my bedroom. I just sat on my bed, and I prayed. I told God, \u201cI can\u2019t stand this anymore, so I really need a sign from You that You love me and that You\u2019re not going to abandon me.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI was just weeping and praying for I don\u2019t know how long. Suddenly, for lack of a better word, I think I really just had something of a vision. I heard a voice say, \u201cI will never leave you or forsake you.\u201d I <em>knew<\/em> that it was God, and I can\u2019t tell you how I knew that. Part of it is because I <em>knew<\/em> those words from the Bible; and I saw [in my mind] my mom find my body, and I saw my little sisters huddled by the bedroom door. I remember thinking: \u201cWhat is this going to do to my mom?\u201d and \u201cWhat is this going to do to my little sisters if I leave like this?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI dropped the razor blade, and I kind of came back to this reality. In that moment, I decided to live. I was still grief-stricken; I was still terrified, but I knew that I had a Father who loves me, and who is faithful, and merciful, and just. There\u2019s no statute of limitations in His court room. He doesn\u2019t need DNA evidence, and He doesn\u2019t need police reports. He doesn\u2019t even need my testimony, because He was there. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m not saying you shouldn\u2019t report to the police, but just <em>knowing<\/em> that He had me at that moment\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014which is this beautiful miracle\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> It is. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014because your view of a father was so <em>opposite<\/em>\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014and horrific. Yet, you saw God as this <em>loving<\/em> Father, who would care for you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> It really is a miracle. You know, I\u2019ve been asked by people\u2014it\u2019s really funny\u2014one my pastors, actually, when we were joining a new church, because we had just moved\u2014I told him my story. He just looked at me, point blank, and he said, \u201cHow are you so normal?!\u201d [Laughter] I was like, \u201cI don\u2019t know! [Laughter] It was just God!\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014or \u201cHow are you still a Christian?\u201d\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Yes, yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014because a lot of people, growing up in what you grew up in,\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014would say, \u201cIf this is what it means to be a follower of Christ\u2014my dad\u2019s reading theology books one minute and beating me\u201d\u2014that\u2019s not where you\u2019re going to turn\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014for hope or help. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> No, that\u2019s uber-hypocrisy. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So for you to cling to faith in the midst of that, that\u2019s not been the path all your siblings have been on. It\u2019s the grace of God that kept you held in a relationship with Him in the midst of all of this. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Absolutely; yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You started sharing that story by talking about the dad that you loved and believed was a Christian. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> At 15, with a long history of abuse and hypocrisy, you still loved your dad. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Yes; and you know, I think in some sense, I still do. It\u2019s very <em>hard<\/em>\u2014I mean, a person is always going to be your parent no matter how evil they are. As a child, I think in particular, we look at our parents as superheroes. I think part of this is just being a loving person; we try to see the best in people. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI remember growing up and just seeing the amazing potential he had and the potential he had to be a godly teacher. I remember just praying that God would put godly men in his life, who would influence him. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Jennifer, like that is <em>remarkable<\/em> that you\u2019re not just filled with <em>hatred<\/em>; because of the things like that. It such a purity of heart, which is <em>beautiful<\/em>, but also shows the need of a child\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014to be loved; but you\u2019re <em>extending<\/em> grace and love to him. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> I think, also, though, it needs to be balanced with there is anger. In fact, I think that, you know, for a long time, I did struggle with anger and hate; but there is such a thing as righteous anger. We are called to be angry at the wicked. In the one sense, I love my dad in the sense that I dearly wish that God would work in his heart; I wish God would soften his heart and change him; but at the same time, I\u2019m angry at my dad, because of all the terrible things that he has done. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Did you ever express that to your dad? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Oh, absolutely; it was after all the abuse had kind of hit the fan. The church knew about it; he\u2019d been excommunicated. My parents were going through a divorce, and I was still\/it was like I was mad at him on the one hand, but I dearly wanted him to repent on the other. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe would do this thing, where he would go back and forth. Sometimes, he would apologize; and he\u2019d be like, \u201cI\u2019m so sorry; anything I can do to help you heal, I will do.\u201d Then, a week or a month later, he\u2019d deny that any of that had ever happened. He didn\u2019t remember apologizing. He didn\u2019t understand why I was mad at him. Eventually, it was really a mind game\u2014you know?\u2014because he\u2019s\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014or like multiple personalities. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> \u2014that\u2019s what it felt like. I told him over the phone\u2014I said, \u201cLook, Dad, I can either believe that you are <em>crazy<\/em>\u2014and you <em>didn\u2019t<\/em> understand what you were doing, and you still don\u2019t understand it; you\u2019re out of your mind\u2014or I can believe that you are evil, and you know <em>exactly<\/em> what you are doing.\u201d He said, \u201cWell, I am not crazy; so you\u2019re just going to have to accept that I am evil.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Wow! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> At that point, I was just <em>stunned<\/em>. It was the most honest thing he\u2019d ever said. I think the gravity of that hit me; but also, just the gravity of his sin\/the depth of what he was saying and that it was true. I just said: \u201cI can\u2019t do this anymore. I need you to get out of my life.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> What you\u2019re sharing today is causing some listeners to relive\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Sure. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014moments from their own childhood. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> There is pain, and there is grief; there\u2019s despair, and there is anger. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Yes; absolutely. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> What do they do with that? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> I would say take great comfort in knowing that God is angry with you [about the wrong done to you] and Jesus weeps with us. [Emotion in voice] The shortest verse in the Bible is that Jesus weeps. You know, there is this idea that Jesus\u2014even now, in the throne room of heaven, He is not sitting around having a party, relaxing with His friends\u2014He is interceding for us; He\u2019s praying for us; He is concerned for us; He\u2019s praying for us by name; He is weeping for me; and He is weeping for you. God is angry with the wicked. It\u2019s okay to grieve; we can weep with Christ. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI came to a place in my life where, even though I knew that my anger was justified, I also knew that I needed to feel joy again, and I needed to rest and focus on my kids and my marriage, and not be so torn apart all the time about what my dad had done. I told God\u2014I was like: \u201cLook, Jesus, You took my sins to the cross; You carried them to the cross; so I know that you can carry my anger, too, even though my anger isn\u2019t necessarily sinful\u2014You know I may express it in sinful ways sometimes\u2014but being angry with evil is not sinful. But at the same time, I know that You can feel this for me.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI said, \u201cJesus, I need You to carry this burden for me because it\u2019s ruining my life.\u201d It was amazing because, after praying that, I was able to rest in God and to kind of just give that to Him. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019ve always loved Psalm 34:18; it says \u201cThe Lord is close to the brokenhearted\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cand saves those who are crushed in spirit.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> As I hear your story, I\u2019m like, \u201cBoy, oh, boy; you talk about a broken-hearted Christian spirit.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Absolutely. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yet, you sit here today, and I hope a listener goes: \u201cThere\u2019s hope. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> Yes; absolutely. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201cMy story is as dark as hers, and here she is renewed in Christ.\u201d There\u2019s <em>hope<\/em> for anyone. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Also, Psalm 56:8: \u201cYou keep track of all my sorrows. You have collected all my tears in Your bottle. You have recorded each one in Your book.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> \u2014each one\/each tear. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014each tear. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> It\u2019s not just every crying episode\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> \u2014every tear. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I would think those who can relate to your story would find some level of healing in reading your book. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jennifer:<\/strong> I hope so. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We have the book available. You can go to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com, to order the book, <em>Not Forsaken: A Story of Life After Abuse: How Faith Brought One Woman from Victim to Survivor<\/em>, by Jennifer Michelle Greenberg. Again, order it from us online at FamilyLifeToday.com; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to get a copy. The website, again, is FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can order Jennifer\u2019s book by calling 1-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d I know this is going to be a hard book for some people to read; but again, we hope it will be a healing book for folks as well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI know you guys [Dave and Ann] are aware; because we see the prayer requests that come in regularly, here, at FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> from listeners, who get in touch with us, asking us to pray for very difficult marriage and family situations\/for relationships that are strained\u2014issues related to substance abuse to domestic violence like we\u2019ve talked about\u2014all kinds of issues that are fracturing families. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHere, at FamilyLife, our goal\/our mission is to try to effectively develop godly marriages and families. We believe\u2014when marriages and families are anchored in what God\u2019s Word teaches, when people are surrendered to Jesus\/living for Him and living humbly with one another\u2014God does a transforming work in our lives and in those relationships, and we reflect His goodness and His glory to a watching world. That\u2019s our goal here, at FamilyLife, to provide you with practical biblical help and hope for the issues you are facing in your marriage. <br>\u00a0\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThanks to those of you who make this ministry possible through your financial support. You are the ones who cover the cost of producing and syndicating this program\/this podcast\u2014all of the ways that FamilyLife is being accessed these days. Your donations are making this program available to tens of thousands of people all around the world every day. We\u2019re grateful for your partnership with us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you\u2019re a regular listener, and you\u2019ve never made a donation, today is a great day to join the team and to show your support for the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Go online at FamilyLifeToday.com to donate, or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to donate. Thanks, in advance, for whatever you are able to do. It\u2019s great to be in partnership with you. We appreciate you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow, Jennifer joins us again to share about how she has processed, as an adult\/as a wife and a mom now, her experience of childhood abuse and how God is bringing healing in her life. I hope you can tune in for that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2020 FamilyLife. 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