{"id":306022,"date":"2020-05-20T07:00:05","date_gmt":"2020-05-20T11:00:05","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/time-for-camp\/"},"modified":"2020-05-20T07:00:05","modified_gmt":"2020-05-20T11:00:05","slug":"time-for-camp","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/time-for-camp\/","title":{"rendered":"Time for Camp!"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>Guest: Susan Yates | Series: Cousin&#8217;s Camp | Author and speaker Susan Yates and her husband, John, who are parents of five adult children, have been hosting their grandchildren at Cousin&#8217;s Camp each summer for over a decade, And they say, the memories they&#8217;ve made have been worth the effort. Desiring that all the cousins (21 total) would get to know each other, the Yates began hosting the week-long family camp at their farm. And now it&#8217;s one of their favorite family traditions. Yates offers some simple, practical tips for hosting your own family camp.<\/p>\n<p>Show Notes and Resources<\/p>\n<p> \tDownload &#8220;Camp at Home: 100 Practical Ideas for Families&#8221; from Susan Yates&#8217; book Cousin Camp.\u00a0 https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/camp-at-home-ideas\/<br \/>\n \tFind resources from this podcast at https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/Products.aspx?categoryid=95.<br \/>\n \tCheck out all that&#8217;s available on the FamilyLife Podcast Network.\u00a0 https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/familylife-podcast-network\/<br \/>\n \tHave the FamilyLife Today\u00ae podcast and resources helped you?\u00a0 Consider becoming a Legacy Partner, a monthly supporter of FamilyLife.\u00a0https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/legacy<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Susan Yates and her husband have been hosting their grandchildren at Cousin&#8217;s Camp each summer for over a decade. They say, the memories they&#8217;ve made have been worth the effort. Susan offers some simple, practical tips for hosting your own family camp.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2020-05-20.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:29:03","filesize":"26.6M","filesize_raw":"27887504","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2856,2833,10379,2891],"tags":[6906],"podcast_series":[8360],"cwp_profile":[3057],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-306022","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-adult-children","category-godly-legacy","category-grandparents","category-making-memories","tag-family-camp","podcast_series-cousins-camp","cwp_profile-susan-yates","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/306022\/time-for-camp","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/306022\/time-for-camp","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"AkwjUmVFqt\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/time-for-camp\/\">Time for Camp!<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/time-for-camp\/embed\/#?secret=AkwjUmVFqt\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Time for Camp!&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"AkwjUmVFqt\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2020-05-20.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2020-05-20.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Or maybe just\u2014\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> No parents allowed.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Really?\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> Really.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Can we send our kids or our grandkids?\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> You can start one. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Susan Yates is here, joining us on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. We were just talking about the number of times you\u2019ve been here. Welcome back; so good to have you here.\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> Oh, it\u2019s great to be back. Thanks.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Susan is a writer\/a speaker. She and her husband\u2014everybody knows him as John\u2014except she calls him Johnny, so I kind of feel like I should call him Johnny too. [Laughter] They live in suburban Washington, DC, where for many years, he was the senior pastor\/the rector at the Falls Church in Virginia.\n\nYou guys have been doing this event with your grandkids for a while now, but you\u2019ve just written down what it is you\u2019re doing in a new book about Cousin Camp. When did all of this get started?\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> Well, we started Cousin Camp almost 12 years ago with 5 grandchildren from 3 different families. We have five kids, and they are all married, and they are all scattered. One of the things we\u2019ve wanted is for our grandchildren to know one another and to have significant time together; so we thought, \u201cOne of the ways we could do this was to bring them together for three days and two nights in the summer and just run a camp.\u201d Also, we simply wanted to be able to have the children without their parents and to be able to have some sort of an input into their lives.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So how old were your grandkids at this point when you had your first Cousin Camp?\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> Our first Cousin Camp, I think, we had a seven-year-old, two five-year-olds, and a four-year-old, and maybe an eight-year-old.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Okay; this just sounds <em>exhausting<\/em> to me\u2014what you just described. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> It is! [Laughter]\u00a0 In all honesty, it\u2019s the most exhausting four days of our life every year.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> But you invited an eight-year-old, seven-year-old, four-year-old, five-year-old: \u201cCome to our house and spend the week with us.\u201d\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> No; it\u2019s not a week. [Laughter] The key is to start small.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Okay.\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> The first year we did it\u2014it was two nights and three days. Then, after that, we changed it to three nights and four days. It\u2019s always been, since the first year, three nights and four days.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> But your family has grown, too; right?\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It isn\u2019t just a few now.\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> No; it\u2019s 21 now\u2014[Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s a lot.\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> \u2014which is kind of crazy.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> How did your kids feel about not being invited?\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> Oh, they were thrilled! [Laughter] Quite honestly, they are <em>thrilled<\/em>; because we have\u2014from the beginning, a wise friend of mine, who was ten years ahead of me\/sort of my camp mentor\u2014suggested: \u201cDon\u2019t let them come until they are four; because when you have four-year-olds, you\u2019re not dealing with the two-year-old and three-year-old temper tantrums. You\u2019re not dealing with kids being up at night. Mostly, they sleep through the night.\u201d\n\nThis is not right for everybody. I have\/we have a lot of friends who do it differently; but for us, this made sense. To come to Cousin Camp, you have to wait until you are four. Our adult children are <em>thrilled<\/em> when their last child reaches four, and they can drop their kids off at camp and leave. They go on a honeymoon. We feel like it benefits our adult kids, giving them time alone, without their children, while we\u2019re basically taking care of the kids.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Back at the beginning of this, were you thinking, \u201cThis is going to be all fun and games with the kids,\u201d or did you have\u2014how did you have the three days\/two nights apportioned?\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> Well, we\u2019ve always had a schedule; it takes a lot of planning. We have a morning Bible study time; we have activities. We make out, months ahead, a detailed schedule. Now, the schedule can be thrown out at any moment, because you have to be flexible; and when something doesn\u2019t work, or you need to change gears, you change gears.\n\nEvery year, it\u2019s a little bit different; but the basic schedule stays the same with different elements put in depending on what worked last year and what didn\u2019t and \u201cWhat are the age of the kids this year?\u201d because needs in families and needs in life change year to year. We\u2019re not static; we\u2019re always growing and changing. You have to adapt your plans to the changes.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> If you started with an eight-year-old and you\u2019re twelve years in now, you\u2019ve got a nineteen\/twenty-year-old today.\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> Yes, 20-year-old.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Is that child still coming to Cousin Camp?\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> Oh, she <em>loves<\/em> it.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Really?!\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> Yes; as a matter of fact, she wrote a blog. I printed it in the book\u2014her reflections in the first chapter on being the eldest at Cousin Camp and the exhaustion she experienced, but also the fun, and the hope she wouldn\u2019t disappear from these cousins\u2019 lives as she went off to college but that she would remain a part of it. Now, she\u2019s unusual; so I don\u2019t know if it had been a boy, if he would have responded that way; but the next one in line is a boy.\n\nI think one the things that we\u2019ve been very intentional in doing, throughout the 11 years, is turning over the leadership of camp to the older cousins; because the older kids speak <em>volumes<\/em> into the little people. That is just a <em>tremendous<\/em> influence. We\u2019ve intentionally turned, each year, more and more of the activities, the leadership, the Bible studies, the sharing time over to the bigger cousins.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So give me a sample day.\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> Okay.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> What is a day at Cousin Camp look like?\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> You\u2019re up; you have breakfast. You have a little quiet-time Bible study. Each year at camp, the newbies\u2014which is what we call the new ones for their first year at camp when they are four\u2014they get a journal\u2014just a journal that I have glued a picture of the child on\/that I have developed just a picture. We make a big presentation over presenting the journals. These journals live at our place; they don\u2019t go home because they\u2019d just get lost. They live at our place; so, year to year, the kids add to the journals as they come back.\n\nThey pull the journals out for Bible study, and Bible study is short; you know, it\u2019s 30 minutes\/35 minutes. It\u2019s\u2014we have a theme for the camp or a special verse. John, my husband, leads the Bible study usually. The first thing we do is share testimonies, and we take the kids through the gospel. If they haven\u2019t given their life to Christ, we give them an opportunity. It\u2019s not pushy at all, but it\u2019s just natural. Again, I think the naturalness flows from being the grandparent and not the parent.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So do you live in like a mansion, where\u2014\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> No, no, no. [Laughter] Absolutely not; no. We have a little farm out in the country; that\u2019s where we have camp. We also have neighbors, who share their space with us when the whole family comes in, which is at the end of camp; but basically, the kids sleep all over. We usually have three on the floor in our bedroom. We have two in the closet. Camp is never really about getting great sleep; it\u2019s about togetherness\u2014\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> \u2014sleeping bags, couches, floors.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So I\u2019m up to lunch time right now. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> We forgot; didn\u2019t we? [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We still have a half day.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I mean, I\u2019m the guy that\u2014I\u2019m a seven-year-old, and I\u2019m in your house. I\u2019m at camp; so I\u2019m excited to know: \u201cWhat else happens?\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Wait; what\u2019s for lunch?\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> What\u2019s for lunch?\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Because I\u2019m thinking\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014and who\u2019s cooking it?\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> Okay; food is not a big deal. I mean, we are simple: paper plates, paper napkins, mac and cheese, sandwiches, hamburgers, hot dogs, chicken nuggets. Camp is <em>not<\/em> about food.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Okay.\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> So you release that pressure right off the bat.\n\nAfter Bible study, we always have an activity; it may be a giant hide-and-seek game. There is always an event\u2014a scavenger hunt or an obstacle course. We have a time where we go berry picking at a nearby orchard or swimming in our pond. We have a craft session. We do have a rest hour, because John and I would die if we didn\u2019t\u2014[Laughter]\u2014where the kids also need to learn how to entertain themselves\u2014not that they are entertained all the time.\n\nThat\u2019s kind of the flow of the day or these blocks of time, which what we do in them changes according to the ages of the kids; and then supper and then activities after dinner.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And the kids throughout the day\u2014do you have discipline issues? Do you have whiny, [screaming] tantrum-throwing kids?\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> Oh, yes; it\u2019s not normal if you don\u2019t.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> They are kids. I remember, one summer\u2014we have three granddaughters, who are approximately the same age; and two ganged up on the third and said, \u201cYou can\u2019t play with us.\u201d They were basically just being mean girls. I had to take them aside and say, \u201cThis is not acceptable, and this is why...\u201d I just simply explained it to them and said, \u201cYou do need to play together.\u201d\n\nI remember, on another occasion, one of the grandsons was just really being ugly to another cousin. He\u2019s very strong-willed, and I couldn\u2019t handle him; so I said, \u201cHoney, you need to handle this one.\u201d A lot goes into how we work together as a team, and my husband was going to be better at handling <em>that<\/em> grandson than I was.\n\nThere is a lot that goes into this. I talk about this in the book\u2014about how you work together in your marriage, giving your specific gift sets so that you are completing one another, and backing one another up, and not really competing with each other; but yes, you\u2019re going to have arguments.\n\nAnd one of the things that I\u2019ve learned is you have to be flexible with your schedule. Where are we flexible, and where do we hold fast?\u2014so this is the guiding principle on that: We are flexible when we need to change course because of events, but we hold fast when it\u2019s a character issue. These two incidents with the grandson and the two mean girls were character issues, so we have to be firm on that.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; John, I guess, takes the week off from work or the four days off\u2014whatever it is\u2014he is full-hands on deck with this.\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> He\u2019s full-hands on deck; but you know, here again, it\u2019s sort of: \u201cWhat is your situation, professionally, and in your marriage?\u201d Because all of the years we\u2019ve been doing this, my husband has been the senior pastor of a large church. He\u2019s exhausted and doesn\u2019t have the time, and I\u2019m more of the planner. I\u2019ve done more of the planning; but then, I set it up so that he\u2019s up front leading the stuff more than I am; but we do it together. Yes, he has to take time off. Boy, after it is over, we are <em>dead<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Parents come in at the end, right?\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> Right; the way we\u2019ve worked it is we go right from Cousin Camp into Family Camp, where all our kids and the little ones, that are not yet four, come in for three more days.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Have there been years when the soccer team or the work schedule for the kids\u2014something has kept some of the cousins from being able to come to Cousin Camp?\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> No; one year, we had\u2014one of our families was on a missions\u2019 trip in Africa, so they couldn\u2019t come. Then, one year, one of my daughters, who is a twin, has quadruplets; so they didn\u2019t come for a year, because it was just too crazy. We put it on the calendar way ahead. What\u2019s been tricky is the school system is getting out at different times.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> What would the Yates family be without it? Can you picture your legacy or how you would be relating to your grandkids if you didn\u2019t have Cousin Camp?\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> Wow; you know, I don\u2019t think you ever really know your legacy. I think the cousins would not have the relationships that they do\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> \u2014that would be a big thing. We\u2019ve had the opportunity to share Christ just very naturally and specifically with the kids. We\u2019ve had the opportunity to see the older kids build into the younger kids and, also, to give our adult children a little breath of fresh air, not having their kids for those few days. I wouldn\u2019t presume to know what the legacy is; I don\u2019t know.\n\nLet me just say this: I think, as parents and grandparents, we live with so much guilt and so much \u201cI ought to have\u2026\u201d or \u201cI shouldn\u2019t have\u2026\u201d; and if we\u2019re really honest, every one of us feels like we\u2019ve ruined our children over and over again; or we\u2019ve ruined our grandchildren over and over again. I think what we have to realize is our ability to ruin our children is not nearly as great as God\u2019s power to redeem them. That\u2019s just been a really comforting thought to me, because I\u2019m only going to mess up; I\u2019m going to mess up.\n\nOne of the things we stress in our family is the importance of forgiveness. I think it\u2019s probably the most single most important ingredient in the family.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You continue to have interaction with the kids all year long. I\u2019m sure your few days with them in the summer is catalytic for you to be able to continue that communication throughout the year with them.\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> It is; but Bob, you know, in all honesty, I am <em>not<\/em> a great grandmother in terms of communicating. There is so many other grandparents who do it so much better than I do. I\u2019m not techie; but I have friends who are grandparents who Skype, regularly, with their grandchildren.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Well, you have <em>21<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s not easy.\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> That\u2019s not easy, so I don\u2019t do any of that. It all depends on your situation. That\u2019s why Cousin Camp has been pivotal for us, because I don\u2019t feel like I\u2019m as good as a lot of my friends with the day in and day out communication during the year.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019ve got to tell you\u2014hearing you talk about Cousin Camp\u2014honestly, I\u2019m like, \u201cI am such a bad grandfather.\u201d [Laughter] Oh my goodness! We haven\u2019t done anything. Although we\u2019ve done a pretty good job of Skype-ing and that kind of thing; but it\u2019s inspiring to think, \u201cWe can do this.\u201d I mean, that\u2019s one of the great things when I was reading about what you do\u2014it\u2019s like, \u201cThis is doable.\u201d\n\nI really think\u2014that\u2019s why I asked you the question, \u201cWhat would the Wilson family be without it?\u201d It\u2019s sort of where we are now: \u201cWhat could it look like if we added this?\u201d\u2014\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014you know, with the cousins knowing each other?\n\nPart of it is probably my broken family\u2014didn\u2019t know my dad well; didn\u2019t know my dad\u2019s parents; didn\u2019t know my brothers; know none of my cousins; <em>never<\/em> did we ever do this. For somebody like me, it\u2019s like, \u201cOh, this is a new way to think about grandparenting,\u201d\u2014not only did I want to change the legacy as a dad\u2014but now, as a grandparent, I can impact that through all of my kids\u2019 kids and cousins; it\u2019s: \u201cWow!\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think the thing that inspired me, too, Susan is\u2014one, as a grandmother, I want to <em>know<\/em> my grandkids; but it\u2019s really hard to do that when they don\u2019t live in the same city.\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> It is.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> So you come up with a different way to plan. I am so inspired by this; because it\u2019s in your book, where you have the names of each child, their needs, the goals, and the program. Talk about that. How did you come up with that? And is this important to preplan what you are going to be doing and why with each child?\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> In all honesty, we didn\u2019t come up with this ourselves. This is a philosophical approach, really, to ministry and family life that we learned from an old pastor friend and his wife, who taught us; and basically, I see this in our life.\n\nSo often, our goal is to have an event that\u2019s successful. Then we\/it\u2019s done, and we are sort of are grateful; but the reality is to just plan an event for the sake of an event is missing the mark. We need to think, \u201cOkay; what do we want to have happen <em>after<\/em> the event or as a result of the event?\u201d\n\nYou change how you approach an event, or ministry, or really anything in life; and you begin to ask the questions: \u201cOkay; who do we want to come to the event?\u201d\u2014which, in this case, is our grandchildren; or other types of family reunions, which I also talk about in the book. We write down the names of the people coming: \u201cWhat are their needs?\u201d\u2014what are their needs in five areas of growth?\u2014\u201cWhat are their needs spiritually, mentally, physically, emotionally, and socially?\u201d That\u2019s just a grid we think through.\n\nLike a four-year-old: \u201cOkay, Mac is coming as a newbie this year; he is four. He doesn\u2019t know all of his cousins; he is emotionally\u2014he needs to feel safe; he needs to feel like he can get to know them. Physically, he\u2019s going to probably need to take a nap, because he is going to get worn out. Spiritually, has he really given his life to Christ?\u201d\n\nWe think through this grid for each of the kids each year. Then we plan the program based on the needs and goals rather than just planning a program that people are going to have fun, but it\u2019s not going to have any <em>lasting<\/em> impact.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019m guessing, from what you said, you do a lot of that planning yourself.\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> Well, we just sat with a list of the kids\u2014John and I sit with a list of the kids, several months out, and say, \u201cOkay; what do we notice about each of these kids?\u201d Sometimes, we don\u2019t know, Dave\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> \u2014so we have to get input from the parents.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> We <em>always<\/em> do this before camp: \u201cOkay, tell us about your child this year. What are his gifts?\u201d There is a proverb that says, \u201cKnow well the condition of your flocks.\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> I take that as a mandate to study my kids and to study my grandkids so that I will know their condition. We go to the parents, and we say: \u201cOkay, give us a cheat sheet; because we don\u2019t see you that often. Tell us what one of Mimi\u2019s\u2014what\u2019s her passion? Is she into art? Is she a reader? Is she into sports? What are her gifts that you see?\u2014and how can we fan the flame in those gifts?\u201d or \u201cWhat are your concerns? Is there a child that you are\u2014who might be anxious at camp?\u201d\u2014we need to know that up front\u2014\u201cHow can we comfort this child?\u201d\n\nWhen the kids are little, for example, just the physical goal\u2014we have them sleep with siblings. The newbies sleep with siblings on the floor all together because they will be comfortable, emotionally, with their siblings since they don\u2019t know all of their cousins. Then, as they get bigger, we match them up with cousins of the same age; because we want to forge that relationship.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Somebody, who is listening to this conversation, just says, \u201cI\u2019m completely overwhelmed\u2014\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014\u201ceven hearing you talk about this.\u201d What\u2019s your counsel to them?\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> My counsel is start really small.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014like even a day?\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> \u2014a day.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Really?\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> Yes; a day is <em>great<\/em>. This book is not about copying the Yates; because that\u2019s just wrong for any of us to copy each other, because we are all different. You have to guard against falling into the comparison trap, because we\u2019re all different. You start small, and you start short. It\u2019s much easier to add later than it is to take away.\n\nWhat you want the kids to leave with is a desire to do this again, so you may have a 24-hour camp. Or you may, as I talk about in the book\u2014I have a friend, who they have six grandchildren. They decided to do\u2014who all live in the same town\u2014but often, when you live in the same town, you don\u2019t really see each other; because everybody\u2019s lives are so different. They had a 24-hour one with just their three girls\u2014the three little girl cousins; and then the next summer, they were going to do it with the three little boy cousins. You just have to assess your needs\/your situation, and you can do this anywhere. We happen to have a little, tiny farm; but people do it in cities. You just take advantage of where you are living.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> It\u2019s just to pray to do something\u2014\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014to ask the Lord: \u201cLord, what could it look like for our family, where we live, what we have going on?\u201d\u2014for God to just kind of take it and mold it to who <em>you<\/em> are.\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, the great thing is the book gives you a template\/a place to start and to say, \u201cOkay; we could do that,\u201d \u201cOkay; this doesn\u2019t work.\u201d\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u201cBut we could try this\u201d; and it gives you starting point. That, at least, helps you not have to come up with a plan out of thin air.\n\nWe\u2019ve got the manual for you; go to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com; get a copy of Susan Yates\u2019 book, <em>Cousin Camp: A Grandparent\u2019s Guide to Creating, Fun, Faith, and Memories That Last<\/em>. You can order the book from us, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY to order. Again, the title of the book is <em>Cousin Camp<\/em> by Susan Yates. Order online at FamilyLifeToday.com, or call 1-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\nBy the way, Susan has put together a downloadable PDF. It\u2019s called \u201cCamp at Home: A Hundred Practical Ideas for Families.\u201d That\u2019s available for free online. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com, and the information is available right there.\n\nWhile you are on our website, there is something we\u2019d like to ask you to do. We\u2019ve had some friends of the ministry, who have approached us\u2014actually, this happened back before the whole COVID-19 outbreak occurred\u2014they agreed that, during the month of May, they would match every donation we receive, here at FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, dollar for dollar, up to a total of $345,000. We did not know, then, just how needed those funds would wind up being; but they are critical for us right now.\n\nWe are asking <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners: \u201cIf you can help with a special one-time gift, knowing that your donation will be matched, dollar for dollar\u201d or \u201cIf you can join the FamilyLife Legacy Partner team and become a monthly donor, supporting this ministry each month, when you do, any donation you make as a Legacy Partner over the next 12 months is going to be matched, dollar for dollar.\u201d\n\nBy becoming a monthly donor, you will also receive a gift card that will enable you and your spouse to attend an upcoming <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> marriage getaway. We plan to kick those off again in the fall, Lord willing. You\u2019ll be able to come out and enjoy a weekend getaway this fall or next spring; or pass the card along to someone you know, who would benefit from a weekend getaway. That\u2019s when you become a monthly Legacy Partner. You can make a donation, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY.\n\nAgain, any donation you make is going to be matched, dollar for dollar; and we\u2019ll say, \u201cThank you,\u201d by sending you a copy of Barbara Rainey\u2019s new book, <em>My Heart, Ever His<\/em>, a wonderful collection of meaningful prayers that you can incorporate into your time with the Lord. It will help you put words to, maybe, some of what you are feeling\u2014the anxiety, or the fear, or the stress, or whatever you are going through. Barbara\u2019s book will be a great help, and it\u2019s our gift to you when you help us take advantage of this matching-gift challenge, here during the month of May. We hope to hear from you. Thanks, in advance, for whatever you are able to do in support of the work of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\nNow, tomorrow, we\u2019re going to talk more about the do\u2019s and don\u2019ts\/the time-tested wisdom that Susan Yates has learned over the years about how to do a Cousin Camp. She\u2019ll join us again. I hope you will join us as well.\n\nI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back tomorrow for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\n<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\nWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\nCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2020 FamilyLife. 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});\";s:18:\"current_block_list\";a:17:{i:0;s:14:\"uagb\/container\";i:1;s:12:\"core\/heading\";i:2;s:9:\"core\/html\";i:3;s:10:\"core\/group\";i:6;s:21:\"uagb\/advanced-heading\";i:7;s:14:\"uagb\/separator\";i:8;s:14:\"uagb\/icon-list\";i:9;s:20:\"uagb\/icon-list-child\";i:10;s:11:\"core\/search\";i:13;s:18:\"core\/legacy-widget\";i:16;s:10:\"uagb\/image\";i:17;s:17:\"core\/social-links\";i:18;s:16:\"core\/social-link\";i:19;s:14:\"core\/paragraph\";i:20;s:30:\"meta-box\/fl-conditional-blocks\";i:21;s:12:\"uagb\/buttons\";i:22;s:18:\"uagb\/buttons-child\";}s:8:\"uag_flag\";b:1;s:11:\"uag_version\";i:1776432323;s:6:\"gfonts\";a:1:{s:7:\"Default\";a:2:{s:10:\"fontfamily\";s:7:\"Default\";s:12:\"fontvariants\";a:0:{}}}s:10:\"gfonts_url\";s:71:\"\/\/fonts.googleapis.com\/css?family=Default&subset=latin&display=fallback\";s:12:\"gfonts_files\";a:0:{}s:14:\"uag_faq_layout\";b:0;}"]},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg",508,508,false]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"kfairris@familylife.com","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/kfairrisfamilylife-com\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"Susan Yates and her husband have been hosting their grandchildren at Cousin's Camp each summer for over a decade. They say, the memories they've made have been worth the effort. Susan offers some simple, practical tips for hosting your own family camp.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2020-05-20.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Or maybe just\u2014\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> No parents allowed.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Really?\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> Really.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Can we send our kids or our grandkids?\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> You can start one. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Susan Yates is here, joining us on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. We were just talking about the number of times you\u2019ve been here. Welcome back; so good to have you here.\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> Oh, it\u2019s great to be back. Thanks.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Susan is a writer\/a speaker. She and her husband\u2014everybody knows him as John\u2014except she calls him Johnny, so I kind of feel like I should call him Johnny too. [Laughter] They live in suburban Washington, DC, where for many years, he was the senior pastor\/the rector at the Falls Church in Virginia.\n\nYou guys have been doing this event with your grandkids for a while now, but you\u2019ve just written down what it is you\u2019re doing in a new book about Cousin Camp. When did all of this get started?\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> Well, we started Cousin Camp almost 12 years ago with 5 grandchildren from 3 different families. We have five kids, and they are all married, and they are all scattered. One of the things we\u2019ve wanted is for our grandchildren to know one another and to have significant time together; so we thought, \u201cOne of the ways we could do this was to bring them together for three days and two nights in the summer and just run a camp.\u201d Also, we simply wanted to be able to have the children without their parents and to be able to have some sort of an input into their lives.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So how old were your grandkids at this point when you had your first Cousin Camp?\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> Our first Cousin Camp, I think, we had a seven-year-old, two five-year-olds, and a four-year-old, and maybe an eight-year-old.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Okay; this just sounds <em>exhausting<\/em> to me\u2014what you just described. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> It is! [Laughter]\u00a0 In all honesty, it\u2019s the most exhausting four days of our life every year.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> But you invited an eight-year-old, seven-year-old, four-year-old, five-year-old: \u201cCome to our house and spend the week with us.\u201d\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> No; it\u2019s not a week. [Laughter] The key is to start small.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Okay.\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> The first year we did it\u2014it was two nights and three days. Then, after that, we changed it to three nights and four days. It\u2019s always been, since the first year, three nights and four days.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> But your family has grown, too; right?\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> It isn\u2019t just a few now.\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> No; it\u2019s 21 now\u2014[Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s a lot.\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> \u2014which is kind of crazy.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> How did your kids feel about not being invited?\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> Oh, they were thrilled! [Laughter] Quite honestly, they are <em>thrilled<\/em>; because we have\u2014from the beginning, a wise friend of mine, who was ten years ahead of me\/sort of my camp mentor\u2014suggested: \u201cDon\u2019t let them come until they are four; because when you have four-year-olds, you\u2019re not dealing with the two-year-old and three-year-old temper tantrums. You\u2019re not dealing with kids being up at night. Mostly, they sleep through the night.\u201d\n\nThis is not right for everybody. I have\/we have a lot of friends who do it differently; but for us, this made sense. To come to Cousin Camp, you have to wait until you are four. Our adult children are <em>thrilled<\/em> when their last child reaches four, and they can drop their kids off at camp and leave. They go on a honeymoon. We feel like it benefits our adult kids, giving them time alone, without their children, while we\u2019re basically taking care of the kids.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Back at the beginning of this, were you thinking, \u201cThis is going to be all fun and games with the kids,\u201d or did you have\u2014how did you have the three days\/two nights apportioned?\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> Well, we\u2019ve always had a schedule; it takes a lot of planning. We have a morning Bible study time; we have activities. We make out, months ahead, a detailed schedule. Now, the schedule can be thrown out at any moment, because you have to be flexible; and when something doesn\u2019t work, or you need to change gears, you change gears.\n\nEvery year, it\u2019s a little bit different; but the basic schedule stays the same with different elements put in depending on what worked last year and what didn\u2019t and \u201cWhat are the age of the kids this year?\u201d because needs in families and needs in life change year to year. We\u2019re not static; we\u2019re always growing and changing. You have to adapt your plans to the changes.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> If you started with an eight-year-old and you\u2019re twelve years in now, you\u2019ve got a nineteen\/twenty-year-old today.\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> Yes, 20-year-old.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Is that child still coming to Cousin Camp?\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> Oh, she <em>loves<\/em> it.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Really?!\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> Yes; as a matter of fact, she wrote a blog. I printed it in the book\u2014her reflections in the first chapter on being the eldest at Cousin Camp and the exhaustion she experienced, but also the fun, and the hope she wouldn\u2019t disappear from these cousins\u2019 lives as she went off to college but that she would remain a part of it. Now, she\u2019s unusual; so I don\u2019t know if it had been a boy, if he would have responded that way; but the next one in line is a boy.\n\nI think one the things that we\u2019ve been very intentional in doing, throughout the 11 years, is turning over the leadership of camp to the older cousins; because the older kids speak <em>volumes<\/em> into the little people. That is just a <em>tremendous<\/em> influence. We\u2019ve intentionally turned, each year, more and more of the activities, the leadership, the Bible studies, the sharing time over to the bigger cousins.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So give me a sample day.\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> Okay.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> What is a day at Cousin Camp look like?\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> You\u2019re up; you have breakfast. You have a little quiet-time Bible study. Each year at camp, the newbies\u2014which is what we call the new ones for their first year at camp when they are four\u2014they get a journal\u2014just a journal that I have glued a picture of the child on\/that I have developed just a picture. We make a big presentation over presenting the journals. These journals live at our place; they don\u2019t go home because they\u2019d just get lost. They live at our place; so, year to year, the kids add to the journals as they come back.\n\nThey pull the journals out for Bible study, and Bible study is short; you know, it\u2019s 30 minutes\/35 minutes. It\u2019s\u2014we have a theme for the camp or a special verse. John, my husband, leads the Bible study usually. The first thing we do is share testimonies, and we take the kids through the gospel. If they haven\u2019t given their life to Christ, we give them an opportunity. It\u2019s not pushy at all, but it\u2019s just natural. Again, I think the naturalness flows from being the grandparent and not the parent.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So do you live in like a mansion, where\u2014\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> No, no, no. [Laughter] Absolutely not; no. We have a little farm out in the country; that\u2019s where we have camp. We also have neighbors, who share their space with us when the whole family comes in, which is at the end of camp; but basically, the kids sleep all over. We usually have three on the floor in our bedroom. We have two in the closet. Camp is never really about getting great sleep; it\u2019s about togetherness\u2014\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> \u2014sleeping bags, couches, floors.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So I\u2019m up to lunch time right now. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> We forgot; didn\u2019t we? [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We still have a half day.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I mean, I\u2019m the guy that\u2014I\u2019m a seven-year-old, and I\u2019m in your house. I\u2019m at camp; so I\u2019m excited to know: \u201cWhat else happens?\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Wait; what\u2019s for lunch?\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> What\u2019s for lunch?\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Because I\u2019m thinking\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014and who\u2019s cooking it?\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> That\u2019s right.\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> Okay; food is not a big deal. I mean, we are simple: paper plates, paper napkins, mac and cheese, sandwiches, hamburgers, hot dogs, chicken nuggets. Camp is <em>not<\/em> about food.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Okay.\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> So you release that pressure right off the bat.\n\nAfter Bible study, we always have an activity; it may be a giant hide-and-seek game. There is always an event\u2014a scavenger hunt or an obstacle course. We have a time where we go berry picking at a nearby orchard or swimming in our pond. We have a craft session. We do have a rest hour, because John and I would die if we didn\u2019t\u2014[Laughter]\u2014where the kids also need to learn how to entertain themselves\u2014not that they are entertained all the time.\n\nThat\u2019s kind of the flow of the day or these blocks of time, which what we do in them changes according to the ages of the kids; and then supper and then activities after dinner.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And the kids throughout the day\u2014do you have discipline issues? Do you have whiny, [screaming] tantrum-throwing kids?\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> Oh, yes; it\u2019s not normal if you don\u2019t.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> They are kids. I remember, one summer\u2014we have three granddaughters, who are approximately the same age; and two ganged up on the third and said, \u201cYou can\u2019t play with us.\u201d They were basically just being mean girls. I had to take them aside and say, \u201cThis is not acceptable, and this is why...\u201d I just simply explained it to them and said, \u201cYou do need to play together.\u201d\n\nI remember, on another occasion, one of the grandsons was just really being ugly to another cousin. He\u2019s very strong-willed, and I couldn\u2019t handle him; so I said, \u201cHoney, you need to handle this one.\u201d A lot goes into how we work together as a team, and my husband was going to be better at handling <em>that<\/em> grandson than I was.\n\nThere is a lot that goes into this. I talk about this in the book\u2014about how you work together in your marriage, giving your specific gift sets so that you are completing one another, and backing one another up, and not really competing with each other; but yes, you\u2019re going to have arguments.\n\nAnd one of the things that I\u2019ve learned is you have to be flexible with your schedule. Where are we flexible, and where do we hold fast?\u2014so this is the guiding principle on that: We are flexible when we need to change course because of events, but we hold fast when it\u2019s a character issue. These two incidents with the grandson and the two mean girls were character issues, so we have to be firm on that.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; John, I guess, takes the week off from work or the four days off\u2014whatever it is\u2014he is full-hands on deck with this.\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> He\u2019s full-hands on deck; but you know, here again, it\u2019s sort of: \u201cWhat is your situation, professionally, and in your marriage?\u201d Because all of the years we\u2019ve been doing this, my husband has been the senior pastor of a large church. He\u2019s exhausted and doesn\u2019t have the time, and I\u2019m more of the planner. I\u2019ve done more of the planning; but then, I set it up so that he\u2019s up front leading the stuff more than I am; but we do it together. Yes, he has to take time off. Boy, after it is over, we are <em>dead<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Parents come in at the end, right?\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> Right; the way we\u2019ve worked it is we go right from Cousin Camp into Family Camp, where all our kids and the little ones, that are not yet four, come in for three more days.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Have there been years when the soccer team or the work schedule for the kids\u2014something has kept some of the cousins from being able to come to Cousin Camp?\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> No; one year, we had\u2014one of our families was on a missions\u2019 trip in Africa, so they couldn\u2019t come. Then, one year, one of my daughters, who is a twin, has quadruplets; so they didn\u2019t come for a year, because it was just too crazy. We put it on the calendar way ahead. What\u2019s been tricky is the school system is getting out at different times.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> What would the Yates family be without it? Can you picture your legacy or how you would be relating to your grandkids if you didn\u2019t have Cousin Camp?\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> Wow; you know, I don\u2019t think you ever really know your legacy. I think the cousins would not have the relationships that they do\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> \u2014that would be a big thing. We\u2019ve had the opportunity to share Christ just very naturally and specifically with the kids. We\u2019ve had the opportunity to see the older kids build into the younger kids and, also, to give our adult children a little breath of fresh air, not having their kids for those few days. I wouldn\u2019t presume to know what the legacy is; I don\u2019t know.\n\nLet me just say this: I think, as parents and grandparents, we live with so much guilt and so much \u201cI ought to have\u2026\u201d or \u201cI shouldn\u2019t have\u2026\u201d; and if we\u2019re really honest, every one of us feels like we\u2019ve ruined our children over and over again; or we\u2019ve ruined our grandchildren over and over again. I think what we have to realize is our ability to ruin our children is not nearly as great as God\u2019s power to redeem them. That\u2019s just been a really comforting thought to me, because I\u2019m only going to mess up; I\u2019m going to mess up.\n\nOne of the things we stress in our family is the importance of forgiveness. I think it\u2019s probably the most single most important ingredient in the family.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You continue to have interaction with the kids all year long. I\u2019m sure your few days with them in the summer is catalytic for you to be able to continue that communication throughout the year with them.\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> It is; but Bob, you know, in all honesty, I am <em>not<\/em> a great grandmother in terms of communicating. There is so many other grandparents who do it so much better than I do. I\u2019m not techie; but I have friends who are grandparents who Skype, regularly, with their grandchildren.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Well, you have <em>21<\/em>.\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s not easy.\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> That\u2019s not easy, so I don\u2019t do any of that. It all depends on your situation. That\u2019s why Cousin Camp has been pivotal for us, because I don\u2019t feel like I\u2019m as good as a lot of my friends with the day in and day out communication during the year.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019ve got to tell you\u2014hearing you talk about Cousin Camp\u2014honestly, I\u2019m like, \u201cI am such a bad grandfather.\u201d [Laughter] Oh my goodness! We haven\u2019t done anything. Although we\u2019ve done a pretty good job of Skype-ing and that kind of thing; but it\u2019s inspiring to think, \u201cWe can do this.\u201d I mean, that\u2019s one of the great things when I was reading about what you do\u2014it\u2019s like, \u201cThis is doable.\u201d\n\nI really think\u2014that\u2019s why I asked you the question, \u201cWhat would the Wilson family be without it?\u201d It\u2019s sort of where we are now: \u201cWhat could it look like if we added this?\u201d\u2014\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014you know, with the cousins knowing each other?\n\nPart of it is probably my broken family\u2014didn\u2019t know my dad well; didn\u2019t know my dad\u2019s parents; didn\u2019t know my brothers; know none of my cousins; <em>never<\/em> did we ever do this. For somebody like me, it\u2019s like, \u201cOh, this is a new way to think about grandparenting,\u201d\u2014not only did I want to change the legacy as a dad\u2014but now, as a grandparent, I can impact that through all of my kids\u2019 kids and cousins; it\u2019s: \u201cWow!\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think the thing that inspired me, too, Susan is\u2014one, as a grandmother, I want to <em>know<\/em> my grandkids; but it\u2019s really hard to do that when they don\u2019t live in the same city.\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> It is.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> So you come up with a different way to plan. I am so inspired by this; because it\u2019s in your book, where you have the names of each child, their needs, the goals, and the program. Talk about that. How did you come up with that? And is this important to preplan what you are going to be doing and why with each child?\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> In all honesty, we didn\u2019t come up with this ourselves. This is a philosophical approach, really, to ministry and family life that we learned from an old pastor friend and his wife, who taught us; and basically, I see this in our life.\n\nSo often, our goal is to have an event that\u2019s successful. Then we\/it\u2019s done, and we are sort of are grateful; but the reality is to just plan an event for the sake of an event is missing the mark. We need to think, \u201cOkay; what do we want to have happen <em>after<\/em> the event or as a result of the event?\u201d\n\nYou change how you approach an event, or ministry, or really anything in life; and you begin to ask the questions: \u201cOkay; who do we want to come to the event?\u201d\u2014which, in this case, is our grandchildren; or other types of family reunions, which I also talk about in the book. We write down the names of the people coming: \u201cWhat are their needs?\u201d\u2014what are their needs in five areas of growth?\u2014\u201cWhat are their needs spiritually, mentally, physically, emotionally, and socially?\u201d That\u2019s just a grid we think through.\n\nLike a four-year-old: \u201cOkay, Mac is coming as a newbie this year; he is four. He doesn\u2019t know all of his cousins; he is emotionally\u2014he needs to feel safe; he needs to feel like he can get to know them. Physically, he\u2019s going to probably need to take a nap, because he is going to get worn out. Spiritually, has he really given his life to Christ?\u201d\n\nWe think through this grid for each of the kids each year. Then we plan the program based on the needs and goals rather than just planning a program that people are going to have fun, but it\u2019s not going to have any <em>lasting<\/em> impact.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019m guessing, from what you said, you do a lot of that planning yourself.\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> Well, we just sat with a list of the kids\u2014John and I sit with a list of the kids, several months out, and say, \u201cOkay; what do we notice about each of these kids?\u201d Sometimes, we don\u2019t know, Dave\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> \u2014so we have to get input from the parents.\n\n<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> We <em>always<\/em> do this before camp: \u201cOkay, tell us about your child this year. What are his gifts?\u201d There is a proverb that says, \u201cKnow well the condition of your flocks.\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> I take that as a mandate to study my kids and to study my grandkids so that I will know their condition. We go to the parents, and we say: \u201cOkay, give us a cheat sheet; because we don\u2019t see you that often. Tell us what one of Mimi\u2019s\u2014what\u2019s her passion? Is she into art? Is she a reader? Is she into sports? What are her gifts that you see?\u2014and how can we fan the flame in those gifts?\u201d or \u201cWhat are your concerns? Is there a child that you are\u2014who might be anxious at camp?\u201d\u2014we need to know that up front\u2014\u201cHow can we comfort this child?\u201d\n\nWhen the kids are little, for example, just the physical goal\u2014we have them sleep with siblings. The newbies sleep with siblings on the floor all together because they will be comfortable, emotionally, with their siblings since they don\u2019t know all of their cousins. Then, as they get bigger, we match them up with cousins of the same age; because we want to forge that relationship.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Somebody, who is listening to this conversation, just says, \u201cI\u2019m completely overwhelmed\u2014\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014\u201ceven hearing you talk about this.\u201d What\u2019s your counsel to them?\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> My counsel is start really small.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014like even a day?\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> \u2014a day.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Really?\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> Yes; a day is <em>great<\/em>. This book is not about copying the Yates; because that\u2019s just wrong for any of us to copy each other, because we are all different. You have to guard against falling into the comparison trap, because we\u2019re all different. You start small, and you start short. It\u2019s much easier to add later than it is to take away.\n\nWhat you want the kids to leave with is a desire to do this again, so you may have a 24-hour camp. Or you may, as I talk about in the book\u2014I have a friend, who they have six grandchildren. They decided to do\u2014who all live in the same town\u2014but often, when you live in the same town, you don\u2019t really see each other; because everybody\u2019s lives are so different. They had a 24-hour one with just their three girls\u2014the three little girl cousins; and then the next summer, they were going to do it with the three little boy cousins. You just have to assess your needs\/your situation, and you can do this anywhere. We happen to have a little, tiny farm; but people do it in cities. You just take advantage of where you are living.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> It\u2019s just to pray to do something\u2014\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> Yes.\n\n<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014to ask the Lord: \u201cLord, what could it look like for our family, where we live, what we have going on?\u201d\u2014for God to just kind of take it and mold it to who <em>you<\/em> are.\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, the great thing is the book gives you a template\/a place to start and to say, \u201cOkay; we could do that,\u201d \u201cOkay; this doesn\u2019t work.\u201d\n\n<strong>Susan:<\/strong> Right.\n\n<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u201cBut we could try this\u201d; and it gives you starting point. That, at least, helps you not have to come up with a plan out of thin air.\n\nWe\u2019ve got the manual for you; go to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com; get a copy of Susan Yates\u2019 book, <em>Cousin Camp: A Grandparent\u2019s Guide to Creating, Fun, Faith, and Memories That Last<\/em>. You can order the book from us, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY to order. Again, the title of the book is <em>Cousin Camp<\/em> by Susan Yates. Order online at FamilyLifeToday.com, or call 1-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\nBy the way, Susan has put together a downloadable PDF. It\u2019s called \u201cCamp at Home: A Hundred Practical Ideas for Families.\u201d That\u2019s available for free online. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com, and the information is available right there.\n\nWhile you are on our website, there is something we\u2019d like to ask you to do. We\u2019ve had some friends of the ministry, who have approached us\u2014actually, this happened back before the whole COVID-19 outbreak occurred\u2014they agreed that, during the month of May, they would match every donation we receive, here at FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, dollar for dollar, up to a total of $345,000. We did not know, then, just how needed those funds would wind up being; but they are critical for us right now.\n\nWe are asking <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners: \u201cIf you can help with a special one-time gift, knowing that your donation will be matched, dollar for dollar\u201d or \u201cIf you can join the FamilyLife Legacy Partner team and become a monthly donor, supporting this ministry each month, when you do, any donation you make as a Legacy Partner over the next 12 months is going to be matched, dollar for dollar.\u201d\n\nBy becoming a monthly donor, you will also receive a gift card that will enable you and your spouse to attend an upcoming <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> marriage getaway. We plan to kick those off again in the fall, Lord willing. You\u2019ll be able to come out and enjoy a weekend getaway this fall or next spring; or pass the card along to someone you know, who would benefit from a weekend getaway. That\u2019s when you become a monthly Legacy Partner. You can make a donation, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY.\n\nAgain, any donation you make is going to be matched, dollar for dollar; and we\u2019ll say, \u201cThank you,\u201d by sending you a copy of Barbara Rainey\u2019s new book, <em>My Heart, Ever His<\/em>, a wonderful collection of meaningful prayers that you can incorporate into your time with the Lord. It will help you put words to, maybe, some of what you are feeling\u2014the anxiety, or the fear, or the stress, or whatever you are going through. Barbara\u2019s book will be a great help, and it\u2019s our gift to you when you help us take advantage of this matching-gift challenge, here during the month of May. We hope to hear from you. Thanks, in advance, for whatever you are able to do in support of the work of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\nNow, tomorrow, we\u2019re going to talk more about the do\u2019s and don\u2019ts\/the time-tested wisdom that Susan Yates has learned over the years about how to do a Cousin Camp. She\u2019ll join us again. I hope you will join us as well.\n\nI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back tomorrow for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\n<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\nWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\nCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2020 FamilyLife. 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