{"id":305975,"date":"2020-05-04T07:00:04","date_gmt":"2020-05-04T11:00:04","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/behold-i-make-all-things-new\/"},"modified":"2020-05-04T07:00:04","modified_gmt":"2020-05-04T11:00:04","slug":"behold-i-make-all-things-new","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/behold-i-make-all-things-new\/","title":{"rendered":"Behold, I Make All Things New"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Abandoned by her abusive father when she was young, and her mother several years later, author Esther Fleece Allen only began to understand what a real, godly family looked like after being taken in by a family at her church.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2020-05-04.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:29:27","filesize":"26.97M","filesize_raw":"28283170","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2906,2873],"tags":[4030],"podcast_series":[],"cwp_profile":[3582],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-305975","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-becoming-a-christian","category-mental-and-emotional-issues","tag-abandoned","cwp_profile-esther-fleece-allen","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/305975\/behold-i-make-all-things-new","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/305975\/behold-i-make-all-things-new","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"4uTNw366oc\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/behold-i-make-all-things-new\/\">Behold, I Make All Things New<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/behold-i-make-all-things-new\/embed\/#?secret=4uTNw366oc\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Behold, I Make All Things New&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"4uTNw366oc\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2020-05-04.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2020-05-04.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Hard times\u2014times that Esther Fleece Allen refers to as seasons of lament\u2014we should not be surprised when these are a part of our experience as followers of Jesus.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Esther: <\/strong>I think lament is going to be part of our language here, as Christians. Every single one of us, even non-believers, will lament; but for the Christian, lament is <em>never<\/em> our final language, and it\u2019s <em>not<\/em> our final song. I can say, coming through a prolonged season of suffering\/a prolonged season of abandonment, I can say that God never left me in a lament; and there is great hope in that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Monday, May 4<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I'm Bob Lepine. You\u2019ll find us online at FamilyLifeToday.com. Do you know how to lament well before God?\u2014how to go through hard seasons and find God in the midst of those? We\u2019re going to talk today with Esther Fleece Allen about that. Stay with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. I just feel like I\u2019m done for today; like I am not going to ask any questions. [Laughter] We have somebody here with us today\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>We have a great friend here with us today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You have known her since\u2014how long?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u2014she was a little girl.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Introduce to our listeners who this is.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>This is our friend Esther Fleece Allen. She grew up where Dave and I grew up\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>She was Esther Fleece when she was growing up, right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes, right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>She started coming to our church. She\u2019s an impact person; wherever she goes, she makes an impact. She\u2019s strong; she <em>loves<\/em> Jesus. God has really taken her on a beautiful, but hard, journey. She\u2019s shared about it; this is her second book, and we\u2019re going to talk about her second book.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes, I actually can remember walking out of the Silverdome<sup>\u2122<\/sup> tunnel, after a game, with players; Esther would be usually with the Ellis family. I did not know all of her backstory until her first book, <em>No More Faking Fine<\/em>, when she sent me an advance reader copy. I texted her and said, \u201cThis is one great book\/unbelievable book.\u201d It was in that book I read her backstory, which happened right under our noses, and didn\u2019t even know what was going on.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Before we dive into your story, what can you tell us about Dave and Ann Wilson that maybe we don\u2019t know?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Oh, boy!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Esther: <\/strong>Well, the good stuff or the unedited version? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, the truth is, I\u2019ve been a believer for decades. There\u2019s a lot of criticism that goes around about the church, but there is a lot of beauty that happens in the church. It says in the Book of Psalms that God places the lonely in families, and the Lord did that in my life. When I was being abandoned by my biological family, the church that Dave and Ann were leaders of\u2014are leaders of to this day\u2014stepped in. I lived with families from the church; I went on mission trips with the families of the church; they discipled me. They became, really, my first spiritual family. That\u2019s where the healing that I went through took place; the forgiveness that I was able to extend and also receive from the Lord happened at their church. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI love Dave and Ann; they\u2019re really spiritual parents to so many people of my generation.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Some of our listeners are still back on hearing you say, \u201cI was abandoned by my biological family.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Esther: <\/strong>Yes, that\u2019s never an easy story to tell. My biological father had several mental illnesses\u2014to this day, I don\u2019t know what\u2014but it made him very unstable to live with. Unfortunately, he took a lot of his anger out towards my biological mother; so growing up, I saw a lot of violence and kind of my family fall apart as I knew it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut you know, whatever home life is like, it\u2019s your normal.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Esther: <\/strong>So I just did the best to function; and from the outside, we looked like everything was going okay. My father had a successful business. My mother ended up getting remarried shortly after their divorce; that stepfather ended up having an affair that I found out about; and then my mother left me shortly after. I was 13\/14 years old and really had to find family on my own; I was left to fend for myself.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>She left you\u2014why?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Esther: <\/strong>I don\u2019t know; and I never could know the motives of anyone, right? The Lord searches our motives. I think that, when we have experienced so much brokenness, we pass that on. I think she was deeply wounded, like any woman would be in those circumstances, and was unable to mother me in those years.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Is it fair to say you were a handful as a child?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Esther: <\/strong>You know, that\u2019s a great question. I think any teenage girl probably is; but no, I actually hid my grief and my emotion through achievement, and so\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I was going to say, \u201cEsther, you\u2019ve always been \u2018the good girl.\u2019\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Esther: <\/strong>I was. I really was the good girl, and I think that\u2019s what was confusing. I would try to perform: I was the class president every year from sixth grade up until college; I played three varsity sports; I served every opportunity that I could at the local church. I kept trying to perform my way out of the abandonment that I was experiencing and out of the abuse. It was like, no matter how hard I worked, I still was going through suffering.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>You went through a pretty monumental hurt as you sat in a court room as a young girl. Take us back to that, when your parents were going through a divorce.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Esther: <\/strong>Yes; I was in and out of the court a lot in my elementary-school years, and even into middle school. A lot of that, I was called as a character witness. My father was not mentally well: he was in and out of jail; he was losing his businesses. He just wanted to see me; because there were restraining orders, he was no longer allowed to see me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe would call me as a character witness\u2014even criminal trials\u2014things that I was not privy to information of having; it was very traumatic. There was one instance in particular that I start the book, <em>No More Faking Fine<\/em>, with. I was ten years old, sitting on the witness stand, and my mother and father were on opposite sides of the aisle. My father took out my diary, and they brought it up as Exhibit B and asked me to start reading out of my diary in front of the courtroom. I was just <em>devastated<\/em>; I felt publicly humiliated\/publicly violated. I didn\u2019t understand why neither my mom or dad would stand up for me in that moment. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn a moment [that] I really needed a defender or protector, the judge told me I needed to suck it up; he said, \u201cYou need to answer the line of questioning.\u201d I thought that that\u2019s how God wanted me to deal with pain. I thought, \u201cMan, I really was a good girl,\u201d\u2014I wanted to respect authority\u2014\u201cso this authority figure told me to suck it up,\u201d\u2014I just thought\u2014\u201cWell, God doesn\u2019t want my emotions; my parents don\u2019t want my emotions. I\u2019m supposed to be strong at all times.\u201d I lived that way for the next two decades.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Which is basically why you titled the book\/your first book <em>No More Faking Fine<\/em>\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Esther: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>\u2014which, when I read that title, I thought, \u201cOh!\u201d I kind of sat back and thought, \u201cThis is so good in that so many of us fake being \u2018fine.\u2019\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Esther: <\/strong>We do, and so many of us can even take Christian language\u2014and even Scripture itself\u2014and use it to support that notion that\u2019s not in Scripture. Nowhere does God say, \u201cFake it till you make it.\u201d Nowhere does God say, \u201cFake it and you will be strong.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tInstead, it\u2019s actually: \u201cCome to Me if you\u2019re weary,\u201d \u201cCome to Me if you\u2019re burdened, and I will give you rest.\u201d Actually, when you are at the end of your rope is when God shines and God makes Himself known. But I didn\u2019t know that. I thought that God wanted my performance; and I thought I was supposed to just suck it up and fake fine until, as my family fell apart, I did my best to just achieve and not be a burden to anyone around me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Tell our listeners who you wound up living with during your teen years.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Esther: <\/strong>One of the families that took me in\u2014I was actually on a FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> broadcast, honoring them, years ago\u2014their names are Luther and Rebekah Ellis. I say a little bit about how we met in my new book, <em>Your New Name<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThey are a wonderful family. Luther is a very well-respected former NFL player; and I was serving in the church nursery with their two-year-old son, so I got to know them. They came up to me after a Wednesday night service, and I was in the lobby. I had just been kicked out the day before. I truly did not know where I was going to sleep. They came up to me in the lobby and, I believe being led by the Holy Spirit, said, \u201cIs there anything you need?\u201d I was actually really defensive, because I didn\u2019t know how to communicate my needs. I didn\u2019t know it was okay to have needs, so I brushed it off and faked fine. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRebekah said: \u201cAre you okay? Is everything okay? Do you need anything?\u201d Rebekah\u2019s an introverted woman; so for her to really press in, it was a holy moment that took place in the church lobby. They said, \u201cWhy don\u2019t you come over for dinner tomorrow night?\u201d Luther follows that up with: \u201cDo you need a job? Do you need a car? Do you need a place to sleep?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe only way I can explain it is that the Spirit of God saw that I was in need and used His people to help meet my need; so overnight, I went from a nanny, really, of five children to one of their spiritual daughters. This family\u2014I mean, I saw a godly marriage; I saw how to love and cherish children in the home. Even though I was a 17\/18-year-old girl, they re-parented me and showed me an unconditional love that has shown me the love of God to this day.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>You know what\u2019s <em>really<\/em> cool\u2014I mean, sitting here, listening to you tell this story, Esther is\u2014you know, when Luther came to the Lions as a first-round draft pick, Luther comes in our locker room; and he\u2019s not coming to chapel\/not coming to Bible study. As the chaplain, my <em>dream<\/em> is to be able to share the gospel with every player in that locker room.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI remember walking up to Luther\u2014he\u2019s 6\u20196\u201d, 300-and-something pounds; big huge guy\u2014and we started talking about God. I could sense he\u2019s playing the game; you know: \u201cI know God; I\u2019ve come from a church family, but I\u2019m in the NFL now.\u201d Luther says in his testimony that I looked at him and said: \u201cSo, when are you going to get off the fence and get real with Jesus? When are you going to surrender your life?\u201d It was that day he gave his life to Christ, in front of his locker! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>His wife, Rebekah\u2014they had one baby at the time\u2014she\u2019s 21; she\u2019s never been to church in her life. She comes to my Bible study; we had been talking about John 4 and the woman at the well. Afterwards, she said, \u201cI have never heard <em>any<\/em> of this. Is this for real?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRebekah and I started working out together, early in the morning before our kids went to school. I remember sharing the gospel with her, because I shared with her how I had shared all of this with our youngest son\u2014sharing the gospel\u2014wanting him to know Jesus. It was in that time, she said, \u201cIt was the first time I really heard the gospel and understood and gave my life to Jesus.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSince that time, not only have they had their own biological kids\u2014how many?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Esther: <\/strong>Five.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>And now, they have <em>12<\/em> kids\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u2014adopted.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>\u2014and Esther is then number, really, kind of 13.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Esther:<\/strong> Yes; well, it\u2019s amazing how one person can have impact that affects generations. Dave and Ann discipling this couple, Luther and Rebekah Ellis; and then, immediately, Luther and Rebekah Ellis [saying], \u201cWell, we want to live the gospel. Well, if we\u2019re adopted\/if we were adopted into Christ\u2019s body, then we want to start adopting,\u201d and how that\u2019s exactly what I needed in that moment.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>How long before you let them into your drama and your trauma?\u2014because you\u2019re stoic and, \u201cNo, I don\u2019t need anything\u201d; and they\u2019re saying, \u201cNo, come stay with us.\u201d When did you let the walls down with them?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Esther: <\/strong>Honestly, Bob, I was still in my 20s\u2014and working at a large marriage and family organization, Focus on the Family<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, and I had a great career with them\u2014but it was people that I worked with at the ministry that said, \u201cYou were abused.\u201d I mean, I had to have other people bring this to my attention.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u2014identify.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Esther: <\/strong>Yes; because I still, even when I was living with the Ellises\u2014I mean, they knew that there were hard things that went on\u2014but I didn\u2019t know how to put voice to those memories that I had.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Talk to our listeners; because some of our listeners are still in that\u2014\u201cNo, everything\u2019s okay,\u201d\u2014they\u2019re still faking it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Esther: <\/strong>Sure.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>What changes in a person\u2019s life when they own up to their past; and they put names to it; and they say, \u201cThis is what really happened to me\u201d? What\u2019s the spiritual impact on that in someone\u2019s life?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Esther: <\/strong>Well, it\u2019s generationally, to begin with; but I think we have to look at Scripture to say that <em>nowhere<\/em> does God ask us to minimize our story. Somewhere along the line, we\u2019ve thought, if we minimize what we\u2019ve gone through, it\u2019s somehow going to bring God more glory. We kind of sanitize our stories; we make them sound prettier than they really are. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019ve seen the opposite in the gospel message. Not only that, but there are laments, which is really a cry of grief or anguish or disappointment. There are laments in every single book of the Bible. Can you imagine how thin our Bibles would be if we took out all of the laments that are in Scripture? Yet, I see that there are so many of us Christians that walk around, and we want to remove the laments from our vocabulary. We want to make things sound pretty and look pretty, because we think that somehow it reflects Christ or brings Him more glory. But really, minimizing our story does <em>not<\/em> bring God more glory.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt was a hard awakening for me. I kind of explain my healing process in my 20s as more difficult than the initial abuse; because I think the initial abuse and the initial abandonment, I could numb myself and I could move forward, and fake fine, and achieve. But God loved me enough to want to go deeper; God wanted to <em>heal<\/em> those areas, and God wanted to <em>meet<\/em> me in those areas. I kept Him <em>out<\/em> of those areas, and not even intentionally, a lot of it was subconsciously.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat has been the fruit of that is I believe I am a healthier individual, emotionally and spiritually. I now can embrace people in a lamenting season and not try to fix them, or change them, or think that there\u2019s something wrong with them in the relationship with God.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I would agree with you. Because of the sexual abuse that I went through, growing up, you don\u2019t know what\u2019s not normal; so you just kind of tuck it away in the recesses of your life, and in your mind, and in your heart. I remember, even before Dave and I got married, I had told him about it, without really acknowledging the pain or the hurt that it caused, because I hadn\u2019t acknowledged it myself.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen we got to seminary, we started taking classes on how to counsel people that have been hurt. I\u2019ll never forget, for the first time, acknowledging and admitting that I had been sexually abused and letting it sink into my heart. I cried for <em>weeks<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Esther: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I would agree with you; that pain was so much greater than actually what had happened years and years ago. It was <em>grieving<\/em> and lamenting about what had happened and what I had lost. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI don\u2019t think Dave really knew what to do with me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I thought we were going to counseling class to learn how to counsel others, not realizing God needed to deal with our wounds first, to say, \u201cI need to heal you so that you can be a healer.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Esther: <\/strong>Yes, right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>You know, we didn\u2019t really grow up as much in the church; but we learned, very quickly as we got involved in the church, that that was a place you <em>hid<\/em> your stuff. That was not a place you <em>talked<\/em> about your stuff; it was <em>sad<\/em>, but you just didn\u2019t.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I don\u2019t think I learned that; so I would just talk about it from the stage\u2014or if someone was talking or interviewing us\u2014I would just let it all out. I think they were like, \u201cAhhh! What is she doing?!\u201d I think some people were kind of aghast, like, \u201cWhy is she talking about this?\u201d\u2014which, then, I felt great shame\u2014like: \u201cAm I not allowed to talk about it? Should I not talk about it?\u201d Yet there were others that would come secretly and say, \u201cThank you!\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHave you found that even in your own life\u2014even as people have read <em>No More Faking Fine<\/em>\u2014kind of that \u201cThank you\u201d?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Esther: <\/strong>Absolutely. I think, you know, I was wanting to give people the permission to lament in the church. I mean, really, when you look at the Book of Psalms, they were a songbook for the Jewish people; and the majority of the psalms are laments. But yet, when you go to a worship service nowadays, it\u2019s really hard to\u2014you don\u2019t really hear lamenting songs. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019ve heard from even pastors and worship leaders\u2014that they\u2019ve incorporated a time of lament in their services\u2014because there are families all around us that are hurting; there are marriages that are hurting; there are children that are hurting. We have to allow that space in our Christian walk: both for the celebrating with those who celebrate but also weeping with those who weep. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>When you weep with those who weep, or when you allow yourself to lament or even create a space for others, where does that lead?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Esther: <\/strong>Well, it\u2019s always, I would say, difficult. It\u2019s not like the majority of us like sitting in brokenness. It\u2019s always a little bit uncomfortable, and you normally want to get people out of that season sooner than, probably, God does. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat I have found is that God is deeply attracted to us in our brokenness. It says that \u201cHe saves those who are crushed in spirit\u201d; it says that we\u2019re blessed when we mourn\u2014that He comforts us\u2014so there\u2019s the deep intimacy that takes place with a lamenter or hurting person and God.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, I look at it like I don\u2019t want to rush people out of that. You know, if God\u2019s going to meet them and speak to them in their brokenness, I don\u2019t want to just pray the brokenness away. I want God to meet them in that\/transform them. That\u2019s the thing: there\u2019s not a one-size-fits-all that come through lament; God speaks so personally and individually to each [person].\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSome laments you see they start crying out to God and then they end in praise; that\u2019s beautiful. Some laments, like Psalm 44 and Psalm 88, begin and end in darkness; and there just has to be this element of <em>faith<\/em>. You know, some laments say, \u201cSurely I will see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living,\u201d and there\u2019s this hope that that won\u2019t be the end of their story.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI can say, coming through a prolonged season of suffering\/a prolonged season of abandonment\u2014and then later stalking, which I share about in the first book\u2014I can say that God never left me in a lament. I think lament is going to be part of our language here, as Christians. Every single one of us, even non-believers, will lament; but for the Christian, lament is <em>never<\/em> our final language, and it\u2019s <em>not<\/em> our final song. There is <em>great<\/em> hope in that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>After you wrote <em>No More Faking Fine<\/em>, you followed it up with this book you\u2019ve just written called <em>Your New Name<\/em>. Are they connected, the two books?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Esther: <\/strong>You know, they are. I don\u2019t think you have to read <em>No More Faking Fine<\/em> in order to understand <em>Your New Name<\/em>. What I\u2019ve found was there\u2019s a Scripture in \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tPsalm 40, verse 3, that says that God gives us a new song\/a hymn of praise. That word, \u201cnew,\u201d means He has done something that we can now testify about that we could not have previously sung about. When you come through a season of lament, there is going to be a new testimony that God births in you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe talk about a lot of news\u2014you know, we talk about the <em>New<\/em> Testament, the <em>new<\/em> covenant\u2014but no one\u2019s talking about the new name that God gives us. We become a new creation. He\u2019s constantly doing <em>new<\/em> things in our lives that we can testify about; and many times, that new thing is going to be on the other side of a lament.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Esther, what would be some steps\/some first steps? How do we begin the lament process?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Esther: <\/strong>In the Book of Genesis, after Adam and Eve had sinned, God said, \u201cAdam, where are you?\u201d He was asking Adam to identify where he was at. We see a similar pattern with Jacob\u2014after Jacob was running\u2014he had stolen Esau\u2019s birthright; he was running from God. God asked Jacob, \u201cWhat is your name?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere is this pattern that we see in the Bible, that God asks us where we\u2019re at. I think we need to stop pretending, and wherever we\u2019re at\u2014whether it\u2019s full of faith, full of doubt, full of fear, full of insecurity\u2014we can answer honestly to God where we\u2019re at. That is an entry point for Him to come in and to do His work.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And the recognition, in the midst of that, that God is doing and will continue to do a new work\u2014a new thing\/a new name\u2014all of that is a part of the hope that we find in the midst of that difficulty. This is something you talk about in your new book, which is called <em>Your New Name: Saying Goodbye to the Labels that Limit<\/em>; and it\u2019s something you talked about in your first book, which is called <em>No More Faking Fine: Ending the Pretending.<\/em> \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe have both of these books in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. I think these are both books\u2014if you struggle with your sense of self, having a biblical understanding of your worth and your value before God: that you\u2019re created in His image, that He loves you, that He values you, that you are His child\/all of these things that are true about us\u2014if these are things you struggle with, get copies of Esther\u2019s books, <em>No More Faking Fine<\/em> and <em>Your New Name. <\/em>Go to FamilyLifeToday.com; there\u2019s information about the books available there. You can order both of them from us, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can call to order: 1-800-FL-TODAY is the number. Again, our website is FamilyLifeToday.com; or call 1-800-358-6329 to get your copy of either of Esther\u2019s books: 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think a lot of us would have to acknowledge that the last several months have been months where we have maybe spent more time in more regular prayer than normal. The circumstances of life\u2014the circumstances we\u2019ve been going through as families\/in our country\u2014have driven us to our knees, and that\u2019s a good place to be driven to. Yet, often, we find ourselves needing help to know how to express what is on our heart before God. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBarbara Rainey has just written a new book on the subject of prayer; her book is called <em>My Heart, Ever His<\/em>. This month, we\u2019re making that book available to those of you who can help support the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today. <\/em>In this challenging season, we want to equip you with resources that will strengthen your relationship with God\/your relationship with each other, and Barbara\u2019s book is a great resource to that end.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOf course, our financial needs, as a ministry, during this season are very real, as I know they are for many families in America and for many churches. We want to ask you to be as generous as you can be during this time; and if you\u2019re able to help support the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, just know how grateful we are for that support, and know how many tens of thousands of people are being affected because of your investment in the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em> They\u2019re being impacted by this radio program, by what they find available to them online, the resources we\u2019re able to provide. You make that possible every time you donate. So thank you for your financial support. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou can donate, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to donate. Be sure to ask for a copy of Barbara\u2019s book; it\u2019s our thank-you gift to you when you donate to support the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tTomorrow, we\u2019re going to hear about the new name that Esther Fleece Allen got when she got married. It\u2019s a great story; it\u2019s a part of her decision to end the pretending. I hope you can tune in for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2020 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:29:27"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["26.97M"],"filesize_raw":["28283170"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-305975.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-305975.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom 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by her abusive father when she was young, and her mother several years later, author Esther Fleece Allen only began to understand what a real, godly family looked like after being taken in by a family at her church.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2020-05-04.pdf","transcript_content":"<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Hard times\u2014times that Esther Fleece Allen refers to as seasons of lament\u2014we should not be surprised when these are a part of our experience as followers of Jesus.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Esther: <\/strong>I think lament is going to be part of our language here, as Christians. Every single one of us, even non-believers, will lament; but for the Christian, lament is <em>never<\/em> our final language, and it\u2019s <em>not<\/em> our final song. I can say, coming through a prolonged season of suffering\/a prolonged season of abandonment, I can say that God never left me in a lament; and there is great hope in that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Monday, May 4<sup>th<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I'm Bob Lepine. You\u2019ll find us online at FamilyLifeToday.com. Do you know how to lament well before God?\u2014how to go through hard seasons and find God in the midst of those? We\u2019re going to talk today with Esther Fleece Allen about that. Stay with us.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. I just feel like I\u2019m done for today; like I am not going to ask any questions. [Laughter] We have somebody here with us today\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>We have a great friend here with us today.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>You have known her since\u2014how long?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u2014she was a little girl.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Introduce to our listeners who this is.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>This is our friend Esther Fleece Allen. She grew up where Dave and I grew up\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>She was Esther Fleece when she was growing up, right?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Yes, right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>She started coming to our church. She\u2019s an impact person; wherever she goes, she makes an impact. She\u2019s strong; she <em>loves<\/em> Jesus. God has really taken her on a beautiful, but hard, journey. She\u2019s shared about it; this is her second book, and we\u2019re going to talk about her second book.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Yes, I actually can remember walking out of the Silverdome<sup>\u2122<\/sup> tunnel, after a game, with players; Esther would be usually with the Ellis family. I did not know all of her backstory until her first book, <em>No More Faking Fine<\/em>, when she sent me an advance reader copy. I texted her and said, \u201cThis is one great book\/unbelievable book.\u201d It was in that book I read her backstory, which happened right under our noses, and didn\u2019t even know what was going on.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Before we dive into your story, what can you tell us about Dave and Ann Wilson that maybe we don\u2019t know?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>Oh, boy!\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Esther: <\/strong>Well, the good stuff or the unedited version? [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, the truth is, I\u2019ve been a believer for decades. There\u2019s a lot of criticism that goes around about the church, but there is a lot of beauty that happens in the church. It says in the Book of Psalms that God places the lonely in families, and the Lord did that in my life. When I was being abandoned by my biological family, the church that Dave and Ann were leaders of\u2014are leaders of to this day\u2014stepped in. I lived with families from the church; I went on mission trips with the families of the church; they discipled me. They became, really, my first spiritual family. That\u2019s where the healing that I went through took place; the forgiveness that I was able to extend and also receive from the Lord happened at their church. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI love Dave and Ann; they\u2019re really spiritual parents to so many people of my generation.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Some of our listeners are still back on hearing you say, \u201cI was abandoned by my biological family.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Esther: <\/strong>Yes, that\u2019s never an easy story to tell. My biological father had several mental illnesses\u2014to this day, I don\u2019t know what\u2014but it made him very unstable to live with. Unfortunately, he took a lot of his anger out towards my biological mother; so growing up, I saw a lot of violence and kind of my family fall apart as I knew it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut you know, whatever home life is like, it\u2019s your normal.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Esther: <\/strong>So I just did the best to function; and from the outside, we looked like everything was going okay. My father had a successful business. My mother ended up getting remarried shortly after their divorce; that stepfather ended up having an affair that I found out about; and then my mother left me shortly after. I was 13\/14 years old and really had to find family on my own; I was left to fend for myself.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>She left you\u2014why?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Esther: <\/strong>I don\u2019t know; and I never could know the motives of anyone, right? The Lord searches our motives. I think that, when we have experienced so much brokenness, we pass that on. I think she was deeply wounded, like any woman would be in those circumstances, and was unable to mother me in those years.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Is it fair to say you were a handful as a child?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Esther: <\/strong>You know, that\u2019s a great question. I think any teenage girl probably is; but no, I actually hid my grief and my emotion through achievement, and so\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I was going to say, \u201cEsther, you\u2019ve always been \u2018the good girl.\u2019\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Esther: <\/strong>I was. I really was the good girl, and I think that\u2019s what was confusing. I would try to perform: I was the class president every year from sixth grade up until college; I played three varsity sports; I served every opportunity that I could at the local church. I kept trying to perform my way out of the abandonment that I was experiencing and out of the abuse. It was like, no matter how hard I worked, I still was going through suffering.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>You went through a pretty monumental hurt as you sat in a court room as a young girl. Take us back to that, when your parents were going through a divorce.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Esther: <\/strong>Yes; I was in and out of the court a lot in my elementary-school years, and even into middle school. A lot of that, I was called as a character witness. My father was not mentally well: he was in and out of jail; he was losing his businesses. He just wanted to see me; because there were restraining orders, he was no longer allowed to see me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe would call me as a character witness\u2014even criminal trials\u2014things that I was not privy to information of having; it was very traumatic. There was one instance in particular that I start the book, <em>No More Faking Fine<\/em>, with. I was ten years old, sitting on the witness stand, and my mother and father were on opposite sides of the aisle. My father took out my diary, and they brought it up as Exhibit B and asked me to start reading out of my diary in front of the courtroom. I was just <em>devastated<\/em>; I felt publicly humiliated\/publicly violated. I didn\u2019t understand why neither my mom or dad would stand up for me in that moment. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIn a moment [that] I really needed a defender or protector, the judge told me I needed to suck it up; he said, \u201cYou need to answer the line of questioning.\u201d I thought that that\u2019s how God wanted me to deal with pain. I thought, \u201cMan, I really was a good girl,\u201d\u2014I wanted to respect authority\u2014\u201cso this authority figure told me to suck it up,\u201d\u2014I just thought\u2014\u201cWell, God doesn\u2019t want my emotions; my parents don\u2019t want my emotions. I\u2019m supposed to be strong at all times.\u201d I lived that way for the next two decades.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Which is basically why you titled the book\/your first book <em>No More Faking Fine<\/em>\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Esther: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>\u2014which, when I read that title, I thought, \u201cOh!\u201d I kind of sat back and thought, \u201cThis is so good in that so many of us fake being \u2018fine.\u2019\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Esther: <\/strong>We do, and so many of us can even take Christian language\u2014and even Scripture itself\u2014and use it to support that notion that\u2019s not in Scripture. Nowhere does God say, \u201cFake it till you make it.\u201d Nowhere does God say, \u201cFake it and you will be strong.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tInstead, it\u2019s actually: \u201cCome to Me if you\u2019re weary,\u201d \u201cCome to Me if you\u2019re burdened, and I will give you rest.\u201d Actually, when you are at the end of your rope is when God shines and God makes Himself known. But I didn\u2019t know that. I thought that God wanted my performance; and I thought I was supposed to just suck it up and fake fine until, as my family fell apart, I did my best to just achieve and not be a burden to anyone around me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Tell our listeners who you wound up living with during your teen years.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Esther: <\/strong>One of the families that took me in\u2014I was actually on a FamilyLife<sup>\u00ae<\/sup> broadcast, honoring them, years ago\u2014their names are Luther and Rebekah Ellis. I say a little bit about how we met in my new book, <em>Your New Name<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThey are a wonderful family. Luther is a very well-respected former NFL player; and I was serving in the church nursery with their two-year-old son, so I got to know them. They came up to me after a Wednesday night service, and I was in the lobby. I had just been kicked out the day before. I truly did not know where I was going to sleep. They came up to me in the lobby and, I believe being led by the Holy Spirit, said, \u201cIs there anything you need?\u201d I was actually really defensive, because I didn\u2019t know how to communicate my needs. I didn\u2019t know it was okay to have needs, so I brushed it off and faked fine. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRebekah said: \u201cAre you okay? Is everything okay? Do you need anything?\u201d Rebekah\u2019s an introverted woman; so for her to really press in, it was a holy moment that took place in the church lobby. They said, \u201cWhy don\u2019t you come over for dinner tomorrow night?\u201d Luther follows that up with: \u201cDo you need a job? Do you need a car? Do you need a place to sleep?\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe only way I can explain it is that the Spirit of God saw that I was in need and used His people to help meet my need; so overnight, I went from a nanny, really, of five children to one of their spiritual daughters. This family\u2014I mean, I saw a godly marriage; I saw how to love and cherish children in the home. Even though I was a 17\/18-year-old girl, they re-parented me and showed me an unconditional love that has shown me the love of God to this day.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>You know what\u2019s <em>really<\/em> cool\u2014I mean, sitting here, listening to you tell this story, Esther is\u2014you know, when Luther came to the Lions as a first-round draft pick, Luther comes in our locker room; and he\u2019s not coming to chapel\/not coming to Bible study. As the chaplain, my <em>dream<\/em> is to be able to share the gospel with every player in that locker room.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI remember walking up to Luther\u2014he\u2019s 6\u20196\u201d, 300-and-something pounds; big huge guy\u2014and we started talking about God. I could sense he\u2019s playing the game; you know: \u201cI know God; I\u2019ve come from a church family, but I\u2019m in the NFL now.\u201d Luther says in his testimony that I looked at him and said: \u201cSo, when are you going to get off the fence and get real with Jesus? When are you going to surrender your life?\u201d It was that day he gave his life to Christ, in front of his locker! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>His wife, Rebekah\u2014they had one baby at the time\u2014she\u2019s 21; she\u2019s never been to church in her life. She comes to my Bible study; we had been talking about John 4 and the woman at the well. Afterwards, she said, \u201cI have never heard <em>any<\/em> of this. Is this for real?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tRebekah and I started working out together, early in the morning before our kids went to school. I remember sharing the gospel with her, because I shared with her how I had shared all of this with our youngest son\u2014sharing the gospel\u2014wanting him to know Jesus. It was in that time, she said, \u201cIt was the first time I really heard the gospel and understood and gave my life to Jesus.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSince that time, not only have they had their own biological kids\u2014how many?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Esther: <\/strong>Five.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>And now, they have <em>12<\/em> kids\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u2014adopted.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>\u2014and Esther is then number, really, kind of 13.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Esther:<\/strong> Yes; well, it\u2019s amazing how one person can have impact that affects generations. Dave and Ann discipling this couple, Luther and Rebekah Ellis; and then, immediately, Luther and Rebekah Ellis [saying], \u201cWell, we want to live the gospel. Well, if we\u2019re adopted\/if we were adopted into Christ\u2019s body, then we want to start adopting,\u201d and how that\u2019s exactly what I needed in that moment.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>How long before you let them into your drama and your trauma?\u2014because you\u2019re stoic and, \u201cNo, I don\u2019t need anything\u201d; and they\u2019re saying, \u201cNo, come stay with us.\u201d When did you let the walls down with them?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Esther: <\/strong>Honestly, Bob, I was still in my 20s\u2014and working at a large marriage and family organization, Focus on the Family<sup>\u00ae<\/sup>, and I had a great career with them\u2014but it was people that I worked with at the ministry that said, \u201cYou were abused.\u201d I mean, I had to have other people bring this to my attention.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>\u2014identify.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Esther: <\/strong>Yes; because I still, even when I was living with the Ellises\u2014I mean, they knew that there were hard things that went on\u2014but I didn\u2019t know how to put voice to those memories that I had.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>Talk to our listeners; because some of our listeners are still in that\u2014\u201cNo, everything\u2019s okay,\u201d\u2014they\u2019re still faking it.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Esther: <\/strong>Sure.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>What changes in a person\u2019s life when they own up to their past; and they put names to it; and they say, \u201cThis is what really happened to me\u201d? What\u2019s the spiritual impact on that in someone\u2019s life?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Esther: <\/strong>Well, it\u2019s generationally, to begin with; but I think we have to look at Scripture to say that <em>nowhere<\/em> does God ask us to minimize our story. Somewhere along the line, we\u2019ve thought, if we minimize what we\u2019ve gone through, it\u2019s somehow going to bring God more glory. We kind of sanitize our stories; we make them sound prettier than they really are. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe\u2019ve seen the opposite in the gospel message. Not only that, but there are laments, which is really a cry of grief or anguish or disappointment. There are laments in every single book of the Bible. Can you imagine how thin our Bibles would be if we took out all of the laments that are in Scripture? Yet, I see that there are so many of us Christians that walk around, and we want to remove the laments from our vocabulary. We want to make things sound pretty and look pretty, because we think that somehow it reflects Christ or brings Him more glory. But really, minimizing our story does <em>not<\/em> bring God more glory.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt was a hard awakening for me. I kind of explain my healing process in my 20s as more difficult than the initial abuse; because I think the initial abuse and the initial abandonment, I could numb myself and I could move forward, and fake fine, and achieve. But God loved me enough to want to go deeper; God wanted to <em>heal<\/em> those areas, and God wanted to <em>meet<\/em> me in those areas. I kept Him <em>out<\/em> of those areas, and not even intentionally, a lot of it was subconsciously.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat has been the fruit of that is I believe I am a healthier individual, emotionally and spiritually. I now can embrace people in a lamenting season and not try to fix them, or change them, or think that there\u2019s something wrong with them in the relationship with God.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I would agree with you. Because of the sexual abuse that I went through, growing up, you don\u2019t know what\u2019s not normal; so you just kind of tuck it away in the recesses of your life, and in your mind, and in your heart. I remember, even before Dave and I got married, I had told him about it, without really acknowledging the pain or the hurt that it caused, because I hadn\u2019t acknowledged it myself.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhen we got to seminary, we started taking classes on how to counsel people that have been hurt. I\u2019ll never forget, for the first time, acknowledging and admitting that I had been sexually abused and letting it sink into my heart. I cried for <em>weeks<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Esther: <\/strong>Yes.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I would agree with you; that pain was so much greater than actually what had happened years and years ago. It was <em>grieving<\/em> and lamenting about what had happened and what I had lost. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI don\u2019t think Dave really knew what to do with me.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>I thought we were going to counseling class to learn how to counsel others, not realizing God needed to deal with our wounds first, to say, \u201cI need to heal you so that you can be a healer.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Esther: <\/strong>Yes, right.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>You know, we didn\u2019t really grow up as much in the church; but we learned, very quickly as we got involved in the church, that that was a place you <em>hid<\/em> your stuff. That was not a place you <em>talked<\/em> about your stuff; it was <em>sad<\/em>, but you just didn\u2019t.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>I don\u2019t think I learned that; so I would just talk about it from the stage\u2014or if someone was talking or interviewing us\u2014I would just let it all out. I think they were like, \u201cAhhh! What is she doing?!\u201d I think some people were kind of aghast, like, \u201cWhy is she talking about this?\u201d\u2014which, then, I felt great shame\u2014like: \u201cAm I not allowed to talk about it? Should I not talk about it?\u201d Yet there were others that would come secretly and say, \u201cThank you!\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHave you found that even in your own life\u2014even as people have read <em>No More Faking Fine<\/em>\u2014kind of that \u201cThank you\u201d?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Esther: <\/strong>Absolutely. I think, you know, I was wanting to give people the permission to lament in the church. I mean, really, when you look at the Book of Psalms, they were a songbook for the Jewish people; and the majority of the psalms are laments. But yet, when you go to a worship service nowadays, it\u2019s really hard to\u2014you don\u2019t really hear lamenting songs. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019ve heard from even pastors and worship leaders\u2014that they\u2019ve incorporated a time of lament in their services\u2014because there are families all around us that are hurting; there are marriages that are hurting; there are children that are hurting. We have to allow that space in our Christian walk: both for the celebrating with those who celebrate but also weeping with those who weep. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave: <\/strong>When you weep with those who weep, or when you allow yourself to lament or even create a space for others, where does that lead?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Esther: <\/strong>Well, it\u2019s always, I would say, difficult. It\u2019s not like the majority of us like sitting in brokenness. It\u2019s always a little bit uncomfortable, and you normally want to get people out of that season sooner than, probably, God does. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWhat I have found is that God is deeply attracted to us in our brokenness. It says that \u201cHe saves those who are crushed in spirit\u201d; it says that we\u2019re blessed when we mourn\u2014that He comforts us\u2014so there\u2019s the deep intimacy that takes place with a lamenter or hurting person and God.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, I look at it like I don\u2019t want to rush people out of that. You know, if God\u2019s going to meet them and speak to them in their brokenness, I don\u2019t want to just pray the brokenness away. I want God to meet them in that\/transform them. That\u2019s the thing: there\u2019s not a one-size-fits-all that come through lament; God speaks so personally and individually to each [person].\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSome laments you see they start crying out to God and then they end in praise; that\u2019s beautiful. Some laments, like Psalm 44 and Psalm 88, begin and end in darkness; and there just has to be this element of <em>faith<\/em>. You know, some laments say, \u201cSurely I will see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living,\u201d and there\u2019s this hope that that won\u2019t be the end of their story.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI can say, coming through a prolonged season of suffering\/a prolonged season of abandonment\u2014and then later stalking, which I share about in the first book\u2014I can say that God never left me in a lament. I think lament is going to be part of our language here, as Christians. Every single one of us, even non-believers, will lament; but for the Christian, lament is <em>never<\/em> our final language, and it\u2019s <em>not<\/em> our final song. There is <em>great<\/em> hope in that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>After you wrote <em>No More Faking Fine<\/em>, you followed it up with this book you\u2019ve just written called <em>Your New Name<\/em>. Are they connected, the two books?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Esther: <\/strong>You know, they are. I don\u2019t think you have to read <em>No More Faking Fine<\/em> in order to understand <em>Your New Name<\/em>. What I\u2019ve found was there\u2019s a Scripture in \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tPsalm 40, verse 3, that says that God gives us a new song\/a hymn of praise. That word, \u201cnew,\u201d means He has done something that we can now testify about that we could not have previously sung about. When you come through a season of lament, there is going to be a new testimony that God births in you. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe talk about a lot of news\u2014you know, we talk about the <em>New<\/em> Testament, the <em>new<\/em> covenant\u2014but no one\u2019s talking about the new name that God gives us. We become a new creation. He\u2019s constantly doing <em>new<\/em> things in our lives that we can testify about; and many times, that new thing is going to be on the other side of a lament.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann: <\/strong>Esther, what would be some steps\/some first steps? How do we begin the lament process?\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Esther: <\/strong>In the Book of Genesis, after Adam and Eve had sinned, God said, \u201cAdam, where are you?\u201d He was asking Adam to identify where he was at. We see a similar pattern with Jacob\u2014after Jacob was running\u2014he had stolen Esau\u2019s birthright; he was running from God. God asked Jacob, \u201cWhat is your name?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThere is this pattern that we see in the Bible, that God asks us where we\u2019re at. I think we need to stop pretending, and wherever we\u2019re at\u2014whether it\u2019s full of faith, full of doubt, full of fear, full of insecurity\u2014we can answer honestly to God where we\u2019re at. That is an entry point for Him to come in and to do His work.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob: <\/strong>And the recognition, in the midst of that, that God is doing and will continue to do a new work\u2014a new thing\/a new name\u2014all of that is a part of the hope that we find in the midst of that difficulty. This is something you talk about in your new book, which is called <em>Your New Name: Saying Goodbye to the Labels that Limit<\/em>; and it\u2019s something you talked about in your first book, which is called <em>No More Faking Fine: Ending the Pretending.<\/em> \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe have both of these books in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center. I think these are both books\u2014if you struggle with your sense of self, having a biblical understanding of your worth and your value before God: that you\u2019re created in His image, that He loves you, that He values you, that you are His child\/all of these things that are true about us\u2014if these are things you struggle with, get copies of Esther\u2019s books, <em>No More Faking Fine<\/em> and <em>Your New Name. <\/em>Go to FamilyLifeToday.com; there\u2019s information about the books available there. You can order both of them from us, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can call to order: 1-800-FL-TODAY is the number. Again, our website is FamilyLifeToday.com; or call 1-800-358-6329 to get your copy of either of Esther\u2019s books: 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think a lot of us would have to acknowledge that the last several months have been months where we have maybe spent more time in more regular prayer than normal. The circumstances of life\u2014the circumstances we\u2019ve been going through as families\/in our country\u2014have driven us to our knees, and that\u2019s a good place to be driven to. Yet, often, we find ourselves needing help to know how to express what is on our heart before God. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBarbara Rainey has just written a new book on the subject of prayer; her book is called <em>My Heart, Ever His<\/em>. This month, we\u2019re making that book available to those of you who can help support the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today. <\/em>In this challenging season, we want to equip you with resources that will strengthen your relationship with God\/your relationship with each other, and Barbara\u2019s book is a great resource to that end.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tOf course, our financial needs, as a ministry, during this season are very real, as I know they are for many families in America and for many churches. We want to ask you to be as generous as you can be during this time; and if you\u2019re able to help support the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>, just know how grateful we are for that support, and know how many tens of thousands of people are being affected because of your investment in the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today.<\/em> They\u2019re being impacted by this radio program, by what they find available to them online, the resources we\u2019re able to provide. You make that possible every time you donate. So thank you for your financial support. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou can donate, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to donate. Be sure to ask for a copy of Barbara\u2019s book; it\u2019s our thank-you gift to you when you donate to support the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tTomorrow, we\u2019re going to hear about the new name that Esther Fleece Allen got when she got married. It\u2019s a great story; it\u2019s a part of her decision to end the pretending. I hope you can tune in for that.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2020 FamilyLife. 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