{"id":306204,"date":"2020-06-24T07:00:05","date_gmt":"2020-06-24T11:00:05","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/i-have-hope\/"},"modified":"2020-06-24T07:00:05","modified_gmt":"2020-06-24T11:00:05","slug":"i-have-hope","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/i-have-hope\/","title":{"rendered":"I Have Hope"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Jeff and Sarah Walton have learned to make God&#8217;s Word central to their daily lives. Together they share how God is using their trials to build up and comfort others in the body of Christ.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2020-06-24.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:31:12","filesize":"28.56M","filesize_raw":"29951729","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2885,2860,2821],"tags":[6910],"podcast_series":[8370],"cwp_profile":[9633],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-306204","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-good-marriages-made-better","category-hardship-and-suffering","category-reaching-out","tag-life-is-hard","podcast_series-together-through-the-storms","cwp_profile-jeff-and-sarah-walton","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/306204\/i-have-hope","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/306204\/i-have-hope","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"xd5sSZIcqC\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/i-have-hope\/\">I Have Hope<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/i-have-hope\/embed\/#?secret=xd5sSZIcqC\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;I Have Hope&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"xd5sSZIcqC\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2020-06-24.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2020-06-24.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Bob: <\/strong>There\u2019s a verse in 1 Peter that talks about being grieved by various trials. It goes on to say that those trials allow for the \u201ctested genuineness of your faith, more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to result in praise, and glory, and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ.\u201d Jeff and Sarah Walton know something about having your faith tested by trials.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sarah:<\/strong> Pain is pain, and it can look at lot of different ways. We have grown so much in having the eyes to see other people, who are hurting, and to know what has hurt us when people have said unkind comments or insensitive. We\u2019re much more careful in how we say things\u2014and wanting to give people the space to be able to grieve, as well, and not just want to move them past it\u2014there\u2019s all sorts of things you learn in that, but then you want to give that to others as well.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Wednesday, June 24<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I'm Bob Lepine. You\u2019ll find us online at FamilyLifeToday.com. No one wants to go through trials; nobody likes pain, but the Bible says there\u2019s purpose in our suffering. We\u2019ll hear more about that today from Jeff and Sarah Walton. Stay with us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. Dave, you\u2019ve been around weight rooms for a few years; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Are you saying that because I\u2019m so big? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You can tell because he looks so <em>good<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> My biceps are <em>popping<\/em> out. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I know that, years ago, you actually used to lift the weights <em>yourself<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Oh, <em>years ago<\/em>; that\u2019s funny. [Laughter] That\u2019s funny. Honey, do I still lift weights?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You\u2014yes, you <em>do<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Not very heavy ones, but\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> If somebody wants to develop those strong, rippling muscles\u2014[Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Where is he going with this one? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> This isn\u2019t even funny. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014it does require that, at some point in your weight training, you have to add more weight\/more resistance for the muscles to get stronger; don\u2019t you?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; you do, Bob.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That thought came to mind in the midst of the story we\u2019re hearing this week. We\u2019ve got Jeff and Sarah Walton joining us. Guys, welcome back to <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeff and Sarah:<\/strong> Thank you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You guys have been through 16 years of weight training\u2014[Laughter]\u2014maybe a dozen years, where it\u2019s been pretty intense for you guys\u2014it\u2019s been spiritual weight training. Every time your muscles get a little stronger, the Coach comes along and says, \u201cWe\u2019re going to add a little more weight to this and see what we can develop here.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI don\u2019t presume to know the mind of God, and the providence of God, and exactly what\u2019s going on, or the purposes for that; we can drive ourselves crazy. In fact, your book, which is <em>Together Through the Storms,<\/em> is a book that takes the Book of Job in the Old Testament, and takes your circumstances and your marriage, and says, \u201cThere are some parallels here.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJob went to God at the end of the book and said, \u201cSo I think I\u2019m due some answers here.\u201d How did God respond to him, Jeff?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeff:<\/strong> He did not give him the direct answer that he wanted. From that, we can pull a tremendous amount of wisdom. God ultimately revealed Himself to Job; we see that in the end. Job wrestles\u2014throughout the whole book: \u201cWho is God?\u201d\u2014and leaning back on His promises.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think one of the biggest things that is so easy\u2014as I\u2019ve read the Book of Job prior to this\u2014it fits right in the middle of the Bible; but yet, I did not realize the full context. Job is writing this, and it could be one of the oldest written words that\u2019s in the Bible. Putting that into context, Job did not have the Bible to refer to\u2014the Old Testament. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLooking at what he was wrestling with\u2014going through the blow after blow, day after day, of the trials, and the pain, and the grief; and then wrestling through the loss; and being separated by his wife, more relationally\u2014I think, at the end, seeing him come to the fact that he demanded answers from God. Yet, God did not give him the answer in the way that he wanted; but He gave him, ultimately, more of Himself. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHow true is that of ourselves? When we go through trial after trial; we want a specific answer\/as reason to why we are suffering. Yet, if he gave us that answer, the next time a trial would come, we\u2019d want an answer for that one. Then, we\u2019d want an answer for the next one. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut unless He gives us just who He is\u2014if He can just strip away everything and say, \u201cI want you to be dependent on Me, solely\u201d\u2014end of question\u2014\u201cI want you to trust Me because I am God, and I am sovereign over all things.\u201d That should be enough for us, to find hope in a Savior like that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> It <em>was<\/em> enough for Job, who ends the book by saying: \u201cNow I have seen You. I put my hand over my mouth, and I can rest in that\u201d; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sarah:<\/strong> Yes; if you think about\u2014even as we become Christians\u2014we would say, \u201cI believe God is sovereign.\u201d But when we are faced with something that doesn\u2019t seem like God is sovereign, and we have to wrestle with that, and we choose to come to see: \u201cGod actually has been sovereign in this,\u201d\u2014then we know it in reality.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s what\u2019s happening with Job. He <em>believed<\/em> these things about God; but after all these different losses, at the end, he was then able to say, \u201cNow my eye has seen You, because I have seen these things to be true.\u201d\u00a0\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> The losses you\u2019ve experienced started kind of early on in your marriage. Your son was born, had a fever that spiked; that led to ongoing health challenges\u2014and continuing to have the same level of challenges and the same frequency that he had back, when he was one and two years old?\u2014is that right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sarah:<\/strong> Yes; it\u2019s changed somewhat in its nature. We found some medication has helped to some extent; he has done well. He\u2019s now doing well in school, which has been a gift. But it is a constant struggle for him. What\u2019s really neat is, on his tenth birthday, he gave his life to Christ. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat was really neat is\u2014how we shared there was a very clear spiritual battle over him. For a year, we had him repeat a prayer, up on the wall that Jeff had written. A lot of nights, he would either scribble it out, or he would rip it up, or he would refuse to pray it; so we would pray it over him.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeff:<\/strong> During all this, he was just denying Christ, and pushing up against all of our beliefs. I remember so many nights\u2014of being in tears and trying to fight back [tears]\u2014when I\u2019m trying to talk through things, maybe in his room. To have your son tell you that he doesn\u2019t believe in Christ tore us to pieces.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI committed to praying with him. Sometimes, it was through just me praying that; because he did not want anything to do with it; but other times, he would grit his teeth and he say, \u201cGod, if You are real\u2014and I don\u2019t believe in You, God\u2014but if You are real, will You come save me?\u201d There were some other sentences onto that\u2014of really wanting him\/probably more of my crying out as well\u2014but wanting him to see that: \u201cYou have nothing to lose; cry out to God; repent. We have a Savior that is ready to comfort and bring peace, and to bring light to where it is <em>so dark<\/em> in our house.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBy God\u2019s grace, we saw that clearly; and we\u2019ve seen the fruit come from that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> The breakthrough moment there\u2014what happened in him that caused him to go, \u201cOkay; I\u2019m ready to pray that prayer\u201d?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sarah:<\/strong> It was very clear. I was going through an episode with him, and part of what was very heartbreaking is he <em>hated<\/em> the struggle just as much as we did. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; it sounded like he was in torment.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sarah:<\/strong> It is; that is pretty much the best way you can describe it. It was like something else was tormenting him. He would either feel like our enemy, in the way he was treating us, or he would be in a heap on the floor sobbing, crying out: \u201cIf there\u2019s a God, why wouldn\u2019t He change me? God won\u2019t do anything. I\u2019ve asked Him so many times.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeff:<\/strong> There were so many days, where he had that conflicting spirit in him, where he would do something that was really, really hard\u2014whether it was verbal or physical\u2014then, later, screaming out, \u201cI don\u2019t\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sarah:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cI don\u2019t want to be this way. Help me, help me, Lord, not be this way.\u201d It\u2019s heartbreaking, as a parent.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, I would sob!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sarah:<\/strong> Oh, I did; years after years, I sobbed and sobbed. It created this tension in us, as parents, of feeling: \u201cI hate this behavior! It\u2019s so hurtful!\u201d It would <em>exhaust<\/em> us, and yet we felt heartbroken for him at the same time.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014because he hates it too.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sarah:<\/strong> Exactly. I remember this one night\u2014it was a long, long battle with him. I was in his room with him for, at least, an hour-and-a-half\/two hours. At that point, you\u2019re just physically and emotionally <em>depleted<\/em>; because it\u2019s like an all-out war. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe just fell down; I think he ended up yelling out, \u201cI want to stop, but I just can\u2019t!\u201d\u2014which is a frequent phrase of his. I said: \u201cBen, I know you do. That is why the only thing I can offer you is the Savior; because I can\u2019t make you stop, either. But I know He\u2019s powerful enough to meet you here. He is greater than this.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI had said that before, but there was something different about that night. He just fell into a heap on the floor, and he started crying. He said: \u201cI want that! I want that! I just don\u2019t know how.\u201d I talked him through what Christ has done for us, which we had talked to him about <em>so<\/em> many times. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI made it really personal for him; I was like, \u201cI know you feel\u201d\u2014deep down, he feels such shame for what he has done, and what he does do, and how he comes across, and the ways he has hurt us; he carries that. I talked to him about how Christ covers that shame, and Christ has taken that on the cross, and He offers it to him. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe ended up giving his life to Christ that night. You could just see the joy beaming on the kid\u2019s face. It was like he had just been given the best gift he could ever have. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think what\u2019s really neat for us\u2014that\u2019s been a gift from the Lord, because he still struggles neurologically\u2014there were times where I\u2019m like, \u201cHow do I believe that he\u2019s really been changed?\u2014because I still see these awful things coming out.\u201d But he never once mentioned Satan again. He, after that, has truly desired to grow in the Lord; he wants to do Bible study with my dad. He wants to serve in AWANA as a little AWANA leader. When he is in those good moments, he just thrives. Then, he comes home and struggles in an incredibly intense way.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere\u2019s that constant battle that\u2019s still going on\u2014that we cry out for freedom for him\u2014because there are many days he just doesn\u2019t want to go on in it anymore. But we, now, have this hope that we can keep pointing him to: \u201cThere is a day where this is going to end.\u201d And what a hope to have, because I can\u2019t guarantee that\u2019s going away in his lifetime.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I love your honesty, your authenticity, and your rawness in your book. And even, Jeff, you talk about learning how to lead your family. You have this honest prayer in there, like: \u201cLord, how can I lead my family when I feel so <em>weak<\/em>?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeff:<\/strong> Yes; I felt that, and I still feel that, in a tremendous way\u2014both for leading Sarah and leading my kids\u2014feel my inadequacies greatly. I think, <em>through<\/em> these trials and these storms that we have faced, God continues to strip layers away. By His grace, strip away the pride that\u2019s in me\/the self-righteous attitude that\u2019s in me, and reveal more of Himself to me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think that has been one of His greatest gifts\u2014is through all of this\u2014now, that perseverance in me\/endurance that He has truly, and still is, certainly, growing in me to lead and lay down my life in a whole fresh, new way that I wasn\u2019t doing before. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> There are three people we have not talked about yet; and they are Eliphaz, and Bildad, and Zophar. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sarah: <\/strong>Oh, those three.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeff: <\/strong>They are not our kids. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>You mean my neighbors?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeff: <\/strong>Those aren\u2019t the other three. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Those are Job\u2019s three friends in the Book of Job who, at the beginning of the book, are amazing friends to him\u2014who then turn into not-so-great friends, right? [Laughter] I\u2019m thinking about them because, for you guys to go through what you\u2019ve gone through, you have to have a network\u2014a community\/some amazing friends\u2014who have come alongside. If you\u2019ve tried to do this without that, I don\u2019t know how you make it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen did you realize: \u201cWithout community\/without people, who we can lean on, we\u2019re not going to survive this,\u201d\u2014do you remember?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sarah:<\/strong> That was probably part of another aspect of why we felt we needed to move. We were probably about 25 minutes from church, which to some people is nothing; but in a suburban community, where usually if you go to church, you live within five to ten minutes of it. We were trying to be plugged into a Bible study, but it was hard; people didn\u2019t really want to come out to us very much\u2014it was harder to travel on weekday nights\u2014things like that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe had my parents, who lived in the area, who were God\u2019s provision for us at that time, especially when he was on call; they were on my emergency call 24 hours a day. It did come to the point, where we realized how much we needed the support\u2014not just practically-speaking\u2014but we needed the support spiritually. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sarah:<\/strong> That has been such a gift. It has made things, that would otherwise be really challenging for us; it\u2019s made it really feasible. The Lord has very graciously provided a few friends, especially, who know the deepest parts of our struggle. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> As you look forward, I sense <em>hope<\/em>. Part of me is like, \u201cCan that be <em>real<\/em>?\u201d How do you find hope?\u2014because hope is visceral. You can lay in bed without hope, and you don\u2019t want to get up. And if you have hope, it can drive you\/motivate you. Do you have hope? And if you do, where does it come from?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeff:<\/strong> I think the biggest thing for me is that hope is not something that I can just find on one day and allow that to carry me through this life. For me, and I know for Sarah as well, the biggest thing that we can do is start our day in the Word\u2014and not let it just be a one-time morning and then close the book\u2014but \u201cWhat does that look like of trying to carry that out through our day and being more intentional in our prayer life?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNot that we are certainly perfect on any of those fronts\u2014but wanting God\u2019s Word to be what is central to our life and our marriage. It is a daily being brought back to His truths and remembering. And then, reflecting in our own marriage\u2014remembering His faithfulness\u2014so when we do face the next storm, recalling to our mind how He brought us through the last one. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe don\u2019t have all the answers; but yet we know He is faithful, and He is good. Through that, if we can walk with that endurance and that persevering spirit\u2014it\u2019s only by His grace that we are here today and still somewhat liking each other\u2014right? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sarah:<\/strong> Usually. I\u2019m going to actually\u2014what you just said is in the Bible; it\u2019s in \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRomans 5.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Gee whiz! Look what I just pulled up on my\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Is that what you pulled up?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sarah:<\/strong> Yes; that\u2019s one of the pinnacle verses that have been for me, that: \u201c\u2026through Him we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand. We rejoice in the hope of the glory of God. Not only that, but we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character, and character produces hope. And hope does not put us to shame because God\u2019s love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s really been a very clear picture of what the path has looked like. It has been one storm after another, but we can see how God has grown our endurance through each one. Now, we respond differently to each one when they come. The hope comes from the endurance; then we see the character of Christ growing in us. That is what fuels that hope, is that we see that He is active and alive in us, which means He\u2019s doing something through this. We don\u2019t have to know the end of the story.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> How is your marriage better today than it was five years ago?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sarah:<\/strong> It\u2019s <em>totally<\/em> different. I would say we got along with each other; but we had to be surface, because it was all we could handle. The Lord took us through quite a tornado\u2014I don\u2019t know: maybe a couple years ago or a little less than that\u2014where He allowed all those feelings to surface and things to come to the surface that we had pushed to the side for too long. That was probably the lowest point in our marriage, that we didn\u2019t know if we could go on from that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat I remember very clearly is I had a strong desire for Jeff to be able to know and understand what I had been going through. I kept trying to explain it to him in so many different ways; it never got anywhere. The Lord finally brought me to the point\u2014we have a chapter in the book that says, \u201cYou Can\u2019t Change Your Spouse\u2019s Heart\u201d\u2014that, I think, to me, has been the most pinnacle realization in our marriage. As soon as we start looking to each other to think the other person\u2019s the solution to our problem, we always go nowhere good.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sarah:<\/strong> As soon as we turn our eyes to Christ and His Word, which is what we started doing, we realized, \u201cWe are not going anywhere good by trying to change each other or convince each other to see our position here.\u201d I started going to the Word and praying honestly: \u201cLord, I feel like I need Jeff to see these things. To me, it seems like it would help if he could understand and enter into this. But I have to trust that You know what he needs to see more than I need to. I need to fix my eyes on You more than I need to fix them on him.\u201d He started doing the same thing. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAll of a sudden, our conversations became just a little more fruitful. They weren\u2019t easy; we had to go through <em>really<\/em> hard conversations and deal with some really, really challenging things. But we started to grow trust in our relationship again. We started to see the other person, not trying to change us, but seeing that they honestly wanted to grow themselves, which pulls you together\/draws you to each other. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat increased, and there was some really awesome things that God did. It was like He just blew walls down in an amazingly short time for something of the things we had going on for a really long time. It was really His grace. He started to restore our trust in our relationship. He started to teach us to communicate better about things that we didn\u2019t want to have to tell each other. It affected <em>all<\/em> parts of our marriage\u2014intimacy, obviously, was a hard part, too\u2014that began to grow in the trust area. That was a really sweet, clear evidence of God holding on to us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe doesn\u2019t want us to stay just surviving; He wants to grow us. He wants us to be in a place, where we are thriving <em>in Him<\/em>. We can\u2019t thrive in our marriage unless we\u2019re thriving in Christ. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> What you described\u2014around here, we call that \u201cgoing vertical\u201d\u2014isn\u2019t that what we call it?\u2014right? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I hope so!\u2014vertical marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>That was\/I mean, as you were saying that, yes; that is a beautiful description of what it means\u2014\u201cI\u2019m not going to find life from my spouse,\u201d\u2014although, that\u2019s good\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sarah:<\/strong> Yes, it\u2019s a gift!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014I can find good things\u2014\u201cBut I can only find real life from Christ.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m not kidding\u2014sitting here, listening to you, [and] reading your book\u2014you model that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You\u2019re inspiring. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sarah and Jeff:<\/strong> Thank you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It should give other families and couples\u2014and even single people that are going through a storm\u2014hope.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I\u2019ve got to squeeze this in\u2014because when you asked about hope\u2014and you guys both went to Romans 5\u2014I went somewhere else; I went to Lamentations 3. I have to read it; it says: \u201cThis I call to mind; therefore, I have hope,\u201d\u2014so what do you call to mind when you don\u2019t have hope?\u2014\u201cThe steadfast love of the Lord never ceases. His mercies never come to an end. They are new every morning. Great is Your faithfulness. \u2018The Lord is my portion,\u2019 says my soul; therefore, I will hope in Him.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou guys are a <em>great<\/em> illustration of that. Your book is so helpful in that regard. We\u2019ve got copies of your book in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. Thank you for being here, and for sharing your story, and bringing us in on the inside of it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sarah:<\/strong> Thank you so much. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeff:<\/strong> Thanks for having us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I want to bring in David Robbins, the president of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, who has been listening in on our conversation this week as we\u2019ve been talking about the challenges you guys have gone through. I think a lot of our listeners were probably nodding their head, thinking: \u201cWe\u2019ve had our own challenges. Our marriage has been through storms, and that can be discouraging.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> Yes. It is a normal part of life on this side of heaven. At minimum, the challenges are an invitation from God to trust Him and know Him more intimately. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019ve been listening to Jeff and Sarah\u2019s story. It\u2019s been surfacing for me the value of learning how to lament well. It reminds me of another conversation we had on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> with Steve Argue, when he said, \u201cThe enemy of faith is not doubt; it\u2019s silence.\u201d Difficult life situations and circumstances can introduce doubt about God\u2019s goodness and His power. That\u2019s not always a problem. The problem is when we don\u2019t process those doubts, and we just try to stuff them and ignore them. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tA third of the Psalms are psalms of lament. Lament is expressing raw and honest prayers to our sovereign and compassionate Abba Father. It\u2019s a form of worship that I\u2019m grateful Jeff and Sarah have modeled really well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Thank you, David; that\u2019s helpful. I hope our listeners will get a copy of Jeff and Sarah\u2019s book, <em>Together Through the Storms<\/em>. It\u2019s a book we\u2019re making available this week to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners. We think this is such a helpful book; we want to provide it to anybody who can make a donation to help with the ongoing support of this radio program and all that we do, here at FamilyLife. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYour donation provides the funding for syndicating and producing this program, our website, our resources\u2014all that we do\u2014you make possible every time you make a donation to keep <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> healthy and strong. We appreciate those of you who have donated in the past. Those of you who are monthly Legacy Partners\u2014thank you for your support. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you can help with a donation today, request your copy of Jeff and Sarah Walton\u2019s book, <em>Together Through the Storms.<\/em> It\u2019s our thank-you gift to you in return for your donation. You can donate, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can call to donate: 1-800-FL-TODAY is the number\u20141-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d Thanks, in advance, for your support. We appreciate you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow, we\u2019re going to introduce you to a couple who were deep in debt\u2014I mean, deep in debit with no clear path out\u2014and yet they found a path. They decided to take the debt issue seriously. We\u2019ll introduce you to Brian and Cherie Lowe, and they\u2019ll share their story with you tomorrow. I hope you can tune in for that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2020 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:31:12"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["28.56M"],"filesize_raw":["29951729"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-306204.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-306204.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom 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and Sarah Walton have learned to make God's Word central to their daily lives. Together they share how God is using their trials to build up and comfort others in the body of Christ.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2020-06-24.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>There\u2019s a verse in 1 Peter that talks about being grieved by various trials. It goes on to say that those trials allow for the \u201ctested genuineness of your faith, more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to result in praise, and glory, and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ.\u201d Jeff and Sarah Walton know something about having your faith tested by trials.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sarah:<\/strong> Pain is pain, and it can look at lot of different ways. We have grown so much in having the eyes to see other people, who are hurting, and to know what has hurt us when people have said unkind comments or insensitive. We\u2019re much more careful in how we say things\u2014and wanting to give people the space to be able to grieve, as well, and not just want to move them past it\u2014there\u2019s all sorts of things you learn in that, but then you want to give that to others as well.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Wednesday, June 24<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I'm Bob Lepine. You\u2019ll find us online at FamilyLifeToday.com. No one wants to go through trials; nobody likes pain, but the Bible says there\u2019s purpose in our suffering. We\u2019ll hear more about that today from Jeff and Sarah Walton. Stay with us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. Dave, you\u2019ve been around weight rooms for a few years; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Are you saying that because I\u2019m so big? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You can tell because he looks so <em>good<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> My biceps are <em>popping<\/em> out. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I know that, years ago, you actually used to lift the weights <em>yourself<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Oh, <em>years ago<\/em>; that\u2019s funny. [Laughter] That\u2019s funny. Honey, do I still lift weights?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You\u2014yes, you <em>do<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Not very heavy ones, but\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> If somebody wants to develop those strong, rippling muscles\u2014[Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Where is he going with this one? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> This isn\u2019t even funny. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014it does require that, at some point in your weight training, you have to add more weight\/more resistance for the muscles to get stronger; don\u2019t you?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; you do, Bob.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That thought came to mind in the midst of the story we\u2019re hearing this week. We\u2019ve got Jeff and Sarah Walton joining us. Guys, welcome back to <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeff and Sarah:<\/strong> Thank you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You guys have been through 16 years of weight training\u2014[Laughter]\u2014maybe a dozen years, where it\u2019s been pretty intense for you guys\u2014it\u2019s been spiritual weight training. Every time your muscles get a little stronger, the Coach comes along and says, \u201cWe\u2019re going to add a little more weight to this and see what we can develop here.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI don\u2019t presume to know the mind of God, and the providence of God, and exactly what\u2019s going on, or the purposes for that; we can drive ourselves crazy. In fact, your book, which is <em>Together Through the Storms,<\/em> is a book that takes the Book of Job in the Old Testament, and takes your circumstances and your marriage, and says, \u201cThere are some parallels here.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tJob went to God at the end of the book and said, \u201cSo I think I\u2019m due some answers here.\u201d How did God respond to him, Jeff?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeff:<\/strong> He did not give him the direct answer that he wanted. From that, we can pull a tremendous amount of wisdom. God ultimately revealed Himself to Job; we see that in the end. Job wrestles\u2014throughout the whole book: \u201cWho is God?\u201d\u2014and leaning back on His promises.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think one of the biggest things that is so easy\u2014as I\u2019ve read the Book of Job prior to this\u2014it fits right in the middle of the Bible; but yet, I did not realize the full context. Job is writing this, and it could be one of the oldest written words that\u2019s in the Bible. Putting that into context, Job did not have the Bible to refer to\u2014the Old Testament. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLooking at what he was wrestling with\u2014going through the blow after blow, day after day, of the trials, and the pain, and the grief; and then wrestling through the loss; and being separated by his wife, more relationally\u2014I think, at the end, seeing him come to the fact that he demanded answers from God. Yet, God did not give him the answer in the way that he wanted; but He gave him, ultimately, more of Himself. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHow true is that of ourselves? When we go through trial after trial; we want a specific answer\/as reason to why we are suffering. Yet, if he gave us that answer, the next time a trial would come, we\u2019d want an answer for that one. Then, we\u2019d want an answer for the next one. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut unless He gives us just who He is\u2014if He can just strip away everything and say, \u201cI want you to be dependent on Me, solely\u201d\u2014end of question\u2014\u201cI want you to trust Me because I am God, and I am sovereign over all things.\u201d That should be enough for us, to find hope in a Savior like that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> It <em>was<\/em> enough for Job, who ends the book by saying: \u201cNow I have seen You. I put my hand over my mouth, and I can rest in that\u201d; right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sarah:<\/strong> Yes; if you think about\u2014even as we become Christians\u2014we would say, \u201cI believe God is sovereign.\u201d But when we are faced with something that doesn\u2019t seem like God is sovereign, and we have to wrestle with that, and we choose to come to see: \u201cGod actually has been sovereign in this,\u201d\u2014then we know it in reality.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s what\u2019s happening with Job. He <em>believed<\/em> these things about God; but after all these different losses, at the end, he was then able to say, \u201cNow my eye has seen You, because I have seen these things to be true.\u201d\u00a0\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> The losses you\u2019ve experienced started kind of early on in your marriage. Your son was born, had a fever that spiked; that led to ongoing health challenges\u2014and continuing to have the same level of challenges and the same frequency that he had back, when he was one and two years old?\u2014is that right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sarah:<\/strong> Yes; it\u2019s changed somewhat in its nature. We found some medication has helped to some extent; he has done well. He\u2019s now doing well in school, which has been a gift. But it is a constant struggle for him. What\u2019s really neat is, on his tenth birthday, he gave his life to Christ. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat was really neat is\u2014how we shared there was a very clear spiritual battle over him. For a year, we had him repeat a prayer, up on the wall that Jeff had written. A lot of nights, he would either scribble it out, or he would rip it up, or he would refuse to pray it; so we would pray it over him.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeff:<\/strong> During all this, he was just denying Christ, and pushing up against all of our beliefs. I remember so many nights\u2014of being in tears and trying to fight back [tears]\u2014when I\u2019m trying to talk through things, maybe in his room. To have your son tell you that he doesn\u2019t believe in Christ tore us to pieces.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI committed to praying with him. Sometimes, it was through just me praying that; because he did not want anything to do with it; but other times, he would grit his teeth and he say, \u201cGod, if You are real\u2014and I don\u2019t believe in You, God\u2014but if You are real, will You come save me?\u201d There were some other sentences onto that\u2014of really wanting him\/probably more of my crying out as well\u2014but wanting him to see that: \u201cYou have nothing to lose; cry out to God; repent. We have a Savior that is ready to comfort and bring peace, and to bring light to where it is <em>so dark<\/em> in our house.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBy God\u2019s grace, we saw that clearly; and we\u2019ve seen the fruit come from that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> The breakthrough moment there\u2014what happened in him that caused him to go, \u201cOkay; I\u2019m ready to pray that prayer\u201d?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sarah:<\/strong> It was very clear. I was going through an episode with him, and part of what was very heartbreaking is he <em>hated<\/em> the struggle just as much as we did. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; it sounded like he was in torment.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sarah:<\/strong> It is; that is pretty much the best way you can describe it. It was like something else was tormenting him. He would either feel like our enemy, in the way he was treating us, or he would be in a heap on the floor sobbing, crying out: \u201cIf there\u2019s a God, why wouldn\u2019t He change me? God won\u2019t do anything. I\u2019ve asked Him so many times.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeff:<\/strong> There were so many days, where he had that conflicting spirit in him, where he would do something that was really, really hard\u2014whether it was verbal or physical\u2014then, later, screaming out, \u201cI don\u2019t\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sarah:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cI don\u2019t want to be this way. Help me, help me, Lord, not be this way.\u201d It\u2019s heartbreaking, as a parent.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, I would sob!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sarah:<\/strong> Oh, I did; years after years, I sobbed and sobbed. It created this tension in us, as parents, of feeling: \u201cI hate this behavior! It\u2019s so hurtful!\u201d It would <em>exhaust<\/em> us, and yet we felt heartbroken for him at the same time.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014because he hates it too.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sarah:<\/strong> Exactly. I remember this one night\u2014it was a long, long battle with him. I was in his room with him for, at least, an hour-and-a-half\/two hours. At that point, you\u2019re just physically and emotionally <em>depleted<\/em>; because it\u2019s like an all-out war. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe just fell down; I think he ended up yelling out, \u201cI want to stop, but I just can\u2019t!\u201d\u2014which is a frequent phrase of his. I said: \u201cBen, I know you do. That is why the only thing I can offer you is the Savior; because I can\u2019t make you stop, either. But I know He\u2019s powerful enough to meet you here. He is greater than this.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI had said that before, but there was something different about that night. He just fell into a heap on the floor, and he started crying. He said: \u201cI want that! I want that! I just don\u2019t know how.\u201d I talked him through what Christ has done for us, which we had talked to him about <em>so<\/em> many times. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI made it really personal for him; I was like, \u201cI know you feel\u201d\u2014deep down, he feels such shame for what he has done, and what he does do, and how he comes across, and the ways he has hurt us; he carries that. I talked to him about how Christ covers that shame, and Christ has taken that on the cross, and He offers it to him. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe ended up giving his life to Christ that night. You could just see the joy beaming on the kid\u2019s face. It was like he had just been given the best gift he could ever have. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think what\u2019s really neat for us\u2014that\u2019s been a gift from the Lord, because he still struggles neurologically\u2014there were times where I\u2019m like, \u201cHow do I believe that he\u2019s really been changed?\u2014because I still see these awful things coming out.\u201d But he never once mentioned Satan again. He, after that, has truly desired to grow in the Lord; he wants to do Bible study with my dad. He wants to serve in AWANA as a little AWANA leader. When he is in those good moments, he just thrives. Then, he comes home and struggles in an incredibly intense way.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere\u2019s that constant battle that\u2019s still going on\u2014that we cry out for freedom for him\u2014because there are many days he just doesn\u2019t want to go on in it anymore. But we, now, have this hope that we can keep pointing him to: \u201cThere is a day where this is going to end.\u201d And what a hope to have, because I can\u2019t guarantee that\u2019s going away in his lifetime.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I love your honesty, your authenticity, and your rawness in your book. And even, Jeff, you talk about learning how to lead your family. You have this honest prayer in there, like: \u201cLord, how can I lead my family when I feel so <em>weak<\/em>?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeff:<\/strong> Yes; I felt that, and I still feel that, in a tremendous way\u2014both for leading Sarah and leading my kids\u2014feel my inadequacies greatly. I think, <em>through<\/em> these trials and these storms that we have faced, God continues to strip layers away. By His grace, strip away the pride that\u2019s in me\/the self-righteous attitude that\u2019s in me, and reveal more of Himself to me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think that has been one of His greatest gifts\u2014is through all of this\u2014now, that perseverance in me\/endurance that He has truly, and still is, certainly, growing in me to lead and lay down my life in a whole fresh, new way that I wasn\u2019t doing before. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> There are three people we have not talked about yet; and they are Eliphaz, and Bildad, and Zophar. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sarah: <\/strong>Oh, those three.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeff: <\/strong>They are not our kids. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>You mean my neighbors?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeff: <\/strong>Those aren\u2019t the other three. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Those are Job\u2019s three friends in the Book of Job who, at the beginning of the book, are amazing friends to him\u2014who then turn into not-so-great friends, right? [Laughter] I\u2019m thinking about them because, for you guys to go through what you\u2019ve gone through, you have to have a network\u2014a community\/some amazing friends\u2014who have come alongside. If you\u2019ve tried to do this without that, I don\u2019t know how you make it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen did you realize: \u201cWithout community\/without people, who we can lean on, we\u2019re not going to survive this,\u201d\u2014do you remember?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sarah:<\/strong> That was probably part of another aspect of why we felt we needed to move. We were probably about 25 minutes from church, which to some people is nothing; but in a suburban community, where usually if you go to church, you live within five to ten minutes of it. We were trying to be plugged into a Bible study, but it was hard; people didn\u2019t really want to come out to us very much\u2014it was harder to travel on weekday nights\u2014things like that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe had my parents, who lived in the area, who were God\u2019s provision for us at that time, especially when he was on call; they were on my emergency call 24 hours a day. It did come to the point, where we realized how much we needed the support\u2014not just practically-speaking\u2014but we needed the support spiritually. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sarah:<\/strong> That has been such a gift. It has made things, that would otherwise be really challenging for us; it\u2019s made it really feasible. The Lord has very graciously provided a few friends, especially, who know the deepest parts of our struggle. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> As you look forward, I sense <em>hope<\/em>. Part of me is like, \u201cCan that be <em>real<\/em>?\u201d How do you find hope?\u2014because hope is visceral. You can lay in bed without hope, and you don\u2019t want to get up. And if you have hope, it can drive you\/motivate you. Do you have hope? And if you do, where does it come from?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeff:<\/strong> I think the biggest thing for me is that hope is not something that I can just find on one day and allow that to carry me through this life. For me, and I know for Sarah as well, the biggest thing that we can do is start our day in the Word\u2014and not let it just be a one-time morning and then close the book\u2014but \u201cWhat does that look like of trying to carry that out through our day and being more intentional in our prayer life?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNot that we are certainly perfect on any of those fronts\u2014but wanting God\u2019s Word to be what is central to our life and our marriage. It is a daily being brought back to His truths and remembering. And then, reflecting in our own marriage\u2014remembering His faithfulness\u2014so when we do face the next storm, recalling to our mind how He brought us through the last one. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe don\u2019t have all the answers; but yet we know He is faithful, and He is good. Through that, if we can walk with that endurance and that persevering spirit\u2014it\u2019s only by His grace that we are here today and still somewhat liking each other\u2014right? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sarah:<\/strong> Usually. I\u2019m going to actually\u2014what you just said is in the Bible; it\u2019s in \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRomans 5.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Gee whiz! Look what I just pulled up on my\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Is that what you pulled up?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sarah:<\/strong> Yes; that\u2019s one of the pinnacle verses that have been for me, that: \u201c\u2026through Him we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand. We rejoice in the hope of the glory of God. Not only that, but we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character, and character produces hope. And hope does not put us to shame because God\u2019s love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s really been a very clear picture of what the path has looked like. It has been one storm after another, but we can see how God has grown our endurance through each one. Now, we respond differently to each one when they come. The hope comes from the endurance; then we see the character of Christ growing in us. That is what fuels that hope, is that we see that He is active and alive in us, which means He\u2019s doing something through this. We don\u2019t have to know the end of the story.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> How is your marriage better today than it was five years ago?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sarah:<\/strong> It\u2019s <em>totally<\/em> different. I would say we got along with each other; but we had to be surface, because it was all we could handle. The Lord took us through quite a tornado\u2014I don\u2019t know: maybe a couple years ago or a little less than that\u2014where He allowed all those feelings to surface and things to come to the surface that we had pushed to the side for too long. That was probably the lowest point in our marriage, that we didn\u2019t know if we could go on from that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat I remember very clearly is I had a strong desire for Jeff to be able to know and understand what I had been going through. I kept trying to explain it to him in so many different ways; it never got anywhere. The Lord finally brought me to the point\u2014we have a chapter in the book that says, \u201cYou Can\u2019t Change Your Spouse\u2019s Heart\u201d\u2014that, I think, to me, has been the most pinnacle realization in our marriage. As soon as we start looking to each other to think the other person\u2019s the solution to our problem, we always go nowhere good.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sarah:<\/strong> As soon as we turn our eyes to Christ and His Word, which is what we started doing, we realized, \u201cWe are not going anywhere good by trying to change each other or convince each other to see our position here.\u201d I started going to the Word and praying honestly: \u201cLord, I feel like I need Jeff to see these things. To me, it seems like it would help if he could understand and enter into this. But I have to trust that You know what he needs to see more than I need to. I need to fix my eyes on You more than I need to fix them on him.\u201d He started doing the same thing. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAll of a sudden, our conversations became just a little more fruitful. They weren\u2019t easy; we had to go through <em>really<\/em> hard conversations and deal with some really, really challenging things. But we started to grow trust in our relationship again. We started to see the other person, not trying to change us, but seeing that they honestly wanted to grow themselves, which pulls you together\/draws you to each other. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat increased, and there was some really awesome things that God did. It was like He just blew walls down in an amazingly short time for something of the things we had going on for a really long time. It was really His grace. He started to restore our trust in our relationship. He started to teach us to communicate better about things that we didn\u2019t want to have to tell each other. It affected <em>all<\/em> parts of our marriage\u2014intimacy, obviously, was a hard part, too\u2014that began to grow in the trust area. That was a really sweet, clear evidence of God holding on to us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe doesn\u2019t want us to stay just surviving; He wants to grow us. He wants us to be in a place, where we are thriving <em>in Him<\/em>. We can\u2019t thrive in our marriage unless we\u2019re thriving in Christ. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> What you described\u2014around here, we call that \u201cgoing vertical\u201d\u2014isn\u2019t that what we call it?\u2014right? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I hope so!\u2014vertical marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>That was\/I mean, as you were saying that, yes; that is a beautiful description of what it means\u2014\u201cI\u2019m not going to find life from my spouse,\u201d\u2014although, that\u2019s good\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sarah:<\/strong> Yes, it\u2019s a gift!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014I can find good things\u2014\u201cBut I can only find real life from Christ.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m not kidding\u2014sitting here, listening to you, [and] reading your book\u2014you model that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> You\u2019re inspiring. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sarah and Jeff:<\/strong> Thank you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It should give other families and couples\u2014and even single people that are going through a storm\u2014hope.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I\u2019ve got to squeeze this in\u2014because when you asked about hope\u2014and you guys both went to Romans 5\u2014I went somewhere else; I went to Lamentations 3. I have to read it; it says: \u201cThis I call to mind; therefore, I have hope,\u201d\u2014so what do you call to mind when you don\u2019t have hope?\u2014\u201cThe steadfast love of the Lord never ceases. His mercies never come to an end. They are new every morning. Great is Your faithfulness. \u2018The Lord is my portion,\u2019 says my soul; therefore, I will hope in Him.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou guys are a <em>great<\/em> illustration of that. Your book is so helpful in that regard. We\u2019ve got copies of your book in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. Thank you for being here, and for sharing your story, and bringing us in on the inside of it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Sarah:<\/strong> Thank you so much. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Jeff:<\/strong> Thanks for having us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I want to bring in David Robbins, the president of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, who has been listening in on our conversation this week as we\u2019ve been talking about the challenges you guys have gone through. I think a lot of our listeners were probably nodding their head, thinking: \u201cWe\u2019ve had our own challenges. Our marriage has been through storms, and that can be discouraging.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> Yes. It is a normal part of life on this side of heaven. At minimum, the challenges are an invitation from God to trust Him and know Him more intimately. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019ve been listening to Jeff and Sarah\u2019s story. It\u2019s been surfacing for me the value of learning how to lament well. It reminds me of another conversation we had on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> with Steve Argue, when he said, \u201cThe enemy of faith is not doubt; it\u2019s silence.\u201d Difficult life situations and circumstances can introduce doubt about God\u2019s goodness and His power. That\u2019s not always a problem. The problem is when we don\u2019t process those doubts, and we just try to stuff them and ignore them. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tA third of the Psalms are psalms of lament. Lament is expressing raw and honest prayers to our sovereign and compassionate Abba Father. It\u2019s a form of worship that I\u2019m grateful Jeff and Sarah have modeled really well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Thank you, David; that\u2019s helpful. I hope our listeners will get a copy of Jeff and Sarah\u2019s book, <em>Together Through the Storms<\/em>. It\u2019s a book we\u2019re making available this week to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners. We think this is such a helpful book; we want to provide it to anybody who can make a donation to help with the ongoing support of this radio program and all that we do, here at FamilyLife. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYour donation provides the funding for syndicating and producing this program, our website, our resources\u2014all that we do\u2014you make possible every time you make a donation to keep <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> healthy and strong. We appreciate those of you who have donated in the past. Those of you who are monthly Legacy Partners\u2014thank you for your support. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you can help with a donation today, request your copy of Jeff and Sarah Walton\u2019s book, <em>Together Through the Storms.<\/em> It\u2019s our thank-you gift to you in return for your donation. You can donate, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can call to donate: 1-800-FL-TODAY is the number\u20141-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d Thanks, in advance, for your support. We appreciate you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, tomorrow, we\u2019re going to introduce you to a couple who were deep in debt\u2014I mean, deep in debit with no clear path out\u2014and yet they found a path. They decided to take the debt issue seriously. We\u2019ll introduce you to Brian and Cherie Lowe, and they\u2019ll share their story with you tomorrow. I hope you can tune in for that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2020 FamilyLife. 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