{"id":305997,"date":"2020-05-11T07:00:04","date_gmt":"2020-05-11T11:00:04","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/shut-up-and-repent\/"},"modified":"2020-05-11T07:00:04","modified_gmt":"2020-05-11T11:00:04","slug":"shut-up-and-repent","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/shut-up-and-repent\/","title":{"rendered":"Shut Up and Repent"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>Guest: Dave and Ann Wilson | Series: Vertical Marriage | Dave and Ann Wilson, authors of the book &#8220;Vertical Marriage,&#8221; look back on a turning point in their marriage. At the time, they had two children, Dave was starting a church, and he served as a chaplain for the Detroit Lions. Ministry demands occupied much of his time, and Ann was feeling the strain of his absence. Dave takes us back to his big wake up call, and together they share what they did to get their marriage back on track.<\/p>\n<p>Show Notes and Resources<\/p>\n<p> \tJoin the Vertical Marriage Facebook group. https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/vertical-marriage-fb-group\/<br \/>\n \tCheck out all that&#8217;s available on the FamilyLife Podcast Network.\u00a0 https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/familylife-podcast-network\/<br \/>\n \tHave the FamilyLife Today\u00ae podcast and resources helped you?\u00a0 Consider becoming a Legacy Partner, a monthly supporter of FamilyLife.\u00a0https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/legacy<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Dave and Ann Wilson look back on a turning point in their marriage. Dave takes us back to his big wake up call, and together they share what they did to get their marriage back on track.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2020-05-11.mp3","podmotor_file_id":"","podmotor_episode_id":"","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:31:52","filesize":"29.18M","filesize_raw":"30601474","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2849,2902,2862],"tags":[4110,4095,2877,4112,4111,4113],"podcast_series":[7170],"cwp_profile":[3647],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-305997","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-drifting-apart","category-resolving-conflict","category-understanding-differences","tag-fell-out-of-love","tag-love-stories","tag-marriage","tag-protecting-your-marriage","tag-repentance","tag-vertical-marriage","podcast_series-vertical-marriage","cwp_profile-dave-and-ann-wilson","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/305997\/shut-up-and-repent","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/305997\/shut-up-and-repent","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"7WurmlTQzv\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/shut-up-and-repent\/\">Shut Up and Repent<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/shut-up-and-repent\/embed\/#?secret=7WurmlTQzv\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Shut Up and Repent&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"7WurmlTQzv\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"uagb_featured_image_src":{"full":["https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg",508,508,false]},"uagb_author_info":{"display_name":"kfairris@familylife.com","author_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/author\/kfairrisfamilylife-com\/"},"uagb_comment_info":0,"uagb_excerpt":"Dave and Ann Wilson look back on a turning point in their marriage. Dave takes us back to his big wake up call, and together they share what they did to get their marriage back on track.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2020-05-11.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Ann Wilson and her husband Dave had been married for a decade, and there was an ongoing persistent source of conflict in their marriage. She called it the merry-go-round. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> The merry-go-round was: \u201cI feel like you\u2019re never home. The boys need you. I need you. You\u2019re gone. You\u2019re doing all this stuff for everybody else, and <em>we<\/em> <em>need you<\/em> at home.\u201d Then Dave would get angry\u2014he\u2019d get mad and he\u2019d say, \u201cI am home!\u201d\u2014he\u2019d defend himself. I\u2019d say, \u201cNo; you\u2019re not home!\u201d And that would just end. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFor a long time that had happened, where I was so angry. My anger turned to resentment; my resentment turned to bitterness; and my bitterness turned to <em>nothing<\/em>\u2014just a hard, crusty heart.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Tuesday, May 11<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I'm Bob Lepine. You\u2019ll find us online at FamilyLifeToday.com. What do we do, as couples, when our hearts have become hardened toward one another? We\u2019ll talk more about that today. Stay with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. We\u2019re going to revisit a <em>classic<\/em> story today\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I don\u2019t know about classic, Bob. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014a defining moment in the Wilson marriage. <em>You<\/em> would say this was legacy defining.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; didn\u2019t know it at the moment, when it happened, but now looking back, it changed <em>everything<\/em>\u2014not only in our marriage, but I believe in our sons\u2019 marriages and our legacy.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I first heard you share this story at a <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> getaway. This was more than a decade ago, where you were sharing this with folks. I thought, \u201cThat\u2019s a powerful story.\u201d When we sat down to map out the <em>Art of Marriage<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> video series, we thought, \u201cWhat are the stories we need to include?\u201d I thought, \u201cWe should have Dave and Ann tell that story about their anniversary.\u201d You shared that; that got shared in the <em>Art of Marriage<\/em>. There have been more than a million people who have seen that in the <em>Art of Marriage.<\/em>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes, a million people have seen the worst moment in our marriage. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Thanks, Bob. Also, it was <em>you<\/em> who said to us, \u201cThat\u2019s a book, you know,\u201d\u2014which we had no idea; we\u2019re thinking, \u201cNo, it\u2019s not.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> A year ago, you released the book, <em>Vertical Marriage<\/em>, and this story\u2019s at the center of that. Now, there\u2019s a video series for small groups called <em>Vertical Marriage<\/em> that\u2019s five sessions, where you unpack the themes from the book.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> The best thing about the video series in some ways is\u2014you read these stories in the book, you don\u2019t get to hear them\u2014now, you get to hear them, especially from my wife Ann, who brings all kinds of visuals onto the stage and creates magical moments. You get to watch them.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You can find out more about the book, <em>Vertical Marriage<\/em>, and about the <em>Vertical Marriage<\/em> video series when you go to FamilyLifeToday.com. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI thought today we ought to listen back to the conversation we had about this chapter in your life. This was before you became the hosts of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Oh, yes; we sat on the other side of this table. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes, with you and Dennis.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And we were scared to death, and it\u2019s even scarier being on <em>this <\/em>side of the table. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Dennis Rainey and I got a chance to talk to you about this chapter in your life and in your marriage. We\u2019re going to listen back to Dennis and me interviewing the two of you about this turning point.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Previous <em>FamilyLife Today <\/em>Broadcast]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> If I had asked you, Ann\u2014ten years into your marriage\u2014did you think you had a good marriage, ten years in?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>No; at ten years in, I was very disappointed. I was frustrated; I was angry. I felt a lot of guilt too. We were starting this church. Dave was starting it in terms of he was putting the time and energy into it. We had two kids at the time\u2014they were little; they were three and one\u2014I\u2019m trying to keep the home front steady and still helping Dave as we start this church. He was gone a lot\u2014and more and more. He was also the chaplain for the Detroit Lions, and so he was traveling with the team. He was doing chapels; we were both leading Bible studies for them. Then we had all this church stuff on top of that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen you\u2019re in ministry, especially, it feels like you\u2019re competing with God; because all the things Dave was doing were wonderful, godly, <em>amazing<\/em> things that were expanding God\u2019s kingdom. I felt very selfish and self-centered to say, \u201cWe need you at home.\u201d I did say it, and I said it very loud; didn\u2019t I? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Oh, she yelled it\u2014she did! She\u2019s being nice right now. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, an interesting thing for me\u2014and you heard this in the<em> Art of Marriage<\/em>\u2014is I was clueless to this. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> You thought your marriage, on a 10-point scale, was what?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I would have said a 10 or a 9.8; and I guaranteed you, Ann agreed. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> There you go. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Here\u2019s what I thought\u2014when we first got married, we struggled <em>big time<\/em>\u2014went to the <em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> as an engaged couple; thought we\u2019d just whiz into marriage and make it work\u2014six months in, we\u2019re fighting so much I go downstairs at three in the morning because I can\u2019t sleep. I get on my knees, and I open the Word of God.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I walked in the room\u2014I see him on his knees and I\u2019m like: \u201cThank you, Jesus! He\u2019s finally on his knees,\u201d\u2014you know? [Laughter] I see him; I\u2019m so excited to see him: \u201cLook at you. You\u2019re in the Word; you\u2019re praying.\u201d He goes: \u201cI\u2019ve just been reading God\u2019s Word, where Paul said, \u2018To live is Christ and to die is gain.\u2019 I just told God, \u2018God, I\u2019d rather be dead than married to Ann.\u2019\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara:<\/strong> Well, that wasn\u2019t what you were expecting; was it? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Who says that out loud to their wife?! [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara:<\/strong> Wow!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I hear that now and I\u2019m like, \u201cWhat an idiot!\u201d I <em>cannot<\/em> believe I said it. I mean, I prayed it\u2014I really did pray that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Why were you so miserable six months in? What was it that wasn\u2019t happening for you?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Everything. [Laughter] I mean, we were your typical couple\u2014madly in love and you have these expectations you don\u2019t even realize you\u2019re bringing in\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014and baggage\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014<em>and<\/em> baggage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014so much baggage.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You know, reality doesn\u2019t match up to expectations; there\u2019s this gap. I filled the gap with \u201cI married the wrong person.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And so did I! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You were miserable, because he wasn\u2019t the man you thought he was? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think it\u2019s that, and I think he had\u2014we were fighting, and he\u2019d leave the room. I\u2019d be thinking: \u201cWhere are you going?! We\u2019re supposed to work this out.\u201d We had differences in our past\/in our sexual past. I have abuse in my background, and so I felt insecure. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tLet me add\u2014if someone would have asked <em>me<\/em> [rating the marriage], I would have said a 1 and maybe a .5. I was so angry that Dave didn\u2019t know how bad we were doing. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Before we jump back into year ten, there are folks, who are just saying: \u201cOkay; how did you get out of, six months in, \u2018I wish I was dead and not married,\u2019 to six months later being, \u2018Okay; we\u2019ve got this back on track\u2019?\u201d What happened in the intervening six months that helped <em>fix<\/em> some of those early problems?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> What actually happened\u2014and it sounds simplistic\u2014but we <em>really<\/em> did pull out the manual\/the FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup><em>Weekend to Remember<\/em> manual. I\u2019m not saying it\u2019s magic and it\u2019s got all the answers, but it was our only source of \u201cWhat does God\u2019s Word really say?\u201d Two things happened\u2014one: we pulled it out and said, \u201cOkay; let\u2019s start at block one. What are the five threats?\u201d We\u2019re like: \u201cWow! All of these are hitting us. What does God want to do?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNumber two was\u2014we started teaching it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> There\u2019s people that want help. \u201cWe\u2019re not able to help them, because we\u2019re not far enough ahead of them,\u201d\u2014that\u2019s what we felt\u2014but we\u2019re like, \u201cWe can give them what we\u2019ve got!\u201d As we taught it, we internalized it. It literally started changing our life\u2014it really did.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> It changed <em>everything<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Now, I want to go back to your tenth year. You had this <em>glorious<\/em> evening planned for you and Ann. You actually went out to eat and had the guy who served you armed with ten roses. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes, I had this deal with the waiter when I walked in. I gave him ten roses; and I said, \u201cWhen I give you a look, bring over one rose at a time.\u201d He brought rose number one, and we talked about year number one. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tActually, and then he did that with year two, year three, all the way through ten. I would have told you\u2014I don\u2019t know what Ann would say\u2014I was like: \u201cIt\u2019s a great night. We are talking.\u201d It was all memories of the first ten years that were good. We didn\u2019t go dark. We went to the best memories of our ten years. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; you were killing it! I think that the waiter was like, \u201cThis dude is <em>amazing<\/em>!\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; I was giving him a <em>lesson<\/em> in romance; right? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Were you starting to soften and go, \u201cYou know, he really is a wonderful guy, and I really am lucky to be married to him\u201d?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, Bob, I wish I could say yes; but no! My heart was <em>so hard<\/em> that, intellectually in my mind, I thought: \u201cThis is good. This is a good try\u201d; but it didn\u2019t go into my heart, thinking, \u201cI really like you now.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> So you finished the ten roses. You decide you\u2019re going to take your wife out and go show her the building to start this church.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> Actually, you have ulterior motives even in that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And even Ann figured it out. We\u2019re driving home\u2014and another surprise\u2014we pull in the parking lot. We are about to start our church, Kensington, in a middle school. Ann had not seen this middle school; our team had decided this. I thought: \u201cThis will be cool. We\u2019ll park here. We\u2019ll <em>pray<\/em> about God doing a miracle in that school and building the church.\u201d And then I thought, \u201cWe\u2019ll go park.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019re in a little Honda Accord, so it was a little tight. I remember leaning over to kiss her, and she turns her head. Again, I\u2019m so oblivious to what\u2019s <em>really<\/em> in her heart. I think she just didn\u2019t even realize I\u2019m trying to kiss her. I didn\u2019t even think that she didn\u2019t want to kiss me, so I try again. She definitely turns her head. That\u2019s when I had the wits about me to go: \u201cOkay, something\u2019s wrong here. I don\u2019t need to be a genius.\u201d I just said to her, \u201cIs something wrong?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> My first response was, \u201cNo,\u201d because he had put <em>great<\/em> effort into making this night wonderful; and it was. I didn\u2019t want to <em>wreck<\/em> it for him. He said again, \u201cBut it seems like there\u2019s something wrong.\u201d To be honest, I didn\u2019t want him to touch me; that\u2019s how far gone I was. Finally, he looked at me; he said, \u201cSeriously, what\u2019s up?!\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI just was quiet for a while and I thought, \u201cAlright; here we go.\u201d I said: \u201cI\u2019ve lost all my feelings for you. I have <em>nothing<\/em>, and I don\u2019t know what to do.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019m sitting there, and it was as quiet as it just was; because number one, I can\u2019t believe what I\u2019m hearing. Again, I have <em>no idea<\/em> this is what\u2019s going on in her heart, although there were symptoms and signs for the last year\u2014at least, the last six months\u2014that I did not see; because my eyes were so driven on everything outside my home, except my wife, and she\u2019s being left in the dust. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen she said that, at first, I was like\u2014because she said, \u201cYou\u2019re gone a lot, and I\u2019m putting the boys to bed without you,\u201d\u2014I literally turned with my right arm to reach into the back seat, where my planner was\u2014back in the days when you had your schedule in your planner\u2014that\u2019s where it was. This is what I did in arguments\u2014if I stayed around long enough to argue, I would win it. I was going to pull that baby out; I really was reaching back there to pull it out. I was going to open it up and prove her wrong: \u201cI have been home. I was home Monday. I was home last\u2026\u201d\u2014you know, because I knew it was in there. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019m reaching back there to grab it, and this is where this thing turns\u2014it was <em>amazing<\/em> what happens. It\u2019s only happened to me a few times in my life\u2014I sensed the voice of God; it wasn\u2019t audible\u2014it was just a strong Holy Spirit nudge, but it was so strong. I knew exactly what He was saying\u2014it was two words: \u201cShut up!\u201d It was that strong: \u201cShut up! Don\u2019t you touch that planner. Listen!\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnn didn\u2019t even know this; I just went like this\u2014I went and just put my hand back in my lap\u2014and I said: \u201cTell me more. What do you mean by that?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Well, it was really interesting on my end, too; because I saw him reaching in the back. I thought: \u201cOh, here we go. Here goes the merry-go-round,\u201d that we were always getting on. The merry-go-round was: \u201cI feel like you\u2019re never home\u2014the boys need you; I need you\u2014you\u2019re gone. You\u2019re doing all this stuff for everybody else, and <em>we need<\/em> <em>you<\/em> at home.\u201d Then Dave would get angry\u2014he\u2019d get mad and he\u2019d say, \u201cI am home!\u201d\u2014he\u2019d defend himself. I\u2019d say, \u201cNo; you\u2019re not home!\u201d And that would just end. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFor a long time that had happened, where I was so angry. My anger turned to resentment; my resentment turned to bitterness; and my bitterness turned to <em>nothing<\/em>\u2014just a hard, crusty heart. When he turned around and he said, \u201cTell me what you mean,\u201d that was the first time he\u2019s ever said that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI shared all that: \u201cI feel like you\u2019re not home. I feel like I\u2019m parenting alone. I feel like you\u2019re off winning the world, and you\u2019ve left me behind. I\u2019m mad about it; I\u2019m resentful; I\u2019m angry\u2014it\u2019s all of it. I don\u2019t even care anymore. I\u2019m not saying I\u2019ll divorce you, but I\u2019m saying I have no hope that our marriage will ever be good.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Again, I didn\u2019t say a word\u2014not a word\u2014because I\u2019d heard very strongly from God: \u201cShut up. Just zip your lip and listen.\u201d I just listened and, again, I heard the voice of God\u2014it was so strong, because He said it several times: \u201cRepent.\u201d It was interesting\u2014it was like strong but <em>gracious<\/em>\u2014just like the heart of the Father. You know, it was like, \u201cThis is very serious, but I love you; and I\u2019m calling you out of where you\u2019ve been living.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOf course, Ann doesn\u2019t know this; she\u2019s just sharing. I\u2019m looking at her, and I\u2019m hearing this. I knew\u2014when I heard the word, repent, I knew God was saying: \u201cYou\u2019re lukewarm. You preach it; you teach it\u2014you\u2019re not living it. You\u2019re not opening the Word of God to just love Me and let Me love you. You\u2019re opening the Word of God to get a message to go give somebody; so they\u2019ll pat you on the back and say, \u2018You\u2019re amazing.\u2019 You pray [only]\u2018Help me,\u2019 prayers.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, this is all in one word. I knew, in this one word, here\u2019s what God was saying: \u201cIf you want the horizontal relationship in your marriage\u201d\u2014and anything, really, to work\u2014\u201cI have to be first, vertically. I have to be number one. It\u2019s <em>never<\/em> going to work without Me being the center and the rock. What you preach has to be real.\u201d All that was in one word, and I knew it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis: <\/strong>When you say \u201cMe,\u201d you\u2019re saying <em>God<\/em> wants to be the center.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> God <em>has<\/em> to be the center\u2014vertical first; that\u2019s the whole concept of vertical marriage\u2014is: \u201cWhat would happen if you went vertical with God and really established a relationship with Him? Then, out of that, overflow that into your marriage.\u201d All that was in one word.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, I didn\u2019t know all the implications of that; but I knew this: \u201cI needed to repent <em>right<\/em> <em>now<\/em>.\u201d When Ann finished what she was saying, I said something like this\u2014I said, \u201cWe need to talk about everything you said; but before we talk, I need to do something; and I need to do it right now. You don\u2019t need to do this; I do.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tFor whatever reason, I felt like \u201cI need to be on my knees,\u201d when I did this. I don\u2019t always pray on my knees, but there are times when I just want my posture to be in <em>total<\/em> submission. I got on my knees in the front seat of a Honda Accord. Don\u2019t ask me how, but I pushed that driver\u2019s seat back. I turned around. The steering wheel was in my back, and I put my elbows on the driver\u2019s seat. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI prayed out loud with my eyes closed. I don\u2019t even know what Ann\u2019s doing\u2014this isn\u2019t about my wife\u2014this is about me and God. I just said: \u201cGod, I need to repent. I am a lukewarm Christian. You know me. You know I\u2019ve always <em>hated<\/em> that in the church. I\u2019ve preached against it, and now I\u2019m that guy.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> He was praying that out loud. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; I prayed it out loud. I said: \u201cI\u2019m asking You to make me the man You called me to be: the husband I\u2019m called me to be\/the dad I need to be. I\u2019m submitting <em>everything<\/em> to you.\u201d It wasn\u2019t a conversion moment; it was just putting Him back where He deserves to be\u2014on the throne\/the control of my life\u2014\u201cI repent, and I\u2019m choosing to live the life You\u2019ve called me to live.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI thought we were done; I thought, \u201cOkay; now, let\u2019s talk.\u201d I look over, and she\u2019s on <em>her<\/em> knees. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I think, when Dave got on his knees, it <em>shocked<\/em> me. I know that Dave loves God. I know that he\u2019s running hard after God, but that was such a vulnerable place to be\u2014of saying, \u201cGod, I repent.\u201d Soon as Dave did that, there was a conviction of my heart, realizing that I had put Dave as the idol of my life. He was like on my throne. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI got on my knees and I said: \u201cGod, I confess and I repent, too; because I\u2019ve put my marriage and Dave in place of You. I repent of that. My happiness has been determined by him and his actions; that\u2019s just wrong. I give You all of me\/all of us\u2014our future\/our marriage.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe prayed, \u201cGod,\u201d\u2014again, we grabbed hands, at that point, because we\u2019d done this on our honeymoon and at other times, too\u2014\u201cGod, take our marriage and make it great; we <em>can\u2019t<\/em> do it apart from You.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Some couples will have an experience like this and, then, the next day the habits\/the old patterns are back. It was like, \u201cWe went to the mountain top, but nothing really changed.\u201d Things really changed for you; didn\u2019t they?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; I\u2019m not going to sit here and say, \u201cMan, it was like boom!\u201d but it was. The next day was like: \u201cOkay; you can pray a prayer like that, but that\u2019s a <em>daily<\/em> prayer.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>It\u2019s something we have to establish <em>rhythms<\/em> and disciplines in our life and in our marriage. I mean, there were <em>many<\/em> conversations after that night about the horizontal part. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen, here\u2019s the amazing thing, I think, about vertical marriage. The concept is this\u2014we come into marriage, and we were doing the same thing\u2014even though we taught this differently\u2014we were trying to get happiness from each other; right? When that doesn\u2019t happen\u2014and that doesn\u2019t happen for almost everybody\u2014at some point, you\u2019re disappointed. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMost couples\u2014and we did the same thing\u2014we think, \u201cI married the wrong person.\u201d No, no, no: \u201cYou\u2019re looking in the wrong place,\u201d\u2014that\u2019s the answer. Vertical marriage is when you look to the One who can give you the joy and happiness that you want; now, you come back to your marriage\u2014what?\u2014you\u2019re <em>overflowing<\/em> rather than: \u201cI need\u2026\u201d \u201cI need\u2026\u201d \u201cI need\u2026\u201d It\u2019s like: \u201cNo; I\u2019m called by my God to serve. He\u2019s filled me up in such a way I can serve.\u201d It <em>literally<\/em> changes everything. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> As you\u2019ve been talking, I\u2019ve been thinking of Psalm 127:1, which has been quoted many, many times, here on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. It really captures the concept of vertical marriage; it says, \u201cUnless the Lord builds the house\u201d\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014that\u2019s the vertical\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> \u2014the other half of the verse says, \u201cthose who build it labor in vain,\u201d\u2014that\u2019s the horizontal. Who hasn\u2019t experienced that? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dennis:<\/strong> I was thinking back into our marriage. We perhaps didn\u2019t have a romantic night like you attempted, Dave, with the ten roses; but there have been nights where we have missed each other. The only thing that rescued it was repentance on the vertical\u2014on submitting to God and to Jesus Christ afresh.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Barbara:<\/strong> Yes; the verse that popped into my mind, as I was listening to you, is one that I learned as a brand-new Christian; and that\u2019s Romans 12:1-2\u2014the whole concept of \u201cDo not be conformed to this world but be transformed.\u201d Being transformed is repentance; we can\u2019t become transformed unless we repent. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThat\u2019s what we tend to do in our marriages\u2014is we become conformed to the world\u2014we\u2019re trying to do it in our own power and our own strength and apply what we think is going to work. But when we repent and submit, then He transforms us; and then we can experience exactly what you were talking about.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> My hope is that there are people listening right now\u2014and they wouldn\u2019t do this\u2014\u201cOh, we can listen to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>; and we can get books and resources and that will save our marriage,\u201d\u2014those are awesome, and they\u2019re very important\u2014I\u2019m hoping they go: \u201cThe only hope we have is Jesus.\u201d I\u2019m not kidding; I see people, all around the world, get down on their knees right now\u2014turn off the radio, get on their knees, and repent. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Even if you\u2019re doing it by yourself\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014even if you have a spouse that\u2019s not there yet\u2014you can still get on your knees. Give your life to Jesus; and re-surrender your marriage, your home, your kids. He hears that. And He\u2019s fighting for us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t[Studio] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We\u2019ve been listening to a conversation Denny and Barbara Rainey and I had with Dave and Ann Wilson more than a year ago right after the release of the book <em>Vertical Marriage.<\/em> I\u2019m thinking\u2014the re-surrender of a marriage\/the re-surrender of a life\u2014this is the regular rhythm of the Christian life; isn\u2019t it?\u2014regular re-surrendering. It doesn\u2019t have to be a big moment; it\u2019s a day-to-day process of resubmitting yourself to the Lordship of Christ.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s become a habit of mine every morning when I turn off my alarm. I lay in bed for just a few minutes and say, \u201cFather, I give You my life again today. I\u2019m Yours; let me be Your eyes, Your ears, Your hands, Your mouth. I can\u2019t do it apart from You.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Some of the most, as you\u2019ve just heard, significant moments in our marriage have been surrender moments\u2014together. Yet, every day is a surrender. Often, it\u2019s by\u00a0 myself; Ann\u2019s by herself; other times, we\u2019re together\u2014that moment of saying, \u201cJesus, I want You to be in control, not me,\u201d is life changing. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You guys are doing something pretty fun this week. I know a lot of our listeners are maybe normally part of a small group with their church or a group of friends that get together. A lot of that has been put on hold over the last several months. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou\u2019re going to be leading a small group for three weeks, starting this week, Thursday night, eight o\u2019clock CT. We\u2019re going to be going through the first three sessions of the <em>Vertical Marriage<\/em> video series. Listeners can go to FamilyLifeToday.com and join the Facebook<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> group that we\u2019re setting up. That will give you access to Session One; you can watch Session One whenever you\u2019d like. Then on Thursday night, at eight o\u2019clock CT, you can gather together with people from all over the country for a small group discussion around Session One of <em>Vertical Marriage<\/em> that Dave and Ann are going to be hosting.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAgain, go to FamilyLifeToday.com for all the information. Join the Facebook group for the <em>Vertical Marriage<\/em> small group series. Again, our website is FamilyLifeToday.com. There\u2019s also information available there about the <em>Vertical Marriage<\/em> book that Dave and Ann have written and about the video series if you want to use this with your small group later in the summer or next fall. Again, go to FamilyLifeToday.com; all the information is available there. Then, plan to join us Thursday night, eight o\u2019clock CT, to be part of the <em>Vertical Marriage<\/em> small group. This is really cool; I\u2019m glad you guys are doing this.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, we need to say, \u201cThank you,\u201d to a group of our listeners, who are really the unsung heroes of today\u2019s program\u2014that\u2019s those of you who made this program possible. The reason you were able to hear <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is because you had friends and neighbors, who said, \u201cThis program matters in our community, and we\u2019re going to sponsor it.\u201d They\u2019ve made donations so that <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> can continue to be heard here in this community and in cities all around the world. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIf you are a regular listener, you have your fellow listeners to thank for today\u2019s program\u2014those who have donated in the past. If you\u2019re a regular listener, and you\u2019ve never donated, we want to challenge you to pay it forward to make it possible for you and others to hear upcoming programs. <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is listener-supported; that\u2019s how this works. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe want to encourage you\/challenge you to be part of the FamilyLife team. Make <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> possible in your community by going to FamilyLifeToday.com and making a donation, or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY and donate by phone. We are grateful for those of you who have donated in the past, especially those of you who are monthly Legacy Partners. Thank you for your ongoing support of this ministry. Help us take this program to more people, more often by donating today. Again, donate online at FamilyLifeToday.com; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to donate.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBe sure to join us again tomorrow. We\u2019re going to talk about how we develop a strategy or a plan so that, when conflict occurs in our marriage, we know how to resolve it. I hope you can tune in for that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back tomorrow for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2020 FamilyLife. 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