{"id":306004,"date":"2020-05-13T07:00:04","date_gmt":"2020-05-13T11:00:04","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/getting-closer-to-god-and-each-other\/"},"modified":"2020-05-13T07:00:04","modified_gmt":"2020-05-13T11:00:04","slug":"getting-closer-to-god-and-each-other","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/getting-closer-to-god-and-each-other\/","title":{"rendered":"Getting Closer to God and Each Other"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Dave and Ann Wilson want couples to know that when they draw closer to God, they will become closer to their spouses emotionally and sexually.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2020-05-13.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:30:39","filesize":"28.06M","filesize_raw":"29426735","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2849,2902,2088,2862],"tags":[4095,2877,4116,4115,4113],"podcast_series":[7170],"cwp_profile":[3647],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-306004","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-drifting-apart","category-resolving-conflict","category-romance-and-sex","category-understanding-differences","tag-love-stories","tag-marriage","tag-past-sexual-experiences","tag-sexual-intimacy","tag-vertical-marriage","podcast_series-vertical-marriage","cwp_profile-dave-and-ann-wilson","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/306004\/getting-closer-to-god-and-each-other","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/306004\/getting-closer-to-god-and-each-other","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"af0nWOddof\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/getting-closer-to-god-and-each-other\/\">Getting Closer to God and Each Other<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/getting-closer-to-god-and-each-other\/embed\/#?secret=af0nWOddof\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Getting Closer to God and Each Other&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"af0nWOddof\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg",508,508,false]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"kfairris@familylife.com","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/kfairrisfamilylife-com\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"Dave and Ann Wilson want couples to know that when they draw closer to God, they will become closer to their spouses emotionally and sexually.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2020-05-13.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>For more and more couples getting married today, promiscuity is a part of their past\/part of their experience. Ann Wilson says, when that is the case, you\u2019re bringing challenges with you into marital intimacy.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong><a id=\"_Hlk262148\">We carried all of that into our wedding bed\/in our marriage bed. It was like it was crowded with other people. I felt so insecure; I felt like there was competition. I felt like, \u201cWas this other girl better than <em>me<\/em>?\u201d I felt so fearful and I worried: \u201cWill he be unfaithful to me? He had multiple partners before; will I be able to trust him?\u201d There were many, many different consequences that we suffered through.<\/a>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Wednesday, May 13<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I\u2019m Bob Lepine. You\u2019ll find us online at FamilyLifeToday.com. Sometimes, we are completely unaware of how sins from our past still affect our relationship ten, or twenty, or even thirty years later. We\u2019ll hear more about that today. Stay with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. Well, we\u2019re right there; aren\u2019t we? We\u2019re listening, this week, to a conversation that Dennis Rainey and his wife Barbara and I had with you guys, Dave and Ann Wilson. This was more than a year ago; right after your book, <em>Vertical Marriage<\/em>, was released. This was right after you had gone to New York to be on the <em>Today Show<\/em>\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, yes; that\u2019s right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014to talk about the book. Do you remember? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Dave:<\/strong> Oh, we remember. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I remember because Dave could not sleep the night after that interview. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; I came home, and you know\u2014it\u2019s live. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> There are four million-some people watching; and you have regrets, like, \u201cOh, I wish I hadn\u2019t said this.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; what did you wish you hadn\u2019t said? [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I ended up in some crazy story to a question they asked that ended up\u2014I mean, it\u2019s a beautiful part of our marriage, where Ann was creative in the area of\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014intimacy. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014being romantic in our marriage. You know, later, I just felt like, \u201cWhy did I end up going there?\u201d Ann kept saying to me\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Because that\u2019s where he <em>always<\/em> ends up going, Bob. [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Okay; that\u2019s the end of that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We\u2019re actually going to hear a little bit about intimacy and challenges with intimacies. You\u2019ve experienced challenges; all of us have experienced challenges in this area in our marriage. You talk about it in the book, <em>Vertical Marriage<\/em>. There\u2019s now a video series for couples called <em>Vertical Marriage<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup>. That\u2019s a five-part video series that can be used for small groups or adult ed. You guys are transparent; but you\u2019re appropriate in addressing this subject. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes, it\u2019s a tricky subject. You have to be very careful because it\u2019s emotional; there have been many wounds\u2014even in our marriage and in our life in this area\u2014so we wanted to honor God in how we talk about this. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, this was just a few weeks before you guys became the new hosts of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> that we had this conversation with Dennis and Barbara. You talked about the challenges you\u2019d experienced in this area. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Previous <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>Broadcast] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>We tend to think about this aspect of marriage in\u2014can I say?\u2014functional terms <em>rather<\/em> than thinking about it in <em>mystical<\/em> terms. There is something profoundly mystical about intimacy in marriage and the impact it has, for good or for ill, on oneness between a couple; isn\u2019t there?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a id=\"_Hlk260707\"><strong>Dave:<\/strong><\/a>Yes; one of the things that I <em>never<\/em> knew until I really dove into Scripture on sex\u2014because I grew up, like most people probably, hearing from the church that sex is wrong, bad, evil. I <em>never<\/em> expected that the Bible would talk about sex in such beautiful, glorious, mysterious terms. Then, as I started to study it, this is one of the most amazing, beautiful, intimate gifts God ever gave us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, so many people hear that; and they can\u2019t even appreciate that, because it\u2019s been warped\u2014it\u2019s hurt and there\u2019s\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>\u2014pain.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u2014pain and abuse; but God\u2019s original intent was <em>absolutely<\/em> incredible. I <em>never<\/em> learned this in school. I remember, in sixth grade, they did the birds-and-the-bees talk\u2014they had a little thing\u2014and you are all embarrassed, as a 12-year-old boy, because they\u2019re talking about fallopian tubes. Anyway, I <em>never<\/em> heard this\u2014<em>nobody<\/em> ever told me this that: \u201cWhen you make love\u201d\u2014and this can be in your marriage or outside your marriage\u2014\u201cyou are\/there\u2019s a <em>soul<\/em> connection.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt is, like Bob said, <em>mysterious<\/em>. How in the world is it deeper than physical?\u2014which is why it has to be so protected; because you\u2019re <em>messing<\/em> with your soul here. If it\u2019s a one-night stand or a committed marriage relationship, you\u2019re giving <em>everything<\/em>\u2014not just physical\u2014but spiritual, even soul-ish to that person. That\u2019s why God says, \u201cProtect this.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>It\u2019s one of the reasons why you guys, early in your marriage, struggled in this area. As you\u2019ve shared, you started your marriage the way most couples start marriage today\u2014having already been sexually-active with other people. You brought that into your marriage; and now, the two becoming one has all kinds of baggage attached to it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes; we had <em>no<\/em> idea\/no idea how our past sexual experiences would bring luggage\/baggage\u2014pain into our new marriage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Well, I don\u2019t think anybody talks about it. I mean, our world is saturated with sex, with pornography, with things on TV, at the movies, everything. Nobody talks about the pain\u2014whether it\u2019s sexual abuse, whether it\u2019s addiction to pornography. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut for Dave and I, what happened was\u2014we carried all of that into our wedding bed\/in our marriage bed. It was like it was crowded with other people. I felt so insecure. I felt like there was competition. I felt like, \u201cWas this other girl better than <em>me<\/em>?\u201d I felt so fearful, and I worried: \u201cWill he be unfaithful to me? He had had multiple partners before; will I be able to trust him?\u201d There were many, many different consequences that we suffered through.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I remember, one time, we went to a wedding\u2014probably six or eight months after our wedding\u2014and we\u2019re sitting in this church. I could tell something was wrong with Ann\u2014like she\u2019s not enjoying this. When we get in the car to drive home, I go, \u201cWhat were you thinking?\u201d She goes, \u201cI was just looking round the church; and I saw three or four women that you have been with.\u201d For me, it\u2019s like: \u201cWell, it\u2019s all in the past. It\u2019s all done.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWell, guess what? That is the past, but the past is <em>right here<\/em>. If I could have taken those back in that second, I would; but I <em>couldn\u2019t<\/em>. Now, we are in this marriage; we\u2019ve got to deal with, not just, you know, how hard it is to be married now; we\u2019ve brought stuff <em>in<\/em> that we\u2019ve got to work through. You think it\u2019s just the bedroom; it\u2019s <em>so much<\/em> deeper than the bedroom.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>What is \u201c<em>deal with<\/em>\u201d mean?\u2014what does that look like? I mean, when you\u2019ve got this, and you\u2019re there\u2014and you go: \u201cOkay; we know this is here. We know this is a part of our past. We don\u2019t like that it is a part of our past; we can feel it affecting our marriage now,\u201d\u2014do we go to a marriage counselor? What do you do to get to the point where you can be together, as husband and wife, and that bed is no longer crowded?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>My answer\u2014my first answer would be: \u201cWe talk.\u201d We talked this through. Again, I would not encourage a couple to go into details about your past; but I needed to let Ann know enough, and she needed to share with me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOne of the things I was so na\u00efve was about abuse. Again, I thought: \u201cWell, Ann has had some abuse in her past. It\u2019s <em>way back<\/em> there\u201420 years ago. It will not affect today.\u201d Oh, as a spouse, I need to understand: \u201cWhat do you think? How do you feel? How can I <em>love<\/em> you?\u201d She\u2019s feeling the same thing toward me. There\u2019s a lot of talking\u2014we talked about it previously. We had to get to a place of forgiveness with each other and then being able to let that go and move forward. But again, it started with hearing, listening, and trying to lovingly be a partner to one another.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I think, too, I love that God has do-overs. I love that He renews our mind, like Romans 12 says. I love that, with time, we heal. I think, because of our honesty and openness, that helped. I think a lot of people should go to a counselor, who can be a third party\u2014to be a neutral voice\u2014and to help them walk through some issue that might be hard to discuss. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen we were in seminary, we were taking classes about how to be a counselor. In some of those classes, that\u2019s when the abuse came up. It <em>flooded<\/em> me. I was overwhelmed; because I had tucked it away, not thinking that it was doing anything to harm my marriage and our intimacy. But it was doing a lot. I think that Dave was overwhelmed with my barrage of emotions and feeling like I was tainted. I had so much shame and embarrassment, and it was hard.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>I\u2019m thinking about people listening to this and thinking to themselves: \u201cI\u2019m\/we\u2019re not going to talk about\u2014I\u2019m not going to have this conversation with my spouse. I mean, first of all, there\u2019s shame and guilt on my part. I don\u2019t want to revisit that. Secondly, it\u2019s just going to drive the wedge <em>deeper<\/em> between us, because it\u2019s going to bring hurt and pain to the other person\u2014\u2018Why haven\u2019t you ever told me about this?\u2019\u2014and all.\u201d So they go: \u201cNo; no. The safest thing to do is to try to keep this walled off. As long as nobody ever knows that any of this happened, we can muddle along with what we\u2019re doing.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou\u2019re saying that\u2019s the wrong answer?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes; I\u2019m saying I totally understand that thought\u2014I\u2019ve been there. It takes courage to say, \u201cI\u2019m scared to even bring this up\u2026.\u201d Again, you don\u2019t need to go into details, and every couple is different about what needs to be revealed; but it\u2019s like\u2014get on your knees; ask God for wisdom; ask God for strength; and open your mouth and say: \u201cWe need to talk.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGod will meet you right in the moment of your fear, and He will walk you through. We are closer today than we ever would have been if we\u2019d never brought this up or gone through that journey. Part of it is because we\u2019ve decided to go there with each other as honestly as we could.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I was going to ask you, Barbara and Dennis\u2014you guys have been married longer than we have\u2014I see it as having hills and valleys in our relationship with intimacy. How have you guys\u2014do you find that\u2019s true?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara: <\/strong>Yes; I definitely think it\u2019s an up-and-down experience. I think that, as you grow and you change, there are more discoveries to be made about one another. I completely agree with what you both have said about being transparent in that area of your relationship, because we have done that too. It has made such a difference; because the more you are known, the more you feel safe; and the more you feel safe, then you can experience intimacy. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you don\u2019t feel safe, and you don\u2019t feel known and welcomed, then you can\u2019t go to the intimacy\u2014it\u2019s a progression. You can\u2019t jump instantly into intimacy without first crossing those bridges of safety and knowing one another. Yes; I agree with you totally.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>I think you are touching on where most men miss it in this area. I think men do not understand the need for his wife to be safe and to feel safe as she gives herself to her husband. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFirst John, Chapter 4:18 says: \u201cThere is no fear in love but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love.\u201d I think the husband, who is finding things are not going well with his wife in the bedroom, needs to ask his wife: \u201cDo you feel safe with me? Do you trust me? Can you give yourself wholeheartedly to me? If not, what am I doing that is creating fear?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Oh, that\u2019s a courageous thing to ask.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>It really is, and then listen. Listen carefully to what is said and what isn\u2019t said, because the real assignment of a husband, I think\u2014he is commanded to love his wife as Christ loved the church. If our assignment is to love; and 1 John 4 says, \u201cPerfect love casts out fear,\u201d your assignment is to present your wife, before Christ, holy, blameless, without spot. That means there are no spots of fear. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Dennis, what you just said\u2014I <em>never<\/em> understood what made her feel loved. I\u2014and we got into fights about this\/about the sexual part of our relationship\u2014is I wanted her to be more interested in sex. It felt like I wanted it more and she wasn\u2019t. Of course, we got little kids, and I have <em>no<\/em> understanding of what she\u2019s carrying around; I am just like frustrated. Yet, I didn\u2019t know that a woman longs to be cherished and loved. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI honestly thought, \u201cWell, making love makes you feel loved.\u201d I\u2019ll never forget the day we read\u2014I don\u2019t know if it\u2019s still out there\u2014you might know if Willard Harley\u2019s book, <em>His Needs, Her Needs,<\/em> still exists.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>Yes; it does.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>But I remember picking it up. He had the <a id=\"_Hlk339863\">\u201cTop Five Needs of a <\/a>Woman\u201d \/ \u201cTop Five Needs of a Man,\u201d He is like: \u201cTop Five Needs of a Man\u201d\u2014number one: \u2018Sex.\u2019\u201d And then I look at the woman\u2019s, and she doesn\u2019t have sex in the top five. Ann remembers this\u2014I brought the book to her. So, I\u2019m like: \u201cOkay; help me understand this. I look at his top five needs for men, and he says sex is number one; and I have to agree. I think he\u2019s right. Sex isn\u2019t even in your top five! Why isn\u2019t it in your top five?\u201d You remember?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>She looked at me and says, \u201cOh! It\u2019s number one, two, and three.\u201d Number one for a woman: \u201cAffection: Non-sexual Touch,\u201d which I had to ask Ann, \u201cWhat is that?!\u201d [Laughter] I didn\u2019t even <em>know<\/em>; you know? It is like holding hands, and putting your arm around her, and just being close\u2014it\u2019s like affection\u2014number one. Number two: \u201cConversation\u201d\u2014that\u2019s talking\/communicating. Number three: \u201cHonesty and Openness.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes; those two\u2014those second two\u2014we want to know you\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014and we want our husbands to know <em>us<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>And I was mad at her. What she had every right to do is go: \u201cYou aren\u2019t affectionate,\u201d \u201cWe never talk,\u201d \u201cI don\u2019t know your heart.\u201d When I realized, \u201cI am not being Christ\/I am not serving my wife,\u201d\u2014to say: \u201cIf that\u2019s her number-one need\u2014sacrificially love her\u201d\u2014then it\u2019s going to end up better, even in the bedroom; but that isn\u2019t the goal; it was like\u2014\u201cI want her to feel cherished and loved; that\u2019s what sex is to my wife.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>So you hear those three things\u2014for a man who doesn\u2019t get it, how can a wife help him understand?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>That\u2019s kind of where we were. When I said, \u201cThose are the top three. Like when we talk, that\u2019s romance. When you just touch my arm, open a door, and hold my hand\u2014I feel like you love me and you are pursuing me\u201d; and I remember saying: \u201cIt feels like you don\u2019t pursue me anymore. You pursue me, sexually; but you don\u2019t pursue me, relationally, and that really hurts and makes me feel unloved.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOkay; let\u2019s talk to the wives. They\u2019ve told their husbands that. How do we encourage them, <em>Barbara<\/em>? [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara: <\/strong>Thanks, <em>Ann<\/em>! [Laughter] You know, I don\u2019t know\u2014I mean, it\u2019s a hard one; because we are so different. We\u2019ve had that conversation\u2014Dennis and I have\u2014multiple times because our needs are just different, but that\u2019s the way God made us. If we really love each other, then we need to learn to speak each other\u2019s language\/love language. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut I think, too, it\u2019s also being patient, and trusting God\u2019s timing, and praying that God will open our husband\u2019s eyes and ears to see and understand. I think we live in such an instant culture, too\u2014that that\u2019s part of the problem. We expect change to be really fast, and sometimes it\u2019s not. Sometimes it is, but sometimes it\u2019s not.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>In our marriage we\u2019ve been having this conversation for decades and growing! I mean, I\u2019m sort of excited about the next decade, as strange as that may sound. We\u2019ve grown, and grown, and grown, and\u2014not <em>groan<\/em>! [Laughter] We have matured, over the years, in this area. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI really would say to the guys\u2014and it\u2019s true both ways: \u201cStep up!\u201d\u2014it\u2019s that simple. It\u2019s like: \u201cThe bedroom and the sexual relationship is not about me,\u201d\u2014it really isn\u2019t. I want a Philippians 2 in every area of my marriage, including the bedroom. I want to consider her needs more important than my needs. That\u2019s what Christ did for us, and He modeled that for us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, Christ lives in me. It\u2019s about <em>her<\/em> feeling loved. Again, you have a spouse reciprocating that, you\u2019re going to have a beautiful sexual relationship. If they don\u2019t, it isn\u2019t about them. It\u2019s like, \u201cI want to love them in such a way that they feel valued and cherished.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Someone may say] \u201cI\u2019m not an affectionate guy,\u201d\u2014it doesn\u2019t matter\u2014she is and longs for it. So I\u2019m going to step up and be Christ to her and give affection, even if it\u2019s not my natural bent.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Studio] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, again, we\u2019ve been listening to a conversation we had a little more than a year ago. Dennis and Barbara Rainey and I talked with Dave and Ann Wilson right as their book, <em>Vertical Marriage<\/em>, was being released. There is now a video series that accompanies that book. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019ve had this experience, when we speak on this subject at <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> getaways, couples are so appreciative when we open the door on this and talk candidly and biblically about this in an appropriate context; because so many of them are trapped with questions, or insecurities, or shame, or whatever; and when the physical intimacy in your marriage is not working, that affects <em>everything<\/em> about your marriage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; it\u2019s\u2014you know, as we all know, everybody else is talking about it. The culture is\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014<em>constantly<\/em> talking about it; and often, it\u2019s\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014in an inappropriate way; right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; and it\u2019s often not truth; so, \u201cWhat is God\u2019s heart?\u2014what is God\u2019s truth on this?\u201d It <em>needs<\/em> to be discussed, and it can really help people. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br><strong>Ann:<\/strong> Well, the first time that Dave and I went to the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> marriage conference, it was in Chicago. I was 19; Dave was 22. I did not grow up in the church; I didn\u2019t grow up attending a church. The first time we sat in this session on sexual intimacy, it was the first time I had ever heard God\u2019s game plan for intimacy in a marriage. It was mind-blowing to me; because I had <em>never<\/em> heard this before, because I had only heard the world\u2019s plan. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And I have to think, as you guys get together tomorrow night, and for the next three weeks, with listeners for a small group that you are going to be hosting, the question of God\u2019s plan for intimacy is probably going to show up in the small group conversation at some point over the next three weeks. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>Dave and Ann are going to be hosting, on Thursday nights, for the next three weeks\u2014starting tomorrow night and then continuing in May after that\u2014they are going to be hosting a small group around <em>Vertical Marriage<\/em>. You can sign up to be a part of that small group; it\u2019s going to meet at eight o\u2019clock [pm] CT. And when you sign up to be part of the small group, which will be a Facebook<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> group, you\u2019ll have access to the first session of the <em>Vertical Marriage<\/em> series, which you can watch whenever you\u2019d like. Then, when you come to the small group, everybody will have watched Session One; and the conversation can begin from there. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tGo to FamilyLifeToday.com. I don\u2019t know if you\u2019re a part of a small group right now\u2014if your small group has been meeting online, or if you just haven\u2019t been meeting for a while, or you\u2019re meeting out in somebody\u2019s driveway\u2014whatever is happening\u2014you can join an online small group that Dave and Ann are going to be hosting. It starts tomorrow night and continues for three weeks. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com for all the information, and that will get you access to the first session from <em>Vertical Marriage<\/em> that you\u2019ll need to watch before the small group begins; okay? All of that make sense? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, the website: FamilyLifeToday.com is where you can get the information. If you have any questions, call us at 1-800-FL-TODAY. If you want a copy of Dave and Ann\u2019s book, <em>Vertical Marriage<\/em>, that\u2019s available for order, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; and then the complete video series is also available for anybody who wants to use that in a small group or a Sunday school class in the summer of fall, whenever those start up again. All the information is available on the website at FamilyLifeToday.com; or again, call if you have any questions: 1-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, we\u2019ve got the president of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, David Robbins, here with us; and this online small group thing that we\u2019re doing with Dave and Ann starting tomorrow night\u2014we\u2019re not the first people to come up with creative ways to employ the video series and to get people gathered together for a small group, even while we\u2019re socially distanced. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> Yes; it\u2019s been really neat to hear from different couples, who started leading it when it was launched earlier this year. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014when they could still get together with their friends. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> That\u2019s right. Then, midway, we started hearing people moved to Zoom groups and do all these creative things. One couple from California said this: \u201cRecently, we hosted FamilyLife\u2019s new small group study, <em>Vertical Marriage<\/em>, with ten couples and had to move it to Zoom due to COVID-19.\u201d They said, \u201cIt was an incredible small group and laid the foundation for what we are now walking through.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThey went on to say: \u201cWe watched the FamilyLife TV episode, after we finished <em>Vertical Marriage<\/em>, about grieving at a distance. Our discussions led to such sweet moments together, talking about grief that we are experiencing now and in our past.\u201d Then she said: \u201cEveryone in the group opened up and shared things that they\u2019ve been holding on to, and almost every single one of us broke down and cried in some way. Our relationships grew deeper and deeper as we shared together.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis was all over Zoom and then walking faithfully together, being friends together in this unique time. I just think it makes the point that it doesn\u2019t have to be fancy; you certainly don\u2019t have to have it all together. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> Every one of us can take the intentional step of faith to lead a small group\/to gather a group of people and say, \u201cHey; I want to grow in my marriage; do you?\u201d <em>Vertical Marriage<\/em> video series is <em>such<\/em> a great resource\/easy resource in order to connect with other couples and have really intentional conversations. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, as hard as navigating the coming months may still be, we are seeing families hunger for God and growing together more than they have in a <em>very<\/em> long time. That\u2019s our prayer\u2014that through this season, families will grow closer to God, stronger together, and will serve their neighbors with compassion and the gospel. Thank <em>you<\/em> for being a significant part of what God is doing in the home in our day. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You know who is making all of this possible\u2014is friends of FamilyLife who are continuing to support this ministry during these challenging times. We are so grateful for those of you who are monthly Legacy Partners and those of you who, from time to time, will get in touch with us and make a donation so that we can continue to effectively develop godly marriages and families, who change the world one home at a time. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRight now, if you\u2019re able to help with a donation, we\u2019d love to say, \u201cThank you,\u201d by sending you a copy of Barbara Rainey\u2019s new book, which is called <em>My Heart, Ever His<\/em>. It\u2019s a book about praying. It\u2019s actually a book of prayers for some of the difficult circumstances we face in life. The book is our thank-you gift when you go online today to make a donation at FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can call to donate at 1-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we hope you can join us back, again, tomorrow when we\u2019re going to talk about what is a challenge for a lot of people, particularly a lot of wives and moms. It\u2019s the issue of wanting to be in control of life, and kids, and even your husband. Shannon Popkin joins us to talk about how she has wrestled with being a control girl. I hope you can join us for that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2020 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/306004","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=306004"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=306004"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=306004"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=306004"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=306004"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=306004"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=306004"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}