{"id":306210,"date":"2020-06-26T07:00:04","date_gmt":"2020-06-26T11:00:04","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/managing-love-and-money\/"},"modified":"2025-04-22T14:24:57","modified_gmt":"2025-04-22T18:24:57","slug":"managing-love-and-money","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/managing-love-and-money\/","title":{"rendered":"Managing Love and Money"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>Brian and Cherie Lowe know a little about managing money. Working together, they paid off $127,000 worth of debt in four years, and they&#8217;ve never been happier-or more intimate! The Lowes tell how working as a team to manage the household finances can lead to surprising benefits.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Working together, Cherie and Brian Lowe were able to pay off $127,000 worth of debt in four years. The Lowes tell how working as a team to manage the household finances can lead to surprising benefits.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"audio","audio_file":"https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2020-06-26.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:28:26","filesize":"26.03M","filesize_raw":"27299500","date_recorded":"2020-06-26 07:00:04","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2082,2851,2862],"tags":[4525],"podcast_series":[8271],"cwp_profile":[9525],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-306210","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-communication","category-finances","category-understanding-differences","tag-finances","podcast_series-your-money-your-marriage","cwp_profile-brian-and-cherie-lowe","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/306210\/managing-love-and-money","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/306210\/managing-love-and-money","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"wioR9xBIaR\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/managing-love-and-money\/\">Managing Love and Money<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/managing-love-and-money\/embed\/#?secret=wioR9xBIaR\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Managing Love and Money&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"wioR9xBIaR\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg",508,508,false]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"kfairris@familylife.com","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/kfairrisfamilylife-com\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"Working together, Cherie and Brian Lowe were able to pay off $127,000 worth of debt in four years. The Lowes tell how working as a team to manage the household finances can lead to surprising benefits.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"<ul>\n<li>Find more from Cherie Lowe at QueenofFree.net.<\/li>\n<li>Check out all that's available on the FamilyLife Podcast Network.\u00a0 https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/familylife-podcast-network\/<\/li>\n<li>Have the FamilyLife Today\u00ae podcast and resources helped you?\u00a0 Consider becoming a Legacy Partner, a monthly supporter of FamilyLife.\u00a0https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/legacy<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2020-06-26.pdf","transcript_content":"<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>Brian and Cherie Lowe had more than $100,000 in debt when they decided to <em>do<\/em> something about it. They were in it for the long haul.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Cherie:<\/strong> <a id=\"_Hlk6483452\"><\/a>When we started paying off debt, we thought it would take us 15 years\u20147\u00bd if we really hustled\u2014and God showed up in a major way. It took us less than four, which is, in my opinion, nothing short of a miracle.<\/p>\n<p>I think there is a temptation, too, to just <em>not<\/em> be <em>wise<\/em> about our money\u2014and throw that out there and say, \u201cGod will provide,\u201d\u2014you know?\u2014and just kind of toss our hands up in the air and <em>not<\/em> be good stewards and manage what He already <em>has<\/em> provided.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Friday, June 26<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I'm Bob Lepine. We\u2019ll hear from Brian and Cherie Lowe today about how God showed up as they began their journey of digging out from a mountain of debt. Stay with us.<\/p>\n<p>And welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. I had the chance to talk\u2014this was, I don\u2019t know, maybe a year ago\u2014with a couple, who are very publicly online for accountability, working their way out of debt.<\/p>\n<p>In fact, our guests today\u2014I don\u2019t know if you guys know them\u2014Brian and Cherie Lowe join us again. Welcome back to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Cherie:<\/strong> Thank you.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> So the couple I\u2019m talking about\u2014Phillip and Jasmine Holmes\u2014do you know them?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Cherie:<\/strong> No, I don\u2019t.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> Okay; so they\u2019re not as far gone as <em>you<\/em> were. They\u2019re in the mid-60s [$60,000] in terms of\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014meaning in debt? [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014you mean in debt. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> I just wanted to make that <em>clear<\/em>. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> They\u2019re not as far into debt as you guys [were]. You were past [$]100,000 when you said, \u201cWe\u2019ve got to get out of debt.\u201d They were in the mid-60s.<\/p>\n<p>But the thing they said, that parallels what you\u2019ve already shared with us this week, is they said: \u201cSome day, we\u2019d like to adopt. We began to look at the fact that we can\u2019t adopt if we\u2019re in this level of debt. We\u2019re going to have to have some money to be able to adopt.\u201d That vision of what they wanted to do in their marriage was the motivation for them to start <em>denying<\/em> some present desires for a future reality that was bigger than the momentary desire that they might have.<\/p>\n<p>Brian and Cherie have written a book called <em>Your Money, Your Marriage<\/em> and another book called <em>Slaying the Debt Dragon<\/em>. The first book is where you kind of chart the path you took to get out of debt. This book is all about the fact that your marriage is not going to be what God wants it to be if you\u2019re in debt; that\u2019s going to have an impact on your intimacy and your oneness. Am I overstating the case to say: \u201cYour marriage can\u2019t be what God wants it to be if you\u2019re in significant debt\u201d?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Cherie:<\/strong> I don\u2019t know about significant debt\u2014<em>even<\/em> if you don\u2019t have <em>any<\/em> debt\u2014so people, who are listening: \u201cManaging money <em>well together<\/em> takes these skills; and when we\u2019re able to manage it well together, then we are able to function within God\u2019s kingdom more effectively.\u201d Maybe God has called us to adopt; or maybe He\u2019s called us to be generous givers in our local faith community; or a number of different things. We want to be prepared to do what God has <em>made<\/em> us to do; and when we\u2019re working together well with money, we\u2019re able to do those things.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> I <em>love<\/em> that; but what if we have one spouse, who is all about that\u2014like, \u201cOh, I want to get this debt down; we could do all these things\u2026\u201d\u2014but the other person isn\u2019t on board?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> Why are you asking that, Ann? [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; why are you asking that, Ann? I wonder who wants to get the debt down and who doesn\u2019t. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> I want to get the debt down; but I also want to do other things, too; I like <em>both<\/em>. But what if the other person\u2019s like, \u201cNo,\u201d\u2014like\u2014\u201cNo, I don\u2019t think this is necessary.\u201d How do you respond to that?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Cherie:<\/strong> Sure; well, I\u2019ve got a story; and I\u2019m going to let Brian share a scriptural principle behind that as well. One of the things that Brian did, early on in our journey, that spoke volumes to me\u2014because I was the person that was a little more hesitant, and I wasn\u2019t sure that that was really something we could even do\u2014we had a credit card at the time. It had about $16,000 on it; it was for what we said were <em>emergencies<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p>Brian said one day to me: \u201cYou know what? If I have an emergency, it\u2019s not going to happen in the drive-through of Starbucks<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>.\u201d I thought, \u201cThis is a very interesting principle.\u201d He very quietly, and without any fanfare, slipped that credit card out of his wallet and put it in the desk drawer. And he didn\u2019t say to me, this time, \u201cYou put yours in there, too; you do this.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Ooh, that\u2019s good.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Cherie:<\/strong> He just said, \u201cI\u2019m not going to do this anymore.\u201d I carried mine for a few weeks more, and it dawned on me that I was probably not going to have an emergency at Target<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> either. So one day, with similar kind of just low-key ceremony, put it right in the desk, along with his as well. We never used it again, and that was 2008.<\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>You\u2019re living without credit cards?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Cherie:<\/strong> We don\u2019t; we have a debit card that we use for those types of purchases.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> But you don\u2019t get points and miles and all of that stuff.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Cherie:<\/strong> No, I\u2019m good with laying that down; because for us, it was <em>too<\/em> dangerous. We <em>knew<\/em> that we would slip back into the habit again. Eventually, we did shut down the account; we cut it up. But it took a baby step in between for us. Some people just can\u2019t quite go to the cut-it-up stage; they need like an in-between stage. Sometimes I tease them and say: \u201cFreeze it. Put it in some ice, and throw it in your freezer. Then if you really have an emergency, get the hair dryer out; and you can get it back out again.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>But in the desk drawer for us was that <em>first<\/em> step of obedience.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> This is <em>radical<\/em>. I\u2019m thinking of parents that have teenagers and college students, who have credit cards; they\u2019re using them without any limit. What\u2019s happening in the future generations? Are they incurring more debt or less?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian:<\/strong> I think it depends on which future generation. The young folks that can have credit cards <em>right now<\/em> are still incurring debt; and it\u2019s near the trillion-dollar mark, if I\u2019m not mistaken. That\u2019s too much; it\u2019s too much for folks to handle.<\/p>\n<p>Again, even if you pay it off, research has shown that you spend about 40 percent more if you have a credit card; because you don\u2019t feel it. It doesn\u2019t trigger the pain center of your brain the same way that cash does. What we did with our daughters\u2014I think fall into that <em>next<\/em> generation coming up\u2014is we\u2019ve started banking with them <em>now<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p>And my younger daughter, when she was about 14, I got a debit card, that was not attached to our bank account, so that <em>she<\/em> could see what was going on: so that she could manage it and learn how to do that. Now that she\u2019s 16, she has a student checking account that links through her savings. That\u2019s one of the things that we\u2019ve done to teach <em>them<\/em> about managing the money and the resources that you have: money in, money out.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>We got our kids cards\u2014whether it\u2019s a debit card or a credit card\u2014we got them when they started high school, because we wanted them to mess up at home rather than messing up out in the world with it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Cherie:<\/strong> Yes; well, and they might not even know the terminology. The difference between debt and debit is one letter; and a lot of kids don\u2019t know the difference, to be quite honest, because we\u2019re not <em>talking<\/em> about financial things regularly.<\/p>\n<p>Brian has a great scriptural kind of association with that idea of the reluctant spouse that we were talking about earlier\u2014just an idea of what you can do if you are that spouse that's gung-ho\/you want to get things in order\u2014but you feel like there are brakes on the other side.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian: <\/strong>You're not the only one that's asked that\u2014that's the number-one question we get when we speak at churches or conferences. Someone always comes up and asks: \u201cWhat do you do to get my spouse on the same page? How do you do that?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I was reading through the Bible and\u2014actually, <em>The Message<\/em>, the transliteration by Eugene Peterson\u2014and Romans 5 just hit me like a ton of bricks. There\u2019s this verse in there, where he references passionate patience; this idea of an active waiting.<\/p>\n<p>I think the putting the credit card in the drawer\u2014the doing everything that you can\u2014and to have those conversations, like what you talked about: \u201cI feel disrespected,\u201d \u201cI need your help,\u201d\u2014that\u2019s something <em>powerful<\/em> that a wife, especially, can say to her husband\u2014\u201cHelp me with this.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Talk about this: you say\/you talk about it in the book about wedding vows and then money vows\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian:<\/strong> Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014and how important money vows are\u2014almost just as important as a promise you\u2019re making about your marriage. What about the promises you\u2019re making about your money? I\u2019d like to hear a little bit about that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Cherie:<\/strong> Yes; so I think you know, especially, when you\u2019re planning a wedding\u2014if you\u2019ve been through this recently, either yourself or you have a child, who\u2019s gotten married\u2014there\u2019s <em>so many<\/em> details involved with the wedding. We have to make sure we have the right dresses, and we have the right music, and food\u2014and the whole nine yards\u2014but rarely, do we really <em>think<\/em> through our vows: \u201cWhat is it we\u2019re saying when we get to the end of the aisle?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>For us, we kind of composed our own <em>money<\/em> vows, which are a little bit further step out from that\/promises that we made. For instance: \u201cI promise to share freely the money I make, resisting the temptation to see what\u2019s mine as mine and what\u2019s yours as yours,\u201d \u201cTo never lie or avoid talking about what I\u2019ve spent,\u201d\u2014that\u2019s a big one.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s big.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> That\u2019s a big one.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Cherie:<\/strong> Right?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014or hiding it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Cherie:<\/strong> That\u2019s the very next one.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Not that I\u2019ve done that. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Cherie:<\/strong> \u201cRefrain from hiding or hoarding money,\u201d\u2014very next one.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Hey, wait, wait, wait. Before you go to the next one, I heard my wife over there say she\u2019s <em>hidden<\/em> something about money.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Maybe just for a little\u2014not money\u2014like maybe a bag of some things I bought. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Cherie:<\/strong> Oh yes. There\u2019s a <em>whole<\/em> culture around that right now though\u2014it\u2019s like on memes and stuff like that, where like: \u201cHide your packages before your husband gets home.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, really?<\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>Cherie:<\/strong> Yes! And it\u2019s <em>not<\/em> funny, friends.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> No, it isn\u2019t; not at all.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Cherie:<\/strong> That\u2019s dangerous; that\u2019s <em>deceit<\/em>. It <em>begins<\/em> like that\u2014small\u2014and then it blows into something <em>much<\/em>, <em>much<\/em> more.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> I will say\u2014my mom used to do that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Cherie:<\/strong> Oh, did she?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, she\u2019s like, \u201cGirls, get those bags in the house before your dad gets home.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Talk about God providing\u2014talk about trusting God in this area of your life, as well\u2014money.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Cherie:<\/strong> I think it\u2019s a combination of a couple of things that we\u2019re\u2014number one: certainly, always dependent on God to provide for our needs. When we started paying off debt, we thought it would take us 15 years\u20147\u00bd if we really hustled\u2014and God showed up in a major way. It took us less than four, which is, in my opinion, nothing short of a miracle.<\/p>\n<p>But I think there is a temptation, too, to just <em>not<\/em> be <em>wise<\/em> about our money\u2014and throw that out there and say, \u201cGod will provide,\u201d\u2014you know?\u2014and just kind of toss our hands up in the air and <em>not<\/em> be good stewards and manage what He already <em>has<\/em> provided.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> When we first got married, we came on staff with Campus Crusade for Christ<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>. We raised our own financial support for 15 years, and there were times where we were tight\/really tight. I remember one time our boys were little, and they really wanted a Power Wheels<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>; we just couldn\u2019t buy one. They were $200, and $200 to us was like a $1,000,000 at the time.<\/p>\n<p>We said, \u201cLet\u2019s pray and ask God.\u201d And that\u2019s the part that\u2019s so beautiful; that it brings God into the equation\/into the picture. We prayed every night. Dave, how long did we pray?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Months\u2014every night with them out loud.<\/p>\n<p>I was thinking, \u201cIf it would be today, it would be so easy to slap down a credit card\u201d; because that is like the replacement substitute god\u2014boom!\u2014I got it!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; and it\u2019s fun to do that, as a parent, to buy these things that they desire and want; but for us, we couldn\u2019t; so it brought God into the picture.<\/p>\n<p>And we, one day, got a check in the mail. Do you remember why?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> It was out of nowhere for some speaking thing that I did. I had forgotten about it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Maybe like months and months ago. And it was for the <em>exact<\/em> amount of that Power Wheels. We took that to our boys and said, \u201cLook at how God has provided.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Cherie: <\/strong>\u2014\u201cshowed up.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>And it\u2019s beautiful, and it\u2019s not that God always does that; but it was such a great picture of going to God <em>first<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Cherie: <\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> You know what you\u2019re illustrating with that\u2014and I ran across this, and I can\u2019t verify that this is 100 percent true\u2014but in 1863, when they minted the first two-cent piece, somewhere the idea struck somebody, \u201cWe need to write on this two-cent piece \u2018In God We Trust.\u2019\u201d I think the reason is because somebody recognized, pretty early on, how easy it is for us to go: \u201c<em>This<\/em> is what I trust.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u201cI trust my money. This is my provider; this is my protector; this is my source. My joy comes from this; my happiness comes from this.\u201d We begin to make money\u2014it has the same attributes\/many of the same attributes that God has. We don\u2019t pray \u201cGive us this day our daily bread\u201d\u2014because we\u2019ve got bread at home\u2014we don\u2019t have to pray for that. We don\u2019t pray \u201cLord, are You going to provide?\u201d\u2014because we\u2019ve got a credit card.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>And I think we need to get back to the idea that it is <em>in<\/em> God we trust\u2014not in the money\u2014that whatever little you have or how much you have\u2014as soon as you start to think: \u201cMy security\u2019s there,\u201d \u201cMy joy is there,\u201d you\u2019ve assigned to an inanimate object something that belongs only to God.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> It\u2019s become an idol.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Cherie:<\/strong> That is <em>huge<\/em>. I think God <em>knew<\/em>; in the Scripture, we know that there are well over <em>2,000<\/em> verses about money\/possessions. One out of every ten verses in the gospels is either about money or possessions. Sixteen of the parables that Jesus uses to teach are about money or possessions. God knew it would have competition for our hearts; I think it\u2019s so important that we recognize that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> Did your debt\u2014back when you were [$]100,000-plus in debt\u2014did it ever threaten the foundation of your marriage? Did you ever look at each other and go, \u201cI don\u2019t want to be married to you anymore\u201d?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian:<\/strong> I don\u2019t think we ever got <em>there<\/em>, because we were both just sort of numb to it together. But there was some passive aggressiveness that didn\u2019t have to be there: \u201cYou spent what?!\u201d \u201cYou did what?!\u201d \u201cWhy?\u201d \u201cI, obviously, don\u2019t make bad choices with money; what are <em>you<\/em> doing?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian:<\/strong> Because we can always justify our purchases or our spending but the other person, that\u2019s frivolous; right? We had a lot of that going on, and that was tearing our relationship, little by little.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014low-grade conflict.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Cherie: <\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>Dave, I\u2019m thinking about you as an athlete.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Am I an athlete still?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> You are.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>I like that!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>Those little nagging injuries that you go\u2014you ignore them, but they get worse every time you go to the gym, or you do something\u2014those can turn into\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Oh, they always do\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014debilitating.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u2014they have to. It\u2019s sort of what you guys said earlier\u2014you got into debt by not paying attention. You got out of debt by paying attention. You wrote it down; said, \u201cWe\u2019re going to make some hard decisions.\u201d Every athlete\/every person does the same thing: \u201cI have to take care of little things that lead to big things,\u201d\u2014<em>huge<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> If you guys had to talk right now\u2014if a young couple was sitting in front of you\u2014just give them a couple of things like, \u201cOh, if I could just implore you to do this\u2026\u201d what would you say?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> What money vow would you have them write? [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> There you go!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian:<\/strong> We do this\u2014this is a <em>big<\/em> part of what we do\u2014is that we have\/especially, engaged couples\u2014we have a heart for engaged couples. We try to walk through with them, especially, in financial matters; because no one is talking about that. When they\u2019re planning the wedding, we encourage them to use the wedding budget as their first budgeting experience together to working with money. You\u2019re not combining finances yet; but we\u2019re engaging in this exercise that will give us habits, going forward.<\/p>\n<p>I think the main thing is that marriage is not a competition; it\u2019s a collaboration. You need to be working with your spouse on money; you need to be communicating with your spouse <em>about<\/em> money; and \u201cPlease don\u2019t borrow money; you don\u2019t have to borrow.\u201d I\u2019m debt averse; so if you can get away with it\u2014because obviously, we haven\u2019t had credit cards in 11 years\u2014so you don\u2019t need to do that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> Have you got car loans?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Cherie:<\/strong> We do not. No, we haven\u2019t had a car loan since 2009.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> House still paying off?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Cherie:<\/strong> We still are working on our mortgage, but it is much less than what we\u2019ve paid off.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> Anything else other than the house?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Cherie:<\/strong> No.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> What would you say to the couple, that\u2019s coming in, and they\/one person has a lot of college debt; the other person has nothing. The one person that has nothing doesn\u2019t want to pay for that college debt or some of the\u2014<\/p>\n<p>You\u2019re already going, Brian; what do you saying?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian:<\/strong> Well, I\u2019ve got a story about this. When\u2014this is a big part, especially for our older daughter, who lived through this, and watched us, and made decisions as a very small person when it came to this. There was a Mother\u2019s Day that we were headed to the mall to buy Mother\u2019s Day gifts\u2014as every dad should take their daughter to buy Mother\u2019s Day gifts.<\/p>\n<p>We were in the car. Out of nowhere, you have these conversations with your daughter about the future, and about boys, and things like that. She said \u201cYou know Dad, if a boy wants to marry me, and he has student loans\u201d\u2014now she was eight years old at the time\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Wow!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian:<\/strong> \u2014\"if a boy wants to marry me and he has student loan debt, he\u2019s going to need to pay that off before we get married.\u201d I said, \u201cWhy\u2019s that?\u201d She said, \u201cWell, because before we get married, it\u2019s <em>his<\/em> and after we get married, it\u2019s <em>ours<\/em>.\u201d I thought, \u201cI can be done parenting now.\u201d [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Seriously! That is <em>impressive<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian:<\/strong> That\u2019s a mic-drop parenting moment at that point; but she\u2019s right. Before you get married, it\u2019s individually. But the second that you say, \u201cI do,\u201d two become one and you are married; and it is now <em>ours<\/em>, and you need to work together as if you incurred it as well.<\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave:<\/strong> One of the cool things that is in your book, as well\u2014and you\u2019ve been saying it all day\u2014is: \u201cIt\u2019s His.\u201d At the end of the day, as a married couple, it\u2019s ours; and as a married couple, with Christ as the foundation, there\u2019s that 30,000-foot perspective that says: \u201cWait a minute. It really is His, and it is a gift; and so that\u2019s why we do want to manage it and steward it well, and also be very generous with it.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I tell you this\u2014one of the life verses for me and money, because it\u2019s been a struggle as we got married\u2014I grew up in a divorced home, where before the divorce, very rich\u2014airline pilot Dad built homes and mansions in gated communities in New York. He walks out\u2014and I didn\u2019t even know this until I was mid-20s because we ended up\u2014my mom and I\/single mom move to a little town in Ohio. Why?\u2014because that\u2019s where her parents were to take care of her. I grew up <em>poor<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p>Found out later the house that we moved from\u2014that they built in the \u201860s\u2014was in the $400,000 range.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Cherie: <\/strong>Oh, wow.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>I never knew this until I\u2019m married\u2014because my brother tells me; he\u2019s 12 years older\u2014he goes, \u201cDo you know how the deal worked when mom sold the house after the divorce?\u201d \u201cNo, what are you talking about?\u201d He goes: \u201cThe deal was Dad said, \u2018Sell the house; we\u2019ll split the profit.\u2019 He\u2019s gone with his girlfriend; she sells the house for $60,000.\u201d She walks away with [$30,000] and that\u2019s what I grew up on. She <em>could<\/em> have been wealthy.<\/p>\n<p>All that to say I grew up with sort of a <em>fear<\/em> that: \u201cI\u2019m going to be poor.\u201d The verse that God gave me was Philippians 4:19\u2014which I\u2019m sure you know\u2014and I can quote it by memory, because it\u2019s ingrained in my heart: \u201cAnd my God shall supply all of your needs\u201d\u2014and again it doesn\u2019t say <em>wants<\/em> but it says needs\u2014\"according to His riches in Christ Jesus.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>As we start on our first few years of marriage\u2014we\u2019re full-time missionaries, raising support\u2014I claimed that every day. Guess what? Forty years later, I can tell you this: \u201cGod supplies your needs; he always...\u201d I could tell you story after story, and a lot of it is as you obey Him in the money principles.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> I like the idea, too, of going before God\u2014whether you\u2019ve done a great job of this or not\u2014but going before God, as a couple\u2014maybe getting on your knees and say: \u201cGod, we surrender this area to you; and we need Your help\/Your guidance. Guide us and show us what this will look like.\u201d I think your book does a great job of guiding people through that and towards Jesus.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Cherie:<\/strong> Oh, thank you; and it takes some bravery to do that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; well, you guys helped supply the courage in the book, <em>Your Money, Your Marriage<\/em>, which is a book that we\u2019ve got in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center.<\/p>\n<p>Thanks for being with us on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Good to have you guys here.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Cherie:<\/strong> Thank you so much!<\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>Brian:<\/strong> Thank you.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> And for our listeners, go to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com; we\u2019ve got copies of Brian and Cherie\u2019s books: <em>Your Money, Your Marriage<\/em> and <em>Slaying the Debt Dragon<\/em>. Again, go to FamilyLifeToday.com for more information on how you can order either or both of these books.<\/p>\n<p>We\u2019ve also got a link, Cherie, to your blog, which is called \u201cQueen of Free.\u201d So again, go to FamilyLifeToday.com to find out more about Cherie\u2019s blog or to order either <em>Your Money, Your Marriage<\/em> or <em>Slaying the Debt Dragon<\/em>. If you\u2019d like to order by phone, the number is 1-800-FL-TODAY\u20141-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>You know, a great takeaway from what we\u2019ve talked about today is that, if you <em>want<\/em> to get somewhere, you need to have a \u201cwhy\u201d for that. That\u2019s what fueled the Lowes getting out of debt\u2014is they had a vision for where they were headed.<\/p>\n<p>The president of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, David Robbins, is here with us. That\u2019s a key principle, isn\u2019t it?<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong> Yes; I <em>love<\/em> how clearly they articulate that a vision of what we hope for in the future provides the <em>fuel<\/em> for self-control in the present. Whether that\u2019s money, like they discussed; or being intentional with relationships with your kids, or facing temptations\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> or Whole30 [diet plan], right? [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong> Right\u2014[Laughter]\u2014<em>anything<\/em> that comes your way. It <em>won\u2019t<\/em> always be easy and immediate.<\/p>\n<p>In relationships with our kids, our spouse, our friends, there\u2019s an immediate temptation to avoid it\u2014to hide a lot of times or to run it over\u2014because that\u2019s easier and seems more satisfying; and in the short run, it actually <em>does<\/em> provide for you a little bit, but <em>never<\/em> in the long run. It takes <em>vision<\/em> to develop real grace- and truth-filled relationships\u2014the ones that God desires for us to have with Him, and with each other, and with our kids, and friends around us.<\/p>\n<p>It really takes self-control to step into the <em>discomfort<\/em> of conflict resolution and restoration\u2014and to take the <em>risk<\/em> to really go there\u2014because of the future vision of the type of marriage you want in the future that will fuel the self-control in the present.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> I think the question is: \u201cAre we living for today?\u201d\u2014and we all grew up being told, \u201c<em>Carpe diem<\/em>,\u201d \/ \u201cSeize the day,\u201d\u2014or \u201cAre you living for tomorrow?\u201d And it\u2019s good to live in the moment; but it\u2019s not good for the moment to be what\u2019s directing everything about your life. You\u2019ve got to have your legacy in view, don\u2019t you?<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong> Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; thank you, David.<\/p>\n<p>We hope you have a great weekend. I hope you and your family are able to worship together with your local church, in one way or another, this weekend. And we hope you can join us back on Monday when we\u2019re going to talk about <em>the<\/em> most common challenges that stepfamilies face. Ron Deal will be here to walk us through those issues and provide some very helpful biblical solutions to those challenges. I hope you can join us for that; or if you know somebody, who is in a stepfamily, invite them to tune in and listen.<\/p>\n<p>I want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.<\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>We are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?<\/p>\n<p>Copyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2020 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a><\/p>\n<p>1<\/p>\n","theme_header_position":"Sticky","post_header_is_sticky":"default","is_header_overlay":"0"},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/306210","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=306210"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=306210"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=306210"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=306210"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=306210"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=306210"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=306210"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}