{"id":306014,"date":"2020-05-16T07:00:05","date_gmt":"2020-05-16T11:00:05","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/the-language-of-touch\/"},"modified":"2020-05-16T07:00:05","modified_gmt":"2020-05-16T11:00:05","slug":"the-language-of-touch","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-this-week\/the-language-of-touch\/","title":{"rendered":"The Language of Touch"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Have you ever noticed the number of times Jesus used His touch to heal someone? Lore Wilbert talks with Michelle Hill about the spiritually healing nature of touch from one person to another.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":0,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"http:\/\/d2c17sq0nj1f7e.cloudfront.net\/flw2020-05-16.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:28:00","filesize":"25.64M","filesize_raw":"26883035","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2848,2821],"tags":[6905,4197,6904],"podcast_series":[],"cwp_profile":[9623],"series":[10388],"class_list":["post-306014","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","hentry","category-cultural-issues","category-reaching-out","tag-affection","tag-healing","tag-touch","cwp_profile-lore-ferguson-wilbert","series-familylife-this-week"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":false,"episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/10\/FLTW-Podcast-Cover-2-1400x1400-1-300x300-1.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/dts.podtrac.com\/redirect.mp3\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/306014\/the-language-of-touch","player_link":"https:\/\/dts.podtrac.com\/redirect.mp3\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/306014\/the-language-of-touch","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-this-week","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"vELUAdYbgh\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-this-week\/the-language-of-touch\/\">The Language of Touch<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-this-week\/the-language-of-touch\/embed\/#?secret=vELUAdYbgh\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;The Language of Touch&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"vELUAdYbgh\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/flw\/flw2020-05-16.pdf"],"audio_file":["http:\/\/d2c17sq0nj1f7e.cloudfront.net\/flw2020-05-16.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Have you ever been in a conversation that was going great but then, all of a sudden, there was that awkward pause?\u2014like maybe five seconds, or even worse, ten seconds. Awkward! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, author, Lore Wilbert, says that\u2019s not so bad; and it could be freeing.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lore:<\/strong> I think that, when we feel awkward\u2014whether it\u2019s awkward silence or awkward touch or interaction\u2014our sort of natural inclination is just to run away. I\u2019m thinking, an awkward silence in a conversation, sometimes that\u2019s what the other person needs in order to share something that they, maybe, have been afraid to share. I think so much healing happens when we actually walk through the awkwardness or we wait the awkwardness out. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> You know, this may be awkward, but we\u2019re going to talk about touch, even during this time of social distancing; because touch is necessary to life. We\u2019re going to talk with Lore Wilbert on this edition of <em>FamilyLife This Week. <\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWelcome to <em>FamilyLife This Week. <\/em>I\u2019m Michelle Hill. You know, this spring has been a <em>hard<\/em> season for all of us. We have sheltered in place with our families that, well, at times, drove us crazy! But then there are those good memories that you made. Or some have felt locked in with no one else to carry the load; but remember, you struggled to come up with new survival skills. Here\u2019s the fact: \u201cIf you hear my voice right now, you\u2019ve survived!\u201d Yes, like me, you\u2019re probably <em>grieving<\/em> for our nation and for our world; because we have lost <em>so much<\/em>. But we have hope in knowing that God sees our tears; and He is here, right now, in the midst of it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, I don\u2019t want to spend today looking back, but let\u2019s look forward. I talked a while ago with a friend, Lore Wilbert. She has written a book called <em>Handle with Care. <\/em>It\u2019s about the ministry of Jesus, and it\u2019s a book on touch. You know, touch is <em>so <\/em>important! One day soon, when we start getting back together again, there are going to be some people who want to hug, and hug, and hug. Then, there are going to be others, who have been without it for so long, they don\u2019t know how to react; or maybe they\u2019re still dealing with scars from the past. You know, it might not be six-feet social distancing, but maybe they just want to remain the three feet away. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe need to consider how we can really love as Jesus loved. I want you to hear my conversation with Lore Wilbert. It\u2019s a really good conversation on the importance of touch and why touch is necessary in our society, even though we\u2019ve lived without it for so long. Here\u2019s Lore.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Previous Interview]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lore:<\/strong> One of the things I say in the book is that there have been 100 billion lives throughout history, and each of those lives represents a different story. Each of those stories is different. I think we can sometimes sort of imprint our story on someone else; and I think that\u2019s when it gets complicated, when we assume, \u201cOh, they\u2019re operating from the same rubric that I\u2019m operating from.\u201d I think that\u2019s the main reason it\u2019s complicated. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI also think we live in a broken world that is, by God\u2019s grace, on its way to being more healed and whole; but we\u2019re still grappling with the realities of what it means to live in a broken world.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> And it seems to me that there is so much power in touch\u2014power for good or for evil\u2014how can we start redeeming that <em>now<\/em>?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lore:<\/strong> I think, for me, it\u2019s remembering that God\u2019s first act with man and woman was to touch them. He formed Adam from dust, and He formed Eve from bone. When I think about that being a characteristic of God\/an attribute of God that He touches His creation\u2014and then, secondarily, sent Jesus to live as a body among bodies\/as an embodied human\u2014I just think, \u201cMan; this is wildly important to God.\u201d That\u2019s a <em>starting<\/em> place; I don\u2019t think that\u2019s a finishing place.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lore:<\/strong> Or maybe it is! Maybe it\u2019s the start <em>and<\/em> the finish, and then there\u2019s just a lot of stuff in the middle that we need to think about. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Okay.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lore:<\/strong> But I think that\u2019s a good <em>starting<\/em> place\u2014just remember it\u2019s an attribute of God\u2014and not just something that we grapple with as humans.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> That\u2019s a <em>really<\/em> good point, because I don\u2019t think of that as an attribute of God.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lore:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> You know, your words in your book were just incredible; and I think opened my eyes to just how Jesus was sympathetic with His audience. He anticipated their needs; and He reacted to their needs; and He was empathetic with <em>everyone<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s something that, just in modeling who He was, we don\u2019t do a good job of looking out and going, \u201cHow can I help you today?\u201d or \u201cHow can I be that person for you today?\u201d What does it look like to be intentional with our touch like Jesus was?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lore:<\/strong> One of the first things we know about Jesus is God saying down to earth, \u201cThis is my Son, in whom I am well pleased.\u201d Jesus was certain of the love of His Father; that\u2019s a place that we can <em>start<\/em> around the subject\u2014is just to know that we are loved by God. I think that will free us from a whole host of\u2014I think we\u2019re searching for love\u2014we\u2019re searching to be mirrored by someone else; we\u2019re searching to be accepted by others; we\u2019re searching to be understood by others. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think, ultimately, God created us to be humans\u2014to <em>want<\/em> those things; and in some way, <em>need<\/em> those things\u2014but it <em>all<\/em> starts and ends in: \u201cWe\u2019re loved by God.\u201d That\u2019s how Jesus operated. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> And that\u2019s a hard thing to do, especially when we do talk about touch. People tend to be really squeamish about that; or you\u2019re sitting there, going, \u201cI don\u2019t know.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSee, for <em>me<\/em>, my love language is touch; but I grew up in a home where we didn\u2019t hug; we didn\u2019t touch; we didn\u2019t do any of that. How do you get past that barrier, either to receive it or to give it? Because there are times that, you know, I see someone on a Sunday morning, and I\u2019m like, \u201cI\u2019m just going to hold back, because they might not receive it well.\u201d How do we get past that?\u2014that awkwardness, I should say?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lore:<\/strong> I think that it starts with understanding we have a story and everyone else has a story. I think some of it is just that we don\u2019t <em>ask<\/em> people. There are study questions at the end of the book, where I say: \u201cThink about what <em>you<\/em> think: \u2018How much <em>you<\/em> think this person is being touched,\u2019 or \u2018How much <em>you<\/em> think this demographic is being touched,\u2019 or \u2018How they think about touch.\u2019 Now, go ask them; go ask them, and see how disparate your answers may be from one another.\u201d Perhaps, get around people who will ask the same of you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think we all have different levels of desire and levels of need around touch.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lore:<\/strong> But we can\u2019t <em>know<\/em> those things for sure unless we ask. I think asking is a <em>massive<\/em> part of this conversation. It\u2019s an integral part of this conversation\u2014to ask: \u201cCan I put my hand on you?\u201d \u201cCan I hug you?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd that\u2019s the other side of this: my aim isn\u2019t to make everyone huggers or super touchy.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lore:<\/strong> The aim is for us to <em>think<\/em> through these things and then to begin to <em>act<\/em> on these things, beginning with asking permission of others, and asking for what we need or what we feel like we need from others. There\u2019s no shame in that. God made us. We are not omnipresent; we\u2019re not omnipotent; we are not God, so we do <em>need<\/em>. We are humans.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> I appreciate you saying that there\u2019s no shame in it; because, as you were talking, I was like, \u201cThat\u2019s a big risk for some people to go up to somebody else and say: \u2018Hey, let\u2019s talk about touch. Where are you on the spectrum?\u2019\u201d I mean, it does\u2014it seems like\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lore:<\/strong> It\u2019s incredibly vulnerable; yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Right; I\u2019m thinking of a conversation that I had yesterday. I had a follow-up appointment at a doctor\u2019s office. I had your book with me; I was reading it. The doctor stopped me and said, \u201cWhat are you reading?\u201d Then the nurse\u2014her ears perked up\u2014she was like: \u201cWhat is it about? I want to know more!\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe were just talking about touch; and she said, \u201cI am a very touchy person. So if I know that the patient\u2019s going to get bad news, I\u2019m going to surround them, as the doctor is giving that news.\u201d And she said, \u201cIf somebody looks down\/looks like they\u2019ve had a hard day, I will ask them, \u2018Can I hug you?\u2019\u201d She said she\u2019s only had a negative response twice. She said, \u201cIt\u2019s as simple as, \u2018Can I hug you? You look like you\u2019re having a hard day.\u2019\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lore:<\/strong> Yes. One of the stories I open up with is the story of this woman, who goes to the hospital on purpose, for multiple reasons. The pastor, who\u2019s walking with her, asks her: \u201cWhy do you keep doing this? Why do you keep landing in the hospital?\u201d And she says, \u201cI like it when they touch me.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think that\u2019s so, so powerful, just to think about, \u201cOh, man! There are so many people in the world.\u201d It makes me want to cry right now.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lore:<\/strong> It makes me just so sad about the amount of people in the world, who genuinely\u2014I mean, touch is not going to heal all of us, but it sure can heal a <em>lot<\/em> of us\u2014and it sure can bridge these gaps that we create with ideas about who other people are. I mean, we live in such a polarized world right now; it\u2019s polarized by religion, and politics, and all kinds of things. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf we just can reach across and put a hand on someone\u2019s shoulder, or hug them, or even shake their hand in a way that is\u2014I think sometimes you can shake a hand in a way that dominates and exercises power over someone; or you could shake a hand in a way that is very withdrawn, or limp, or weak\u2014I think shaking a hand in a way that is saying\u2014it\u2019s firm: \u201cI\u2019m here; I\u2019m present; I\u2019m with you,\u201d\u2014that\u2019s so important and so underutilized in the world today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Studio]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> I <em>really <\/em>hate to break in here, because I feel like Lore is on this path of really opening my eyes to the power of touch, but we need to take a break. When we come back, we\u2019re going to talk about that healthy, platonic touch in the church\u2014between marrieds, and singles, children, and elderly\u2014all generations of the church. I\u2019ll be back in two minutes with more of my conversation with Lore Wilbert.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Radio Station Spot Break]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle: <\/strong>Welcome back to <em>FamilyLife This Week<\/em>. I'm Michelle Hill. Today, I\u2019m talking with Lore Wilbert about the power of touch. Did you know that some organizations will actually train dogs to go into hospitals and nursing homes?\u2014because they see that the health benefits of touch are endless. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, hugs not only bring a smile to your face, but they can also lift your emotions. That\u2019s <em>exactly<\/em> what Lore Wilbert was talking about. Here\u2019s Part Two of my conversation with Lore Wilbert.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Previous Interview]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lore:<\/strong> I got married at 35, I think. I think a lot of my feelings of loneliness around touch before marriage were rooted in the thought\/in the idea that I thought touch was mainly sexual. I didn\u2019t understand that touch could be\u2014I think I <em>did <\/em>understand that it could be platonic\u2014but I thought my <em>longings<\/em> for it were primarily sexual. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLooking back, I think now, that\u2019s not actually true. Most of our longings for touch begin in a platonic way: we just desire friendship with another; we desire friendship even with our own bodies. We desire just sort of a companionship with one another that can result in some healthy, good, nonsexual, intimate, faithful, God-honoring touch. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think that what ends up happening for a lot of us in single life is that, because we\u2019re not getting that, it can oftentimes lead to looking for sexual touch in unhealthy ways. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> You had mentioned in your book that healthy touch must be practiced. I mean, \u201cmust\u201d is a strong word; it\u2019s an <em>action<\/em>. It\u2019s like, \u201cOkay, let\u2019s go and do this!\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHow does that play out in the church?\u2014because we\u2019re seeing a lot of churches that are dealing with abuse and other things like that. Again, I mean, it\u2019s some of those conversations we\u2019ve already talked about, where you\u2019ve got to ask these questions; but how should this play out in the church?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lore:<\/strong> Well, I think it starts out with: married people need to understand that this is the story that they\u2019re living\/that unmarried people are living. I talk in the book about how it\u2019s a married person\u2019s job, and even an unmarried person\u2019s job, to approach other singles. I think so much we put the onus on singles to approach marrieds\u2014to insert themselves into married family life\u2014we just assume that they\u2019re going to get what they want. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think so much it\u2019s the job of the married people\/it\u2019s the job of the majority to reach out to the minority and say, \u201cHow can I care for you?\u201d and \u201cHow can I love you?\u201d Sometimes it\u2019s as simple as making space for them beside you at church. I think that\u2019s a very small way to say: \u201cI see you. I want to include you. I want to love you. My shoulder is going to be against your shoulder,\u201d\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lore:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cAnd if a point in the sermon is affecting you, I\u2019m going to put my arm around you, the same way that my husband has his arm around me at church.\u201d Those are <em>small<\/em> ways that we can do that; just invite people into those spaces.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut then I think, also, just having candid conversations with them around touch. I\u2019m not even saying engaging them with touch; but having candid conversations around: \u201cHey, how much are you being touched?\u201d \u201cDo you want to be touched?\u201d \u201cWhat are ways in which you are being touched sinfully or touching sinfully, and how can I pray for you and walk with you in that?\u201d\u2014instead of just shaming you or creating a space where shame flourishes by not talking about it at all.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think a lot of the ways that we engage these things are not necessarily, immediately, through touch but just through the conversation around it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> That is so good. It feels so <em>healthy<\/em> to be having these conversations, because there are some times I do long to have some of these conversations. While it is risky\u2014we\u2019ll go back to that word that I used before, \u201cit\u2019s risky\u201d\u2014but I don\u2019t want to be shamed. I want to be able to talk it <em>through<\/em> and not immediately [someone] go: \u201cWell, you know; God says \u2018No,\u2019\u201d\u2014or whatever. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSometimes, in church, it is just to have somebody just sit by me; sometimes it\u2019s just that body heat. At church, I\u2019m thinking\/at times, I\u2019m like, \u201cI just want someone to come and lean up against me.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lore:<\/strong> I think, so often, we live in a world right now, where we forget that we are matter. We forget that we are humans embodied; and we have skin; and we have feeling, and senses, and all those things. We just kind of want to make\/in the church, we want to make everything spiritual. It\u2019s <em>not<\/em> just spiritual. Paul talks about that a lot in the Book of\u2014well, he talks about it all through his epistles\u2014he talks about the physical and the physicality of the world. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI just think it\u2019s remembering that you are embodied; and having someone else to lean against you is a reminder, \u201cOh, I\u2019m a body too.\u201d That\u2019s so good. I mean, that\u2019s good for those, who are unmarried; but that\u2019s good for <em>everyone<\/em> to remember.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Yes; you mentioned that it takes eight seconds of a hug for us to start releasing endorphins.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lore:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Eight seconds is a long time; eight seconds is longer than I think I\u2019ve gotten hugged in a <em>long <\/em>time.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lore:<\/strong> You know what\u2019s interesting? I\u2019ve started doing this with friends; but when I would hug them for eight seconds, what I realized was that, somewhere around like second six, something would change in our physical bodies. The comfort would just\u2014it was like it turned a corner. Then, once you get to eight seconds, you\u2019re like: \u201cWait! Don\u2019t stop. Keep hugging me!\u201d Something happens around second five, six, seven that I think we sort of\u2014that tension starts to release and the fear starts to release. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOf course, you don\u2019t want to hold someone against your will or their will. I mean, that\u2019s not [okay]; you don\u2019t want to ever do that. So if someone wants to be released, we release them. We ask them if they want to be hugged; but I think it\u2019s so important to just remember, some things take time, and that\u2019s okay. It\u2019s okay for something to take eight seconds. Something powerful, physiologically, happens in our body during an eight-second hug. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> That\u2019s powerful! That\u2019s just neat to hear. I don\u2019t remember having an eight second hug or counting one. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lore:<\/strong> Okay, so here\u2019s my encouragement to you: go hug someone and say: \u201cHey, I want to hug you for eight seconds.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Okay!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lore:<\/strong> \u201cCan I hug you for eight seconds?\u201d And then just let it happen! See what happens.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> I will do that; I will do that. There\u2019s a lady, here in the office, who loves to give hugs; so if I\u2019m feeling depleted, I will go and I\u2019ll say, \u201cChristy, I just need a hug today.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lore:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> So I\u2019ll go out to her desk a little bit later on and see\u2014for eight seconds. I\u2019ll take you up on that challenge. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI used to have a roommate, who was really good at watching my moods. Now, she was a night nurse; so I didn\u2019t see her as often. She was a nurse, so she knows people. If I was down, she would just sit and hold me, and let me cry. There were times that she would be like, \u201cI just want you to sit down; I\u2019ll rub your shoulders\u201d; or she played with my hair. It was amazing how touch <em>does<\/em> minister to us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lore:<\/strong> Yes; I was reading in Parker Palmer\u2019s book, <em>Let Your Life Speak<\/em>, a couple of weeks ago. He was talking about a season of severe depression that he was in. He was on medication, so he was trying to move through that space in a healthy way. He said the one thing that was the <em>most<\/em> healing to him was a friend\/a man who would come; each afternoon he would come, and he wouldn\u2019t say very much at all. He asked his permission to do this, but he wouldn\u2019t say very much at all. He would sit in front of him on the floor, and remove his socks and shoes, and he would rub his feet.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe would say things like, \u201cI sense that you\u2019re feeling tense today,\u201d and he would just rub his feet; or \u201cI sense that you\u2019re feeling better today,\u201d and he would just continue to rub his feet. I think that sounds <em>so <\/em>awkward to us!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lore:<\/strong> That\u2019s sounds like something most of us would just <em>never<\/em> do. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut I just think, \u201cMan; I want to have\u2026\u201d\u2014I mean, that\u2019s what Jesus did in washing His disciples\u2019 feet. I want to, not just serve in all the ways that we kind of serve in the church\u2014serve in ministries, and small groups, and all those things\u2014I want to serve with my body. I think that\u2019s important and really lost in our culture today. It\u2019s incredibly healing to be touched by someone\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lore:<\/strong> \u2014an empathetic person, who is truly caring for you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Well, you think about the orphanages and how they ask for volunteers to come and hold babies or touch kids\u2014and while that is important at that young age to be held and to be touched\u2014we don\u2019t ever grow out of that stage of needing to be touched. That\u2019s a <em>really<\/em> good point. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tTalk to us, Lore, about Mary and the waste of expensive oil and Jesus. What is <em>so<\/em> significant for us to understand from that moment in time?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lore:<\/strong> I think the thing that struck me the most in that narrative is that Jesus is in the house of Simon, a Pharisee; so he is a leader in the church. Think about this\u2014like you\u2019re in the house of a high leader in your church\u2014maybe not your pastor, but your pastor\u2019s pastor, or the head of your church network, or whatever\u2014you\u2019re in that house. You\u2019re in a place, where you\u2019re going to care about your reputation; you\u2019re going to care what people think about you. And here\u2019s this woman of the city\u2014who creeps in and is washing and anointing Jesus\u2019 feet and wiping them with her hair\u2014this woman of the city.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou\u2019ve got the highest of the religious high and the lowest of the societal low, and Jesus does not avail Himself to the narrative that could be told about Him, having this happen in the house of a Pharisee. He avails Himself to the woman; His attention is on the woman. His attention is on the care\u2014it\u2019s not even on Himself and the act of her anointing His feet\u2014it\u2019s on <em>her<\/em> and how much she is loving Him.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think so often, we just\u2014and I think, in some ways, rightfully so: we care about our reputation; we want to be above reproach; we want to walk in pure and holy ways\u2014but we can sometimes, I think, avail ourselves to the story we want told about us instead of the thing that God is calling us to do in the moment.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> And I just think, also, the example that she laid before us is that she had to swallow her pride to walk in there and to anoint His feet!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lore:<\/strong> I mean, incredibly vulnerable!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Yes! She had to lay down a lot. It <em>had<\/em> to have been awkward. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think, so many times, that\u2019s what we are afraid of; we are afraid of the <em>awkward<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lore:<\/strong> I think that, when we feel awkward\u2014whether it\u2019s awkward silence or awkward touch or interaction\u2014our sort of natural inclination is just to run away. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lore:<\/strong> I think so much healing happens when we actually walk through the awkwardness or we wait the awkwardness out. I\u2019m thinking of an awkward silence in a conversation; sometimes that\u2019s what the other person needs in order to share something that they have maybe been afraid to share, or maybe it\u2019s what we need just to learn the power of silence for a moment. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThose awkward moments\u2014I think we can just throw things off as: \u201cOh, that\u2019s awkward! I don\u2019t want to do that,\u201d\u2014but I think so many times there\u2019s so much growth for us right in those awkward spaces.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Studio]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Such a powerful reminder from Lore Wilbert about esteeming others <em>highly<\/em>. You know, that reminds me: Philippians 2, verse 3, says, \u201cDo nothing from selfish ambition or conceit, but in humility, count others more significant than yourselves.\u201d Really, what Lore is talking about is that touch is powerful; it helps us connect to one another. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, if Jesus used touch to minister to others, well, we can too. I just challenge you: I challenge you to consider how Jesus used touch, but look for areas in your life, where you can do the same. Touch, and be a part of what Christ is doing in someone else\u2019s life. There is <em>power<\/em> in touch. If Christ is our example, then we should be using touch, for the good, to minister to others.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDietrich Bonhoeffer once said these words: \u201cThe first service one owes to others in a community involves listening to them. Just as our love for God begins with listening to God\u2019s Word, the beginning of love for others is learning to listen to them.\u201d Next week, we\u2019re going to spend some time with a man, who wrote about this great man, Dietrich Bonhoeffer. We\u2019re going to spend some time with Eric Metaxas. He has a specific call to the church right now\u2014a call to joy! I hope you can join us for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThanks for listening. I want to thank the president of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, David Robbins, along with our station partners around the country. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOur program is a production of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, and our mission is to effectively develop godly families who change the world one home at a time.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI'm Michelle Hill, inviting you to join me again next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife This Week.<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"about:blank\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2020 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"about:blank\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:28:00"],"show_notes":[""],"filesize":["25.64M"],"filesize_raw":["26883035"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-306014.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-306014.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: 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you ever noticed the number of times Jesus used His touch to heal someone? Lore Wilbert talks with Michelle Hill about the spiritually healing nature of touch from one person to another.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/flw\/flw2020-05-16.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Have you ever been in a conversation that was going great but then, all of a sudden, there was that awkward pause?\u2014like maybe five seconds, or even worse, ten seconds. Awkward! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, author, Lore Wilbert, says that\u2019s not so bad; and it could be freeing.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lore:<\/strong> I think that, when we feel awkward\u2014whether it\u2019s awkward silence or awkward touch or interaction\u2014our sort of natural inclination is just to run away. I\u2019m thinking, an awkward silence in a conversation, sometimes that\u2019s what the other person needs in order to share something that they, maybe, have been afraid to share. I think so much healing happens when we actually walk through the awkwardness or we wait the awkwardness out. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> You know, this may be awkward, but we\u2019re going to talk about touch, even during this time of social distancing; because touch is necessary to life. We\u2019re going to talk with Lore Wilbert on this edition of <em>FamilyLife This Week. <\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWelcome to <em>FamilyLife This Week. <\/em>I\u2019m Michelle Hill. You know, this spring has been a <em>hard<\/em> season for all of us. We have sheltered in place with our families that, well, at times, drove us crazy! But then there are those good memories that you made. Or some have felt locked in with no one else to carry the load; but remember, you struggled to come up with new survival skills. Here\u2019s the fact: \u201cIf you hear my voice right now, you\u2019ve survived!\u201d Yes, like me, you\u2019re probably <em>grieving<\/em> for our nation and for our world; because we have lost <em>so much<\/em>. But we have hope in knowing that God sees our tears; and He is here, right now, in the midst of it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, I don\u2019t want to spend today looking back, but let\u2019s look forward. I talked a while ago with a friend, Lore Wilbert. She has written a book called <em>Handle with Care. <\/em>It\u2019s about the ministry of Jesus, and it\u2019s a book on touch. You know, touch is <em>so <\/em>important! One day soon, when we start getting back together again, there are going to be some people who want to hug, and hug, and hug. Then, there are going to be others, who have been without it for so long, they don\u2019t know how to react; or maybe they\u2019re still dealing with scars from the past. You know, it might not be six-feet social distancing, but maybe they just want to remain the three feet away. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe need to consider how we can really love as Jesus loved. I want you to hear my conversation with Lore Wilbert. It\u2019s a really good conversation on the importance of touch and why touch is necessary in our society, even though we\u2019ve lived without it for so long. Here\u2019s Lore.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Previous Interview]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lore:<\/strong> One of the things I say in the book is that there have been 100 billion lives throughout history, and each of those lives represents a different story. Each of those stories is different. I think we can sometimes sort of imprint our story on someone else; and I think that\u2019s when it gets complicated, when we assume, \u201cOh, they\u2019re operating from the same rubric that I\u2019m operating from.\u201d I think that\u2019s the main reason it\u2019s complicated. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI also think we live in a broken world that is, by God\u2019s grace, on its way to being more healed and whole; but we\u2019re still grappling with the realities of what it means to live in a broken world.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> And it seems to me that there is so much power in touch\u2014power for good or for evil\u2014how can we start redeeming that <em>now<\/em>?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lore:<\/strong> I think, for me, it\u2019s remembering that God\u2019s first act with man and woman was to touch them. He formed Adam from dust, and He formed Eve from bone. When I think about that being a characteristic of God\/an attribute of God that He touches His creation\u2014and then, secondarily, sent Jesus to live as a body among bodies\/as an embodied human\u2014I just think, \u201cMan; this is wildly important to God.\u201d That\u2019s a <em>starting<\/em> place; I don\u2019t think that\u2019s a finishing place.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lore:<\/strong> Or maybe it is! Maybe it\u2019s the start <em>and<\/em> the finish, and then there\u2019s just a lot of stuff in the middle that we need to think about. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Okay.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lore:<\/strong> But I think that\u2019s a good <em>starting<\/em> place\u2014just remember it\u2019s an attribute of God\u2014and not just something that we grapple with as humans.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> That\u2019s a <em>really<\/em> good point, because I don\u2019t think of that as an attribute of God.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lore:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> You know, your words in your book were just incredible; and I think opened my eyes to just how Jesus was sympathetic with His audience. He anticipated their needs; and He reacted to their needs; and He was empathetic with <em>everyone<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s something that, just in modeling who He was, we don\u2019t do a good job of looking out and going, \u201cHow can I help you today?\u201d or \u201cHow can I be that person for you today?\u201d What does it look like to be intentional with our touch like Jesus was?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lore:<\/strong> One of the first things we know about Jesus is God saying down to earth, \u201cThis is my Son, in whom I am well pleased.\u201d Jesus was certain of the love of His Father; that\u2019s a place that we can <em>start<\/em> around the subject\u2014is just to know that we are loved by God. I think that will free us from a whole host of\u2014I think we\u2019re searching for love\u2014we\u2019re searching to be mirrored by someone else; we\u2019re searching to be accepted by others; we\u2019re searching to be understood by others. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think, ultimately, God created us to be humans\u2014to <em>want<\/em> those things; and in some way, <em>need<\/em> those things\u2014but it <em>all<\/em> starts and ends in: \u201cWe\u2019re loved by God.\u201d That\u2019s how Jesus operated. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> And that\u2019s a hard thing to do, especially when we do talk about touch. People tend to be really squeamish about that; or you\u2019re sitting there, going, \u201cI don\u2019t know.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSee, for <em>me<\/em>, my love language is touch; but I grew up in a home where we didn\u2019t hug; we didn\u2019t touch; we didn\u2019t do any of that. How do you get past that barrier, either to receive it or to give it? Because there are times that, you know, I see someone on a Sunday morning, and I\u2019m like, \u201cI\u2019m just going to hold back, because they might not receive it well.\u201d How do we get past that?\u2014that awkwardness, I should say?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lore:<\/strong> I think that it starts with understanding we have a story and everyone else has a story. I think some of it is just that we don\u2019t <em>ask<\/em> people. There are study questions at the end of the book, where I say: \u201cThink about what <em>you<\/em> think: \u2018How much <em>you<\/em> think this person is being touched,\u2019 or \u2018How much <em>you<\/em> think this demographic is being touched,\u2019 or \u2018How they think about touch.\u2019 Now, go ask them; go ask them, and see how disparate your answers may be from one another.\u201d Perhaps, get around people who will ask the same of you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think we all have different levels of desire and levels of need around touch.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lore:<\/strong> But we can\u2019t <em>know<\/em> those things for sure unless we ask. I think asking is a <em>massive<\/em> part of this conversation. It\u2019s an integral part of this conversation\u2014to ask: \u201cCan I put my hand on you?\u201d \u201cCan I hug you?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd that\u2019s the other side of this: my aim isn\u2019t to make everyone huggers or super touchy.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lore:<\/strong> The aim is for us to <em>think<\/em> through these things and then to begin to <em>act<\/em> on these things, beginning with asking permission of others, and asking for what we need or what we feel like we need from others. There\u2019s no shame in that. God made us. We are not omnipresent; we\u2019re not omnipotent; we are not God, so we do <em>need<\/em>. We are humans.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> I appreciate you saying that there\u2019s no shame in it; because, as you were talking, I was like, \u201cThat\u2019s a big risk for some people to go up to somebody else and say: \u2018Hey, let\u2019s talk about touch. Where are you on the spectrum?\u2019\u201d I mean, it does\u2014it seems like\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lore:<\/strong> It\u2019s incredibly vulnerable; yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Right; I\u2019m thinking of a conversation that I had yesterday. I had a follow-up appointment at a doctor\u2019s office. I had your book with me; I was reading it. The doctor stopped me and said, \u201cWhat are you reading?\u201d Then the nurse\u2014her ears perked up\u2014she was like: \u201cWhat is it about? I want to know more!\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe were just talking about touch; and she said, \u201cI am a very touchy person. So if I know that the patient\u2019s going to get bad news, I\u2019m going to surround them, as the doctor is giving that news.\u201d And she said, \u201cIf somebody looks down\/looks like they\u2019ve had a hard day, I will ask them, \u2018Can I hug you?\u2019\u201d She said she\u2019s only had a negative response twice. She said, \u201cIt\u2019s as simple as, \u2018Can I hug you? You look like you\u2019re having a hard day.\u2019\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lore:<\/strong> Yes. One of the stories I open up with is the story of this woman, who goes to the hospital on purpose, for multiple reasons. The pastor, who\u2019s walking with her, asks her: \u201cWhy do you keep doing this? Why do you keep landing in the hospital?\u201d And she says, \u201cI like it when they touch me.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think that\u2019s so, so powerful, just to think about, \u201cOh, man! There are so many people in the world.\u201d It makes me want to cry right now.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lore:<\/strong> It makes me just so sad about the amount of people in the world, who genuinely\u2014I mean, touch is not going to heal all of us, but it sure can heal a <em>lot<\/em> of us\u2014and it sure can bridge these gaps that we create with ideas about who other people are. I mean, we live in such a polarized world right now; it\u2019s polarized by religion, and politics, and all kinds of things. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf we just can reach across and put a hand on someone\u2019s shoulder, or hug them, or even shake their hand in a way that is\u2014I think sometimes you can shake a hand in a way that dominates and exercises power over someone; or you could shake a hand in a way that is very withdrawn, or limp, or weak\u2014I think shaking a hand in a way that is saying\u2014it\u2019s firm: \u201cI\u2019m here; I\u2019m present; I\u2019m with you,\u201d\u2014that\u2019s so important and so underutilized in the world today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Studio]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> I <em>really <\/em>hate to break in here, because I feel like Lore is on this path of really opening my eyes to the power of touch, but we need to take a break. When we come back, we\u2019re going to talk about that healthy, platonic touch in the church\u2014between marrieds, and singles, children, and elderly\u2014all generations of the church. I\u2019ll be back in two minutes with more of my conversation with Lore Wilbert.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Radio Station Spot Break]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle: <\/strong>Welcome back to <em>FamilyLife This Week<\/em>. I'm Michelle Hill. Today, I\u2019m talking with Lore Wilbert about the power of touch. Did you know that some organizations will actually train dogs to go into hospitals and nursing homes?\u2014because they see that the health benefits of touch are endless. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, hugs not only bring a smile to your face, but they can also lift your emotions. That\u2019s <em>exactly<\/em> what Lore Wilbert was talking about. Here\u2019s Part Two of my conversation with Lore Wilbert.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Previous Interview]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lore:<\/strong> I got married at 35, I think. I think a lot of my feelings of loneliness around touch before marriage were rooted in the thought\/in the idea that I thought touch was mainly sexual. I didn\u2019t understand that touch could be\u2014I think I <em>did <\/em>understand that it could be platonic\u2014but I thought my <em>longings<\/em> for it were primarily sexual. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLooking back, I think now, that\u2019s not actually true. Most of our longings for touch begin in a platonic way: we just desire friendship with another; we desire friendship even with our own bodies. We desire just sort of a companionship with one another that can result in some healthy, good, nonsexual, intimate, faithful, God-honoring touch. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think that what ends up happening for a lot of us in single life is that, because we\u2019re not getting that, it can oftentimes lead to looking for sexual touch in unhealthy ways. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> You had mentioned in your book that healthy touch must be practiced. I mean, \u201cmust\u201d is a strong word; it\u2019s an <em>action<\/em>. It\u2019s like, \u201cOkay, let\u2019s go and do this!\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHow does that play out in the church?\u2014because we\u2019re seeing a lot of churches that are dealing with abuse and other things like that. Again, I mean, it\u2019s some of those conversations we\u2019ve already talked about, where you\u2019ve got to ask these questions; but how should this play out in the church?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lore:<\/strong> Well, I think it starts out with: married people need to understand that this is the story that they\u2019re living\/that unmarried people are living. I talk in the book about how it\u2019s a married person\u2019s job, and even an unmarried person\u2019s job, to approach other singles. I think so much we put the onus on singles to approach marrieds\u2014to insert themselves into married family life\u2014we just assume that they\u2019re going to get what they want. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think so much it\u2019s the job of the married people\/it\u2019s the job of the majority to reach out to the minority and say, \u201cHow can I care for you?\u201d and \u201cHow can I love you?\u201d Sometimes it\u2019s as simple as making space for them beside you at church. I think that\u2019s a very small way to say: \u201cI see you. I want to include you. I want to love you. My shoulder is going to be against your shoulder,\u201d\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lore:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cAnd if a point in the sermon is affecting you, I\u2019m going to put my arm around you, the same way that my husband has his arm around me at church.\u201d Those are <em>small<\/em> ways that we can do that; just invite people into those spaces.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut then I think, also, just having candid conversations with them around touch. I\u2019m not even saying engaging them with touch; but having candid conversations around: \u201cHey, how much are you being touched?\u201d \u201cDo you want to be touched?\u201d \u201cWhat are ways in which you are being touched sinfully or touching sinfully, and how can I pray for you and walk with you in that?\u201d\u2014instead of just shaming you or creating a space where shame flourishes by not talking about it at all.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think a lot of the ways that we engage these things are not necessarily, immediately, through touch but just through the conversation around it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> That is so good. It feels so <em>healthy<\/em> to be having these conversations, because there are some times I do long to have some of these conversations. While it is risky\u2014we\u2019ll go back to that word that I used before, \u201cit\u2019s risky\u201d\u2014but I don\u2019t want to be shamed. I want to be able to talk it <em>through<\/em> and not immediately [someone] go: \u201cWell, you know; God says \u2018No,\u2019\u201d\u2014or whatever. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSometimes, in church, it is just to have somebody just sit by me; sometimes it\u2019s just that body heat. At church, I\u2019m thinking\/at times, I\u2019m like, \u201cI just want someone to come and lean up against me.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lore:<\/strong> I think, so often, we live in a world right now, where we forget that we are matter. We forget that we are humans embodied; and we have skin; and we have feeling, and senses, and all those things. We just kind of want to make\/in the church, we want to make everything spiritual. It\u2019s <em>not<\/em> just spiritual. Paul talks about that a lot in the Book of\u2014well, he talks about it all through his epistles\u2014he talks about the physical and the physicality of the world. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI just think it\u2019s remembering that you are embodied; and having someone else to lean against you is a reminder, \u201cOh, I\u2019m a body too.\u201d That\u2019s so good. I mean, that\u2019s good for those, who are unmarried; but that\u2019s good for <em>everyone<\/em> to remember.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Yes; you mentioned that it takes eight seconds of a hug for us to start releasing endorphins.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lore:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Eight seconds is a long time; eight seconds is longer than I think I\u2019ve gotten hugged in a <em>long <\/em>time.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lore:<\/strong> You know what\u2019s interesting? I\u2019ve started doing this with friends; but when I would hug them for eight seconds, what I realized was that, somewhere around like second six, something would change in our physical bodies. The comfort would just\u2014it was like it turned a corner. Then, once you get to eight seconds, you\u2019re like: \u201cWait! Don\u2019t stop. Keep hugging me!\u201d Something happens around second five, six, seven that I think we sort of\u2014that tension starts to release and the fear starts to release. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOf course, you don\u2019t want to hold someone against your will or their will. I mean, that\u2019s not [okay]; you don\u2019t want to ever do that. So if someone wants to be released, we release them. We ask them if they want to be hugged; but I think it\u2019s so important to just remember, some things take time, and that\u2019s okay. It\u2019s okay for something to take eight seconds. Something powerful, physiologically, happens in our body during an eight-second hug. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> That\u2019s powerful! That\u2019s just neat to hear. I don\u2019t remember having an eight second hug or counting one. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lore:<\/strong> Okay, so here\u2019s my encouragement to you: go hug someone and say: \u201cHey, I want to hug you for eight seconds.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Okay!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lore:<\/strong> \u201cCan I hug you for eight seconds?\u201d And then just let it happen! See what happens.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> I will do that; I will do that. There\u2019s a lady, here in the office, who loves to give hugs; so if I\u2019m feeling depleted, I will go and I\u2019ll say, \u201cChristy, I just need a hug today.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lore:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> So I\u2019ll go out to her desk a little bit later on and see\u2014for eight seconds. I\u2019ll take you up on that challenge. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI used to have a roommate, who was really good at watching my moods. Now, she was a night nurse; so I didn\u2019t see her as often. She was a nurse, so she knows people. If I was down, she would just sit and hold me, and let me cry. There were times that she would be like, \u201cI just want you to sit down; I\u2019ll rub your shoulders\u201d; or she played with my hair. It was amazing how touch <em>does<\/em> minister to us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lore:<\/strong> Yes; I was reading in Parker Palmer\u2019s book, <em>Let Your Life Speak<\/em>, a couple of weeks ago. He was talking about a season of severe depression that he was in. He was on medication, so he was trying to move through that space in a healthy way. He said the one thing that was the <em>most<\/em> healing to him was a friend\/a man who would come; each afternoon he would come, and he wouldn\u2019t say very much at all. He asked his permission to do this, but he wouldn\u2019t say very much at all. He would sit in front of him on the floor, and remove his socks and shoes, and he would rub his feet.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe would say things like, \u201cI sense that you\u2019re feeling tense today,\u201d and he would just rub his feet; or \u201cI sense that you\u2019re feeling better today,\u201d and he would just continue to rub his feet. I think that sounds <em>so <\/em>awkward to us!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lore:<\/strong> That\u2019s sounds like something most of us would just <em>never<\/em> do. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut I just think, \u201cMan; I want to have\u2026\u201d\u2014I mean, that\u2019s what Jesus did in washing His disciples\u2019 feet. I want to, not just serve in all the ways that we kind of serve in the church\u2014serve in ministries, and small groups, and all those things\u2014I want to serve with my body. I think that\u2019s important and really lost in our culture today. It\u2019s incredibly healing to be touched by someone\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lore:<\/strong> \u2014an empathetic person, who is truly caring for you.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Well, you think about the orphanages and how they ask for volunteers to come and hold babies or touch kids\u2014and while that is important at that young age to be held and to be touched\u2014we don\u2019t ever grow out of that stage of needing to be touched. That\u2019s a <em>really<\/em> good point. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tTalk to us, Lore, about Mary and the waste of expensive oil and Jesus. What is <em>so<\/em> significant for us to understand from that moment in time?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lore:<\/strong> I think the thing that struck me the most in that narrative is that Jesus is in the house of Simon, a Pharisee; so he is a leader in the church. Think about this\u2014like you\u2019re in the house of a high leader in your church\u2014maybe not your pastor, but your pastor\u2019s pastor, or the head of your church network, or whatever\u2014you\u2019re in that house. You\u2019re in a place, where you\u2019re going to care about your reputation; you\u2019re going to care what people think about you. And here\u2019s this woman of the city\u2014who creeps in and is washing and anointing Jesus\u2019 feet and wiping them with her hair\u2014this woman of the city.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou\u2019ve got the highest of the religious high and the lowest of the societal low, and Jesus does not avail Himself to the narrative that could be told about Him, having this happen in the house of a Pharisee. He avails Himself to the woman; His attention is on the woman. His attention is on the care\u2014it\u2019s not even on Himself and the act of her anointing His feet\u2014it\u2019s on <em>her<\/em> and how much she is loving Him.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think so often, we just\u2014and I think, in some ways, rightfully so: we care about our reputation; we want to be above reproach; we want to walk in pure and holy ways\u2014but we can sometimes, I think, avail ourselves to the story we want told about us instead of the thing that God is calling us to do in the moment.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> And I just think, also, the example that she laid before us is that she had to swallow her pride to walk in there and to anoint His feet!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lore:<\/strong> I mean, incredibly vulnerable!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Yes! She had to lay down a lot. It <em>had<\/em> to have been awkward. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think, so many times, that\u2019s what we are afraid of; we are afraid of the <em>awkward<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lore:<\/strong> I think that, when we feel awkward\u2014whether it\u2019s awkward silence or awkward touch or interaction\u2014our sort of natural inclination is just to run away. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Lore:<\/strong> I think so much healing happens when we actually walk through the awkwardness or we wait the awkwardness out. I\u2019m thinking of an awkward silence in a conversation; sometimes that\u2019s what the other person needs in order to share something that they have maybe been afraid to share, or maybe it\u2019s what we need just to learn the power of silence for a moment. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThose awkward moments\u2014I think we can just throw things off as: \u201cOh, that\u2019s awkward! I don\u2019t want to do that,\u201d\u2014but I think so many times there\u2019s so much growth for us right in those awkward spaces.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Studio]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Michelle:<\/strong> Such a powerful reminder from Lore Wilbert about esteeming others <em>highly<\/em>. You know, that reminds me: Philippians 2, verse 3, says, \u201cDo nothing from selfish ambition or conceit, but in humility, count others more significant than yourselves.\u201d Really, what Lore is talking about is that touch is powerful; it helps us connect to one another. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, if Jesus used touch to minister to others, well, we can too. I just challenge you: I challenge you to consider how Jesus used touch, but look for areas in your life, where you can do the same. Touch, and be a part of what Christ is doing in someone else\u2019s life. There is <em>power<\/em> in touch. If Christ is our example, then we should be using touch, for the good, to minister to others.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDietrich Bonhoeffer once said these words: \u201cThe first service one owes to others in a community involves listening to them. Just as our love for God begins with listening to God\u2019s Word, the beginning of love for others is learning to listen to them.\u201d Next week, we\u2019re going to spend some time with a man, who wrote about this great man, Dietrich Bonhoeffer. We\u2019re going to spend some time with Eric Metaxas. He has a specific call to the church right now\u2014a call to joy! I hope you can join us for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThanks for listening. I want to thank the president of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, David Robbins, along with our station partners around the country. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOur program is a production of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, and our mission is to effectively develop godly families who change the world one home at a time.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI'm Michelle Hill, inviting you to join me again next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife This Week.<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"about:blank\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2020 FamilyLife. 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