{"id":305992,"date":"2020-05-08T07:00:04","date_gmt":"2020-05-08T11:00:04","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/helping-our-daughters-realize-their-worth\/"},"modified":"2020-05-08T07:00:04","modified_gmt":"2020-05-08T11:00:04","slug":"helping-our-daughters-realize-their-worth","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/helping-our-daughters-realize-their-worth\/","title":{"rendered":"Helping Our Daughters Realize Their Worth"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Authors Elyse Fitzpatrick and Eric Schumacher talk about the dignity and value of women. Hear how Fitzpatrick and Schumacher are raising their daughters and sons to embrace their gender and love the person God made them to be.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2020-05-08.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:32:06","filesize":"29.39M","filesize_raw":"30812736","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2848,2805,2831,2093],"tags":[4001],"podcast_series":[],"cwp_profile":[3438,9619],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-305992","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-cultural-issues","category-gods-plan-for-marriage","category-wives","category-women","tag-women","cwp_profile-elyse-fitzpatrick","cwp_profile-eric-schumacher","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/305992\/helping-our-daughters-realize-their-worth","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/305992\/helping-our-daughters-realize-their-worth","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"h5m0iDmafG\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/helping-our-daughters-realize-their-worth\/\">Helping Our Daughters Realize Their Worth<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/helping-our-daughters-realize-their-worth\/embed\/#?secret=h5m0iDmafG\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Helping Our Daughters Realize Their Worth&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"h5m0iDmafG\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2020-05-08.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2020-05-08.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Years ago, people used to use the expression, \u201cA woman\u2019s place\u2026.\u201d Elyse Fitzpatrick says the Bible says a woman\u2019s place is a place of value, and honor, and dignity. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Elyse:<\/strong> You want to know what godly women are like?\u2014then take a look at Miriam who, in some ways, rescued her brother Moses; take a look at Sarah; take a look at Hannah; take a look at Lydia; take a look at Phoebe\u2014these are women that served God. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Friday, May 8<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I\u2019m Bob Lepine. You\u2019ll find us online at FamilyLifeToday.com. As parents, are we raising our sons and daughters to understand what the Bible says about the dignity and value of women? We\u2019re going to talk more about that today with Elyse Fitzpatrick and Eric Schumacher. Stay with us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. This is such a confusing culture for moms and dads trying to raise the next generation. First of all, we\u2019ve got massive gender confusion in our culture today. If you\u2019re thinking, as a mom or as a dad, I want to raise my daughter to be a godly woman, the next thing is: \u201cWhat does that even mean?\u201d\u2014because the culture will tell you all kinds of\u2014\u201cWhy woman? Why not just godly person\u201d; right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI have empathy for the parents, who are in the midst of this. This is a challenge today. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> It sure is; because we live in a culture that is confused, and they are growing up in that. I think our voices, as parents, are vital in the upraising\u2014especially of our daughters. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; and I know that I\u2019ve actually said to my sons, \u201cBoy, I\u2019m glad I\u2019m not a parent now!\u201d\u2014[Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014in a tongue-in-cheek way\u2014but I am a grandparent. It is a different day. Again, when we were raising sons and daughters\u2014and we just really raised sons\u2014we were even, then, saying we were confused\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cWhat\u2019s a real man?\u201d \u201cWhat\u2019s a real woman?\u201d Yet, today, it\u2019s a whole other ballgame. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We\u2019re talking, this week, about the dignity and value of women which, at times in the Christian culture, has been minimized, both in churches and in homes. That\u2019s what is addressed in the book that Elyse Fitzpatrick and Eric Schumacher have written called <em>Worthy: Celebrating the Value of Women<\/em>. Eric and Elyse, welcome back. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Eric:<\/strong> Thanks. It\u2019s good to be here. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Elyse:<\/strong> Thanks, Bob. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019m glad they\u2019re just\u2014they\u2019re just going to clear up <em>all<\/em> the confusion. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014confusion. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Elyse:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Eric:<\/strong> All of it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Today is your day. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> All is going to go away in the next 20 minutes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Listeners are going to get everything they need today from you two. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Elyse:<\/strong> Everything. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Eric is a pastor from Iowa. Elyse is a grandmother, who lives in California. She\u2019s an author and a speaker\u2014has been with us regularly. The two of you collaborated on this book out of a passion to say to us all, \u201cIt\u2019s time for us to think more biblically about women; because we\u2019ve let the culture invade our thinking, as Christians, on this subject.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Eric:<\/strong> Yes; I think what you\u2014what you opened with was so right; we live in confusing times. We live in a culture that is often pushing one way to where there are absolutely no distinctions between men and women. Sometimes, particularly, in conservative churches, we are in a culture that is, maybe, pushing the opposite direction\u2014that we over emphasize the distinctions, sometimes, in ways that, maybe, the Bible doesn\u2019t say exist. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Let me give you an example of that. I\u2019ve shared this before, but this just jumped out at me; it was one of those \u201cAha\u201d moments in my life. My son had gone to a youth retreat. He came home from the youth retreat; and he said, \u201cGuess what the speaker said.\u201d I said, \u201cWell, tell me what he said.\u201d He said: \u201cSo, he was talking about guys and girls; and he said, \u2018You know, guys and girls are different; I mean, guys like sports, and girls like to read.\u2019\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOkay; so, my son, who was in the eighth grade at that point, wasn\u2019t much into sports and loved to read. He\u2019s going, \u201cSo what do I do with that, Dad?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Eric:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> In fact, he coined a term. He\u2019s a clever kid; he said, \u201cI call these genderalities\/genderalizations\u201d; right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Elyse:<\/strong> <em>Nice<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Isn\u2019t that a nice word? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Eric:<\/strong> I like it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s really good. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> But he said: \u201cThe Bible does make distinctions between men and women; but we can get into this idea\/this cultural-shaped idea, where we say, \u2018Women are like this; men are like that; and the Bible says so.\u2019\u201d The Bible never says anything like that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Eric:<\/strong> That\u2019s absolutely right; the Bible doesn\u2019t say things like that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI remember being in college, where we went on a\u2014it was Campus Crusade [for Christ]<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>\/our local chapter\u2014and we went on a\/we had men\u2019s and women\u2019s retreat in the same weekend and, then, came back together for a banquet or something in the evening. The men got to go repelling and rock climbing, and the women stenciled flower pots. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Ann is about to have a\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Are you serious? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Eric:<\/strong> I\u2019m serious. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> This is what they did. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Eric:<\/strong> This is what they did. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> There are two women in our studio right now that are just\u2014they are ready to hit something, I think. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Eric:<\/strong> That\u2019s how the women were when they found out what we did; and so, the next year, we all went rock climbing together. Even\u2014you know, we\u2019ve been making the jokes about: \u201cPastors, don\u2019t use all sports illustrations in your sermon\u201d; but there are some women, who <em>love<\/em> sports, and they thrive on those illustrations; there are men, who don\u2019t know <em>anything<\/em> about sports. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Eric:<\/strong> Those illustrations go right over their head. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo thinking carefully about: \u201cWhat does the Bible <em>actually<\/em> say about what men should be like and women should be like?\u201d\u2014and separating that from our cultural distinctions that might be extra-biblical\u2014can be a difficult task. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> It is difficult. I\u2019ve talked, for years, with people and said, \u201cOkay; if we\u2019re going to define femininity biblically and masculinity biblically, it gets <em>really<\/em> tricky.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Eric:<\/strong> It does. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I\u2019ve had these conversations with my kids. I say, \u201cSo guys should be courageous and strong\u201d; and my daughters will say, \u201cSo women aren\u2019t supposed to be courageous and strong?\u2014a mom\u2019s not supposed to be a courageous, strong mother?\u201d; and I go, \u201cWell, okay; that\u2019s a good point.\u201d [Laughter] We acknowledge there are distinctions; and then, as soon as we start to put words to it, we start to stutter and get confused about that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, Elyse, define femininity for me; will you? [Laughter] Can you explain to me so I can\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Elyse:<\/strong> Boy, thank you, Bob. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> When we think about the value and dignity of a woman, as unique from men,\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Elyse:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014what are those biblical unique-nesses? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Elyse:<\/strong> Yes; well, let\u2019s start off, first of all, by saying that the word, \u201cfemininity,\u201d doesn\u2019t even occur in the Bible. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Okay. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Elyse:<\/strong> Masculinity also does not appear in the Bible. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Okay. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Elyse:<\/strong> However we want to load those words, we have to always remember that they are going to be shaped by our context in Post-industrial Revolution\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Elyse:<\/strong> \u2014America. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Okay. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Elyse:<\/strong> So, here, what it would like\u2014let\u2019s say is the woman stays home with the kids. If I\u2019m in the Sudan or I\u2019m in China, that Post-industrial Revolution America definition of femininity\/what it means to be a godly woman doesn\u2019t fly there. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat we have to do is\u2014we have to step back and say: \u201cOkay; what does the Bible say about me, as a woman? Should I be courageous? Should I stand for right values? Should I do these things in boldness?\u201d Well, yes; of course, I should. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAll you have to do is look at the women in the Bible. You want to know what godly women are like?\u2014then take a look at Miriam who, in some ways, rescued her brother Moses; take a look at Sarah; take a look at Hannah; take a look at Lydia; take a look at Phoebe\u2014these are women that served God.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0What\u2019s primary about me is not my gender; what\u2019s primary about me is that God has called me into the Great Commission, and He has given me His Spirit. At the resurrection, who is it that is there? I mean, Mary Magdalene, of all people.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Elyse:<\/strong> I wouldn\u2019t have picked her, but Jesus did; and she is the first one commissioned to tell of the resurrection. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat does it mean, then, to be a woman, who has been saved by grace? What it means is that I am commissioned with the Great Commission: to stand and speak, as appropriate, into my culture about what it means to be valued as someone God has created in His image\u2014to speak truth and to model that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And that sounds very similar to what you would tell a son. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Elyse:<\/strong> Exactly! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So how is it different, or is it? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Elyse:<\/strong> The one thing that I would not do with women\/with little girls is tell them that their value rests upon how they look\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Appearance; yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Elyse:<\/strong> \u2014their appearance. For men to value\/for dads to value their little girls. Instead of saying something like, \u201cYou look so cute today; I love your little dress,\u201d\u2014that\u2014to say, \u201cHoney, I noticed that you were sharing your toys today, and I <em>love<\/em> that character in you.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We\u2019ve had <em>your<\/em> daughter and your son on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Elyse:<\/strong> Should I apologize? [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> We love them. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> They were great. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You are a part of our <em>Art of Parenting<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> video series; and your daughter, Jessica, is also a part of the <em>Art of Parenting<\/em> video series. We\u2019re grateful for that; but you were raising Joel and Jessica in the same home. Did you emphasize <em>different<\/em> things with Joel than you emphasized with Jessica? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Elyse:<\/strong> I don\u2019t think I did. I remember, one time, when Jessica was in the back of the car. She was crying because she said she thought she was ugly; I mean, I can remember\u2014I think one of the few times I ever, probably, too few times that I ever really got on her case\u2014and I said: \u201cDo not ever say that to me again. You\u2019re value\/who you are doesn\u2019t have anything to do with how you look; so I <em>never<\/em> want to hear that from you again.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSee, telling a woman that her value is in God\u2019s eyes\u2014what He has done <em>for<\/em> her, and how He has given her faith, and how she can serve Him\u2014I don\u2019t think besides that I did <em>anything<\/em> different in the way that I trained them. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Eric, you\u2019ve got four boys and a girl. Are you and your wife trying to do anything differently to emphasize that: \u201cThis is how a girl should be,\u201d and \u201cThis is how boys should be\u201d? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Eric:<\/strong> I can\u2019t think, in most of our parenting, that there\u2019s a lot of difference except for, maybe, speaking about: \u201cOne day, if you get married\/if that\u2019s what the Lord calls you to: being a mom,\u201d\/\u201c\u2026being a dad,\u201d \/ \u201c\u2026being a husband,\u201d\/\u201d\u2026 being a wife\u2026.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, as I think about just what Elyse was saying about femininity and masculinity\u2014and \u201cWhat do we\/how do we think about that biblically?\u201d I think about Paul writing the Thessalonians and saying, \u201cYou know how we were with you; we were tender like nursing mothers.\u201d A pastor\u2014one of the virtues he should cultivate is the tenderness of a nursing mother. You have Jesus saying, \u201cHow often I would have gathered you like a hen gathers her chicks.\u201d Paul and Jesus are willing to say, as they illustrate their manliness in caring for people, using distinctly female roles; I think that\u2019s interesting. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to ask the question: \u201cAre there virtues that a male should be cultivating that a woman should not?\u2014or that a woman should be cultivating that a man should not?\u201d I can\u2019t really think of any that: \u201cThis is only for men,\u201d and \u201cThis is only for women.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> But Titus 2, when it differentiates, does have some differentiation about what older women should teach younger women\/older men should teach younger men. We ought not to dismiss that as being gender inclusive and say, \u201cWell, they\u2019re just\u2026\u201d\u2014no; there is purpose in those\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Eric:<\/strong> Absolutely. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014gender differentiations. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Eric:<\/strong> And I notice that, when those gender differentiations come up, it\u2019s often talking about\u2014even there, Titus\u2014about how they are in the home. I think that where we see these roles for men and women differentiated, it\u2019s often in a covenant context, where you have a husband and a wife in a home or you have pastors and members in a local church. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhere I want to think carefully about is: outside of those contexts, how different should men and women look? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Let me ask you this, because my son called me not long after he\u2019d gotten married. He said: \u201cSo, what do I do with this verse in 1 Peter 3 that says that women are weaker vessels? What does that mean?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Eric:<\/strong> Yes; well, there are a few different interpretations. One of those is\u2014it could be just recognizing that men have more natural body strength. You know there is a percentage more muscle that men are going to have than women; so they are naturally\/physically weaker. It could also be culturally\u2014in that cultural context\u2014where women had fewer rights and advantages, that you should be gentle with them and not take advantage of what you have. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> How did we get to a place in modern day\u2014and it\u2019s been a long time\u2014where we see men are strong; women are soft. I\u2019m not talking physically; I\u2019m talking demeanor\/everything: \u201cMen, step up and be courageous\u201d; \u201cWomen\u2026that\u2019s not feminine,\u201d\/\u201d\u2026that\u2019s not female.\u201d Yet, it is <em>so far<\/em> from the truth; but there are so many that believe that, and we <em>say<\/em> that. How did we get here? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Elyse:<\/strong> I think it\u2019s a reaction\u2014which we ought to be very, very careful when we build theologies around reactions to the culture; okay? It\u2019s a reaction to the culture because, again, when I first got saved\u20141971\u2014nobody was talking about gender; but in reaction to the culture, and particularly to third-wave feminism\u2014in reaction to that, <em>entire<\/em> theologies have been developed. A lot of them are just <em>responding<\/em> to the culture rather than looking at what Scripture has to say. What we\u2019re saying is: \u201cOkay; what the culture is saying about gender out there\u2014that\u2019s all wrong\u2014so we\u2019re going to say something that we believe is different.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI mean, I think that that is how we got there; but then, also, you have to remember, too, that from the very beginning, the enemy has hated women: \u201cThere will be enmity between your seed and her seed.\u201d The woman has been hated from the beginning; and in some ways, it\u2019s just easy to slide into that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I\u2019ve made the observation that men tend toward passivity. I\u2019ve also made the observation that\u2014and again, I\u2019m not trying to be exclusive here; because women can be passive\u2014but I\u2019ve\/I\u2019ve just observed, with men, it seems more endemic than it is with women. Women tend to lean toward control\u2014toward wanting to feel safe and feel like, \u201cIf I\u2019m not in control of my circumstances, I\u2019m unsafe.\u201d I\u2019m applying some of this back to Genesis 3: \u201cYour desire will be for your husband.\u201d Do you see that as a desire?\u2014to want to be in control of her environment\/her circumstances. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Eric:<\/strong> Actually, in the book, we argue\/I argue that it\u2019s <em>not<\/em> that\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Okay. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Eric:<\/strong> \u2014because of the way the poetry works there. What I see going on in the curses, as results of the fall, is the Lord affirms that they will have what is actually a natural and a good desire. Adam will eat the grain of the field, but there\u2019s going to be resistance; so he\u2019s going to eat by the sweat of his brow. I actually think\u2014this is my interpretation, although there are different interpretations\u2014but that the woman\u2019s desire is a romantic desire: that she will still love and desire her husband; but that\u2019s going to be met with resistance, in terms, of him having a harsh rule. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think we see that borne out as Genesis 4 unfolds, where\u2014Genesis 4 is remarkable because it begins\u2014Eve has the first recorded words of faith in Scripture: \u201cThe Lord, with His help, I got this son,\u201d\u2014we see her faith. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, I mentioned earlier that the first song in Scripture is Adam celebrating the value of his wife. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u201cThis is flesh of my flesh, bone of my bone.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Eric:<\/strong> \u2014 \u201c\u2026bone of my bone\u201d; yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou go on in Genesis 4, and the second song sung is by Lamech, who is the descendant of Cain. In poetic form, he calls his wives to him\u2014notice that, now, he has two wives; he\u2019s collecting these women\u2014he brings them together. You might remember that scene, where he brags about\u2014you know, he says, \u201cThis is what happened to Cain\u2014sevenfold vengeance\u201d; he says\u2014\u201cI\u2019ve killed a young man for striking me. My vengeance will be seventy-fold.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat\u2019s interesting is he\u2019s just called his <em>wives<\/em> to him to say, \u201cI have <em>violently<\/em> reacted\/<em>lethally<\/em> reacted to someone who hurt me; and I want you, my wives, to know this.\u201d What\u2019s going on there? There\u2019s a man, who is saying, \u201cYou better not displease me, or it could cost you your life.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u201cI\u2019ll kill you.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Eric:<\/strong> Yes, so he is <em>abusing<\/em> this authority to gain control of his situation. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, to get back to your question of: \u201cWhat does it mean\u2014what do you teach your sons about what it means to grow up to be a man?\u201d I think what I would try to emphasize with my boys is being a man means taking the initiative to <em>sacrifice<\/em> to achieve unity with this woman. If there is anything that should shape our lives, then it should be a willingness to <em>sacrifice<\/em> for the good of other people. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Again, women are called to sacrifice as well\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Eric:<\/strong> Absolutely. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014but where the Bible speaks specific gender language\u2014when it says, \u201cHusbands, do this\u2026\u201d\/\u201cWives do this\u2026\u201d\u2014we ought to note there is something different\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Eric:<\/strong> There is. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014going on there. When it says, \u201cOlder men teach this to younger men\u2026\u201d there is something gender different there; and we ought not just try to dismiss that and say, \u201cWell, that\u2019s for everybody\u201d; right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Eric:<\/strong> Absolutely. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I want to just say to the women listeners, \u201cYou are worthy.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Elyse:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Eric: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Jesus has made us worthy, and He sees you; He loves you; He has a place for you; your voice does matter. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think that we, as women\/I think that we need to lift one another up and remind each other of that. So often, we can compete in a world of just there\u2019s so much going on; but if we lock arms as women, too; and lift each other up; go the Word together; pray for one another, we\u2019re world changers,\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014just as our brothers are. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Let me say to our listeners. We love when you do engage with us. Again, we talk about getting emails; we\u2019d love to hear from you. We love when we\u2019re stimulating thoughts, and you may disagree with some of the things you\u2019ve heard this week. You may agree and want to write about those things; you can always do that. We are happy to pass on Eric and Elyse\u2019s email addresses so you can go directly to them. [Laughter] I\u2019m kidding. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Elyse:<\/strong> I don\u2019t have one anymore; mine all goes to Eric. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Here is what I would hope our listeners would do before they send an email to us. Get a copy of the book, <em>Worthy<\/em>, and read it\u2014prayerfully read it and then interact with it; because sometimes, in a conversation like this, you know\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Eric:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014we blow past something. You guys have done a great job with nuanced thought and with clear prose. I hope a lot of our listeners will read this book. I\u2019m so grateful you came to be a part of this conversation. Thank you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Eric:<\/strong> Thanks for having us. It\u2019s been wonderful. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Elyse:<\/strong> Thanks, Bob. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You can go to FamilyLifeToday.com to order a copy of the book, <em>Worthy<\/em>, by Elyse Fitzpatrick and Eric Schumacher; or you can call to order: our number is 1-800-FL-TODAY. Once again, the website to order a copy of Eric and Elyse\u2019s book, <em>Worthy<\/em>, go to FamilyLifeToday.com; or call 1-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDavid Robbins, the president of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, is in the studio with us again. You know, while many of us have been dealing with things being cancelled, back when we recognized something serious was going on, we also realized that ministry can\u2019t be cancelled in the midst of a pandemic. There are still real needs and people who need help and hope. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> If anything, I think God is opening our eyes to <em>all<\/em> the opportunities around us. I know my family has gotten to know our neighbors better than we ever have\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> \u2014in just six short weeks. At FamilyLife, that really is our mission. Our mission is not just to give you help for today and hope for tomorrow; it\u2019s about equipping you to <em>be<\/em> help and hope to those that are around you. Our team has been working really hard during this pandemic to help you be ambassadors for Christ to other homes around you and impact your corner of the world. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI was so encouraged to get this email from Vicki recently. She said: \u201cMy husband and I are coaching a newly-married couple, using these awesome resources you guys are putting out during COVID-19. It is so powerful to be having honest discussions about the real issues we\u2019re all facing during this strange time, but especially for these newlyweds. Others are expressing interest, so we are praying about a time to host weekly Zoom calls with a newlywed support group.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, it can look a lot of different ways; and it looks different for each one of us in the ways we are wired; but we believe that there is renewal and awakening happening in our day. There is an invitation to a bigger story and fresh surrender as we walk through this pandemic together. I think God is reminding us of what He\u2019s doing in building His kingdom, in bringing revival, in bringing renewal, especially as we look up and see the homes and the neighbors around us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI just want to say, \u201cWe look forward to continuing to provide resources during this unprecedented time to help you minister to those around you, and we are so grateful for those who give generously and sacrificially to enable us to play our part in building God\u2019s kingdom.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> The gospel is not cancelled, and the mission\/the Great Commission is not cancelled; we hope everybody is taking that to heart. If you\u2019ve not got to our website at FamilyLifeToday.com to find some of these resources that are available to help you reach out to your friends\/your neighbors\u2014things you can forward\/things you can engage them with\u2014go to FamilyLifeToday.com. The information is available there. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd if you are able to help with a donation today, these are challenging times for ministries like ours. If you can help with a donation, we would be so grateful. In fact, we\u2019d love to send you a copy of Barbara Rainey\u2019s new book, which is called <em>My Heart Ever His<\/em>, a great book on how to pray more effectively during challenging times. Ask for your copy of the book when you make an online donation at FamilyLifeToday.com, or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to donate; and thanks for your support of this ministry. We appreciate you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe hope you have a great weekend. I hope you and your family are able to worship together with your local church this weekend, and I hope you can join us back on Monday. Dennis and Barbara Rainey are going to be back with us, along with Dave and Ann Wilson. We\u2019re going to talk about what it looks like when a marriage goes vertical, so that will be fun to have the whole gang here; right? I hope you can join us for that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2020 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:32:06"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["29.39M"],"filesize_raw":["30812736"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-305992.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-305992.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom 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Elyse Fitzpatrick and Eric Schumacher talk about the dignity and value of women. Hear how Fitzpatrick and Schumacher are raising their daughters and sons to embrace their gender and love the person God made them to be.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2020-05-08.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Years ago, people used to use the expression, \u201cA woman\u2019s place\u2026.\u201d Elyse Fitzpatrick says the Bible says a woman\u2019s place is a place of value, and honor, and dignity. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Elyse:<\/strong> You want to know what godly women are like?\u2014then take a look at Miriam who, in some ways, rescued her brother Moses; take a look at Sarah; take a look at Hannah; take a look at Lydia; take a look at Phoebe\u2014these are women that served God. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Friday, May 8<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I\u2019m Bob Lepine. You\u2019ll find us online at FamilyLifeToday.com. As parents, are we raising our sons and daughters to understand what the Bible says about the dignity and value of women? We\u2019re going to talk more about that today with Elyse Fitzpatrick and Eric Schumacher. Stay with us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. This is such a confusing culture for moms and dads trying to raise the next generation. First of all, we\u2019ve got massive gender confusion in our culture today. If you\u2019re thinking, as a mom or as a dad, I want to raise my daughter to be a godly woman, the next thing is: \u201cWhat does that even mean?\u201d\u2014because the culture will tell you all kinds of\u2014\u201cWhy woman? Why not just godly person\u201d; right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI have empathy for the parents, who are in the midst of this. This is a challenge today. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> It sure is; because we live in a culture that is confused, and they are growing up in that. I think our voices, as parents, are vital in the upraising\u2014especially of our daughters. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes; and I know that I\u2019ve actually said to my sons, \u201cBoy, I\u2019m glad I\u2019m not a parent now!\u201d\u2014[Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014in a tongue-in-cheek way\u2014but I am a grandparent. It is a different day. Again, when we were raising sons and daughters\u2014and we just really raised sons\u2014we were even, then, saying we were confused\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014\u201cWhat\u2019s a real man?\u201d \u201cWhat\u2019s a real woman?\u201d Yet, today, it\u2019s a whole other ballgame. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We\u2019re talking, this week, about the dignity and value of women which, at times in the Christian culture, has been minimized, both in churches and in homes. That\u2019s what is addressed in the book that Elyse Fitzpatrick and Eric Schumacher have written called <em>Worthy: Celebrating the Value of Women<\/em>. Eric and Elyse, welcome back. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Eric:<\/strong> Thanks. It\u2019s good to be here. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Elyse:<\/strong> Thanks, Bob. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019m glad they\u2019re just\u2014they\u2019re just going to clear up <em>all<\/em> the confusion. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014confusion. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Elyse:<\/strong> Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Eric:<\/strong> All of it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Today is your day. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> All is going to go away in the next 20 minutes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Listeners are going to get everything they need today from you two. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Elyse:<\/strong> Everything. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Eric is a pastor from Iowa. Elyse is a grandmother, who lives in California. She\u2019s an author and a speaker\u2014has been with us regularly. The two of you collaborated on this book out of a passion to say to us all, \u201cIt\u2019s time for us to think more biblically about women; because we\u2019ve let the culture invade our thinking, as Christians, on this subject.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Eric:<\/strong> Yes; I think what you\u2014what you opened with was so right; we live in confusing times. We live in a culture that is often pushing one way to where there are absolutely no distinctions between men and women. Sometimes, particularly, in conservative churches, we are in a culture that is, maybe, pushing the opposite direction\u2014that we over emphasize the distinctions, sometimes, in ways that, maybe, the Bible doesn\u2019t say exist. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Let me give you an example of that. I\u2019ve shared this before, but this just jumped out at me; it was one of those \u201cAha\u201d moments in my life. My son had gone to a youth retreat. He came home from the youth retreat; and he said, \u201cGuess what the speaker said.\u201d I said, \u201cWell, tell me what he said.\u201d He said: \u201cSo, he was talking about guys and girls; and he said, \u2018You know, guys and girls are different; I mean, guys like sports, and girls like to read.\u2019\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOkay; so, my son, who was in the eighth grade at that point, wasn\u2019t much into sports and loved to read. He\u2019s going, \u201cSo what do I do with that, Dad?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Eric:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> In fact, he coined a term. He\u2019s a clever kid; he said, \u201cI call these genderalities\/genderalizations\u201d; right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Elyse:<\/strong> <em>Nice<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Isn\u2019t that a nice word? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Eric:<\/strong> I like it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> That\u2019s really good. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> But he said: \u201cThe Bible does make distinctions between men and women; but we can get into this idea\/this cultural-shaped idea, where we say, \u2018Women are like this; men are like that; and the Bible says so.\u2019\u201d The Bible never says anything like that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Eric:<\/strong> That\u2019s absolutely right; the Bible doesn\u2019t say things like that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI remember being in college, where we went on a\u2014it was Campus Crusade [for Christ]<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>\/our local chapter\u2014and we went on a\/we had men\u2019s and women\u2019s retreat in the same weekend and, then, came back together for a banquet or something in the evening. The men got to go repelling and rock climbing, and the women stenciled flower pots. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Ann is about to have a\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Are you serious? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Eric:<\/strong> I\u2019m serious. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> This is what they did. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Eric:<\/strong> This is what they did. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> There are two women in our studio right now that are just\u2014they are ready to hit something, I think. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Eric:<\/strong> That\u2019s how the women were when they found out what we did; and so, the next year, we all went rock climbing together. Even\u2014you know, we\u2019ve been making the jokes about: \u201cPastors, don\u2019t use all sports illustrations in your sermon\u201d; but there are some women, who <em>love<\/em> sports, and they thrive on those illustrations; there are men, who don\u2019t know <em>anything<\/em> about sports. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Eric:<\/strong> Those illustrations go right over their head. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo thinking carefully about: \u201cWhat does the Bible <em>actually<\/em> say about what men should be like and women should be like?\u201d\u2014and separating that from our cultural distinctions that might be extra-biblical\u2014can be a difficult task. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> It is difficult. I\u2019ve talked, for years, with people and said, \u201cOkay; if we\u2019re going to define femininity biblically and masculinity biblically, it gets <em>really<\/em> tricky.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Eric:<\/strong> It does. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I\u2019ve had these conversations with my kids. I say, \u201cSo guys should be courageous and strong\u201d; and my daughters will say, \u201cSo women aren\u2019t supposed to be courageous and strong?\u2014a mom\u2019s not supposed to be a courageous, strong mother?\u201d; and I go, \u201cWell, okay; that\u2019s a good point.\u201d [Laughter] We acknowledge there are distinctions; and then, as soon as we start to put words to it, we start to stutter and get confused about that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSo, Elyse, define femininity for me; will you? [Laughter] Can you explain to me so I can\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Elyse:<\/strong> Boy, thank you, Bob. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> When we think about the value and dignity of a woman, as unique from men,\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Elyse:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014what are those biblical unique-nesses? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Elyse:<\/strong> Yes; well, let\u2019s start off, first of all, by saying that the word, \u201cfemininity,\u201d doesn\u2019t even occur in the Bible. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Okay. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Elyse:<\/strong> Masculinity also does not appear in the Bible. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Okay. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Elyse:<\/strong> However we want to load those words, we have to always remember that they are going to be shaped by our context in Post-industrial Revolution\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Elyse:<\/strong> \u2014America. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Okay. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Elyse:<\/strong> So, here, what it would like\u2014let\u2019s say is the woman stays home with the kids. If I\u2019m in the Sudan or I\u2019m in China, that Post-industrial Revolution America definition of femininity\/what it means to be a godly woman doesn\u2019t fly there. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat we have to do is\u2014we have to step back and say: \u201cOkay; what does the Bible say about me, as a woman? Should I be courageous? Should I stand for right values? Should I do these things in boldness?\u201d Well, yes; of course, I should. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAll you have to do is look at the women in the Bible. You want to know what godly women are like?\u2014then take a look at Miriam who, in some ways, rescued her brother Moses; take a look at Sarah; take a look at Hannah; take a look at Lydia; take a look at Phoebe\u2014these are women that served God.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\u00a0What\u2019s primary about me is not my gender; what\u2019s primary about me is that God has called me into the Great Commission, and He has given me His Spirit. At the resurrection, who is it that is there? I mean, Mary Magdalene, of all people.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Elyse:<\/strong> I wouldn\u2019t have picked her, but Jesus did; and she is the first one commissioned to tell of the resurrection. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat does it mean, then, to be a woman, who has been saved by grace? What it means is that I am commissioned with the Great Commission: to stand and speak, as appropriate, into my culture about what it means to be valued as someone God has created in His image\u2014to speak truth and to model that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And that sounds very similar to what you would tell a son. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Elyse:<\/strong> Exactly! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> So how is it different, or is it? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Elyse:<\/strong> The one thing that I would not do with women\/with little girls is tell them that their value rests upon how they look\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Appearance; yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Elyse:<\/strong> \u2014their appearance. For men to value\/for dads to value their little girls. Instead of saying something like, \u201cYou look so cute today; I love your little dress,\u201d\u2014that\u2014to say, \u201cHoney, I noticed that you were sharing your toys today, and I <em>love<\/em> that character in you.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> We\u2019ve had <em>your<\/em> daughter and your son on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Elyse:<\/strong> Should I apologize? [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> We love them. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> They were great. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You are a part of our <em>Art of Parenting<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> video series; and your daughter, Jessica, is also a part of the <em>Art of Parenting<\/em> video series. We\u2019re grateful for that; but you were raising Joel and Jessica in the same home. Did you emphasize <em>different<\/em> things with Joel than you emphasized with Jessica? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Elyse:<\/strong> I don\u2019t think I did. I remember, one time, when Jessica was in the back of the car. She was crying because she said she thought she was ugly; I mean, I can remember\u2014I think one of the few times I ever, probably, too few times that I ever really got on her case\u2014and I said: \u201cDo not ever say that to me again. You\u2019re value\/who you are doesn\u2019t have anything to do with how you look; so I <em>never<\/em> want to hear that from you again.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSee, telling a woman that her value is in God\u2019s eyes\u2014what He has done <em>for<\/em> her, and how He has given her faith, and how she can serve Him\u2014I don\u2019t think besides that I did <em>anything<\/em> different in the way that I trained them. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Eric, you\u2019ve got four boys and a girl. Are you and your wife trying to do anything differently to emphasize that: \u201cThis is how a girl should be,\u201d and \u201cThis is how boys should be\u201d? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Eric:<\/strong> I can\u2019t think, in most of our parenting, that there\u2019s a lot of difference except for, maybe, speaking about: \u201cOne day, if you get married\/if that\u2019s what the Lord calls you to: being a mom,\u201d\/\u201c\u2026being a dad,\u201d \/ \u201c\u2026being a husband,\u201d\/\u201d\u2026 being a wife\u2026.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, as I think about just what Elyse was saying about femininity and masculinity\u2014and \u201cWhat do we\/how do we think about that biblically?\u201d I think about Paul writing the Thessalonians and saying, \u201cYou know how we were with you; we were tender like nursing mothers.\u201d A pastor\u2014one of the virtues he should cultivate is the tenderness of a nursing mother. You have Jesus saying, \u201cHow often I would have gathered you like a hen gathers her chicks.\u201d Paul and Jesus are willing to say, as they illustrate their manliness in caring for people, using distinctly female roles; I think that\u2019s interesting. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to ask the question: \u201cAre there virtues that a male should be cultivating that a woman should not?\u2014or that a woman should be cultivating that a man should not?\u201d I can\u2019t really think of any that: \u201cThis is only for men,\u201d and \u201cThis is only for women.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> But Titus 2, when it differentiates, does have some differentiation about what older women should teach younger women\/older men should teach younger men. We ought not to dismiss that as being gender inclusive and say, \u201cWell, they\u2019re just\u2026\u201d\u2014no; there is purpose in those\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Eric:<\/strong> Absolutely. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014gender differentiations. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Eric:<\/strong> And I notice that, when those gender differentiations come up, it\u2019s often talking about\u2014even there, Titus\u2014about how they are in the home. I think that where we see these roles for men and women differentiated, it\u2019s often in a covenant context, where you have a husband and a wife in a home or you have pastors and members in a local church. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhere I want to think carefully about is: outside of those contexts, how different should men and women look? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Let me ask you this, because my son called me not long after he\u2019d gotten married. He said: \u201cSo, what do I do with this verse in 1 Peter 3 that says that women are weaker vessels? What does that mean?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Eric:<\/strong> Yes; well, there are a few different interpretations. One of those is\u2014it could be just recognizing that men have more natural body strength. You know there is a percentage more muscle that men are going to have than women; so they are naturally\/physically weaker. It could also be culturally\u2014in that cultural context\u2014where women had fewer rights and advantages, that you should be gentle with them and not take advantage of what you have. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> How did we get to a place in modern day\u2014and it\u2019s been a long time\u2014where we see men are strong; women are soft. I\u2019m not talking physically; I\u2019m talking demeanor\/everything: \u201cMen, step up and be courageous\u201d; \u201cWomen\u2026that\u2019s not feminine,\u201d\/\u201d\u2026that\u2019s not female.\u201d Yet, it is <em>so far<\/em> from the truth; but there are so many that believe that, and we <em>say<\/em> that. How did we get here? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Elyse:<\/strong> I think it\u2019s a reaction\u2014which we ought to be very, very careful when we build theologies around reactions to the culture; okay? It\u2019s a reaction to the culture because, again, when I first got saved\u20141971\u2014nobody was talking about gender; but in reaction to the culture, and particularly to third-wave feminism\u2014in reaction to that, <em>entire<\/em> theologies have been developed. A lot of them are just <em>responding<\/em> to the culture rather than looking at what Scripture has to say. What we\u2019re saying is: \u201cOkay; what the culture is saying about gender out there\u2014that\u2019s all wrong\u2014so we\u2019re going to say something that we believe is different.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI mean, I think that that is how we got there; but then, also, you have to remember, too, that from the very beginning, the enemy has hated women: \u201cThere will be enmity between your seed and her seed.\u201d The woman has been hated from the beginning; and in some ways, it\u2019s just easy to slide into that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I\u2019ve made the observation that men tend toward passivity. I\u2019ve also made the observation that\u2014and again, I\u2019m not trying to be exclusive here; because women can be passive\u2014but I\u2019ve\/I\u2019ve just observed, with men, it seems more endemic than it is with women. Women tend to lean toward control\u2014toward wanting to feel safe and feel like, \u201cIf I\u2019m not in control of my circumstances, I\u2019m unsafe.\u201d I\u2019m applying some of this back to Genesis 3: \u201cYour desire will be for your husband.\u201d Do you see that as a desire?\u2014to want to be in control of her environment\/her circumstances. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Eric:<\/strong> Actually, in the book, we argue\/I argue that it\u2019s <em>not<\/em> that\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Okay. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Eric:<\/strong> \u2014because of the way the poetry works there. What I see going on in the curses, as results of the fall, is the Lord affirms that they will have what is actually a natural and a good desire. Adam will eat the grain of the field, but there\u2019s going to be resistance; so he\u2019s going to eat by the sweat of his brow. I actually think\u2014this is my interpretation, although there are different interpretations\u2014but that the woman\u2019s desire is a romantic desire: that she will still love and desire her husband; but that\u2019s going to be met with resistance, in terms, of him having a harsh rule. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think we see that borne out as Genesis 4 unfolds, where\u2014Genesis 4 is remarkable because it begins\u2014Eve has the first recorded words of faith in Scripture: \u201cThe Lord, with His help, I got this son,\u201d\u2014we see her faith. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, I mentioned earlier that the first song in Scripture is Adam celebrating the value of his wife. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u201cThis is flesh of my flesh, bone of my bone.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Eric:<\/strong> \u2014 \u201c\u2026bone of my bone\u201d; yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou go on in Genesis 4, and the second song sung is by Lamech, who is the descendant of Cain. In poetic form, he calls his wives to him\u2014notice that, now, he has two wives; he\u2019s collecting these women\u2014he brings them together. You might remember that scene, where he brags about\u2014you know, he says, \u201cThis is what happened to Cain\u2014sevenfold vengeance\u201d; he says\u2014\u201cI\u2019ve killed a young man for striking me. My vengeance will be seventy-fold.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat\u2019s interesting is he\u2019s just called his <em>wives<\/em> to him to say, \u201cI have <em>violently<\/em> reacted\/<em>lethally<\/em> reacted to someone who hurt me; and I want you, my wives, to know this.\u201d What\u2019s going on there? There\u2019s a man, who is saying, \u201cYou better not displease me, or it could cost you your life.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u201cI\u2019ll kill you.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Eric:<\/strong> Yes, so he is <em>abusing<\/em> this authority to gain control of his situation. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, to get back to your question of: \u201cWhat does it mean\u2014what do you teach your sons about what it means to grow up to be a man?\u201d I think what I would try to emphasize with my boys is being a man means taking the initiative to <em>sacrifice<\/em> to achieve unity with this woman. If there is anything that should shape our lives, then it should be a willingness to <em>sacrifice<\/em> for the good of other people. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Again, women are called to sacrifice as well\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Eric:<\/strong> Absolutely. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014but where the Bible speaks specific gender language\u2014when it says, \u201cHusbands, do this\u2026\u201d\/\u201cWives do this\u2026\u201d\u2014we ought to note there is something different\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Eric:<\/strong> There is. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014going on there. When it says, \u201cOlder men teach this to younger men\u2026\u201d there is something gender different there; and we ought not just try to dismiss that and say, \u201cWell, that\u2019s for everybody\u201d; right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Eric:<\/strong> Absolutely. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I want to just say to the women listeners, \u201cYou are worthy.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Elyse:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Eric: <\/strong>Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Jesus has made us worthy, and He sees you; He loves you; He has a place for you; your voice does matter. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think that we, as women\/I think that we need to lift one another up and remind each other of that. So often, we can compete in a world of just there\u2019s so much going on; but if we lock arms as women, too; and lift each other up; go the Word together; pray for one another, we\u2019re world changers,\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014just as our brothers are. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Let me say to our listeners. We love when you do engage with us. Again, we talk about getting emails; we\u2019d love to hear from you. We love when we\u2019re stimulating thoughts, and you may disagree with some of the things you\u2019ve heard this week. You may agree and want to write about those things; you can always do that. We are happy to pass on Eric and Elyse\u2019s email addresses so you can go directly to them. [Laughter] I\u2019m kidding. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Elyse:<\/strong> I don\u2019t have one anymore; mine all goes to Eric. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Here is what I would hope our listeners would do before they send an email to us. Get a copy of the book, <em>Worthy<\/em>, and read it\u2014prayerfully read it and then interact with it; because sometimes, in a conversation like this, you know\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Eric:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014we blow past something. You guys have done a great job with nuanced thought and with clear prose. I hope a lot of our listeners will read this book. I\u2019m so grateful you came to be a part of this conversation. Thank you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Eric:<\/strong> Thanks for having us. It\u2019s been wonderful. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Elyse:<\/strong> Thanks, Bob. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You can go to FamilyLifeToday.com to order a copy of the book, <em>Worthy<\/em>, by Elyse Fitzpatrick and Eric Schumacher; or you can call to order: our number is 1-800-FL-TODAY. Once again, the website to order a copy of Eric and Elyse\u2019s book, <em>Worthy<\/em>, go to FamilyLifeToday.com; or call 1-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDavid Robbins, the president of FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, is in the studio with us again. You know, while many of us have been dealing with things being cancelled, back when we recognized something serious was going on, we also realized that ministry can\u2019t be cancelled in the midst of a pandemic. There are still real needs and people who need help and hope. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> If anything, I think God is opening our eyes to <em>all<\/em> the opportunities around us. I know my family has gotten to know our neighbors better than we ever have\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>David:<\/strong> \u2014in just six short weeks. At FamilyLife, that really is our mission. Our mission is not just to give you help for today and hope for tomorrow; it\u2019s about equipping you to <em>be<\/em> help and hope to those that are around you. Our team has been working really hard during this pandemic to help you be ambassadors for Christ to other homes around you and impact your corner of the world. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI was so encouraged to get this email from Vicki recently. She said: \u201cMy husband and I are coaching a newly-married couple, using these awesome resources you guys are putting out during COVID-19. It is so powerful to be having honest discussions about the real issues we\u2019re all facing during this strange time, but especially for these newlyweds. Others are expressing interest, so we are praying about a time to host weekly Zoom calls with a newlywed support group.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, it can look a lot of different ways; and it looks different for each one of us in the ways we are wired; but we believe that there is renewal and awakening happening in our day. There is an invitation to a bigger story and fresh surrender as we walk through this pandemic together. I think God is reminding us of what He\u2019s doing in building His kingdom, in bringing revival, in bringing renewal, especially as we look up and see the homes and the neighbors around us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI just want to say, \u201cWe look forward to continuing to provide resources during this unprecedented time to help you minister to those around you, and we are so grateful for those who give generously and sacrificially to enable us to play our part in building God\u2019s kingdom.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> The gospel is not cancelled, and the mission\/the Great Commission is not cancelled; we hope everybody is taking that to heart. If you\u2019ve not got to our website at FamilyLifeToday.com to find some of these resources that are available to help you reach out to your friends\/your neighbors\u2014things you can forward\/things you can engage them with\u2014go to FamilyLifeToday.com. The information is available there. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd if you are able to help with a donation today, these are challenging times for ministries like ours. If you can help with a donation, we would be so grateful. In fact, we\u2019d love to send you a copy of Barbara Rainey\u2019s new book, which is called <em>My Heart Ever His<\/em>, a great book on how to pray more effectively during challenging times. Ask for your copy of the book when you make an online donation at FamilyLifeToday.com, or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to donate; and thanks for your support of this ministry. We appreciate you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe hope you have a great weekend. I hope you and your family are able to worship together with your local church this weekend, and I hope you can join us back on Monday. Dennis and Barbara Rainey are going to be back with us, along with Dave and Ann Wilson. We\u2019re going to talk about what it looks like when a marriage goes vertical, so that will be fun to have the whole gang here; right? I hope you can join us for that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2020 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>","theme_header_position":"","post_header_is_sticky":"","is_header_overlay":""},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/305992","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/91"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=305992"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/294104"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=305992"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=305992"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=305992"},{"taxonomy":"podcast_series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast_series?post=305992"},{"taxonomy":"cwp_profile","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/cwp_profile?post=305992"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=305992"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}