{"id":306088,"date":"2020-06-10T07:00:05","date_gmt":"2020-06-10T11:00:05","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/healing-from-abuse\/"},"modified":"2024-10-08T10:27:47","modified_gmt":"2024-10-08T14:27:47","slug":"healing-from-abuse","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/healing-from-abuse\/","title":{"rendered":"Healing from Abuse"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>Bill and Pamela Ronzheimer talk about the journey they took to find healing for their marriage as they dealt with Pamela&#8217;s past sexual abuse. Looking back, they realize that as they became more transparent about Pam&#8217;s abuse with others, something began to change. Bill realized that his pride had kept him from loving Pamela well. Supported by their church&#8217;s love and prayers, they both sought counseling. Hear them share why they&#8217;d never go back to the marriage they had before.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Bill and Pamela Ronzheimer talk about the journey they took to find healing for their marriage as they dealt with Pamela&#8217;s past sexual abuse. They share why they&#8217;d never go back to the marriage they had before.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"audio","audio_file":"https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2020-06-10.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:30:25","filesize":"27.86M","filesize_raw":"29208271","date_recorded":"2020-06-10 07:00:05","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2860,2873],"tags":[4374],"podcast_series":[8366],"cwp_profile":[9629],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-306088","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-hardship-and-suffering","category-mental-and-emotional-issues","tag-sexual-abuse","podcast_series-help-my-wife-is-a-survivor-of-sexual-abuse","cwp_profile-bill-and-pamela-ronzheimer","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/306088\/healing-from-abuse","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/306088\/healing-from-abuse","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"uSSayQlIbt\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/healing-from-abuse\/\">Healing from Abuse<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/healing-from-abuse\/embed\/#?secret=uSSayQlIbt\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Healing from Abuse&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"uSSayQlIbt\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2020-06-10.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2020-06-10.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>When a man and woman marry, the two become one; and that means that, in some way, the traumas of our past become a part of our shared experience as a couple. That\u2019s what Bill Ronzheimer experienced when his wife shared with him about her childhood sexual abuse, and they began a process that led to a deep healing in both of their lives. Bill says that can be a reality for any couple.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bill: <\/strong>God is going to take you on a journey. You\u2019re going to learn more about your wife than you ever knew; but more importantly, you\u2019re going to learn more about <em>yourself<\/em> and more about <em>God<\/em> than you ever knew before. He\u2019s going to teach you some things that He would never be able to teach you otherwise. He\u2019s going to test you; but out of this, He\u2019s going to develop something that <em>can be<\/em> really rich for your marriage.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Wednesday, June 10<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I'm Bob Lepine. You\u2019ll find us online at FamilyLifeToday.com. Sometimes there are events from our past that we\u2019d rather just ignore: wall them off and try to forget about them. Bill Ronzheimer says, when you go down a painful path, you\u2019ll find it leads to deep joy. We\u2019ll talk more about that today. Stay with us.<\/p>\n<p>And welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. We\u2019ve been talking this week about a tragic and maybe a <em>hidden<\/em> story\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>Very important to talk about.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014the issue of sexual abuse. You were saying you feel like the enemy is at work trying to keep this in the dark.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>I do. I get pretty passionate when I hear stories\u2014even when my sister brought her abuse out and shared it with my mom and my grandmother, their response\u2014and they didn\u2019t know\/they didn\u2019t know how to respond\u2014but their response was a shaming response of, \u201cWell, you better not do this again.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>Wow.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>In other words, saying it was <em>her<\/em> fault.<\/p>\n<p>When I shared my story for the first time publicly, a woman came up to me and she said, \u201cYou glorified <em>Satan<\/em> today.\u201d I thought: \u201cThat\u2019s the last thing I want to do! I want to bring this to the light so people can be set free!\u201d Then I was plagued with: \u201cDid I glorify Satan? Should I not have shared my story?\u201d I do think that Satan is on the warpath to keep this in the darkness, because he can work in the darkness.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, we\u2019re trying to bring it appropriately to the light as we\u2019re talking about it this week, and we have some friends who are helping us. Bill and Pamela Ronzheimer are joining us again. Welcome back, guys.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bill: <\/strong>Thank you; great to be here again.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Pamela: <\/strong>Thank you.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is a part of your story that you have brought to the light, and we\u2019ve shared this week how you experienced sexual abuse when you were in elementary school at the hands of a [principal]. You shared it with your parents and with friends, but they didn\u2019t know what to do with that. You thought, \u201cOkay, I just will keep it compartmentalized,\u201d\u2014never told your boyfriend, who became your husband.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Pamela: <\/strong>Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>It was ten years into your marriage\u2014and Bill, you\u2019re a pastor; you have two kids\u2014ten years into your marriage and this comes out at a pastor\u2019s retreat. You still weren\u2019t sure what to do with that or how to process it. Eight years later, you\u2019re starting to have an emotional breakdown, Pamela. You wind up in the psych ward of a hospital. Clearly, this scar\/this\u2014and as you said earlier, it\u2019s not really a scar; it\u2019s an infection that\u2019s still in your soul\u2014this is when it begins to be dealt with.<\/p>\n<p>Bill, you said you were starting to realize, \u201cShe\u2019s not the only one who has stuff that needs to be dealt with.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bill: <\/strong>Correct.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>God\u2019s starting to take <em>you<\/em> to the woodshed and say, \u201cWe have some issues here that you\u2014as a pastor, as a husband, as a follower of Christ\u2014things you need to repent of\/things you need to address.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bill: <\/strong>Yes; you know, we all know how, in marriage, there\u2019s a complimentary relationship between husband and wife. Well, our dysfunctions can be complimentary as well. For areas, where life is a bit distorted\u2014for Pamela, for example, in what sexuality is because of having been abused\u2014well, my life was distorted as well in many of my perceptions of: what it is to be the head of the home; what it is to be pure. In regard to human sexuality, there was distortion that was there for me; so, right, God needed to work in <em>my<\/em> life. I was enjoying being <em>king<\/em>. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Pamela: <\/strong>And I was his little <em>queen<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bill: <\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>And all of a sudden, the queen\u2019s coming in and saying, \u201cWe have some things to talk about,\u201d and you\u2019re going, \u201cWait! What\u2019s happening?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bill: <\/strong>She didn\u2019t even need to say that. I tell you\u2014by this time, the Holy Spirit is <em>shouting<\/em> at me. God has a way of just grabbing our lives; and He may be shaking us, but He\u2019s doing it with pretty loving arms.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>Pamela, we talked about the fact that the healing from this was a matter of <em>years<\/em> of counseling and therapy. Why does it take years?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Pamela: <\/strong>Yes; because our psyche is so damaged. As physicians, in the last ten years have been able to map brain activity, that explains a lot of why it takes so long.<\/p>\n<p>For me, I would say, by the end of four years, I was teaching a women\u2019s study again\/doing some things. I would go two or three years, feeling really good, and then\u2014I looked at my life sort of like an onion; God would peel back that crusty, crinkly stuff of pain, and then I would feel really better; I would think, \u201cOh, good, the healing is complete,\u201d\u2014then, in His love, He would just peel back a little more; and it would hurt, and it would be hard, and it would trigger.<\/p>\n<p>When we talked about that first 18 years being our normal marriage, oh my goodness; it\u2019s <em>so much<\/em> better now. During that interim time from\u2014we look at life as \u201cbefore 1991\u201d and \u201cafter 1991\u201d\u2014there was a period after 1991, where our intimacy was completely destroyed. Everything that had been joyful for me suddenly became disgusting; my own body became disgusting, similar to when I had been a little girl.<\/p>\n<p>I really do believe that Satan used people that blamed me for the problem to just further embed lies that had already begun with the abuse. Then\u2014as I was able to just say: \u201cWell, now, I know what truth really is; God\u2019s Word is true,\u201d\u2014Satan\u2019s voice got quieter and quieter. Now, he\u2019s like background noise. I would just encourage you, if you are like me, the fight is <em>so<\/em> worth it. There is never a day, where I think, \u201cOh, I would have been better not to fight.\u201d It\u2019s a joy to live now.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yet, when you were in that fight\u2014and really, it was both\u2014it was a oneness fight together, right?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Pamela: <\/strong>It was.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>I\u2019m thinking: \u201cBill, you\u2019re a pastor. Pamela, you\u2019re at home; you\u2019re struggling\/your panic attacks\u2014I mean, you just described all of that.\u201d I\u2019m thinking: \u201cHow did you [Bill] do ministry? Where was your walk with God during that, where you were able to overflow that to your congregation?\u201d I\u2019m thinking: \u201cMan, I\u2019m a pastor; I\u2019d be like, \u2018I\u2019m either not going to do this,\u2019 or \u2018The congregation\u2019s going to know what\u2019s going on in my home.\u2019\u201d There\u2019s that balance.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Pamela: <\/strong>They did know, and they <em>did<\/em> love us. That was part of the healing.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bill: <\/strong>It was a turning point for our church, as well; because, as God broke me, finally I could become transparent. I was transparent with the congregation; Pamela was obviously transparent with the congregation. Our church changed. All along this time, it had been growing in numbers; but now it started growing in <em>depth<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p>As far as: \u201cHow did I make it through those years?\u201d\u2014I don\u2019t know, but I do know that God\u2019s faithfulness kept us going. There were times\u2014and we\u2019ve used this phrase\u2014I felt like \u201cI was holding onto God by a thread, but He was holding onto us with strong arms during that whole time.\u201d As Pamela said, the church was loving us and <em>praying<\/em> us through this.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>What would you say\u2014I mean, we\u2019ve talked about the breakthrough moment at<\/p>\n<p>18 years\u2014and yet, you said, after that, there was still work being done. Can you say you go to a point, where you said, \u201cI feel like the onion\u2019s been peeled\u201d; or is it still an ongoing process in your life today?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Pamela: <\/strong>I\u2019d say that the onion has been peeled. The core is not a stinky little bulb of an onion [Laughter]; instead, I see it as a diamond. When I look at myself in the mirror, I don\u2019t see the stinky onion anymore; I see a hard diamond, because of the cross.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>I think that\u2019s so beautiful. I think it\u2019s very typical, because I experienced the <em>same<\/em> thing; in that I thought: \u201cOh, I\u2019m healed! I\u2019m good!\u201d Then I would be triggered by something or someone else\u2019s story, and then it would all resurface; and I\u2019m thinking, \u201cWhat is happening?!\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I began to realize: \u201cOh, that\u2019s part of the healing. Isn\u2019t God gracious to not dump it all on me at once?\u201d\u2014because I couldn\u2019t handle it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bill: <\/strong>You know, we\u2019re talking here about process and the surprise at how <em>long<\/em> the process is. For years, I was praying for God\u2019s <em>instantaneous<\/em> healing.<\/p>\n<p>One time\u2014this takes me back in years\u2014<em>Leadership Journal<\/em> was actually a published journal at that time. There was an article by Archibald Hart, in which he said God sometimes\/oftentimes uses the process; because He builds more faith into us through the <em>process<\/em> than He does by granting us the instantaneous healing.<\/p>\n<p>I thought it would be a win-win if it was instantaneous: \u201cLook, God; the church would know what You\u2019ve done; that would be a win for You. And then I get to return to my normal controlling life, and that\u2019d be a win!\u201d [Laughter] God had better ideas.<\/p>\n<p>It makes me think of the blind man, in Mark, Chapter 8, that\u2019s brought to Jesus. Jesus takes him aside, away from the crowd\u2014which is what He had to do with me; He had to take me into some isolation to break me\u2014and then the text says that \u201cJesus spit into his eyes\u201d\u2014I find that really humorous\u2014and then asks him, \u201cCan you see?\u201d I want to say, \u201cJesus, just a minute; let me get this spit out of my eyes, and we\u2019ll find out!\u201d Then he [blind man] said: \u201cI see, but these people are looking like they\u2019re trees walking around. I\u2019m not seeing perfectly.\u201d Then Jesus touched his eyes, and He could see fully.<\/p>\n<p>I learned from that that God doesn\u2019t answer prayer the way we would expect. Who would have ever\u2014that man would have never expected that Jesus, in the process of healing, would have used spit. [Laughter]There are a lot of things in our lives, like, \u201cWow, God, I didn\u2019t expect that.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>But another thing about God is that His work of <em>process<\/em> is for the purpose of <em>perfecting<\/em> His healing. It may seem <em>alarming<\/em> when Pamela speaks of years and years of counseling, and it was <em>alarming<\/em> to me. I thought\/I can\u2019t tell you how many times her counselor said to me to be patient; it just <em>irritated<\/em> me so much. But the whole time, God was perfecting His work that He knew He needed to do in us.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>You guys have a ministry now to couples, who are going through this: Marriage Reconstruction Ministries. We have a link on our website at FamilyLifeToday.com for those who would like more information about what you\u2019re doing.<\/p>\n<p>Pamela, if you were sitting down with a young woman, who just said: \u201cI\u2019ve never shared this with anybody, but this was a part of my past,\u201d and \u201cI\u2019ve been scared to bring it up, but I heard you talking about it on the radio,\u201d and you had the first three minutes with her to tell her what she needs to know, what would you tell her?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Pamela: <\/strong>There is hope that this is not the end of life\u2014to have to feel the pain again\u2014and that it\u2019s really important to find someone, who is qualified in listening to trauma\/someone that knows what to do to help you unwrap your story slowly enough that it doesn\u2019t consume you and burn you.<\/p>\n<p>Find a couple of people, who can pray for you. I had a few women that I talked to and I just said: \u201cI will not survive this without prayer. Right now I cannot put two words together, so will you be my prayer warriors?\u201d They were.<\/p>\n<p>In the ministry that we have, Bill works with the husbands; and I am the one who has the privilege of being the prayer person. I pray for the wives while he\u2019s speaking with the husbands.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>Bill, if you had your first three minutes with the husband, who has just learned his wife\u2019s been abused, and he\u2019s thinking, \u201cI want to help her, sure; so what do we do?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bill: <\/strong>I can\u2019t tell him that it\u2019s going to take as long as God did for us. Every story is <em>unique<\/em>. But I would say:<\/p>\n<p>God is going to take you on a journey. You\u2019re going to learn more about your wife than you ever knew; but more importantly, you\u2019re going to learn more about <em>yourself<\/em> and more about <em>God<\/em> than you ever knew before. He\u2019s going to teach you some things that He would never be able to teach otherwise. He\u2019s going to test you; but out of this, He\u2019s going to develop something that can be really rich for your marriage.<\/p>\n<p>You will understand what it is to be in your wife\u2019s shoes if you\u2019re willing to enter into this journey, as well as remembering, making sure you keep in mind what it is to be in your shoes. You need to do some self-care; you need to have some self-awareness to know where God wants to develop you. Know what it is to be in your shoes, but learn what it is to be in your wife\u2019s shoes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>Pamela, share with us: \u201cHow did Bill\u2019s journey help you in your healing?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Pamela: <\/strong>I suddenly trusted a man, and I had <em>never<\/em> respected or trusted a man. I wanted to respect him as my husband; but underneath it all, I really held little respect for men. I thought I was smarter than they were; I could do anything a man could do and probably do it better.<\/p>\n<p>Then, as I watched Bill grow\u2014and as he was willing to go to school to learn what it was like for other men to be living with a woman who\u2019d been abused\u2014his understanding of me and love for me was <em>so<\/em> great and overflowing.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>\u2014and was different?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Pamela: <\/strong>Oh, <em>totally<\/em> different. He likes me to tell my stories of imagining things: how music has color to me; how I love to picture a beautiful sunset, and how I would paint it. Now, he sees that as the heart of me. That was one of the bigger changes.<\/p>\n<p>Just his tenderness when he would put me first\u2014it wasn\u2019t, \u201cI\u2019m putting you first, because you\u2019ve been such a battle-axe today; it\u2019s the only way to survive,\u201d\u2014there\u2019s just a complete heart difference.<\/p>\n<p>As my heart was completely rebuilt, Bill\u2019s heart was rebuilt; so we are not the same people. I have to say, though, there are days where\u2014like yesterday\u2014I wounded Bill; and I wounded him <em>deeply<\/em>. I told him, \u201cI am sorry that that anger, that I was feeling really at my abuser, and I imposed it onto you again; and I\u2019m sorry. I <em>know<\/em> I wounded you.\u201d And he forgave me.<\/p>\n<p>Those things do happen, but not with regularity. We have words to use now. We\u2019ve had a counselor that has really helped us to really ask the right questions, and the Holy Spirit is the <em>best<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>Bill, what would you say\u2014because I\u2019ve heard you both say you would not want the marriage you used to have\u2014and I\u2019ve heard Pamela explain what she means. What would you say? I\u2019m that husband, too; and I want to know how you would articulate the marriage you now have. Why is it better?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bill: <\/strong>Because\u2014I hope I\u2019m saying this in the right way\u2014it\u2019s better because of what God has done in me. Perhaps the first thought of a listener would be, \u201cWell, hey; Pamela\u2019s healed now; it has to be better.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Well, yes; but it would be <em>worse<\/em> if the changes hadn\u2019t occurred in me. I can appreciate those artistic things about Pamela; that\u2019s what makes our marriage better; whereas, before, it was all about me. Husbands, who are married to survivors, one thing that we need to get over\u2014we too often think about how <em>we<\/em> are affected by what\u2019s going on with our wives\u2014I had to stop that and think, \u201cMy goodness, I need to think of how Pamela\u2019s been affected by that abuse, not by how this affects me.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>We need to grow as individuals, as well, to realize that those times that we\u2019re yelled at\u2014yes, it was wounding the other day, but I realize what my counselor told me: \u201cThis affects me, but it\u2019s not about me.\u201d I have to remind myself that there\u2019s a battle going on, and that little girl is still hurting in Pamela towards that abuser. I happened to be in the way at that moment; but I need to grow up and be able to\u2014in the same way that God just embraces us in the midst of our craziness\u2014I need to embrace Pamela in the midst of some of that craziness that\u2019s still there.<\/p>\n<p>I want to share something here that\u2014I\u2019m going to list some words that would depict human experiences. For those, who are listening, whether you are the spouse of a survivor or a survivor, I just want you to think about these words. You are familiar with them.<\/p>\n<p>The first word\/the first experience is \u201caloneness.\u201d I mean, that, for sure, depicts the survivor; and it speaks to the spouse, too, feeling so alone: \u201cWho would ever understand what I\u2019m going through?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Another word would be \u201cshame.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Another one \u201chelplessness\u201d: \u201cHow am I going to get the right help?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Another one is \u201closs\u201d: \u201cI\u2019ve lost so much.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Another one would be \u201cabandonment.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Or \u201chumiliation.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Or \u201cthe silence of God.\u201d That, for sure: \u201cGod, where are You?!\u201d\u2014the silence of God.<\/p>\n<p>Every one of those experiences describes the experience of Christ when He was on the cross. You know, we emphasize empathy. Empathy is knowing what it is to be in your shoes, while simultaneously, knowing what it is to be in our own shoes. That\u2019s what Jesus did; that\u2019s what God did. In Christ, He empathized with us; in fact, He got into our shoes in Christ, who became man, without losing who He was in His shoes: God-man. Christ continued to be God as He walked among us.<\/p>\n<p>It is so reassuring to come back to those truths. I may yell out to God, or I may not even have the words to cry out to God; but to know that, whether it\u2019s survivor or spouse, where we are in the moment, God in Christ has already been there; and He came through it victoriously.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>That\u2019s the right place to land this conversation\u2014is to remember that we have a High Priest, who is sympathetic, who knows our frailties, who has experienced this, and who\u2019s victorious; and who offers us freedom and hope and liberation.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>I mean, that\u2019s the thing that just jumps off of you two, as a couple, is joy\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>I was going to say that; yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u2014that is <em>impossible<\/em> in this situation without Christ.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bill: <\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>Thank you for sharing your story.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Pamela: <\/strong>Thank you.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>Thanks for writing your book. I think any husband, whose wife has experienced sexual abuse of any kind, this is a book that he ought to read as a gift to her and a gift to himself. It\u2019s not just about how you can be a better husband, but it\u2019s about how you can confront\u2014as you\u2019ve shared with us, Bill\u2014some of your own issues here.<\/p>\n<p>We have copies of the book Bill has written called <em>Help! My Wife Is a Survivor of Sexual Abuse<\/em>. You can order the book from us, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to get your copy. Again, our website is FamilyLifeToday.com; the number to call to get a copy of the book, <em>Help! My Wife Is a Survivor of a Sexual Abuse<\/em>, is 1-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>One of my favorite Scriptures is from the Book of Isaiah, where Isaiah is talking about the coming of the Messiah. He says He\u2019ll exchange beauty for ashes. I think what we\u2019ve talked about today is just an illustration of how God can bring beauty out of <em>horrible<\/em> circumstances and situations. The word for that is redemption; God can <em>redeem<\/em> what has been broken, or destroyed, or injured, or marred.<\/p>\n<p>Here, at <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, we want to be a part of God\u2019s redeeming work in the lives of husbands and wives and families all around the world. We want to effectively develop godly marriages and families and to see God bring beauty out of the ashes of broken relationships.<\/p>\n<p>I want to thank those of you, who make programs like today\u2019s program possible through your financial support of this ministry. There\u2019s a team of listeners\u2014a <em>small<\/em> group of listeners\u2014some of them who, for years, have invested in the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. They\u2019ve made today\u2019s program possible for the rest of us to listen to. So if you have benefitted from today\u2019s program, you just need to know there are <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners, who made that possible for you.<\/p>\n<p>In fact, we\u2019d like to encourage <em>you<\/em> to be part of that team, making <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> possible in the future for those who will be listening, those who will benefit, those who will be helped by this program and by all we do here at <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. If you\u2019ve never made a donation, you can easily make a one-time donation. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com\u2014donate online\u2014or call us at 1-800-FL-TODAY to donate.<\/p>\n<p>If you\u2019re a regular listener, think about becoming a part of the Legacy Partner team, the team of folks, who make a monthly donation. You pick the amount and make <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> possible for your community, month in and month out, as a Legacy Partner. Again, you can do that online at FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY and say, \u201cI\u2019d like to become a Legacy Partner.\u201d On behalf of those, who will benefit from your investment: \u201cThank you for your giving to help effectively develop godly marriages and families. We appreciate you.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Now, tomorrow we\u2019re going to talk about the popular notion that the church in the United States is on the decline. Glenn Stanton says there is some truth to that, but maybe not as much as you might think. We\u2019ll talk about the myth of the dying church tomorrow. I hope you can tune in for that.<\/p>\n<p>I want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.<\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>We are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?<\/p>\n<p>Copyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2020 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a><\/p>\n<p>1<\/p>\n"],"duration":["00:30:25"],"show_notes":["<p>Show Notes and Resources<\/p>\n<p>Find resources from this podcast at https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/Products.aspx?categoryid=95.<br \/>\nCheck out all that's available on the FamilyLife Podcast Network.\u00a0 https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/familylife-podcast-network\/<br \/>\nHave the FamilyLife Today\u00ae podcast and resources helped you?\u00a0 Consider becoming a Legacy Partner, a monthly supporter of FamilyLife.\u00a0https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/legacy<\/p>\n"],"filesize":["27.86M"],"filesize_raw":["29208271"],"_edit_lock":["1728412936:47000"],"_edit_last":["47000"],"theme_header_position":["Sticky"],"post_header_is_sticky":["default"],"is_header_overlay":["0"],"episode_type":["audio"],"date_recorded":["2020-06-10 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and Pamela Ronzheimer talk about the journey they took to find healing for their marriage as they dealt with Pamela's past sexual abuse. They share why they'd never go back to the marriage they had before.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"<p>Show Notes and Resources<\/p>\n<p>Find resources from this podcast at https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/Products.aspx?categoryid=95.<br \/>\nCheck out all that's available on the FamilyLife Podcast Network.\u00a0 https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/familylife-podcast-network\/<br \/>\nHave the FamilyLife Today\u00ae podcast and resources helped you?\u00a0 Consider becoming a Legacy Partner, a monthly supporter of FamilyLife.\u00a0https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/legacy<\/p>\n","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2020-06-10.pdf","transcript_content":"<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>When a man and woman marry, the two become one; and that means that, in some way, the traumas of our past become a part of our shared experience as a couple. That\u2019s what Bill Ronzheimer experienced when his wife shared with him about her childhood sexual abuse, and they began a process that led to a deep healing in both of their lives. Bill says that can be a reality for any couple.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bill: <\/strong>God is going to take you on a journey. You\u2019re going to learn more about your wife than you ever knew; but more importantly, you\u2019re going to learn more about <em>yourself<\/em> and more about <em>God<\/em> than you ever knew before. He\u2019s going to teach you some things that He would never be able to teach you otherwise. He\u2019s going to test you; but out of this, He\u2019s going to develop something that <em>can be<\/em> really rich for your marriage.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Wednesday, June 10<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I'm Bob Lepine. You\u2019ll find us online at FamilyLifeToday.com. Sometimes there are events from our past that we\u2019d rather just ignore: wall them off and try to forget about them. Bill Ronzheimer says, when you go down a painful path, you\u2019ll find it leads to deep joy. We\u2019ll talk more about that today. Stay with us.<\/p>\n<p>And welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. We\u2019ve been talking this week about a tragic and maybe a <em>hidden<\/em> story\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>Very important to talk about.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014the issue of sexual abuse. You were saying you feel like the enemy is at work trying to keep this in the dark.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>I do. I get pretty passionate when I hear stories\u2014even when my sister brought her abuse out and shared it with my mom and my grandmother, their response\u2014and they didn\u2019t know\/they didn\u2019t know how to respond\u2014but their response was a shaming response of, \u201cWell, you better not do this again.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>Wow.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>In other words, saying it was <em>her<\/em> fault.<\/p>\n<p>When I shared my story for the first time publicly, a woman came up to me and she said, \u201cYou glorified <em>Satan<\/em> today.\u201d I thought: \u201cThat\u2019s the last thing I want to do! I want to bring this to the light so people can be set free!\u201d Then I was plagued with: \u201cDid I glorify Satan? Should I not have shared my story?\u201d I do think that Satan is on the warpath to keep this in the darkness, because he can work in the darkness.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, we\u2019re trying to bring it appropriately to the light as we\u2019re talking about it this week, and we have some friends who are helping us. Bill and Pamela Ronzheimer are joining us again. Welcome back, guys.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bill: <\/strong>Thank you; great to be here again.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Pamela: <\/strong>Thank you.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is a part of your story that you have brought to the light, and we\u2019ve shared this week how you experienced sexual abuse when you were in elementary school at the hands of a [principal]. You shared it with your parents and with friends, but they didn\u2019t know what to do with that. You thought, \u201cOkay, I just will keep it compartmentalized,\u201d\u2014never told your boyfriend, who became your husband.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Pamela: <\/strong>Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>It was ten years into your marriage\u2014and Bill, you\u2019re a pastor; you have two kids\u2014ten years into your marriage and this comes out at a pastor\u2019s retreat. You still weren\u2019t sure what to do with that or how to process it. Eight years later, you\u2019re starting to have an emotional breakdown, Pamela. You wind up in the psych ward of a hospital. Clearly, this scar\/this\u2014and as you said earlier, it\u2019s not really a scar; it\u2019s an infection that\u2019s still in your soul\u2014this is when it begins to be dealt with.<\/p>\n<p>Bill, you said you were starting to realize, \u201cShe\u2019s not the only one who has stuff that needs to be dealt with.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bill: <\/strong>Correct.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>God\u2019s starting to take <em>you<\/em> to the woodshed and say, \u201cWe have some issues here that you\u2014as a pastor, as a husband, as a follower of Christ\u2014things you need to repent of\/things you need to address.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bill: <\/strong>Yes; you know, we all know how, in marriage, there\u2019s a complimentary relationship between husband and wife. Well, our dysfunctions can be complimentary as well. For areas, where life is a bit distorted\u2014for Pamela, for example, in what sexuality is because of having been abused\u2014well, my life was distorted as well in many of my perceptions of: what it is to be the head of the home; what it is to be pure. In regard to human sexuality, there was distortion that was there for me; so, right, God needed to work in <em>my<\/em> life. I was enjoying being <em>king<\/em>. [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Pamela: <\/strong>And I was his little <em>queen<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bill: <\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>And all of a sudden, the queen\u2019s coming in and saying, \u201cWe have some things to talk about,\u201d and you\u2019re going, \u201cWait! What\u2019s happening?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bill: <\/strong>She didn\u2019t even need to say that. I tell you\u2014by this time, the Holy Spirit is <em>shouting<\/em> at me. God has a way of just grabbing our lives; and He may be shaking us, but He\u2019s doing it with pretty loving arms.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>Pamela, we talked about the fact that the healing from this was a matter of <em>years<\/em> of counseling and therapy. Why does it take years?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Pamela: <\/strong>Yes; because our psyche is so damaged. As physicians, in the last ten years have been able to map brain activity, that explains a lot of why it takes so long.<\/p>\n<p>For me, I would say, by the end of four years, I was teaching a women\u2019s study again\/doing some things. I would go two or three years, feeling really good, and then\u2014I looked at my life sort of like an onion; God would peel back that crusty, crinkly stuff of pain, and then I would feel really better; I would think, \u201cOh, good, the healing is complete,\u201d\u2014then, in His love, He would just peel back a little more; and it would hurt, and it would be hard, and it would trigger.<\/p>\n<p>When we talked about that first 18 years being our normal marriage, oh my goodness; it\u2019s <em>so much<\/em> better now. During that interim time from\u2014we look at life as \u201cbefore 1991\u201d and \u201cafter 1991\u201d\u2014there was a period after 1991, where our intimacy was completely destroyed. Everything that had been joyful for me suddenly became disgusting; my own body became disgusting, similar to when I had been a little girl.<\/p>\n<p>I really do believe that Satan used people that blamed me for the problem to just further embed lies that had already begun with the abuse. Then\u2014as I was able to just say: \u201cWell, now, I know what truth really is; God\u2019s Word is true,\u201d\u2014Satan\u2019s voice got quieter and quieter. Now, he\u2019s like background noise. I would just encourage you, if you are like me, the fight is <em>so<\/em> worth it. There is never a day, where I think, \u201cOh, I would have been better not to fight.\u201d It\u2019s a joy to live now.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yet, when you were in that fight\u2014and really, it was both\u2014it was a oneness fight together, right?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Pamela: <\/strong>It was.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>I\u2019m thinking: \u201cBill, you\u2019re a pastor. Pamela, you\u2019re at home; you\u2019re struggling\/your panic attacks\u2014I mean, you just described all of that.\u201d I\u2019m thinking: \u201cHow did you [Bill] do ministry? Where was your walk with God during that, where you were able to overflow that to your congregation?\u201d I\u2019m thinking: \u201cMan, I\u2019m a pastor; I\u2019d be like, \u2018I\u2019m either not going to do this,\u2019 or \u2018The congregation\u2019s going to know what\u2019s going on in my home.\u2019\u201d There\u2019s that balance.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Pamela: <\/strong>They did know, and they <em>did<\/em> love us. That was part of the healing.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bill: <\/strong>It was a turning point for our church, as well; because, as God broke me, finally I could become transparent. I was transparent with the congregation; Pamela was obviously transparent with the congregation. Our church changed. All along this time, it had been growing in numbers; but now it started growing in <em>depth<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p>As far as: \u201cHow did I make it through those years?\u201d\u2014I don\u2019t know, but I do know that God\u2019s faithfulness kept us going. There were times\u2014and we\u2019ve used this phrase\u2014I felt like \u201cI was holding onto God by a thread, but He was holding onto us with strong arms during that whole time.\u201d As Pamela said, the church was loving us and <em>praying<\/em> us through this.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>What would you say\u2014I mean, we\u2019ve talked about the breakthrough moment at<\/p>\n<p>18 years\u2014and yet, you said, after that, there was still work being done. Can you say you go to a point, where you said, \u201cI feel like the onion\u2019s been peeled\u201d; or is it still an ongoing process in your life today?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Pamela: <\/strong>I\u2019d say that the onion has been peeled. The core is not a stinky little bulb of an onion [Laughter]; instead, I see it as a diamond. When I look at myself in the mirror, I don\u2019t see the stinky onion anymore; I see a hard diamond, because of the cross.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>I think that\u2019s so beautiful. I think it\u2019s very typical, because I experienced the <em>same<\/em> thing; in that I thought: \u201cOh, I\u2019m healed! I\u2019m good!\u201d Then I would be triggered by something or someone else\u2019s story, and then it would all resurface; and I\u2019m thinking, \u201cWhat is happening?!\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I began to realize: \u201cOh, that\u2019s part of the healing. Isn\u2019t God gracious to not dump it all on me at once?\u201d\u2014because I couldn\u2019t handle it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bill: <\/strong>You know, we\u2019re talking here about process and the surprise at how <em>long<\/em> the process is. For years, I was praying for God\u2019s <em>instantaneous<\/em> healing.<\/p>\n<p>One time\u2014this takes me back in years\u2014<em>Leadership Journal<\/em> was actually a published journal at that time. There was an article by Archibald Hart, in which he said God sometimes\/oftentimes uses the process; because He builds more faith into us through the <em>process<\/em> than He does by granting us the instantaneous healing.<\/p>\n<p>I thought it would be a win-win if it was instantaneous: \u201cLook, God; the church would know what You\u2019ve done; that would be a win for You. And then I get to return to my normal controlling life, and that\u2019d be a win!\u201d [Laughter] God had better ideas.<\/p>\n<p>It makes me think of the blind man, in Mark, Chapter 8, that\u2019s brought to Jesus. Jesus takes him aside, away from the crowd\u2014which is what He had to do with me; He had to take me into some isolation to break me\u2014and then the text says that \u201cJesus spit into his eyes\u201d\u2014I find that really humorous\u2014and then asks him, \u201cCan you see?\u201d I want to say, \u201cJesus, just a minute; let me get this spit out of my eyes, and we\u2019ll find out!\u201d Then he [blind man] said: \u201cI see, but these people are looking like they\u2019re trees walking around. I\u2019m not seeing perfectly.\u201d Then Jesus touched his eyes, and He could see fully.<\/p>\n<p>I learned from that that God doesn\u2019t answer prayer the way we would expect. Who would have ever\u2014that man would have never expected that Jesus, in the process of healing, would have used spit. [Laughter]There are a lot of things in our lives, like, \u201cWow, God, I didn\u2019t expect that.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>But another thing about God is that His work of <em>process<\/em> is for the purpose of <em>perfecting<\/em> His healing. It may seem <em>alarming<\/em> when Pamela speaks of years and years of counseling, and it was <em>alarming<\/em> to me. I thought\/I can\u2019t tell you how many times her counselor said to me to be patient; it just <em>irritated<\/em> me so much. But the whole time, God was perfecting His work that He knew He needed to do in us.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>You guys have a ministry now to couples, who are going through this: Marriage Reconstruction Ministries. We have a link on our website at FamilyLifeToday.com for those who would like more information about what you\u2019re doing.<\/p>\n<p>Pamela, if you were sitting down with a young woman, who just said: \u201cI\u2019ve never shared this with anybody, but this was a part of my past,\u201d and \u201cI\u2019ve been scared to bring it up, but I heard you talking about it on the radio,\u201d and you had the first three minutes with her to tell her what she needs to know, what would you tell her?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Pamela: <\/strong>There is hope that this is not the end of life\u2014to have to feel the pain again\u2014and that it\u2019s really important to find someone, who is qualified in listening to trauma\/someone that knows what to do to help you unwrap your story slowly enough that it doesn\u2019t consume you and burn you.<\/p>\n<p>Find a couple of people, who can pray for you. I had a few women that I talked to and I just said: \u201cI will not survive this without prayer. Right now I cannot put two words together, so will you be my prayer warriors?\u201d They were.<\/p>\n<p>In the ministry that we have, Bill works with the husbands; and I am the one who has the privilege of being the prayer person. I pray for the wives while he\u2019s speaking with the husbands.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>Bill, if you had your first three minutes with the husband, who has just learned his wife\u2019s been abused, and he\u2019s thinking, \u201cI want to help her, sure; so what do we do?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bill: <\/strong>I can\u2019t tell him that it\u2019s going to take as long as God did for us. Every story is <em>unique<\/em>. But I would say:<\/p>\n<p>God is going to take you on a journey. You\u2019re going to learn more about your wife than you ever knew; but more importantly, you\u2019re going to learn more about <em>yourself<\/em> and more about <em>God<\/em> than you ever knew before. He\u2019s going to teach you some things that He would never be able to teach otherwise. He\u2019s going to test you; but out of this, He\u2019s going to develop something that can be really rich for your marriage.<\/p>\n<p>You will understand what it is to be in your wife\u2019s shoes if you\u2019re willing to enter into this journey, as well as remembering, making sure you keep in mind what it is to be in your shoes. You need to do some self-care; you need to have some self-awareness to know where God wants to develop you. Know what it is to be in your shoes, but learn what it is to be in your wife\u2019s shoes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>Pamela, share with us: \u201cHow did Bill\u2019s journey help you in your healing?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Pamela: <\/strong>I suddenly trusted a man, and I had <em>never<\/em> respected or trusted a man. I wanted to respect him as my husband; but underneath it all, I really held little respect for men. I thought I was smarter than they were; I could do anything a man could do and probably do it better.<\/p>\n<p>Then, as I watched Bill grow\u2014and as he was willing to go to school to learn what it was like for other men to be living with a woman who\u2019d been abused\u2014his understanding of me and love for me was <em>so<\/em> great and overflowing.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>\u2014and was different?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Pamela: <\/strong>Oh, <em>totally<\/em> different. He likes me to tell my stories of imagining things: how music has color to me; how I love to picture a beautiful sunset, and how I would paint it. Now, he sees that as the heart of me. That was one of the bigger changes.<\/p>\n<p>Just his tenderness when he would put me first\u2014it wasn\u2019t, \u201cI\u2019m putting you first, because you\u2019ve been such a battle-axe today; it\u2019s the only way to survive,\u201d\u2014there\u2019s just a complete heart difference.<\/p>\n<p>As my heart was completely rebuilt, Bill\u2019s heart was rebuilt; so we are not the same people. I have to say, though, there are days where\u2014like yesterday\u2014I wounded Bill; and I wounded him <em>deeply<\/em>. I told him, \u201cI am sorry that that anger, that I was feeling really at my abuser, and I imposed it onto you again; and I\u2019m sorry. I <em>know<\/em> I wounded you.\u201d And he forgave me.<\/p>\n<p>Those things do happen, but not with regularity. We have words to use now. We\u2019ve had a counselor that has really helped us to really ask the right questions, and the Holy Spirit is the <em>best<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>Bill, what would you say\u2014because I\u2019ve heard you both say you would not want the marriage you used to have\u2014and I\u2019ve heard Pamela explain what she means. What would you say? I\u2019m that husband, too; and I want to know how you would articulate the marriage you now have. Why is it better?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bill: <\/strong>Because\u2014I hope I\u2019m saying this in the right way\u2014it\u2019s better because of what God has done in me. Perhaps the first thought of a listener would be, \u201cWell, hey; Pamela\u2019s healed now; it has to be better.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Well, yes; but it would be <em>worse<\/em> if the changes hadn\u2019t occurred in me. I can appreciate those artistic things about Pamela; that\u2019s what makes our marriage better; whereas, before, it was all about me. Husbands, who are married to survivors, one thing that we need to get over\u2014we too often think about how <em>we<\/em> are affected by what\u2019s going on with our wives\u2014I had to stop that and think, \u201cMy goodness, I need to think of how Pamela\u2019s been affected by that abuse, not by how this affects me.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>We need to grow as individuals, as well, to realize that those times that we\u2019re yelled at\u2014yes, it was wounding the other day, but I realize what my counselor told me: \u201cThis affects me, but it\u2019s not about me.\u201d I have to remind myself that there\u2019s a battle going on, and that little girl is still hurting in Pamela towards that abuser. I happened to be in the way at that moment; but I need to grow up and be able to\u2014in the same way that God just embraces us in the midst of our craziness\u2014I need to embrace Pamela in the midst of some of that craziness that\u2019s still there.<\/p>\n<p>I want to share something here that\u2014I\u2019m going to list some words that would depict human experiences. For those, who are listening, whether you are the spouse of a survivor or a survivor, I just want you to think about these words. You are familiar with them.<\/p>\n<p>The first word\/the first experience is \u201caloneness.\u201d I mean, that, for sure, depicts the survivor; and it speaks to the spouse, too, feeling so alone: \u201cWho would ever understand what I\u2019m going through?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Another word would be \u201cshame.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Another one \u201chelplessness\u201d: \u201cHow am I going to get the right help?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Another one is \u201closs\u201d: \u201cI\u2019ve lost so much.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Another one would be \u201cabandonment.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Or \u201chumiliation.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Or \u201cthe silence of God.\u201d That, for sure: \u201cGod, where are You?!\u201d\u2014the silence of God.<\/p>\n<p>Every one of those experiences describes the experience of Christ when He was on the cross. You know, we emphasize empathy. Empathy is knowing what it is to be in your shoes, while simultaneously, knowing what it is to be in our own shoes. That\u2019s what Jesus did; that\u2019s what God did. In Christ, He empathized with us; in fact, He got into our shoes in Christ, who became man, without losing who He was in His shoes: God-man. Christ continued to be God as He walked among us.<\/p>\n<p>It is so reassuring to come back to those truths. I may yell out to God, or I may not even have the words to cry out to God; but to know that, whether it\u2019s survivor or spouse, where we are in the moment, God in Christ has already been there; and He came through it victoriously.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>That\u2019s the right place to land this conversation\u2014is to remember that we have a High Priest, who is sympathetic, who knows our frailties, who has experienced this, and who\u2019s victorious; and who offers us freedom and hope and liberation.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>I mean, that\u2019s the thing that just jumps off of you two, as a couple, is joy\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>I was going to say that; yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u2014that is <em>impossible<\/em> in this situation without Christ.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bill: <\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>Thank you for sharing your story.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Pamela: <\/strong>Thank you.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>Thanks for writing your book. I think any husband, whose wife has experienced sexual abuse of any kind, this is a book that he ought to read as a gift to her and a gift to himself. It\u2019s not just about how you can be a better husband, but it\u2019s about how you can confront\u2014as you\u2019ve shared with us, Bill\u2014some of your own issues here.<\/p>\n<p>We have copies of the book Bill has written called <em>Help! My Wife Is a Survivor of Sexual Abuse<\/em>. You can order the book from us, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to get your copy. Again, our website is FamilyLifeToday.com; the number to call to get a copy of the book, <em>Help! My Wife Is a Survivor of a Sexual Abuse<\/em>, is 1-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>One of my favorite Scriptures is from the Book of Isaiah, where Isaiah is talking about the coming of the Messiah. He says He\u2019ll exchange beauty for ashes. I think what we\u2019ve talked about today is just an illustration of how God can bring beauty out of <em>horrible<\/em> circumstances and situations. The word for that is redemption; God can <em>redeem<\/em> what has been broken, or destroyed, or injured, or marred.<\/p>\n<p>Here, at <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, we want to be a part of God\u2019s redeeming work in the lives of husbands and wives and families all around the world. We want to effectively develop godly marriages and families and to see God bring beauty out of the ashes of broken relationships.<\/p>\n<p>I want to thank those of you, who make programs like today\u2019s program possible through your financial support of this ministry. There\u2019s a team of listeners\u2014a <em>small<\/em> group of listeners\u2014some of them who, for years, have invested in the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. They\u2019ve made today\u2019s program possible for the rest of us to listen to. So if you have benefitted from today\u2019s program, you just need to know there are <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners, who made that possible for you.<\/p>\n<p>In fact, we\u2019d like to encourage <em>you<\/em> to be part of that team, making <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> possible in the future for those who will be listening, those who will benefit, those who will be helped by this program and by all we do here at <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. If you\u2019ve never made a donation, you can easily make a one-time donation. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com\u2014donate online\u2014or call us at 1-800-FL-TODAY to donate.<\/p>\n<p>If you\u2019re a regular listener, think about becoming a part of the Legacy Partner team, the team of folks, who make a monthly donation. You pick the amount and make <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> possible for your community, month in and month out, as a Legacy Partner. Again, you can do that online at FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY and say, \u201cI\u2019d like to become a Legacy Partner.\u201d On behalf of those, who will benefit from your investment: \u201cThank you for your giving to help effectively develop godly marriages and families. We appreciate you.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Now, tomorrow we\u2019re going to talk about the popular notion that the church in the United States is on the decline. Glenn Stanton says there is some truth to that, but maybe not as much as you might think. We\u2019ll talk about the myth of the dying church tomorrow. I hope you can tune in for that.<\/p>\n<p>I want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.<\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>We are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?<\/p>\n<p>Copyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2020 FamilyLife. 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