{"id":306067,"date":"2020-06-03T07:00:08","date_gmt":"2020-06-03T11:00:08","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/fathers-and-a-thriving-faith\/"},"modified":"2024-10-24T14:25:39","modified_gmt":"2024-10-24T18:25:39","slug":"fathers-and-a-thriving-faith","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/fathers-and-a-thriving-faith\/","title":{"rendered":"Fathers and a Thriving Faith"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Sean McDowell and J. Warner Wallace realize this is a question on the heart of parents. While there are a lot of factors that lead to a child&#8217;s thriving faith, hear what studies have shown to be the number one factor.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Sean McDowell and J. Warner Wallace realize this is a question on the heart of parents. While there are a lot of factors that lead to a child&#8217;s thriving faith, hear what studies have shown to be the number one factor.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"audio","audio_file":"https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2020-06-03.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:27:42","filesize":"25.36M","filesize_raw":"26588908","date_recorded":"2020-06-03 07:00:08","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2806,2855,2870],"tags":[4299],"podcast_series":[8365],"cwp_profile":[9849,9628],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-306067","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-spiritual-development","category-teens","category-tweens","tag-faith","podcast_series-so-the-next-generation-will-know","cwp_profile-dr-sean-mcdowell","cwp_profile-j-warner-wallace","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/306067\/fathers-and-a-thriving-faith","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/306067\/fathers-and-a-thriving-faith","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"tw6WEqMmbA\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/fathers-and-a-thriving-faith\/\">Fathers and a Thriving Faith<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/fathers-and-a-thriving-faith\/embed\/#?secret=tw6WEqMmbA\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Fathers and a Thriving Faith&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"tw6WEqMmbA\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2020-06-03.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2020-06-03.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>What matters most to us, as parents, is how our kids are doing spiritually; that should matter most. What do we do when our kids just aren\u2019t connecting around faith? Here\u2019s J. Warner Wallace.<\/p>\n<p><strong>J. Warner: <\/strong>If you feel like right now your kids are simply\u2014they\u2019re in their teenage years, and they\u2019re resistant to the things of church; they\u2019ve dropped off in interest in going to church; you\u2019re having a harder time having spiritual conversations with them\u2014I get it; we\u2019ve all been there. Now is the time to build on the relationship side; because trust me, the time is coming when they will hear what you\u2019re saying from an informational perspective.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Wednesday, June 3<sup>rd<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I'm Bob Lepine. You can find us online at FamilyLifeToday.com. Taking kids through the teenage years can be turbulent; and when things aren\u2019t connecting around faith, it\u2019s easy to become anxious as parents. How do we deal with that? We\u2019ll talk more about that today. Stay with us.<\/p>\n<p>And welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. I have to think, as a pastor, you\u2019re talking to parents all the time who have anxiety about\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u2014everything!\u2014everything!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes, the culture we live in\u2014but their kids\u2014they\u2019re looking at their kids, and the trajectory they\u2019re seeing other kids go in, and they\u2019re thinking, \u201cAre my kids going to abandon, what we\u2019ve tried to teach them, first chance they get?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>I think every one of us sitting around this table probably feels that, because we\u2019re all parents.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>I can remember standing at the front window as my oldest 16-year-old drove away for the first time and just, number one, freaking out with anxiety, and then praying. Because you\u2019re watching: \u201cI no longer have control,\u201d\u2014like we ever did\u2014but you know, you\u2019re thinking, \u201cWow! This is a moment\/a transitional moment.\u201d That is not just driving a car; that\u2019s their faith\u2014you really wrestle with that as a parent.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>Moms\u2014this is heavy on the heart of every mom I know.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>These are the things that keep us moms awake at night.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>We think about this; we\u2019re fearful. I think this generation, especially, there are so many new things going on with social media\/with the culture that\u2019s changing. I think we\u2019re <em>afraid<\/em> of what will happen to our kids.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>She would grab me at night. You know, when you said that I was thinking\u2014she\u2019d be laying there; I\u2019d be sound asleep\u2014you know, we have teenagers or middle schoolers\u2014and she would grab me: \u201cThey\u2019re not going to believe in God in the next year!\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cOh, they\u2019re okay; there\u2019s no big deal. They\u2019re going to figure it out,\u201d\u2014right?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>Oh, I\u2019m worrying about school: I\u2019m worrying about their teachers, what the other peers are teaching them, the culture\u2014how it is affecting them. I would stay awake thinking about those things.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>We have a couple of guys joining us this week who are going to help us know how we can kind of take a deep breath, how we can get a strategy put together as parents, how we can be aware of what\u2019s going on, and be shrewd in the midst of this situation.<\/p>\n<p>These guys have been on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> before, but never together; so it\u2019s nice to have them side by side. Sean McDowell and J. Warner Wallace are with us; guys, welcome.<\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>Sean: <\/strong>Thanks for having us; yes, this is great.<\/p>\n<p><strong>J. Warner: <\/strong>Thanks for having us!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>Sean is on the faculty of Biola University. J. Warner Wallace is a former L.A. police detective\/a cold case detective, who has, since coming to Christ, applied his police techniques to looking at the gospel record to show the evidence for the truth of Christianity. Last time you were here, we talked about <em>Cold-Case Christianity<\/em>\/the books that you\u2019ve written on that.<\/p>\n<p>The two of you worked together on a book that has just been released recently that\u2019s called <em>So the Next Generation Will Know<\/em>. A lot of this was borne\u2014J. Warner, you were a bad youth pastor; right? [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>J. Warner: <\/strong>Yes, it felt like it! [Laughter] I hate to say that; but when I got saved, I was about 35; and my kids were maybe in first and second grade. We\u2019re in a large church, and my kids did not want to sit in their children\u2019s ministry without our being with them. They\u2019d never been to church before, so they had never been dropped off at a children\u2019s ministry while we went to the big church. I would sit with them in their Sunday school class about every other week\u2014or Susie would, my wife\u2014and at some point, if you sit in class at a big church, and you\u2019re there every week, what\u2019s the next thing that\u2019s going to happen?\u2014\u201cWell, can you teach this class?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>J. Warner: <\/strong>We didn\u2019t know two things about Christianity, but they had a curriculum; so we started teaching. I just kind of followed my kids up; and as they got older, then I became the coordinator for fifth and sixth grade at this church, which was about 500 students in the fifth and sixth grades there. Then I became a youth pastor; and as my kids were in high school, I was their high school youth pastor.<\/p>\n<p>But that first year, I think every senior\u2014except for maybe one or two\u2014walked away from their faith before the first break of their freshman year. I thought, \u201cThis is my problem.\u201d But as I researched it, I realized this was pretty much common to a lot of youth pastors. Probably today, most of us don\u2019t track whether our kids\/our graduating seniors are still in the faith a year later. I bet if youth pastors tracked the departure rate of their graduating seniors, they would be pretty distressed.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014and would have to stop and say, \u201cDo we need to retool and recalibrate what we\u2019re doing?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>J. Warner: <\/strong>That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>Sean, you teach at Biola. You have taught high school students in a Christian high school. If parents are sending their kids to Christian schools, they don\u2019t need to worry about this stuff; right?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sean: <\/strong>Yes, that is definitely one of the stereotypes that I hear all the time. In fact, being at a Christian school, I kind of got the impression over awhile that parents would send their kids for me to fix them. I think a lot of people that send their kids to youth group and Christian schools are concerned with behavior: \u201cAs long as my kids aren\u2019t smoking, and drinking, and doing bad things, then I am fine.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>So yes, I deal with that. But I also think there are a lot of parents, like you mentioned, who are hungry, just saying: \u201cOkay, how do we really do this? What does it look like to raise up a generation, who embraces the faith, wants to live it out in this world that is just confused and upside-down and has pressures, one click away, every moment of their lives?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>So you guys sat down and said, \u201cWe want to write something,\u201d\u2014not only to help the church and help youth pastors; because, you know, as a pastor, I find the same thing as you did as a Christian schoolteacher\u2014they\u2019re sending their kids to our church and sort of stepping back, like, \u201cOkay, you got them; you\u2019ll train them.\u201d But then, at some point, I think there is an intensity that comes to their lives, like, \u201cI need to be a part of this.\u201d So you sat down and said, \u201cWe have to help them.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>J. Warner: <\/strong>Well, and this was Sean\u2019s idea; he came to me. We both teach at Biola; and we have a program there\/a master\u2019s program in apologetics. We recognized that, if we could just get youth pastors to embrace a more evidential approach with their students, it would probably answer about 80 percent of what young people say is the reason why they are stepping out of the church for a season.<\/p>\n<p>They usually offer some kind of objection or some kind of unanswered question, which is based in evidence; you know: \u201cHow do I reconcile the evil I see in the world with the existence of God?\u201d \u201cHow do I\u2026\u201d It\u2019s about 70 percent evidence stuff\/factual claims of Christianity; about 30 percent relational. He [Sean] said, \u201cWe could write a book that maybe youth pastors would embrace and learn how to teach this Christian worldview to young people.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I thought, \u201cWell, if we can expand this to Christian educators and parents,\u201d\u2014I think that\u2019s really where the core; both of us have done all three of those jobs, right?\u2014I think that\u2019s really the group that I think has the most weight-carrying in terms of young people and preparing them for the next season of life: it\u2019s going to be parents, youth pastors, and Christian educators.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sean: <\/strong>I think what we didn\u2019t want to do is give parents: \u201cHere\u2019s a new curriculum\/here\u2019s a new program. You become an expert at this and pass it on to your kids.\u201d Parents don\u2019t have time; they\u2019re busy; they have stuff going on.<\/p>\n<p>Our approach was not to do that. It was to say, \u201cOkay, how can we help those, who are gate-keepers to students\/the most important influencers in their lives?\u201d\u2014it could be a mentor, could be a teacher, could be a coach\u2014\u201cHow do we help them more effectively use the opportunities that are already there, in a gospel kind of manner, to just teach them to embrace and live out the faith?\u201d It\u2019s not so much adding something new; but it\u2019s saying, \u201cLet\u2019s look a little bit more strategically at opportunities that are right in front of us if we have the perspective to look for them\u2014for ways to shape the thinking of this generation.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>J. Warner: <\/strong>That\u2019s a huge point, too; because if I had to read a book, as a parent\u2014again, that\u2019s going to tell me: number one, \u201cHere are all the things you\u2019ve been doing wrong,\u201d\u2014[Laughter]\u2014I already get that! I don\u2019t need another book to tell me that. Number two, \u201cHere\u2019s a bunch of new stuff you have no time to do,\u201d\u2014I don\u2019t think we\u2019re going to make any progress with either of these three groups, so we haven\u2019t done that. We actually say, \u201cHey, let\u2019s leverage what you\u2019re <em>already<\/em> doing, make some subtle tweaks, and see what happens.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>I think there is a big thesis in this book\u2014that you have to catch this at the very beginning or you\u2019re going to miss the whole thing\u2014and that is, the foundation on which you build a worldview, and truth, and evidence is a foundation of relationship. That\u2019s where you\u2014you talked about 70 percent evidence and 30 percent relationship\u2014if moms and dads aren\u2019t cultivating a healthy, strong relationship with their kids, all the evidence training and all of the apologetics isn\u2019t going to wash with them; is it?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sean: <\/strong>Here\u2019s the reality: I work with a lot of youth pastors, and I work with a lot of teachers and apologists. Apologists tend to say: \u201cThis generation\u2014they need truth; they need arguments. Give them the facts.\u201d As a whole, youth pastors tend to say, \u201cWe have to build relationships with them\/experiences.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I\u2019m looking at both, saying, \u201cActually, they\u2019re <em>both<\/em> true; we need both. Jesus came in grace and He came in truth.\u201d The book has truths in there to teach to the next generation; but it\u2019s all through the lens of relationship, which is why each chapter is: \u201cLove Begins,\u201d \u201cLove Trains,\u201d \u201cLove Equips.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>To kind of frame it: when you think about it, when God chooses to communicate with us\u2014yes, He sent an angel; yes, He sent a book; yes, He sent prophecy and prophets; et cetera\u2014but to ultimately reveal Himself was through His Son in person\/in relationship. Paul says to the church at Thessalonica, \u201cWe not only gave you the gospel\u201d\u2014which is truth\u2014\u201cwe gave you our very own lives.\u201d We have to do <em>both<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>J. Warner: <\/strong>That should be encouraging for parents; it should be. I think part of the thing we see is, as parents are: \u201cHow do I solve this problem? My kids are coming to me with questions that I\u2019m not really prepared to answer.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Well, it turns out that this combination of relationship and truth is tied at the hip. You will be the most influential with any claim you make if it starts with the relationship. So parents, we have relationships. Hopefully, you know\u2014remember when your kids were in elementary school?\u2014that was probably the most influence I ever had on my kids, as a parent; right? As they get a little bit older, they kind of find other authorities that they rely on for certain sources of information.<\/p>\n<p>Well, you happen to have all the relationship you need to get this done. But when they come to you with a question, if you don\u2019t have that answer, then they\u2019re going to go some place to get that answer. They\u2019ll settle for a less than relationship with you to get their answer\u2014online, somebody they know at school, a teacher\u2014whatever it may be.<\/p>\n<p>I just think what we need to do is help ourselves to say, \u201cWe\u2019re going to build those relationships.\u201d It\u2019s not an either\/or; it\u2019s a both\/and.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sean: <\/strong>By the way, at the beginning of the book, there\u2019s a chapter\u2014Jim has done some pretty remarkable research on this, finding all the studies over the past\/really, going into Millennials, of why kids leave the faith\u2014there\u2019s a range of studies that give different factors.<\/p>\n<p>Well, one of the studies that really stood out to me as perhaps the most significant study, if I had to pick one; it\u2019s by a USC professor named Vern Bengtson; he\u2019s a sociologist. They studied 3500 people\u201435 years\/4 generations\u2014from kids to great-grandparents, simply asking the question\u2014not just Christians, but any faith\u2014\u201cWhat are the most important factors for faith transmission?\u201d They published it in 2013 with Oxford.<\/p>\n<p>Their conclusion, after all this research, was there are a lot of factors in influence; but number one was \u201cwarm relationship with the father\u201d\u2014number <em>one<\/em>, statistically. That doesn\u2019t make mothers unimportant. The reality is: fathers tend to be more of a wild card; the moms tend to be there more. But just statistical research\u2014that relationship, like you said, is at the heart of it\u2014that <em>drives<\/em> the book for us.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>Answer this\u2014if I\u2019m listening right now, and I\u2019m a dad who hears that and goes: \u201cOh no; I don\u2019t have that. I had it when they were little kids\/little daughter or son. He\u2019s 15, 16, 17; he\u2019s pulling away. I\u2019ve made some bad mistakes with him\/with her. Man, that\u2019s the number-one thing, I just heard, \u2018a warm relationship,\u2019 but I\u2019m going, \u2018My daughter would say, \u201cI don\u2019t have that with my dad,\u201d or \u2018My son\u2026\u201d\u2014talk to that dad: \u201cI don\u2019t know what to do. How do I transmit this?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sean: <\/strong>The first thing I would say is what sets Christianity apart is grace. It\u2019s not going to do any good to beat yourself up. I understand regret; I understand the pain. But you know what? That\u2019s where God\u2019s grace comes in and covers that. Just start where you are; start where you are.<\/p>\n<p>The last chapter\u2019s entitled \u201cLove Begins.\u201d I simply say, shortly: \u201cLook, there are probably a ton of ideas here. Don\u2019t feel like you have to do everything. Find one thing you can do to start advancing the ball, so to speak.\u201d Maybe it\u2019s just calling his daughter more; maybe it\u2019s going to a meal; maybe it\u2019s saying: \u201cCan I take you out for a meal? Can I share with you? I just want to be honest with you; I realized I failed, as a dad, and I want to do better. Help me be a better dad.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Man, in 99-plus percent of cases\u2014it might take awhile; it might not be easy\u2014but kids yearn for that relationship with a father; they want it. If you\u2019re willing to stick with it\u2014humble yourself\u2014and anything is possible with God.<\/p>\n<p><strong>J. Warner: <\/strong>There was a study in 2018 from someone named Jana Magruder and Ben Trueblood, called \u201cNothing Less: Engaging Kids in a Lifetime of Faith.\u201d What\u2019s so interesting about this\u2014what we\u2019re just talking about is at the center of it. Parents, who had a better retention rate for their young people, who stayed in the faith\/who embraced the faith that they were raised in, they looked at them and said, \u201cWhat are their characteristics?\u201d They identified nine characteristics of parents, who behave in a certain way, and end up having the results with their kids staying in the faith. But right in the middle was asking forgiveness when they messed up as parents. It\u2019s just this kind of transparency we\u2019re talking about.<\/p>\n<p>I mean, statistically, we know that\u2019s even true from studies and surveys we do with parents\u2014who are actually, at least, repentant\u2014\u201cHow do you say, \u2018No,\u2019 to this, if someone is actually that vulnerable?\u201d I\u2019m sure that we\u2019re going to see a spectrum of responses from kids and parents; but that is such\u2014that kind of humility is\u2014I think opens the door to conversations about the gospel.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>I would just say, \u201cThank you,\u201d\u2014what you guys just gave us. I mean, I would say to that dad and that mom listening right now, at the end of this broadcast: \u201cToday\u2019s your day. I mean, the word, \u2018It\u2019s never too late,\u2019\u2014what a powerful word\u2014asking forgiveness and walking in there. I\u2019ve had to do that as a dad\u2014walk in their and say, \u2018I\u2019ve blown it.\u2019\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I always want to put that conversation till tomorrow, or a week later, or a decade later; and when you miss that moment, you miss it. I\u2019m just saying to the dad <em>and<\/em> the mom: \u201cRight now, today\u2019s your day. It isn\u2019t too late. Yes, the relationship isn\u2019t where you want it to be, but today could\u2014walk in that room tonight; send that email; make the phone call\u2014whatever it takes. This is the day to start the relationship which is going to end in incredible fruit.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>I don\u2019t think that\u2019s easy, because our kids can pull away; and they don\u2019t always give us the response that we\u2019re hoping. I know that, as teenagers, my boys were pulling away\u2014our boys were more quiet\u2014so we would try to pull in. I think when we feel that rejection, as a parent, we\u2019re like, \u201cOh; see, they really don\u2019t want to be with me.\u201d But I think they do.<\/p>\n<p>As you guys were talking about the dad, I\u2019m thinking of all the moms listening, thinking: \u201cSee? It\u2019s my husband\u2019s fault!\u201d [Laughter] So even as moms\u2014maybe our husbands aren\u2019t as involved, even spiritually or relationally\u2014how can we encourage our husbands, as wives, to get more involved? Even as moms, how do we not get our feelings hurt when our teens push us away?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sean: <\/strong>Those are two great questions. I would say, with a husband, what <em>not<\/em> to do is to point <em>all<\/em> the wrong things that the husband is doing. I would like to say that I\u2019m humble and I\u2019d take it like a champ; but my wife rightly points out things, and just my defenses come up. But when my wife comes to me and goes: \u201cYou know, that time you spend with Shane\u2014do you realize how <em>powerful<\/em> that was in his life? I <em>love<\/em> seeing you do that. I know you want to be a good dad.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>We have to be careful not to be manipulative\u2014that\u2019s not my point\u2014but to <em>find<\/em> the positive and praise it. There might be a time, where you go: \u201cYou know what? Do you realize what you did?\u2014I love you, and I\u2019m going to speak truth to you,\u201d\u2014but being encouraging and being positive, and helping him see how powerful his voice is, and that he can do it.<\/p>\n<p>I think any man, who would be the kind of father that would do it\u2014that doesn\u2019t have other issues he needs to deal with\u2014would probably respond to a loving, supportive wife that believes in him like that. I think we\u2019re wired that way: when my wife gets behind me and gets excited, it just energizes me. That\u2019s probably where I would start with the husband.<\/p>\n<p><strong>J. Warner: <\/strong>I just had an experience last weekend I want to share with you, though. I was at my dad\u2019s 80<sup>th<\/sup> birthday. It was kind of a family reunion. My dad remarried; he has six children from his second marriage, and they\u2019re still married. All these six kids came together to celebrate my dad\u2019s birthday. I kind of got surprised; he thought it was a family reunion; \u201cIt\u2019s actually for your birthday, Dad.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I came in a day late, because I live further away. When I got there, they had recorded video messages that they played on the night of the big party to my dad. I\u2019m listening to each of his children. Now, I can tell you, this was a hectic upbringing; that I thought, from watching from the outside, looking in, I was like, \u201cThis is crazy what\u2019s going on.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>But I will tell you that every story from my half-brothers and -sisters, as they were describing my dad, started with something my dad did in which he took, from his family of six, he would grab that one child and take them, isolated\/one on one, and do something, repeatedly. All of their memories and the influence he has had on them comes from this one-on-one time he had spent.<\/p>\n<p>I thought, \u201cEvery young dad should have to go to the 80<sup>th<\/sup> birthday party of a dad, who has this kind of\u201d\u2014just so they can hear this. If I\u2019d have known that, going in\u2014I would have realized this relationship between relationships and truth\u2014it\u2019s in those conversations, where you\u2019re just on a one on one, that you remember doing with your dad, that\u2019s where you have these kinds of conversations; right?<\/p>\n<p>My dad\u2019s not a believer; I wasn\u2019t raised in a believing home. Now, for a lot of years, I knew that he was not going to hear any of the information I wanted to share with him about the gospel; it was bouncing off like Teflon<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>. I spent a lot of time in that 20 years sharing gospel claims with him.<\/p>\n<p>Last year, I decided to leverage the relationship I had with him to get him to consider the claim. My best presentation of what I believe about God to my dad occurred on the road\u2014on the way to Jefferson, Texas\u2014to get barbecue. That\u2019s where that conversation\u2014I thought it was a breakthrough conversation.<\/p>\n<p>I would say to parents: \u201cIf you feel like right now your kids are simply\u2014they\u2019re in their teenage years, and they\u2019re resistant to the things of church; they\u2019ve dropped off in interest in going to church; you\u2019re having a harder time, maybe, having spiritual conversations with them\u2014I get it; we\u2019ve all been there. Now is the time to build on the relationship side; because trust me, the time is coming when they will hear what you\u2019re saying from an informational perspective.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sean: <\/strong>When I was teaching high school full time at a Christian school, I had a student come to me after class. He goes, \u201cHey, Mr. McDowell, what do I have to do to get a C-minus in your class?\u201d [Laughter] Talk about, \u201cI really don\u2019t care; I need to do the <em>minimum<\/em>.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I said, \u201cWhy do you want a C-minus?\u201d He goes, \u201cWell, that\u2019s what I need for my mom and dad to allow me to have a car.\u201d I said, \u201cOkay, here\u2019s what you need to do\u2026\u201d\u2014I mean, sweet kid; didn\u2019t mean it, but just would sit in the back and do the minimal. Graduates; the next year, he comes back and wants to sit in my class. He goes, \u201cHey, can I sit in and observe?\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cSure!\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I come to him after class; I\u2019m like: \u201cWhat is going on? You wanted a C-minus; now you want to sit and observe. What happened?\u201d He goes: \u201cWell, I\u2019m at the junior college. My professors are like, \u2018Evolution is true; God doesn\u2019t exist. The Bible has contradictions.\u2019\u201d He goes, \u201cNow, all of a sudden, I realize this is important.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I said to him, \u201cWhat could I have done differently to help you get that in high school?\u201d He looks at me and he goes, \u201cOh, nothing.\u201d He goes, \u201cI just wasn\u2019t there spiritually, but you made more of a difference than you realize.\u201d That\u2019s what parents have to remember.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>I think that\u2019s so important; because I think the mom or the dad that does what we\u2019ve talked about here today\u2014the dad, who sits down and says: \u201cI\u2019ve not been the parent I should be, and I want to ask your forgiveness. I want to be a better dad,\u201d and the kid rolls his eyes and says, \u201cYes, whatever,\u201d\u2014you walk out there, as a dad, and you go, \u201cThat didn\u2019t do any good\u201d; that made more of a difference than you know.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>So don\u2019t buy the rolling of the eyes. Don\u2019t think they\u2019re not listening; they are. God\u2019s at work in the midst of that. Don\u2019t get discouraged; don\u2019t become weary in well-doing\u2014Galatians 6; right?\u2014keep sowing. At the appropriate time, you will reap if you do not faint and give up.<\/p>\n<p>I think moms and dads are going to be really encouraged by what you guys have written in your book, <em>So the Next Generation Will Know: Preparing Young Christians for a Challenging World.<\/em> There\u2019s both a book and there\u2019s a participant guide. If you want to go through this with other moms and dads, it\u2019s a great guide to take you through eight sessions on this topic.<\/p>\n<p>We have both the book and the participant guide in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. Go online at FamilyLifeToday.com to get your copy of the book or the participant guide; or you can call to order: 1-800-FL-TODAY is our number. Again, our website is FamilyLifeToday.com; the number to call to get the book, <em>So the Next Generation Will Know<\/em>, or the participant guide\u2014call 1-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>You know, I think what we\u2019ve talked about has to be at the top of most parents\u2019 lists of things that they\u2019re concerned about: \u201cThe faith of the next generation\u2014whether young people today\/teenagers, young adults, young married couples\u2014\u2018Are they going to stay anchored in the Scriptures\/are they going to continue to believe the Bible? Are they going to hold to what God\u2019s Word has to say, not just about marriage and family, but about everything in life?\u2019\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Here, at FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, we are burdened by that as well. As we put programs together, like the program you\u2019ve been listening to today, our hope is that we\u2019re helping to equip grandparents and moms and dads with the kind of practical biblical help we need so that we can engage with our children and grandchildren around issues of faith and around the issues they\u2019re facing in life. <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is all about providing practical biblical help and hope for marriages and families.<\/p>\n<p>As you help support this ministry, you\u2019re helping us reach more people, more often, with this kind of practical biblical help and hope. This has been a difficult few months for many ministries, for many businesses, for many families; we recognize that\u2019s the case. Those of you, who are able to be generous right now, just know that your generosity is very much appreciated and very much needed these days. So thanks for reaching out to us. You can donate online at FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can call to donate: 1-800-FL-TODAY is our number. Again, thanks in advance for whatever you\u2019re able to do in support of the ministry.<\/p>\n<p>Now, tomorrow, we want to talk about technology and how that presents a fresh challenge for us, as parents, trying to raise our kids with a biblical way of thinking\/a Christian worldview. J. Warner Wallace and Sean McDowell will be back with us again tomorrow. We hope you can be back as well.<\/p>\n<p>I want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.<\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>We are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?<\/p>\n<p>Copyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2020 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a><\/p>\n<p>1<\/p>\n"],"duration":["00:27:42"],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["25.36M"],"filesize_raw":["26588908"],"_edit_lock":["1729794343:47000"],"_edit_last":["47000"],"theme_header_position":["Sticky"],"post_header_is_sticky":["default"],"is_header_overlay":["0"],"episode_type":["audio"],"date_recorded":["2020-06-03 07:00:08"],"enclosure":["https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2020-06-03.mp3"],"_seopress_redirections_type":["301"],"_seopress_redirections_logged_status":["both"],"_seopress_analysis_target_kw":[""],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-306067.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-306067.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: 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});\";s:18:\"current_block_list\";a:17:{i:0;s:14:\"core\/paragraph\";i:1;s:14:\"uagb\/container\";i:2;s:12:\"core\/heading\";i:3;s:9:\"core\/html\";i:4;s:10:\"core\/group\";i:7;s:21:\"uagb\/advanced-heading\";i:8;s:14:\"uagb\/separator\";i:9;s:14:\"uagb\/icon-list\";i:10;s:20:\"uagb\/icon-list-child\";i:11;s:11:\"core\/search\";i:14;s:18:\"core\/legacy-widget\";i:17;s:10:\"uagb\/image\";i:18;s:17:\"core\/social-links\";i:19;s:16:\"core\/social-link\";i:20;s:30:\"meta-box\/fl-conditional-blocks\";i:21;s:12:\"uagb\/buttons\";i:22;s:18:\"uagb\/buttons-child\";}s:8:\"uag_flag\";b:1;s:11:\"uag_version\";i:1778306671;s:6:\"gfonts\";a:1:{s:7:\"Default\";a:2:{s:10:\"fontfamily\";s:7:\"Default\";s:12:\"fontvariants\";a:0:{}}}s:10:\"gfonts_url\";s:71:\"\/\/fonts.googleapis.com\/css?family=Default&subset=latin&display=fallback\";s:12:\"gfonts_files\";a:0:{}s:14:\"uag_faq_layout\";b:0;}"]},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg",508,508,false]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"kfairris@familylife.com","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/kfairrisfamilylife-com\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"Sean McDowell and J. Warner Wallace realize this is a question on the heart of parents. While there are a lot of factors that lead to a child's thriving faith, hear what studies have shown to be the number one factor.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2020-06-03.pdf","transcript_content":"<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>What matters most to us, as parents, is how our kids are doing spiritually; that should matter most. What do we do when our kids just aren\u2019t connecting around faith? Here\u2019s J. Warner Wallace.<\/p>\n<p><strong>J. Warner: <\/strong>If you feel like right now your kids are simply\u2014they\u2019re in their teenage years, and they\u2019re resistant to the things of church; they\u2019ve dropped off in interest in going to church; you\u2019re having a harder time having spiritual conversations with them\u2014I get it; we\u2019ve all been there. Now is the time to build on the relationship side; because trust me, the time is coming when they will hear what you\u2019re saying from an informational perspective.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Wednesday, June 3<sup>rd<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I'm Bob Lepine. You can find us online at FamilyLifeToday.com. Taking kids through the teenage years can be turbulent; and when things aren\u2019t connecting around faith, it\u2019s easy to become anxious as parents. How do we deal with that? We\u2019ll talk more about that today. Stay with us.<\/p>\n<p>And welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. I have to think, as a pastor, you\u2019re talking to parents all the time who have anxiety about\u2014<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u2014everything!\u2014everything!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes, the culture we live in\u2014but their kids\u2014they\u2019re looking at their kids, and the trajectory they\u2019re seeing other kids go in, and they\u2019re thinking, \u201cAre my kids going to abandon, what we\u2019ve tried to teach them, first chance they get?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>I think every one of us sitting around this table probably feels that, because we\u2019re all parents.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>I can remember standing at the front window as my oldest 16-year-old drove away for the first time and just, number one, freaking out with anxiety, and then praying. Because you\u2019re watching: \u201cI no longer have control,\u201d\u2014like we ever did\u2014but you know, you\u2019re thinking, \u201cWow! This is a moment\/a transitional moment.\u201d That is not just driving a car; that\u2019s their faith\u2014you really wrestle with that as a parent.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>Moms\u2014this is heavy on the heart of every mom I know.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>These are the things that keep us moms awake at night.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>We think about this; we\u2019re fearful. I think this generation, especially, there are so many new things going on with social media\/with the culture that\u2019s changing. I think we\u2019re <em>afraid<\/em> of what will happen to our kids.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>She would grab me at night. You know, when you said that I was thinking\u2014she\u2019d be laying there; I\u2019d be sound asleep\u2014you know, we have teenagers or middle schoolers\u2014and she would grab me: \u201cThey\u2019re not going to believe in God in the next year!\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cOh, they\u2019re okay; there\u2019s no big deal. They\u2019re going to figure it out,\u201d\u2014right?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>Oh, I\u2019m worrying about school: I\u2019m worrying about their teachers, what the other peers are teaching them, the culture\u2014how it is affecting them. I would stay awake thinking about those things.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>We have a couple of guys joining us this week who are going to help us know how we can kind of take a deep breath, how we can get a strategy put together as parents, how we can be aware of what\u2019s going on, and be shrewd in the midst of this situation.<\/p>\n<p>These guys have been on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> before, but never together; so it\u2019s nice to have them side by side. Sean McDowell and J. Warner Wallace are with us; guys, welcome.<\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>Sean: <\/strong>Thanks for having us; yes, this is great.<\/p>\n<p><strong>J. Warner: <\/strong>Thanks for having us!<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>Sean is on the faculty of Biola University. J. Warner Wallace is a former L.A. police detective\/a cold case detective, who has, since coming to Christ, applied his police techniques to looking at the gospel record to show the evidence for the truth of Christianity. Last time you were here, we talked about <em>Cold-Case Christianity<\/em>\/the books that you\u2019ve written on that.<\/p>\n<p>The two of you worked together on a book that has just been released recently that\u2019s called <em>So the Next Generation Will Know<\/em>. A lot of this was borne\u2014J. Warner, you were a bad youth pastor; right? [Laughter]<\/p>\n<p><strong>J. Warner: <\/strong>Yes, it felt like it! [Laughter] I hate to say that; but when I got saved, I was about 35; and my kids were maybe in first and second grade. We\u2019re in a large church, and my kids did not want to sit in their children\u2019s ministry without our being with them. They\u2019d never been to church before, so they had never been dropped off at a children\u2019s ministry while we went to the big church. I would sit with them in their Sunday school class about every other week\u2014or Susie would, my wife\u2014and at some point, if you sit in class at a big church, and you\u2019re there every week, what\u2019s the next thing that\u2019s going to happen?\u2014\u201cWell, can you teach this class?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>J. Warner: <\/strong>We didn\u2019t know two things about Christianity, but they had a curriculum; so we started teaching. I just kind of followed my kids up; and as they got older, then I became the coordinator for fifth and sixth grade at this church, which was about 500 students in the fifth and sixth grades there. Then I became a youth pastor; and as my kids were in high school, I was their high school youth pastor.<\/p>\n<p>But that first year, I think every senior\u2014except for maybe one or two\u2014walked away from their faith before the first break of their freshman year. I thought, \u201cThis is my problem.\u201d But as I researched it, I realized this was pretty much common to a lot of youth pastors. Probably today, most of us don\u2019t track whether our kids\/our graduating seniors are still in the faith a year later. I bet if youth pastors tracked the departure rate of their graduating seniors, they would be pretty distressed.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014and would have to stop and say, \u201cDo we need to retool and recalibrate what we\u2019re doing?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>J. Warner: <\/strong>That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>Sean, you teach at Biola. You have taught high school students in a Christian high school. If parents are sending their kids to Christian schools, they don\u2019t need to worry about this stuff; right?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sean: <\/strong>Yes, that is definitely one of the stereotypes that I hear all the time. In fact, being at a Christian school, I kind of got the impression over awhile that parents would send their kids for me to fix them. I think a lot of people that send their kids to youth group and Christian schools are concerned with behavior: \u201cAs long as my kids aren\u2019t smoking, and drinking, and doing bad things, then I am fine.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>So yes, I deal with that. But I also think there are a lot of parents, like you mentioned, who are hungry, just saying: \u201cOkay, how do we really do this? What does it look like to raise up a generation, who embraces the faith, wants to live it out in this world that is just confused and upside-down and has pressures, one click away, every moment of their lives?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>So you guys sat down and said, \u201cWe want to write something,\u201d\u2014not only to help the church and help youth pastors; because, you know, as a pastor, I find the same thing as you did as a Christian schoolteacher\u2014they\u2019re sending their kids to our church and sort of stepping back, like, \u201cOkay, you got them; you\u2019ll train them.\u201d But then, at some point, I think there is an intensity that comes to their lives, like, \u201cI need to be a part of this.\u201d So you sat down and said, \u201cWe have to help them.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>J. Warner: <\/strong>Well, and this was Sean\u2019s idea; he came to me. We both teach at Biola; and we have a program there\/a master\u2019s program in apologetics. We recognized that, if we could just get youth pastors to embrace a more evidential approach with their students, it would probably answer about 80 percent of what young people say is the reason why they are stepping out of the church for a season.<\/p>\n<p>They usually offer some kind of objection or some kind of unanswered question, which is based in evidence; you know: \u201cHow do I reconcile the evil I see in the world with the existence of God?\u201d \u201cHow do I\u2026\u201d It\u2019s about 70 percent evidence stuff\/factual claims of Christianity; about 30 percent relational. He [Sean] said, \u201cWe could write a book that maybe youth pastors would embrace and learn how to teach this Christian worldview to young people.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I thought, \u201cWell, if we can expand this to Christian educators and parents,\u201d\u2014I think that\u2019s really where the core; both of us have done all three of those jobs, right?\u2014I think that\u2019s really the group that I think has the most weight-carrying in terms of young people and preparing them for the next season of life: it\u2019s going to be parents, youth pastors, and Christian educators.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sean: <\/strong>I think what we didn\u2019t want to do is give parents: \u201cHere\u2019s a new curriculum\/here\u2019s a new program. You become an expert at this and pass it on to your kids.\u201d Parents don\u2019t have time; they\u2019re busy; they have stuff going on.<\/p>\n<p>Our approach was not to do that. It was to say, \u201cOkay, how can we help those, who are gate-keepers to students\/the most important influencers in their lives?\u201d\u2014it could be a mentor, could be a teacher, could be a coach\u2014\u201cHow do we help them more effectively use the opportunities that are already there, in a gospel kind of manner, to just teach them to embrace and live out the faith?\u201d It\u2019s not so much adding something new; but it\u2019s saying, \u201cLet\u2019s look a little bit more strategically at opportunities that are right in front of us if we have the perspective to look for them\u2014for ways to shape the thinking of this generation.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>J. Warner: <\/strong>That\u2019s a huge point, too; because if I had to read a book, as a parent\u2014again, that\u2019s going to tell me: number one, \u201cHere are all the things you\u2019ve been doing wrong,\u201d\u2014[Laughter]\u2014I already get that! I don\u2019t need another book to tell me that. Number two, \u201cHere\u2019s a bunch of new stuff you have no time to do,\u201d\u2014I don\u2019t think we\u2019re going to make any progress with either of these three groups, so we haven\u2019t done that. We actually say, \u201cHey, let\u2019s leverage what you\u2019re <em>already<\/em> doing, make some subtle tweaks, and see what happens.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>I think there is a big thesis in this book\u2014that you have to catch this at the very beginning or you\u2019re going to miss the whole thing\u2014and that is, the foundation on which you build a worldview, and truth, and evidence is a foundation of relationship. That\u2019s where you\u2014you talked about 70 percent evidence and 30 percent relationship\u2014if moms and dads aren\u2019t cultivating a healthy, strong relationship with their kids, all the evidence training and all of the apologetics isn\u2019t going to wash with them; is it?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sean: <\/strong>Here\u2019s the reality: I work with a lot of youth pastors, and I work with a lot of teachers and apologists. Apologists tend to say: \u201cThis generation\u2014they need truth; they need arguments. Give them the facts.\u201d As a whole, youth pastors tend to say, \u201cWe have to build relationships with them\/experiences.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I\u2019m looking at both, saying, \u201cActually, they\u2019re <em>both<\/em> true; we need both. Jesus came in grace and He came in truth.\u201d The book has truths in there to teach to the next generation; but it\u2019s all through the lens of relationship, which is why each chapter is: \u201cLove Begins,\u201d \u201cLove Trains,\u201d \u201cLove Equips.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>To kind of frame it: when you think about it, when God chooses to communicate with us\u2014yes, He sent an angel; yes, He sent a book; yes, He sent prophecy and prophets; et cetera\u2014but to ultimately reveal Himself was through His Son in person\/in relationship. Paul says to the church at Thessalonica, \u201cWe not only gave you the gospel\u201d\u2014which is truth\u2014\u201cwe gave you our very own lives.\u201d We have to do <em>both<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>J. Warner: <\/strong>That should be encouraging for parents; it should be. I think part of the thing we see is, as parents are: \u201cHow do I solve this problem? My kids are coming to me with questions that I\u2019m not really prepared to answer.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Well, it turns out that this combination of relationship and truth is tied at the hip. You will be the most influential with any claim you make if it starts with the relationship. So parents, we have relationships. Hopefully, you know\u2014remember when your kids were in elementary school?\u2014that was probably the most influence I ever had on my kids, as a parent; right? As they get a little bit older, they kind of find other authorities that they rely on for certain sources of information.<\/p>\n<p>Well, you happen to have all the relationship you need to get this done. But when they come to you with a question, if you don\u2019t have that answer, then they\u2019re going to go some place to get that answer. They\u2019ll settle for a less than relationship with you to get their answer\u2014online, somebody they know at school, a teacher\u2014whatever it may be.<\/p>\n<p>I just think what we need to do is help ourselves to say, \u201cWe\u2019re going to build those relationships.\u201d It\u2019s not an either\/or; it\u2019s a both\/and.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sean: <\/strong>By the way, at the beginning of the book, there\u2019s a chapter\u2014Jim has done some pretty remarkable research on this, finding all the studies over the past\/really, going into Millennials, of why kids leave the faith\u2014there\u2019s a range of studies that give different factors.<\/p>\n<p>Well, one of the studies that really stood out to me as perhaps the most significant study, if I had to pick one; it\u2019s by a USC professor named Vern Bengtson; he\u2019s a sociologist. They studied 3500 people\u201435 years\/4 generations\u2014from kids to great-grandparents, simply asking the question\u2014not just Christians, but any faith\u2014\u201cWhat are the most important factors for faith transmission?\u201d They published it in 2013 with Oxford.<\/p>\n<p>Their conclusion, after all this research, was there are a lot of factors in influence; but number one was \u201cwarm relationship with the father\u201d\u2014number <em>one<\/em>, statistically. That doesn\u2019t make mothers unimportant. The reality is: fathers tend to be more of a wild card; the moms tend to be there more. But just statistical research\u2014that relationship, like you said, is at the heart of it\u2014that <em>drives<\/em> the book for us.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>Answer this\u2014if I\u2019m listening right now, and I\u2019m a dad who hears that and goes: \u201cOh no; I don\u2019t have that. I had it when they were little kids\/little daughter or son. He\u2019s 15, 16, 17; he\u2019s pulling away. I\u2019ve made some bad mistakes with him\/with her. Man, that\u2019s the number-one thing, I just heard, \u2018a warm relationship,\u2019 but I\u2019m going, \u2018My daughter would say, \u201cI don\u2019t have that with my dad,\u201d or \u2018My son\u2026\u201d\u2014talk to that dad: \u201cI don\u2019t know what to do. How do I transmit this?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sean: <\/strong>The first thing I would say is what sets Christianity apart is grace. It\u2019s not going to do any good to beat yourself up. I understand regret; I understand the pain. But you know what? That\u2019s where God\u2019s grace comes in and covers that. Just start where you are; start where you are.<\/p>\n<p>The last chapter\u2019s entitled \u201cLove Begins.\u201d I simply say, shortly: \u201cLook, there are probably a ton of ideas here. Don\u2019t feel like you have to do everything. Find one thing you can do to start advancing the ball, so to speak.\u201d Maybe it\u2019s just calling his daughter more; maybe it\u2019s going to a meal; maybe it\u2019s saying: \u201cCan I take you out for a meal? Can I share with you? I just want to be honest with you; I realized I failed, as a dad, and I want to do better. Help me be a better dad.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Man, in 99-plus percent of cases\u2014it might take awhile; it might not be easy\u2014but kids yearn for that relationship with a father; they want it. If you\u2019re willing to stick with it\u2014humble yourself\u2014and anything is possible with God.<\/p>\n<p><strong>J. Warner: <\/strong>There was a study in 2018 from someone named Jana Magruder and Ben Trueblood, called \u201cNothing Less: Engaging Kids in a Lifetime of Faith.\u201d What\u2019s so interesting about this\u2014what we\u2019re just talking about is at the center of it. Parents, who had a better retention rate for their young people, who stayed in the faith\/who embraced the faith that they were raised in, they looked at them and said, \u201cWhat are their characteristics?\u201d They identified nine characteristics of parents, who behave in a certain way, and end up having the results with their kids staying in the faith. But right in the middle was asking forgiveness when they messed up as parents. It\u2019s just this kind of transparency we\u2019re talking about.<\/p>\n<p>I mean, statistically, we know that\u2019s even true from studies and surveys we do with parents\u2014who are actually, at least, repentant\u2014\u201cHow do you say, \u2018No,\u2019 to this, if someone is actually that vulnerable?\u201d I\u2019m sure that we\u2019re going to see a spectrum of responses from kids and parents; but that is such\u2014that kind of humility is\u2014I think opens the door to conversations about the gospel.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>I would just say, \u201cThank you,\u201d\u2014what you guys just gave us. I mean, I would say to that dad and that mom listening right now, at the end of this broadcast: \u201cToday\u2019s your day. I mean, the word, \u2018It\u2019s never too late,\u2019\u2014what a powerful word\u2014asking forgiveness and walking in there. I\u2019ve had to do that as a dad\u2014walk in their and say, \u2018I\u2019ve blown it.\u2019\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I always want to put that conversation till tomorrow, or a week later, or a decade later; and when you miss that moment, you miss it. I\u2019m just saying to the dad <em>and<\/em> the mom: \u201cRight now, today\u2019s your day. It isn\u2019t too late. Yes, the relationship isn\u2019t where you want it to be, but today could\u2014walk in that room tonight; send that email; make the phone call\u2014whatever it takes. This is the day to start the relationship which is going to end in incredible fruit.\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ann: <\/strong>I don\u2019t think that\u2019s easy, because our kids can pull away; and they don\u2019t always give us the response that we\u2019re hoping. I know that, as teenagers, my boys were pulling away\u2014our boys were more quiet\u2014so we would try to pull in. I think when we feel that rejection, as a parent, we\u2019re like, \u201cOh; see, they really don\u2019t want to be with me.\u201d But I think they do.<\/p>\n<p>As you guys were talking about the dad, I\u2019m thinking of all the moms listening, thinking: \u201cSee? It\u2019s my husband\u2019s fault!\u201d [Laughter] So even as moms\u2014maybe our husbands aren\u2019t as involved, even spiritually or relationally\u2014how can we encourage our husbands, as wives, to get more involved? Even as moms, how do we not get our feelings hurt when our teens push us away?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sean: <\/strong>Those are two great questions. I would say, with a husband, what <em>not<\/em> to do is to point <em>all<\/em> the wrong things that the husband is doing. I would like to say that I\u2019m humble and I\u2019d take it like a champ; but my wife rightly points out things, and just my defenses come up. But when my wife comes to me and goes: \u201cYou know, that time you spend with Shane\u2014do you realize how <em>powerful<\/em> that was in his life? I <em>love<\/em> seeing you do that. I know you want to be a good dad.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>We have to be careful not to be manipulative\u2014that\u2019s not my point\u2014but to <em>find<\/em> the positive and praise it. There might be a time, where you go: \u201cYou know what? Do you realize what you did?\u2014I love you, and I\u2019m going to speak truth to you,\u201d\u2014but being encouraging and being positive, and helping him see how powerful his voice is, and that he can do it.<\/p>\n<p>I think any man, who would be the kind of father that would do it\u2014that doesn\u2019t have other issues he needs to deal with\u2014would probably respond to a loving, supportive wife that believes in him like that. I think we\u2019re wired that way: when my wife gets behind me and gets excited, it just energizes me. That\u2019s probably where I would start with the husband.<\/p>\n<p><strong>J. Warner: <\/strong>I just had an experience last weekend I want to share with you, though. I was at my dad\u2019s 80<sup>th<\/sup> birthday. It was kind of a family reunion. My dad remarried; he has six children from his second marriage, and they\u2019re still married. All these six kids came together to celebrate my dad\u2019s birthday. I kind of got surprised; he thought it was a family reunion; \u201cIt\u2019s actually for your birthday, Dad.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I came in a day late, because I live further away. When I got there, they had recorded video messages that they played on the night of the big party to my dad. I\u2019m listening to each of his children. Now, I can tell you, this was a hectic upbringing; that I thought, from watching from the outside, looking in, I was like, \u201cThis is crazy what\u2019s going on.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>But I will tell you that every story from my half-brothers and -sisters, as they were describing my dad, started with something my dad did in which he took, from his family of six, he would grab that one child and take them, isolated\/one on one, and do something, repeatedly. All of their memories and the influence he has had on them comes from this one-on-one time he had spent.<\/p>\n<p>I thought, \u201cEvery young dad should have to go to the 80<sup>th<\/sup> birthday party of a dad, who has this kind of\u201d\u2014just so they can hear this. If I\u2019d have known that, going in\u2014I would have realized this relationship between relationships and truth\u2014it\u2019s in those conversations, where you\u2019re just on a one on one, that you remember doing with your dad, that\u2019s where you have these kinds of conversations; right?<\/p>\n<p>My dad\u2019s not a believer; I wasn\u2019t raised in a believing home. Now, for a lot of years, I knew that he was not going to hear any of the information I wanted to share with him about the gospel; it was bouncing off like Teflon<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>. I spent a lot of time in that 20 years sharing gospel claims with him.<\/p>\n<p>Last year, I decided to leverage the relationship I had with him to get him to consider the claim. My best presentation of what I believe about God to my dad occurred on the road\u2014on the way to Jefferson, Texas\u2014to get barbecue. That\u2019s where that conversation\u2014I thought it was a breakthrough conversation.<\/p>\n<p>I would say to parents: \u201cIf you feel like right now your kids are simply\u2014they\u2019re in their teenage years, and they\u2019re resistant to the things of church; they\u2019ve dropped off in interest in going to church; you\u2019re having a harder time, maybe, having spiritual conversations with them\u2014I get it; we\u2019ve all been there. Now is the time to build on the relationship side; because trust me, the time is coming when they will hear what you\u2019re saying from an informational perspective.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Sean: <\/strong>When I was teaching high school full time at a Christian school, I had a student come to me after class. He goes, \u201cHey, Mr. McDowell, what do I have to do to get a C-minus in your class?\u201d [Laughter] Talk about, \u201cI really don\u2019t care; I need to do the <em>minimum<\/em>.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I said, \u201cWhy do you want a C-minus?\u201d He goes, \u201cWell, that\u2019s what I need for my mom and dad to allow me to have a car.\u201d I said, \u201cOkay, here\u2019s what you need to do\u2026\u201d\u2014I mean, sweet kid; didn\u2019t mean it, but just would sit in the back and do the minimal. Graduates; the next year, he comes back and wants to sit in my class. He goes, \u201cHey, can I sit in and observe?\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cSure!\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I come to him after class; I\u2019m like: \u201cWhat is going on? You wanted a C-minus; now you want to sit and observe. What happened?\u201d He goes: \u201cWell, I\u2019m at the junior college. My professors are like, \u2018Evolution is true; God doesn\u2019t exist. The Bible has contradictions.\u2019\u201d He goes, \u201cNow, all of a sudden, I realize this is important.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I said to him, \u201cWhat could I have done differently to help you get that in high school?\u201d He looks at me and he goes, \u201cOh, nothing.\u201d He goes, \u201cI just wasn\u2019t there spiritually, but you made more of a difference than you realize.\u201d That\u2019s what parents have to remember.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>I think that\u2019s so important; because I think the mom or the dad that does what we\u2019ve talked about here today\u2014the dad, who sits down and says: \u201cI\u2019ve not been the parent I should be, and I want to ask your forgiveness. I want to be a better dad,\u201d and the kid rolls his eyes and says, \u201cYes, whatever,\u201d\u2014you walk out there, as a dad, and you go, \u201cThat didn\u2019t do any good\u201d; that made more of a difference than you know.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Bob: <\/strong>So don\u2019t buy the rolling of the eyes. Don\u2019t think they\u2019re not listening; they are. God\u2019s at work in the midst of that. Don\u2019t get discouraged; don\u2019t become weary in well-doing\u2014Galatians 6; right?\u2014keep sowing. At the appropriate time, you will reap if you do not faint and give up.<\/p>\n<p>I think moms and dads are going to be really encouraged by what you guys have written in your book, <em>So the Next Generation Will Know: Preparing Young Christians for a Challenging World.<\/em> There\u2019s both a book and there\u2019s a participant guide. If you want to go through this with other moms and dads, it\u2019s a great guide to take you through eight sessions on this topic.<\/p>\n<p>We have both the book and the participant guide in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. Go online at FamilyLifeToday.com to get your copy of the book or the participant guide; or you can call to order: 1-800-FL-TODAY is our number. Again, our website is FamilyLifeToday.com; the number to call to get the book, <em>So the Next Generation Will Know<\/em>, or the participant guide\u2014call 1-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>You know, I think what we\u2019ve talked about has to be at the top of most parents\u2019 lists of things that they\u2019re concerned about: \u201cThe faith of the next generation\u2014whether young people today\/teenagers, young adults, young married couples\u2014\u2018Are they going to stay anchored in the Scriptures\/are they going to continue to believe the Bible? Are they going to hold to what God\u2019s Word has to say, not just about marriage and family, but about everything in life?\u2019\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Here, at FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, we are burdened by that as well. As we put programs together, like the program you\u2019ve been listening to today, our hope is that we\u2019re helping to equip grandparents and moms and dads with the kind of practical biblical help we need so that we can engage with our children and grandchildren around issues of faith and around the issues they\u2019re facing in life. <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is all about providing practical biblical help and hope for marriages and families.<\/p>\n<p>As you help support this ministry, you\u2019re helping us reach more people, more often, with this kind of practical biblical help and hope. This has been a difficult few months for many ministries, for many businesses, for many families; we recognize that\u2019s the case. Those of you, who are able to be generous right now, just know that your generosity is very much appreciated and very much needed these days. So thanks for reaching out to us. You can donate online at FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can call to donate: 1-800-FL-TODAY is our number. Again, thanks in advance for whatever you\u2019re able to do in support of the ministry.<\/p>\n<p>Now, tomorrow, we want to talk about technology and how that presents a fresh challenge for us, as parents, trying to raise our kids with a biblical way of thinking\/a Christian worldview. J. Warner Wallace and Sean McDowell will be back with us again tomorrow. We hope you can be back as well.<\/p>\n<p>I want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.<\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>We are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?<\/p>\n<p>Copyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2020 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a><\/p>\n<p>1<\/p>\n","theme_header_position":"Sticky","post_header_is_sticky":"default","is_header_overlay":"0"},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/306067","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=306067"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=306067"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=306067"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=306067"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=306067"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=306067"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=306067"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}