{"id":305941,"date":"2020-04-21T07:00:04","date_gmt":"2020-04-21T11:00:04","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/%series%\/sticking-together\/"},"modified":"2020-04-21T07:00:04","modified_gmt":"2020-04-21T11:00:04","slug":"sticking-together","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/sticking-together\/","title":{"rendered":"Sticking Together"},"content":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>When your spouse is in a season of suffering, how do you help them? Dave Harvey reminds us that how we respond to suffering says a lot about our understanding of marriage.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":294104,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_seopress_robots_primary_cat":"","_seopress_titles_title":"","_seopress_titles_desc":"","_seopress_robots_index":"","inline_featured_image":false,"_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","episode_type":"","audio_file":"https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2020-04-21.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"00:26:57","filesize":"24.68M","filesize_raw":"25881474","date_recorded":"","explicit":"","block":""},"categories":[2809,2820],"tags":[2877],"podcast_series":[8353],"cwp_profile":[3284],"series":[2101],"class_list":["post-305941","podcast","type-podcast","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-commitment","category-lifelong-marriages","tag-marriage","podcast_series-i-still-do-2020","cwp_profile-dave-harvey","series-familylife-today"],"acf":[],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2024\/09\/FLT-Podcast-Cover-2-508x508-3.jpg?w=508","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/1001\/2023\/02\/image-scaled.jpg","download_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-download\/305941\/sticking-together","player_link":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast-player\/305941\/sticking-together","audio_player":null,"episode_data":{"playerMode":"light","subscribeUrls":{"apple_podcasts":{"key":"apple_podcasts","url":"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/familylife-today\/id212174303?mt=2&app=podcast","label":"Apple Podcasts","class":"apple_podcasts","icon":"apple-podcasts.png"},"google_podcasts":{"key":"google_podcasts","url":"","label":"Google Podcasts","class":"google_podcasts","icon":"google-podcasts.png"},"spotify":{"key":"spotify","url":"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0j5UaKdQOHQCuo1bt0ebEm","label":"Spotify","class":"spotify","icon":"spotify.png"},"youtube":{"key":"youtube","url":"","label":"YouTube","class":"youtube","icon":"youtube.png"}},"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/feed\/podcast\/familylife-today","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"g3ih2Nrmm9\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/sticking-together\/\">Sticking Together<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/podcast\/familylife-today\/sticking-together\/embed\/#?secret=g3ih2Nrmm9\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Sticking Together&#8221; &#8212; FamilyLife\u00ae - A Cru Ministry\" data-secret=\"g3ih2Nrmm9\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script>\n\/*! This file is auto-generated *\/\n!function(d,l){\"use strict\";l.querySelector&&d.addEventListener&&\"undefined\"!=typeof URL&&(d.wp=d.wp||{},d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage||(d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage=function(e){var t=e.data;if((t||t.secret||t.message||t.value)&&!\/[^a-zA-Z0-9]\/.test(t.secret)){for(var s,r,n,a=l.querySelectorAll('iframe[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),o=l.querySelectorAll('blockquote[data-secret=\"'+t.secret+'\"]'),c=new RegExp(\"^https?:$\",\"i\"),i=0;i<o.length;i++)o[i].style.display=\"none\";for(i=0;i<a.length;i++)s=a[i],e.source===s.contentWindow&&(s.removeAttribute(\"style\"),\"height\"===t.message?(1e3<(r=parseInt(t.value,10))?r=1e3:~~r<200&&(r=200),s.height=r):\"link\"===t.message&&(r=new URL(s.getAttribute(\"src\")),n=new URL(t.value),c.test(n.protocol))&&n.host===r.host&&l.activeElement===s&&(d.top.location.href=t.value))}},d.addEventListener(\"message\",d.wp.receiveEmbedMessage,!1),l.addEventListener(\"DOMContentLoaded\",function(){for(var e,t,s=l.querySelectorAll(\"iframe.wp-embedded-content\"),r=0;r<s.length;r++)(t=(e=s[r]).getAttribute(\"data-secret\"))||(t=Math.random().toString(36).substring(2,12),e.src+=\"#?secret=\"+t,e.setAttribute(\"data-secret\",t)),e.contentWindow.postMessage({message:\"ready\",secret:t},\"*\")},!1)))}(window,document);\n\/\/# sourceURL=https:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/wp-includes\/js\/wp-embed.min.js\n<\/script>\n"},"spectra_custom_meta":{"_wp_page_template":["default"],"transcript_url":["https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2020-04-21.pdf"],"audio_file":["https:\/\/mp3.familylife.com\/fl2020-04-21.mp3"],"transcript_content":["<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> One of Jesus\u2019 promises to us is that in this world we will have trials\/tribulation. Dave Harvey says that\u2019s true for our marriage as well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave H.:<\/strong> Suffering is remarkably disruptive to a marriage; and a lot of times, we don\u2019t get that. We don\u2019t see that God doesn\u2019t just kind of allow this as if He doesn\u2019t control this, but there is a loving God that introduces these things because He wants to do a work that can only be achieved in this manner. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Tuesday, April 21<sup>st<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I\u2019m Bob Lepine. You\u2019ll find us online at FamilyLifeToday.com. Have you stopped to think about how seasons of difficulty\/seasons of suffering have impacted your relationship as a couple in marriage? We\u2019ll explore that today with our guest, Dave Harvey. Stay with us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. I have to tell you guys\u2014when I picked up a copy of Dave Harvey\u2019s new book called <em>I Still Do<\/em>\u2014and I saw the subtitle, which is <em>Growing Closer and Stronger Through Life\u2019s Defining Moments<\/em>\u2014I thought of you, because we\u2019ve all had defining moments; your book, <em>Vertical Marriage<\/em>, is about a lot of those defining moments in your marriage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think all of us can look back and go, \u201cThere have been landmark moments in our lives\/in our marriage that have reshaped us and made us think differently about who we are and about how we interact with one another.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And often, those moments are hard. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> They are not the\u2014I mean, they can be mountaintop moments; but they are often very difficult. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, Bob, you\u2019ve heard us say: \u201cWhen that moment, on our ten-year anniversary, when Ann said, \u2018I\u2019ve lost my feelings for you,\u2019\u2014and we started to walk into that\u2014I remember consciously thinking, \u2018No one will ever hear this story. [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201c\u2019This is going to be a private, little\u2014hopefully, we get through it\u2014moment in our life that we will just keep to ourselves\u2019\u201d; and yet, God shows up. It\u2019s like there are <em>a lot<\/em> of people, who have this moment, and they need to see where God can meet them and take them through it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And those moments are like forks in a path\u2014like, \u201cWhich way will you go?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And we\u2019re all faced with those, and it\u2019s not easy. We do remember those defining moments because they change us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I\u2019ve said to people\u2014for years, I\u2019ve said: \u201cLook back at your life and ask yourself this question: \u2018Times of accelerated spiritual growth: have they been times when everything was going really well, and when God was blessing you, and there was abundance?\u2014or have they been times when you have been in the valley, when you\u2019ve been fighting. when there have been hard times?\u201d Everybody says, \u201cMy growth is accelerated [in hard times].\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>So, if your goal is\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014to be more like Jesus, you\u2019re going to have to walk through hard times that are the sanding device that God uses to rub off the rough edges. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDave Harvey is joining us again on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Dave, welcome back. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave H.:<\/strong> It\u2019s great to be back, Bob. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Dave is an author; he is a speaker. He is a pastor for more than 30 years. He wrote a book, a decade ago, called <em>When Sinners Say \u201cI Do\u201d<\/em> and wound up involved in our <em>Art of Marriage<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> video series which, if our listeners have been through that series, they\u2019ve benefitted from Dave\u2019s contribution and his wisdom to that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDave has written a new book on marriage called <em>I Still Do<\/em>, and it\u2019s all about defining moments. You\u2019ve identified some of those paradigm moments that most of us go through in marriage and talked about: the beginning part of our marriage and some of the common moments couples go through, the heart of the marriage relationship when we learn to stick together and become one, and then how we end well together. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave H.:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Were you aware of defining moments in your own marriage? Was that what led you to kind of unpack some of this? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave H.:<\/strong> In part, yes. The book is built around 11 specific defining moments. I would say that many of them were defining moments that Kim and I experienced; and then others, just in looking over people that we\u2019ve had the privilege of counseling with or gotten to know over time. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I\u2019ve shared before that one of the defining moments in our marriage\u2014at least, for me\u2014was when we had moved. This was early in our marriage; we had moved from the city that Mary Ann had grown up in\/where her family was. We were now living in Phoenix, Arizona. I was there with a new job; she was pregnant with our second child. We had just moved into a house that she had not seen before I purchased it\u2014which by the way\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Whoa! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014uh-huh, yes; talk about a rookie mistake. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tShe was depressed. I would come home at the end of the day, and I\u2019d do everything I could to turn on my sparkle magic and try to bring joy and happiness into the household. Here is how I <em>knew<\/em> how bad it was. It was the summer of \u201984, and the Olympics were on\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014and gymnastics were on, and she didn\u2019t want to watch gymnastics\u2014because she always delighted in watching these gymnasts perform. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI remember one night, being out in the backyard in our house in Phoenix. I was just kicking dirt and kind of looking up at the stars and just talking to God. I\/this thought hit my mind: \u201cI understand how people get to a point, where they go, \u2018I don\u2019t want to be in this anymore.\u2019\u201d I was saying, \u201cI\u2019m not going to go there because, biblically, I can\u2019t; I belong to Christ.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis was not the life I wanted for me. I\u2019m thinking about that because one of the chapters\/one of the defining moments you talk about in your book is when suffering visits a marriage. That can be physical suffering; it can be loss or grief that comes through illness or through the death of a loved one; or\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014or a bad decision by your husband. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Something like that. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> He buys a house he should have never bought. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And you don\u2019t know you\u2019re in a defining moment\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014when you\u2019re in it. You\u2019re just kind of miserable or in angst. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Well, Dave, I\u2019m looking at your first defining moment. I would have <em>never<\/em> known that when Ann yelled at me, six months after we were married, \u201cMarrying you was the worst decision of my life,\u201d we were in a defining moment number one. I didn\u2019t realize it in that moment; I\u2019m just like: \u201cYes; you\u2019re right. What were we thinking?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut defining moment number one is when you discover brokenness is broader than sin. I didn\u2019t know that at that moment, but we were dealing with that brokenness that we previously talked about. But let me ask you this: \u201cWhen a couple hits that defining moment, how do they get through it?\u201d\u2014from your perspective. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave H.:<\/strong> It is, as Ann said, you\u2019re often not aware you are in it; so you feel like you\u2019re treading water. You don\u2019t have clear categories; you\u2019re not diagnosing yourself, or your heart, or often able to help your spouse. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think it can be really helpful at moments like that to be able to reach out beyond yourselves\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave H.:<\/strong> \u2014to be able to get in trusted people: involve the pastor of your church. One of the reasons why God has created the church is so that we can reach out and lean on them in times where we need perspective\/we need something from outside of ourselves. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Talk about when a marriage is in a season of suffering. You and Kim have been through seasons like this, right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave H.:<\/strong> We have, yes. I think what intrigued me about the topic was that I\u2019ve read so much rich material on the topic of suffering, but I had not encountered a lot of material on what to do when your spouse is suffering. That\u2019s the defining moment\u2014is when your spouse suffers, and how to position yourself in a way that\u2019s really going to be caring for them\/loving them. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think recognizing the reality of what\u2019s happening; because you stay married long enough, and one of you is going to suffer. You stay married long enough, and one of you is going to die first; you know? Previous to death, there is oftentimes suffering that attends that. How we respond when our spouse suffers just says a lot about our understanding of marriage, our assumptions about life, our awareness of how God moves in a fallen world. There are a lot of things that map onto that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019ve got a good friend, right now, Lee and his wife Rhonda; and Lee has contracted ALS. He was a member of the church, where I was pastoring; and he\u2019s just become a dear friend. We were with Lee, you know, when he was hiking with his wife; and over the past two years, we\u2019ve watched him as he has slowed down, and then began to limp, and then he was on crutches, and then on a walker, and now in a wheelchair. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe knows he\u2019s readily declining. We\u2019re watching Lee\u2019s courage as he faces his suffering and the inevitable end of his suffering. We\u2019re seeing this God-centeredness\/this desire to ensure that his children are interpreting this experience in a way that has God\u2019s goodness in the picture. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen, we\u2019re watching this remarkable wife, who is caring for her husband in a way that is considering both body and soul. So often, it\u2019s just reduced down to fretting and becoming preoccupied with all the medical features of whatever is going on; but how they are praying together, and how they\u2019re really looking to take this season as a way to continue to encounter God together, and to finish well together. I mean, it just inspires me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> But wait, Bob; what happened? I\u2019m kind of sitting on the edge of my seat with you and Mary Ann, because she was suffering. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> She was. Honestly, I didn\u2019t know, \u201cWhat was my right response in the midst of her suffering?\u201d Like I said, I would try to cheer her up; but I didn\u2019t know: \u201cDo I back off and give her space and let her process this herself?\u201d \u201cDo I try to be there?\u201d \u201cDo I get other people involved?\u201d I was kind of running through what my options were, and none of them seemed to be working to help her in this situation. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>Dave, I think that is one of the issues that we face when a spouse is suffering. It affects us; it affects our own mood, because to see a loved one suffer is emotionally difficult for us. It adjusts our life. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou talk about Rhonda. She\u2019s had to make significant life adjustments; and now, all of a sudden, life can\u2019t go on the way it was going on before. She has her own fears she\u2019s facing in the midst of this; and she\u2019s trying to be a loving, godly wife to her husband, who is suffering, maybe at a more profound level; I don\u2019t know if I\u2019d even say that. I mean, he\u2019s suffering in a profound way too. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis is a season in a marriage where often we find ourselves\u2014like I was in the backyard\u2014we don\u2019t know where to turn. We\u2019re just crying out to God and saying: \u201cGod, I don\u2019t know what to do. If You don\u2019t show up, I don\u2019t have the strength left to sustain myself during this season.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave H.:<\/strong> Yes; because you begin to experience the kind of suffering that just can\u2019t readily be fixed; and is going to, perhaps, play out of her time; or is not easily defined or diagnosed: \u201cWhat\u2019s going on?\u201d\u2014\u201cI don\u2019t know; why do I feel this way?\u201d Or maybe, it is diagnosed, but it can be fixed. I mean, that impulse\/that human impulse to want to <em>fix<\/em> your spouse\u2019s suffering; because you <em>love<\/em> them, or because you are frightened at what is happening to them.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And you also see how it\u2019s affecting your children, so then you\u2019re even in more turmoil of wanting to fix it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave H.:<\/strong> Yes, that\u2019s right; you want peace. You want things to return to the way they were. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSuffering is remarkably disruptive to a marriage; and a lot of times, we don\u2019t get that. We don\u2019t see that God doesn\u2019t just kind of allow this as if He doesn\u2019t control this; but there this a loving God that introduces these things, because He wants to do a work that can only be achieved in this manner. Those turn out to be beautiful things, regardless of the outcome; those become beautiful things to the soul and prepare us for eternity. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So, if you are sitting with a husband or a wife today, and they would say, \u201cMy spouse is in a season of suffering, and I want to be a good husband\/be a good wife; I don\u2019t know whether to back off or to move in; I don\u2019t know what to do,\u201d what is your counsel to somebody in that situation? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave H.:<\/strong> Well, I\u2019d say: \u201cAre you listening to them? Are you asking questions about where they are and listening carefully to how they respond?\u201d I think it\u2019s so easy to kind of import our fears into the person that is suffering; or how we would deal with it, and begin to relate to them out of that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe really have to allow the reality of where <em>they are<\/em> to be defined by them, listen carefully, and then begin to care in response to that. The listening thing is <em>huge<\/em> because it really does create an environment, where a suffering spouse is able to say, \u201cOkay; I know that we don\u2019t understand exactly what\u2019s going on; but he gets me\/she gets me. She understands where this is.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, this is big; because I\u2019m recalling, a few months ago, when I had just come home from visiting my parents. When I come home, there is a part of me that is grieving; I\u2019m sad about an era that is gone. I come home with Dave, and we\u2019ve got an event to speak at that night. I told Dave, like: \u201cMy heart just hurts. I\u2019m sitting here; I can\u2019t even think about this.\u201d Do you remember? [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019m not making a comment, because this spouse didn\u2019t suffer well with his wife. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You didn\u2019t do well here; huh?\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I didn\u2019t do well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014kind of like me buying a house without my wife seeing it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Oh, yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> He said: \u201cWe have an <em>event<\/em> tonight. You need to get it together,\u201d\u2014those were the words. [Laughter] That did not fly very well with me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> No. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You know, the listening part: I\u2019m thinking of when Job\u2019s friends ministered to him most; it\u2019s when they kept their mouth shut. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave H:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And when things start to go south with Job and his friends is when they start offering advice. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave H.:<\/strong> And Job\u2019s wife\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Exactly. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave H.:<\/strong> \u2014who is totally cynical. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; \u201cCurse God and die.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMy M-O [method of operating] in our situation was: \u201cWell, I just\/I want to fix it\u201d; so I was trying to marshal all of my energy to get Mary Ann fixed. I wasn\u2019t listening; I was just trying to kind of: \u201cSnap out of it,\u201d\u2014you know?\u2014\u201cLet\u2019s get on with life. This is inconvenient for me.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe other mistake, I think, we often make in the midst of suffering is to separate\/to isolate and to step out of oneness; and in that isolation, we start\/our hearts start to grow cold and apart from one another. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014distant. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I think your point about presence and listening\u2014Dave, I think these are huge. When your spouse is going through that time, you need to say: \u201cI\u2019m here. I\u2019m not going anywhere, and I want to hear what\u2019s going on in your heart and soul.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou asked me what happened. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Ultimately, time happened; ultimately, there wasn\u2019t a breakthrough moment. There wasn\u2019t a thing, where I said this, and everything got fixed; or where this circumstance shifted, and that fixed everything. Ultimately, the fog lifted; she kind of woke back up and came out of the grief that she was in, from all the disruption in her life, and started to come back around. It was gradual and happened over time.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut again, presence and listening are how you get through that season. We had conversations later about, \u201cAre there things I could have done that would have been more helpful?\u201d She said: \u201cNo. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> She needed time. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u201cI just needed the time to grieve, and to go through and to do the processing I was going through, and then to get out of the pity party that I was in, and recognize: \u2018God is in control; His providential care is at work here, and I need to be responding to Him.\u2019\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSometimes, you know, my season of that was, maybe, a month or two. Some couples go through seasons of suffering that last for <em>years<\/em>. That\u2019s hard on a marriage when that happens. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave H.:<\/strong> One of the things I admire about some of the people that I\u2019ve seen suffer is that they refuse to allow the suffering to define the totality of their relationship, or they refuse to allow it to define who they are going to be in the community. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI tell a story in the book of a guy, whose wife had a chronic kidney problem\u2014a guy named Scott; his wife is Jeannie\u2014Jeannie had a chronic kidney problem. They are from Canada; they are flying through the United States, back from an event. As they are landing in Denver, at their connecting flight to get back to Canada, she ends up collapsing on the flight. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThey arrive in Denver; and the doctors say: \u201cListen, you can\u2019t leave. You have to stay. She can\u2019t fly for a <em>long<\/em> time.\u201d They basically have to live in Denver. They are not from Canada, but they are living in Canada; they have a mortgage up in Canada. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThey just find a place [in Denver]. They live there; and after a few months, there are people there that know them\u2014they say, \u201cHey\u201d\u2014he\u2019s a pastor\u2014\u201cwhy don\u2019t you start a Bible study?\u201d He starts a Bible study; the Bible study grows. She\u2019s at home, praying as she is suffering; but she is praying. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tEventually, they ask him: \u201cHey, it seems like there are a lot of people coming to this. Maybe, we should start a church.\u201d [Laughter] So he starts a church; and then three months later, they are given a building. A year after that whole experience, he and his wife are eventually\u2014she is stabilized enough that they can fly back to Canada. There is a church, a building, and a lead pastor that is in existence to this day. My point being is that Scott and Jeannie realized that, because of her suffering, there was some <em>good<\/em> that was able to come out of it. They are able to celebrate that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, we don\u2019t always see that in real time; you know? You don\u2019t always have that story to point back to; but they understand that this is why God had parked them in Denver\u2014to plant a church in a layover city. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> It\u2019s almost as if God took their eyes off of themselves and their circumstances, and they lifted their eyes to God and said: \u201cGod, what do You have for us? What do You want to do? What do You want right now?\u201d That\u2019s <em>hard<\/em> to do when you\u2019re in the midst of it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave H.:<\/strong> Oh, it is. If that was me in Denver, I\u2019m like: \u201cI\u2019m tucking in. I\u2019m with Kim; I don\u2019t want to see anybody.\u201d [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, and think\u2014we\u2019ve talked about Job\u2019s wife\u2019s response to the suffering that they were going through\u2014which was cynical, \u201cCurse God and die,\u201d\u2014and what\u2019s Job\u2019s response? That\u2019s the model response for us in the seasons of suffering, whether it\u2019s us or our spouse. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I will say this about my husband, Dave. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Oh boy! Here we go. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> We had that conversation, where he was like, \u201cYou need to get yourself together, because we have an event.\u201d Well, I kind of left the room\u2014like, \u201cOkay; I\u2019m out of here,\u201d\u2014but he came back in\/he came to me and he said: \u201cI am so sorry. That\u2019s got to be really hard.\u201d He just kind of hugged me\/held me. He said, \u201cThis event isn\u2019t nearly as important as <em>that<\/em>.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s so funny; just those few words just <em>melted<\/em> my heart. It\u2019s exactly what I needed; which then, I was like, \u201cAlright; I\u2019m ready to go\u201d; but I needed to talk about it. I needed <em>him<\/em> to be compassionate. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSometimes, just listening and holding\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave H.:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014that means a lot. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave H.:<\/strong> It\u2019s Christ-like. He\/it\u2019s where He sympathizes with us in our weakness; and there is something beautiful, where we encounter God in moments like that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I don\u2019t know if he <em>felt<\/em> it. He might have faked it, but it still felt really good. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You know I\u2019m sitting right here! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; I know. [Laughter] You did <em>feel<\/em> it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I mean, it was one of those\u2014and I would say to every husband or wife right now: \u201cIf your spouse is suffering, go in the other room. Quiet yourself and say, God, what do You want me to do?\u2019\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> That\u2019s what I did; and it was like God was saying: \u201cI\u2019ve been there for You every time. You need to be there for her. She\u2019s going through something hard right now. This event is just an <em>event<\/em>. This is your wife; love her.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave H.:<\/strong> You don\u2019t always <em>feel<\/em> it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> No. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave H.:<\/strong> Sometimes, you\u2019re just\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave H.:<\/strong> \u2014obeying. You\u2019re doing what Scripture says\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave H.:<\/strong> \u2014you should do, because God will honor that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, I hope\u2014if couples are in one of these defining moments of a season of suffering\u2014that listening; and having compassion and empathy; and being able to say: \u201cI\u2019m here,\u201d and \u201cI care,\u201d and \u201cI know this is hard,\u201d\u2014I hope this can become a part of the regular rhythm of their marriage during this season, because God will meet them in the middle of that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou cover this beautifully in your book, Dave. In fact, I\u2019m thinking couples, who are in this season right now, would really benefit from getting a copy of your new book, <em>I Still Do<\/em>, which is a book we\u2019ve got in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center; or if you know couples, who are going through a difficult season, get them a copy of Dave Harvey\u2019s book and give it to them as a gift. The book is called <em>I Still Do: Growing Closer and Stronger Through Life\u2019s Defining Moments<\/em>. It\u2019s written by Dave Harvey. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou can order it from us, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can call to order: 1-800-FL-TODAY is the number. Again, our website is FamilyLifeToday.com. The number to call, if you\u2019d like to order the book from us, is 1-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know the subject hits home for a lot of us, especially in this season, when there has been increased fear and anxiety. I think all of us were a little bit blindsided by the coronavirus when it appeared back a few months ago. I don\u2019t think any of us imagined that there would be people losing jobs; or friends, who are infected by this virus, that it would be life-threatening for some. This has been a season of national suffering. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou need to know that we\u2019ve had people reaching out to us more during this season, looking for resources for help\/for hope for their marriage and their family\u2014people going online, accessing articles and podcasts that are available, people tuning into this program\u2014this is a season when all of us have been coming back to what matters most: our relationship with God, our relationships with one another in our marriage and our family, and how we love our neighbors well. That\u2019s what our focus has been, here at <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank those of you who have been able to continue your ongoing support of this ministry during these challenging times. In fact, I know some of you have been more generous during this season, recognizing that there are others who <em>can\u2019t<\/em> help right now; you have increased your giving. We\u2019re so <em>grateful<\/em> for that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis is a challenging time for all of us; including for us, here at <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Please continue to pray for us; and as you\u2019re able to help, please be as generous as you can possibly be. You can donate to support the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> by going online to FamilyLifeToday.com, or you can donate by calling 1-800-FL-TODAY. If you can\u2019t donate today, would you please pray for us?\u2014and just pray that God would sustain us during this difficult season. We appreciate your prayers and, of course, appreciate your financial support as well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we hope you can join us again tomorrow. We\u2019re going to talk about how important it is to have a vision for your marriage for that season when the kids are gone. We need to be investing <em>now<\/em> in our marriage so that, in that season, our marriage can flourish. Dave Harvey will be with us to talk about that tomorrow. I hope you can be with us as well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back tomorrow for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2020 FamilyLife. All rights reserved.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/\">www.FamilyLife.com<\/a>\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t\t1\n\t\t\t\t<\/p>"],"_seopress_titles_title":[""],"_seopress_titles_desc":[""],"_seopress_robots_index":[""],"duration":["00:26:57"],"show_notes":[""],"_thumbnail_id":["294104"],"filesize":["24.68M"],"filesize_raw":["25881474"],"_uag_css_file_name":["uag-css-305941.css"],"_uag_js_file_name":["uag-js-305941.js"],"_uag_page_assets":["a:9:{s:3:\"css\";s:82560:\".wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-top svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-top .uagb-container__shape-fill{fill: rgba(51,51,51,1);}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape-bottom svg{width: calc( 100% + 1.3px );}.wp-block-uagb-container.uagb-block-e11dbe9f .uagb-container__shape.uagb-container__shape-bottom 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your spouse is in a season of suffering, how do you help them? Dave Harvey reminds us that how we respond to suffering says a lot about our understanding of marriage.","meta_box":{"show_notes":"","transcript_url":"https:\/\/transcript.familylife.com\/fl2020-04-21.pdf","transcript_content":"<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> One of Jesus\u2019 promises to us is that in this world we will have trials\/tribulation. Dave Harvey says that\u2019s true for our marriage as well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave H.:<\/strong> Suffering is remarkably disruptive to a marriage; and a lot of times, we don\u2019t get that. We don\u2019t see that God doesn\u2019t just kind of allow this as if He doesn\u2019t control this, but there is a loving God that introduces these things because He wants to do a work that can only be achieved in this manner. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> This is <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> for Tuesday, April 21<sup>st<\/sup>. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson; I\u2019m Bob Lepine. You\u2019ll find us online at FamilyLifeToday.com. Have you stopped to think about how seasons of difficulty\/seasons of suffering have impacted your relationship as a couple in marriage? We\u2019ll explore that today with our guest, Dave Harvey. Stay with us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd welcome to <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Thanks for joining us. I have to tell you guys\u2014when I picked up a copy of Dave Harvey\u2019s new book called <em>I Still Do<\/em>\u2014and I saw the subtitle, which is <em>Growing Closer and Stronger Through Life\u2019s Defining Moments<\/em>\u2014I thought of you, because we\u2019ve all had defining moments; your book, <em>Vertical Marriage<\/em>, is about a lot of those defining moments in your marriage. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think all of us can look back and go, \u201cThere have been landmark moments in our lives\/in our marriage that have reshaped us and made us think differently about who we are and about how we interact with one another.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> And often, those moments are hard. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> They are not the\u2014I mean, they can be mountaintop moments; but they are often very difficult. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know, Bob, you\u2019ve heard us say: \u201cWhen that moment, on our ten-year anniversary, when Ann said, \u2018I\u2019ve lost my feelings for you,\u2019\u2014and we started to walk into that\u2014I remember consciously thinking, \u2018No one will ever hear this story. [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u201c\u2019This is going to be a private, little\u2014hopefully, we get through it\u2014moment in our life that we will just keep to ourselves\u2019\u201d; and yet, God shows up. It\u2019s like there are <em>a lot<\/em> of people, who have this moment, and they need to see where God can meet them and take them through it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And those moments are like forks in a path\u2014like, \u201cWhich way will you go?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And we\u2019re all faced with those, and it\u2019s not easy. We do remember those defining moments because they change us. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I\u2019ve said to people\u2014for years, I\u2019ve said: \u201cLook back at your life and ask yourself this question: \u2018Times of accelerated spiritual growth: have they been times when everything was going really well, and when God was blessing you, and there was abundance?\u2014or have they been times when you have been in the valley, when you\u2019ve been fighting. when there have been hard times?\u201d Everybody says, \u201cMy growth is accelerated [in hard times].\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>So, if your goal is\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014to be more like Jesus, you\u2019re going to have to walk through hard times that are the sanding device that God uses to rub off the rough edges. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDave Harvey is joining us again on <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Dave, welcome back. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave H.:<\/strong> It\u2019s great to be back, Bob. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Dave is an author; he is a speaker. He is a pastor for more than 30 years. He wrote a book, a decade ago, called <em>When Sinners Say \u201cI Do\u201d<\/em> and wound up involved in our <em>Art of Marriage<\/em><sup>\u00ae<\/sup> video series which, if our listeners have been through that series, they\u2019ve benefitted from Dave\u2019s contribution and his wisdom to that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tDave has written a new book on marriage called <em>I Still Do<\/em>, and it\u2019s all about defining moments. You\u2019ve identified some of those paradigm moments that most of us go through in marriage and talked about: the beginning part of our marriage and some of the common moments couples go through, the heart of the marriage relationship when we learn to stick together and become one, and then how we end well together. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave H.:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Were you aware of defining moments in your own marriage? Was that what led you to kind of unpack some of this? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave H.:<\/strong> In part, yes. The book is built around 11 specific defining moments. I would say that many of them were defining moments that Kim and I experienced; and then others, just in looking over people that we\u2019ve had the privilege of counseling with or gotten to know over time. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I\u2019ve shared before that one of the defining moments in our marriage\u2014at least, for me\u2014was when we had moved. This was early in our marriage; we had moved from the city that Mary Ann had grown up in\/where her family was. We were now living in Phoenix, Arizona. I was there with a new job; she was pregnant with our second child. We had just moved into a house that she had not seen before I purchased it\u2014which by the way\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Whoa! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014uh-huh, yes; talk about a rookie mistake. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tShe was depressed. I would come home at the end of the day, and I\u2019d do everything I could to turn on my sparkle magic and try to bring joy and happiness into the household. Here is how I <em>knew<\/em> how bad it was. It was the summer of \u201984, and the Olympics were on\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014and gymnastics were on, and she didn\u2019t want to watch gymnastics\u2014because she always delighted in watching these gymnasts perform. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI remember one night, being out in the backyard in our house in Phoenix. I was just kicking dirt and kind of looking up at the stars and just talking to God. I\/this thought hit my mind: \u201cI understand how people get to a point, where they go, \u2018I don\u2019t want to be in this anymore.\u2019\u201d I was saying, \u201cI\u2019m not going to go there because, biblically, I can\u2019t; I belong to Christ.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis was not the life I wanted for me. I\u2019m thinking about that because one of the chapters\/one of the defining moments you talk about in your book is when suffering visits a marriage. That can be physical suffering; it can be loss or grief that comes through illness or through the death of a loved one; or\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> \u2014or a bad decision by your husband. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Something like that. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> He buys a house he should have never bought. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And you don\u2019t know you\u2019re in a defining moment\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014when you\u2019re in it. You\u2019re just kind of miserable or in angst. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Well, Dave, I\u2019m looking at your first defining moment. I would have <em>never<\/em> known that when Ann yelled at me, six months after we were married, \u201cMarrying you was the worst decision of my life,\u201d we were in a defining moment number one. I didn\u2019t realize it in that moment; I\u2019m just like: \u201cYes; you\u2019re right. What were we thinking?\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut defining moment number one is when you discover brokenness is broader than sin. I didn\u2019t know that at that moment, but we were dealing with that brokenness that we previously talked about. But let me ask you this: \u201cWhen a couple hits that defining moment, how do they get through it?\u201d\u2014from your perspective. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave H.:<\/strong> It is, as Ann said, you\u2019re often not aware you are in it; so you feel like you\u2019re treading water. You don\u2019t have clear categories; you\u2019re not diagnosing yourself, or your heart, or often able to help your spouse. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think it can be really helpful at moments like that to be able to reach out beyond yourselves\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave H.:<\/strong> \u2014to be able to get in trusted people: involve the pastor of your church. One of the reasons why God has created the church is so that we can reach out and lean on them in times where we need perspective\/we need something from outside of ourselves. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Talk about when a marriage is in a season of suffering. You and Kim have been through seasons like this, right? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave H.:<\/strong> We have, yes. I think what intrigued me about the topic was that I\u2019ve read so much rich material on the topic of suffering, but I had not encountered a lot of material on what to do when your spouse is suffering. That\u2019s the defining moment\u2014is when your spouse suffers, and how to position yourself in a way that\u2019s really going to be caring for them\/loving them. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI think recognizing the reality of what\u2019s happening; because you stay married long enough, and one of you is going to suffer. You stay married long enough, and one of you is going to die first; you know? Previous to death, there is oftentimes suffering that attends that. How we respond when our spouse suffers just says a lot about our understanding of marriage, our assumptions about life, our awareness of how God moves in a fallen world. There are a lot of things that map onto that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI\u2019ve got a good friend, right now, Lee and his wife Rhonda; and Lee has contracted ALS. He was a member of the church, where I was pastoring; and he\u2019s just become a dear friend. We were with Lee, you know, when he was hiking with his wife; and over the past two years, we\u2019ve watched him as he has slowed down, and then began to limp, and then he was on crutches, and then on a walker, and now in a wheelchair. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tHe knows he\u2019s readily declining. We\u2019re watching Lee\u2019s courage as he faces his suffering and the inevitable end of his suffering. We\u2019re seeing this God-centeredness\/this desire to ensure that his children are interpreting this experience in a way that has God\u2019s goodness in the picture. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThen, we\u2019re watching this remarkable wife, who is caring for her husband in a way that is considering both body and soul. So often, it\u2019s just reduced down to fretting and becoming preoccupied with all the medical features of whatever is going on; but how they are praying together, and how they\u2019re really looking to take this season as a way to continue to encounter God together, and to finish well together. I mean, it just inspires me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> But wait, Bob; what happened? I\u2019m kind of sitting on the edge of my seat with you and Mary Ann, because she was suffering. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> She was. Honestly, I didn\u2019t know, \u201cWhat was my right response in the midst of her suffering?\u201d Like I said, I would try to cheer her up; but I didn\u2019t know: \u201cDo I back off and give her space and let her process this herself?\u201d \u201cDo I try to be there?\u201d \u201cDo I get other people involved?\u201d I was kind of running through what my options were, and none of them seemed to be working to help her in this situation. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<br>Dave, I think that is one of the issues that we face when a spouse is suffering. It affects us; it affects our own mood, because to see a loved one suffer is emotionally difficult for us. It adjusts our life. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou talk about Rhonda. She\u2019s had to make significant life adjustments; and now, all of a sudden, life can\u2019t go on the way it was going on before. She has her own fears she\u2019s facing in the midst of this; and she\u2019s trying to be a loving, godly wife to her husband, who is suffering, maybe at a more profound level; I don\u2019t know if I\u2019d even say that. I mean, he\u2019s suffering in a profound way too. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis is a season in a marriage where often we find ourselves\u2014like I was in the backyard\u2014we don\u2019t know where to turn. We\u2019re just crying out to God and saying: \u201cGod, I don\u2019t know what to do. If You don\u2019t show up, I don\u2019t have the strength left to sustain myself during this season.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave H.:<\/strong> Yes; because you begin to experience the kind of suffering that just can\u2019t readily be fixed; and is going to, perhaps, play out of her time; or is not easily defined or diagnosed: \u201cWhat\u2019s going on?\u201d\u2014\u201cI don\u2019t know; why do I feel this way?\u201d Or maybe, it is diagnosed, but it can be fixed. I mean, that impulse\/that human impulse to want to <em>fix<\/em> your spouse\u2019s suffering; because you <em>love<\/em> them, or because you are frightened at what is happening to them.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> And you also see how it\u2019s affecting your children, so then you\u2019re even in more turmoil of wanting to fix it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave H.:<\/strong> Yes, that\u2019s right; you want peace. You want things to return to the way they were. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSuffering is remarkably disruptive to a marriage; and a lot of times, we don\u2019t get that. We don\u2019t see that God doesn\u2019t just kind of allow this as if He doesn\u2019t control this; but there this a loving God that introduces these things, because He wants to do a work that can only be achieved in this manner. Those turn out to be beautiful things, regardless of the outcome; those become beautiful things to the soul and prepare us for eternity. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> So, if you are sitting with a husband or a wife today, and they would say, \u201cMy spouse is in a season of suffering, and I want to be a good husband\/be a good wife; I don\u2019t know whether to back off or to move in; I don\u2019t know what to do,\u201d what is your counsel to somebody in that situation? \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave H.:<\/strong> Well, I\u2019d say: \u201cAre you listening to them? Are you asking questions about where they are and listening carefully to how they respond?\u201d I think it\u2019s so easy to kind of import our fears into the person that is suffering; or how we would deal with it, and begin to relate to them out of that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe really have to allow the reality of where <em>they are<\/em> to be defined by them, listen carefully, and then begin to care in response to that. The listening thing is <em>huge<\/em> because it really does create an environment, where a suffering spouse is able to say, \u201cOkay; I know that we don\u2019t understand exactly what\u2019s going on; but he gets me\/she gets me. She understands where this is.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh, this is big; because I\u2019m recalling, a few months ago, when I had just come home from visiting my parents. When I come home, there is a part of me that is grieving; I\u2019m sad about an era that is gone. I come home with Dave, and we\u2019ve got an event to speak at that night. I told Dave, like: \u201cMy heart just hurts. I\u2019m sitting here; I can\u2019t even think about this.\u201d Do you remember? [Laughter] \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I\u2019m not making a comment, because this spouse didn\u2019t suffer well with his wife. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You didn\u2019t do well here; huh?\u2014 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I didn\u2019t do well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u2014kind of like me buying a house without my wife seeing it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Oh, yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> He said: \u201cWe have an <em>event<\/em> tonight. You need to get it together,\u201d\u2014those were the words. [Laughter] That did not fly very well with me. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> No. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> You know, the listening part: I\u2019m thinking of when Job\u2019s friends ministered to him most; it\u2019s when they kept their mouth shut. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave H:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> And when things start to go south with Job and his friends is when they start offering advice. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave H.:<\/strong> And Job\u2019s wife\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Oh! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Exactly. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave H.:<\/strong> \u2014who is totally cynical. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes; \u201cCurse God and die.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tMy M-O [method of operating] in our situation was: \u201cWell, I just\/I want to fix it\u201d; so I was trying to marshal all of my energy to get Mary Ann fixed. I wasn\u2019t listening; I was just trying to kind of: \u201cSnap out of it,\u201d\u2014you know?\u2014\u201cLet\u2019s get on with life. This is inconvenient for me.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThe other mistake, I think, we often make in the midst of suffering is to separate\/to isolate and to step out of oneness; and in that isolation, we start\/our hearts start to grow cold and apart from one another. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014distant. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> I think your point about presence and listening\u2014Dave, I think these are huge. When your spouse is going through that time, you need to say: \u201cI\u2019m here. I\u2019m not going anywhere, and I want to hear what\u2019s going on in your heart and soul.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou asked me what happened. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Ultimately, time happened; ultimately, there wasn\u2019t a breakthrough moment. There wasn\u2019t a thing, where I said this, and everything got fixed; or where this circumstance shifted, and that fixed everything. Ultimately, the fog lifted; she kind of woke back up and came out of the grief that she was in, from all the disruption in her life, and started to come back around. It was gradual and happened over time.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tBut again, presence and listening are how you get through that season. We had conversations later about, \u201cAre there things I could have done that would have been more helpful?\u201d She said: \u201cNo. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> She needed time. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> \u201cI just needed the time to grieve, and to go through and to do the processing I was going through, and then to get out of the pity party that I was in, and recognize: \u2018God is in control; His providential care is at work here, and I need to be responding to Him.\u2019\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSometimes, you know, my season of that was, maybe, a month or two. Some couples go through seasons of suffering that last for <em>years<\/em>. That\u2019s hard on a marriage when that happens. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave H.:<\/strong> One of the things I admire about some of the people that I\u2019ve seen suffer is that they refuse to allow the suffering to define the totality of their relationship, or they refuse to allow it to define who they are going to be in the community. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI tell a story in the book of a guy, whose wife had a chronic kidney problem\u2014a guy named Scott; his wife is Jeannie\u2014Jeannie had a chronic kidney problem. They are from Canada; they are flying through the United States, back from an event. As they are landing in Denver, at their connecting flight to get back to Canada, she ends up collapsing on the flight. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThey arrive in Denver; and the doctors say: \u201cListen, you can\u2019t leave. You have to stay. She can\u2019t fly for a <em>long<\/em> time.\u201d They basically have to live in Denver. They are not from Canada, but they are living in Canada; they have a mortgage up in Canada. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThey just find a place [in Denver]. They live there; and after a few months, there are people there that know them\u2014they say, \u201cHey\u201d\u2014he\u2019s a pastor\u2014\u201cwhy don\u2019t you start a Bible study?\u201d He starts a Bible study; the Bible study grows. She\u2019s at home, praying as she is suffering; but she is praying. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tEventually, they ask him: \u201cHey, it seems like there are a lot of people coming to this. Maybe, we should start a church.\u201d [Laughter] So he starts a church; and then three months later, they are given a building. A year after that whole experience, he and his wife are eventually\u2014she is stabilized enough that they can fly back to Canada. There is a church, a building, and a lead pastor that is in existence to this day. My point being is that Scott and Jeannie realized that, because of her suffering, there was some <em>good<\/em> that was able to come out of it. They are able to celebrate that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tNow, we don\u2019t always see that in real time; you know? You don\u2019t always have that story to point back to; but they understand that this is why God had parked them in Denver\u2014to plant a church in a layover city. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> It\u2019s almost as if God took their eyes off of themselves and their circumstances, and they lifted their eyes to God and said: \u201cGod, what do You have for us? What do You want to do? What do You want right now?\u201d That\u2019s <em>hard<\/em> to do when you\u2019re in the midst of it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave H.:<\/strong> Oh, it is. If that was me in Denver, I\u2019m like: \u201cI\u2019m tucking in. I\u2019m with Kim; I don\u2019t want to see anybody.\u201d [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, and think\u2014we\u2019ve talked about Job\u2019s wife\u2019s response to the suffering that they were going through\u2014which was cynical, \u201cCurse God and die,\u201d\u2014and what\u2019s Job\u2019s response? That\u2019s the model response for us in the seasons of suffering, whether it\u2019s us or our spouse. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I will say this about my husband, Dave. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Oh boy! Here we go. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> We had that conversation, where he was like, \u201cYou need to get yourself together, because we have an event.\u201d Well, I kind of left the room\u2014like, \u201cOkay; I\u2019m out of here,\u201d\u2014but he came back in\/he came to me and he said: \u201cI am so sorry. That\u2019s got to be really hard.\u201d He just kind of hugged me\/held me. He said, \u201cThis event isn\u2019t nearly as important as <em>that<\/em>.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tIt\u2019s so funny; just those few words just <em>melted<\/em> my heart. It\u2019s exactly what I needed; which then, I was like, \u201cAlright; I\u2019m ready to go\u201d; but I needed to talk about it. I needed <em>him<\/em> to be compassionate. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tSometimes, just listening and holding\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave H.:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> \u2014that means a lot. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave H.:<\/strong> It\u2019s Christ-like. He\/it\u2019s where He sympathizes with us in our weakness; and there is something beautiful, where we encounter God in moments like that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> I don\u2019t know if he <em>felt<\/em> it. He might have faked it, but it still felt really good. [Laughter]\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> You know I\u2019m sitting right here! \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes; I know. [Laughter] You did <em>feel<\/em> it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> I mean, it was one of those\u2014and I would say to every husband or wife right now: \u201cIf your spouse is suffering, go in the other room. Quiet yourself and say, God, what do You want me to do?\u2019\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> That\u2019s what I did; and it was like God was saying: \u201cI\u2019ve been there for You every time. You need to be there for her. She\u2019s going through something hard right now. This event is just an <em>event<\/em>. This is your wife; love her.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave H.:<\/strong> You don\u2019t always <em>feel<\/em> it. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Yes. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> No. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave H.:<\/strong> Sometimes, you\u2019re just\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Ann:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave H.:<\/strong> \u2014obeying. You\u2019re doing what Scripture says\u2014\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave:<\/strong> Right. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Dave H.:<\/strong> \u2014you should do, because God will honor that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>Bob:<\/strong> Well, I hope\u2014if couples are in one of these defining moments of a season of suffering\u2014that listening; and having compassion and empathy; and being able to say: \u201cI\u2019m here,\u201d and \u201cI care,\u201d and \u201cI know this is hard,\u201d\u2014I hope this can become a part of the regular rhythm of their marriage during this season, because God will meet them in the middle of that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou cover this beautifully in your book, Dave. In fact, I\u2019m thinking couples, who are in this season right now, would really benefit from getting a copy of your new book, <em>I Still Do<\/em>, which is a book we\u2019ve got in our <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> Resource Center; or if you know couples, who are going through a difficult season, get them a copy of Dave Harvey\u2019s book and give it to them as a gift. The book is called <em>I Still Do: Growing Closer and Stronger Through Life\u2019s Defining Moments<\/em>. It\u2019s written by Dave Harvey. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou can order it from us, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can call to order: 1-800-FL-TODAY is the number. Again, our website is FamilyLifeToday.com. The number to call, if you\u2019d like to order the book from us, is 1-800-358-6329\u2014that\u2019s 1-800-\u201cF\u201d as in family, \u201cL\u201d as in life, and then the word, \u201cTODAY.\u201d \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou know the subject hits home for a lot of us, especially in this season, when there has been increased fear and anxiety. I think all of us were a little bit blindsided by the coronavirus when it appeared back a few months ago. I don\u2019t think any of us imagined that there would be people losing jobs; or friends, who are infected by this virus, that it would be life-threatening for some. This has been a season of national suffering. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tYou need to know that we\u2019ve had people reaching out to us more during this season, looking for resources for help\/for hope for their marriage and their family\u2014people going online, accessing articles and podcasts that are available, people tuning into this program\u2014this is a season when all of us have been coming back to what matters most: our relationship with God, our relationships with one another in our marriage and our family, and how we love our neighbors well. That\u2019s what our focus has been, here at <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank those of you who have been able to continue your ongoing support of this ministry during these challenging times. In fact, I know some of you have been more generous during this season, recognizing that there are others who <em>can\u2019t<\/em> help right now; you have increased your giving. We\u2019re so <em>grateful<\/em> for that. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tThis is a challenging time for all of us; including for us, here at <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. Please continue to pray for us; and as you\u2019re able to help, please be as generous as you can possibly be. You can donate to support the ministry of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> by going online to FamilyLifeToday.com, or you can donate by calling 1-800-FL-TODAY. If you can\u2019t donate today, would you please pray for us?\u2014and just pray that God would sustain us during this difficult season. We appreciate your prayers and, of course, appreciate your financial support as well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tAnd we hope you can join us again tomorrow. We\u2019re going to talk about how important it is to have a vision for your marriage for that season when the kids are gone. We need to be investing <em>now<\/em> in our marriage so that, in that season, our marriage can flourish. Dave Harvey will be with us to talk about that tomorrow. I hope you can be with us as well. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tI want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I\u2019m Bob Lepine. We will see you back tomorrow for another edition of <em>FamilyLife Today<\/em>. \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<em>FamilyLife Today<\/em> is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru<sup>\u00ae <\/sup>Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\t<strong>\u00a0<\/strong>\n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tWe are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you\u2019ve benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider <a href=\"http:\/\/wp-stage.familylife.com\/www\/donate\">donating today<\/a> to help defray the costs?\u00a0 \n\t\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p>\n\t\t\t\tCopyright <sup>\u00a9<\/sup> 2020 FamilyLife. 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