{"id":306016,"date":"2020-05-18T07:00:05","date_gmt":"2020-05-18T11:00:05","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/the-compulsion-to-compare\/"},"modified":"2020-05-18T07:00:05","modified_gmt":"2020-05-18T11:00:05","slug":"the-compulsion-to-compare","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/the-compulsion-to-compare\/","title":{"rendered":"The Compulsion to Compare"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>Guest: Shannon Popkin | Series: Comparison Girl | Shannon Popkin, author of the book &#8220;Comparison Girl,&#8221; talks about her ongoing struggle to compare herself to others. Popkin remembers how the need to compare started and explains how insecurity often fuels the desire to have more. Popkin reminds us what Jesus says about comparing ourselves to others and gives us the steps for overcoming this annoying practice.<\/p>\n<p>Show Notes and Resources<\/p>\n<p> \tLearn more about Shannon Popkin at ShannonPopkin.com.<br \/>\n \tFind resources from this podcast at https:\/\/shop.familylife.com\/.<br \/>\n \tCheck out all that&#8217;s available on the FamilyLife Podcast Network.\u00a0 https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/familylife-podcast-network\/<br \/>\n \tHave the FamilyLife Today\u00ae podcast and resources helped you?\u00a0 Consider becoming a Legacy Partner, a monthly supporter of FamilyLife.\u00a0https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/legacy<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Shannon Popkin talks about her ongoing struggle to compare herself to others. She reminds us what Jesus says about comparing ourselves to others and gives us the steps for overcoming this annoying practice.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2020-05-18.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:29:12","filesize":"26.73M","filesize_raw":"28033656","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2822,2827,2093],"tags":[5690],"podcast_series":[8359],"cwp_profile":[9622],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-306016","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-growing-in-your-faith","category-repentance","category-women","tag-comparison","podcast_series-comparison-girl","cwp_profile-shannon-popkin","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/306016\/the-compulsion-to-compare","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/306016\/the-compulsion-to-compare","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"GQ3Egeci57\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/the-compulsion-to-compare\/\">The Compulsion to Compare<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/the-compulsion-to-compare\/embed\/#?secret=GQ3Egeci57\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;The Compulsion to Compare&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"GQ3Egeci57\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2020-05-18.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2020-05-18.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Comparison is a trap. It can cause us to think poorly of ourselves or, as Shannon Popkin points out, it can also lead to self-righteousness.\n\n<strong>Shannon: <\/strong>In the church especially we have this habit of looking at others with this sense of disgust: \u201cI\u2019m so disgusted with my son for this,\u201d or \u201cI\u2019m so disgusted; look, that is so\u2026\u201d We have this <em>tone<\/em> when we look at other people. We cannot communicate disgust without also communicating something about ourselves\u2014without communicating a sense of superiority\/ this \u201cMe first,\u201d\u2014me elevating myself. This is so <em>opposite<\/em> of what Jesus calls us to, isn\u2019t it?\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Monday, May 18<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I'm Bob Lepine. You\u2019ll find us online at FamilyLifeToday.com. Are you someone who is prone to comparing yourself to others, and do you recognize the dangerous potential of that? We\u2019ll talk more about it today with Shannon Popkin. Stay with us.\n\nAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. You guys are on social media; I follow you on some stuff. You\u2019re on Twitter<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, right?\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>We\u2019re all over it, Bob, aren\u2019t we? [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You\u2019re on Twitter.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>We\u2019re on Twitter, Instagram<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Facebook<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Are you on Instagram? Yes; you\u2019re not posting a whole lot.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Oh, come on.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Aw, thanks, Bob. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>How many times a week do you think you put something on Instagram?\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Three or four times a day.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>No you don\u2019t!\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>No, he doesn\u2019t! [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>No, I\u2019m kidding; I\u2019m kidding; no, a little bit.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes, so maybe\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>\u2014maybe a few times a week.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Honestly, we never did this; and then when Zondervan was getting ready, they said, \u201cYou have to.\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You wrote a book; your publishers said you have to be on social media.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Don\u2019t you feel the same way every time?\u2014like, \u201cWho really cares what I\u2019m doing right now?\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, but there are people\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>\u2014they do care.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014oh, they do care. In fact, the thing about Instagram\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I know where you\u2019re going, Bob.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>It ties exactly into what we\u2019re going to talk about today. Last week, we talked with Shannon Popkin about the issue of control, and how that can be an issue for men and women, but particularly for wives and for moms. There\u2019s a second issue, and Instagram is fueling it in our day.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Oh, boy.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>That\u2019s the issue of comparison. So, are you on Instagram? Do you check Instagram once a day, at least?\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes, at least; yes.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>When you\u2019re looking at all these other pictures, what are you thinking?\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I can tell you what she\u2019s thinking.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>She\u2019s thinking, \u201cI wish my husband would do that to our kitchen!\u201d [Laughter] \u201cHey, honey, look what Joe did to his wife!\u201d I don\u2019t even know who Joe is and this woman, but \u201cLook at that kitchen, and he did all this!\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>You can\u2019t look at it without comparing\u2014\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>\u2014everything\u2014whether it\u2019s your house, your home, your kids, your husband\u2014all of those things.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, and recently\u2014back last fall, I think it was\u2014that Instagram said, \u201cWe\u2019re going to hide from your followers how many likes you got.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>\u2014which I think is smart.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>They were recognizing that this was a drug; it\u2019s to the whole issue of comparison, which we\u2019re going to talk about this week.\n\nShannon Popkin is joining us again; welcome back.\n\n<strong>Shannon: <\/strong>Thank you.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Shannon wrote the book, <em>Control Girl<\/em>, which we talked about last week. She has a band-new book out called <em>Comparison Girl<\/em>. It wasn\u2019t Instagram that drove you to this book, but you know what we\u2019re talking about here.\n\n<strong>Shannon: <\/strong>Absolutely.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Are you on Instagram?\n\n<strong>Shannon: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>When you look at it, does that same comparison thing\u2014\n\n<strong>Shannon: <\/strong>Oh, yes.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014well up in you? When did you realize that you were a comparison girl?\n\n<strong>Shannon: <\/strong>You know, I think I\u2019ve always struggled with comparison. My earliest childhood memory has little threads of comparison in it. They say that your first memory kind of says something about you\/if that\u2019s what sticks out. My first memory is being in church. I was sitting in the row ahead of my parents\u2014that may say something too\u2014I wanted that independence. I was standing tall, and I was holding my hymn book, and I was singing out really loud. Then there was this woman, who kind of leaned forward from the row behind me, and she took my hymn book and she flipped it right side up.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You had it upside down.\n\n<strong>Shannon: <\/strong>Yes, but <em>I<\/em> did not like that\u2014that she pointed out that I was doing something wrong. I took my hymn book and I flipped it back the other way, like, \u201cThis is the way I like it! Thank you very much.\u201d [Laughter]\n\nI think: \u201cWhy would a four-year-old be concerned about being exposed as illiterate?\u201d\u2014right?\u2014\u201cWhat is it in me that I don\u2019t want anyone to point out any way that I am ever inadequate?\u201d My heart is just bent on this perfectionism; I want everyone to see me as perfect.\n\nThe threads of what was in my little four-year-old self are still in me today: \u201cYou know, why is it that I feel so exposed that someone would think that my house isn\u2019t perfect or that my marriage isn\u2019t perfect?\u201d I\u2019m a middle-aged woman, who\u2014I struggle with my weight\u2014but I don\u2019t want anyone to know that. I mean, isn\u2019t that kind of normal? [Laughter] Isn\u2019t that\u2014I mean, these things that I struggle with, aren\u2019t they just kind of the normal things of life? Yet, I\u2019m <em>bent<\/em> on perfectionism and being <em>seen<\/em> in the eyes of other people as having no flaws.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I identify with <em>everything<\/em> you\u2019re saying. Here\u2019s the crazy part\u2014is that all of us, as women, have usually struggled with this in some form or another\u2014and what it does is it alienates us from one another. It\u2019s so sad; because I look at women and I think, \u201cLook at the power and the strength that we have if we could lock arms with one another.\u201d Yet, we\u2019re hiding from each other and really hiding who we are.\n\nDo men struggle with this?\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I was going to say, \u201cOf course, we do.\u201d I mean, think about this\u2014as a preacher\u2014\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u2014both of us preach at our churches. We\u2019re old enough to know, back in the day, when we would preach, nobody compared us\/to very few other people.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>They didn\u2019t hear anybody else, unless they went to another church, and they came back and said, \u201cHey, this guy\u2019s really good.\u201d\n\n<em>Now<\/em>, they\u2019re looking at me like, \u201cWe have to listen to him when we could listen to Piper and\u2026?\u201d You know, they can go through a list, and you\u2019re competing with that every day. You talk about comparison; you never measure up.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Here\u2019s the thing that I\u2019ve found for myself. I\u2019m comparison-aware in areas that I really value. In areas that I don\u2019t value, it\u2019s like, \u201cNo big deal.\u201d I look at it and I go, \u201cIf somebody is a better ping-pong player than I am,\u201d\u2014right?\u2014[Laughter] I go, \u201cWell, that\u2019s nice; that\u2019s cool\u201d; I can cheer him on. But if I aspire to be a really good ping-pong player, that\u2019s where, yes, I do get down to the minutiae.\n\nI had a situation, not long ago, where I was hearing about a guy, who had been invited to be an emcee at an event. I was thinking, \u201cWhy didn\u2019t they ask me to be the emcee?\u201d [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>\u2014because you are a really good emcee.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>It\u2019s kind of what I do, you know. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I wondered why they didn\u2019t ask you.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>But the point is: \u201cYes, in those situations, where you do aspire to be good at something, the comparison monster shows up.\u201d It\u2019s true for both men and women. I think, though, again, for women\u2014we talked about this with control last week\u2014I think there\u2019s something about a woman\u2019s psyche, where she may be more bent and more prone toward this comparison issue.\n\nShannon, you say it\u2019s like a drug; the more you taste it, the more competitive\/the more you want it. You can get sucked in really easily; and now you\u2019re reading Martha Stewart magazine and going, \u201cWhy doesn\u2019t my kitchen look like this?\u201d You\u2019re getting the magazines that have pictures of women and you go, \u201cWhy don\u2019t I look like this?\u201d It\u2019s <em>all<\/em> of these things coming together, and it just puts you under the pile.\n\n<strong>Shannon: <\/strong>Yes, and it can <em>last<\/em> throughout your whole lifetime. You start comparing, as a young mom with a new baby, and then you grow into a mom of teenagers, or a grandma. Even grandmas are comparing their kids! Or you start in a new position and you\u2019re comparing yourself with all the other new hires. By the retirement party, you\u2019re still comparing yourself with the others who are retiring.\n\nIt\u2019s this problem that the more we compare, the more we want to compare. It is not producing anything remotely healthy or happy in our hearts.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>In your book, you outline a number of areas where comparison shows up in your life and in the life of a lot of women. You talk about comparing sins; it\u2019s comparing sins, but comparing righteousness at the same time. It\u2019s looking at others and thinking: \u201cWell, your sin is worse than mine,\u201d or \u201cI\u2019m holier than you,\u201d or \u201cI wish I was as holy as you.\u201d It\u2019s that whole comparison; it\u2019s evaluating our spiritual lives by looking at other people.\n\n<strong>Shannon: <\/strong>Yes; I spoke for a women\u2019s group recently. I asked them to raise their hand on their favorite chapter in the book. I was kind of worried about this comparing sin chapter; I didn\u2019t know if everybody else did it as much as I did. [Laughter] That was the one that most of the women were interested in looking at and reading.\n\nEspecially, I think, as Christians, we tend to compare our righteousness or our sin with others. In the church especially we have this habit of looking at others with this sense of disgust: \u201cI\u2019m so disgusted with my son for this,\u201d or \u201cI\u2019m so disgusted; look, that is so\u2026\u201d We have this <em>tone<\/em> when we look at other people.\n\nIn his book, <em>Age of Outrage<\/em>, Ed Stetzer says, \u201cWe cannot communicate disgust without also communicating something about ourselves\/without communicating a sense of superiority.\u201d We can\u2019t look down at others with disgust without lifting ourselves up\u2014this \u201cMe first,\u201d\u2014me elevating myself. This is so <em>opposite<\/em> of what Jesus calls us to, isn\u2019t it?\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes, the comparison of my sins and your sins\u2014I mean, my experience is that I tend to minimize what are my sins\u2014the areas, where I\u2019m not as prone to sin or don\u2019t have the same temptations, I tend to blow those up as the really bad things that other people do, without recognizing that what the Bible says is all sin is ultimately rebellion against God, and against His goodness, and His purposes.\n\nWhile we can\u2019t say all sins are equal in terms of their damage that they do to us or to others, all sins are equal in terms of what they\u2019re saying about who God is and about who we are. They\u2019re all rebellion against Him, aren\u2019t they?\n\n<strong>Shannon: <\/strong>Yes; in this book, I\u2019m looking at: \u201cWhat does Jesus say about comparison? What is He saying to people who are comparing?\u201d There are lots of instances where people are comparing their sin with somebody else\u2019s sin in the Gospels.\n\nOne of those is when Simon is hosting this dinner. There\u2019s the sinful woman, who comes; and she\u2019s weeping at Jesus\u2019 feet. Simon\u2019s sort of looking down on her with disgust; and then Jesus says, \u201cSimon, I have something to say to you.\u201d Jesus tells this little story, and He tells a story about two people. One of them has a lot of debt; the other one has a little bit of debt. Both of them, though, are in debt; and they can\u2019t pay off their debt.\n\nIn a sense, Jesus is putting Simon and this woman side by side in this story; and He\u2019s saying, \u201cYes, this woman\u2014she has a lot more sin than you do\u2014but you <em>both<\/em> are in exactly the same situation, where you have debt that you cannot pay.\u201d For Simon to look down on her, he\u2019s not recognizing his own [indebtedness]. That\u2019s us; so many times, when we look down at somebody else\u2019s sin, we\u2019re ignoring our own condition. We are men and women, who live with this enormous debt of our own sin. Whether it\u2019s minimal or a lot of sin, none of us can face God or face eternity based on our own merit; we are <em>all<\/em> in a desperate situation.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You talk about what you call \u201csideways disgust.\u201d Explain what that is.\n\n<strong>Shannon: <\/strong>Yes, it\u2019s just constantly looking to the side and looking at other people. I <em>feel<\/em> like I\u2019m looking at them; but ultimately, I\u2019m looking at myself; and I\u2019m measuring myself against them.\n\nI\u2019m so concerned about this disgust factor, I call it, in the church. I think we\u2019ve really grown comfortable with communicating disgust towards people who are outside the church or even those inside the church. I invited some friends to do a Disgust Factor Challenge with me; we went three weeks. We just kind of monitored our faces, and our voice tones, and our heart attitudes for little signs of disgust.\n\nIt was all over the place in our lives! We were so surprised at so many of the things\u2014and not just right and wrong\u2014they were just differences. We tend to want to group up with the people who look like us, and who live in the same neighborhoods with us, or go to the same kind of denomination. We cast this sideways disgust at the people who are not like us.\n\nBut you know what?\u2014in the church of Jesus Christ, every person is celebrated. The church is the most diverse and yet unified group. It\u2019s not uniform\u2014you know, there would be no need for unity if everyone was uniform in the church\u2014that\u2019s what the church is supposed to be like.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes; and where do you think that comes from?\u2014this disgust. I mean, when you say that, we\u2019re all shaking our heads and going: \u201cI\u2019ve done it,\u201d \u201cI\u2019ve felt it.\u201d But worse than me feeling it from others is I\u2019ve done it to others. You mentioned earlier: \u201cI think a lot of people, that are outside the church, that\u2019s one of the reasons they don\u2019t come.\u201d They don\u2019t feel welcome; they feel sort of a judgmental comparison eye. Where does that come from?\n\nI know we talked last week about the control thing being tied back to a curse. Where do you think the comparison gene\u2014because it\u2019s human\u2014where does it come from?\n\n<strong>Shannon: <\/strong>I think it\u2019s the world system that we live in. There\u2019s a ruler of this dark age, and he has set up a world system where he invites us to measure ourselves and compare ourselves. We don\u2019t have a backstory to Satan; but from what we can gather, Satan had authority and prestige in heaven. He was a leader, and yet he was not content with that. He said that he wanted to be lifted up; he wanted to be <em>like<\/em> the Most High.\n\nDo you see that comparison word, \u201clike\u201d? He had the <em>audacity<\/em>, as a created being, to compare himself with God and want to be on par with God. That was the beginning of his fall. Jesus said he fell like a streak of lightning to this world, and he didn\u2019t land on our planet with some new meekness; right? Satan is a liar, and he cannot embrace the truth. He lives out this delusion that somehow he is God\u2019s rival.\n\nHe tries to compete with God, and he throws attacks at God by throwing attacks at us. He comes after us, and he tries to lure us into the same behavior as him. He wanted to lift himself up, and that\u2019s what he tempts us to do the same. He wants us to lift ourselves up\/to constantly be measuring ourselves; and he invites us to <em>prove<\/em> that we are enough, that we have enough, that we are better than others. Then, when we can\u2019t prove that, he shames us\u2014right?\u2014and says, \u201cYou don\u2019t measure up.\u201d Either way, he just tempts us into this continual trap and bondage of measuring ourselves by others.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>It\u2019s really like the disgust part of comparison that you just got at is really rooted in the national religion of hell, according to C.S. Lewis.\n\n<strong>Shannon: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>So there\u2019s a sense that I\u2019m better; and yet, if I\u2019m completely humble, it\u2019s the <em>opposite<\/em>: no one would feel disgust from me; they would feel grace, and they\u2019d be drawn in.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>First John has a verse that talks about loving the world, the things of the world, and then it goes on to talk about the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, the boastful pride of life. You ask where this comes from\u2014the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, the boastful pride of life\u2014it\u2019s the comparison with other people.\n\nYou trace that back to when Satan came to Eve in the garden and showed her the fruit. It says it looked good to her; it was desirable. She saw, \u201cThis would make me wise\u201d; so it was appealing to her pride\/to her vanity. Our comparison is that there\u2019s something inside of us that we want to be esteemed. We want people to look at us and think we\u2019re better than we are\u2014and think we\u2019re all that and a bag of chips\u2014right? [Laughter] We <em>want<\/em> folks to think highly of us, and we think the way to do that is through self-aggrandizement rather than saying what Jesus said: \u201cIf you want to be great in the kingdom, you become the servant of all.\u201d That\u2019s when God looks and says, \u201cThere\u2019s a great one right there.\u201d\n\nOne of the areas that you say is a comparison pitfall in your book, <em>Comparison Girl<\/em>\u2014we\u2019re talking to Shannon Popkin about this\u2014you talk about wealth being a comparison issue. Certainly in our culture, we\u2019ve all talked about keeping up with the Joneses and being aware of: the neighbor gets a new car; and instead of going, \u201cGood for them,\u201d we think, \u201cWhen do we get a new car?\u201d\u2014right? [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Shannon: <\/strong>Right; yes. Tim Keller says that you don\u2019t <em>know<\/em> you\u2019re greedy if you are. That was really convicting to me.\n\nWe always talk about ourselves as being blessed. You know, when we have wealth, we\u2019re blessed; but what if we\u2019re just being tested? What if God was saying: \u201cAs you have opportunity to pad your bank account or pad your purse, are you going to love Me with that money, or are you going to love yourself? Are you going to use that wealth?\u2014are you going to use it to measure yourself against others and to be seen as superior, or are you going to give away your wealth?\u201d\n\nI remember reading that part about the camel and the needle; and for the first time, I recognized: \u201cYou know what? Camels are really big, and the eye of a needle is really small. If I have wealth, it means I have that sort of stacked against me. My wealth is actually not to my advantage; it puts me at a disadvantage. It keeps pulling me into measuring myself and trying to prove that I\u2019m superior. The only way to break free from that is to give money away. That\u2019s what frees me of this trap of comparison.\u201d\n\nAlso, thinking about the fact that\u2014when I take my measuring cup full of money and I tip it out, and I pour my wealth out\u2014every little bit is collected in the place where moth and rust cannot destroy. That\u2019s <em>very<\/em> motivating to me.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Now you\u2019ve gone to meddling. [Laughter] I have stuff\u2014when you said, \u201cWhat if, instead of looking at it as blessing, we looked at it as a test?\u201d\u2014I thought, \u201cI don\u2019t know that I\u2019ve ever thought of that\u2014that God gives you wealth and it may be to say: \u2018Okay, let\u2019s see what you do with this. Let\u2019s see how your godliness is going to manifest itself in this. Is it going to be, \u201cWell, I\u2019m sure lucky; I can do things other people can\u2019t do,\u201d or is it going to be generosity and kingdom-focused living?\u2019\u201d\n\nI remember a pastor one time saying most of us look at our bank account and we say, \u201cHow much of what we have are we going to share with God?\u201d instead of saying, \u201cHow much of what God has given to us are we going to keep for ourselves?\u201d Now, there\u2019s a whole different perspective if we say: \u201cOkay, this is not my money; this is God\u2019s money. How much of it do I keep for myself?\u201d \u201cBecause it belongs to God; how much does He want me to spend on me? How much does He want me to spend on advancing His kingdom?\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes, and wouldn\u2019t it be radical if, instead of comparing our wealth to our neighbor\u2014you know, because we\u2019re always like, \u201cI hope I have more,\u201d\u2014what if we compared, in a good way, and said, \u201cI hope I can be the most generous\u201d?\n\n<strong>Shannon: <\/strong>Yes! You know what? Jesus invites us to compare in that way. Do you remember the story of the widow at the temple as she brought her two little copper coins? In that day, the temple would give a widow two coins per day for her bread for the day; so this woman was basically saying: \u201cYou know what? I\u2019m going to fast today. I\u2019m going to give generously; I\u2019m going to go without food.\u201d I think it\u2019s interesting she had two; because that means she could have given one and kept one for herself, but she was <em>so generous<\/em>.\n\nJesus, in response to that, calls His disciples over and He says: \u201cHey, look at her! Look at her; she has given more than all the rest of these.\u201d It\u2019s this interesting thing that Jesus invites us to compare in a way that inspires us, not to measure ourselves against each other, but \u201cLet\u2019s be inspired by the generosity of this woman.\u201d He lifts her up. She had humbled herself so drastically, and yet He lifts her up. Let\u2019s be inspired by the people around us who are generous.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>To that point, comparison can be corrosive and toxic; or if we\u2019re comparing ourselves to what God\u2019s called us to, it can be inspiring. It can be something that\u2019s motivating, to say, \u201cMy goal is to be like Jesus.\u201d Now, there\u2019s a comparison that we are always going to fall short of; but when that\u2019s our goal, not for our glory but for God\u2019s glory, that\u2019s a whole different kind of comparison. That\u2019s why the subtitle of your book is so right: [<em>Lessons<\/em>]<em> from Jesus on Me-Free Living in a Measure-Up World<\/em>. This is not about, \u201cHow do I look good?\u201d; it\u2019s about, \u201cHow does God look good\/how does He look good through me? How do I glorify Him?\u201d\n\nI\u2019m guessing that maybe more than a few of our listeners wrestle with this issue of comparison. Get a copy of Shannon\u2019s book, and maybe go through it with some other women. You can order Shannon\u2019s book from us, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can call to order: 1-800-FL-TODAY is the number. Again, our website is FamilyLifeToday.com. The number to call to order Shannon Popkin\u2019s book, <em>Comparison Girl<\/em>, is 1-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\nNow, the next couple of weeks are going to be pretty significant for us, here at FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>. You\u2019ve heard us, maybe, mention the fact that we\u2019ve had some friends of the ministry, who have come along and offered to match every donation we receive during the month of May, dollar for dollar, up to a total of $345,000. Honestly, this could not come at a better time; because as you might imagine, for ministries like ours, this is a challenging season. This matching gift is hopefully an incentive to get those of you, who are regular <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners, to make a donation so that your donation can be matched dollar for dollar.\n\nIn fact, if you\u2019re a regular listener, and you\u2019ve ever thought about becoming one of our monthly Legacy Partners, now\u2019s a great time to do that. You sign up now as a Legacy Partner, every donation you make for the next year is going to be matched dollar for dollar. <em>And<\/em> you\u2019ll receive a certificate so that you and your spouse can attend an upcoming <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup><\/em> marriage getaway. We do plan to re-engage with those in the fall; that\u2019s our plan at this point. That certificate will be yours to use or to pass along to someone else, if you\u2019d like, when you sign up to become a monthly Legacy Partner, here, at FamilyLife.\n\nIt\u2019s easy to donate; you can go to FamilyLifeToday.com to donate, or call 1-800-FL-TODAY. Everybody who makes a donation or who signs up to become a Legacy Partner, we\u2019d love to send you, as a thank-you gift, Barbara Rainey\u2019s new book, <em>My Heart, Ever His<\/em>, a wonderful collection of prayers that you will find very encouraging in a variety of challenging times and seasons. That book is our gift to you when you make a donation today. We so appreciate you; look forward to hearing from you. Thanks, in advance, for whatever you\u2019re able to do.\n\nNow, tomorrow, we\u2019re going to talk more about comparison. We want to talk about how we can fall into the trap of comparing our kids to other people\u2019s kids; we\u2019ve all done that, right? Shannon Popkin will join us again tomorrow. I hope you can join us as well.\n\nI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back tomorrow for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\n<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\nWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\nCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2020 FamilyLife. 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});\";s:18:\"current_block_list\";a:17:{i:0;s:14:\"uagb\/container\";i:1;s:12:\"core\/heading\";i:2;s:9:\"core\/html\";i:3;s:10:\"core\/group\";i:6;s:21:\"uagb\/advanced-heading\";i:7;s:14:\"uagb\/separator\";i:8;s:14:\"uagb\/icon-list\";i:9;s:20:\"uagb\/icon-list-child\";i:10;s:11:\"core\/search\";i:13;s:18:\"core\/legacy-widget\";i:16;s:10:\"uagb\/image\";i:17;s:17:\"core\/social-links\";i:18;s:16:\"core\/social-link\";i:19;s:14:\"core\/paragraph\";i:20;s:30:\"meta-box\/fl-conditional-blocks\";i:21;s:12:\"uagb\/buttons\";i:22;s:18:\"uagb\/buttons-child\";}s:8:\"uag_flag\";b:1;s:11:\"uag_version\";i:1776729801;s:6:\"gfonts\";a:1:{s:7:\"Default\";a:2:{s:10:\"fontfamily\";s:7:\"Default\";s:12:\"fontvariants\";a:0:{}}}s:10:\"gfonts_url\";s:71:\"\/\/fonts.googleapis.com\/css?family=Default&subset=latin&display=fallback\";s:12:\"gfonts_files\";a:0:{}s:14:\"uag_faq_layout\";b:0;}"]},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg",508,508,false]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"kfairris@familylife.com","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/kfairrisfamilylife-com\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"Shannon Popkin talks about her ongoing struggle to compare herself to others. She reminds us what Jesus says about comparing ourselves to others and gives us the steps for overcoming this annoying practice.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2020-05-18.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Comparison is a trap. It can cause us to think poorly of ourselves or, as Shannon Popkin points out, it can also lead to self-righteousness.\n\n<strong>Shannon: <\/strong>In the church especially we have this habit of looking at others with this sense of disgust: \u201cI\u2019m so disgusted with my son for this,\u201d or \u201cI\u2019m so disgusted; look, that is so\u2026\u201d We have this <em>tone<\/em> when we look at other people. We cannot communicate disgust without also communicating something about ourselves\u2014without communicating a sense of superiority\/ this \u201cMe first,\u201d\u2014me elevating myself. This is so <em>opposite<\/em> of what Jesus calls us to, isn\u2019t it?\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Monday, May 18<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I'm Bob Lepine. You\u2019ll find us online at FamilyLifeToday.com. Are you someone who is prone to comparing yourself to others, and do you recognize the dangerous potential of that? We\u2019ll talk more about it today with Shannon Popkin. Stay with us.\n\nAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. You guys are on social media; I follow you on some stuff. You\u2019re on Twitter<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, right?\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>We\u2019re all over it, Bob, aren\u2019t we? [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You\u2019re on Twitter.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>We\u2019re on Twitter, Instagram<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, Facebook<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Are you on Instagram? Yes; you\u2019re not posting a whole lot.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Oh, come on.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Aw, thanks, Bob. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>How many times a week do you think you put something on Instagram?\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Three or four times a day.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>No you don\u2019t!\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>No, he doesn\u2019t! [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>No, I\u2019m kidding; I\u2019m kidding; no, a little bit.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes, so maybe\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>\u2014maybe a few times a week.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Honestly, we never did this; and then when Zondervan was getting ready, they said, \u201cYou have to.\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You wrote a book; your publishers said you have to be on social media.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Don\u2019t you feel the same way every time?\u2014like, \u201cWho really cares what I\u2019m doing right now?\u201d\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, but there are people\u2014\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>\u2014they do care.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014oh, they do care. In fact, the thing about Instagram\u2014\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I know where you\u2019re going, Bob.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>It ties exactly into what we\u2019re going to talk about today. Last week, we talked with Shannon Popkin about the issue of control, and how that can be an issue for men and women, but particularly for wives and for moms. There\u2019s a second issue, and Instagram is fueling it in our day.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Oh, boy.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>That\u2019s the issue of comparison. So, are you on Instagram? Do you check Instagram once a day, at least?\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes, at least; yes.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>When you\u2019re looking at all these other pictures, what are you thinking?\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I can tell you what she\u2019s thinking.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>She\u2019s thinking, \u201cI wish my husband would do that to our kitchen!\u201d [Laughter] \u201cHey, honey, look what Joe did to his wife!\u201d I don\u2019t even know who Joe is and this woman, but \u201cLook at that kitchen, and he did all this!\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>You can\u2019t look at it without comparing\u2014\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>\u2014everything\u2014whether it\u2019s your house, your home, your kids, your husband\u2014all of those things.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Well, and recently\u2014back last fall, I think it was\u2014that Instagram said, \u201cWe\u2019re going to hide from your followers how many likes you got.\u201d\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>\u2014which I think is smart.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>They were recognizing that this was a drug; it\u2019s to the whole issue of comparison, which we\u2019re going to talk about this week.\n\nShannon Popkin is joining us again; welcome back.\n\n<strong>Shannon: <\/strong>Thank you.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Shannon wrote the book, <em>Control Girl<\/em>, which we talked about last week. She has a band-new book out called <em>Comparison Girl<\/em>. It wasn\u2019t Instagram that drove you to this book, but you know what we\u2019re talking about here.\n\n<strong>Shannon: <\/strong>Absolutely.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Are you on Instagram?\n\n<strong>Shannon: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>When you look at it, does that same comparison thing\u2014\n\n<strong>Shannon: <\/strong>Oh, yes.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>\u2014well up in you? When did you realize that you were a comparison girl?\n\n<strong>Shannon: <\/strong>You know, I think I\u2019ve always struggled with comparison. My earliest childhood memory has little threads of comparison in it. They say that your first memory kind of says something about you\/if that\u2019s what sticks out. My first memory is being in church. I was sitting in the row ahead of my parents\u2014that may say something too\u2014I wanted that independence. I was standing tall, and I was holding my hymn book, and I was singing out really loud. Then there was this woman, who kind of leaned forward from the row behind me, and she took my hymn book and she flipped it right side up.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You had it upside down.\n\n<strong>Shannon: <\/strong>Yes, but <em>I<\/em> did not like that\u2014that she pointed out that I was doing something wrong. I took my hymn book and I flipped it back the other way, like, \u201cThis is the way I like it! Thank you very much.\u201d [Laughter]\n\nI think: \u201cWhy would a four-year-old be concerned about being exposed as illiterate?\u201d\u2014right?\u2014\u201cWhat is it in me that I don\u2019t want anyone to point out any way that I am ever inadequate?\u201d My heart is just bent on this perfectionism; I want everyone to see me as perfect.\n\nThe threads of what was in my little four-year-old self are still in me today: \u201cYou know, why is it that I feel so exposed that someone would think that my house isn\u2019t perfect or that my marriage isn\u2019t perfect?\u201d I\u2019m a middle-aged woman, who\u2014I struggle with my weight\u2014but I don\u2019t want anyone to know that. I mean, isn\u2019t that kind of normal? [Laughter] Isn\u2019t that\u2014I mean, these things that I struggle with, aren\u2019t they just kind of the normal things of life? Yet, I\u2019m <em>bent<\/em> on perfectionism and being <em>seen<\/em> in the eyes of other people as having no flaws.\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I identify with <em>everything<\/em> you\u2019re saying. Here\u2019s the crazy part\u2014is that all of us, as women, have usually struggled with this in some form or another\u2014and what it does is it alienates us from one another. It\u2019s so sad; because I look at women and I think, \u201cLook at the power and the strength that we have if we could lock arms with one another.\u201d Yet, we\u2019re hiding from each other and really hiding who we are.\n\nDo men struggle with this?\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I was going to say, \u201cOf course, we do.\u201d I mean, think about this\u2014as a preacher\u2014\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u2014both of us preach at our churches. We\u2019re old enough to know, back in the day, when we would preach, nobody compared us\/to very few other people.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>They didn\u2019t hear anybody else, unless they went to another church, and they came back and said, \u201cHey, this guy\u2019s really good.\u201d\n\n<em>Now<\/em>, they\u2019re looking at me like, \u201cWe have to listen to him when we could listen to Piper and\u2026?\u201d You know, they can go through a list, and you\u2019re competing with that every day. You talk about comparison; you never measure up.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Here\u2019s the thing that I\u2019ve found for myself. I\u2019m comparison-aware in areas that I really value. In areas that I don\u2019t value, it\u2019s like, \u201cNo big deal.\u201d I look at it and I go, \u201cIf somebody is a better ping-pong player than I am,\u201d\u2014right?\u2014[Laughter] I go, \u201cWell, that\u2019s nice; that\u2019s cool\u201d; I can cheer him on. But if I aspire to be a really good ping-pong player, that\u2019s where, yes, I do get down to the minutiae.\n\nI had a situation, not long ago, where I was hearing about a guy, who had been invited to be an emcee at an event. I was thinking, \u201cWhy didn\u2019t they ask me to be the emcee?\u201d [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Ann: <\/strong>\u2014because you are a really good emcee.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>It\u2019s kind of what I do, you know. [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I wondered why they didn\u2019t ask you.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>But the point is: \u201cYes, in those situations, where you do aspire to be good at something, the comparison monster shows up.\u201d It\u2019s true for both men and women. I think, though, again, for women\u2014we talked about this with control last week\u2014I think there\u2019s something about a woman\u2019s psyche, where she may be more bent and more prone toward this comparison issue.\n\nShannon, you say it\u2019s like a drug; the more you taste it, the more competitive\/the more you want it. You can get sucked in really easily; and now you\u2019re reading Martha Stewart magazine and going, \u201cWhy doesn\u2019t my kitchen look like this?\u201d You\u2019re getting the magazines that have pictures of women and you go, \u201cWhy don\u2019t I look like this?\u201d It\u2019s <em>all<\/em> of these things coming together, and it just puts you under the pile.\n\n<strong>Shannon: <\/strong>Yes, and it can <em>last<\/em> throughout your whole lifetime. You start comparing, as a young mom with a new baby, and then you grow into a mom of teenagers, or a grandma. Even grandmas are comparing their kids! Or you start in a new position and you\u2019re comparing yourself with all the other new hires. By the retirement party, you\u2019re still comparing yourself with the others who are retiring.\n\nIt\u2019s this problem that the more we compare, the more we want to compare. It is not producing anything remotely healthy or happy in our hearts.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>In your book, you outline a number of areas where comparison shows up in your life and in the life of a lot of women. You talk about comparing sins; it\u2019s comparing sins, but comparing righteousness at the same time. It\u2019s looking at others and thinking: \u201cWell, your sin is worse than mine,\u201d or \u201cI\u2019m holier than you,\u201d or \u201cI wish I was as holy as you.\u201d It\u2019s that whole comparison; it\u2019s evaluating our spiritual lives by looking at other people.\n\n<strong>Shannon: <\/strong>Yes; I spoke for a women\u2019s group recently. I asked them to raise their hand on their favorite chapter in the book. I was kind of worried about this comparing sin chapter; I didn\u2019t know if everybody else did it as much as I did. [Laughter] That was the one that most of the women were interested in looking at and reading.\n\nEspecially, I think, as Christians, we tend to compare our righteousness or our sin with others. In the church especially we have this habit of looking at others with this sense of disgust: \u201cI\u2019m so disgusted with my son for this,\u201d or \u201cI\u2019m so disgusted; look, that is so\u2026\u201d We have this <em>tone<\/em> when we look at other people.\n\nIn his book, <em>Age of Outrage<\/em>, Ed Stetzer says, \u201cWe cannot communicate disgust without also communicating something about ourselves\/without communicating a sense of superiority.\u201d We can\u2019t look down at others with disgust without lifting ourselves up\u2014this \u201cMe first,\u201d\u2014me elevating myself. This is so <em>opposite<\/em> of what Jesus calls us to, isn\u2019t it?\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes, the comparison of my sins and your sins\u2014I mean, my experience is that I tend to minimize what are my sins\u2014the areas, where I\u2019m not as prone to sin or don\u2019t have the same temptations, I tend to blow those up as the really bad things that other people do, without recognizing that what the Bible says is all sin is ultimately rebellion against God, and against His goodness, and His purposes.\n\nWhile we can\u2019t say all sins are equal in terms of their damage that they do to us or to others, all sins are equal in terms of what they\u2019re saying about who God is and about who we are. They\u2019re all rebellion against Him, aren\u2019t they?\n\n<strong>Shannon: <\/strong>Yes; in this book, I\u2019m looking at: \u201cWhat does Jesus say about comparison? What is He saying to people who are comparing?\u201d There are lots of instances where people are comparing their sin with somebody else\u2019s sin in the Gospels.\n\nOne of those is when Simon is hosting this dinner. There\u2019s the sinful woman, who comes; and she\u2019s weeping at Jesus\u2019 feet. Simon\u2019s sort of looking down on her with disgust; and then Jesus says, \u201cSimon, I have something to say to you.\u201d Jesus tells this little story, and He tells a story about two people. One of them has a lot of debt; the other one has a little bit of debt. Both of them, though, are in debt; and they can\u2019t pay off their debt.\n\nIn a sense, Jesus is putting Simon and this woman side by side in this story; and He\u2019s saying, \u201cYes, this woman\u2014she has a lot more sin than you do\u2014but you <em>both<\/em> are in exactly the same situation, where you have debt that you cannot pay.\u201d For Simon to look down on her, he\u2019s not recognizing his own [indebtedness]. That\u2019s us; so many times, when we look down at somebody else\u2019s sin, we\u2019re ignoring our own condition. We are men and women, who live with this enormous debt of our own sin. Whether it\u2019s minimal or a lot of sin, none of us can face God or face eternity based on our own merit; we are <em>all<\/em> in a desperate situation.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You talk about what you call \u201csideways disgust.\u201d Explain what that is.\n\n<strong>Shannon: <\/strong>Yes, it\u2019s just constantly looking to the side and looking at other people. I <em>feel<\/em> like I\u2019m looking at them; but ultimately, I\u2019m looking at myself; and I\u2019m measuring myself against them.\n\nI\u2019m so concerned about this disgust factor, I call it, in the church. I think we\u2019ve really grown comfortable with communicating disgust towards people who are outside the church or even those inside the church. I invited some friends to do a Disgust Factor Challenge with me; we went three weeks. We just kind of monitored our faces, and our voice tones, and our heart attitudes for little signs of disgust.\n\nIt was all over the place in our lives! We were so surprised at so many of the things\u2014and not just right and wrong\u2014they were just differences. We tend to want to group up with the people who look like us, and who live in the same neighborhoods with us, or go to the same kind of denomination. We cast this sideways disgust at the people who are not like us.\n\nBut you know what?\u2014in the church of Jesus Christ, every person is celebrated. The church is the most diverse and yet unified group. It\u2019s not uniform\u2014you know, there would be no need for unity if everyone was uniform in the church\u2014that\u2019s what the church is supposed to be like.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes; and where do you think that comes from?\u2014this disgust. I mean, when you say that, we\u2019re all shaking our heads and going: \u201cI\u2019ve done it,\u201d \u201cI\u2019ve felt it.\u201d But worse than me feeling it from others is I\u2019ve done it to others. You mentioned earlier: \u201cI think a lot of people, that are outside the church, that\u2019s one of the reasons they don\u2019t come.\u201d They don\u2019t feel welcome; they feel sort of a judgmental comparison eye. Where does that come from?\n\nI know we talked last week about the control thing being tied back to a curse. Where do you think the comparison gene\u2014because it\u2019s human\u2014where does it come from?\n\n<strong>Shannon: <\/strong>I think it\u2019s the world system that we live in. There\u2019s a ruler of this dark age, and he has set up a world system where he invites us to measure ourselves and compare ourselves. We don\u2019t have a backstory to Satan; but from what we can gather, Satan had authority and prestige in heaven. He was a leader, and yet he was not content with that. He said that he wanted to be lifted up; he wanted to be <em>like<\/em> the Most High.\n\nDo you see that comparison word, \u201clike\u201d? He had the <em>audacity<\/em>, as a created being, to compare himself with God and want to be on par with God. That was the beginning of his fall. Jesus said he fell like a streak of lightning to this world, and he didn\u2019t land on our planet with some new meekness; right? Satan is a liar, and he cannot embrace the truth. He lives out this delusion that somehow he is God\u2019s rival.\n\nHe tries to compete with God, and he throws attacks at God by throwing attacks at us. He comes after us, and he tries to lure us into the same behavior as him. He wanted to lift himself up, and that\u2019s what he tempts us to do the same. He wants us to lift ourselves up\/to constantly be measuring ourselves; and he invites us to <em>prove<\/em> that we are enough, that we have enough, that we are better than others. Then, when we can\u2019t prove that, he shames us\u2014right?\u2014and says, \u201cYou don\u2019t measure up.\u201d Either way, he just tempts us into this continual trap and bondage of measuring ourselves by others.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>It\u2019s really like the disgust part of comparison that you just got at is really rooted in the national religion of hell, according to C.S. Lewis.\n\n<strong>Shannon: <\/strong>Yes.\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>So there\u2019s a sense that I\u2019m better; and yet, if I\u2019m completely humble, it\u2019s the <em>opposite<\/em>: no one would feel disgust from me; they would feel grace, and they\u2019d be drawn in.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>First John has a verse that talks about loving the world, the things of the world, and then it goes on to talk about the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, the boastful pride of life. You ask where this comes from\u2014the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, the boastful pride of life\u2014it\u2019s the comparison with other people.\n\nYou trace that back to when Satan came to Eve in the garden and showed her the fruit. It says it looked good to her; it was desirable. She saw, \u201cThis would make me wise\u201d; so it was appealing to her pride\/to her vanity. Our comparison is that there\u2019s something inside of us that we want to be esteemed. We want people to look at us and think we\u2019re better than we are\u2014and think we\u2019re all that and a bag of chips\u2014right? [Laughter] We <em>want<\/em> folks to think highly of us, and we think the way to do that is through self-aggrandizement rather than saying what Jesus said: \u201cIf you want to be great in the kingdom, you become the servant of all.\u201d That\u2019s when God looks and says, \u201cThere\u2019s a great one right there.\u201d\n\nOne of the areas that you say is a comparison pitfall in your book, <em>Comparison Girl<\/em>\u2014we\u2019re talking to Shannon Popkin about this\u2014you talk about wealth being a comparison issue. Certainly in our culture, we\u2019ve all talked about keeping up with the Joneses and being aware of: the neighbor gets a new car; and instead of going, \u201cGood for them,\u201d we think, \u201cWhen do we get a new car?\u201d\u2014right? [Laughter]\n\n<strong>Shannon: <\/strong>Right; yes. Tim Keller says that you don\u2019t <em>know<\/em> you\u2019re greedy if you are. That was really convicting to me.\n\nWe always talk about ourselves as being blessed. You know, when we have wealth, we\u2019re blessed; but what if we\u2019re just being tested? What if God was saying: \u201cAs you have opportunity to pad your bank account or pad your purse, are you going to love Me with that money, or are you going to love yourself? Are you going to use that wealth?\u2014are you going to use it to measure yourself against others and to be seen as superior, or are you going to give away your wealth?\u201d\n\nI remember reading that part about the camel and the needle; and for the first time, I recognized: \u201cYou know what? Camels are really big, and the eye of a needle is really small. If I have wealth, it means I have that sort of stacked against me. My wealth is actually not to my advantage; it puts me at a disadvantage. It keeps pulling me into measuring myself and trying to prove that I\u2019m superior. The only way to break free from that is to give money away. That\u2019s what frees me of this trap of comparison.\u201d\n\nAlso, thinking about the fact that\u2014when I take my measuring cup full of money and I tip it out, and I pour my wealth out\u2014every little bit is collected in the place where moth and rust cannot destroy. That\u2019s <em>very<\/em> motivating to me.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Now you\u2019ve gone to meddling. [Laughter] I have stuff\u2014when you said, \u201cWhat if, instead of looking at it as blessing, we looked at it as a test?\u201d\u2014I thought, \u201cI don\u2019t know that I\u2019ve ever thought of that\u2014that God gives you wealth and it may be to say: \u2018Okay, let\u2019s see what you do with this. Let\u2019s see how your godliness is going to manifest itself in this. Is it going to be, \u201cWell, I\u2019m sure lucky; I can do things other people can\u2019t do,\u201d or is it going to be generosity and kingdom-focused living?\u2019\u201d\n\nI remember a pastor one time saying most of us look at our bank account and we say, \u201cHow much of what we have are we going to share with God?\u201d instead of saying, \u201cHow much of what God has given to us are we going to keep for ourselves?\u201d Now, there\u2019s a whole different perspective if we say: \u201cOkay, this is not my money; this is God\u2019s money. How much of it do I keep for myself?\u201d \u201cBecause it belongs to God; how much does He want me to spend on me? How much does He want me to spend on advancing His kingdom?\u201d\n\n<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes, and wouldn\u2019t it be radical if, instead of comparing our wealth to our neighbor\u2014you know, because we\u2019re always like, \u201cI hope I have more,\u201d\u2014what if we compared, in a good way, and said, \u201cI hope I can be the most generous\u201d?\n\n<strong>Shannon: <\/strong>Yes! You know what? Jesus invites us to compare in that way. Do you remember the story of the widow at the temple as she brought her two little copper coins? In that day, the temple would give a widow two coins per day for her bread for the day; so this woman was basically saying: \u201cYou know what? I\u2019m going to fast today. I\u2019m going to give generously; I\u2019m going to go without food.\u201d I think it\u2019s interesting she had two; because that means she could have given one and kept one for herself, but she was <em>so generous<\/em>.\n\nJesus, in response to that, calls His disciples over and He says: \u201cHey, look at her! Look at her; she has given more than all the rest of these.\u201d It\u2019s this interesting thing that Jesus invites us to compare in a way that inspires us, not to measure ourselves against each other, but \u201cLet\u2019s be inspired by the generosity of this woman.\u201d He lifts her up. She had humbled herself so drastically, and yet He lifts her up. Let\u2019s be inspired by the people around us who are generous.\n\n<strong>Bob: <\/strong>To that point, comparison can be corrosive and toxic; or if we\u2019re comparing ourselves to what God\u2019s called us to, it can be inspiring. It can be something that\u2019s motivating, to say, \u201cMy goal is to be like Jesus.\u201d Now, there\u2019s a comparison that we are always going to fall short of; but when that\u2019s our goal, not for our glory but for God\u2019s glory, that\u2019s a whole different kind of comparison. That\u2019s why the subtitle of your book is so right: [<em>Lessons<\/em>]<em> from Jesus on Me-Free Living in a Measure-Up World<\/em>. This is not about, \u201cHow do I look good?\u201d; it\u2019s about, \u201cHow does God look good\/how does He look good through me? How do I glorify Him?\u201d\n\nI\u2019m guessing that maybe more than a few of our listeners wrestle with this issue of comparison. Get a copy of Shannon\u2019s book, and maybe go through it with some other women. You can order Shannon\u2019s book from us, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can call to order: 1-800-FL-TODAY is the number. Again, our website is FamilyLifeToday.com. The number to call to order Shannon Popkin\u2019s book, <em>Comparison Girl<\/em>, is 1-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\nNow, the next couple of weeks are going to be pretty significant for us, here at FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>. You\u2019ve heard us, maybe, mention the fact that we\u2019ve had some friends of the ministry, who have come along and offered to match every donation we receive during the month of May, dollar for dollar, up to a total of $345,000. Honestly, this could not come at a better time; because as you might imagine, for ministries like ours, this is a challenging season. This matching gift is hopefully an incentive to get those of you, who are regular <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> listeners, to make a donation so that your donation can be matched dollar for dollar.\n\nIn fact, if you\u2019re a regular listener, and you\u2019ve ever thought about becoming one of our monthly Legacy Partners, now\u2019s a great time to do that. You sign up now as a Legacy Partner, every donation you make for the next year is going to be matched dollar for dollar. <em>And<\/em> you\u2019ll receive a certificate so that you and your spouse can attend an upcoming <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup><\/em> marriage getaway. We do plan to re-engage with those in the fall; that\u2019s our plan at this point. That certificate will be yours to use or to pass along to someone else, if you\u2019d like, when you sign up to become a monthly Legacy Partner, here, at FamilyLife.\n\nIt\u2019s easy to donate; you can go to FamilyLifeToday.com to donate, or call 1-800-FL-TODAY. Everybody who makes a donation or who signs up to become a Legacy Partner, we\u2019d love to send you, as a thank-you gift, Barbara Rainey\u2019s new book, <em>My Heart, Ever His<\/em>, a wonderful collection of prayers that you will find very encouraging in a variety of challenging times and seasons. That book is our gift to you when you make a donation today. We so appreciate you; look forward to hearing from you. Thanks, in advance, for whatever you\u2019re able to do.\n\nNow, tomorrow, we\u2019re going to talk more about comparison. We want to talk about how we can fall into the trap of comparing our kids to other people\u2019s kids; we\u2019ve all done that, right? Shannon Popkin will join us again tomorrow. I hope you can join us as well.\n\nI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back tomorrow for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\n<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\n<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\nWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\n\nCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2020 FamilyLife. 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